Man as a native myself who've lived in a reservation, I lived through that kind of shit and saw how it broke families. This movie hit me very hard. One of the best and most heart wrenching movie I've ever watched.
The sad thing is that whether the colonial government of New Zealand saw it as such or not, by seizing the land of the Maori they also destroyed the tribal unit and the traditional way of life. Before the treaty, Maori had strong ties to their birthplaces and ancestry, shared living space with their whole family and lived by codes of honour and propriety in peace and war. But the imperious colonists with the weight of centralised government and modern technology could only see the traditional Maori ways as backwards and incompatible with civilisation and ended up displacing countless rural Maori, now deprived of their land and livelihood, into cramped housing, separated from their kin but still otherised by the dominant whites. A few generations of menial work, social isolation and loss of cultural identity later, you get this situation - a self-fulfilling prophecy that gives racists an excuse to patronise. The most difficult thing for me as the descendant of immigrants to NZ that there is no going way to the way things were. Affirmative action is definitely a thing here, and sometimes the way it's implemented feel like, well, racially motivated handouts which are blind to the actual need of those receiving them. But on the other hand, there can be no doubt that the fate of Maoridom has been fraught with injustice and that there is a sense of debt. Perhaps it's a cope, but I see materialism and capitalism as being the driving force that now holds people down, and it doesn't care where they come from as long as they can be squeezed for something. The fat cats aren't looking out for the welfare of people who look like them; the more the poor fight each other for the scraps, the less attention is paid to the fact that people are begging for dollars in the same cities as those with more than anybody could ever need.
Kiwi here. When I was still in highschool ('98), Cliff Curtis was part of a thespian troop touring the country giving performances and doing workshops with students interested in acting etc. After the performance part infront of the assembled school, the actors did a Q&A session but everyone was only really interested in what Cliff/ Uncle Bully was up to. The school joker was given the mic (you could hear the schools disciplinary panel audibly groan when they realized who was about to pose the question). "What was it like to get the bash from Jake the Muss?"- student joker "Ha, well, you see- its this thing called 'acting'. I didn't actually get the bash ya cheeky bugger"- Cliff He went on to tell us he was about to fly out to shoot a movie with George Clooney, Ice Cube and Mark Wahlberg and audition for movies with Johnny Depp and Arnold Schwarzenegger . None of us believed him at the time because those names seemed far to famous for lil ole kiwi boy but those movies ended up being Three Kings, Blow and Collateral Damage.
Cliff Curtis thought long and hard about his role as Uncle Bully. He was very concerned about the rape scene to the point where he consults with his nanny. Cliffs nanny said it was a story that needed to be told and show the very thing that was never spoken about in maori families. A brave and caring man. Arohanui (Big Love) guys.
With the final scene of Beth giving the scene this is how I see it. She is talking about her people being noble, people that had Mana (Prestige/Powerful) and she was saying that she had fallen and lost herself but she was not going to take it anymore, she realized how bad he was and how pathetic he was, she saw him for what he really was and that was what made him vulnerable. If you know NZ fulture you would see this as a powerful message as she had power over him. That was powerful, a woman being strong was unheard of in NZ around that time the domestic violence was a huuuge problem. So this was very significant.
The scene where they discover what Grace has done reveals just how impotent Jake is in the face of a real crisis - one he can't solve with his fists. That moment brings home just how powerless he really is and his true weakness.
I don't remember what was his reaction to finding grace? I hated what happened to her especially so because she was so upbeat and a hopeful dreamer in the beginning of the film. Bully broke her spirit & it was sad to see it affect her response to her friend.
@@allenbird3652 I'm guessing they are referring to the climax of the film as it were..Anyway the part I'm referring to of course is when they found Grace at the end and how when a situation that is something so tragically shocking and heartbreaking and in the face of such tragedy, He became essentially powerless because it's not a situation he can solve with his fists, which is how he handles almost any situation in his daily life and it's because of that his weakness showed in the sense that if he couldn't fight with his fists or anything physical he really had no idea how to handle such a devastating situation when it counted because it left him weak to the point of immobilization. That's what I got out of the comments I might be wrong and just my opinion! Hope everyone has a wonderful day! ✌
A great analysis guys. The "touching of faces" is called a hongi and is a Maori greeting, symbolic of exchanging 'the breath of life' and invokes unity.
@@allenbird3652 probably closer to a hug. Anyone can shake a hand but it takes a certain amount of humility to look eye to eye and press noses/foreheads, plus a hand on the shoulder. A warm handshake will do me though :-)
Great start to 2019. This film horrified me when I first saw it back in the 90s. As a child I witnessed my father abusing my mum although not as severely as depicted in this film but these scenes just devastated me. Such an incredible film. Being Polynesian myself I can strongly identify with a lot of it. It's very surprising to see you blokes reviewing this film. I'd always associated you both with reviewing fun films never serious. You did a good job! Keep up the great work!
Oh wow, we used to watch this often when I was growing up in Australia, one of the most gut-wrenchingly powerful films ever ... and I never noticed Cliff Curtis was in it! Mind blown ...
In the book, there was not retribution scene. The family never find out that uncle Bully raped Grace and the story ends with her leaving and Bully is never punished. But the filmmakers did not want to end it that way, so they gave us the scene we got.
@drag0nfly_girl that's what i took from the book too- that Grace was unsure of who had raped her, that there were so many men drunk off their heads that it could have been any one of them including her own father. she could walk past the man who did it any day or night and never know because they are all suspects who are capable of anything and already capable of turning a blind eye to so much other abuse.
As a teen age pakeha (white man) I lived in Otara in South Auckland, where the move was filmed. Around the same time the move is set. I can tell you that there might be some Hollywood stylization, as in any move, but it’s not that far from true life. We did drink on big taverns with 5-600 men standing around drinking hard out. Not every tavern was as staunch as the one portrayed in the movie. But there was definitely a few I would not venture inside without knowing someone. I once lived and worked in a small fishing village, Las Cuevas, on the north coast of Trinidad. There were some really tough characters in the village. Who were always looking for a fight when they got drink or high. I found “Once we're Warriors” in a video store and invited all the older teen agers and a few of the tough men "to watch a move from where I come from, New Zealand". Once they got pass all the swearing, which there is surprising little of in Trinidad, they were just blown away by the move. After a few minutes into the move there was complete silence until the end when everybody just got up and walked out completely stunned. Definitely one of the most impactful moves I’ve ever seen.
@@dangerislander It was filmed and set in Otara in South Auckland. No, that drinking culture is long gone. Unfortunately, domestic violence is still prevalent in NZ society but it's more out in the open now, not hidden behind closed doors. We recognise and actively discourage it as society. We are slowly changing for the better. Gang culture has grown but it's still very rare to see it in public. 😀👍
I always break when Grace is sat in the bath and you can see not just the blood on the sheets, but on the bathroom floor too it's just harrowing. i watched this film last night and when she's cowering on the floor as jake is standing over her at the house party- i was in floods of tears, her utter helplessness is just overwhelming. I first saw this film when i was way too young- at about 10yrs old- and i come from a very harsh, hard drinking family and i was always writing stories just like grace so i identified so strongly and still do. this is one of those unforgettable films.
Beth tells Jake he's a slave to his anger, a slave to his fists, and then at the end she almost literally weaponized him against Bully. This movie partially traumatised me as a kid, but I see it more as a foundational movie for me. It's a great teaching tool for the power and use of anger, but the danger if it's allowed to control you. You can use anger as a tool, and when used right it's a great thing(like the final beatdown). But it's easy to be intoxicated by it. easy to let anger rule you, and when it does it will destroy you.
I can’t remember if it was this review or a different one (haven’t finished watching it) but I remember one one pouting out that when Gracie was found hanged Jake did nothing, someone else had to come and cut her down, and pointed out that, in an actual emergency, where he couldn’t use anger or fists, Jake was COMPLETELY USLESS.
Absolutely agree and I think I've pointed that out a couple times too. When anger can't help, Jake is completely lost and I honestly love that piece of storytelling.
One of the most Powerful films and performances I have ever saw.remember seeing it for the first time about 97.was blown away by the realistic scenes and acting.brouggt up in Glasgow was surrounded by this type of culture.
I had issues at University in Australia when I tried to explain that Jake was a tragic character and was more 3 dimensional than any bad guy and he did actually love his wife, but was too many demons in the depths of his heart to be a good man. Needless to say I more or less got called a rape sympathiser. If Jake was just an outright bad guy, you would not care one bit about him, and to some degree, even though so many of his actions in this movie are wrong, he is a victim of his own doing. You can imagine he was probably this happy smiling kid growing up until the realisation of who he was and where he came from crushed his spirits and he just turned out the way he does here. At least the sequel gives him a chance to redeem himself.
@@HorrorFreq Its okay for the most part. But nowhere near as good as this one. Jake is great in it as always, but the producers or Director or whoever, tried to "Hollywoodise" it more in places, adding a sex scene, a action build up scene, it missed the point of the original and what made it good. The movie is called 'What Become of the Broken Hearted".
@@jrs4516 Yeah, and for the most part his youngest kids were happy and smiling. Its the teens who were doing it less so. I believe it happened this way too.
I love this movie but it is not for the faint of heart. Ive had several people I recommended this movie to that just could not finish it. Disheartening and extreme violent but this movie hits you in the gut with its dark drama. Highly recommend
First time commenter, long time subscriber. Can’t believe you reviewed this film, was so surprised. Even after having seen the film multiple times, it’s still an uneasy watch but I guess that’s what makes the film so outstanding. In a nutshell, my interpretation of the film is that it’s a cautionary tale about lost hopes and dreams, paralleled with the parents, and obviously the kids, and then becoming a product of their environment creating a cliche cycle. Knowing the violent subject matter, it’s still considered a classic film that stands the test of time, in the sense that its one of the great if not greatest film achievements to come out of little ol’ New Zealand, and I’m glad you guys acknowledged that in the review; consequently it’s ended up being the most quotable NZ film of all time. Thanks for the great review.
This is such a great film. I remember that my Mom had borrowed the VHS from a friend of hers and told me that I needed to watch it. Parts of it are super hard to watch. But, an amazing movie nonetheless.
I went to Star Wars Celebration II in Indy right before "Attack of the Clones" came out. Temuera Morrison was there. During a Q&A, several people asked him questions regarding "Once Were Warriors" which was the first I heard of it. I seen it afterwards and I agree with your review. It was really good, but hard to watch. The coolest thing was when Temuera and Daniel Logan (Boba Fett) did the Maori Haka (the ceonial dance you brought up in the review) on stage. It was so cool! I was so lucky to have seen it. Thanks for the great review!
I saw this movie in the late 90s on VHS as a rental. It blew me away and stayed with me for years after I watched it. So many years later, I couldn't recall the name! Great review guys.
This movie raised awareness of what it was like to live in an urban city Māori home. .before 1992 it was legal for a husband to beat and rape his wife. .legal, but not right. .the voices of all women that suffered from domestic violence were finally heard. .laws were changed. .the unfortunate side effect of this movie is that many Māori men took the wrong message and began glamorizing and idolizing Jake 'The Mus'. .I was raised by a Mus, there's nothing glamorous about it.
The Heke home is filmed in actual state housing. Some cousins lived in an identical state home (in Wellington rather than Auckland - cousins had renovated interior with new carpet etc and they were very clean tenants) I remember visiting them once and sitting in the lounge and kitchen areas and getting very spooked by flashbacks of the film which I'd seen a number of times back then. One more thing: After this film came out, and still to this day among Maori around my age, it was very common for friends to say 'Cook me some eggs" and laugh.
Great discussion gentleman. I really appreciate how you both were able to understand and relate to the issues presented in this film in such a respectful way. Your commentary is really great. This movie made me cry.
@@Raidmasterprod I think it's good for people with serious issues of that nature. Also, victims of violence on what's truly happening to them. Giving a window into what they're all doing, kind of looking in the mirror moments.
You guys should check out another kiwi film called whale rider which was nominated for a Oscar for best actress.... And check out a movie called Boy which was directed by Taika Waititi.
I think this was the first 'adult' film I ever truly appreciated. By which I mean, I was a teenager when I saw it, and really up to that point the only films I liked were action films horror, comedies, that sort of thing. This was the first time I really realised that a film could be realistic, culturally and socially significant, and emotionally devastating. Basically, it made me realise a film could be art.
I am a new sub and have been enjoying these for the last few weeks. So glad to see this classic being reviewed. It's what introduced me to the social problems in Maori community. Please keep up the good work.
The reason they sing alot is because Maoris ALWAYS sing and are arguably the best singers in the world. Princess Diana had a Maori lady sing at her wedding
27:51 Man, I got emotional and I didn't even see the movie yet. You can just feel the intensity and the sadness in the scene from that reaction. Powerful stuff.
If you could hear Rena Owen’s scream in that moment. It might be among the most blood curdling screams I have heard in my life. It has been eight years since I discovered this classic, and it still has a lasting impact upon me that I will feel forever.
When Jake beats up the guy in the bar at the beginning of the film and says “you need to pay your respects” he wasn’t saying that the fella should respect the woman, he was saying that he should respect Jake.
Watched this film here in NZ with a mate,both of us kiwis.In the same room were people from Sweden,Germany,England,Spain,USA and Canada.Watching their reactions was priceless,at the end of the film,you could have heard a pin drop. The American asked, " are Maoris like this in NZ?".My friend laughs,and says " only some.This is just a normal day in south Auckland".I couldn't stop laughing.
Just watched it on youtube for a few dollars. As a kiwi who has seen just the edges of some of these elements, almost brought me to tears watching this and its not something I do often. Youth suicide in NZ is increasing slowly and the male maori suicide rate is double non maori. If you follow gang members or sympathisers open facebook accounts you will see the in jokes about finding fights on saturday nights at the pubs. There is something deeply unsettling about having so many disturbed individuals in society($billions), and we pay in a number of ways. On the other hand the bon ami , kareoke and sing alongs you experience are the opposite side of the coin. edit: I believe we struggle with meaning and identity, it doesnt have to be authentic but just something that appears fixed like an anchor.
Great review, really shows you both enjoyed this movie.For me personally i feel alot of good came from this in terms of shining light on the violence in many households in NZ and around the world at the time.I would also recomend this film but would give a warning about how violent it is.btw the pressing of noses is called the hongi-to me it is being connected with everything that is, comming together as one, a greating/welcoming. Cheers from NZ :)
There was a joke doing the rounds when this movie was released. In video shops around the world this movie could be found in the drama section. In NZ video shops it was found in the documentary section.
When I watched this film in the cinema, it reminded me of living in New Zealand - which at that point had been about half a dozen years before, I've lived in Australia ever since - in particular the locations. That being said, and having grown up in NZ, I've always got a bit of a soft spot for films from my homeland. If you really like this film, I would highly recommend a film from 2005 called "River Queen". Starring Samantha Morton, Keifer Sutherland, Cliff Curtis, Temuera Morrison and Stephen Rea! (It's a historical drama, set during the period of the Maori Wars, rather than the modern era as Once Were Warriors is.)
I don’t know if this is true but I feel like gorge Lucas might have read about the 28th battalion when casting tem as jango, a lot of other factions seem to have ww2 parallels.
To you guys and viewers its a great brutal movie, to alot of us maori/kiwi including myself this is our real life growing up, it sucked but we some of us learn to be good people, good parents, sadly there are those ones that put their whanau(family) through it all like a never ending circle, kia ora bros for reacting this movie, Savage is the latest one out, you guys needs to review that one too
I could not watch it again but everyone who is not a poorer original person should watch, I am now 62 and I have learned from personal experience, this violence and also the underlying pride and passion of warrior classes that are lost in the modern world
I had to watch this for a class, it was hard to watch. Nevertheless, the most memorable part was when Boogie went to the boys home & learned how to channel his anger through the Haka dance. I'm surprised that you know the movie. have you've seen the sequel?
I was probably too young to have watched this as a kid but I saw it on telly back when I was about 6 or 7. My dad watched it with me and tried gently to explain the darker scenes to me. I somewhat understood but again, should have watched it when a bit older. That said though, I didn't know the name of the movie until I was in university, I just remembered bits an pieces of it from when I was a kid and that although it was gritty I thought it was a great film. Not seen the sequels yet.
The speech at the end wasn't a telling off, it is a reminder of how far Jake has fallen. Maori are known as warriors full of mana (Spirit or pride), she is basically saying to Jake he is not a real man/warrior or a real Maori.
Tough movie to watch when you grew up with parents similar to Beth and Jake. All you wanted was a quiet normal life, but no. We could love our parents to death, even though we do, some of us really did have a crazy upbringing as we were in the middle of the wars that our mothers and fathers waged with each other. The constant arguing, and physical violence, the make up parties that last til the morning on school nights sometimes, and then a week or two later another argument starts and then a physical fight. This movie was kinda traumatizing for some of us that had a similar upbringing, no matter what race or gender, there was many kids that grew up having to deal with the wars that our parents waged against each other. We got through it and are still here everyone ✊🏼.
There was no Uncle Bully character in the book. She wrote in her notebook/diary she believed it was Jake who did "the deed", and he was too drunk to know for sure either way.
One of my favorite films. The book version is here on my shelf. Rena Owen is also in The clone wars movie with Temura. I saw them both one year at San Diego comic con and Temura acted just like Jake lol. I gues stardom gets to ones head sometimes. This film tore me apart to see that little girl in so much pain. The whole family really but sometimes it is like this. Thank you for reviewing!
Fun fact: Tem ( nicknamed Jake the mouse in Kiwi acting community because he too short for the role so had to wear platforms to appear taller, We never call Cliff Curtis only Uncle Bully no matter what movie or tv show he’s in, btw mean as review guys, nailed it with the “farken dead inside” comment
I only watched this movie for the first time in December last year. Of course I'd heard about it long ago. Talk about a heartbreaking movie. My last girlfriend is related to Temuera Morrison.
You guys missed the point. This was the story about the realism of alcohol abuse and domestic violence in NZ. This wasn't just a movie, it was trying to highlight some real issues within our society.... This isn't fiction, this isn't bullshit. THIS is the REAL life situation of many low income families in New Zealand....
Man as a native myself who've lived in a reservation, I lived through that kind of shit and saw how it broke families. This movie hit me very hard. One of the best and most heart wrenching movie I've ever watched.
Yeah it reminds me of my own family I'm sure you felt similar
The sad thing is that whether the colonial government of New Zealand saw it as such or not, by seizing the land of the Maori they also destroyed the tribal unit and the traditional way of life. Before the treaty, Maori had strong ties to their birthplaces and ancestry, shared living space with their whole family and lived by codes of honour and propriety in peace and war. But the imperious colonists with the weight of centralised government and modern technology could only see the traditional Maori ways as backwards and incompatible with civilisation and ended up displacing countless rural Maori, now deprived of their land and livelihood, into cramped housing, separated from their kin but still otherised by the dominant whites. A few generations of menial work, social isolation and loss of cultural identity later, you get this situation - a self-fulfilling prophecy that gives racists an excuse to patronise.
The most difficult thing for me as the descendant of immigrants to NZ that there is no going way to the way things were. Affirmative action is definitely a thing here, and sometimes the way it's implemented feel like, well, racially motivated handouts which are blind to the actual need of those receiving them. But on the other hand, there can be no doubt that the fate of Maoridom has been fraught with injustice and that there is a sense of debt. Perhaps it's a cope, but I see materialism and capitalism as being the driving force that now holds people down, and it doesn't care where they come from as long as they can be squeezed for something. The fat cats aren't looking out for the welfare of people who look like them; the more the poor fight each other for the scraps, the less attention is paid to the fact that people are begging for dollars in the same cities as those with more than anybody could ever need.
@@HavokTheorem pffffft, infanticide, slavery and cannibalism were rife among the pre colonial rat farmers
@@eugenemurray2708 you're a......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Kiwi here. When I was still in highschool ('98), Cliff Curtis was part of a thespian troop touring the country giving performances and doing workshops with students interested in acting etc. After the performance part infront of the assembled school, the actors did a Q&A session but everyone was only really interested in what Cliff/ Uncle Bully was up to. The school joker was given the mic (you could hear the schools disciplinary panel audibly groan when they realized who was about to pose the question).
"What was it like to get the bash from Jake the Muss?"- student joker
"Ha, well, you see- its this thing called 'acting'. I didn't actually get the bash ya cheeky bugger"- Cliff
He went on to tell us he was about to fly out to shoot a movie with George Clooney, Ice Cube and Mark Wahlberg and audition for movies with Johnny Depp and Arnold Schwarzenegger . None of us believed him at the time because those names seemed far to famous for lil ole kiwi boy but those movies ended up being Three Kings, Blow and Collateral Damage.
Cliff Curtis thought long and hard about his role as Uncle Bully. He was very concerned about the rape scene to the point where he consults with his nanny. Cliffs nanny said it was a story that needed to be told and show the very thing that was never spoken about in maori families. A brave and caring man. Arohanui (Big Love) guys.
Yep great actor
With the final scene of Beth giving the scene this is how I see it. She is talking about her people being noble, people that had Mana (Prestige/Powerful) and she was saying that she had fallen and lost herself but she was not going to take it anymore, she realized how bad he was and how pathetic he was, she saw him for what he really was and that was what made him vulnerable. If you know NZ fulture you would see this as a powerful message as she had power over him. That was powerful, a woman being strong was unheard of in NZ around that time the domestic violence was a huuuge problem. So this was very significant.
could not have said it better myself - answered their ignorance perfectly
This movie was awesome and heartbreaking....one of the best cries in cinematic history.
The scene where they discover what Grace has done reveals just how impotent Jake is in the face of a real crisis - one he can't solve with his fists. That moment brings home just how powerless he really is and his true weakness.
I don't remember what was his reaction to finding grace? I hated what happened to her especially so because she was so upbeat and a hopeful dreamer in the beginning of the film. Bully broke her spirit & it was sad to see it affect her response to her friend.
What the hell are you talking about?
@@allenbird3652 I'm guessing they are referring to the climax of the film as it were..Anyway the part I'm referring to of course is when they found Grace at the end and how when a situation that is something so tragically shocking and heartbreaking and in the face of such tragedy, He became essentially powerless because it's not a situation he can solve with his fists, which is how he handles almost any situation in his daily life and it's because of that his weakness showed in the sense that if he couldn't fight with his fists or anything physical he really had no idea how to handle such a devastating situation when it counted because it left him weak to the point of immobilization. That's what I got out of the comments I might be wrong and just my opinion! Hope everyone has a wonderful day! ✌
@@allenbird3652 "the hell" negative ned, even I understood what her comment meant. 🙄
A great analysis guys. The "touching of faces" is called a hongi and is a Maori greeting, symbolic of exchanging 'the breath of life' and invokes unity.
Yeah, basically the Maori equivalent of a warm handshake.
@@allenbird3652 probably closer to a hug. Anyone can shake a hand but it takes a certain amount of humility to look eye to eye and press noses/foreheads, plus a hand on the shoulder. A warm handshake will do me though :-)
Cliff plays two more parts in good NZ films, Whale Rider and The Dark Horse
@@allenbird3652 except you dont breath through your hands.
What is pukeko and kowhai
Great start to 2019. This film horrified me when I first saw it back in the 90s. As a child I witnessed my father abusing my mum although not as severely as depicted in this film but these scenes just devastated me. Such an incredible film. Being Polynesian myself I can strongly identify with a lot of it. It's very surprising to see you blokes reviewing this film. I'd always associated you both with reviewing fun films never serious. You did a good job! Keep up the great work!
Oh wow, we used to watch this often when I was growing up in Australia, one of the most gut-wrenchingly powerful films ever ... and I never noticed Cliff Curtis was in it! Mind blown ...
That Uncle Bully Beatdown scene is just as good as that beat down scene at the end of Midnight Express
Yea mate, spitting the tongue out was the same F#$K YEAH moment
In the book, there was not retribution scene. The family never find out that uncle Bully raped Grace and the story ends with her leaving and Bully is never punished. But the filmmakers did not want to end it that way, so they gave us the scene we got.
I was pretty sure in the book it was Jake that rapes Grace, but he’s blacked out drunk and can’t remember?
@@bexlyspeed You're right. In the book it was Jake who raped Grace. I was horrified when I read this.
@@kimberry2010 No you guys. In the book Grace only THOUGHT Jake raped her. implying that it wasn't him.
@drag0nfly_girl Yeah, something like that, but it is still different from the interpretation of Jake raping her.
@drag0nfly_girl that's what i took from the book too- that Grace was unsure of who had raped her, that there were so many men drunk off their heads that it could have been any one of them including her own father. she could walk past the man who did it any day or night and never know because they are all suspects who are capable of anything and already capable of turning a blind eye to so much other abuse.
As a teen age pakeha (white man) I lived in Otara in South Auckland, where the move was filmed. Around the same time the move is set.
I can tell you that there might be some Hollywood stylization, as in any move, but it’s not that far from true life. We did drink on big taverns with 5-600 men standing around drinking hard out. Not every tavern was as staunch as the one portrayed in the movie. But there was definitely a few I would not venture inside without knowing someone.
I once lived and worked in a small fishing village, Las Cuevas, on the north coast of Trinidad. There were some really tough characters in the village. Who were always looking for a fight when they got drink or high.
I found “Once we're Warriors” in a video store and invited all the older teen agers and a few of the tough men "to watch a move from where I come from, New Zealand".
Once they got pass all the swearing, which there is surprising little of in Trinidad, they were just blown away by the move. After a few minutes into the move there was complete silence until the end when everybody just got up and walked out completely stunned.
Definitely one of the most impactful moves I’ve ever seen.
I heard the actual the book was set in Rototua. Is Roturua like that?
@@dangerislander
It was filmed and set in Otara in South Auckland.
No, that drinking culture is long gone.
Unfortunately, domestic violence is still prevalent in NZ society but it's more out in the open now, not hidden behind closed doors.
We recognise and actively discourage it as society.
We are slowly changing for the better.
Gang culture has grown but it's still very rare to see it in public.
😀👍
@@dangerislander it was set in Auckland not Rotorua.
@@tinalouise1764 I'm talking about the original book. It's actually based on a real street in Rotorua.
I always break when Grace is sat in the bath and you can see not just the blood on the sheets, but on the bathroom floor too it's just harrowing. i watched this film last night and when she's cowering on the floor as jake is standing over her at the house party- i was in floods of tears, her utter helplessness is just overwhelming.
I first saw this film when i was way too young- at about 10yrs old- and i come from a very harsh, hard drinking family and i was always writing stories just like grace so i identified so strongly and still do.
this is one of those unforgettable films.
Beth tells Jake he's a slave to his anger, a slave to his fists, and then at the end she almost literally weaponized him against Bully.
This movie partially traumatised me as a kid, but I see it more as a foundational movie for me. It's a great teaching tool for the power and use of anger, but the danger if it's allowed to control you. You can use anger as a tool, and when used right it's a great thing(like the final beatdown). But it's easy to be intoxicated by it. easy to let anger rule you, and when it does it will destroy you.
I can’t remember if it was this review or a different one (haven’t finished watching it) but I remember one one pouting out that when Gracie was found hanged Jake did nothing, someone else had to come and cut her down, and pointed out that, in an actual emergency, where he couldn’t use anger or fists, Jake was COMPLETELY USLESS.
Absolutely agree and I think I've pointed that out a couple times too. When anger can't help, Jake is completely lost and I honestly love that piece of storytelling.
One of the most Powerful films and performances I have ever saw.remember seeing it for the first time about 97.was blown away by the realistic scenes and acting.brouggt up in Glasgow was surrounded by this type of culture.
Yes my friend
Even New Zealand has it's skeletons despite its pure reputation ✌
I think the scene at the end was meant to demonstrate ,beth knows where she is now and also where she's going,I think it was perfect
I had issues at University in Australia when I tried to explain that Jake was a tragic character and was more 3 dimensional than any bad guy and he did actually love his wife, but was too many demons in the depths of his heart to be a good man. Needless to say I more or less got called a rape sympathiser. If Jake was just an outright bad guy, you would not care one bit about him, and to some degree, even though so many of his actions in this movie are wrong, he is a victim of his own doing. You can imagine he was probably this happy smiling kid growing up until the realisation of who he was and where he came from crushed his spirits and he just turned out the way he does here. At least the sequel gives him a chance to redeem himself.
There's a sequel? Oh, I must find that.
rather than being a happy smiling kid, he quite likely had a childhood similar to his own children
@@HorrorFreq Its okay for the most part. But nowhere near as good as this one. Jake is great in it as always, but the producers or Director or whoever, tried to "Hollywoodise" it more in places, adding a sex scene, a action build up scene, it missed the point of the original and what made it good. The movie is called 'What Become of the Broken Hearted".
@@jrs4516 Yeah, and for the most part his youngest kids were happy and smiling. Its the teens who were doing it less so. I believe it happened this way too.
@@HorrorFreq it's called what became of the broken hearted.
The best cry in movie history. Rena Owen as she finds Beth and holds her lifeless body. I got teary eyed just watching you guys talk about that scene
I love this movie but it is not for the faint of heart. Ive had several people I recommended this movie to that just could not finish it. Disheartening and extreme violent but this movie hits you in the gut with its dark drama. Highly recommend
First time commenter, long time subscriber. Can’t believe you reviewed this film, was so surprised. Even after having seen the film multiple times, it’s still an uneasy watch but I guess that’s what makes the film so outstanding. In a nutshell, my interpretation of the film is that it’s a cautionary tale about lost hopes and dreams, paralleled with the parents, and obviously the kids, and then becoming a product of their environment creating a cliche cycle. Knowing the violent subject matter, it’s still considered a classic film that stands the test of time, in the sense that its one of the great if not greatest film achievements to come out of little ol’ New Zealand, and I’m glad you guys acknowledged that in the review; consequently it’s ended up being the most quotable NZ film of all time. Thanks for the great review.
This is such a great film. I remember that my Mom had borrowed the VHS from a friend of hers and told me that I needed to watch it. Parts of it are super hard to watch. But, an amazing movie nonetheless.
I went to Star Wars Celebration II in Indy right before "Attack of the Clones" came out. Temuera Morrison was there. During a Q&A, several people asked him questions regarding "Once Were Warriors" which was the first I heard of it. I seen it afterwards and I agree with your review. It was really good, but hard to watch.
The coolest thing was when Temuera and Daniel Logan (Boba Fett) did the Maori Haka (the ceonial dance you brought up in the review) on stage. It was so cool! I was so lucky to have seen it. Thanks for the great review!
I saw this movie in the late 90s on VHS as a rental. It blew me away and stayed with me for years after I watched it. So many years later, I couldn't recall the name! Great review guys.
This movie raised awareness of what it was like to live in an urban city Māori home. .before 1992 it was legal for a husband to beat and rape his wife. .legal, but not right. .the voices of all women that suffered from domestic violence were finally heard. .laws were changed. .the unfortunate side effect of this movie is that many Māori men took the wrong message and began glamorizing and idolizing Jake 'The Mus'. .I was raised by a Mus, there's nothing glamorous about it.
I really think this is one of your best ever reviews thanks guys
The Heke home is filmed in actual state housing. Some cousins lived in an identical state home (in Wellington rather than Auckland - cousins had renovated interior with new carpet etc and they were very clean tenants) I remember visiting them once and sitting in the lounge and kitchen areas and getting very spooked by flashbacks of the film which I'd seen a number of times back then.
One more thing: After this film came out, and still to this day among Maori around my age, it was very common for friends to say 'Cook me some eggs" and laugh.
Not just Māori, some kiwi men (Pākehā and Māori) seem to think it's funny to tell a woman 'cook me some eggs'
We do it in parody bro, relax
Great discussion gentleman. I really appreciate how you both were able to understand and relate to the issues presented in this film in such a respectful way. Your commentary is really great. This movie made me cry.
I think this film should be shown at anger managment courses, psychology classes and to teenagers should be mandatory.
I saw this movie months before I graduated High School, and I can say with little hesitation that I was not the same kid after seeing it.
@@Raidmasterprod Did it change you for the better?
@@wayneshilcock3027 in the long run… it did.
@@Raidmasterprod I think it's good for people with serious issues of that nature. Also, victims of violence on what's truly happening to them. Giving a window into what they're all doing, kind of looking in the mirror moments.
You guys should check out another kiwi film called whale rider which was nominated for a Oscar for best actress.... And check out a movie called Boy which was directed by Taika Waititi.
A great start to the year guys! I lived in New Zealand for a year; great place.
I think this was the first 'adult' film I ever truly appreciated. By which I mean, I was a teenager when I saw it, and really up to that point the only films I liked were action films horror, comedies, that sort of thing. This was the first time I really realised that a film could be realistic, culturally and socially significant, and emotionally devastating. Basically, it made me realise a film could be art.
I am a new sub and have been enjoying these for the last few weeks. So glad to see this classic being reviewed. It's what introduced me to the social problems in Maori community. Please keep up the good work.
The reason they sing alot is because Maoris ALWAYS sing and are arguably the best singers in the world. Princess Diana had a Maori lady sing at her wedding
@Barbara Kuru Kiri te kanawa is the ladys name
@@elijahmaoate2534 Dame Kiri, lol. Temuwera is the nephew of Sir Howard Morrison
an amazing singer.
They all should have got an Oscar award for that movie
27:51 Man, I got emotional and I didn't even see the movie yet. You can just feel the intensity and the sadness in the scene from that reaction. Powerful stuff.
If you could hear Rena Owen’s scream in that moment.
It might be among the most blood curdling screams I have heard in my life. It has been eight years since I discovered this classic, and it still has a lasting impact upon me that I will feel forever.
Damn, this movie is a blast from the past. I remember watching it on IFC like twenty years ago.
When Jake beats up the guy in the bar at the beginning of the film and says “you need to pay your respects” he wasn’t saying that the fella should respect the woman, he was saying that he should respect Jake.
Wow! I never thought of it that way. Great insight
Watched this film here in NZ with a mate,both of us kiwis.In the same room were people from Sweden,Germany,England,Spain,USA and Canada.Watching their reactions was priceless,at the end of the film,you could have heard a pin drop.
The American asked, " are Maoris like this in NZ?".My friend laughs,and says " only some.This is just a normal day in south Auckland".I couldn't stop laughing.
There are communities like this in every country. Some of the details are specific to NZ, but the cycle of poverty and violence is not.
@@densityboy very true.
Lol a bit unfair bro but I get it 🤣
Cliff Curtis didn't do so bad out of this either: Training Day, Game Of Thrones as well the new Avatar.
He wasn’t in Game of Thrones but he was in Die Hard 4.0.
He plays a lot of Mexican type characters as well haha
@@markdavidwatene161 and a Arab in 3kings
Awesome in Columbiana..Definitely a must watch
Keisha castle Hughes was on GoT....one of Oberyns daughters
Just watched it on youtube for a few dollars. As a kiwi who has seen just the edges of some of these elements, almost brought me to tears watching this and its not something I do often. Youth suicide in NZ is increasing slowly and the male maori suicide rate is double non maori. If you follow gang members or sympathisers open facebook accounts you will see the in jokes about finding fights on saturday nights at the pubs. There is something deeply unsettling about having so many disturbed individuals in society($billions), and we pay in a number of ways. On the other hand the bon ami , kareoke and sing alongs you experience are the opposite side of the coin.
edit: I believe we struggle with meaning and identity, it doesnt have to be authentic but just something that appears fixed like an anchor.
This is one of my favourite movies. The performances from Morrison and Owen were incredible. The soundtrack was also great.
Oh poor guy the funeral scene was moving it’s a tough one everything that led up too her death was brutal
seen this film shortly after it was released in 1994 ,,it is now 2021 an its still my number 1 favourite film off all time ...
I'm a Kiwi dairy farmer, got this pretty Welsh school teacher coming over for dinner tonight. Feel like I have to show her Once Were Warriors.
You fool baha
How did you go bro? Did she love it lol?
Did you show her your little taniwha
@@hansoloburger2322 "Whats a TANIWHA?" 🤣
@@Ricanae205 Craaack up 😂
Great review, really shows you both enjoyed this movie.For me personally i feel alot of good came from this in terms of shining light on the violence in many households in NZ and around the world at the time.I would also recomend this film but would give a warning about how violent it is.btw the pressing of noses is called the hongi-to me it is being connected with everything that is, comming together as one, a greating/welcoming. Cheers from NZ :)
Two things I know of this film is that it has Jango Fett in it and comedian Jim Norton loves this film.
Yeah man…Norton always recommends it.
This is definitely one show I’d love them to bring back as a mini tv series like they have done with karate kid - cobra Kai
Jake was mad at the Jedi for being smarter than him too.
~jake got issues man . . .
yeah. He lost his head.
@@sumthingwikked4257 ~lol~
This is legit. As a Maori myself this actually happens.
As always...nice editing and breakdown. Keep it going in 2019...Happy New Year!
Thanks for reviewing this guy's, Once again respect sent from New Zealand hope you guys had a good Xmas and New Years.
I watched Belief - the possesion of janet moses and it was disturbing but I couldn't stop watching. nz has amazing, heavy af films
Do a review on Night Breed. Great classic. Though haven't seen the director cut yet
Awesome movie
There was a joke doing the rounds when this movie was released. In video shops around the world this movie could be found in the drama section. In NZ video shops it was found in the documentary section.
When I watched this film in the cinema, it reminded me of living in New Zealand - which at that point had been about half a dozen years before, I've lived in Australia ever since - in particular the locations. That being said, and having grown up in NZ, I've always got a bit of a soft spot for films from my homeland.
If you really like this film, I would highly recommend a film from 2005 called "River Queen". Starring Samantha Morton, Keifer Sutherland, Cliff Curtis, Temuera Morrison and Stephen Rea! (It's a historical drama, set during the period of the Maori Wars, rather than the modern era as Once Were Warriors is.)
Savage has just come out another good NZ movie
Ahhhh my dad's favourite film. Native New Zealander he is :) You guy's gonna do What Becomes of the Broken Hearted as well?
I don’t know if this is true but I feel like gorge Lucas might have read about the 28th battalion when casting tem as jango, a lot of other factions seem to have ww2 parallels.
14:40 That dude who played Mr Bennett would have been great in Star Wars, those warrior moves are incredible.
The follow up movie is.
What Becomes of the Broken Hearted 1999.
Toa is the Māori word for warrior. The gang is a fictional placeholder for the Māori patch gangs in nz
In real life, Mongrel Mob or Black Power
I'm a simple man: I see a new Off The Shelf Reviews notification; I watch :)
Who would give this a thumbs down?
Two other New Zealand movies, with Cliff, worth checking out are Whale Rider and The Dark Horse
To you guys and viewers its a great brutal movie, to alot of us maori/kiwi including myself this is our real life growing up, it sucked but we some of us learn to be good people, good parents, sadly there are those ones that put their whanau(family) through it all like a never ending circle, kia ora bros for reacting this movie, Savage is the latest one out, you guys needs to review that one too
I could not watch it again but everyone who is not a poorer original person should watch, I am now 62 and I have learned from personal experience, this violence and also the underlying pride and passion of warrior classes that are lost in the modern world
Dude I can't watch this movie. Way too emotional. Too similar to things I saw as a kid.
Happy New Years guys, cheers for a wonderful 2019 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I had to watch this for a class, it was hard to watch. Nevertheless, the most memorable part was when Boogie went to the boys home & learned how to channel his anger through the Haka dance. I'm surprised that you know the movie. have you've seen the sequel?
~what became of the broken hearted? . . .
@@TheTonybudd Yes, I want them to review it. I haven't seen it yet.
i think the sequel is as important.Redemption.... Forgiveness.... Healing...
I was probably too young to have watched this as a kid but I saw it on telly back when I was about 6 or 7. My dad watched it with me and tried gently to explain the darker scenes to me. I somewhat understood but again, should have watched it when a bit older. That said though, I didn't know the name of the movie until I was in university, I just remembered bits an pieces of it from when I was a kid and that although it was gritty I thought it was a great film. Not seen the sequels yet.
The speech at the end wasn't a telling off, it is a reminder of how far Jake has fallen. Maori are known as warriors full of mana (Spirit or pride), she is basically saying to Jake he is not a real man/warrior or a real Maori.
Incredible film.
In saying that i don't think i'm doing it justice.
Unforgettable.
Somehow never seen this. Wasn't sure what to expect tbh.
I'll look it up. Watched Mandy tonight. Wow!!
Please make the review happen for Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev, Solaris, and Stalker! You guys do the best film reviews I've ever seen.👍
First review from Off The Shelfs in 2019
Once Were Warriors, Outstanding Movie! Great choice you guys!
This is the realest movie ever made
seeing those clips of the movie is still extremely scaring
Tough movie to watch when you grew up with parents similar to Beth and Jake.
All you wanted was a quiet normal life, but no.
We could love our parents to death, even though we do, some of us really did have a crazy upbringing as we were in the middle of the wars that our mothers and fathers waged with each other.
The constant arguing, and physical violence, the make up parties that last til the morning on school nights sometimes, and then a week or two later another argument starts and then a physical fight.
This movie was kinda traumatizing for some of us that had a similar upbringing, no matter what race or gender, there was many kids that grew up having to deal with the wars that our parents waged against each other.
We got through it and are still here everyone ✊🏼.
Happy new year guys, thanks for the great review
There was no Uncle Bully character in the book. She wrote in her notebook/diary she believed it was Jake who did "the deed", and he was too drunk to know for sure either way.
One of my favorite films. The book version is here on my shelf. Rena Owen is also in The clone wars movie with Temura. I saw them both one year at San Diego comic con and Temura acted just like Jake lol. I gues stardom gets to ones head sometimes. This film tore me apart to see that little girl in so much pain. The whole family really but sometimes it is like this. Thank you for reviewing!
You guys are freaking awesome!
Keep the good work...
Fun fact: Tem ( nicknamed Jake the mouse in Kiwi acting community because he too short for the role so had to wear platforms to appear taller, We never call Cliff Curtis only Uncle Bully no matter what movie or tv show he’s in, btw mean as review guys, nailed it with the “farken dead inside” comment
That's gotta be some sturdy furniture at that rough as fuck pub, and those bouncers work for a living.
Boogie looks like the quarterback in college named Tua Tagovailoa.
By far my favorite review. Completely agree with every analysis. Like you said there is something that will resonate with any one being.
I only watched this movie for the first time in December last year. Of course I'd heard about it long ago. Talk about a heartbreaking movie. My last girlfriend is related to Temuera Morrison.
Alan Duff is a great author/novelist. Another great read of his is Maori the Crisis and the Challenge.
The only other movie I seen with Jake was a small independent movie produced by WWE. The Marine 2
you have just described the maori - scary as hell but fucking fun if they are on your side - immortal words mate
Have you done another kiwi movie BOY? Not sure if you can understand our maori humour lmao but its hilarious
So sombre as well if you look a bit deeper into the psyche of the dad and the affect it has on his kids. The teacher fuckin cracked me up as well
The sequel although not as good as the first is still a great film.
Temuera Morrison also plays Boba Fett.
That is some maaori comedic timing with the 'grace', been apart of many of them 🤣
There is another movie called What became of the broken hearted it carried on from Once were warriors.
You guys missed the point. This was the story about the realism of alcohol abuse and domestic violence in NZ. This wasn't just a movie, it was trying to highlight some real issues within our society.... This isn't fiction, this isn't bullshit. THIS is the REAL life situation of many low income families in New Zealand....
There is a second 1. Called "what becomes of the broken hearted". I think that's the name
I teared up through this review remembering the movie. Devastating story.
I just watched it, i have for so long been waiting on a good movie to watch, thank you!
Awesome breakdown and review guys
Exceptional review! Thank you!
The MUS
Aquamans old man😂🤣👌
Kool review bros ✌