Love the channel but always a sad day when you need to spend precious time justifying everything you do in anticipation of the negative commenters. It's your channel! Work it the way you want to work it.
Main thing to keep in mind: Keith got 'er done. You don't need rocket science precision for a job such as this. One has to pick the battle to fight, and this isn't one to fight.
I have a old lathe here at work with a freq. drive, I made an attachment for the wire feed welder. I can run the lathe at at crawl, engage the feed, slide up a zip tie on the trigger and it starts welding. I just stand back keep an eye on it through my hood and it does all the work. I do about 3 passes so that when I machine it I don’t get any divots. The hardwire doesn’t machine as good as acralloy but it does the job. My latest weldup was a big spanner nut that I had to change the thread pitch. I stuck it in my weldup lathe, welded the inside, then stuck it in my other lathe machined it and rethreaded it to 12tpi.
@@forbesmathews89 I use a bare welding lead which is about a foot long that I hook the ground on. It hangs and rides on the shaft or whatever I’m welding. I don’t hook the ground on the lathe.
Was watching DVD "Sergeant York" the other night and in one of the scenes where Sgt York is going around asking for work to get money for his bottom land, the farmer he is talking to is running cane through one of these mills being turned by a donkey. Very cool to see one in action. Back breaking as you have to squat or sit under the bar going around over your head. Love the work you are doing here, we need to preserve our history. Thanks for sharing.
Nice fix. The degree of grinding, welding, and machining fit the needs perfectly. Babbitt bearings are very forgiving. Any more precision would be a waste of time. Bob
Love your videos Keith!!! I don't know what it is about men and metalworks, I just love watching and doing it myself. Just curious, since I am a Yankee and your use of the word "holiday" to describe a void in the shaft, it that a common southern usage? Anyone? I like to discover localizations of words when I hear them.
I've heard it used in Tennessee, California, and Oregon, Big Lapua. A wheel&tire took a holiday on a trailer we were pulling once upon a time... Words are fun.
@@5x535 My grandparents told a story years ago about how they were driving down hill somewhere in southern California and a wheel passed them... it took them a minute or so to realize it was one of the four on the trailer they were towing! Would have been in the 30's I think.
I'm a yankee, my dad and his dad were yankees. I have heard "holiday" used in all of my 72 years!. First time I remember was when we had a painting project. My dad would go around looking for missed spots or "holidays" as he called them.
Kurtis at cutting edge does a lot of welding like this. When it comes to shafts like this a 7014 rod works very well for build up and machining. Mig, without special wire, ehhh sorta works but your shaft can be hardened. For a critical job you would anneal the shaft.
@@paulcopeland9035 I wasn’t being serious. It was the fact that everyone seems to want to try that method. Just like how everyone has to have a shaper. I’ve never even seen a shaper in real life.
@3:45 those rollers are actually a balancing set. Note how the heavy spot on that part wants to find its low point. I actually have a tiny set for my R/C toys and I can balance, cup, and knife edge a tiny brass/bronze boat prop that's about 1.5" across! And airplane propellers and so on of course. 😁
Have you ever considered converting the Sugarcane Presses to accept new bearings like Roller Bearings? Would that be too expensive to do? Just a thought. I’ve never been around these kind of equipment.
perhaps machining between centres would have made less funky vibration, that tailstock was wobbling like mad, like the other end wasn't in the chuck straight.
Keith, HGR has a Monarch model K, I believe built in 1963, in pretty good condition for cheap. I'm sure some of your viewers would be interested. It's on their website have a look.
@@peterhobson3262 effing brilliant comment, it welded and helded or got the job done. I use to weld like a legend out of college and in industry. begining of industry the setting would sometimes mean i blew a hole welding. i would bridge the shit out of that and get it back but over time i learnt to weld on the edge it glew red it was so hot and seemed and i never blew through a hole anymore. point is a year later a life move to another area, couldn't get back in the industry, took other work. and the years past and i got rusty. shitty welds with a cheapo welder lots of grinder action and reweld. i could weld with like legend at home back in the day when i was a pro, but it always got the job done with the lost skill. even bought a mig welder and expensive quality lincoln electric back in britain to get me welding beter. not much lol. you know what? recently after years of just bodging it by the skills are kicking back in, in a way i didn't see surging. Mr Rucker and anyone else you keep practicing and just getting by like a no pro. them skills are going up sooner or later, and best of all your worst was still working otherwise why keep at it.
Probably not. Adam mentioned a while back that the spray welding was good to build up the surface to 80 thousands. I think the voids on the shaft were too deep. Keith mentioned almost 1/4" in some spots.
Looks good,Keith.A piece of bar stock clamped to the table to rest your arm on,would make the welding a lot easier. I would probably preheat the shaft before welding.
Yep, I was thinking the same thing, a pipe Jack stand. I like bar stock idea too. Little things make the job better for yourself a 2x4 from the floor the right height.
Something looks "off" with that live center. Is the live center damaged, it seems as if there is a lot of runout at the center. It almost seems as if the Morse taper socket isn't seating corretly.
I would think one of the hardest things with a task like this is having the discipline not to take the turning-down too far. I don't think I would have that!!! I would have turned this down way too far and then had a terrible job getting the drive cogs to fit again!
So Keith, when you weld and turn shafts like that, does the heat effect the metallurgy? Specifically in some adverse way? thanks for the video AND advice!
For things like this, the welds don't need to be all that pretty. I do think that first insert might have had a broken tip. Hard to tell if it was just a shadow.
I’ve seen this sort of thing done where the weld beads were done along the axis of the shaft. Any particular reason to do it that way, even though it’s more likely to induce chatter?
Good grief! Even the live center is wobbling about like a duck on dry land. And grinding and welding an axle... You turn the bad stuff down and build a uniform weld. Another Mr. Godenuf job.
@@Peter_Riis_DK Exactly, it might only last a few hundred thousand revs before they have to repour it. That's only about 5-10 thousand hours service life, that mule, and his son, and his grandson, are going to get pretty tired. Fortunately we have you here to straighten us all out.
GOOD example of the old days Cane Mill working in the movie Sargent York, it was on RUclips, it is before he goes off to war and after the shooting match.
Love the channel but always a sad day when you need to spend precious time justifying everything you do in anticipation of the negative commenters. It's your channel! Work it the way you want to work it.
I’ve often had the same thought.
Main thing to keep in mind: Keith got 'er done. You don't need rocket science precision for a job such as this. One has to pick the battle to fight, and this isn't one to fight.
Exactly - the bearing runs at a few RPM, and the lubricant is a mix of cane syrup and dirt! This is a farm implement, not a jet turbine.
@@brettbuck7362
I think they’re supposed to put oil or grease on them.
Kith,
again you did it right !!! the copper strap for the ground. Never let welding current pass through a bearing or slide.
A grinder and paint makes you the welder you ain't! Those are my words to live by!
Yup. Pity you can't paint bearing surfaces, huh? 😄
My dad restored one like this years ago. And then grew some cane and milled it. I can still taste that cane syrup.
Good afternoon Keith from the UK, time for a coffee 😁
Getting used to His Majesty King Charles III?
Great Job!!!
Two clamps on the table edge would work as a guide to stop the roller shaft from swiveling as you rotate it on the rollers.
I have a old lathe here at work with a freq. drive, I made an attachment for the wire feed welder. I can run the lathe at at crawl, engage the feed, slide up a zip tie on the trigger and it starts welding. I just stand back keep an eye on it through my hood and it does all the work. I do about 3 passes so that when I machine it I don’t get any divots. The hardwire doesn’t machine as good as acralloy but it does the job. My latest weldup was a big spanner nut that I had to change the thread pitch. I stuck it in my weldup lathe, welded the inside, then stuck it in my other lathe machined it and rethreaded it to 12tpi.
I hope you use a copper strap and did not pass the welding current through your lathe's bearings.
@@forbesmathews89 I use a bare welding lead which is about a foot long that I hook the ground on. It hangs and rides on the shaft or whatever I’m welding. I don’t hook the ground on the lathe.
Was watching DVD "Sergeant York" the other night and in one of the scenes where Sgt York is going around asking for work to get money for his bottom land, the farmer he is talking to is running cane through one of these mills being turned by a donkey. Very cool to see one in action. Back breaking as you have to squat or sit under the bar going around over your head.
Love the work you are doing here, we need to preserve our history. Thanks for sharing.
Keith, from the video you can see your live center is broken or bent, it wobbles. Maybe give it a check, make sure it is ok.
Five minutes into the video I thought, "There's gonna be a lotta woulda, shoulda, coulda comments on this one." My opinion? You do you.
Nice fix. The degree of grinding, welding, and machining fit the needs perfectly. Babbitt bearings are very forgiving. Any more precision would be a waste of time.
Bob
it needs to be very forgiving
@@johncollins2037 Why do you say that?
Looks great Mr. Rucker...
Love your videos Keith!!! I don't know what it is about men and metalworks, I just love watching and doing it myself.
Just curious, since I am a Yankee and your use of the word "holiday" to describe a void in the shaft, it that a common southern usage? Anyone? I like to discover localizations of words when I hear them.
I've heard it used in Tennessee, California, and Oregon, Big Lapua. A wheel&tire took a holiday on a trailer we were pulling once upon a time... Words are fun.
@@5x535 My grandparents told a story years ago about how they were driving down hill somewhere in southern California and a wheel passed them... it took them a minute or so to realize it was one of the four on the trailer they were towing! Would have been in the 30's I think.
I'm a yankee, my dad and his dad were yankees. I have heard "holiday" used in all of my 72 years!. First time I remember was when we had a painting project. My dad would go around looking for missed spots or "holidays" as he called them.
Thanks again my friend Keith....Looking good on the shaft weld up and turned down....
Shoe🇺🇸
14:15 ... Beautiful!! .. Just goes to show, these kind of restores can be done with basic shop machinery!
Nice work Keith
that tailstock is not enjoying this lol
KEITH, TELL EVERYBODY HELLO AND THE CATS AND DOGS, GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO...
Those W inserts are great for an interrupted cut Keith.
Relax guys, this is not Keith's first rodeo. He does it his way and I am sure he will not find fault with your ways.
Lovin the presentation. Quality workmanship.
Shiny like new.
Thank you sir ! I love it . From an old mechanic.
Kurtis at cutting edge does a lot of welding like this. When it comes to shafts like this a 7014 rod works very well for build up and machining. Mig, without special wire, ehhh sorta works but your shaft can be hardened. For a critical job you would anneal the shaft.
True, but this is youtube so the correct answer is to spray weld it.
@@engineerwrecker8153 One of those shaft ends was pitted way too deep for "spray weld". Spray weld is a wonderful repair, but it is not magic!
@@paulcopeland9035 I wasn’t being serious. It was the fact that everyone seems to want to try that method. Just like how everyone has to have a shaper. I’ve never even seen a shaper in real life.
Thanks for sharing
@3:45 those rollers are actually a balancing set. Note how the heavy spot on that part wants to find its low point. I actually have a tiny set for my R/C toys and I can balance, cup, and knife edge a tiny brass/bronze boat prop that's about 1.5" across! And airplane propellers and so on of course. 😁
Have you ever considered converting the Sugarcane Presses to accept new bearings like Roller Bearings? Would that be too expensive to do? Just a thought. I’ve never been around these kind of equipment.
The new bearings will outlast the owners interest in it. I doubt anybody is concerned.
Looks like a good build up for the turning of the shaft.
A grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't I always say.
Good weld job, Keith! Wish I could do that well.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👀
Thanks Keith
perhaps machining between centres would have made less funky vibration, that tailstock was wobbling like mad, like the other end wasn't in the chuck straight.
Keith, HGR has a Monarch model K, I believe built in 1963, in pretty good condition for cheap. I'm sure some of your viewers would be interested. It's on their website have a look.
Keith could really use the rotary ground clamp Kurtis at CEE built.
And his welding skills. 😉
To be fair Keith’s lash up took no time at all to do and worked. If he was doing loads then by all means spend the time and effort on a nice setup.
I'm not a welder, either. But if you can say, "I welded, it helded" then that's all you need! Those look great!
Keith built the shafts up and then cut them down. That's what was wanted and what he did.
@@peterhobson3262 effing brilliant comment, it welded and helded or got the job done.
I use to weld like a legend out of college and in industry. begining of industry the setting would sometimes mean i blew a hole welding. i would bridge the shit out of that and get it back but over time i learnt to weld on the edge it glew red it was so hot and seemed and i never blew through a hole anymore. point is a year later a life move to another area, couldn't get back in the industry, took other work. and the years past and i got rusty. shitty welds with a cheapo welder lots of grinder action and reweld. i could weld with like legend at home back in the day when i was a pro, but it always got the job done with the lost skill. even bought a mig welder and expensive quality lincoln electric back in britain to get me welding beter. not much lol. you know what? recently after years of just bodging it by the skills are kicking back in, in a way i didn't see surging.
Mr Rucker and anyone else you keep practicing and just getting by like a no pro. them skills are going up sooner or later, and best of all your worst was still working otherwise why keep at it.
Don’t knock yourself cause you done a far better job than I could
This would be a good fit for abom’s spray welding rig.
Probably not. Adam mentioned a while back that the spray welding was good to build up the surface to 80 thousands. I think the voids on the shaft were too deep. Keith mentioned almost 1/4" in some spots.
Looks good,Keith.A piece of bar stock clamped to the table to rest your arm on,would make the welding a lot easier. I would probably preheat the shaft before welding.
Yep, I was thinking the same thing, a pipe Jack stand. I like bar stock idea too. Little things make the job better for yourself a 2x4 from the floor the right height.
Would love to see the mills in action.
Old machines in old shop: Lift Arc Studios, How I Renovated An Abandoned Machine Shop (FULL SERIES)
Something looks "off" with that live center. Is the live center damaged, it seems as if there is a lot of runout at the center. It almost seems as if the Morse taper socket isn't seating corretly.
Hey Keith, u once interviewed some US pilots. Do u met the pilots, who droped the little boys over Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Who made the balancing ways you have there? I used to build the Anderson Bros A-frame model. Tedious build but really interesting process.
I would think one of the hardest things with a task like this is having the discipline not to take the turning-down too far. I don't think I would have that!!! I would have turned this down way too far and then had a terrible job getting the drive cogs to fit again!
Almost seemed like we welded cast iron with steel wire. Maybe silicon bronze, or nickel. Even brazing in some bronze.
Adam B would have dialed those journals in to the tenth of a thousandth.
Turn your heat down , you dont need tons of penetration for build up work.....
I was thinking the same.Penetration is not a concern. I have set the voltage/speed for welding 1/4” ,one shafts that large without a problem.
these are some mini rollers
Someone needs to buy Keith a welding cap. :)
a cap will not improve the weld😭
@@johncollins2037 Not why I suggested it. His bald head needs protection.
So Keith, when you weld and turn shafts like that, does the heat effect the metallurgy? Specifically in some adverse way? thanks for the video AND advice!
Did you ever think about turning down the journal and sleeving it?
Why?
For things like this, the welds don't need to be all that pretty. I do think that first insert might have had a broken tip. Hard to tell if it was just a shadow.
It's a cane mill not the space shuttle
I’ve seen this sort of thing done where the weld beads were done along the axis of the shaft. Any particular reason to do it that way, even though it’s more likely to induce chatter?
Inexperience?
@@Peter_Riis_DK not in the cases I was thinking of - must’ve been well over 100 years combined experience between the welder/machine shop
@@emmajacobs5575
Fair enough - perhaps they don't have the equipment to rotate the shaft while welding?
They don't have to be pretty. I've built up my share of dozer under carriage parts. The weld just has to stick and stay.
Good grief! Even the live center is wobbling about like a duck on dry land. And grinding and welding an axle... You turn the bad stuff down and build a uniform weld. Another Mr. Godenuf job.
Sure, you really need some high precision work in a 3 rpm shaft running in babbitt, good comment!
@@brettbuck7362
You're right. That babbit will hold forever because of the pits and runout in that bearing surface and weld. Great answer. 😁
@@Peter_Riis_DK Exactly, it might only last a few hundred thousand revs before they have to repour it. That's only about 5-10 thousand hours service life, that mule, and his son, and his grandson, are going to get pretty tired. Fortunately we have you here to straighten us all out.
@@brettbuck7362
Yes, it is a true blessing. May the force be with you, live long and prosper. 🖖
Peter Riis.......what does god have to do with this?
Oh boy, here come all the armchair experts telling us how he should have done this.
How else is he going to figure it out?
Don't know who said it but...."Grinding and Paint hides the Welder I ain't".
I did.
among many other thousands.
AVE said it first on YT. My grandfather called it “painting the ugliness out of it” not the same but close.
@@bulletproofpepper2 Ah yes AVE ...should have guessed.
GOOD example of the old days Cane Mill working in the movie Sargent York, it was on RUclips, it is before he goes off to war and after the shooting match.
cant you sleeve the 2 axles? turning them down than sleeve it and than turning them down to the right size
Why?
@@paulcopeland9035 why welding?