Mike, I very much appreciated your tutorial. I had previously purchased a n gauge steam loco 'Duchess of Hamilton' and the bogies kept derailing at a particular point, not every circuit but most. All other locos worked ok so it became very frustrating and I put the loco back in the siding and left it there. Thanks to your video I put a tiny file through the plastic point rail guard a few times and the loco now runs superbly, I have also tweaked a few points where the locos were jumping slightly and they are now much smoother. Many thanks I am one very happy grandad!
I really appreciate your sharing this video. I was having the problem but couldn't see it until I knew what to look for after watching your video. (I was convinced, incorrectly, that the OD of the flanges were rolling over the bottom/horizontal/floor part of the guard rail molding.) Following your tip I used a #11 hobby knife blade to "shave" plastic off of the vertical surface of the guard rail to correct the issue. Just a different tool to do the same thing shown here. Thanks again!
Was just checking to see if I did the right thing. I had the same problem. I did the same with a very thin file and it fixed all my atlas switches. No more bouncing or derailing. Good job. I will see if a dremmel cut off wheel is easier to work with.
Hi Mike - I model in HO and have not noticed this issue with any of my switches. However I do have a tip you might be able to use. Many times I break those cut-off wheels before they lose their "bite" and used to throw them away. But they would still work for how you use them. Since you are hand-holding the cut-off wheel, missing a chunk won't affect its' cutting ability. I know this tip will not save you enough to buy a new car, but hey, those pennies do add up. Hope this helps! SPGhost
Great tip! I think it also depends on your rolling stock wheels - some of the older “pizza cutter” wheels are better off being replaced. Also an NMRA gauge has a flange way side which can show you if clearances between guard rails and regular rails is too tight.
I have switched all of my wheels over to micro trains. That is the problem. If you notice in the video, it's the old style pizza cutter wheels. I also have some Kato SD40s that have the same problem. They run over top of the check rails. The switch is definitely a problem, but changing out to better wheels will help. I have gotten rid of all of my Atlas switches and gone strictly Peco.
I also noticed on some locos and rolling stock the flange's on the wheels might be slightly larger on different brands especially on locos this will cause the loco to rise up off the rails going through turnouts causing power loss
Hi. I will agree with comment below as well. Ive got $500 in Kato #4 switches and this solved it. Looked for a vid like this and couldn't find one and today wtf i do. Lol Thanks so much for sharing
Very interesting and informative. I have #4 insul-frog turnouts on my HO scale layout, and notice that the driving wheels on my largest locomotive (a 4-6-2 K4) tend to bounce whenever they hit the point of the frog. I'm wondering, then, how I can resolve this issue.
I have seen this happen a few times on my G scale and what I found was the plastic frog is molded to high. I take a thin file and file the plastic down on the frog. My problem is solved, Good tip
I think what happens the plastic shrinks in manufacturing changing the distance between the plastic flange and rail. Had this exact same problem with Atlas HO code 85 diamond crossings. I just used a file and filed out the plastic flange out enough for the wheels to pass through freely. Haven't had a problem with any turnouts though. But a good rule to follow is to gauge out track pieces before assembling track. Fix the problems before hand for better performance. :-)
Hello I love this video, particularly your advice for building model railroad benchwork . Something I also found useful for scratch building model railroad structures is Elumpa Railroad Buildings Alchemist - it should be on google if you need it
another thing that can do it is the wheels are out of gauge. Bachman and Microtrains cars can derail going over these switches. Atlas wheels don't have this problem but I have been converting my cars to metal wheels and they have gauge problems my suggestion is get a conversion kit and a NMRA gauge this is the leading cause of derailments. Another cause is joiners placed wrong. you don't want gaps this can cause shorts and the wheels can skip the joint. Make sure those joiners are connected and not above the rail or you can have a derailment.
Brake the end of old hacksaw blade off (with hole on end) close to same as cut off wheel, only faster. Works well in rerailers or cross overs. The left over blade is a free handle. (tape it for handle) machine bolt together.
Whenever I have an issue similar to this I break out the Wheel Back to Back Gauge, First! If only the odd piece of rolling stock mis-behaves then suspect the back to back. Depending on the quality of the wheelsets, it is a simple matter of springing the wheels from the bogies and "wringing" in or out to correct the dimension. Nominally for HO it is 14.5mm. Actually, before any piece of new equipment is run on my tracks, I run the gauge over them, and that includes locos. This can save you a lot of time. Pete
All cars are checked for weight and check the wheel spacing. This turnout was the only one that was giving problems. Comparing this turnout to the others I found the guard rail was tight to the rail. Opening this up brought the turnout to the same spacing as the other turnouts. The pizza cutter wheels highlighted the problem .
@@mike937739 Pizza cutter wheels are a major no no! They only last a second around here! But if you've bought a dud turnout, that can take a while to work out. Ask me how I know? Pete
If this only affects some of your rolling stock then the problem is more likely to be with the individual items that bounce rather than the turnout. Back to back dimensions are critical for smooth running through turnouts.
This was happening to number of cars and locomotives. The car in the video taped better than the others. All wheels were to standards so checked the turnout and found the problem.
@@mike937739 I've just started building points and crossings for my layout here in the UK and have had a few items of rolling stock having trouble negotiating the turnout, but things improved when I adjusted the B2B. The 00 R-T-R dimensions here can sometimes be wayward. Good to hear it fixed the issue for you and thanks for posting.
Mike, Nice find. Luckily I've not run into this issue with Atlas code 80 turnouts yet. One question, instead of using a cutoff disk, have you tried using a finger nail file? Not the metal ones but the cheap flexible ones found at most Pharmacies like CVS or Walgreen? The reason I ask, I'm wondering if it would have been better to just increase the gap between the guard rail and the tangent rail to 20 thousandths instead of 50 thousandths? Thanks again for the how to video. Rich aka RWSBaden.
I did not try a file because I was afraid of gouging the track with the file tip. I used the disc because it had a small contact area to the tracks. I have some old model power turnouts on my oldest section of track where the space is over .050 and have never any problems with them, so I went with the .050 disc. The hopper car was a resent train show purchase and will get better wheels at a later date.
From what I can tell, there looks to be a Combination of Flange Issues. Flangeway on Turnout may be a bit off. And the Wheel Flange looks to be quite large. I know, for Fact & from Experience, some Wheel Manufacturers make Large Flanges.
Great video! But I'm wondering if the issue wasn't so much the WIDTH of the gap in the plastic part of the turnout, but rather the DEPTH. Probably the edge of the cutoff wheel lowered the 'trough' allowing the pizza cutter flanges to pass through more easily.
Check the NMRA Standards web page to UNDERSTAND how the (very) important dimensions around the frog and guard rails work to ensure ZERO derailments in all circumstances. ONLY THEN make any needed corrections. www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-1.pdf
Very sensible and well presented and filmed.
Mike,
I very much appreciated your tutorial. I had previously purchased a n gauge steam loco 'Duchess of Hamilton' and the bogies kept derailing at a particular point, not every circuit but most. All other locos worked ok so it became very frustrating and I put the loco back in the siding and left it there.
Thanks to your video I put a tiny file through the plastic point rail guard a few times and the loco now runs superbly, I have also tweaked a few points where the locos were jumping slightly and they are now much smoother.
Many thanks I am one very happy grandad!
Glad to be of help.
I really appreciate your sharing this video. I was having the problem but couldn't see it until I knew what to look for after watching your video. (I was convinced, incorrectly, that the OD of the flanges were rolling over the bottom/horizontal/floor part of the guard rail molding.) Following your tip I used a #11 hobby knife blade to "shave" plastic off of the vertical surface of the guard rail to correct the issue. Just a different tool to do the same thing shown here. Thanks again!
Was just checking to see if I did the right thing. I had the same problem. I did the same with a very thin file and it fixed all my atlas switches. No more bouncing or derailing. Good job. I will see if a dremmel cut off wheel is easier to work with.
You just solved the problem I've had for a long time in a matter of minutes. Just happen to have a few of those Dremel cut off wheels. Fantastic!!
Glad to be of help.
Hi Mike - I model in HO and have not noticed this issue with any of my switches. However I do have a tip you might be able to use. Many times I break those cut-off wheels before they lose their "bite" and used to throw them away. But they would still work for how you use them. Since you are hand-holding the cut-off wheel, missing a chunk won't affect its' cutting ability. I know this tip will not save you enough to buy a new car, but hey, those pennies do add up. Hope this helps! SPGhost
Excellent tutorial, already has saved me a lot of frustration.
Great tip! I think it also depends on your rolling stock wheels - some of the older “pizza cutter” wheels are better off being replaced. Also an NMRA gauge has a flange way side which can show you if clearances between guard rails and regular rails is too tight.
Thanks for this video. I think this is definitely what I am experiencing with my turnouts.
I have switched all of my wheels over to micro trains. That is the problem. If you notice in the video, it's the old style pizza cutter wheels. I also have some Kato SD40s that have the same problem. They run over top of the check rails. The switch is definitely a problem, but changing out to better wheels will help. I have gotten rid of all of my Atlas switches and gone strictly Peco.
Peco is SOOOOOOO much better than Atlas.
GREAT tip, Mike! Most of us have a few cutoff wheels lying around...
Very clever!!
I saw your problem as soon as you pushed the car back and forward! Glad you found it! I can use this on my HO setup!
I also noticed on some locos and rolling stock the flange's on the wheels might be slightly larger on different brands especially on locos this will cause the loco to rise up off the rails going through turnouts causing power loss
Hi. I will agree with comment below as well.
Ive got $500 in Kato #4 switches and this solved it. Looked for a vid like this and couldn't find one and today wtf i do. Lol
Thanks so much for sharing
Thank you for this video and the solution. I think this is my train/turnout problem, my train keeps de railing at that spot. Thank you.
Very interesting and informative. I have #4 insul-frog turnouts on my HO scale layout, and notice that the driving wheels on my largest locomotive (a 4-6-2 K4) tend to bounce whenever they hit the point of the frog. I'm wondering, then, how I can resolve this issue.
Thanks. I have been having the same problem. Can’t wait to try it.
So many problems with. Y o gauge atlas switches. Nice video, I will try this
Great tip! I wonder if folded, light grit sandpaper would fit to prevent wearing the hard rail
This is what a NMRA gauge is for. You test the flange way and adjust to match the standard.
I have seen this happen a few times on my G scale and what I found was the plastic frog is molded to high. I take a thin file and file the plastic down on the frog. My problem is solved, Good tip
Thank you for the video this is going to help a lot!
I think what happens the plastic shrinks in manufacturing changing the distance between the plastic flange and rail. Had this exact same problem with Atlas HO code 85 diamond crossings. I just used a file and filed out the plastic flange out enough for the wheels to pass through freely. Haven't had a problem with any turnouts though. But a good rule to follow is to gauge out track pieces before assembling track. Fix the problems before hand for better performance. :-)
Hello I love this video, particularly your advice for building model railroad benchwork
. Something I also found useful for scratch building model railroad structures
is Elumpa Railroad Buildings Alchemist - it should be on google if you need it
another thing that can do it is the wheels are out of gauge. Bachman and Microtrains cars can derail going over these switches. Atlas wheels don't have this problem but I have been converting my cars to metal wheels and they have gauge problems my suggestion is get a conversion kit and a NMRA gauge this is the leading cause of derailments. Another cause is joiners placed wrong. you don't want gaps this can cause shorts and the wheels can skip the joint. Make sure those joiners are connected and not above the rail or you can have a derailment.
I never knew that thanks for teaching me this
Thanks Mike 4 the wonderful Video. It really helped me out. Life saver 4 sure.
Brake the end of old hacksaw blade off (with hole on end) close to same as cut off wheel, only faster. Works well in rerailers or cross overs. The left over blade is a free handle. (tape it for handle) machine bolt together.
I have had the same problem with atlas crossings. I used a dremel wheel just as you did.
FYI, that section of the switch is called a FROG.
Those fingernails are driving me nuts!
Thanks Mike, very interesting. I'll try that
Whenever I have an issue similar to this I break out the Wheel Back to Back Gauge, First!
If only the odd piece of rolling stock mis-behaves then suspect the back to back. Depending on the quality of the wheelsets, it is a simple matter of springing the wheels from the bogies and "wringing" in or out to correct the dimension. Nominally for HO it is 14.5mm.
Actually, before any piece of new equipment is run on my tracks, I run the gauge over them, and that includes locos. This can save you a lot of time.
Pete
All cars are checked for weight and check the wheel spacing. This turnout was the only one that was giving problems. Comparing this turnout to the others I found the guard rail was tight to the rail. Opening this up brought the turnout to the same spacing as the other turnouts. The pizza cutter wheels highlighted the problem .
@@mike937739 Pizza cutter wheels are a major no no! They only last a second around here! But if you've bought a dud turnout, that can take a while to work out. Ask me how I know?
Pete
i live in a harsh desert climate i was thinking of painting or staining my modular benchwork before i lay foam track etc
Good job!
If this only affects some of your rolling stock then the problem is more likely to be with the individual items that bounce rather than the turnout. Back to back dimensions are critical for smooth running through turnouts.
This was happening to number of cars and locomotives. The car in the video taped better than the others. All wheels were to standards so checked the turnout and found the problem.
@@mike937739 I've just started building points and crossings for my layout here in the UK and have had a few items of rolling stock having trouble negotiating the turnout, but things improved when I adjusted the B2B. The 00 R-T-R dimensions here can sometimes be wayward.
Good to hear it fixed the issue for you and thanks for posting.
Mike, Nice find. Luckily I've not run into this issue with Atlas code 80 turnouts yet. One question, instead of using a cutoff disk, have you tried using a finger nail file? Not the metal ones but the cheap flexible ones found at most Pharmacies like CVS or Walgreen? The reason I ask, I'm wondering if it would have been better to just increase the gap between the guard rail and the tangent rail to 20 thousandths instead of 50 thousandths? Thanks again for the how to video. Rich aka RWSBaden.
I did not try a file because I was afraid of gouging the track with the file tip. I used the disc because it had a small contact area to the tracks. I have some old model power turnouts on my oldest section of track where the space is over .050 and have never any problems with them, so I went with the .050 disc. The hopper car was a resent train show purchase and will get better wheels at a later date.
From what I can tell, there looks to be a Combination of Flange Issues.
Flangeway on Turnout may be a bit off. And the Wheel Flange looks to be quite large.
I know, for Fact & from Experience, some Wheel Manufacturers make Large Flanges.
Mike thanks for the tip cheers Robert
Informative. Thanks for sharing.
Great tip, thanks.
Excellent.
Are they N or HO. I've had a bunch of atlas N scale
judging from his finger I would say this is an N scale.
Those wheels look a bit thick which could probably hit the safety rails, causing it to bounce.
I always change out the pizza cutter wheels on my layout.
For the video those wheels showed the problem better.
Thanks for this im 😊n scale and i think im having the sam problem
Good video man! Are they ME turnouts? This has happened to people with them too. I've see this done with a little jewellers file too. Later, John
Atlas turnouts.
mike937739 vinny was right.
Great thanks
What gauge or scale is that? OO or HO or S?
N scale.
hi Mike... great how to .. are those atlas turnouts??? thanks for sharing.. vinny
Yes Atlas.
Great video! But I'm wondering if the issue wasn't so much the WIDTH of the gap in the plastic part of the turnout, but rather the DEPTH. Probably the edge of the cutoff wheel lowered the 'trough' allowing the pizza cutter flanges to pass through more easily.
I like it thx mike
Good tip, thx
Clever. Thx
Check the NMRA Standards web page to UNDERSTAND how the (very) important dimensions around the frog and guard rails work to ensure ZERO derailments in all circumstances. ONLY THEN make any needed corrections.
www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-1.pdf
What scale
N scale. The pizza cutter type wheels highlighted the problem.
🇬🇧👍👍👍👍
dobre
It’s clearly not the clearance that is the problem, it’s the fact that it’s N scale. N scale derails no matter what you do!
Is it because there to small?
Not true, if one is careful laying track and checking/adjusting track and wheels with an NMRA standards gauge on the turnout and the wheels.
TastyCheesestick i
It might be the case that N scale derails no matter what YOU do, but I and many other N scalers have no such problems.
can... you.. talk... any... slower...?...
Thomas Smith. Mile you on Valium or Prozac
Try listening faster.