The terrible steam locomotives that were also cars - Dutton Road-Rail Tractors

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  • Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 126

  • @TrainFactGuy
    @TrainFactGuy  Год назад +113

    Did I pronounce the "ruit" part of "Naboomspruit" the same as you pronounce "fruit"? -Yes.
    Did I only realise I probably pronounced it wrong too late while editing?
    -Yes.

    • @railwayjade
      @railwayjade Год назад +3

      Thanks for a bit of history I was not aware of in my own country - Great video!
      For future reference, you pronounce the "ruit" part as in eight with an r in front. "r-eight"

    • @Boypogikami132
      @Boypogikami132 Год назад +1

      70th like :)

    • @stanislavczebinski994
      @stanislavczebinski994 Год назад +2

      That would AFAIK be correct in Dutch - Afrikaans is, most probably, different.
      Greetings from Germany!!

    • @OntarioTrafficMan
      @OntarioTrafficMan Год назад +1

      @@stanislavczebinski994 it would not be correct in Dutch. "Spruit" means sprout and it's pronounced similarly to "sprout" in a Canadian English accent.
      I think the most similar German sound would be "eu". For example Deutsch is spelt "Duits" in Dutch and is pronounced roughly the same.

    • @stanislavczebinski994
      @stanislavczebinski994 Год назад

      @@OntarioTrafficMan Yes. I was wrong.

  • @Leonardo-cw1dd
    @Leonardo-cw1dd Год назад +145

    omg yea trevor’s theme is ver appropriate here

    • @OneArmLivingLife
      @OneArmLivingLife Год назад +5

      Ha lol maybe with a bit of Edward or Henry’s forest maybe?

    • @TankEngineMedia
      @TankEngineMedia Год назад +5

      I didn’t notice at first lol

    • @Leonardo-cw1dd
      @Leonardo-cw1dd Год назад +3

      @@OneArmLivingLife no edward and/or henry’s forest’s themes weren’t there

    • @OneArmLivingLife
      @OneArmLivingLife Год назад +1

      @@Leonardo-cw1dd no I’m trying to say it might’ve been appropriate

    • @Leonardo-cw1dd
      @Leonardo-cw1dd Год назад +1

      @@OneArmLivingLife ah ok my bad

  • @wilfstor3078
    @wilfstor3078 Год назад +86

    Duttons concept posthumously actually works, there is a company in Canada called Brandt which creates a road/rail truck that is capable of pulling up to 15 railcars at a time called the R4 Power Unit, it's proven popular with industries as it's cheaper than a switching locomotive, and many class 1 railroads use them to pull maintenance trains, often tie replacement trains as the truck can carry Brandt's OTM Tracker tie crane on the back

    • @michigandon
      @michigandon Год назад +6

      If I was going to start a shortline, I would definitely consider a Brandt truck. May cost a bit more up front, but it would ultimately be much better than trying to keep a crotchety old Geep or SW operating.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 Год назад +1

      ah the high railer

    • @harrymu148
      @harrymu148 Год назад +2

      ngl any road rail truck can probably be pressed into service to shunt light loads, but brandt trucks just have enough of that heavy metal muscle to do it effectively.

  • @primrosevale1995
    @primrosevale1995 Год назад +73

    Ironic considering some places actually found decent success turning their tractors into rail vehicles.

  • @azuma892
    @azuma892 Год назад +26

    ToT's livestream: EVERYONE PLEASE DON'T MENTION THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE
    ToT's videos: Thomas themes

  • @roseroserose588
    @roseroserose588 Год назад +25

    I love that the guy looks at a railway and thinks to himself "you know what the problem is here? the TRAINS!"

    • @laurencefraser
      @laurencefraser Год назад +1

      properly speaking, the 'train' is the stuff the locomotive is pulling (as in all other uses of the word), though that quickly runs into the issue of people bundling it in anyway, and also 'how the hell do you classify a railcar or EMU then?'.
      I mean, I get your point, but... the tractor pulled arrangements were still trains.

    • @roseroserose588
      @roseroserose588 Год назад +2

      @@laurencefraser I was SO CLOSE to changing my comment to say locomotive exactly for this reason, but i thought nah leave it nobody's that pedantic 😆
      Yeah the classification really falls apart when you're into *MUs, it's easier just to call everything trains people know what you mean haha

    • @bene5431
      @bene5431 Год назад

      ​@@roseroserose588 Leave it. After all, what's the point of just the locomotive going off the rails without pulling anything?

    • @johnathonmcjohn3
      @johnathonmcjohn3 7 месяцев назад +1

      Hmm somethings wrong with this railway
      Whats wrong with it?
      Why does it have....
      Trains...
      Dude its a railway
      You know what it needs?
      A tractor!
      Y'know your probably the most...
      GENIUS PERSON IVE EVER MET

  • @Parsonator64
    @Parsonator64 Год назад +33

    "In theory, the rubber tyres had higher traction on the roads than the steam locomotives wheel on steel rails"
    That seems an oddly specific choice of words.
    ...
    Oh

    • @matsv201
      @matsv201 Год назад +2

      Well if its a gravel road, the actual traction can be pretty much anything

  • @PennsyPappas
    @PennsyPappas Год назад +39

    Trying to take the best of two worlds but ending up with two negatives reminds me of the EMD "BL2" Diesels that tried to take the benefits of the Road Switcher design of diesels and the streamline look of a cab unit but ultimately ended up with a not so pleasant looking engine that had poor visibility front and back. Which a Road Switcher should be able to see forward or backwards quite easily so it ended up being quite the failure of an engine.

  • @Evaunit98
    @Evaunit98 Год назад +28

    Can we put the hilarity of taking these things to the British Empire exhibition in 1924 specifically into perspective, if you know your railways history you’d know what else was at that particular exhibition, a little known locomotive called Flying Scotsman so people got to see both the very best and the very worst in British railway development in the same place

  • @thescottishtwins910
    @thescottishtwins910 Год назад +4

    Absolutely loved hearing Trevor’s theme in the background

  • @ThatScottishAtlantic57
    @ThatScottishAtlantic57 Год назад +26

    I mean, it's not the weirdest or stupidest thing to run on rails.

    • @doctorhabilthcjesus4610
      @doctorhabilthcjesus4610 Год назад +3

      Yes, it was mainly ahead of its time. There are many things that a "Zweiwege Unimog" does better, but in principle it's that idea which is used today for many industrial shunting purposes.

    • @matsv201
      @matsv201 Год назад +1

      @@doctorhabilthcjesus4610 Here in Sweden we mostly use Hudding tractor, that actually looks like a tractor.

    • @HyperCat72
      @HyperCat72 Год назад +1

      Yeah that was the leader class

  • @XYZ_is_taken
    @XYZ_is_taken Год назад +16

    the steam equivalent to a high railed vehicle.

  • @allalphazerobeta8643
    @allalphazerobeta8643 Год назад +3

    I see there is confustion on what Dutton's idea was and people think it later became successfully in things like rail maintenance vehicles and the R4 Power Unit. This are not Dutton's Idea because they use the rail to push against when in rail mode. Dutton's idea was the if you pushed against the dirt/earth around the rail, you would need much smaller rails meaning you could have tighter turns and you could change direction by going off-rail. (Which is a big advantage over, having a bypass section or slowly pushing which is unstable.) Of course, mud gives very poor traction, so it didn't work out. So please don't confuse this with later True hybrid, Rail and Tire vehicles. That was not his idea.

  • @jed-henrywitkowski6470
    @jed-henrywitkowski6470 Год назад +5

    I just learned that this concept is quite old!
    Here in the US of A, we have Hi-railers which are basically commercial road tractors modified highway to rail use.

  • @tengkudita3665
    @tengkudita3665 Год назад +6

    i can hear Thomas music in the background (Trevor The Traction Engine's Theme )

  • @crabby7668
    @crabby7668 Год назад +6

    Fascinating technology. I suppose one of the problems is that you need a decent road around the track to get the best from the road wheel adhesion. I doubt you would get satisfactory performance on ballast, dirt or sleepers. So in reality you would have to pay for laying a road and rails to get the best out of this design. Modern road railers tend to drive the rubber tyres directly onto the rails or indirectly onto the steel rail wheels. To get the best use of the rubber tyres friction you would need to drive it directly onto the rails.

    • @quillmaurer6563
      @quillmaurer6563 Год назад +2

      That was my immediate thought - modern road-rail machines have drive wheels on the rails (either the rubber tires rolling on the rails, or separate drive for train wheels) while this rolled against the ground. Basically requiring that both a track and road surface be built, and having the issues of soft ground and rutting. As he said, the worst of both worlds, and the cost of both.

  • @cyphrent298
    @cyphrent298 Год назад +8

    Would love to see you do a video on the Galloping Geese. As someone from Colorado, the geese are kind of rail legends in the region but you rarely hear about them.

  • @quillmaurer6563
    @quillmaurer6563 Год назад +3

    The immediate issue that comes to mind is the surface the tractor wheels roll on. If soft or slick, the wheels would slip or bog down. Wheels rolling over the same exact alignment repeatedly would create deep ruts, this is a common issue for guided buses (those with conventional tires and a single guide rail) even on asphalt roads. So they'd pretty much have to have both rails and paved rollways, meaning the costs of both a railroad and a paved road, and even that probably wouldn't have worked all that well. I suppose rubber-tired metros have that (with highly durable concrete or metal rollways), but they're very high-use high-cost installations, the opposite of the goal here. So as described, the disadvantages of both road and rail and the advantages of neither. As he mentioned, there are modern road-rail vehicles, usually maintenance machines but occasionally serving as small locomotives, but they have a crucial difference: they only have wheels (train wheels or rubber tires) rolling on the rails, none on the ground next to them.

  • @jacoblyman9441
    @jacoblyman9441 Год назад +3

    The modern Trackmobile is basically this but modernized and reliable.

  • @TenShine1productions
    @TenShine1productions Год назад +8

    What I find ironic is, now we have many many vehicles that can easily transfer from road to rail.
    Backhoes
    Diggers.
    Lorries
    Land rovers
    Gators
    Dumpers.
    Scissor lifts
    So the idea is still around. Just better

    • @quillmaurer6563
      @quillmaurer6563 Год назад +1

      Those for the most part aren't meant to serve as locomotives, they are self-propelled maintenance or inspection vehicles. They work relatively well as that. This design on the other hand was intended to function as a locomotive, for pulling cars. Though actually I've seen a few videos of modified trucks being used to pull short trains on branch lines or spurs, I assume retaining the road-rail capability. Probably the biggest difference with this design is that it was intending to have the drive wheels roll on the ground/road next to the rails rather than on the rails themselves, while what you mention rolls on the rails themselves. Like this video mentioned, this resulted in the worst of both rail and road transport.

    • @WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
      @WesternOhioInterurbanHistory Год назад +1

      sometimes an entire BUS

  • @matsv201
    @matsv201 Год назад +2

    I would almost say that shunting on smaller industrial lines is almost excitedly made by rail tractors around here nowadays. Even some branch lines use them as there main loco. And its true that they are considerably cheaper than locos.
    Those modern tractors are on the other hand quite a bit faster and also have a lot of tractive effort (the Unimog that is often use can pull 1000 tons)

  • @atlascheethac7869
    @atlascheethac7869 Год назад +2

    Sad to see how South Africas railways have fallen in modern times.

  • @__CS
    @__CS Год назад +1

    As a Canadian, I am always pleased by the random stuff named
    “Canada _____” (junction, square, etc.) - makes me feel like they were thinking of us after all 🥰

  • @HunterShows
    @HunterShows Год назад +3

    They had already had traction engines for decades. Clearly they approached this topic the wrong way.

  • @Lucius_Chiaraviglio
    @Lucius_Chiaraviglio Год назад +2

    Would be cool if you could find pictures of Trackmobiles in action (they have a couple of them at the Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum, in Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts; unfortunately, these are as far as I can tell not in running order). This had a neat idea -- the road wheels were at right angles to the rail wheels, so you drove perpendicular to the tracks to get on and off them, then put the rail wheels down on the tracks (the road wheels actually lifted up), and then coupled onto a couple of cars to push or pull them. The Trackmobile brand still exists as a part of the Marmon Group, but they don't seem to make units with the right-angle design any more (they seem to be all in-line like other road-rail vehicles).

  • @LukeTheTrainGuy
    @LukeTheTrainGuy Год назад

    I myself am a south african so its nice to see Train of Thought make a video about a south african rail motive vehicle

  • @roberthuron9160
    @roberthuron9160 Год назад +1

    There was a line on the original Metropolitan[London],called the Verney Junction line,which used a converted steam traction engine for motive power,unique! Also the PRR,and B&O,were using traction cars for switching in the Baltimore dock areas,another unique bit of unusual motive equipment history!

  • @johnkelley9877
    @johnkelley9877 Год назад

    I subscribed today because you have some very unique subjects that are not often covered. Thanks for sharing this.

  • @fishpop
    @fishpop Год назад +1

    Couldn't help tapping my feet together cos of Trevor's theme.

  • @Thatonesaddletank
    @Thatonesaddletank Год назад +1

    I like how you used the theme of a certain tractor

  • @KlingelTimi.
    @KlingelTimi. Год назад +1

    I like how the sound in the background is just the theme of terrence the tractor.

  • @Portablesounds
    @Portablesounds Год назад

    Having Trevor's theme as the background music for this is perfect lol.

  • @DouglasGibsonjr-zn6mm
    @DouglasGibsonjr-zn6mm Год назад +2

    I think hes playing Trevor's theme song From Thomas & Friends

  • @harrisonallen651
    @harrisonallen651 Год назад

    “The Dutton Road & Rail System” - I love it!

  • @kekofsodor4899
    @kekofsodor4899 Год назад +1

    Don't think you can get Trevor's theme past me, nice one 👍

  • @Marcy53Volkswagen
    @Marcy53Volkswagen Год назад +3

    correction.
    they were technically "steam tractors".
    not "cars"
    steam powered machines with diferent forms of design and type on ground

  • @MaxPlaysGames2009
    @MaxPlaysGames2009 Год назад +2

    Kinda reminds me of the name "Motor Road and Rail"

  • @ForemansEnterpriseChannel
    @ForemansEnterpriseChannel Год назад

    It looks like George the Steam Roller.
    "RAILWAYS ARE NO GOOD! TURN EM INTO ROADS!

  • @oncimio7085
    @oncimio7085 Год назад +1

    Trevor’s theme 🤣🤣💀 love it

  • @Allan_aka_RocKITEman
    @Allan_aka_RocKITEman Год назад

    Great video...👍

  • @tmdrm9817
    @tmdrm9817 Год назад

    Finally south africa is in here!

  • @MrXbow4300
    @MrXbow4300 Год назад

    Video idea: GWR 4300
    They went to the Western front during World War One and are the second most produced great western steam engines behind the panniers

  • @brenlc1412
    @brenlc1412 Год назад

    Imagine failing at BOTH things you were designed for. Couldn’t be me🥲

  • @thomasliptak9469
    @thomasliptak9469 Год назад +1

    Dutton: I suffer dreadfully and no one cares

  • @SMGJohn
    @SMGJohn Год назад

    Should have made it so these could jack up on two sets of rails on both sides, and then attached a chain to the main running gear to the rail wheels, so that it drives just like a small locomotive, but when needed it can detach and go off road on its regular tractor wheels.
    Or maybe just made a bigger truck.

  • @Butterfly.pax1
    @Butterfly.pax1 Год назад +1

    In the opening of this video you have used a photograph of a SAR class 1A taken by myself Leith Paxton without acknowledgment or my permission.

    • @TrainFactGuy
      @TrainFactGuy  Год назад

      Terribly sorry about that. If you'd like to discuss the matter of usage, compensation, credit etc, please contact me at my business email: twicetrainfacts@gmail.com so we can resolve the issue

  • @jonathanpan6110
    @jonathanpan6110 Год назад

    Talk about the EMD BL2, it's a good idea, as it had tried to do the same idea, grab the benefits of two things into one

  • @WardenWolf
    @WardenWolf Год назад

    I think it was mostly just bad implementation. If they'd designed it around the width of the rear motive wheels so they sat on the rails, it would have likely worked okay. That would make it more akin to the road-rail vehicles we have today. It just wasn't a well-designed adaptation.

  • @Funnyboiiiiiii
    @Funnyboiiiiiii Год назад +1

    Dang 30 mins late from the vid

  • @IndustrialParrot2816
    @IndustrialParrot2816 Год назад

    a precursor to the modern hi railer (which are pickup trucks used for maintenance of way)

  • @Arkay315
    @Arkay315 Год назад +1

    Trevor's illegitimate cousin.

  • @brianbarker2551
    @brianbarker2551 Год назад

    right idea, wrong time

  • @bennyblizzard
    @bennyblizzard Год назад +1

    I can hear the trevor the traction engine theme

  • @pacificostudios
    @pacificostudios Год назад

    For 1923, this seems to be was a ridiculous idea. Petrol engines were all over the place by the 1920s and this little loco's power requirements were well within the capabilities of available engines in the 1920s.

    • @jameslawrie3807
      @jameslawrie3807 Год назад

      They hadn't made the massive leap forward that they did in the thirties (one of the reasons tanks had such thin armour around then). In 1924 petrol engines were finicky, needed constant tuning, were comparatively fuel hogs and were often fragile. In the 1922 Railway Journal* there's cautious enthusiasm for those new-fangled diesel trains in Sweden.
      (*this is available on the Internet Archive and I really recommend it as a source)

    • @pacificostudios
      @pacificostudios Год назад

      @@jameslawrie3807 - Thanks for your reply. For larger engines, a gasoline-powered locomotive was impractical in 1920. But the Ford Model T (20 HP, 4 cylinders) was well on the way to its 15 million total production between 1907 and 1927 (or so). The McKeen Motor Co. built 152 gasoline (petrol-) powered railcars between 1905 and 1917 in the U.S. I know that the McKeen cars had many problems due to issues like clutch failure. But I think their engines, which ranged from 100 to 300 HP, were more powerful than what would be needed to pull a handful of freight cars with a tractor. At any event, the cost and complication of maintaining an almost miniature boiler and steam engine makes me shudder. Live steam engines are a great hobby, but these things don't scale down well, when you are running steam for some profit-making purpose, you know?

  • @cadmanchannel
    @cadmanchannel 9 месяцев назад

    It didn't need the front rail wheels. Just pull the rail wagons while straddling the rails.

  • @nathandeal9703
    @nathandeal9703 Год назад

    Fascinating, I wonder if anyone’s tried to make a model of this in On30 or On3

    • @OO_scale_RC
      @OO_scale_RC Год назад +1

      Yes, me.
      ruclips.net/video/6Eu6-HJfvu4/видео.html
      This is one of the tractors that ran at wembley. It's still work in progress but there are 2 other videos of it on my channel too. It's in OO9 scale which is the British equivalent of HOn30

  • @GLENBR0
    @GLENBR0 Год назад

    now to just make a video on the Avontuur Railway. pretty pretty please with a GP-38-3 on top

  • @EdwardChan.999
    @EdwardChan.999 Год назад

    Meanwhile trackless trams still exist...

  • @Sohave
    @Sohave Год назад

    Building Climax or light Garrett locomotives would also have fixed the problem.

  • @donwright3427
    @donwright3427 Год назад

    Most interesting

  • @MisterHecker3129
    @MisterHecker3129 Год назад

    Day 1 asking Train of Thought to make a video talking about fireless locomotives

  • @hugothomas1199
    @hugothomas1199 Год назад

    Wasn’t this on the ToT cursed Live stream?

  • @layeredchip3220
    @layeredchip3220 Год назад

    Good informative video but please don’t use this background music again, it’s infuriating.

  • @sl7730
    @sl7730 Год назад

    How about covering the streamlined gwr kings

  • @AtkataffTheAlpha
    @AtkataffTheAlpha Год назад +1

    Uhhh.. roads are no good turn them into railroads?

    • @DoctorProph3t
      @DoctorProph3t Год назад

      Pull em up, turn em into railroads!
      … wait.

  • @wilberator9608
    @wilberator9608 Год назад

    Boats are even more efficient, should've made a land-going boat instead.

  • @alicehodges9964
    @alicehodges9964 6 месяцев назад

    I Like The Steam Engine

  • @garryferrington811
    @garryferrington811 Год назад

    It seems to me that electrification would have met the problem better. The concept wasn't wrong, though.

  • @TheStickCollector
    @TheStickCollector Год назад

    If we had a hybrid system like this in the us Rail might not have a bad representation, if done properly

  • @thomasshaftoe461
    @thomasshaftoe461 Год назад

    Havr you seen The Transporters?

  • @davidgrenis638
    @davidgrenis638 Год назад

    I DEFINITELY THINK HIS IDEA HAS MERIT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN HINDERED BY PROBABLY HIS OWN MONEY AND THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE TIME WHEN LOCOMOTIVES HAD MULTIPLE DRIVING WHEELS AND HIS THING ONLY HAD ONE SET

  • @charlesmartin3277
    @charlesmartin3277 Год назад

    I love sond seam wissel❤

  • @redoktopus3047
    @redoktopus3047 Год назад

    has south africa ever built a _normal_ locomotive?

  • @zopobossthefirst7344
    @zopobossthefirst7344 Год назад

    Gives “Sigi Strasser” vibes

  • @misterflibble6601
    @misterflibble6601 Год назад

    Perhaps and idea before it's time?

  • @trainboy04asmallfrye20
    @trainboy04asmallfrye20 Год назад

    The most goofy ahh traction engine

  • @iannickCZ
    @iannickCZ Год назад

    These multi-purpose invetions are always poor across industries.

  • @BladeLigerV
    @BladeLigerV Год назад

    It didn't work. But ill be damned it was pretty clever.

  • @alexisvongermania8870
    @alexisvongermania8870 Год назад

    All they needed was a railbus with petrol engine >.>

    • @quillmaurer6563
      @quillmaurer6563 Год назад +1

      I get the sense this was more for freight rather than passengers.

  • @Q8Bart
    @Q8Bart Год назад +1

    🚂🚜💪

  • @basithsyed7032
    @basithsyed7032 Год назад

    they could have just got a car and put train wheels on it and when the driver feels like driving off the rails, he/she can just steer off of the tracks

    • @quillmaurer6563
      @quillmaurer6563 Год назад

      So you mean a Hyrail?

    • @laurencefraser
      @laurencefraser Год назад

      Not sure if cars of the day were up to pulling as much as they'd need to... but that is very much a thing that exists now, and it does work quite well for the things its used for (note: Generally actually pulling trains any distance is not one of those things, though they do sometimes get used for shunting.)

  • @thewanderer9958
    @thewanderer9958 Год назад

    Are there any railroads, past or present, that are profitable?

    • @laurencefraser
      @laurencefraser Год назад +1

      Plenty. It's not actually that rare when they're not mismanaged into the ground (though, much like airlines, there are a lot of routes that are quite necessary and useful that only turn a profit due to subsidies... ... ... frequently those subsides come from other, much more profitable, lines that they feed into, and which would be Less profitable without them, though.)
      Note that if you used the standards railroads are usually held to to determine if 'highways' or 'airlines' were profitable, the vast majority of Them would fail too.
      All such transport infrastructure produces most of it's 'proifts' not in terms of ticket sales, but in terms of increased tax take due to the increased economic activity it facilitates.
      (actually, turns out a lot of big cities with massive suburban sprawl, mostly in the USA but also in other places, are actually bankrupting themselves with maintenance costs for roads on routes that railways would serve just as well if not better for a fraction of the cost to both the city's budget and the actual user (ticket prices can drop below car fuel prices, let alone fuel plus upkeep prices, on well used and managed railways, even with the railway still turning a profit. And that's before taking into account the percentage of the road user (and even non-road user)'s tax bill that is eaten by road upkeep.)

  • @theexcaliburone5933
    @theexcaliburone5933 Год назад

    And then the French made their subways the same

  • @robertbalazslorincz8218
    @robertbalazslorincz8218 Год назад

    Tf?

  • @whatdoyouexactlymeanbyhandle
    @whatdoyouexactlymeanbyhandle Год назад

    108th

  • @jimmypetrock
    @jimmypetrock Год назад

    uh

  • @wincentyu631
    @wincentyu631 Год назад

    Qp

  • @whatdoyouexactlymeanbyhandle
    @whatdoyouexactlymeanbyhandle Год назад

    13th

  • @KlaxontheImpailr
    @KlaxontheImpailr Год назад

    Reminds me of the Patiala state railway in India. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patiala_State_Monorail_Trainways