Love my sportbikes don't think i will ever get a cruiser but these races are pointless its a performance machine built for speed against a machine built to relax and cruise and be comfortable on
Busas/ZX14s are not touring bikes.. They don't even fit into a sport touring bike category... Literally, the bike has the EXACT same seating position as a supersport, BUT since the bikes are so damn long you are stretched out more than supersports. I can give you a LIST of actual sport touring bikes, and you can go sit on everyone of them and I assure you that none of them will be less comfortable than the ZX14/Busa
Denys A harleys are made for different things than sport bikes but they are still fast and can beat most normal cars in a drag race (at least some of the modern ones) Riding a sports bike on a long road trip is painfull (it could be fun for a few hours but after riding for a longer time you would get very uncomfortable) and on a harley you can just relax and cruise around for hours Camparing a superbike to a harley is like comparing a ferrari to a bentley (both are fast but very different from each other) I still prefer sport bikes though but i'd also like to own a harley one day because those things are badass
Marek Misztal lol no ... the harley is just old technology ... you want comfort you buy a goldwing... and harleys are barely any faster than a ninja 300 which is very confortable ..
Craig Jones Jr what kind of dumb ass point is trying to be proved? That a superbike will outrun a 90 hp, 850 lb couch? Why don’t we see how the busa or R1 does against a turbo v-max or rocket 3, if you want to compare them to a cruiser?
I watched one set of Hardly Davidson races and about 4 of them either blew up or parts were a flyingOh and the times were not even turned on so you had no idea of how fast they were going. Gee I think they should have sped up the camera speed to make it at least make it look fast.
@@franklatin2411 Really nice ones sound damn good, but the timing that gives them that sound also stops them from making any real power. They shouldn't even work at all.
@@neomeg2232 dude dried oldhand bags still have some appeal to collectors... Even Harley riders wouldn't wanna fuck most of their beer gutted saggy old broads.
I'm a sportbike guy but I have to say unfair. Get some dedicated performance Harleys out there and suddenly it would look a lot closer. This video reminded me of when I was young and beating up my little brother. Too easy, not very fair.
M24A6 dont be stupid i said average super sport. A 103 cube Harley and 2017 R1 share the exact 83 ftlbs of torque with the R1 pushing double. Wanna compare a 103 cu to 34 cu R6 good try, plus my money is on the R6 still as the clutch probably would handle better than the Harley stock for stock
So an average super sport does not include an R6, now that sounds pretty stupid. I see you picked a 103 ci from a 2016 Harley which is actually 95 ft lbs instead of the 2017 Harley which is 100 ft lbs. and you do realize a trailer could be about another 500+ lbs of weight that you expect an R1 to tow.
and both are made for different things, i like both, but i prefer a sports due to speed, i like going really fast in the shortest time possible, but, if i were to travel cross country i would pick a cruiser any day of the week, people often forget you can like both types of bikes.....
Let me tell you, mad respect to the Harley guys for coming out and running them. Any time you go to the drag strip, you really don't have a choice as to who you race, unless you set it up before hand. It's about running what ya got, not about winning every race against the next Street Rossi or Ricky Gadston. I had a 350Z that took a month of Sunday's to get to the end of the 1/4 mile and burnt up the clutch because the guy next to me in his rat rod was so loud, I couldn't hear my car banging off the limiter! Whereas my H2 has launch control and will smoke any and everything else that I own! You go you have fun, make new friends, you break stuff and you learn. We laugh because their slow, but I always take to heart that on any given Sunday anyone could lose, that's why we line them up and race.
Seaside Strangler When the sportbike rolled through the finish, the Harley was in a far different place. Do you now get the joke? Were you one of the guys who refused to party on January 1st 2000 because technically the new century didn't begin until 2001?
Funny thing is, some Harley riders really do think their bikes are fast. I encounter them when I ride and they try race me when I'm just passing them at a normal speed as opposed to normal sport bike speed. So then I have to down shift and throttle up to show them I wasn't racing. I had one try race me in my wife's 4 cyl Accord sport and we were faster. They get butt hurt when people pass them and their precious hog.
A combination of long range cruising ability, and the ability to pass just about any car any time i want is all I need. If I wanted to stunt around and run from cops, I'd get a sport bike.
The worst is the idiot Hogs that won’t pull over for you to make a courteous pass on a bike that can actually turn and move. Sometimes I’ll stuff them on a corner entrance because if I’ve been behind you for 10 minutes and you’re riding the center line just to be a dick, you get what you deserve. Get the fuck out of the way.
Hell yeah I love blasting past them, hearing their couging wheezing hog rev trying to catch up. lol yeah right. 800lbs and 70 hp and your fat gut to boot. What a macho dude. lol
As a Harley rider who does this...it’s just that it’s hard not to try. I know 100% that my bikes not a sport bike but goddamn it I still try like fuck !!!! It’s still fun to try. You haven’t out smarted every Harley rider in existence!!! We know sport bikes exist. You can get a used one for like a couple grand.
@@dr.jiIIaIicecooper2587 Stretch and lowered is obvious, it's probably a bit faster cause you can launch better plus a tune, exhaust, possibly some other mods. It shouldn't be too far from magazine numbers his run wasn't abnormally fast. I can also tell it's the same generation as from '05 but I can't tell if it's a 600RR or 1000RR. What's the giveaway on that? Because pretty much everything looks the same and you'd need to be standing next to it to notice the difference in presence. The mid fairing might be slightly different but I can't tell, what are you using to tell em apart?
@@ihateeverything3972 It doesn't look the same as 600. 1000 is bigger and wider Front, fairings, tail and swingarm all look different They sound different too
People keep commenting on " what's the point " . In the 70's I used to go to our local track once a month and " compete " in races called run what you brung (sic.). I had a 1969 Plymouth station wagon with a 318 in it. I knew I wasn't going to win ( and I never did ) but I had fun and I would always try to beat my personal best time, effectively racing myself. I can't swear I'm right of course but I suspect that is the point, at least for the Harley rider.
John Lane don't expect todays stupid kids to understand that not everything has to be a competition, they are way to dumb to even realize how pathetic their way of thinking is..
Mister Noname no it’s not kids all the time it’s grown up people that take shit wayy too serious, I’m not a kid but I have seen how other adults talk to kids
@@foxthooot5090 You seem to either had a stroke just now making that comment. Or you skipped english class. Btw the kia soul has a G4GC motor that can handle 8 psi of turbo boast stock. It's actually a sleeper.
T M my phone did have a stroke, it’s an iPhone 6+ with a defect, and bro, Kias are forever the peasants in automobiles, although they made a few cool cars, and the fact that the Stinger GT has a different badge in Korea, they’re still Kias
Got a Superglide new. I wish they would have let me test ride it first. Terrible front breaks that i had to upgrade, rear breaks not much better, terrible rear suspension i had to upgrade, ran lean and poorly from the factory until i reprogrammed it. Three separate oil baths? That went out in the early 1970's. I would think that a "premium" brand would be better. I did the work myself and it still cost over $2000 to get it running and stopping minimally acceptable. In 2018 there is no brand loyalty any more and younger people won't accept product fails like that. There's no reason to.
Any "community" who would shun someone because they don't ride an "accepted" bike is not a group of people i'm interested in. And to all the typical Harley riders out there... TAKE A SHOWER.
Jimmy JimJim It's where you live. My 09 superglide has none of those problems (pretty modern bike), my brothers 2016 lowrider has none of those problems (pretty modern bike) I think you bought a used pos, and you're just here to push a false agenda. Whatever, don't worry though. I just meant to make that first statement, (not attack you) since anyone who actually is in depth with the brand knows how full of it you are. So I'm out have a good life.
That's what i was thinking about. Not everyone go to a drag strip or a track to be the best. Some racing agaisnt themselves and having fun. Because you can't push yourself that hard on the road, Safely and legally.
People here are criticizing Harley , idk why people do not understand the difference between a sports bike and cruise ,bobber, commuter, chopper, tourer. Every bike is not meant for speed!
Yup that's I dont understand too why people hating so much I have both type of bikes R1 and fat bob I never compared them which is good or not For long journeys I always prefer Harley And IF for fun in town R1 is good
@lazer tag Haha yeah may be but not every Harley rider think like that because I know my bikes limit I post one video when one Harley rider start racing with me without even letting me know that he going to punch but I just shift one up then he just eating my dust lolz
Roy Batty, I presume your referring to Buell's handling slightly better cornering then Harley's. I think the only Buell with half decent horse power is the 1125 lol
meefking8404 1125s were decent... they didn’t have the top end of the inlines but they had enough mid range and low torque to take most 1000s in a 1/4 mile if you were caught slacking ... Which is a good amount of riders it seems these days listening to them take off at a red light
@@Texarmageddon Unfortunately there's definitely plenty of truth in that. Ultimately it was several factors. That, Hero's fuckery, Erik's refusal to do a mass market mid-level bike, and just his generally bad business sense. By all accounts he's and asshole and a shitty businessman. But god dammit did he make some kick ass bikes.
I remember my old boss asking me what my 2005 GSXR600 did in the quarter and I told him 10.1-9.9 off the factory floor. Before that he used to race fully built drag Harleys (sponsored and all, apparently) and he said his fastest time was 10.3. Honestly, I was somewhat blown away. 1000s of dollars on a bike for it to still perform lower than the slowest of super sports? Offered to let him take it for a ride and he declined. Can only imagine his reaction to the R1 I'm about to buy
I just got a stage 1 on my 2012 Fat Boy (intake exhaust and super tuner)(103). It definitely woke it up a noticeable amount but it's not "fast" by any means. Not bad from 0-60 but after that it is pretty whimpy compared to a rocket. It doesn't even have enough power to go over about 115. If I upgraded to stage 2, 3, or 4, I imagine it would bump it up a lot more but rockets are just geared for speed period. I'm not concerned with racing anyone, I just like the look and sound most of all.
Nope - HD is about 80% Chinese - about 5% Japanese - they are getting their electronics developed by Honda as HD ain't that good figuring out technology and how to build proper motorcycle electronics - and about 15% American...
So.. in other words, the stuff that actually makes it "go"... is still... you guessed it... made NOT in the USA. No confusion here, golly the stuff that actually matters (like electronics) is made in Japan! So what about the overweight 1930's technology frames, it does make sense to make those lower tech- items (like the frames)in the USA. Considering something like 75% of a Toyota Camry car for the North American market is sourced in North America, does it matter? The term "assembled" in America is still far more accurate - making bold claims about how much makes no sense... not in a global market. Parts come from everywhere in the world now (PS which is why Trump's absurd policy of scrapping free trade and implementing tariffs everywhere will ultimately hurt the US economy significantly). Electronics from Japan, Australian wheels, Italian brakes, USA frame, and nearly everything else from China, etc etc. who cares in a global market. Don't; worry HD fans, being majority produced outside of the good ol' US of A, including being "made in China" is also no longer a bad thing. You pay Chinese manufacturer's for quality assurance of their products. That is why you can pay for a 3.99 watch or a $3999 dollar watch, but guess what; the same watch parts are majority still-made in China and come out of the same factory! There is a very good reason where "single sourced" makers, never say exactly how much of "their" product is actually sourced from their own country... Switzerland and all their ballyhoo about "Swiss-made" comes to mind. Chinese manufacturing has evolved from the days of yesteryear. It is so American ego to slam "Chinese junk" when there clearly is a reason it is made there. You pay the Chinese under contract not for the part but the quality assurance process applied in the making of it. Not saying that made in China parts on an HD is a bad thing - for a 29,000 new bike, that should pay for a lot of Chinese QA...
They put a heavy ass luxury bike next to a Hayabusa that was set up for drag racing. IDK what they thought was gonna happen. It's like putting a Rolls-Royce against a drag racing modded r35.
Watched this video again... PS did not notice the lovely red ZX-12 at the end; that is a nice machine! His 9.4 is a very good time; likely mild mods only with a stretched arm, and it looks like he could run mid-low 9 runs all day long... Still prefer a ZX-14 however.
JimWakable Ever see the “Silver book”? Shows the designing and stages of the 12R design to reality. There’s pics of the 14 in it they were literally designed side by side they just hung onto the 14 design few more yrs and refined it. They knew it’d be the king daddy when they launched it. The 12 was rushed out to compete with the Busa an it turned into magic 🤘🏻
Don't disagree, hey listen I do like the ZX-12 as well, one of the few bikes with aerodynamically purposeful fins that actually stabilize and provide downforce at speed.
I read a lot of hate to Harley motorcycles, those bikes are not made for Racing, their purpouse is a constant speed on Highway. Obviously, a sport bike, It's made for Racing.
I bought a used Harley drove it for 6 years, didn't put any money into it and sold it for the same money I paid for it. I bought a used Honda drove it for 2 years and got about half of what I paid for it. Nothing against rice burners but it's a matter preference and I prefer a Harley because of the resale value. And I love the sound of a motor over something that sounds like an insect.
Some of these idiots hating on Harley's just cause the hell of it lmao. These bikes are for ride comfort. Not for going 0-100 in 2 seconds and fucking your back up in 3 hours.
This is like a nissan gtr racing a ford f-350 they have very different uses and fetures that make them perpose built ones guna give you sleek ergonomics high rpm's and top speeds well the other gives you utility comfort and torque still fun to watch the differences on a drag strip tho
Is anyone surprised? The best part is, you know every one of those Harley riders was like “yeah, she had too much power off the line so I had to back off ‘er a little”
Man the sportbike riders talk shit lol. So much hate.. Comparing a machine that's sole purpose is it go fast, to a machine that's not supposed to blow your back out when ridden across country. There is no comparison.
isaacebgdae Yeah I agree. Every side of the motorcycle community has their share of idiots who make harley and sport bike owners look bad but we all are the same on two wheels! I have an R6 and a Harley and both are equally as fun!
Fat Retard No I haven’t bro but it’s all bs. All motorcycles are cool and usually it’s the old lame insecure Harley riders who talk shit. I could care less what bike ur on because all of them are cool and if everyone was riding Harleys, the biking community would be lame
Brad Deh yeah you’re right, it’s the guys that just cant accept change, every bike is cool in its own way and good for its own purpose like a Panigale v4 probably wouldnt be great from new york to cali but a harley or a goldwing would be nice. My grandfather went 1100 miles on a goldwing there and back home
@lazer tag i guess there is a reason we dont know. Maybe to colect some money for kids with cancer or theyre just a club wanna probe harley vs harley. Or who knows but its an stupid idea made a race buza vs harley. Everybody knows the end of that before starts so therw is a reason behind sure of that
A lot of guys take their bikes to the track to see what their bike can do, or beat their best time, or have some fun. Doesn't matter if a 'busa is in the other lane or a go-kart. So while these races are certainly entertainment, it's not like the Harleys are showing up expecting to win. But a great video nonetheless!
ryvoltz uuuuuuhhhhhh hahahaha, you're a fucking dumb ass, kiddo. This aint no nhra drags. It's a typical run what you've got. I bet you ride in full gear to pick up groceries right. Typical metric fan boy.
I've already seen you're one of those imbeciles who think bikes with different number of cylinders can't be compared. And if you don't wear all your gear all the time, you're more of an imbecile than I thought you were.
I love sport bikes but when I’m old and my joints ache, I’m definitely gonna get a cruiser. Just gotta be faster than cars. Plus lanesplitting here in Cali 😝
Don't. My father owns a Honda VTC 1100cc Shadow and he has serious back and shoulder pain. He profoundly regrets buying that bike. Too much vibration, too heavy and cumbersome to maneuver easily with his weakened articulations. If you wanna buy an "old man bike", buy a BMW roadster, or if you're really tall, a trail.
@@dr.jiIIaIicecooper2587 they are in fact not and you are also in fact not from europe. you been shooting videos in the us for 6 years now, quite the vacation you got there mate.
People dont even know why they buy Harleys. They think people will think their cool...worthless bikes. Triumph Tiger xc 12000....o-60 1st gear. 2 seconds with knobbies. Moral of story is don't be a sheep
They buy a Harley because of the Torque... Which gives a Harley the ride it is... It's a powerful motorcycle that has ALOT more torque than any sportbike. Sport bikes are made for racing...(sport) Harleys are cruisers.... (cruising) This is apple's and oranges!
@@iunnox666 it still doesn't come close to torque of a Harley... Which is the whole reason people ride them! You will never understand until you ride one!
@@spoom937 ridermagazine.com/2018/04/06/2018-harley-road-glide-ultra-vs-indian-roadmaster-vs-yamaha-star-venture-tc-comparo-review/ Harley has the least torque, I'll bet this is true across their entire product range in comparison with other brands.
Because maybe it's a preference.. like people who buy muscle cars over imports.. or buying a supercar instead of a hypercar... not everyone buys a vehicle for speed, sometimes they enjoy the vehicle. If you can't understand that I feel sooo bad for you. Not that it matters how fast they are, unless you're on a track you'll never get to experience all the vehicle can give you. 🤷
The body language of the Harley bikers reads "Why the f*** am I doing this?"
Ikr
Was probably those guys who wanted to drag though
harleys are many things....but fast.....idk
You should get a Nobel prize for that
And d body language of the sports bike rs reads " I am gonn smash d hell outta ya".😁
This is like watching Floyd Mayweather fighting Elton John.
That would be even tho....mike Tyson vs Elton John *
or Mike tyaon vs Justin bieber
Lol
Elton is in his 70s now, I'm not sure if he would still be able to beat mayweather?
aluisious HAHAHAHA😂😂😂 kill it!
Love my sportbikes don't think i will ever get a cruiser but these races are pointless its a performance machine built for speed against a machine built to relax and cruise and be comfortable on
Mohammed Gangat thing is there are touring machines that are faster and just as comfortable to tour on...
Texarmageddon no there is not😂 well yes more comfortable but not faster
BOSS I don’t get what you are saying
Busas/ zx14s are touring bikes
Busas/ZX14s are not touring bikes.. They don't even fit into a sport touring bike category...
Literally, the bike has the EXACT same seating position as a supersport, BUT since the bikes are so damn long you are stretched out more than supersports.
I can give you a LIST of actual sport touring bikes, and you can go sit on everyone of them and I assure you that none of them will be less comfortable than the ZX14/Busa
Not a fair competition. They should have run the Harleys against fat guys on mountain bikes.
Harley vs dual sport
reptilesgamers00 Harley vs 300cc scooter
U basicly trying to say harleys are slower than 2 tortoise making babies🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This comment 🤣😂
🤣😂🤣😂
Harley is the perfect engineering to convert gasoline into noise and vibration
Deep Banerjee : Lol 🤣🤣
And to wee on the floor.
Suzuki hayabusa is the perfect engineering to convert gasoline into speed , noise and death
@@gerasimosawesome4182 : hahahahaha, good one
How about Ural))
When will they ever learn? Harleys make noise, not power.
Denys A harleys are made for different things than sport bikes but they are still fast and can beat most normal cars in a drag race (at least some of the modern ones)
Riding a sports bike on a long road trip is painfull (it could be fun for a few hours but after riding for a longer time you would get very uncomfortable) and on a harley you can just relax and cruise around for hours
Camparing a superbike to a harley is like comparing a ferrari to a bentley (both are fast but very different from each other)
I still prefer sport bikes though but i'd also like to own a harley one day because those things are badass
Marek Misztal lol no ... the harley is just old technology ... you want comfort you buy a goldwing... and harleys are barely any faster than a ninja 300 which is very confortable ..
@@marekmisztal2542 ..comparing a Ferrari to a Bentley? Please. more like comparing a Ferrari to a 1996 Nissan Sentra.
Denys A I think everyone knows that. Don't have to assume that the Harley rider expected to win and put a negative spin to the race.
Jarli is 💩
Who else was kinda thinking this would be a sort of sleeper motorcycle vid?
Lol nope just proving a point
I’m a sport guy but I was honestly hoping at least one of the HD’s might put up a fight
I mean, there's not much a Harley can do against a turbo bousa
I thought the dude at 3:00 had him for a moment there.
Craig Jones Jr what kind of dumb ass point is trying to be proved? That a superbike will outrun a 90 hp, 850 lb couch? Why don’t we see how the busa or R1 does against a turbo v-max or rocket 3, if you want to compare them to a cruiser?
Basically the rules of this race is if the Harley makes it to the finish line the same day as the sport bike Harley wins!
LMAO.
😂😂😂😂
Sofian Amor : That was Savage! 😂
Bahahahahahahahaha
I watched one set of Hardly Davidson races and about 4 of them either blew up or parts were a flyingOh and the times were not even turned on so you had no idea of how fast they were going. Gee I think they should have sped up the camera speed to make it at least make it look fast.
The Harleys made it to the end without breaking down, so for a Harley that is a victory.
Chalky Yes that was surprising, I just knew I would see a couple broken Harley’s
Are u butthurt or something? Harleys are really good quality wtf
Jesús Pérez Dávila yeah I’m confused what they are saying harleys don’t brake down it’s just that they are slow
@@the.bot.clan.6132 They dont have a reputation for being reliable
@@jesusperezdavila8430 harleys are not the worst but also not even close to reliable
3:31 Harley bike started way ahead but poor lad couldn't finish the line first😂
I think was a cbr that gave him a 5 second head start lmao. That harley went home mad af
not even ahead
😂🙌
😂😂😂
He didn't get a head start, its bracket racing. The slower vehicle goes first and you have to run closer to your dial in time than the other guy
'The Harley davidson" turn fuel into noise since 1903 🤣👍
5 Menit Dari Sekarang they don’t even sound good
@@franklatin2411 hahaha..
@@franklatin2411 Really nice ones sound damn good, but the timing that gives them that sound also stops them from making any real power.
They shouldn't even work at all.
@@franklatin2411 indo
@@t.t6 any bike can drive within the speed limit. It takes real engineering to turn fuel into noise /s
“Get a real bike” - some Harley rider
Real bike - Goldwing
"Ok. Time for bed grandpa."
3:00 I've seen this race before. The v rod performed well honestly.
(of course the sport bike won just giving credit to the v rod performance)
Yeah. I know the vrods fast but I was impressed by that. Its putting down drag numbers similiar to my mt09
Porsche designed the V-Rod engine.
Amazing what you can do with proper engineering and liquid cooling. Porsche outdid themselves with that bike.
It took a Busa to beat the V-Rod. The only Harley I respect.
Mousek801 that would be buell.
What we learned: harleys are slow AF.
One was almost quick, but then it wasn't.
One kinda wheelied.
on the one that kinda wheelied, I think the rider pooped.
Right. They are in fact cruisers.
Yeah but it raced a turbo busa. Soo anyone would of lost that race.
Lmao
David Estrada the Harley did have a solid launch and held with the busa until sheer power overtook him
3:01 was almost history in the making.
That's a v rod they are fast. Faster then my 600 for sure.
@@EnhancedChimp 600 what? Vrod trapped only 115. Most 600 sportbikes trap 130ish.
@@wade998 yeah. My naked traps much higher then the vrod
You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about
Harley riders only get dried up hand bags 😁
@@neomeg2232 dude dried oldhand bags still have some appeal to collectors... Even Harley riders wouldn't wanna fuck most of their beer gutted saggy old broads.
😂😂😂😂😂
Harleys are so slow, they should race against tractors.
Wow that was so clever, and by clever i mean you're a fucking idiot.
Which tactors will cut a 13.5 sec 1/4
@@droceretik tractors running Briggs & Stratton should do the trick.
Harley still making tractors
In Scotland they race tractors... Most of them will beat Harley's actually...
Tractors are useless in a race...
Duhh derp derp... wow..
So fucking clever.
@@poncoolride ?
How much tq does a 600 and 1000 put out? Oh better yet, hows the resale?
Thats true tractors do hold value...
@@mopar21 you know these guys are on a drag strip right? Opinions mean nothing when you constantly get your ass kicked.
I came here expecting sleeper content, poor harleys :( lmao
The dual sport also faster in Twisties compared to the almighty Harley
@@t.t6 well you dont get excited riding a moped do you
@@t.t6 yup and cruising makes an old man
I bet the dude on the full dresser had Lynyrd Skynyrd playing on his radio.
At least he has great music taste
And you had justin biber, lady gaga or some of the lil' gay mumblers LMAO
I'm a sportbike guy but I have to say unfair. Get some dedicated performance Harleys out there and suddenly it would look a lot closer. This video reminded me of when I was young and beating up my little brother. Too easy, not very fair.
...how about hook a camping trailer behind both of them to make it fair, right?
M24A6 still not fair power to weight ratio is the ultimate key average super sport still trumps Harley on torque numbers so not even the factor
So the R6 with torque of 45.5 will pull away from the Electra glide with a torque of 111. while pulling camping trailers.
M24A6 dont be stupid i said average super sport. A 103 cube Harley and 2017 R1 share the exact 83 ftlbs of torque with the R1 pushing double. Wanna compare a 103 cu to 34 cu R6 good try, plus my money is on the R6 still as the clutch probably would handle better than the Harley stock for stock
So an average super sport does not include an R6, now that sounds pretty stupid. I see you picked a 103 ci from a 2016 Harley which is actually 95 ft lbs instead of the 2017 Harley which is 100 ft lbs. and you do realize a trailer could be about another 500+ lbs of weight that you expect an R1 to tow.
Hardly Drivable.
Hardly Practical
Hardly Capable
Hardly Reliable
Rickertsred hardly works at the end of the day Harley’s are just fat shit sticks
Jarli is 💩
Hardly ableson
What's just match Harleys to Harley's. Then you'll have apples to apples.
There can only be a few flat earthers that think Harleys are fast though right?
Hamish Woollett So a bike that can go 100 is slow? I miss the point where you think that's slow. Narrow minded is all you are.
and both are made for different things, i like both, but i prefer a sports due to speed, i like going really fast in the shortest time possible, but, if i were to travel cross country i would pick a cruiser any day of the week, people often forget you can like both types of bikes.....
Boomsauce XX yeah 100 is pretty slow when a Hayabusa or R1 can hit mid 200's
Boomsauce XX yes 100 is slow
Boomsauce XX not slow, but not fast COMPARED to sports.
That busa rider rode it best, didnt bob up and down hilariously down the track
Last rider was best just little lift at begining looked fastest and was fastest
Let me tell you, mad respect to the Harley guys for coming out and running them.
Any time you go to the drag strip, you really don't have a choice as to who you race, unless you set it up before hand.
It's about running what ya got, not about winning every race against the next Street Rossi or Ricky Gadston.
I had a 350Z that took a month of Sunday's to get to the end of the 1/4 mile and burnt up the clutch because the guy next to me in his rat rod was so loud, I couldn't hear my car banging off the limiter!
Whereas my H2 has launch control and will smoke any and everything else that I own!
You go you have fun, make new friends, you break stuff and you learn.
We laugh because their slow, but I always take to heart that on any given Sunday anyone could lose, that's why we line them up and race.
Its all about winning!! Harley just cant compete with these bikes
2:28, the poor Harley barely finished in the same zip code.
Lol hard
Zip code doesn't change with time, it's a location.
Seaside Strangler That's right. Sportbike was way over there, and the Harley was way back there
You said hardly it "finished" in the same zip code, it finished at the same place the other bike did, just at a different time. Get it now?
Seaside Strangler When the sportbike rolled through the finish, the Harley was in a far different place. Do you now get the joke? Were you one of the guys who refused to party on January 1st 2000 because technically the new century didn't begin until 2001?
Funny thing is, some Harley riders really do think their bikes are fast. I encounter them when I ride and they try race me when I'm just passing them at a normal speed as opposed to normal sport bike speed. So then I have to down shift and throttle up to show them I wasn't racing. I had one try race me in my wife's 4 cyl Accord sport and we were faster. They get butt hurt when people pass them and their precious hog.
A combination of long range cruising ability, and the ability to pass just about any car any time i want is all I need. If I wanted to stunt around and run from cops, I'd get a sport bike.
The worst is the idiot Hogs that won’t pull over for you to make a courteous pass on a bike that can actually turn and move. Sometimes I’ll stuff them on a corner entrance because if I’ve been behind you for 10 minutes and you’re riding the center line just to be a dick, you get what you deserve. Get the fuck out of the way.
@@jayzeeshawn cept there's still sportbikes that are just as comfy as any cruiser. Hell, adventure bikes might as well be the 1-up to any cruiser.
Hell yeah I love blasting past them, hearing their couging wheezing hog rev trying to catch up. lol yeah right. 800lbs and 70 hp and your fat gut to boot. What a macho dude. lol
As a Harley rider who does this...it’s just that it’s hard not to try. I know 100% that my bikes not a sport bike but goddamn it I still try like fuck !!!! It’s still fun to try. You haven’t out smarted every Harley rider in existence!!! We know sport bikes exist. You can get a used one for like a couple grand.
You are comparing a bike that is made for comfort vs a bike thats sole purpose is 0-100 km/h as fast as posible. I am a sports bike guy.
yeah comfort with vibration
Yes harley sucks bbc-s
Only 3 buza riders knows how to punch from start
gsxr and r6 was funny
Turbo busas at that
That 600RR got a hell of a rider, he's putting up magazine numbers.
@@ihateeverything3972 That was lowered and stretched 1000RR
Far from magazine numbers
@@dr.jiIIaIicecooper2587
Stretch and lowered is obvious, it's probably a bit faster cause you can launch better plus a tune, exhaust, possibly some other mods.
It shouldn't be too far from magazine numbers his run wasn't abnormally fast.
I can also tell it's the same generation as from '05 but I can't tell if it's a 600RR or 1000RR. What's the giveaway on that? Because pretty much everything looks the same and you'd need to be standing next to it to notice the difference in presence.
The mid fairing might be slightly different but I can't tell, what are you using to tell em apart?
@@ihateeverything3972 It doesn't look the same as 600.
1000 is bigger and wider
Front, fairings, tail and swingarm all look different
They sound different too
Up next, a Honda C90 versus a Ninja H2R.
The only disadvantage of the Harleys over those Japanese bikes is just their outdated engineering, not their engine size.
People keep commenting on " what's the point " . In the 70's I used to go to our local track once a month and " compete " in races called run what you brung (sic.). I had a 1969 Plymouth station wagon with a 318 in it. I knew I wasn't going to win ( and I never did ) but I had fun and I would always try to beat my personal best time, effectively racing myself. I can't swear I'm right of course but I suspect that is the point, at least for the Harley rider.
John Lane don't expect todays stupid kids to understand that not everything has to be a competition, they are way to dumb to even realize how pathetic their way of thinking is..
In a sea of idiots, finally someone who gets it. Refreshing.
Mister Noname no it’s not kids all the time it’s grown up people that take shit wayy too serious, I’m not a kid but I have seen how other adults talk to kids
John Lane
You must be old now in your 60's.
look at those “real bikes”
duy phúc nguyễn Yeah, but people still like Harleys, i guess for some mid life crisis bad boy image appeal that has been drummed into them 😎
Says every sport bike rider LOLOLOL. Dude a race with a 4cyl against a twin is laughable.
Boomsauce XX You don't even know you have twin and v4 superbikes, idiot.
Yeah id rather stick to my R6 before ever going to a fucking harley. Shit id sell my R6 for a R3 before getting a fucking harley.
Anakin Skywalker Congrats. It's a personal choice and no one should have a problem with that.
Harley is just to enjoy long rides ... the super motorcycles were made to enjoy the tracks and the speed
Harley's are great if you like to spend time in the garage tinkering etc.
Or you can ride a Triumph Tiger even a BMW GS 1200, have even more comfort, power and versatility
@@RonJeremy514 and horrible motorcycle ;)
Joss there is nothing enjoyable about riding my 883 because of the vibration. Bolts also fall out.
Bassraider That's a matter of taste, but I do like how these look
A Harley Davidson couldn't out run a cement Truck !!!
You drive a Kia Soul dude usain bolt can beat that thing
lee faulkner says someone who drives a FUCKING KIA HAHAHAHAHA
do you are have stupid uhhh it’s me?
@@foxthooot5090 You seem to either had a stroke just now making that comment. Or you skipped english class. Btw the kia soul has a G4GC motor that can handle 8 psi of turbo boast stock. It's actually a sleeper.
T M my phone did have a stroke, it’s an iPhone 6+ with a defect, and bro, Kias are forever the peasants in automobiles, although they made a few cool cars, and the fact that the Stinger GT has a different badge in Korea, they’re still Kias
Why does every Harley driver look like he has congestive heart failure?
Because every HD riders are at that age
Hey look, a grown man acting like a child.
Stfu
Got a Superglide new. I wish they would have let me test ride it first.
Terrible front breaks that i had to upgrade, rear breaks not much better, terrible rear suspension i had to upgrade, ran lean and poorly from the factory until i reprogrammed it. Three separate oil baths? That went out in the early 1970's.
I would think that a "premium" brand would be better.
I did the work myself and it still cost over $2000 to get it running and stopping minimally acceptable.
In 2018 there is no brand loyalty any more and younger people won't accept product fails like that. There's no reason to.
Jimmy JimJim don't forget your buying an image and community when your buying a harley🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Any "community" who would shun someone because they don't ride an "accepted" bike is not a group of people i'm interested in. And to all the typical Harley riders out there... TAKE A SHOWER.
Jimmy JimJim Good story, how long did it take to make up Hahahahahaha. Take you and your bf back to never never land.
Not made up, all true. Obviously you've never ridden a modern bike.
Never never land? Whats that?
Jimmy JimJim It's where you live. My 09 superglide has none of those problems (pretty modern bike), my brothers 2016 lowrider has none of those problems (pretty modern bike) I think you bought a used pos, and you're just here to push a false agenda. Whatever, don't worry though. I just meant to make that first statement, (not attack you) since anyone who actually is in depth with the brand knows how full of it you are. So I'm out have a good life.
All these Haters 🤣
Ever consider, maybe they're just there to have fun lol ?
Most of them are 20 year olds who know nothing lol
That's what i was thinking about. Not everyone go to a drag strip or a track to be the best. Some racing agaisnt themselves and having fun. Because you can't push yourself that hard on the road, Safely and legally.
They hate people who have fun lol
Cruiser owners with cruiser bikes meant to cruise sure have some unique way of having fun while getting gapped in a strip.
..to each his own I guess.
Not hating, but c’mon man. these jokes are funny AF(and there’s some truth to them too). Don’t be too sensitive about it ;-)
3:01 scared me for a sec
Thanks for the video.
Now, I know that sports bikes are faster than cruisers.
And cruisers are more comfortable to ride than sports bike.
People here are criticizing Harley , idk why people do not understand the difference between a sports bike and cruise ,bobber, commuter, chopper, tourer. Every bike is not meant for speed!
Yup that's I dont understand too why people hating so much
I have both type of bikes R1 and fat bob
I never compared them which is good or not
For long journeys I always prefer Harley
And IF for fun in town R1 is good
@lazer tag Haha yeah may be but not every Harley rider think like that because I know my bikes limit
I post one video when one Harley rider start racing with me without even letting me know that he going to punch but I just shift one up then he just eating my dust lolz
That turbo Hayabusa can give a Ninja H2r a run for its money...I felt bad for that Harley though!! xD
Added irony that a Turboed Busa costs less money than a H2R
If Harley kept Buell around, this video would actually be interesting.
Roy Batty, I presume your referring to Buell's handling slightly better cornering then Harley's. I think the only Buell with half decent horse power is the 1125 lol
meefking8404 1125s were decent... they didn’t have the top end of the inlines but they had enough mid range and low torque to take most 1000s in a 1/4 mile if you were caught slacking ...
Which is a good amount of riders it seems these days listening to them take off at a red light
People in this thread need to go look up the EBR 1190RX. Was a legit panigale competitor before Hero fucked Buell over.
Remigus Ker gonna be honest .... Erik did that on his own... trying to start a brand and race in a competitive league was a double negative
@@Texarmageddon Unfortunately there's definitely plenty of truth in that. Ultimately it was several factors. That, Hero's fuckery, Erik's refusal to do a mass market mid-level bike, and just his generally bad business sense.
By all accounts he's and asshole and a shitty businessman. But god dammit did he make some kick ass bikes.
Hey you gotta give the cruisers some credit as they did surprisingly well against those sport bikes
Harleys could've raced between them, it would've been much funnier
I remember my old boss asking me what my 2005 GSXR600 did in the quarter and I told him 10.1-9.9 off the factory floor. Before that he used to race fully built drag Harleys (sponsored and all, apparently) and he said his fastest time was 10.3. Honestly, I was somewhat blown away. 1000s of dollars on a bike for it to still perform lower than the slowest of super sports? Offered to let him take it for a ride and he declined. Can only imagine his reaction to the R1 I'm about to buy
Do you have time slips to back up those numbers?
I just got a stage 1 on my 2012 Fat Boy (intake exhaust and super tuner)(103). It definitely woke it up a noticeable amount but it's not "fast" by any means. Not bad from 0-60 but after that it is pretty whimpy compared to a rocket. It doesn't even have enough power to go over about 115. If I upgraded to stage 2, 3, or 4, I imagine it would bump it up a lot more but rockets are just geared for speed period. I'm not concerned with racing anyone, I just like the look and sound most of all.
At the end of the day the Harleys still 40% Japanese
Nope - HD is about 80% Chinese - about 5% Japanese - they are getting their electronics developed by Honda as HD ain't that good figuring out technology and how to build proper motorcycle electronics - and about 15% American...
JimWakable Wrong but okay.
Don't confuse him with facts.
So.. in other words, the stuff that actually makes it "go"... is still... you guessed it... made NOT in the USA. No confusion here, golly the stuff that actually matters (like electronics) is made in Japan! So what about the overweight 1930's technology frames, it does make sense to make those lower tech- items (like the frames)in the USA. Considering something like 75% of a Toyota Camry car for the North American market is sourced in North America, does it matter? The term "assembled" in America is still far more accurate - making bold claims about how much makes no sense... not in a global market. Parts come from everywhere in the world now (PS which is why Trump's absurd policy of scrapping free trade and implementing tariffs everywhere will ultimately hurt the US economy significantly). Electronics from Japan, Australian wheels, Italian brakes, USA frame, and nearly everything else from China, etc etc. who cares in a global market. Don't; worry HD fans, being majority produced outside of the good ol' US of A, including being "made in China" is also no longer a bad thing. You pay Chinese manufacturer's for quality assurance of their products. That is why you can pay for a 3.99 watch or a $3999 dollar watch, but guess what; the same watch parts are majority still-made in China and come out of the same factory! There is a very good reason where "single sourced" makers, never say exactly how much of "their" product is actually sourced from their own country... Switzerland and all their ballyhoo about "Swiss-made" comes to mind. Chinese manufacturing has evolved from the days of yesteryear. It is so American ego to slam "Chinese junk" when there clearly is a reason it is made there. You pay the Chinese under contract not for the part but the quality assurance process applied in the making of it. Not saying that made in China parts on an HD is a bad thing - for a 29,000 new bike, that should pay for a lot of Chinese QA...
@@JimWakable engines are made in Milwaukee...
Lol 14+ seconds you can almost run that in a camary
Toyota Camry?
Poisoned Snake nah the Samsung camry
Lol you can’t even spell Camry
I had a Mazda Miata with a roots blower bolted on. Ran High 13's. I embarrassed a few Noisemakers.
I think you mean a Corolla
This was like competition between an engineer topper and a CA topper.
They put a heavy ass luxury bike next to a Hayabusa that was set up for drag racing. IDK what they thought was gonna happen. It's like putting a Rolls-Royce against a drag racing modded r35.
Ikr man
Imagine puting a h2r in there😂 harleys make noise, not power
4 bangers make HP not TQ.
@@mopar21 You don't need torque, that's what the gearbox is for.
@@emilmuhrman dumbest thing I've heard.
@@mopar21 Higher power but less torque in the engine will give higher torque at the wheel at the same speed. (Same size wheel)
@@mopar21 You obviously know jack shit about mechanics
Harley... for the man who never gives up.
Have you seen the new Harley! No not since second gear
Harley Davidson for every days, great bike
Haha.. And they pick the heaviest harley with all the tour pack to race against some sport bike.
I can beat those electra with my moped.
Watched this video again... PS did not notice the lovely red ZX-12 at the end; that is a nice machine! His 9.4 is a very good time; likely mild mods only with a stretched arm, and it looks like he could run mid-low 9 runs all day long... Still prefer a ZX-14 however.
JimWakable Nothing like a 12R. I’ve had an 03 for looong time best bike I’ve ever ridden 🤘🏻
I will not disagree the -12 is a legend,... to each their own, I prefer my -14 but hey the bikes are pretty closely related
JimWakable Ever see the “Silver book”? Shows the designing and stages of the 12R design to reality. There’s pics of the 14 in it they were literally designed side by side they just hung onto the 14 design few more yrs and refined it. They knew it’d be the king daddy when they launched it. The 12 was rushed out to compete with the Busa an it turned into magic 🤘🏻
Don't disagree, hey listen I do like the ZX-12 as well, one of the few bikes with aerodynamically purposeful fins that actually stabilize and provide downforce at speed.
I still have my blue '04 12R. I love it so much I refuse to get rid of it. I'm a heavy guy but I've mustered a 10.2 @ 141mph with it.
I read a lot of hate to Harley motorcycles, those bikes are not made for Racing, their purpouse is a constant speed on Highway. Obviously, a sport bike, It's made for Racing.
I agree. I am trying to understand why the Harley guys are trying to drag race at all.
@@dennissmith6783 probably just got fun
I had a buddy who’s Harley blew a block on the highway but not before blowing his oil lines lol
@@ItalianMetalHED Oil lines?
Fair race would be HD vs 125-500 cc bikes lol)
I bought a used Harley drove it for 6 years, didn't put any money into it and sold it for the same money I paid for it. I bought a used Honda drove it for 2 years and got about half of what I paid for it. Nothing against rice burners but it's a matter preference and I prefer a Harley because of the resale value. And I love the sound of a motor over something that sounds like an insect.
Finally a video for non bikers to understand the true difference in speed.
Harley is only for distributing News Papers early morning..
Why? My built 106 Road Glide runs 12s... I'm smart enough to know a stock sport bike will spank me all day.
Depends on what stock sport bike and the rider if you run 12s.. you may be able to beat some scrub on a 600 from a dig
Someone forgot to invite yam. He is the god of turbo busas
Poppin in dat Turbo busssa babee
The 20 car head start was so epic 🤣🤣
Some of these idiots hating on Harley's just cause the hell of it lmao. These bikes are for ride comfort. Not for going 0-100 in 2 seconds and fucking your back up in 3 hours.
Ofc Harley lose lol..idk why they wanna drag-race a sportbike..Harley is for cruisin and have a good time while sportbike is for the speedfreak 😂
All I see is harley hate here.... respect two wheels, any two wheels....
Justin It’s not all hate we excepted to see some sleeper hogs that’s all.
The harley just sounds like a huge fart
This is like a nissan gtr racing a ford f-350 they have very different uses and fetures that make them perpose built ones guna give you sleek ergonomics high rpm's and top speeds well the other gives you utility comfort and torque still fun to watch the differences on a drag strip tho
Is anyone surprised? The best part is, you know every one of those Harley riders was like “yeah, she had too much power off the line so I had to back off ‘er a little”
Imagine bringing a sleeper sofa to a drag strip 🥴😂🤣
Man the sportbike riders talk shit lol.
So much hate..
Comparing a machine that's sole purpose is it go fast, to a machine that's not supposed to blow your back out when ridden across country. There is no comparison.
isaacebgdae Yeah I agree. Every side of the motorcycle community has their share of idiots who make harley and sport bike owners look bad but we all are the same on two wheels! I have an R6 and a Harley and both are equally as fun!
isaacebgdae and brad deh but have you seen how many harley owners call sport bikes “girl bikes”?
Fat Retard No I haven’t bro but it’s all bs. All motorcycles are cool and usually it’s the old lame insecure Harley riders who talk shit. I could care less what bike ur on because all of them are cool and if everyone was riding Harleys, the biking community would be lame
Wonder why that brought a knife to a gun fight then
Brad Deh yeah you’re right, it’s the guys that just cant accept change, every bike is cool in its own way and good for its own purpose like a Panigale v4 probably wouldnt be great from new york to cali but a harley or a goldwing would be nice. My grandfather went 1100 miles on a goldwing there and back home
3:30 = Humiliation
*Спорт и Харлей это настолько разные мотоциклы, что даже дико их сравнивать но ооочень интересно :)*
Having a fast harley is like having a fast mule, it's well and good till someone on a hose comes along.
How do you seperate a Harley?
You just start it up, then it will handle the rest by itself. 😎👍
I really dont understand why you did this race.
Its just like a race between uzumaki naruto vs hommer the simpson
Ninja turtle vs a turtlr
I love bikes and I like harleys but come on, don’t embarass yourself like that. Harleys are meant for long distance ride on an open road. Jeez.
Probably because they enjoy riding.
@lazer tag i guess there is a reason we dont know. Maybe to colect some money for kids with cancer or theyre just a club wanna probe harley vs harley. Or who knows but its an stupid idea made a race buza vs harley. Everybody knows the end of that before starts so therw is a reason behind sure of that
@lazer tag you are what, 12 years old?
A lot of guys take their bikes to the track to see what their bike can do, or beat their best time, or have some fun. Doesn't matter if a 'busa is in the other lane or a go-kart. So while these races are certainly entertainment, it's not like the Harleys are showing up expecting to win. But a great video nonetheless!
Look at this real heavy cruiser bikes racing... Just hardcore HD
But ...why?
Because Harley boys don't know when to stop.
ryvoltz uuuuuuhhhhhh hahahaha, you're a fucking dumb ass, kiddo. This aint no nhra drags. It's a typical run what you've got. I bet you ride in full gear to pick up groceries right. Typical metric fan boy.
I've already seen you're one of those imbeciles who think bikes with different number of cylinders can't be compared. And if you don't wear all your gear all the time, you're more of an imbecile than I thought you were.
Jarli is 💩
Its not really a race theyre just running two different bikes at once trying to better their previous time
Why though? That’s like doing a mustang vs Prius
More like evo vs prius
@@ritwikreddy5670 mustangs are faster.
Who the hell tries racing a bagger vs a sport bike. Lmfao
Tour pack on smgdh haha
The sportbike rider has made a coffee and drank it while the harley is approaching the finish line.
What event is this? Looks like a test & tune, rather than racing.
When Harley's do a burn out they provide their own lubrication of oil from their leaking engine cases
Can someone teach these people that Harley's are cruiser's. Comparing a cruiser with a super sports bike is inappropriate
Cruiser for comfortable riding
And superbike for drag race or legal race *change my mind
Que estupidez. Eso es lo mismo que correr una bicicleta con un triciclo
Es tan estúpido como comprar una custon
1st hd sounds like it has indigestion. The engine isn't used to bangin' the rev limiter.
I love sport bikes but when I’m old and my joints ache, I’m definitely gonna get a cruiser. Just gotta be faster than cars. Plus lanesplitting here in Cali 😝
Don't. My father owns a Honda VTC 1100cc Shadow and he has serious back and shoulder pain. He profoundly regrets buying that bike. Too much vibration, too heavy and cumbersome to maneuver easily with his weakened articulations. If you wanna buy an "old man bike", buy a BMW roadster, or if you're really tall, a trail.
Welcome to America,where every vehicle made is big and slow
Harley Davidsons maybe, but there are plenty of non-big, and non-slow american cars out there.
@@perkdawg_ which all get outperformed by a german car which has half the engine size lmao
@@bierba German cars and bikes are unreliable sht
I'm from Europe
@@dr.jiIIaIicecooper2587 they are in fact not and you are also in fact not from europe. you been shooting videos in the us for 6 years now, quite the vacation you got there mate.
@@bierba That doesn't change a thing LMAO
I'm still from Europe
Apples and bananas. Both are a fruit.
tomcatf14123 stfu
Yep, and one of them is more like a dick. I'll let you work out which is which
But with different tastes
*speed, I am speed*
4:50 - 4:58 the best moan I have ever heard coming from a bike so far
PrXristos san tripani akougetai hahahha
That turbo busa sounded like heaven
People dont even know why they buy Harleys. They think people will think their cool...worthless bikes. Triumph Tiger xc 12000....o-60 1st gear. 2 seconds with knobbies.
Moral of story is don't be a sheep
They buy a Harley because of the Torque... Which gives a Harley the ride it is... It's a powerful motorcycle that has ALOT more torque than any sportbike. Sport bikes are made for racing...(sport) Harleys are cruisers.... (cruising) This is apple's and oranges!
@@spoom937 Harleys aren't the only cruisers out there. Id take a Virago over one any day.
@@iunnox666 it still doesn't come close to torque of a Harley... Which is the whole reason people ride them! You will never understand until you ride one!
@@spoom937 ridermagazine.com/2018/04/06/2018-harley-road-glide-ultra-vs-indian-roadmaster-vs-yamaha-star-venture-tc-comparo-review/
Harley has the least torque, I'll bet this is true across their entire product range in comparison with other brands.
Because maybe it's a preference.. like people who buy muscle cars over imports.. or buying a supercar instead of a hypercar... not everyone buys a vehicle for speed, sometimes they enjoy the vehicle. If you can't understand that I feel sooo bad for you.
Not that it matters how fast they are, unless you're on a track you'll never get to experience all the vehicle can give you. 🤷
anjir joki nya sport bike eddan semua salut gwe
Mana ngerti orang itu lu Komen bahasa indo
@@bagjasatria2552 njay ;V bae biar nggak ada yang sakit hati owkowkow
Anjaaaaay
POS Harley burnout totally moot ! Jus' sayin .
Motor clasic mahal tapi Speednya rendah motor Sport fairing 1000cc Laju dan harga terjangkau
It looked like some of the Harley guys didn't even put there visors down, funny stuff