Really appreciated this series of videos. We’re on the brink of a move to a small farm and need to find power and water services on the land. Have a conversation with Duncan and Neon Surveys started in preparation 🎉
The utility company contractors always take a photo of the job they’ve done. if that photo was taken on a phone it would more than likely have the GPS coordinates contained on the image info (just next to the job). So if they took and image straight down that could log the coordinates. Nice vid, thanks all involved.
Interesting video, thanks. Retired DNO engineer here. The 'end' pole looks like it possibly had a pole-mounted transformer on it once upon a time - the remains of jumper connections from the conductors that would've landed on the transformer terminals can still be seen. It wasn't entirely clear from your video but it looks like the final two spans of the line (almost certainly 11kV) have been left in-situ as the stay-wires at the terminal pole are providing the mechanical support for the local section of the line - as I say difficult to be definitive without a closer look. Much more worryingly (and again the video didn't perhaps give the best view) it looks like a farm building (a barn?) has been built right under the 11kV line with nothing like the required clearance to the conductors!!! I suppose if you go ahead and get the work done to remove the 'redundant' last two spans, this will cease to be the safety hazard it appears to be. From what I could see it looks like removing these two spans would mean at least new stay wires being installed on the remaining pole, which may also need to be changed completely depending on its current dimensions (adding stay wires adds to the crippling load on the pole, which, when added to any existing load such as a transformer may mean that pole itself needs to be upgraded from a 'medium' to a 'stout' - your DNO will advise you when they quote you for the work!). All sorts of high-tech discussions about (non-invasive) surveys but nothing really beats a trial hole(s), carefully excavated in accordance with HSE Guidance Note HSG47! Your local DNO should provide you with cable records to help and very possibly a visit from a plant protection officer (or similar titled person). Don't laugh, but if all else fails, use dowsing. As a young trainee engineer in the mid-late 80s I worked with a couple of very experienced engineers who introduced me to the operation of their dowsing kit. Of course, I assumed they were totally taking the p155 out of the young trainee but I can attest that it actually works. I have no idea at all how or why it works - I cannot explain it - but I have used it and it absolutely does work.
I’m a lineman in Ireland, so obviously some things aren’t the same. But this answer seems to certainly be on the money, until you can get someone from your Utility company out!
An old water leakage tech set up a dowsing test with me. Miles from anywhere on a country road. I was given the welding rods and told to walk 100 m down the road. The rods crossed so I marked the spot and was instructed to continue to the next deviation. The tech then cleared the undergrowth in the ditch to reveal a iron 6 inch main and then a small culvert both crossing the road. He had access to all the fancy electronics but usually started his searches with the rods if not under observation and then confirm with the more modern kit. It was a rather stunning experience for me. I repeated the walk now knowing the positions of the pipes. The water main I found again with ease but the culvert was not detected. His only advice was to think of water running though a pipe as you walk if you want water and electric in a cable if that was your target. All very odd.
Yeah that all makes sense Craig, definitely evidence of brackets and hardware having once been on the pole. I believe the overhead did once carry on further on than that last post, the second to last was installed to raise the cables up away from barn, albeit not far enough I doubt. Anyway, we will see how we get on with Western Power and see what needs to be done to remove the two and install a suitable pole/poles and stays.
Nice job. Those cables to the end look as though they are a much higher voltage than your domestic supply. I think maybe further back you have a transformer to get your domestic supply. The insulators on those last two poles are huge, hence the comment for a higher voltage. Thanks for posting
I should add that cable-laying contractors almost certainly do not use GPS survey records for the vast majority of their work. Perhaps on 'big' cable laying projects they will but for run-of-the-mill LV and 11kV cable-laying, a 'sketch' is submitted to the DNO for later incorporation into their cable records. As an older (and slightly wiser) engineer who knew just how great a job our dedicated cartographic draughtsmen and women used to do for cable records, I despair at the state of modern cable records. A former Wayleave Officer colleague always used to remind me to (gently) advise customers that cable and OHL records are 'indicative, not taxative'. Worth keeping in mind before firing-up the old excavator!
It’s probably going to cost you around £10k to get rid of those two spans unless you terminate your wayleave. That barn is a serious safety concern, it should be 6m away from the line not almost underneath.
As others have said, it looks to be 11kv on those lines you showed. Evidently there would have been a transformer on the end of it, and the buried cable that you were detecting was probably used to power your farm originally (at 240/415V 3p). What has probably happened is the transformer removed, and the supply to your farm connected to some transformer somewhere else, perhaps connected at that manhole you mention. If that buried cable you were tracking was reading live then it's a good chance it's the leftover "stub" from the old transformer feed. They probably just capped it and left it in situ live. Bit naughtly, but stranger things have happened. To get rid of it - either pony up the £10k, or you can try terminating your wayleavers with the DNO. It should be in your legal pack hopefully.
Ive always been perplexed by the lack of utilities locations on house surveys when selling and purchasing. Evidence of mining in the area, etc but not the crucial info of site drainage, elec, gas, water. Pretty much every extension I’ve ever built has had issues locating services. Very frustrating.😀
If that pole was for power supply there should be a transformer attached to one of the three lines then a single powerline from the transformer to the ground. It just looks like the extra power poles are endpoints for the power run?
Yeah you can see the holes and notches where a transformer or something was fixed up on the pole. The overhead cable used to carry on further to a sawmill but must have been disconnected at some point.
If a power supply crossed your land to the sawmill you would think there would be something in the deeds to indicate this (wayleaves). I think this is a sort of thing a property specialist Solicitor can establish before you buy. Whoever is adjacent to you might have those rights (to supply) even if they are not currently in use. What is the situation regarding the soil in all this??? Have you taken soil samples atall??? I know you would think a farm would be fine but is it not the case cows are a problem soil wise??? All I know is if you are intending to build soil is a huge issue, I think the situation is if it's concreted over you can leave it as the concrete is a barrier, I would not rip up sections of concrete until the soil situation is known. To me it looks a challenging site, you need to cover all the bases ie de-risk it as much as you can, or costs can really mount. It isn't just about planning permission, soil and wayleaves are a big factor too.
And if they use the roof(s) of the building(s) there won't be the need for the, imo, ugly structure needed to support the panels. But, yes, there's lots of potential for alternative energy. I'd be interested to see if there's the potential for any kind of hydro in the stream/ponds. Unlikely, from what we've seen, but we haven't been introduced to the entire property yet.
Stumbled across your channel when I was looking for info on how to build a raised border. Have followed your journey since and am loving it. Can you show a map of the site and talk us through what you would like to do with it please? It would help us get some perspective on what you are trying to achieve and the layout of the site ☺️
I asked for the map of underground services outside my workshop, as I want to put in a soakaway. SSE told me there were no services at all on my land. Even though SSE supply my electricity 🙄
The overhead power line looks like 11,000 Volt, the buried cable will be the same Voltage. Often the power companies will leave even out of use cables live, just in case they want to use them in the future. They may have left the overhead line and buried routes in place to maintain their wayleave rights
In the UK, any operator of a distribution network would have to be able to present a VERY convincing case to keep an out-of-use cable live at any voltage level. It has been established for some considerable time that the HSE take some convincing in this respect. If the cable is out-of-use, it should be disconnected. If there is a chance it may be used again then it will be properly sealed against water damage but it would always have to be rigorously tested before re-connection and energisation. Leaving an out-of-use cable in-situ would not in itself maintain a wayleave, although I confess that I'm not clear on the law in that respect in England and Wales.
Really appreciated this series of videos. We’re on the brink of a move to a small farm and need to find power and water services on the land. Have a conversation with Duncan and Neon Surveys started in preparation 🎉
Exciting times! You will be in good hands with Duncan and team. 👍
cant wait for all the new videos to come so excited for this place and what you intend to do
Excited to see what you do with this place!
The utility company contractors always take a photo of the job they’ve done. if that photo was taken on a phone it would more than likely have the GPS coordinates contained on the image info (just next to the job). So if they took and image straight down that could log the coordinates. Nice vid, thanks all involved.
Interesting video, thanks. Retired DNO engineer here. The 'end' pole looks like it possibly had a pole-mounted transformer on it once upon a time - the remains of jumper connections from the conductors that would've landed on the transformer terminals can still be seen. It wasn't entirely clear from your video but it looks like the final two spans of the line (almost certainly 11kV) have been left in-situ as the stay-wires at the terminal pole are providing the mechanical support for the local section of the line - as I say difficult to be definitive without a closer look. Much more worryingly (and again the video didn't perhaps give the best view) it looks like a farm building (a barn?) has been built right under the 11kV line with nothing like the required clearance to the conductors!!! I suppose if you go ahead and get the work done to remove the 'redundant' last two spans, this will cease to be the safety hazard it appears to be. From what I could see it looks like removing these two spans would mean at least new stay wires being installed on the remaining pole, which may also need to be changed completely depending on its current dimensions (adding stay wires adds to the crippling load on the pole, which, when added to any existing load such as a transformer may mean that pole itself needs to be upgraded from a 'medium' to a 'stout' - your DNO will advise you when they quote you for the work!).
All sorts of high-tech discussions about (non-invasive) surveys but nothing really beats a trial hole(s), carefully excavated in accordance with HSE Guidance Note HSG47! Your local DNO should provide you with cable records to help and very possibly a visit from a plant protection officer (or similar titled person).
Don't laugh, but if all else fails, use dowsing. As a young trainee engineer in the mid-late 80s I worked with a couple of very experienced engineers who introduced me to the operation of their dowsing kit. Of course, I assumed they were totally taking the p155 out of the young trainee but I can attest that it actually works. I have no idea at all how or why it works - I cannot explain it - but I have used it and it absolutely does work.
The only legit answer on here! 👌👏
I’m a lineman in Ireland, so obviously some things aren’t the same. But this answer seems to certainly be on the money, until you can get someone from your Utility company out!
An old water leakage tech set up a dowsing test with me. Miles from anywhere on a country road. I was given the welding rods and told to walk 100 m down the road. The rods crossed so I marked the spot and was instructed to continue to the next deviation. The tech then cleared the undergrowth in the ditch to reveal a iron 6 inch main and then a small culvert both crossing the road. He had access to all the fancy electronics but usually started his searches with the rods if not under observation and then confirm with the more modern kit. It was a rather stunning experience for me. I repeated the walk now knowing the positions of the pipes. The water main I found again with ease but the culvert was not detected. His only advice was to think of water running though a pipe as you walk if you want water and electric in a cable if that was your target. All very odd.
Yeah that all makes sense Craig, definitely evidence of brackets and hardware having once been on the pole. I believe the overhead did once carry on further on than that last post, the second to last was installed to raise the cables up away from barn, albeit not far enough I doubt. Anyway, we will see how we get on with Western Power and see what needs to be done to remove the two and install a suitable pole/poles and stays.
@@TheRestorationCouple I think this is the sort of thing you should have established on the survey and legals before you exchanged contracts.
Nice job. Those cables to the end look as though they are a much higher voltage than your domestic supply. I think maybe further back you have a transformer to get your domestic supply. The insulators on those last two poles are huge, hence the comment for a higher voltage. Thanks for posting
The farm may have had a 3 phase transformer mounted on those poles at one point.
Our 3 phase comes off a different supply under the lane, the overhead are a legacy from when they continued further on to an old sawmill I believe.
I'd guess 20-30 kV, i.e. medium voltage. HV (100 kV and up) is usually on bigger metal pylons rather than wooden poles.
I should add that cable-laying contractors almost certainly do not use GPS survey records for the vast majority of their work. Perhaps on 'big' cable laying projects they will but for run-of-the-mill LV and 11kV cable-laying, a 'sketch' is submitted to the DNO for later incorporation into their cable records. As an older (and slightly wiser) engineer who knew just how great a job our dedicated cartographic draughtsmen and women used to do for cable records, I despair at the state of modern cable records.
A former Wayleave Officer colleague always used to remind me to (gently) advise customers that cable and OHL records are 'indicative, not taxative'. Worth keeping in mind before firing-up the old excavator!
Very interesting.
Love your work 👍
It’s probably going to cost you around £10k to get rid of those two spans unless you terminate your wayleave. That barn is a serious safety concern, it should be 6m away from the line not almost underneath.
As others have said, it looks to be 11kv on those lines you showed. Evidently there would have been a transformer on the end of it, and the buried cable that you were detecting was probably used to power your farm originally (at 240/415V 3p). What has probably happened is the transformer removed, and the supply to your farm connected to some transformer somewhere else, perhaps connected at that manhole you mention. If that buried cable you were tracking was reading live then it's a good chance it's the leftover "stub" from the old transformer feed. They probably just capped it and left it in situ live. Bit naughtly, but stranger things have happened. To get rid of it - either pony up the £10k, or you can try terminating your wayleavers with the DNO. It should be in your legal pack hopefully.
Ive always been perplexed by the lack of utilities locations on house surveys when selling and purchasing. Evidence of mining in the area, etc but not the crucial info of site drainage, elec, gas, water. Pretty much every extension I’ve ever built has had issues locating services. Very frustrating.😀
You’ve got three phase power so that’s a good thing. You can buy good second hand three phase machinery pretty cheaply .
We have three phase in the barn which comes in separately from this overhead run but yes, great reason to get some bigger machines! 😀
ohh 3 phase electric. nice
looks like the last two spans are flying stays the 11kv lines and poles will be on record at wpd
If that pole was for power supply there should be a transformer attached to one of the three lines then a single powerline from the transformer to the ground. It just looks like the extra power poles are endpoints for the power run?
Yeah you can see the holes and notches where a transformer or something was fixed up on the pole. The overhead cable used to carry on further to a sawmill but must have been disconnected at some point.
If a power supply crossed your land to the sawmill you would think there would be something in the deeds to indicate this (wayleaves). I think this is a sort of thing a property specialist Solicitor can establish before you buy. Whoever is adjacent to you might have those rights (to supply) even if they are not currently in use.
What is the situation regarding the soil in all this??? Have you taken soil samples atall??? I know you would think a farm would be fine but is it not the case cows are a problem soil wise??? All I know is if you are intending to build soil is a huge issue, I think the situation is if it's concreted over you can leave it as the concrete is a barrier, I would not rip up sections of concrete until the soil situation is known. To me it looks a challenging site, you need to cover all the bases ie de-risk it as much as you can, or costs can really mount. It isn't just about planning permission, soil and wayleaves are a big factor too.
You have lots of space for a really good solar array and plenty of storage available for batteries
And if they use the roof(s) of the building(s) there won't be the need for the, imo, ugly structure needed to support the panels. But, yes, there's lots of potential for alternative energy.
I'd be interested to see if there's the potential for any kind of hydro in the stream/ponds. Unlikely, from what we've seen, but we haven't been introduced to the entire property yet.
Stumbled across your channel when I was looking for info on how to build a raised border. Have followed your journey since and am loving it. Can you show a map of the site and talk us through what you would like to do with it please? It would help us get some perspective on what you are trying to achieve and the layout of the site ☺️
I asked for the map of underground services outside my workshop, as I want to put in a soakaway. SSE told me there were no services at all on my land. Even though SSE supply my electricity 🙄
So much talking….. but soooo interesting! Thanks, all the best.
Yeah, unfortunately not too much to look at with this sort of thing and needs the explanation really. More tool action soon though!
@@TheRestorationCouple 🤣👍 but seriously, really helpful discussion as if you don’t get this right then it could mean 😱💥💦⚡️🔥
The overhead power line looks like 11,000 Volt, the buried cable will be the same Voltage. Often the power companies will leave even out of use cables live, just in case they want to use them in the future. They may have left the overhead line and buried routes in place to maintain their wayleave rights
In the UK, any operator of a distribution network would have to be able to present a VERY convincing case to keep an out-of-use cable live at any voltage level. It has been established for some considerable time that the HSE take some convincing in this respect. If the cable is out-of-use, it should be disconnected. If there is a chance it may be used again then it will be properly sealed against water damage but it would always have to be rigorously tested before re-connection and energisation. Leaving an out-of-use cable in-situ would not in itself maintain a wayleave, although I confess that I'm not clear on the law in that respect in England and Wales.
what about solar? you have so much space... 20K on solar would be cool. payback in 5 -6 years at todays price
Yeah it’s on the list, barn east to west but plenty of options when we get to that point 👍
@@TheRestorationCouple you could put it in a field on ground mounts facing south
I hate the word "utilities", it is too abstract and confusing for me :(