Electro Capacitive Switch?!... But Does it Thock?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- #keybored Electro Capacitive Switch?!... But Does it Thock?
This Video is Sponsored by PCBWAY! PCB + CNC + 3D Print and More! www.pcbway.com/
Yes, you can buy Topre keyboards straight up... or even other Electro-Capcitive switch keyboards like the NIZ... But can you make one custom? Now you can! Introducing the Class 60, a keyboard that can be made in both MX style, or Topre Style (Electro Capacitive)! Is it any good? Does it Thock? Let's find out!
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Links to Products Shown in this Video
Class 60 by MM Studio!
www.mmkeyboard...
Class 60 US Site
www.kfa.store/...
Dangkeebs - Tecsee Banana Milk Linear Switches
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AE Staebies
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PBT Fans Keycaps (one that is in stock)
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A few viewers pointed out that I may have placed the stem into the wrong groove. Initially, I couldn't get it to fit the other way, but I realized that I was missing the center of the channel, causing it to get stuck. I figured it out and rebuilt it the right direction! Didn't make much of a difference, but good to know that it's now in the right direction! Thanks!
Did it change the sound any when you put the stems in the right way? In the video it sounds oddly crunchy that I haven’t heard other topre keyboards sound. Also does that mean that you lubed the wrong corners of the housing? Thanks for clarifying and adjusting this!
Sounds crunch/compression sound (Topre).
@@Crazyates11prolly due more to taller( more unstable) keycaps
If memory serves, "thock" was first used to describe the sound Topre keyboards make. Only later did it become a generic term for the bottoming out sound. I can't imagine how all of these mods make to the original sound/feel.
We all going back to our roots!
Thank you for saying this, I feel like this isn't said enough and the term has been overused by so many of these tiktok hype content creators and other creators like Hipyotech and S&C.
@@Pandered Well still, according to Hipyo and as he states in one of his videos, he prefers Electro Capacitive Switches as his daily driver.
@@Maite-AileenBrandt And he still doesn't know that "thock" is only used to describe EC boards lmao
It's technically not a membrane, topre switches (And their clones) are rubber dome over spring over a pcb, not a membrane
yes its ec
A very hybrid kind of switch
Sounds membrane to me
@@mcnos3820 sound doesnt change anything
Plus every switch is individual
buzzer + solenoid sounds insane lol i couldn't see myself using them but it's such a fun gimmick and i love it
It'll definitely help you become the favorite member of the office also!
thanks for the video Scott, don’t think I’ve yet seen such an in depth video on Topre! I’m not sure the sound is for me, but I’ve definitely gotta try one out eventually for the feel! I know some folks really believe in Topre > everything
It's definitely a different kind of typing experience! It feels smooth and firm at the same time haha
I'm so glad I watched to the end I love how annoying the buzzer and solenoid could potentially be for anytime the boss wants to do a zoom call.
hey keybored, thanks for going with topre to show teach the MX world more about it. keep going I love your work. Topre clones arent really good usually so I wouldn't have related them too much to topre because it mutates the actual benefits and losses of topre. (I said this because this board uses NIZ parts which arent the greatest)
Depends who you ask. I prefer Niz switches over topre
Thanks for the heads up!
I have two FC660c as well as a gen 3 HHKB. I’d prefer my Niz to them if the firmware was better.
Turns out, they sound like shit. Big shocker.
Just wanna say, I really enjoy watching the more strange keyboard reviews from you
Membrane doesn't refer to the rubber domes on a keyboard, it refers to the membrane below the rubber domes used to register keystrokes. Topre switches don't have a membrane, but Model Ms do.
For all those seeking understanding, this is literally where the term "thock" comes from
no it isnt
Crazy to think that the Topre sound created a buzz word that isn't associated with Topre anymore.
Now "thock" is associated with mechanical keyboards drowned in layers of foam.
Thock!
“Rubber nipple things”
Didn't know how else to describe them
The "I hate everyone mode" used after rejection of raise.
Everyone talks about how many different mx switches but never how many different vintage switches like alps, fujitsu leaf spring, ibm buckling spring, ibm beam springs, siemens switches, cherry m4-m9, itw magnetic valve, etc.
Epomaker some time ago released the Niz N87 Tkl Aluminium which is their high-end version of their regular Niz topre-style keyboards. I would love for you to take a look at that keyboard. I'm really interested in that keyboard, but I can't find any reviews on it
i wish the vid was time stamped tbh... anyway, i still think its wonderful you brought Topre/EC boards into the limelight
I want to point out to newcomers the lube was placed in the wrong parts of where the sliders will make contact and the sliders in this video were placed in a way that would create stem wobble... which in turn could get caught and have a key held until pressed down again/reset.
This is not to speak badly on Scott, the housing is clear and it's quite hard to see the rails haha. This is strictly to let newcomers know there are rails within the housing that basically tell you where to lube and in which position to insert your sliders! After lubing is done, the whole process is extremely quick so I hope you all consider this type of board!
Also, the blue rings are for silencing for those of you who are interested in a more-quiet board (:
I think it eventually auto time stamps lol! Hopefully soon!
@@Keybored hopefully!
@@imryujins I took the whole thing apart and you're right! If I better align the stems into the grooves, they do fit... I had them turned too much and it was missing the channel... :( I'll pin the info into the comments so others know!
Another great and in-depth video. And a pretty CLASSY video
Haha I see what you did!
Holy heck that looks so good. EC switches makes it a really strong thought
I love the classic look with the MT3!
If I knew about this when it was going I could have got it and I would have got it.
I think you might have lubed the wrong corners and installed the sliders wrong. I own topre keyboards, and there is typically a groove on 2 of the corners to accept the rails of the sliders to keep the sliders stable. If you rotate all of the sliders 90 degrees, then it should be correct. They shouldn't just drop in that easily without aligning the slider rails first. Your switches are probably going to rattle more than they really should like this.
Hmm perhaps since these are not topre originals? I tried both ways and there was no way it was fitting the other way haha
@@Keybored Possibly. I considered not posting this comment because I am unfamiliar with these particular switches, but I am looking at an HHKB shell from a shell swap I did last weekend, and the slider housing looks almost identical. The Class 60 installation manual is ambiguous in the 3D view, but the 2D diagram shows the slider rails' orientation to the housing grooves that look like a typical topre install orientation. On the HHKB, the tolerances are tiny between the slider and the housing when installed in the proper direction, so I wonder if a manufacturing tolerance issue might be causing the sliders to have trouble fitting.
@@scottoverall7852 I'll have to take a closer look at this. I'm examining the housing again, and noticed that there are 2 grooves essentially, maybe I was trying to fit them into the wrong side of the groove... If then I'll have to rebuild lol. Surprisingly, the keyboard functions fairly normally, but if it's in the wrong orientation... I'd rather fix it
I’m really curious what the results are because I thought the same test sounded crunchy and scratchy in a way I’ve never heard a torpe sound before.
I've been waiting for someone to review the ec switches for the class60. Unfortunately, it uses costar stabs which is a deal breaker for me. Thanks, Scott!
They said that the main gb units would use cherry stabs, only these prototype units are using costar stabs
bro didn't listen to the video
The production units will use MX!
LMAO that test at the end made my ears bleed
Looks nice! and sounds nice as well.
this is so interesting I'm actually kinda impressed
That end 😆😆
A dog eating... now I can't unhear it
my ears why is it louder than red switches holy crap worlds most loudest switches
Haha it sounds moist
i know there is a quest for keyboard snobs to be unique but this is too much it sounds like poop being pushed through with a plunger
Topre is an acquired taste. Once you try it, you either love it or you hate it. I understand the comparison to a membrane keyboard, but Topre feels different once you actually get to experience it.
It is a membrane keyboard man
Yup! I do like the variation!
@@AT-vj2mz it's not. A membrane keyboard would require you to bottom out for the keypress to register.
@@ekillops22 no, a membrane keyboard is a keyboard that uses a membrane, simple as. sure, it's different to 95% of membrane keebs, but it's still a membrane one.
@@KerbiterMembrane keyboards use a membrane to register a key press, not PCBs. Topre and its clones use PCBs. Therefore, not a membrane switch. The term you’re probably looking for is “rubber dome” keyboard.
I could be wrong but I think you installed the topre sliders in the wrong orientation, I think the legs of the slider should sit in the rounded corners of the housing
That was what I thought too! But they don't fit that way :(
I just took out all the extra housings and noticed that there are 2 "channels" in the grooved side... I may have tried to shove them into the narrow side, making it too tight. I may have to rebuild... the surprising thing is that the keyboard works perfectly normal right now haha
Topre sounds like a muted shopping cart on rough pavement.
Haha or like a cat chewing
If they make a 75% with EC switches I'm jumping on it
20 minute video, with a 30 second sound test...
Interesting keyboard
Most Def!
Niz vs. Topre is quite a different feel and sound. But I do think it is an interesting feel that should be explored more in the custom market.
Modded Topre can be almost like a linear with some of the smoothest travel and the best bottom out experience.
im just getting into topre and topre-like its so dang hard finding topre stuff in-stock minus hhkb and its stupid layout.
typing on my plum84 :)
:)
Thats loud af.
Interesting
Thanks!
what is topray?
Haha tomato tomato
So... its a worse mechanical keyboard, plus the crap sound of a membrane keyboard, what the actual hell?
NO WKL NO TY! lol
It is available in wkl and hhkb
I believe there is. WKL option!
Brother ewwww
All interest was gone since it's not 96%/1800 compact, since I do Blender, I need a full board.
Don't @ me or I will shank you
no @ here but ther are other layouts available! you might like them if you can find them for cheap :p
As a Japanese, I am proud to see that Topre's capacitive non-contact key switches are attracting worldwide interest.
It may be hard for westerners to believe, but for a long time in Japan, mechanical keyboards were either Topre's Realforce keyboards or the heavy-as-hell keyboards manufactured by the now-defunct Alps.
In the past decade or so, CherryMX series or MX clones have almost monopolized the market in Japan, but Topre switches have maintained a unique touch and feel even in this situation.
Topre has long neglected to enter the overseas market, but the situation seems to have changed recently, and I am personally very deeply moved that Topre switches are now being introduced to everyone in this way.
Why doesn't Alps make mechanical keyboards/switches anymore? I'd always assumed they were out of business but I looked them up because of this comment and saw that they're still around.
@@vpxc Alps Electric Co., Ltd. is a large company with more than 30,000 employees, mainly manufacturing components and sensors that are supplied to consumer electronics manufacturers. They withdrew from the keyboard switch business because there simply was not enough profit in the market to keep it as a business.
Alps has supplied parts, including key switches, to many major PC manufacturers, including IBM, Dell, HP, Panasonic, Sharp, NEC, and SGI.
However, as you know, many of these companies have either withdrawn from the consumer PC manufacturing and sales business or greatly reduced the scale of their operations.
In other words, there is no reason to continue the low-margin key switch business since they have lost their customers.
@@vpxc Alsp style switches were designwise just not very dust proof and and not as resilient as cherry. They would have to redesign the whole stem, and then it kinda would have been a different switch altogether. Also MX Stem took over the market. Even new switch designs go MX mount, no other mount will gain a following apart from in the low height keycap design market.
Topre will always be niche. Even in the custom scene, it's easy to buy a mx switch for your next build, but it's hard to source parts for topre builds. You have to harvest a prebuilt hhkb or realforce and put it in a custom or rely on deskeys. Not much else out there.
wow the EC build sounds insane. so cool to see EC become more and more commonplace within the keyboard sphere! great job once again scott!
Thank you so much Avi! It's always good to see new things being tried, and manufacturers not afraid to venture out of the norm!
Sounds basically like my old bundled in work pc Dell rubber dome keyboard....
Original Topre switches sound absolutely horrific to me, and this one unfortunately is still pretty close. I have found however that one of the clones (NIZ Plum) that came about after the patent on Topre switches expired, sounds WAY better... They sound like thuddy and dry silent switches, but I still think the sound is overall very pleasing. Structurally they seem identical to these, so I'm not sure what is causing such a huge difference in sound. The Niz Plum isn't even using a gasket mount or any foams, it's a metal plate directly in contact with a cheap multi-piece snap together plastic case, so I'd bet a new revision or some mods could make it sound even better still.
Interesting. I think if they Plum is actually mounted into the case, you probably hear more of the case as well (I assume plastic?) it'll also sound deeper and "thuddier" as you mentioned!
LOL the final sound test 😂😂
Hope you liked it!
I don't see how anyone can think putting any of these keyboards together is difficult. It's so simple. The only thing thet was ever difficult in keyboards was soldering and they really got rod of that. It's just putting things together and a few screws.
There is this certain metallic-wooden tone to it that Im not sure how I feel about. Very unique
It doest sound very unique. Esp with it's setup as MX that sound
@@Keybored I don't mind Topre sound, it's the switch feeling dull that kinda kills it for me.
Love your videos but you say “like” and “right?” way too much!
1:42 Did you mix PBTFans Basin with Deep Sea Predator? Because that's what I did awhile ago.
didn't even start the video yet, but the mandatory:
Thanks professor.
Haha, thank you! Welcome back!
The thing that keeps me on topre after dipping my toes into MX every 6 months or so is that I can get it quiet while still sounding good.
I’m probably just not good enough at modding MX switches, but I always find that the quieter I get them the more high pitch sound that start to surface. Stuff like spring ping and leaf ping (which is possibly more pronounced because I only use silent tactiles).
The spacebar has a bit of rattle, but aside that the topre switches sounds great. I wanted to get a hhkb but it looks kinda plain and this keyboard looks really good ngl.
Yeah... The costars sometimes are a bit finicky
@@Keybored Costar stabs would be a deal breaker for me.
@@MercyOfDarknessthe finalized boards will have plate mounted stabs as mentioned in the video.
I was just about to say it sounds like a creature munching.
Hahaha once you hear it, you can't unhear
How does the typing experience compare to an actual topre board if you have tried them?
I think you forgot ALPS which existed in custom mech for pretty much as long as MX has!
If you meant topre clones, its offered as an option for NCR80 R3!
I'll have to look into the NCR80!
Topre tips: if you center the springs perfectly, you will not need to lube the board. No crunch. And if you center it perfectly, you won't need to mess with it unless you decide to peel back the rubber again at some point. And if you feel compelled to lube anything touching the rubber make sure it's Krytox or another safe lube that will not deform the rubber over time. (Look up Topre lube guide.)
One spring, one spring only please........ Scott, downvote for missing the worlds most hand-delivered Hunt for Red October reference mate....... uuugh!
This keyboard is more advertised for people who suffer from wrist issues such as carpal tunnel, etc.
I can’t wait to get one of these keyboards cause my wrist are suffering badly. 😖😖😖
okay, i get it, so it's a membrane keyboard pretending to be mechanical,. so there is a solenoid to make sound to make it look like you are typing on mechanical keyboard. this is crazy, just buy a membrane keyboard for $2.
If only they made standalone EC switches in an MX form factor that you could drop into hot-swap sockets.
Why do people rest their wrist on wrist rest while typing you do it when you're not typing its bad for waist while typing. You are putting pressure on the nerves in wrist. You should elevate your wrist and hands in the air to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome.
never liked any of these, the sound is mushy and scratchy no matter what and it honestly just goes back to membrane... That said its always nice to see a hobby have so many different things for those that want it
the original thock term came from topre. theres no such thing as mx/clone thock.
misnomers, misnomers everywhere.
Buzzer + solenoid sounds like a nightmare i want to keep having and i don't know how that makes me feel
Umm .. interesting and nothing against you but there's no damn way I'm using a membrane keyboard. I get it. It has a spring.
.. 19:39 WTH is this "I Hate Everyone Mode" What's the purpose?
Wow. What a great way to get yourself fired or kicked out of the house.
bruh this video got uploaded when it was my birthday.
Absolutely a no no for me. This is far from topre :D
It thocks, it clacks, it... chirps?
This looks a lot like a Rama M65-B
Sounds like dosimeter
Still surprised the board doesnt have an hhkb version considering its topre compatibility, seemed like a missed oppritunity
It does
@@charicharalferro5421 oh
I believe it does
Why would anyone do the last one non-ironically. Does anyone actually like that?
I don't mind having the solenoid turned on. It actually provides both the audible and a nice little tap every time I hit a key, kind of like a typewriter
Ugh the mussshhhh
pretty sure EC switches are the origin of keyboard thock lmao
Hi Scott! Was looking through EC builds when I saw this one. What EC housings and stems did you use for this one? I'm currently looking towards purchasing deskeys or KLC parts
Sounds mushy
Very interesting video, thank you!
Tope Pray
It’s basically a HHKB type-s, I don’t like it but my wife is a HHKB fan and can’t stand MX cherry style keyboard. It really comes to preferences.
Ngl the board with mx switches sounds terribly hollow. The topre version of the board sounds and looks interesting though.
I think you have lubed the wrong side of the housing and drop the stem with the legs are wrong side as well... There is a rail side where the legs sits in and slides...
The way you do it will give the stem a lot of room to wobble
Hope you can redo it and make another sound test
im glad im not the only one who caught this hahaha
That's what I thought too and I initially lubed the ridged side... Unfortunately there was no way it was going to fit that way... Almost broke a stem shoving it in and I realized it only fits the other way
@@Keybored on standard topre it doesn't have much resistance. The only thing that holds the slider from dropping out of the housing is a small bump on the cylinder itself. Same for when i upgrade to deskeys mx slider too. Since you say it couldn't fit, that's kinda weird. Sounds like a design error..
@@Hahnck750i I just grabbed the extra housings and noticed that there are 2 "grooves"... perhaps I was trying to stick them into the wrong groove lol. Surprisingly, the keyboard works without much wobble or issues like this, but if it's in the wrong groove, I may need to rebuild this because it'll drive me crazy knowing it's in the wrong groove!
@@Keybored from the typing test you made. It sounds to me more rattly than it should for a slider with silencing ring installed. Shall wait for your update on the retest.
No split BS on the EC 60% is a deal killer for me. I would love to try EC but I can't do HHKB either.
Still dreaming for an affordable topre ortholinear 50% keyboard 😢
Copper work hardens which makes its use as a spring material... odd
Seems like you save quite a lot of time to lube the switches and use that time for assembly lol
Yeah... The assembly was grueling!
Gotta say, "I hate everything" mode is my favorite!
amazing vid Keybored, I don't know any other video about topre as in depth as this
Any chance you'll be able to get your hands on the new GMK MTNU profile coming soon?
I've been meaning to take a look at that!
Hey Scott - wanted to point out that they recently switched to plate-mount stabs instead of the costars included in the prototype. How easy is it to swap the pcb? The board looks very promising as an all-in-one board for people who swap between topre and mx regularly
I actually received both sets. The parts between MX and Topre style are not compatible, so I just made 2 sets and it's super easy to go back and forth from them
Great video, Scott. That bounce is CRAZY! Super cool to see Topre as an option, too.
I wish they made the case more hollow to get a more retro sound ... that paired with the Zeal Clickiez would be gold. But I must say the capacitive pcb is cool. You are lubing the wrong corners in your video ... It would be interesting to compare this to actual topre. How scratchy are the sliders? How are the tolerances? How close is the sound? How close is the feel?
Haha, a lot of people have been saying that, but I tried the other corners, and the stems don't fit there. It makes logical sense to lube the area with the little ridges, but the stems are too big to go in that direction... I know it's weird...
@@Keybored Hahaha yes, it's weird that the stem doesn't fit in the slider hahahaha. Someone messed up there.
Hmmm I wonder if you could use this for the wooting 60 as a case swap. Nice vid as always and thanks for bringing this to the community.
you cant
I can see a lot of people thinking this is membrane
Haha Def has that component in it
Need a keyboard Alps video next!
and a beam spring!
That's unfortunate... it sounds like a crappy membrane keyboard
Def feels much nicer!
@@Keybored I guess I'd have to test it in person for the unique feel.. I find the wooting hall effect switches sound a lot more crisp and clean (although the board itself sounds hollow/rattly).
10:11 is truly the Lego building sound keyboard
Haha it has a very unique sound in MX setup
Great video…. UNTIL THE END!!! lol
It's hilarious when you bust it out in an office