Would You Do it Yourself? | Alex O'Connor | TEDxINSA
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- In his TEDx talk, Alex puts forward the case against factory farming and its cruelty. He questions humanity’s ethics and moral code and asks a simple question : Would you do it yourself ? Alex J. O’Connor is founder of the “Cosmic Skeptic” RUclips channel, podcast and blog, platforms dedicated to the publication of philosophical ideas and debates in an accessible format.
A recent graduate of philosophy and theology from St. John’s College, Oxford University, Alex is an international public speaker and debater, having delivered addresses across multiple continents at conferences, universities, and local drinking groups, as well as debated ethics, religion, and politics with a number of high-profile opponents before college audiences, on radio talk shows and on national television.
Alex’s online videos have been collectively viewed around fifty million times, attracting over 450,000 people to subscribe to his regular content. He has produced videos with notable experts in respected fields, such as Peter Singer, Richard Dawkins, Bishop Robert Barron, and William Lane Craig. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
as a vegan of almost 7 years now, i feel vindicated and grateful to know such a great thinker on my side of ethics and practice. i'm sure he will grow up to be an incredibly influential figure in the future of moral discussion on a global scale. much love Alex 💛
Same here
He is grown up, much more so than most "grown ups."
Exactly!
@@SimonTheWattopian Well hopefully he grows up more then and when he grows up is a positive benefit to the world assuming he is already.
I was so happy when he became vegan! Such a vindication!
At this point, I feel, Alex deserves more recognition. He’s been at it for a while and it’s only fair that he blows up yet again. His early years were impressive, and that has only escalated recently.
Absolutely!
If you deleted my comment. You must have no idea who Christopher Hitchens is…
@@AirScottyfpv
Alex doesn’t delete comments. This channel probably does.
@@AirScottyfpv Who does not know who Christopher Hitchens was - could listen to him for days. Much missed.
I'm a student at INSA Lyon where he gave this talk, and I am soooo sad I discovered his channel only a week after the event, I could have met the man who made me a vegan
I'm sure you'll have other chances. He's at the Vegan Campout 2023
My boy!
When will you have alex back on the podcast?
"If veganism radical it's an exercise in radical compassion" Damn that hit me hard. Compelling talk beginning to end that's making me check my moral compass.
I was a vegetarian my whole life but after listening to you Alex, I couldn't morally justify eating dairy products. I had to go Vegan. Keep up the excellent work!
One of the greatest TED Talks of all time. Instantly became a vegan again after watching it.
Lets go
Again?
@@chlorophyllphile Yes. I was vegan from birth until about 10 years old. Then vegetarian from 10-13. After that I started eating meat occasionally to varying degrees. Now I’m 35 and I eat meat sparingly, but this talk has convinced me to become vegan again immediately, eating as few animal products as is practical. Once synthetic meat becomes ubiquitous, this will no longer be an issue, but until then, this is the very least I can try to do.
@@LionElAtonArt Good for you. You might want to watch his video 'A meat eaters case for veganism' too. It's from the same guy just before he went vegan.
@@LionElAtonArt what's preventing you from giving up eating non-human animals entirely?
Thank you for standing up for the voiceless Alex. We went vegan last year. You were big contributor to our choice . Keep your work.
This guy convinced me we should be vegan. It's difficult sometimes but every time I watch Alex's videos my veganism is strengthened
Enjoy your suffering ''for the animals'' than. Me, on the other hand, i feel the best i've ever been on my 85% meat-based diet. Veganism is malnutrition, and we CANT live a HEALTHY life on a vegan diet. With the vegan diet + supplements you will just merely survive, maybe, but most probably you will get sick and be in constant pain (and if not initially, guaranteed later on)... you would never maximize your own health on a vegan diet. For that you need animal food.
@@UrielCopy skill issue
@@mart664 ?
@@UrielCopy somehow i have replied to the wrong comment (i have the skill issue)
I love how he doesn't attack people for eating meat. He simply shows them how they themselves wish to become vegan an invites them to switch sides in such a clear and welcoming way. Alex is just so well spoken.
Non-vegans interpret the strangest things as "attacks" on them and their habits. Funny people.
Sorry but he does attack them. He creates false arguments for anthropomorphizing animals, creates narrow conclusions based on his definitions, and railroads listeners into his conclusions. Pretty much the same thing door-to-door sales people do, they don't ask open-ended questions for truth, they create leading questions to force you to their ends which is what he does in this talk. :(
This talk is haunting me just like how Sam harris's talk about morality (it is also on Ted x platform) haunted me. Deeply touching and forcing relentlessly to rethink my position... Bravo Alex...❤️
@@chanting_germ. he's not impressed, just honest with himself and morally consistent. If you are those two things you can't not be haunted by this. It's literally impossible to reason your way out of some of the arguments and your only choice is to change your behaviour.
@@chanting_germ. if someone has never thought about these things then, yeah it'll be something new to impress upon them.. both wrong with having your mind changed. You say it as though he needs to be ashamed.
I really hope people will listen to this with an open heart and an open mind. The more you learn about eating animals and using them as products, the more you'll understand how horrible and unnecessary and cruel this is. Great job Alex.
It's in our nature to take a whole animal's life even many for a single meal if you did it you'd not like it sure but wouldn't feel bad and you'd do it again
@@davidevans3223 exactly, these extremist vegans are absolutely insane. I've eaten tons of dogs and people on twitter keep complaining to me about how eating dogs is immoral and inhumane, but I just eat an extra dog just for them.
@@BlueMysteryGaming I'm exactly the same but I mainly eat dolphins and elephants. Their meat just tastes better.
It’s only ‘naturally’ in us because we used to rely on hunting to survive. If you are referring to evolution, of course. It was necessary for us to survive because we did not have the ability yet to survive solely plant based, otherwise we would have starved. And as we probably all agree, we always try to minimize our suffering, so killing animals was necessary to reduce our pain.
But look at it now.
As Alex hinted, we do not rely on hunting anymore for our survival. Food has become abundant for us living in the west. Endless options everywhere. And this includes the plant based section, which is so large that we can survive entirely of that.
Hence, nobody (in the west) is starving anymore, therefore it is not necessary to kill animals anymore.
@@ponzopa yea about that I'm a vegan lol, I just wanted to see how he would react if I told him I treat dogs like he treats farm animals.
Alex is inspirational by how he acted in alignment with the conclusions about morality that his philosophy led him to. I think the openness to have one's mind changed is one of the greatest human virtues.
Eternally grateful for you Alex. You are literally the hero of those who cannot speak up for themselves. Thank you for everything you do.
I'm so happy we have someone like alex on our side! he's so intelligent with the way he delivered all these ideas
Were all young people as intelligent, considered and coherent as Alex there'd be more hope for humanity...
100%
Even if they took an opposite view .
@@reluctantheist5224 What would this opposite view look like, out of curiosity?
@@finlybenyunes8385 I don't have one. I meant only that if our young people were as intelligent, considered and coherent as Alex here there would be more hope for humanity even if they held a view opposite to mine.
@@reluctantheist5224 Understood and thank you! 🐱
Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt one of the most brilliant, insightful and humane TED talks ever. I have nothing but admiration for this man and what he says 👏🙏
Hey Philip
It seems we have similar interests! Would you mind checking your emails regarding some acting coaching?
Thanks
Hope you are keeping well!
Sean
@@musicbyseanalexander Hi Sean. I will try to and try to get back to you but at the moment acting work is so busy I have a little time for teaching, but thanks for flagging this up. I'll do my best to get back to you properly sometime soon as I can. All the best for now. Philip.
@@philiproschactor Hi Philip. Thanks for this. Appreciate how busy life can get! Thank you for this message. All the best with the acting!
@@musicbyseanalexander Thank you Sean. Please do keep in touch. I hope when things are a bit quieter for me that I may be able to help you out a bit more.🙏
@@philiproschactor Hi Philip. I will keep in contact each month. Hope all the acting is going well. Look forward to potentially working with you!
I’ve been a vegetarian my whole life and since I’ve watched your other TedTalk I’ve swapped milk with oatmilk and am currently trying to reduce dairy products as much as possible. Thank you for your impact, I’m sure many people here will have had similar experiences. The way you articulate and make your point clear is really convincing in an non-forceful way. It kind of reminds me of Socrates' dialog form.
Great job! I hope you can find alternatives for all animal products :) good luck! I was Vegetarian for 10 years before I went vegan 1 year ago, I decided there are things like butter and eggs and cheese that I don’t even need to replace because I didn’t really need those products, so many more options out there!
@@iMykie thank you! It’s not always easy to get the right things and sometimes they are quite costly. But I’ve noticed it’s gotten better in the past few years :)
just dont buy dairy problem solved. You dont need to buy alternatives just eat something else
@@lorissupportguides I don’t substitute as I’ve not eaten meat before. But things as noodles almost always have eggs in them for example, that’s my point.
@@sarana6045 no pasta has no eggs its wheat and water
Watch Dominion on RUclips. Seeing the footage of the farms and slaughter will likley make you realise this is a moral emergency.
I made it half way through and it is terrifying I think people that like meat will just question how much of the industry is like what is seen in the video. I live in a rural area where cows just graze in the pasture and most ranchers seem more caring towards animals than what is seen I think you'd have a hard time convincing many people to give up meat because while the animals have a short life it's probably not completely terrible.
It's propaganda well done it fooled me for a short time
This was the first time vegan talk has compelled me.
Eloquent and impactful.
Well spoken and elaborated on Alex. Fair play.🌠🌱🧠
Gosh this is so good. It's Alex who made me think about what moral and ethical principles I support by eating what I eat. And his argumentation still amazes me.
Fantastic! Thank you, Alex ❤️
Brilliantly compelling.
Alex, I adore the work you do. thank you for using your exceptional intelligence to help the animals 💜
Brilliant talk. Bravo, Alex! France is way behind on veganism, so it’s a good place to speak about this issue.
When you are an over 50 year old right wing, atheist, conservative bone head type of person and you look forward to these videos because you're a vegan too.
I’ll be there in 15 years!
I'm only 45 and Libertarian, but veganism is the dominant moral imperative of our time, overriding all other political divisions.
I'm a 20 year old trans anarchist and I'm vegan too.
For food, if you give me a gun to shoot the animal in the head when it's not looking I would do it. I wouldn't do it for fun.
Vegans will have better luck convincing factory farmers to not ill treat the animals than to shut down their factories.
Don't plants have life too. What about the plants that eat animals. Sure plants don't feel pain like we do. But if you kill the animal painlessly won't that work. His arguments are weak.
Capitalism is what’s keeping companies from stopping animal cruelty
Walking into France and telling everyone to be a vegan. ballsy man
Still Less ballsy than earthling Ed walking into Texas and telling everyone to go vegan XD
@@vaibhavyadav9912 both amazing no?
@@shannaveganamcinnis-hurd405 Yes
@@vaibhavyadav9912 yet, there are vegans in Texas. Ed was only here a few days. We deal with it 24/7. Ed got to go home. This IS our home.
thank you alex! 🌱
Great speech!
Alex O'Connor is the most brilliant RUclipsr I've ever come across.
Thank you!
Loved this!
Thank You Alex. I thought you were going to make a mark on the world when your channel was young, several years back. Im glad to have discovered your work. Keep doing what you do.
Thank you, Alex.
Excellent talk!
RIP Alex, please come back for us.
What an awesome talk!
Cosmique Skeptique :o
Good job Alex!
Logic and sound. I agree with everything you say. Most people do, if they think hard enough.
The problem is, most people aren't actually that concerned with being good people. ^^
Very strong arguments... Of course it's not true that these other forms of milk are free of ethical dilemmas. The almond milk or any other milk requires the death and displacement of animals and also messes with the environment as we directly interfer with biodiversity. Same can be said of any kind of mass cultivation for plant matter or mining for fuel. You are absolutely right about the facts on the ground. Not driving a car, not having children would go some way to achieving the goal of lessening suffering. Your removal from the process makes it less of a moral consideration for most people, as pointed out here. If you have a child you are directly contributing to suffering. I don't know what Alex's position on antinatalism is, or if he drives a car or takes flights to travel to give a lecture. But what I know for sure is none of us can operate in the modern world without causing suffering from a distance. It very clearly laid out that it's brutal to be a carnivore. Problem is life is brutal no matter what you do. You can reduce suffering to some extent, sure. If you really went to philosophical bedrock on this it would be the most 'ethical' thing to do to cleanse the universe of sentient beings by not creating them to begin with. This is clearly not about to occur. It's not a naturalistic fallacy to bring up nature being "red in tooth and claw". The only places that exist where no suffering occurs by intent or indirectly is the vast majority of planets upon which no life is present. I'm certainly not attempting to make a counter argument. I'm simply stating that ethics are constructions of far from perfect beings. It's nigh impossible to arrive at a truly ethical system upon which everyone can align themselves and if we are determined in our every move by genetics, environment etc. We are condemned, not to be free but rather to contribute in some way or another to the net total of unnecessary harm. "And I think to myself, 'what a wonderful world'"
Thank you for this excellent video.Have been trying to be vegetarian for years but it’s so hard when you’re anemic getting that balance right and not feeling horrible.This is the way forward!
Veganism is rising and thriving while carnism is trying and dying!
Wrong
@@neozeon2567 which part is wrong?
@@bazileia9222 veganisn is
@@neozeon2567 why do say that? How is veganisn wrong?
@@neozeon2567 veganism isnt wrong, dude... you're just stuck in the past with vlad the impaler.
This young man should probably have a channel.
He does. It's called Cosmic Skeptic. ^^
Absolutely brilliant 🌱
Yes!
Well said !!
Epic Alex!
Good job! Excellent
Excellent speech!
Epic job!
SO good.
Brilliant....again
A great talk.
Bumping this up in the algorithm.
Why is he the most damn convincing person I’ve ever met.
Audio bugging sometimes after a couple of minutes
Good talk
almost 6 years vegan and have NEVER regretted a single moment!!
Respect. Any tips on how to get started? I'm fully convinced that veganism is the only molarry right position to have but I am struggling to become a vegan. Is there a way to solve this cognitive dissonance?
Yes.
Great points ngl
Wow
*two minutes in
Oh Alex is giving a talk not about Veganism
*4 minutes in
Nevermind
How did you not see it coming lol
The problem is the industrialized factory farms. I don’t see a problem, for a family that owns a cow or two, and some chicken, you can harvest the eggs and excess milk, and meat.
Well this is awkward
*Alex I am a huge fan of you so please don't take this comment the wrong way if you read this, all I want to do is offer some constructive feedback that's all.*
In terms of delivery this could be Alex's best speech yet and overall many important things were said but I feel like the message could be quite misleading to some people. There is a strong focus on factory farming throughout and yes he's right that it is the vast majority of animal farming, but from a non-vegans perspective I think they could easily assume that he's not condemming other farms? All of these animals will be taken to a slaughterhouse at a fracture of their age and killed in the exact same ways and I doubt many people would be willing to do that themselves either.
And I know that Alex doesn't consider this to be moral either but I wish he just made that clear in this speech too, it would be tragic to think people have watched this thinking that they these farms/slaughterhouses are completley fine to support.
Also at 13:16 he says "Radical Compassion" which isn't really the correct term because being vegan is of course not an act of compassion. Not harming/killing someone isn't a kind thing to do it's simply a non action. I often see that 'Compassion & Empathy' are confused when these words actually have very different meanings.
I'm sure some of you won't like that I'm criticizing here and you probably wan't to say things like 'well why don't you go do a better job yourself then'. The truth is I know I could never do this, I could never talk to a crowd with confidence like this or write a speech so well structured. I just want Alex to have the best impact he can to reduce animal suffering and it would be a shame if people left this video misunderstanding anything. Non factory farmed animals are suffering too and we can't ignore this fact.
Nah man those are good points. I could argue that when he said veganism was an act of "radical compassion" he might have been refering to the perspective other non vegans have of veganism, next to being extreme and all, which was pretty much what he was talking about at that moment, but who knows. And yeah he should have focused a bit more on the fact that 1% of happy farms are still not good at all. Yup I agree, he probably would too, good points and great ted talk anyway.
@@mindmoths Ok yeah now reflecting on the radical compassion part maybe it was reffering to a non vegan point of view which makes a lot more sense. I was also thinking about the fact that on factory farms these animals are growing much bigger and much faster, so to meet the same demand of factory farmed animal meat these smaller farms would actually have breed quite a lot more. But not all animals as sheep seem to be farmed the same way throughout for example.
100% agree.
Very good points. Open, good faith discussion is healthy, and I think Alex's audience is full of open people!
I do worry about muddying the term vegan, I don't want it to become known as a diet eg. rather than a philosophy. But I think if we can get the world to move from factory farms to a bunch of small family farms where animals are legitimately treated well for the entire duration of their artificially shortened lives, we would have made significant progress. First of all, logistically speaking, the number of animals being produced would have to come down by probably 10- to 100-fold due to increased cost and space requirements. I agree that we would still have some distance to cover, but I would much rather live in that world. Plus if people legitimately cared about animal welfare, it probably wouldn't take too much extra convincing to get them to make that final crucial step.
About the act of NOT killing being a non-action, yes I agree. However I think one can use compassion to mean "understanding the perspective of another," which is perhaps a necessary prerequisite for becoming a vegan.
There's a clear moral case for eliminating factory farms. The case for eliminating all animal farming is a lot muddier and much less likely to be correct.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Should it be done versus should I do it. Looks like a overlapping between morals (should it) and ethics (should I) at the highest abstract level. Nice when they overlap, but not required to hold some moral ground.
6:54
Audio cuts out. Piglet is too what?
Sick, presumably
I think underweight
Idk the word Alex used, but the answer is the small ones. The industry says "non-viable piglets (less than 12lbs)" get "manually applied blunt force trauma" Non-viable as in less profit.
Skinny
👏👏👏
Slaughter is animal cruelty. Ban meat.
Never who are you it's in my nature and ill die fighting before I'm forced into your cult
@@davidevans3223 It's in your nature to hurt animals? I bet you're a pretty nice guy in other areas of life.
@@davidevans3223 In what universe does a group defined by what it _doesn't_ do qualify as a cult? Especially when those things are as weird as grown men breastfeeding from animals.
@@artistsanomalous7369 well Hinduism has a huge following so a religon but veganisum is far less so still a cult
@@artistsanomalous7369 it's not anti vegan it's just science that proves what I'm saying there's no disputing if you watch you'll funny understand
Surely a tu quoque fallacy there in the beginning?
Yes and no, because most of the audience is not vegan
My answer to the question is yes
At about 4:00 I have done this, it wasn’t a factory farm, it was a family, and sheep not cattle
I would love to see a debate between him an Russell Brand on morality and spirituality
Yes and also Vaush
Nah. Russell isn't even in the same league. Maybe Josh Rasmussen. Better fit.
@@FurryTailor Vaush?? 😂😂😂
Only if Andrew Sachs was involved too.
@@FurryTailor haven't been watching vaush lately he's not a vegan is he?
Alex is right but I can't say that I am willing to be 100% vegan. I will now try some vegan products and see where it leads me.
❤️❤️❤️
👏👏👏👏
Shame about the audio
Everytime i watch him, i feel small.
What does he say at 6:55?
Profitable.
I would not.
Not gonna lie the audio problems are gonna throw a lot of people off
Would be interesting how to solve the moral dilemma of having for example a cat or dog and treating her very well, but she needs meat to live.
They actually don't need meat to survive, but there are companies like Because Animals working on making lab meat for companion animals.
Dogs can survive, with some difficulty, on a plant based diet. But cats really can't.
@@fluffysheap oh good, the veterinarian has arrived. 😉
Traditionally people didn't feed their cats at all. Cats were primarily domesticated to serve as mousers. Food for them, pest control for us.
@@fluffysheap there’s one molecule that cats need that can’t be found naturally in plants: luckily, we have been able to make that molecule synthetically and now there’s quite a few healthy vegan cat food options.
Alex has single handedly convinced me on veganism. I am way too nihilistic to actually care enough to do something about it, but the morality can not really be debated.
I was in your situation About 3 years ago after I heard a speech from Alex on the same topic. A year later I was fully vegan and have been for the past 2 years.
@@JaromEubanks I probably would if I cared more about being moral. Again, I'm too nihilistic to care. I'll be dead soon.
You may not care about your own life, but the animals definitely care about theirs. Your nihilism doesn't stop their suffering - you actually becoming vegan does
@@maestroeragon I agree, but my nihilism restricts me from caring. Can you understand that?
@@PrettyLittle_Piss no, it gives you a excuse to continue inflicting harm. You care enough to watch this video, you care enough to talk here, you care enough to continue existing. You care, just within the realm of a temporary and meaningless existence...but you DO care.
He quit his vegan diet to went right back to eating Animals again?
He went back to eating animals, he did not specify which. You can read it from his RUclips channel in the community section.
I'm very impressed with Alex's arguments. He even acknowledges the economic drivers behind factory farming practices.
I consume animal products, but no, I would not carry out factory farming practices myself.
I guess I'm too lazy and comfortable to become Vegan. I'm aware that everything I consume was once a living thing, with the exception of water and salt. I know that animals feel pain and emotional stress and that it is a part of life. My morality tells me that pain and suffering should be minimised.
Lots of food for thought but man can not live on thought alone. : )
Exerting mass suffering on beings that can experience it is just "a part of life"?
2:55 a counter example; addiction
But bacon tho
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Same argument unravels the concept of "carbon credits."
It’s not however true, that plant based milk does have a huge negative impact on animal lives (ands the environment for that sake), killing huge amounts of animals as well
Really? How?
@@rawcopper604 we can take almond milk for an example, but just about all the points applies to all plant milks
1. Water Usage: Almond milk production requires significant water resources. Almond trees need a lot of water to grow, with estimates suggesting it takes about 1.1 gallons (4.2 liters) of water to produce a single almond. This high water demand is particularly problematic in regions like California, where most of the world’s almonds are grown and where water scarcity is a significant issue. Intensive water usage can deplete local water supplies, affecting both ecosystems and the human populations that depend on these resources.
2. Pesticides and Chemicals: Almond orchards often use pesticides and fertilizers to maintain high yields. These chemicals can run off into nearby water bodies, causing pollution that harms aquatic life and disrupts ecosystems. The use of pesticides can also negatively affect bees and other pollinators essential for many crops.
3. Habitat Destruction: Expanding almond cultivation can lead to habitat loss for many species. Converting natural landscapes into agricultural land reduces biodiversity and displaces wildlife. This loss of habitat can contribute to the decline of local animal populations.
4. Carbon Footprint: The cultivation, processing, and transportation of almonds and other plant-based milk ingredients contribute to greenhouse gas emissions. While plant-based milks generally have a lower carbon footprint compared to dairy milk, the environmental impact is still significant, particularly when considering the entire supply chain.
5. Impact on Pollinators: Almond trees rely heavily on bees for pollination. The large-scale monoculture of almond orchards requires the use of migratory beekeeping, where bees are transported to different regions to pollinate crops. This practice can stress bee colonies, making them more susceptible to disease, pesticides, and habitat loss, contributing to the decline of bee populations.
If Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens had a child...
Cruelty is the reason I stopped eating meat. Cutting out everything else was not a huge step. Veggie substitutes are actually very good and healthy. They are more expensive, but its worth the cost to me. Animas are sentient beings. I won't subscribe today cruelty.
Conversely, the cessation of producing animal products means the near cessation of those animals altogether. We have already passed the point where our involvement with farm animals could be left alone. If there are no more dairy farmers, there are no more dairy cows. Our decision then lies between wanting to allow cruelty or stand against that and bring about less of their existence. Would you rather suffer or not exist at all? I’d rather advocate for proper animal treatment.
What are you arguing exactly? Is it a concern about extinction?
If you care about extinction you should know that animal agriculture is one of the largest drivers of biodiversity loss on the planet.
We create more pollution, destroy more rainforest, use more land, and contribute to more greenhouse gases by supporting animal agriculture than the alternative of eating plant based diets. All of these represent very significant and real negative impacts on biodiversity currently threatening the extinction of thousands of species of animal.
Or is it more about the individual, that you think a non-existent potential for a life is somehow comparable to a concrete instance of one? If so then you are committing category error. You can't compare non-existent properties of a virtual or abstract potential of a life to an actual implementation of one. It's like trying to compare the value of an integer to null. It's not logical to do so. You wouldn't prefer anything if you didn't exist. Saying that you'd prefer to live than never have existed is completely illogical.
Stop the breeding. Stop the suffering. Animals are not machines.
Not only would I do it, I have, and I do not think it's unjust suffering.
Does my consistency relieve me of being adjudged immoral by Alex?
If not, why?
How do you justify the animals' suffering?
@@kasiape853 I don't justify it. I have the indifference of a cat with a mouse.
@@godlessheathen100 If you were indifferent to killing other humans would that make it okay?
@@godlessheathen100 surely you would agree tho that alot of unnecessary pain experienced by the animals we slaughter can be reduced or completey eliminated. you are not a cat, you are human, you are self aware, you know what its like for an animal to feel pain and panic all of a sudden, as self conscious beings we have the ability to feel empathy with other creatures. maybe you don't, and i'm not morally judging you btw, maybe you are the right guy for the job but still there is alot of suffering that can be reduced if we only try.
@@almawlanietzsche I agree that suffering can be reduced or eliminated. The question is, SHOULD suffering be reduced or eliminated, and if so, why? ...and here is where I think Alex presumes too much. Sentience and empathy do not necessarily entail any obligation to act. Neither does Alex's implication that it would be inconsistent to not extend to non-humans the consideration he proposes because of the experiences of sentience and empathy.
I does not follow that one ought to do anything.
What about the division of labour argument, which could go something like this:
I would refuse to do the things to the cow that Alex describes, because I do not have the skills or training to do so. I would probably make the situation worse. For example; not accurately killing the cow with the bolt first time, prolonging pain and terror experienced by the cow. Perhaps the same lack of skills when slitting it's throat, again increasing the suffering of the cow, possibly while it's still conscious.
Might one conclude that; if we are to kill animals for our own use, it should be done in a way that minimises the conscious suffering of the animal - which is best done by those who know what they are doing, (insofar as they do), not me?
This can sound like a cop-out, of course!
Extending Alex's point, I guess the question simply becomes: If I was a subject matter expert in animal slaughter, would I slaughter animals? - which is a rather odd thing to say, since in order to acquire the necessary skills, I would already be a slaughterhouse expert!
I can't remember the details but I recall reading about someone who studied the processes in use in abattoir's and made changes in the layout and lighting to make the animals more calm and less anxious. Presumably there is a place for this, if slaughterhouses are to continue?
Obviously the ultimate minimisation of harm with respect to humans using animal resources, is to simply not use animal resources. But I am curious how Vegans approach the practical question of the minimisation of harm, given that animals are being harmed by humans.
Outlawing factory farms would be a good start.
Good job 👏 I take it he must be against abortion as well?
Probably up until the fetus is sentient.
Until a fetus procures sentience there is nothing morally wrong in aborting it, not even for a vegan since we do not kill or harm sentient beings, but we do eat planta which are still alive.
Why would that be? I've never seen abortion forced on a woman. Farming is forced on the animals we eat.
@@garibaldi54 I don’t think you’re seeing the argument here. He is claiming it is immoral to pay someone to do something you would not do yourself, then describing the horrific things done to animals. Then comparing that to abortion, and ripping a baby apart limb by limb, then crushing their skull, and piecing them back together. This process is forced on the baby, which as a species seems to be more valuable to humanity than any other species
@@-Joku_- Forced by the person who would otherwise be forced to sustain and take care of that 'baby' also the kind of procedure you're describing is rare, like 1% of cases and often done for medical reasons. Most abortions involve taking tablets to flush out something the size of a pea, thats not a baby.
Not to mention the most obvious factor, fetuses are not sentient. I know this because I once was one myself.
I wouldn't do it myself but I also wouldn't grow my own vegetables so I don't see your point.
His point is that you're not going to do it yourself not because you just cant be bothered (like growing your own vegetables) but because you see it as morally wrong.
You could try actually watching the video before commenting.
@@GS-lq2is Explain.
@@4i4kov Explain what? That he covered this exact point? Again, try watching. With the sound on.
@@GS-lq2is I did. Try reading my comments or give me a time stamp.
Alex has esentially failed to make the case for why moral concerns couldn't be included as part of the "I can't be bothered" reason for hiring somebody.
Everything we do has direct consequences, oat milk and the like being farmed will kill off other animals that rely on more diversity bio culture
The goal of veganism isn’t the elimination of suffering, but rather the minimization of suffering. Please take into consideration not only the lives of the animals killed for food, but the rodents that died in production of those crops.
@@tragicsense5283 or the countless insects plowed under, the delicate biomes already existing in the soil that we destroy, all things that live do so at the expense of another life, we cannot escape that, we should make peace with it and learn to minimize our destruction while still filling our own niche of nature
Oof, punctuation and grammar police will have a field day there
@@cat_and_cabbage4662 that too, but your outlook from my perspective is aligned with veganism. Most of the land we do repurpose for crops are fed to livestock so ultimately even though veganism isn’t the solution, it’s the best step forward. It also sounds like you’re making an appeal to futility.
@@tragicsense5283 I would agree that veganism from a utility point of view is absolutely the best way forward, but I can think of no case in which it is a moral necessity