While I completely agree that the setup you present is (in my opinion) the best option for a portable 'travel' system (as far as flexibility and quality), the one thing missing is power. If you want to travel (airline) with this setup and be able to use it remotely (away from a/c power) what are the options for a battery pack (that would be allowed on a flight) that could run this rig for even one night? I have a vacation coming up and have been struggling to figure out what I could bring to be able to capture some decent images while I'm there...
I asked my Patreons: They suggested: Renting a battery pack at your destination, send the battery pack per postal mail to your hotel address, or take some airline compliant battery packs with you like this one: www.amazon.com/Takki-Portable-Generator-Flashlight-Emergency/dp/B0CNR7HQSQ?th=1
As an owner of a Celestron Origin, I completely disagree with your assessment. It comes integrated with automated alignment, tracking, image processing (coupled with raw files if desired for post-processing), a heated dew shield, built-in WiFi network for connection to an iPad for control, auto focuser, and more. And all of that in a portable setup. Yes, it is heavier than other rigs you mentioned, but still portable ... especially given its 153mm aperture. My first night out with my Origin I was fully setup and imaging in less than 5 minutes. Less than 5 minutes later, I had my first image and it was amazing. This was despite light clouds, wildfire smoke and Bortle 6 skies. There are plenty of these "in the wild" and you will see more. Finally, Celestron is a respected brand and they will continue to provide upgrades to their modular system in the future (improved sensor, wedge, continued software upgrades, etc.) I doubt I will ever need to buy a different 153mm astrograph in the future. If they release a larger aperture version of the Origin, I may be interested in that however.
Look, I'm sure you made a very educated decision when buying the Origin, given the price point. And it's great when it worked out and you like the product. But you are not fooling anybody, if you call an 18kg setup portable. And all your forecasting what Celestron might upgrade the Origin with is just wishful thinking..... Except you work for Celestron, you can't possibly know..... 😉 And btw - owning a Celestron CPC-800, I know what a wedge means, complexity and weight wise..... It really does not make this product more attractive....
@@viewintospace My definition of portable: I can move the scope easily from one location to another. Even if I have to take the OTA off the mount/tripod and move in 2 steps I can still do so in less than 3 minutes. Your definition of portable is likely different from mine. I do not work for Celestron. If they upgrade nothing on the product from what it is today, I am still a very happy consumer. Finally, yes ... I did make a very educated and well-thought-out decision to buy the Origin and am very happy with the purchase. My feedback is based on actual use of the Origin. I would not provide any feedback on a product without actually trying one first.
It doesnt have an equatorial mount it is way too expensive, it has a garbage camera it may be point and shoot but don't think it will produce APOD worthy images, it won't.
The next "smart" upgrade someone could make (and make a lot of money in the process) would be a mount that can self-align. Press a button, and the mount would adjust the dec and ra similar to an auto-focuser. That would be a massive automation evolution for a German Equatorial Mount.
I think you have made a convincing case. I look forward to seeing your set up video for the rig. Cost is still a concern for the setup, but it looks like a rig that can grow and change with the ‘hobby’.
So, one of the other advantages you highlighted for “smart scopes” is how inexpensive they are compared to the “big rigs”. So, how does your proposed configuration compare in price against the “big rigs”?
Good question! The rig as shown costs around USD 6000 - that is a bit more expensive than the Origin, but camera and mount wise you are at least one league above the Origin. As you know too, quality and low prices do not mix well in Astrophotography - so I think if someone whats to get better image quality, it has to be paid smart telescope or not.
I never said Smart Scopes like the Seestar are dumb or do not have their place - I'm very happy that beginners, children, handicapped people, people on a budget and so on have a way to explore space. You make here some totally unfunded assumptions.... But Celestron tried with their Origin a new class of Smart Scope which is more expensive and which is for an entire other customer segment. And I explore in this video this class of Smart Scopes, without putting shade on the entry level.
Hi Sascha, I couldn‘t agree more. Maximal integration and minimal flexibility is a dead end in astrofotography. I would rather suggest a base system with maximal flexibility by maximal modularity with modules covering a broad range of options and which fit seamlesslessly, as capability and ambitions grow.
There are a couple of directions to head the development of smart scopes... 1. light and user friendly ... we cevered rhat one ... 2. taking the setup tome down while preserving some modularity. on this subject i can only foresee a celestron say that can be modded for wider FOV and for deeper sky work like galxies and sh1 and arp objects ... i can only imagine the integration going into harmonic drives and computers to create automatic sky models like say PlaneWave on an alt az mount using some harmonic drive and a camera. if that mount can support 20-25 kg of gear ... i bet most of the market is sorted ! the Clestron 8 inch would be my first choice in terms of light weight and capability going from say FL 400 all the way to 2000 and with a Barlow... to 4000. the choice of alt az is to do with grab your rig and dump it outside and after leveling with a bubble indicator let it do its thing while you're on the couch 😅
@1:55 - I would submit that a “smart scope” is smarter than what most people think comprises the entire “dumb” telescope, which is the OTA. Now, you and I both know that a telescope includes much more than just the OTA, but I think a lot of the broader population of the planet doesn’t know that.
So smart phone is a phone that removes the need for a calendar, a camera, a gps, a torch, a compas etc etc etc.... A smart telescope is a telescope that removes the need for a mount, a camera, a guiding system, a power source, a filter wheel and automatic focuser. You are wrong.
Am I? If I take a traditional rig and put it in a cardboard box, can I call it then a smart scope, as you can not see the individual parts anymore? 😉 In your statement you focus way too much in integration and as I outlined in the video, for more expensive "smart" scopes exactly this integration point is the issue..... So I would not say I or you are wrong, but that we have a different idea of what makes a smart phone.
@@viewintospace nah... smart telescopes are here to stay, you are wrong and you don't understand smart as meaning way less cables, cost and complexity. No $500 astrophotography rig will come close to the Dwarf 3 or Seestar S50 heck find me a $500 mount? But you don't get that. They are dumb...
Thanks for the feedback. Someone else told me that also recently and so I looked at the issue which is most likely that the background had a too low resolution which led to a blurry background when zooming in. I upscaled now the background and hope with the next videos this issue will be solved. YouTubing is like Astrophotography - as soon as you change something the issues start... 🤣
Yes, but you see, as soon as would integrate dew control into the scope, you could not freely change the scope anymore... And lets be real, adding a dew strip takes about 1 min....
@@Dekard911 Yes, because they have the OTA integrated, which as I discussed in this video is not optimal. But for people who do not care about the non-exchangeable parts, these fully integrated scopes are for sure something to consider.
Great video, thank you! I'd like to point out that "Smartscopes" are useful too to open up our hobby to physically challenged people. I learned this the hard way when after suffering a Corona infection I could no longer handle my 25 kg rig. The SeeStar made all the difference between dropping out of the hobby or not. Considering further reduction of complexity of traditional rigs the integration of the focuser into the Scope seems like a logical step to me. You lose the possibility to switch the focuser between scopes but honestly I'm too lazy for this anyway. Looking forward to your report on your ASIAIR experience.
I could also agree with your view. But regarding flight, there is a problem with the power supply: not able to take a bigger LiFePo4 with you on a plane!
Agree - the "all in one" was added by you as this seems to be your implicit expectation of a smart scope. As stated, and also supported in some comments here, perhaps in these price ranges is "all in one" approach is not that optimal.....
@@viewintospace Yes but in your comparison - you are already an expert in the area so of course the Dwarf3, S50, Vespera doesn't seem smart to you as you can get up and running in a few minutes however you give someone new to Astronomy that equipment and they'd not be able to get up and running in 5 minutes. That's what is setting up the term for 'smart' scopes and lowering the barrier to entry to not have years of putting parts together to get into astronomy and astrophotography. It's like gate keeping and there's room for all of them. Myself I started last year on Vespera 2 and went out and got an EdgeHD8 because it made me want more.
While some of the points made are 'nebulous' I nonetheless also have the opinion that producing an expensive 'smart' telescope will have limited appeal. If ever I try to go more advanced I would much prefer to assemble my setup from components as you describe as it is not just about getting better images - but also the satisfaction of getting things all working together. By the way - my local astronomy supplier shipped over 100 low-end smart scopes in one batch recently - and there have been quite a number of batches. So - it's a brave you-tuber who dumps on the low-end smart telescopes as they may end up talking to a small minority of the growing astrophotography community despite the validity of their arguments. Full disclosure: I own several smart telescopes...
You will see in my next video my experience and opinion after using it - but your point fully resonates with me. For top quality I would also never give up my fully customized scope. About Seestar and alikes I did not "dump" on them - I fully see their purpose from low-budget entry to public outreach and many more. What I wanted to explore here is the advanced level smart scopes and yes, I'm brave enough to dump on the Origin, as I truly feel it missed the point...
@@viewintospace I look forward to the video. I enjoy very much your approach to such things. At this stage I think I will be remaining at the "low-budget entry" level because unless I can ever have a permanent observatory (not likely due to $) I cannot see I will be bothered hauling something heavy out and aligning it. I have an equatorial mount which I have failed to polar align here (southern hemisphere with sky glow to the south) on four attempts - so I didn't even get to mount a telescope. Frustrated by this failure I bought a Seestar. I had images within 5 minutes of my first try outside.
While I completely agree that the setup you present is (in my opinion) the best option for a portable 'travel' system (as far as flexibility and quality), the one thing missing is power. If you want to travel (airline) with this setup and be able to use it remotely (away from a/c power) what are the options for a battery pack (that would be allowed on a flight) that could run this rig for even one night? I have a vacation coming up and have been struggling to figure out what I could bring to be able to capture some decent images while I'm there...
I asked my Patreons: They suggested: Renting a battery pack at your destination, send the battery pack per postal mail to your hotel address, or take some airline compliant battery packs with you like this one: www.amazon.com/Takki-Portable-Generator-Flashlight-Emergency/dp/B0CNR7HQSQ?th=1
As an owner of a Celestron Origin, I completely disagree with your assessment. It comes integrated with automated alignment, tracking, image processing (coupled with raw files if desired for post-processing), a heated dew shield, built-in WiFi network for connection to an iPad for control, auto focuser, and more. And all of that in a portable setup. Yes, it is heavier than other rigs you mentioned, but still portable ... especially given its 153mm aperture. My first night out with my Origin I was fully setup and imaging in less than 5 minutes. Less than 5 minutes later, I had my first image and it was amazing. This was despite light clouds, wildfire smoke and Bortle 6 skies. There are plenty of these "in the wild" and you will see more. Finally, Celestron is a respected brand and they will continue to provide upgrades to their modular system in the future (improved sensor, wedge, continued software upgrades, etc.) I doubt I will ever need to buy a different 153mm astrograph in the future. If they release a larger aperture version of the Origin, I may be interested in that however.
Look, I'm sure you made a very educated decision when buying the Origin, given the price point. And it's great when it worked out and you like the product. But you are not fooling anybody, if you call an 18kg setup portable. And all your forecasting what Celestron might upgrade the Origin with is just wishful thinking..... Except you work for Celestron, you can't possibly know..... 😉 And btw - owning a Celestron CPC-800, I know what a wedge means, complexity and weight wise..... It really does not make this product more attractive....
@@viewintospace My definition of portable: I can move the scope easily from one location to another. Even if I have to take the OTA off the mount/tripod and move in 2 steps I can still do so in less than 3 minutes. Your definition of portable is likely different from mine. I do not work for Celestron. If they upgrade nothing on the product from what it is today, I am still a very happy consumer. Finally, yes ... I did make a very educated and well-thought-out decision to buy the Origin and am very happy with the purchase. My feedback is based on actual use of the Origin. I would not provide any feedback on a product without actually trying one first.
It doesnt have an equatorial mount it is way too expensive, it has a garbage camera it may be point and shoot but don't think it will produce APOD worthy images, it won't.
Thanks for your video. I completely agree with your opinion
The next "smart" upgrade someone could make (and make a lot of money in the process) would be a mount that can self-align. Press a button, and the mount would adjust the dec and ra similar to an auto-focuser. That would be a massive automation evolution for a German Equatorial Mount.
That already exists.... www.avalon-instruments.com/products-menu/upas
They already self-align after you choose how to use them.
I think you have made a convincing case. I look forward to seeing your set up video for the rig. Cost is still a concern for the setup, but it looks like a rig that can grow and change with the ‘hobby’.
So, one of the other advantages you highlighted for “smart scopes” is how inexpensive they are compared to the “big rigs”. So, how does your proposed configuration compare in price against the “big rigs”?
Good question! The rig as shown costs around USD 6000 - that is a bit more expensive than the Origin, but camera and mount wise you are at least one league above the Origin. As you know too, quality and low prices do not mix well in Astrophotography - so I think if someone whats to get better image quality, it has to be paid smart telescope or not.
He doesn't get it... He doesn't like normal people shooting stars. It needs to be arcane for him to be happy.
I never said Smart Scopes like the Seestar are dumb or do not have their place - I'm very happy that beginners, children, handicapped people, people on a budget and so on have a way to explore space. You make here some totally unfunded assumptions.... But Celestron tried with their Origin a new class of Smart Scope which is more expensive and which is for an entire other customer segment. And I explore in this video this class of Smart Scopes, without putting shade on the entry level.
Hi Sascha, I couldn‘t agree more. Maximal integration and minimal flexibility is a dead end in astrofotography. I would rather suggest a base system with maximal flexibility by maximal modularity with modules covering a broad range of options and which fit seamlesslessly, as capability and ambitions grow.
There are a couple of directions to head the development of smart scopes...
1. light and user friendly ... we cevered rhat one ...
2. taking the setup tome down while preserving some modularity.
on this subject i can only foresee a celestron say that can be modded for wider FOV and for deeper sky work like galxies and sh1 and arp objects ... i can only imagine the integration going into harmonic drives and computers to create automatic sky models like say PlaneWave on an alt az mount using some harmonic drive and a camera. if that mount can support 20-25 kg of gear ... i bet most of the market is sorted !
the Clestron 8 inch would be my first choice in terms of light weight and capability going from say FL 400 all the way to 2000 and with a Barlow... to 4000.
the choice of alt az is to do with grab your rig and dump it outside and after leveling with a bubble indicator let it do its thing while you're on the couch 😅
@1:55 - I would submit that a “smart scope” is smarter than what most people think comprises the entire “dumb” telescope, which is the OTA.
Now, you and I both know that a telescope includes much more than just the OTA, but I think a lot of the broader population of the planet doesn’t know that.
That is a great point and so for the novice the expression surely makes sense from that perspective
So smart phone is a phone that removes the need for a calendar, a camera, a gps, a torch, a compas etc etc etc.... A smart telescope is a telescope that removes the need for a mount, a camera, a guiding system, a power source, a filter wheel and automatic focuser. You are wrong.
Am I? If I take a traditional rig and put it in a cardboard box, can I call it then a smart scope, as you can not see the individual parts anymore? 😉 In your statement you focus way too much in integration and as I outlined in the video, for more expensive "smart" scopes exactly this integration point is the issue..... So I would not say I or you are wrong, but that we have a different idea of what makes a smart phone.
@@viewintospace nah... smart telescopes are here to stay, you are wrong and you don't understand smart as meaning way less cables, cost and complexity. No $500 astrophotography rig will come close to the Dwarf 3 or Seestar S50 heck find me a $500 mount? But you don't get that. They are dumb...
Thanks!
Thanks a lot - appreciated!
Best
I've been following you for a long time now, but in the last videos I've noticed that the images are blurry and not sharp.
Thanks for the feedback. Someone else told me that also recently and so I looked at the issue which is most likely that the background had a too low resolution which led to a blurry background when zooming in. I upscaled now the background and hope with the next videos this issue will be solved. YouTubing is like Astrophotography - as soon as you change something the issues start... 🤣
Also, I think at least some of the “smart” units have dew control & power already put together.
Yes, but you see, as soon as would integrate dew control into the scope, you could not freely change the scope anymore... And lets be real, adding a dew strip takes about 1 min....
@@viewintospace Both Celestron Origin and Vaonis machines have dew heaters.
@@Dekard911 So does the ZWO Seestar S50.
@@Dekard911 Yes, because they have the OTA integrated, which as I discussed in this video is not optimal. But for people who do not care about the non-exchangeable parts, these fully integrated scopes are for sure something to consider.
Great video, thank you! I'd like to point out that "Smartscopes" are useful too to open up our hobby to physically challenged people. I learned this the hard way when after suffering a Corona infection I could no longer handle my 25 kg rig. The SeeStar made all the difference between dropping out of the hobby or not. Considering further reduction of complexity of traditional rigs the integration of the focuser into the Scope seems like a logical step to me. You lose the possibility to switch the focuser between scopes but honestly I'm too lazy for this anyway. Looking forward to your report on your ASIAIR experience.
Great point!
I could also agree with your view.
But regarding flight, there is a problem with the power supply: not able to take a bigger LiFePo4 with you on a plane!
Good point - as I never travelled with my rig I have no clue how experienced Astro Travellers deal with this point...
That is not an all in one pro smart scope. Lol.
Agree - the "all in one" was added by you as this seems to be your implicit expectation of a smart scope. As stated, and also supported in some comments here, perhaps in these price ranges is "all in one" approach is not that optimal.....
@@viewintospace Yes but in your comparison - you are already an expert in the area so of course the Dwarf3, S50, Vespera doesn't seem smart to you as you can get up and running in a few minutes however you give someone new to Astronomy that equipment and they'd not be able to get up and running in 5 minutes. That's what is setting up the term for 'smart' scopes and lowering the barrier to entry to not have years of putting parts together to get into astronomy and astrophotography. It's like gate keeping and there's room for all of them. Myself I started last year on Vespera 2 and went out and got an EdgeHD8 because it made me want more.
While some of the points made are 'nebulous' I nonetheless also have the opinion that producing an expensive 'smart' telescope will have limited appeal. If ever I try to go more advanced I would much prefer to assemble my setup from components as you describe as it is not just about getting better images - but also the satisfaction of getting things all working together. By the way - my local astronomy supplier shipped over 100 low-end smart scopes in one batch recently - and there have been quite a number of batches. So - it's a brave you-tuber who dumps on the low-end smart telescopes as they may end up talking to a small minority of the growing astrophotography community despite the validity of their arguments. Full disclosure: I own several smart telescopes...
You will see in my next video my experience and opinion after using it - but your point fully resonates with me. For top quality I would also never give up my fully customized scope. About Seestar and alikes I did not "dump" on them - I fully see their purpose from low-budget entry to public outreach and many more. What I wanted to explore here is the advanced level smart scopes and yes, I'm brave enough to dump on the Origin, as I truly feel it missed the point...
@@viewintospace I look forward to the video. I enjoy very much your approach to such things. At this stage I think I will be remaining at the "low-budget entry" level because unless I can ever have a permanent observatory (not likely due to $) I cannot see I will be bothered hauling something heavy out and aligning it. I have an equatorial mount which I have failed to polar align here (southern hemisphere with sky glow to the south) on four attempts - so I didn't even get to mount a telescope. Frustrated by this failure I bought a Seestar. I had images within 5 minutes of my first try outside.