They just need to make attackers deal more damage outside of stun window. 🙄 Hoping Evelyn is like that, I trust that Lighter's short field time and buffs being active outside of stun is a sign for that. I used to be obsessed with ZY but now that harder contents keep having bosses that recover too fast from stun while also taking longer to get stunned is ridiculous.
Evelyn and Ellen are both good outside of stun and Harumasa is supposed to be as well but he lacks the proper support for it especially considering his best stunner wants to stay onfield until the enemy is stunned and otherwise doesn’t buff you outside of her massive stun dmg multiplier. His damage outside of stun also relies on the enemy being afflicted by an anomaly but there really isn’t a great anomaly support for him that would rather stay on field thenselves other than Burnice, but fire inherently has anti synergy with electric and doesn’t really provide direct buffs. Astra will be a big buff for attackers doing damage outside of stun. We also need more stunners that buff outside of stun and don’t need a ton of field time.
I think the thing with S-rank DPS agents needing "set ups" to get their optimal damage can be partially blamed on Billy, who was probably the first DPS agent they designed, since the Cunning Hares trio all serve as the baseline template for all agents after them. The thing with Billy is that his kit is the only DPS agent that doesn't require "set ups" or resource management. You get into Crouch Shot, and voila, enjoy a minimum of +50% damage that's effective regardless of whether the enemy is stunned or not. I think the devs realized that if they implemented the same design principle they used on Billy to limited S-rank agents, they'll get pretty busted, and thus, they overreacted and made DPS Attack units kinda clunky to use at M0.
Imma be honest ZY does not need m1 to not feel clunky. If bullets are an issue it’s cause you’re spending too much time on her which is not the kind of dps she is. And let’s be real miyabi is essentially an attacker just as much as harumasa is. Their real issue is creating pairings for units that isn’t always obvious until it’s too late. I’m sure more would’ve gotten yanagi if they knew about miyabi and I’m sure more would’ve pulled for lighter if they knew about Evelyn
Ellen can be clunky but she’s first limited and still very much can clear things w ease especially if you have lighter or Caesar. No attackers or anomaly so far have needed mindscapes to do what their main gameplay is. Their unit pairing is more crucial to the damage than copies are
I agree about Zhu Yuan. I'd actually say Zhu Yuan's M1 is literally, unironically useless. A good Zhu rotation will give you 15 shot shells in total. That's as many as you can possibly fire within a stun window, therefore making the bonus shells completely pointless. Many people who don't play her consistently don't realize this.
@@spice2688 yup. Can only do so much unless they make a stun window buffer that fits ZY. I remember being mad hollow zero didn’t give her m2 cause the m1 bonus they gave almost never got used by me
@@spice2688 yup. Can only do so much unless they make a stun window buffer that fits ZY. I remember being mad hollow zero didn’t give her m2 cause the m1 bonus they gave almost never got used by me
They obviously want to sell mindscapes...but I personally think that the game is changing faster than the design philosophy for the non-anomaly agents is, I think they have had agents planned for a long time but devs have been listening to player feedback so the enemies have evolved differently from the original plan, although maybe its also just that our experiences are coloured by how smooth anomaly plays..I certainly didn't find Ellen clunky early on
it's Mihoyo game, so just accept newer dps will 99% of the time better than old dps. I always pull my favorite dps by design and gameplay then get all the best support for them is how I ignore the powercreep
You’re missing the entire point of the video just to say “it’s what mihoyo does so stop crying. I pull for characters that look strong and their best supports so this issue isn’t a problem for me 😌”
@@gokusan733 well he making this vid while ignore the fact that Miyabi and Yanagi is 2 newest dps while all the clunky and weak attacker is old dps, and let not talk about harumasa because he's free and free stuff is always mid at best
Me personally I like a hybrid between anomaly and attack, that’s why I play my Miyabi as an attack agent lmao, there’s very specific content that will punish you if you do and don’t have a stunner, for example I can’t think of the name off the top of my head but in endless battle tower there is a enemy that gains a shield and you can’t build anomaly on it so in that instance you HAVE to stun, or that big belobog machine, on its second stage it cannot be stunned unless you impair it, so a stun unit is useless, my personal team is miyabi, Lucy, lighter Anomaly/ atk buff/ ice buff works perfectly my miyabi deals more damage than a anomaly comp miyabi would and I’m prepared for any enemy
I agree that Attackers are made clunky on purpose to bait for their Mindscapes. And not just their mindscapes. We have Nekomata's kit spread all over across her mindscapes and signature. She feels lackluster going by herself and you need the extra def shred from attacking from behind. And if you only get her signature, you are still missing the "stunned counts and back attacks" perk, specially against bigger bosses that you cant just slide behind them. Not to mention her additional ability needs a physical anomaly agent to get any advantage of. I never had problems with my M0 zhu yuan though, probably because during a stun window I chain attack twice with her (chain, cancel, switch to nicole to EX/ult, chain, cancel), that gives me +6, followed up by ultimate for another +3. Enough to last me the stun window. But it's true that for M0 we have to look for workarounds to cope for their clunkyness. Going outside the attacker class, Lighter needs his w-engine. The only other w-engine able to give him the impact needed to fully get the +75% DMG is koleda's, and you have to EX-EX followup with it before starting the flurry of punches. Again, it's cumbersome. And let's not talk about M1 Rina. The most notorious case of an M1 needed. I think the anomaly class stands on its own as the class that don't need mindscapes or signatures.
I agree with that and i think that i know why anomaly is well....the abnormal one. To fully shine anomaly requires another anomaly character. Jane was great at release but dissorder was considered more trouble than what it was worth. Add Burnice and you have beast. Burnice who also breath new life to Pipper. Then we have Yanagi and Miyabi, beast on their own right. But you want to extract as much as you can from without going for signature? You put them together.....or start cloning Burnice I think thats why their desing on Mindscapes is different from the rest. Non-anomaly want at least M1, while Anomaly wants another Anomaly.
I think reason the meters exist is so to create complexity. Instead of formulaic Genshin rotations - 1 e q 2 e q 3 e q4 e q n4d n4d, you have to think flexibly to understand when you have the opportunity to farm charges, bank charges, and spend charges. To dumb down that extra aspect to manage removes skill expression and makes the gameplay rote. Ellen doesn’t really feel bad because she doesn’t have enough charges. Ellen feels bad because she’s an on-field DPS with no interrupt resist, Soukaku takes FOREVER to buff, Lycaon is a stunner who sucks at on-fielding, and M0 rina has horrible horrible uptime. M0 Ellen with Caesar + M1 Rina feels good. She has interrupt resist, she has a low fieldtime highuptime support, it leaves her free to be on-field and farm charges without constantly interrupting your combo by getting hit or being stuck on other units. The other reason Ellen really feels good with M1 is because she’s been power crept. Zhu Yuan is fine at M0. Because she does the exact same rotation every time and is capable of doing the exact same rotation every time since she only comes on field during stun, you should never have to think about charges. Especially with 1.4 ult changes that give her more access to charge attacks to farm shots. Ditto for Harumasa. You stun with your stunner, then do the exact same rotation in stun window every time. If you don’t, it’s because you fucked up your rotation. (Or if anomaly triggered at a weird time, which is admittedly fucking annoying.) I really think this is a skill issue, and maybe misplaced frustration at early units getting power crept and new free unit being not as stupid as new paid unit. I do agree that Ellen without Caesar at launch felt like an incomplete unit. She feels TERRIBLE with Soukaku Lycaon. But we’ve had so many options with Lighter, Caesar, guaranteed Rina at 300, 1.4 ults, and now upcoming Astra that I think that Ellen’s gameplay is fine now, outside of the problem of insane power creep.
I did not know any of this cause o don’t usually pull cons on a character or weapons!! But what I can say is usually attackers want to be played with stunners and in the last betas I noticed that attackers and stunners both get reduced daze multiplier in almost every beta I checked So from start they are made to have a slower to get stun window and now from your video they also have part of their kit locked in M1 Great decisions hoyo, like you can do this to standard characters not limited ones!! Tbh I’m not sure about next patch characters I did not dig deep into their multiplier I just know I’m gonna try to get either or both cause I like them XD (cry in my only 32 pulls)
ZY was my first and luckest pull. Lost the 50/50 to Rina, then pulled ZY in the same 10 pull. She handle all my early game fights, lots of fun. Still the goto for her element in Shiyu. I would love to see buffs for attackers too, likely in the form of a character.
I only feel that for Ellen, i don’t have a problem for Zhuyuan and Harumasa. I think the little complexity that they have is good to have in game with how simple anomaly character is, i only feel that way about ellen because using her sharknami just feels better to look at. Newer character are just easier to play from what i seen, Miyabi has undeserved egregious amounts of i-frames since her attacks are already stun-locking the enemies, why would she even need those i-frames? Comparatively Harumasa is the hardest character to maximise in this game, and we can’t really compare their power because Harumasa undoubtedly made to be weaker because he’s free. We have to wait for Evelyn or newer attacker then compare them to older anomaly, probably not with Miyabi because she’s special. Tbh don’t you think anomaly is stronger than attacker because they’ve only releases anomaly agent recently? This is how these games works, they favor characters that are on banner more to the previous ones, just look at the buffs we are getting in shiyu defense and deadly assault, none of them fully benefit attackers except for when Lighter shows up. Attackers are crazy good during lighter’s banner, those buffs still benefits anomaly greatly as well, but a standard attacker like Soldier 11 was super strong back then. Not to mention natural increase in powerlevel for each new character is what to be expected from these games, Ellen and Zhuyuan is old, Harumasa is also free. not like that they can’t perform because they still do, they have some real impressive clears, but they do need more skill from the players, from an action game perspective that’s really cool.
Chain attacks are awesome but feel jarring if they occur too often and unfun if they never happen. I feel like stunners either need to do their job better or attackers need to have impact rolled into their kit so they can open the chain attack themselves
I find myself skipping attack units because I don't like my stunner situation, I find myself skipping stunners because I don't have an attacker I care to build around. It's a death loop
This just makes me glad that I intentionally ignore Mindscapes on S-Ranks. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. I've had this feeling that Anomaly is almost being TOO focused on. I can't help but wonder that the whole class is going to get powercrept. Cuz they have to entice players to pull for future attackers somehow. This almost has a "Lets get this over with" vibe to it. Its weird.
I would like to say that generally speaking I agree that it's annoying for the attackers that have released, they have some QOL features locked behind M1. With Ellen and Harumasa, it's effectively just making the character feel better to play. They both barely gain about 6-8% total damage from their M1's, but having smoothness of gameplay behind mindscapes sucks. That being said, this is NOT the case for Zhu Yuan. Her M1 has a different problem, which is being complete bait, and a borderline scam. All you need to do to ensure you have maximum shotshells during the stun window at M0 is to do 1 singular Evasive Assist with her. Her Chain Attack, Evasive Assist, EX skill, and Ult all give you 3 shot shells. Meaning, if you play her properly and don't waste shells, you can fire 15 shotshells during the stun window. That is as many as you can possibly fire within the average stun window of an enemy. This means her M1 literally serves no purpose, as you will already having full shotshells every single time you stun an enemy. You also will not have enough time to fire the additional 6 you get from M1 within a stun window. For anyone curious, it's also not worth firing them right after the enemy recovers from stun. The less time you spend stunning an enemy in a Zhu Yuan team, the more damage you lose. From a DPS sheet point of view, it is objectively a 0% increase in her damage. From a gameplay point of view, it means you press 1 or 2 less buttons.
I agree that attackers feel more underwhelming compared to the easy million damage our anomaly builders can achieve. But for me, even after Miyabi release i still have the most fun with Zhu Yuan (attackers in general) and i'm saving to get her M1 during her rerun. Though Miyabi is also super fun because she is kind of a powerhouse, she can do everything by herself.
I love this, I personally use Ellen everywhere I go because to me she’s still the most fun agent. And Zhu is defo up there, sucking in 5 enemies w Nicole then piercing shotting them with Zhu never gets old
I am a Zhu Yuan enjoyer myself, she's easily my favorite character. If you are looking to increase her damage I wouldn't recommend M1. It's actually not a DPS increase, as there are some simple ways to always insure you will always be able to fire 15 shothsells into an enemy during the stun window (such as doing an evasive assist before you stun). That's the max amount possible within a stun window, and doing damage outside a stun window with Zhu Yuan is also an overall damage loss, therefore making the extra 6 shotshells not really worth it. The biggest recommendation I would have if you want extra damage for ZY is actually Qingyi M1. Qingyi M1 is about a 23% damage increase for ZY overall. That's even more than Zhu Yuan M2 which is only a 9% overall increase in her damage. Same thing goes for ZY's signature Wengine, it's only about a 5.6% increase over Starlight Knight even with the better crit stats. All that being said, if you just want the M1 for fun and don't care about damage, then go for it my man. Hope some of the info here helps!
@spice2688 Thanks. i'm actually planning on getting the full kit. Zhu M1, her signature W-Engine (though Harumasa's works wonders on her. But still...) Then Qingyi M1's and finally her Qingyi's W-Engine. Zhu, Qingyi and Nicole are by far my favorite team. And yeah, i have mastered her ways, been playing her since release. 🫡
Based on what ive seen and how most play attacker is the wrong word for the class the better name might be assault as they are more built around bursting then being an main attack unit
Have every banner (bar Rina) and just A0W1 and move on. Reasoning is you don't need to over invest into dupes as you'll pull more copies as you fail 50/50's and a waste if already maxed. Extra incidental copies will make you rotate it back in as it will not only close the power gap (with newer ones), but change its flavor (as you mentioned) via quality of life that smoothens out play style. I only E9 all my banners so, aside from saving a metric ton of mats, I leave growth on the table for older banners (along with dupes for them) to close the gap with newer ones and stay fresh through new content. Lastly by not going beyond A0-E9-W1 on any banners I feel the content retains a greater level of challenge that results i a greater sense of accomplishment when clearing it. Instantly not clearing content also tends to stretch out patch content by a few days.
Attackers just need too much to feel complete while anomaly can be slapped together with almost any team comp, still triggering all of their passives, and be totally functional. Attackers need, at minimum, a limited 5-star stunner, Lycaon, Koleda, and Anby don't come even close to the boosts that Qingyi and Lighter provide, and as you said, many need their E1 to make them feel comfy.
@ethericdezigns1528 she's must have it you don't have jane. Even then she's still nice to have if you need more anomaly for different teams. She's far and away the best 4 star application at the moment.
it's also why I have little interest in pulling Evelyn, I don't have lighter so thats already a damage loss and she gets better at M1 and i don't want to invest that much into her because im saving up for the Angels of Delusion.
i think the next two or three patches are gonna be really telling of the future direction of zzz. we can either get straight power creep, and every dps is stronger than the last. we can have a meta change from anomaly to another role becoming OP (perhaps support or attacker). or we can get some balance patches that help keep the older units in game. only reason the first seems so likely is cuz they’ve gone 5 patches and only release 1 A rank agent. kinda shitty that a new player is limited to almost half the roster,
I never found my M0 Zhu Yuan hard to use and always have her enhanced shots up Harumasa is a skill thing for sure knowing when to use skills and such he's a high skill character for sure. The problem was when Jane was introduced and beyond that problem is anomaly ignores the games combat mechanics a problem I don't think will last. Besides Miyabi who needs her weapon for ease on building her the rest are the hyperbloom of ZZZ easy to build for high damage results maybe to high but still easy. They are the beginner player friendly units slap as much anomaly proficiency and attack on them and boom the game is on easy mode new enemy types and game mechanics will be balancing them very soon. We might even have to rethink team building to adjust to new mechanics anomaly isn't fun for me Zhu Yuan and Harumasa are more enjoyable characters to use in my opinion any basic gamer can use the anomaly units to a decent amount of success literally anyone
My opinion, not cinemas, supports. Anomaly = Higher damage floor, Anomalies by themselves are far more self sufficient units Attack =higher damage ceiling, BUT, the caveat of having to use a stunners like Lighter, Qing Yi, partially Caesar as well. Anomalies do benefit from those supports as well, but far and away prefer other anomaly agents like Yanagi, Burnice.
Hell miyabi can just run full anomaly with burnice/yanagi. If you know everyone's gimmicks then it's almost impossible to take dmg while just melting the enemy in an anime fuck you.
I wish Ellen's charged scissor attack had a significant increase in Daze so she could be played (@m0) as a hard carry on field most of the time as opposed to gather the stacks and swap off to spend most of the time watching Lyacon or Lighter. Having a way to stun the enemy in her kit would also open up team comps to run two supports.
That is how she plays with Lycaon/Caesar. Lycaon’s daze on his normals is bad so he just swaps for ex and assist, and Ellen is on field most of the time. Lighter and Qing Yi are what turn her into a stun dps.
I would wish there was a more noteable difference between attacker and anomaly, when i want to pay attention to ressource managment that is really important and not just a buff i'd pick anomaly, why did they give attackers ressources that are the core part of their kit to such a degree that mindscapes even need to upgrade the method of aquisition... both roles benefit of supports and stuns just the same, i just wish attackers had less direct ressource managment and would be more focused around combo strings they want to pull off and have tools in their kit to help with that which are not ressource reliant but just input reliant... i do absolutely agree that they should not have those flaws without copies tho, it's definitely a reason why i didn't pick either ellen or zhu yuan as they didn't feel good to play with one copy at all
anomaly resistance. EZ fix. Makes it much slower to apply anomaly so it's more in line with a stunner+attacker. Then revolve the meta around having a mix between attackers and anamoly that can be changed around in two to three teams to clear content. Enemies that are weaker to stun, enemies that are weaker to anamoly. Done, no need for difficulty spikes, or FOMO for new characters. Just nudging players to play a full width of play-styles to clear content.
They that already. And honestly if your running AM% on all of them, it really doesn't matter. And then there's Astras M2, 70% build up for anomaly chars. That alone will negate most stage debuffs.
Burnice needs her M1? Never felt that way to me lmao. My M0W0 Burnice with unleveled skills cleared Deadly Assault Pompey with only only Piper as a teammate.
I believe the words I used was that you preferably want her M1 Or W engine, you can defo make do without but having one really helps out keeping her Nitro Fueled
@@HakoCity before Ultimate update maybe but since individual ultimate implemented i find it keeping her in nitro fuel state is not that hard anymore ( i dont have her sig nor m1) since her ultimate replenish some of her Nitro bar.
They just need to make attackers deal more damage outside of stun window. 🙄 Hoping Evelyn is like that, I trust that Lighter's short field time and buffs being active outside of stun is a sign for that. I used to be obsessed with ZY but now that harder contents keep having bosses that recover too fast from stun while also taking longer to get stunned is ridiculous.
Evelyn and Ellen are both good outside of stun and Harumasa is supposed to be as well but he lacks the proper support for it especially considering his best stunner wants to stay onfield until the enemy is stunned and otherwise doesn’t buff you outside of her massive stun dmg multiplier. His damage outside of stun also relies on the enemy being afflicted by an anomaly but there really isn’t a great anomaly support for him that would rather stay on field thenselves other than Burnice, but fire inherently has anti synergy with electric and doesn’t really provide direct buffs. Astra will be a big buff for attackers doing damage outside of stun. We also need more stunners that buff outside of stun and don’t need a ton of field time.
I think the thing with S-rank DPS agents needing "set ups" to get their optimal damage can be partially blamed on Billy, who was probably the first DPS agent they designed, since the Cunning Hares trio all serve as the baseline template for all agents after them.
The thing with Billy is that his kit is the only DPS agent that doesn't require "set ups" or resource management. You get into Crouch Shot, and voila, enjoy a minimum of +50% damage that's effective regardless of whether the enemy is stunned or not. I think the devs realized that if they implemented the same design principle they used on Billy to limited S-rank agents, they'll get pretty busted, and thus, they overreacted and made DPS Attack units kinda clunky to use at M0.
Oooh interesting analysis!
Imma be honest ZY does not need m1 to not feel clunky. If bullets are an issue it’s cause you’re spending too much time on her which is not the kind of dps she is. And let’s be real miyabi is essentially an attacker just as much as harumasa is. Their real issue is creating pairings for units that isn’t always obvious until it’s too late. I’m sure more would’ve gotten yanagi if they knew about miyabi and I’m sure more would’ve pulled for lighter if they knew about Evelyn
Ellen can be clunky but she’s first limited and still very much can clear things w ease especially if you have lighter or Caesar. No attackers or anomaly so far have needed mindscapes to do what their main gameplay is. Their unit pairing is more crucial to the damage than copies are
I agree about Zhu Yuan. I'd actually say Zhu Yuan's M1 is literally, unironically useless. A good Zhu rotation will give you 15 shot shells in total. That's as many as you can possibly fire within a stun window, therefore making the bonus shells completely pointless. Many people who don't play her consistently don't realize this.
@@spice2688 yup. Can only do so much unless they make a stun window buffer that fits ZY. I remember being mad hollow zero didn’t give her m2 cause the m1 bonus they gave almost never got used by me
@@spice2688 yup. Can only do so much unless they make a stun window buffer that fits ZY. I remember being mad hollow zero didn’t give her m2 cause the m1 bonus they gave almost never got used by me
@@Tompico I had the exact same thought and reaction when I used ZY in Hollow Zero lol
They obviously want to sell mindscapes...but I personally think that the game is changing faster than the design philosophy for the non-anomaly agents is, I think they have had agents planned for a long time but devs have been listening to player feedback so the enemies have evolved differently from the original plan, although maybe its also just that our experiences are coloured by how smooth anomaly plays..I certainly didn't find Ellen clunky early on
it's Mihoyo game, so just accept newer dps will 99% of the time better than old dps. I always pull my favorite dps by design and gameplay then get all the best support for them is how I ignore the powercreep
You’re missing the entire point of the video just to say “it’s what mihoyo does so stop crying. I pull for characters that look strong and their best supports so this issue isn’t a problem for me 😌”
@@gokusan733 well he making this vid while ignore the fact that Miyabi and Yanagi is 2 newest dps while all the clunky and weak attacker is old dps, and let not talk about harumasa because he's free and free stuff is always mid at best
@@victortran2962he's currently 1 of the best characters rn but with how fast units are creeping each other probably not for long😅
Me personally I like a hybrid between anomaly and attack, that’s why I play my Miyabi as an attack agent lmao, there’s very specific content that will punish you if you do and don’t have a stunner, for example I can’t think of the name off the top of my head but in endless battle tower there is a enemy that gains a shield and you can’t build anomaly on it so in that instance you HAVE to stun, or that big belobog machine, on its second stage it cannot be stunned unless you impair it, so a stun unit is useless, my personal team is miyabi, Lucy, lighter
Anomaly/ atk buff/ ice buff works perfectly my miyabi deals more damage than a anomaly comp miyabi would and I’m prepared for any enemy
I agree that Attackers are made clunky on purpose to bait for their Mindscapes. And not just their mindscapes. We have Nekomata's kit spread all over across her mindscapes and signature. She feels lackluster going by herself and you need the extra def shred from attacking from behind. And if you only get her signature, you are still missing the "stunned counts and back attacks" perk, specially against bigger bosses that you cant just slide behind them. Not to mention her additional ability needs a physical anomaly agent to get any advantage of.
I never had problems with my M0 zhu yuan though, probably because during a stun window I chain attack twice with her (chain, cancel, switch to nicole to EX/ult, chain, cancel), that gives me +6, followed up by ultimate for another +3. Enough to last me the stun window. But it's true that for M0 we have to look for workarounds to cope for their clunkyness.
Going outside the attacker class, Lighter needs his w-engine. The only other w-engine able to give him the impact needed to fully get the +75% DMG is koleda's, and you have to EX-EX followup with it before starting the flurry of punches. Again, it's cumbersome.
And let's not talk about M1 Rina. The most notorious case of an M1 needed.
I think the anomaly class stands on its own as the class that don't need mindscapes or signatures.
I agree with that and i think that i know why anomaly is well....the abnormal one.
To fully shine anomaly requires another anomaly character.
Jane was great at release but dissorder was considered more trouble than what it was worth. Add Burnice and you have beast.
Burnice who also breath new life to Pipper.
Then we have Yanagi and Miyabi, beast on their own right. But you want to extract as much as you can from without going for signature? You put them together.....or start cloning Burnice
I think thats why their desing on Mindscapes is different from the rest. Non-anomaly want at least M1, while Anomaly wants another Anomaly.
I think reason the meters exist is so to create complexity. Instead of formulaic Genshin rotations - 1 e q 2 e q 3 e q4 e q n4d n4d, you have to think flexibly to understand when you have the opportunity to farm charges, bank charges, and spend charges. To dumb down that extra aspect to manage removes skill expression and makes the gameplay rote.
Ellen doesn’t really feel bad because she doesn’t have enough charges. Ellen feels bad because she’s an on-field DPS with no interrupt resist, Soukaku takes FOREVER to buff, Lycaon is a stunner who sucks at on-fielding, and M0 rina has horrible horrible uptime. M0 Ellen with Caesar + M1 Rina feels good. She has interrupt resist, she has a low fieldtime highuptime support, it leaves her free to be on-field and farm charges without constantly interrupting your combo by getting hit or being stuck on other units.
The other reason Ellen really feels good with M1 is because she’s been power crept.
Zhu Yuan is fine at M0. Because she does the exact same rotation every time and is capable of doing the exact same rotation every time since she only comes on field during stun, you should never have to think about charges. Especially with 1.4 ult changes that give her more access to charge attacks to farm shots.
Ditto for Harumasa. You stun with your stunner, then do the exact same rotation in stun window every time. If you don’t, it’s because you fucked up your rotation. (Or if anomaly triggered at a weird time, which is admittedly fucking annoying.)
I really think this is a skill issue, and maybe misplaced frustration at early units getting power crept and new free unit being not as stupid as new paid unit.
I do agree that Ellen without Caesar at launch felt like an incomplete unit. She feels TERRIBLE with Soukaku Lycaon. But we’ve had so many options with Lighter, Caesar, guaranteed Rina at 300, 1.4 ults, and now upcoming Astra that I think that Ellen’s gameplay is fine now, outside of the problem of insane power creep.
I did not know any of this cause o don’t usually pull cons on a character or weapons!!
But what I can say is usually attackers want to be played with stunners and in the last betas I noticed that attackers and stunners both get reduced daze multiplier in almost every beta I checked
So from start they are made to have a slower to get stun window and now from your video they also have part of their kit locked in M1
Great decisions hoyo, like you can do this to standard characters not limited ones!!
Tbh I’m not sure about next patch characters I did not dig deep into their multiplier I just know I’m gonna try to get either or both cause I like them XD (cry in my only 32 pulls)
ZY was my first and luckest pull. Lost the 50/50 to Rina, then pulled ZY in the same 10 pull. She handle all my early game fights, lots of fun. Still the goto for her element in Shiyu. I would love to see buffs for attackers too, likely in the form of a character.
I only feel that for Ellen, i don’t have a problem for Zhuyuan and Harumasa. I think the little complexity that they have is good to have in game with how simple anomaly character is, i only feel that way about ellen because using her sharknami just feels better to look at. Newer character are just easier to play from what i seen, Miyabi has undeserved egregious amounts of i-frames since her attacks are already stun-locking the enemies, why would she even need those i-frames? Comparatively Harumasa is the hardest character to maximise in this game, and we can’t really compare their power because Harumasa undoubtedly made to be weaker because he’s free. We have to wait for Evelyn or newer attacker then compare them to older anomaly, probably not with Miyabi because she’s special. Tbh don’t you think anomaly is stronger than attacker because they’ve only releases anomaly agent recently? This is how these games works, they favor characters that are on banner more to the previous ones, just look at the buffs we are getting in shiyu defense and deadly assault, none of them fully benefit attackers except for when Lighter shows up. Attackers are crazy good during lighter’s banner, those buffs still benefits anomaly greatly as well, but a standard attacker like Soldier 11 was super strong back then. Not to mention natural increase in powerlevel for each new character is what to be expected from these games, Ellen and Zhuyuan is old, Harumasa is also free. not like that they can’t perform because they still do, they have some real impressive clears, but they do need more skill from the players, from an action game perspective that’s really cool.
Chain attacks are awesome but feel jarring if they occur too often and unfun if they never happen. I feel like stunners either need to do their job better or attackers need to have impact rolled into their kit so they can open the chain attack themselves
I find myself skipping attack units because I don't like my stunner situation, I find myself skipping stunners because I don't have an attacker I care to build around. It's a death loop
This just makes me glad that I intentionally ignore Mindscapes on S-Ranks. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.
I've had this feeling that Anomaly is almost being TOO focused on. I can't help but wonder that the whole class is going to get powercrept. Cuz they have to entice players to pull for future attackers somehow.
This almost has a "Lets get this over with" vibe to it. Its weird.
I would like to say that generally speaking I agree that it's annoying for the attackers that have released, they have some QOL features locked behind M1. With Ellen and Harumasa, it's effectively just making the character feel better to play. They both barely gain about 6-8% total damage from their M1's, but having smoothness of gameplay behind mindscapes sucks.
That being said, this is NOT the case for Zhu Yuan. Her M1 has a different problem, which is being complete bait, and a borderline scam. All you need to do to ensure you have maximum shotshells during the stun window at M0 is to do 1 singular Evasive Assist with her. Her Chain Attack, Evasive Assist, EX skill, and Ult all give you 3 shot shells. Meaning, if you play her properly and don't waste shells, you can fire 15 shotshells during the stun window. That is as many as you can possibly fire within the average stun window of an enemy.
This means her M1 literally serves no purpose, as you will already having full shotshells every single time you stun an enemy. You also will not have enough time to fire the additional 6 you get from M1 within a stun window. For anyone curious, it's also not worth firing them right after the enemy recovers from stun. The less time you spend stunning an enemy in a Zhu Yuan team, the more damage you lose. From a DPS sheet point of view, it is objectively a 0% increase in her damage. From a gameplay point of view, it means you press 1 or 2 less buttons.
Very well laid out points Spice!
@@HakoCity Thanks Hako. Keep it up, like your stuff
I agree that attackers feel more underwhelming compared to the easy million damage our anomaly builders can achieve. But for me, even after Miyabi release i still have the most fun with Zhu Yuan (attackers in general) and i'm saving to get her M1 during her rerun. Though Miyabi is also super fun because she is kind of a powerhouse, she can do everything by herself.
I love this, I personally use Ellen everywhere I go because to me she’s still the most fun agent. And Zhu is defo up there, sucking in 5 enemies w Nicole then piercing shotting them with Zhu never gets old
I am a Zhu Yuan enjoyer myself, she's easily my favorite character. If you are looking to increase her damage I wouldn't recommend M1. It's actually not a DPS increase, as there are some simple ways to always insure you will always be able to fire 15 shothsells into an enemy during the stun window (such as doing an evasive assist before you stun). That's the max amount possible within a stun window, and doing damage outside a stun window with Zhu Yuan is also an overall damage loss, therefore making the extra 6 shotshells not really worth it.
The biggest recommendation I would have if you want extra damage for ZY is actually Qingyi M1. Qingyi M1 is about a 23% damage increase for ZY overall. That's even more than Zhu Yuan M2 which is only a 9% overall increase in her damage.
Same thing goes for ZY's signature Wengine, it's only about a 5.6% increase over Starlight Knight even with the better crit stats.
All that being said, if you just want the M1 for fun and don't care about damage, then go for it my man. Hope some of the info here helps!
@spice2688
Thanks. i'm actually planning on getting the full kit. Zhu M1, her signature W-Engine (though Harumasa's works wonders on her. But still...) Then Qingyi M1's and finally her Qingyi's W-Engine.
Zhu, Qingyi and Nicole are by far my favorite team. And yeah, i have mastered her ways, been playing her since release. 🫡
@@YindigoYangMonk Hell yeah dude. Good luck with the pulls. Incredibly based taste.
@@spice2688 Zhu mains rise-up! 🤝
Based on what ive seen and how most play attacker is the wrong word for the class the better name might be assault as they are more built around bursting then being an main attack unit
Interesting thought!
Have every banner (bar Rina) and just A0W1 and move on. Reasoning is you don't need to over invest into dupes as you'll pull more copies as you fail 50/50's and a waste if already maxed. Extra incidental copies will make you rotate it back in as it will not only close the power gap (with newer ones), but change its flavor (as you mentioned) via quality of life that smoothens out play style. I only E9 all my banners so, aside from saving a metric ton of mats, I leave growth on the table for older banners (along with dupes for them) to close the gap with newer ones and stay fresh through new content.
Lastly by not going beyond A0-E9-W1 on any banners I feel the content retains a greater level of challenge that results i a greater sense of accomplishment when clearing it. Instantly not clearing content also tends to stretch out patch content by a few days.
I can 100% get behind this reasoning, it's why i clear the Shiyu rotations with A ranks, the sense of accomplishment is greater!
Attackers just need too much to feel complete while anomaly can be slapped together with almost any team comp, still triggering all of their passives, and be totally functional. Attackers need, at minimum, a limited 5-star stunner, Lycaon, Koleda, and Anby don't come even close to the boosts that Qingyi and Lighter provide, and as you said, many need their E1 to make them feel comfy.
Buffing the base Stun damage multiplier could be a buff for attackers or maybe just a general like 10% buff to attackers' ATK stats in the game
very well layed out points, i overall agree, also the new anomalies just trying to outshine my girl Piper
Piper is Anomaly and remains a 'Must Have' A rank.
@ethericdezigns1528 she's must have it you don't have jane. Even then she's still nice to have if you need more anomaly for different teams. She's far and away the best 4 star application at the moment.
@@Kspice9000 Some people call her and A rank Jane or a second Jane.
interesting conversation. also, are you from sweden? i'm from sweden and you sound slightly swedish
Thank you! Yessir Sweden indeed!
@@HakoCity sverige gang
The stats on your characters make me want to cry. So damn high!
it's also why I have little interest in pulling Evelyn, I don't have lighter so thats already a damage loss and she gets better at M1 and i don't want to invest that much into her because im saving up for the Angels of Delusion.
I just plan on getting her W-engine.
i think the next two or three patches are gonna be really telling of the future direction of zzz. we can either get straight power creep, and every dps is stronger than the last. we can have a meta change from anomaly to another role becoming OP (perhaps support or attacker). or we can get some balance patches that help keep the older units in game. only reason the first seems so likely is cuz they’ve gone 5 patches and only release 1 A rank agent. kinda shitty that a new player is limited to almost half the roster,
I agree i might consider m1 zy after seeing this
I never found my M0 Zhu Yuan hard to use and always have her enhanced shots up Harumasa is a skill thing for sure knowing when to use skills and such he's a high skill character for sure. The problem was when Jane was introduced and beyond that problem is anomaly ignores the games combat mechanics a problem I don't think will last. Besides Miyabi who needs her weapon for ease on building her the rest are the hyperbloom of ZZZ easy to build for high damage results maybe to high but still easy. They are the beginner player friendly units slap as much anomaly proficiency and attack on them and boom the game is on easy mode new enemy types and game mechanics will be balancing them very soon. We might even have to rethink team building to adjust to new mechanics anomaly isn't fun for me Zhu Yuan and Harumasa are more enjoyable characters to use in my opinion any basic gamer can use the anomaly units to a decent amount of success literally anyone
I just build my attackers with anomaly drive discs and they work!!!!
Can't wait till we get an S-Rank Anby or Billy.
Hear me out, S rank Howl
My opinion, not cinemas, supports.
Anomaly = Higher damage floor, Anomalies by themselves are far more self sufficient units
Attack =higher damage ceiling, BUT, the caveat of having to use a stunners like Lighter, Qing Yi, partially Caesar as well.
Anomalies do benefit from those supports as well, but far and away prefer other anomaly agents like Yanagi, Burnice.
Hell miyabi can just run full anomaly with burnice/yanagi.
If you know everyone's gimmicks then it's almost impossible to take dmg while just melting the enemy in an anime fuck you.
I wish Ellen's charged scissor attack had a significant increase in Daze so she could be played (@m0) as a hard carry on field most of the time as opposed to gather the stacks and swap off to spend most of the time watching Lyacon or Lighter. Having a way to stun the enemy in her kit would also open up team comps to run two supports.
That is how she plays with Lycaon/Caesar. Lycaon’s daze on his normals is bad so he just swaps for ex and assist, and Ellen is on field most of the time.
Lighter and Qing Yi are what turn her into a stun dps.
I'm glad this video has subtitles lol
Haha I’m sorry friend, I know some peeps struggle with my acxent D:
I would wish there was a more noteable difference between attacker and anomaly, when i want to pay attention to ressource managment that is really important and not just a buff i'd pick anomaly, why did they give attackers ressources that are the core part of their kit to such a degree that mindscapes even need to upgrade the method of aquisition... both roles benefit of supports and stuns just the same, i just wish attackers had less direct ressource managment and would be more focused around combo strings they want to pull off and have tools in their kit to help with that which are not ressource reliant but just input reliant...
i do absolutely agree that they should not have those flaws without copies tho, it's definitely a reason why i didn't pick either ellen or zhu yuan as they didn't feel good to play with one copy at all
anomaly resistance. EZ fix. Makes it much slower to apply anomaly so it's more in line with a stunner+attacker. Then revolve the meta around having a mix between attackers and anamoly that can be changed around in two to three teams to clear content. Enemies that are weaker to stun, enemies that are weaker to anamoly.
Done, no need for difficulty spikes, or FOMO for new characters. Just nudging players to play a full width of play-styles to clear content.
They that already.
And honestly if your running AM% on all of them, it really doesn't matter.
And then there's Astras M2, 70% build up for anomaly chars. That alone will negate most stage debuffs.
As long as you don't count miyabi this can work (she's too god damn strong)
Burnice needs her M1? Never felt that way to me lmao.
My M0W0 Burnice with unleveled skills cleared Deadly Assault Pompey with only only Piper as a teammate.
I believe the words I used was that you preferably want her M1 Or W engine, you can defo make do without but having one really helps out keeping her Nitro Fueled
@@HakoCity before Ultimate update maybe but since individual ultimate implemented i find it keeping her in nitro fuel state is not that hard anymore ( i dont have her sig nor m1) since her ultimate replenish some of her Nitro bar.
@@exion2011 You are quite correct as before you were advised to use Burnice as your ultimator to help out if you lacked M1 and Engine, Good spot!
I don't care
…ok?
thanks for being kind enough to push up his engagement on the algorithm though!