The same year, his teammate Fer was top 3 hltv using 125hz on rival 300. Literally. Not because his mouse had issues but he just liked 125hz more because a game he played before could only use 125 lol
Also those ec2A za12A mice couldnt even get to 1000hz consistently going from 500-750-850 rarely 1000hz so most cs pro zowie users used 500hz since 1000hz wasnt stable…. Lmao..
Polling rate is such a small variable. Sensor position is a huge one, but one cares, because you can't put a number on it and sell for a lot of money. Because no one cares, give us sensors with higher numbers, higher DPI, higher polling, higher version numbers. If it's new it's good.
Hi! I'm planning on adding to the list of Australians who have made a video about high hz and have been doing some testing for it, and from what I've done so far there is actually a visible difference in averages between 1k and 2k+hz in aimtrainers, and that difference was more noticeable on a 480hz monitor compared to 240hz. I was honestly a bit surprised to see any difference but still need to do more testing to get statistically significant findings in either direction and if those improvements in aimtrainers will mean anything in actual fps games is a completely different discussion haha. It certainly isn't game changing but I don't think 1k vs 2khz can be dismissed as entirely placebo. Another thing I think has gone a little overlooked is that there is a bit of research on the topic, there's a paper born from a twitter argument between a researcher and one of the blurbuster admins which was inconclusive but interesting to read through. What stood out to me was on page 7 there was a chart of temporal jitter sizes (which is how consistent cursor movements will look) for different combinations of polling rates and refresh rates and a 144hz monitor + 1000hz mouse actually sync up pretty well, having the same consistency of motion as 240hz 4khz. Some people are also more sensitive to temporal jitter than others which could explain why some people don't notice any difference while others say it's extremely visible. tldr: polling rate matters more at higher hz, imo 1k is fine for 144hz but I don't see a reason not to use 2k if your mouse supports it, and you don't lose fps bc of it heres the paper for anyone interested! dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3472749.3474783 I disagree with a few of it's findings but it was still an interesting read
there was no visible difference comparing 1k to an 8k pulling rate on a 540hz monitor being recorded in super slow Mo capture at 1000 frames per second. for reference you can see lighting move at 500 frames per second. the difference between 1000 and 8k in terms of MS is just 0.75ms difference. the avg reaction time of a human is 150 to 200ms. the best are around 100- 120 ms. if you can see and feel a difference. you should not only quit your job right now because you will get paid massively to be tested on. you should go ahead and break records that will stand for all time. because you literally surpassed the best of the best of the best by a whole 119.75 in responsive. the whole thing is a placebo effect. that is before i even tell you, the mouse in question arent always pulling at 8k. you would need to be moving the mouse very quick or be using high senn for the mouse to even use 8k all the time.
Selling something advertised as 8khz polling while acknowledging that it may have instability and recommending using a lower polling rate is all I need to know about these companies.
@@nameless.0190Yup. Easiest way to call out their BS on the polling rate debate is to make them do a blind A/B test. 100% of people will not be able to notice the difference between 1K and 2/4/8K in any game. This isn't an exaggeration. You can definitely notice the difference between 1K and 2K on the desktop, but never in game. Anyone who says they can are walking, breathing manifestations of the placebo effect. Companies love grifting those suckers.
@@nameless.0190 bro just welcome to the internet in general... anyone can say anything without any proof, evidence, or consequences. Always take everything with a grain of salt
I use 2k as well. Tried the other ones, at 4k (on a 9700k) I start noticing frame drops on cpu bound games that get really high fps like CS. 8k is downright unusable in a lot of games due to lack of support. I don't notice any performance hit on 2k so it seems like the sweet spot for now.
it works. all the mid rank players are demons in valorant now. its annoying actually but it's good practice. back in the day all you needed to be good was some basic crosshair placement and a microsoft intellimouse or razer deathadder, logitech mx518
a pro player will do bettr on 2k polling rate than 250, no one's saying it will magically make you better but there's no reason to limit something with practically no downsides
Wait so the point of this video was "the pros and my viewers use them, so they're better, case closed"? Most cs pros use 400 or 800 dpi which doesn't saturate even a 1000hz polling rate in aiming. Brands give them these high polling rate mice for free.
its interesting because the cs pro argument was constantly used for why polling rate, weight, new mouse tech and higher quality mousepads were pointless since pros weren’t using them. but now that pros are upgrading, that argument is irrelevant all of a sudden
@@drainstar333 Pros don't "upgrade". The brands give then products to use. That's why it's a bad argument to look at pros like this. We have tech that we can use to measure these things. As an argument it doesn't go much further than saying "Hey, the guy in the advertisement is using one, so it must be better!" However, if the pros don't bother upgrading, that is actual data. No-one is paying them NOT to upgrade. So likely the pros didn't care but their mouses just got a little old and when they asked for a replacement, they were sent high polling rate mouses. This is kind of proved by the fact that most CS pros have 400 or 800 DPI which does not saturate even a 2K polling rate mouse with normal movements. Even the 800 DPI doesn't saturate a 1000hz(!!!) polling rate when it comes to actual aiming and micro movements. Also, pros often go on preference instead of optimal performance. Even someone like Monesy doesn't select high contrast opponents setting in CS, because he doesn't like the way it looks, even though it's objectively better for performance.
Arguably 400 hz is great for cs I used it for 3k hours and that’s the only way I played. Due to cs2 ruining csgo I mainly play Val and it is undeniable 800 is better in Val due to the significance of micro adjustments
Half of them CS pros using 8k and 4k polling rate, are using 400 dpi at the same time lol. So they are not really "gaining anything" from using a higher polling rate (not that it matters much anyway).
cs pros really dont know anything about tech🤣so many of them swear that 400 dpi is better than 1600dpi but that literally makes no sense, it would be the same to say 60hz is better than 144hz.
Switched to 500hz because 1k caused an issue in an old shooter I played. Kept it at that and genuinely forgot about it playing various other shooters at a very high level, and on a very good 240hz panel. What I can conclude is that there is absolutely no instance where that polling rate will make you ANY better. Just remember guys, you can schizo about a mouse setting, or you can play the game and actually get better. You will never find the secret setting lmao just get better there is someone out there with a g502 directly on their desk that will smoke you in your favourite game
in fact, higher polling rate can make you "worse". because higher polling rate means the mouse will replicate your mouse movement better as it updates more frequent. This means those tiny shakes in your mouse movements will also be reflected on screen.
It'll potentially cause you to win in scenarios where you genuinely lost by milliseconds, but those occurrences are very infrequent and will not drastically change the percentage of kills you get in either direction. At best it'll help you get a few percentage points better, but do absolutely nothing noticable relative to another player with a remotely noticable gap.
8k mice are worth using on high end systems due to higher clocks and TSC timer frequency. Sync your components to the same, double, or half frequency for the best results, as 8k polling rate has actual impact only if components are in sync (similar to FPS and monitor refresh rates). To reduce stutters on Ryzen systems: 1 .Enable EHCI Traffic Handling (forces CPU to exit C-states when USB EHCI has traffic). 2. Disable XHCI interrupt moderation. This can save 15-50ms of latency on your usb controller, far more than any mouse upgrade. On modern systems, interrupt moderation thresholds are adjustable, unlike the fixed 1ms on Windows 7 so this one is no brainer.
While we are discussing frequencies, to my knowledge, phones and modems operate at 2400 Hz and 5000 Hz, so the closest polling rates are 2 kHz and 4 kHz. An 8 kHz polling rate is safe for now, but we must remember that higher frequency waves have lower range and are more prone to noise. Shielding your 8 kHz receiver with something like aluminum foil is definitely a good idea.
agree, if one get a 4k or 8k mouse with a bad setup (pc, monitor etc) it would be better trying low hz till pc wont be upgraded. I noticed with my lamzu on 4k and i was getting stuttering problems in games due my bad pc XD. I could consider like investment for future when i will upgrade pc
XHCI interrupt moderation is a dynamic 0-0.05ms latency that's dependant on cpu usage. You should definitely turn it off for games that require precision and timing.
@@Yoobe Yeah sure but o.5ms max? That cant be accurate, beside dwm thats why win 7 was somuch more responssive at 1ms. I wish i could rev eng without protection to actually see what the limits are but i dubt they would tie it to cpu usage because they know its buggy mess to detect even task manager is wierdbwith it when idle is disabled for example. Would you explain a litle where did you get this from
There is a video already made about this. You cannot physically detect differences after 1-2k polling rate. This is like saying "if the atoms of your skin would have been in correct position, you would have hit that shot".
My friend I helped teach Overwatch eventually became a consistent longtime top 500 player and he is only on 1080p120hz screen. I agree with the videos conclusion and will rant about 480hz OLED being amazing and super fun for example but you don't need the best gear to be the best or anything. Just worth keeping in mind
@@casperd2100 I don't think I would be here talking about his rank vs monitor if he didn't know how to aim okay or was a Moira main 😂. That wouldn't make sense. My friend in question is usually around top 200-400 Tank and GM DPS with Widow and Tracer. He plays tank like x10 as much but has still been able to climb on dps. I think he could get top 500 dps if he reeaally wanted but I don't think he enjoys it as much. I am a mid masters flex player at my best, but I play other games more often than just Overwatch like he does. In terms of heroes play everything, mostly dps and support, I used to be more a tank main but since 5v5 and rq I haven't been as interested in playing it. Sadly we have both been moving away from Overwatch recently after having played it since 2016.
@@El1as-- That was kind of my point, you don't necessarily need the best gear, he's on a relatively more modest setup with a 2060 for an idea with the stuff he's using it with. But I will also still strongly rant how impactful/nice some upgrades are like 480hz OLED. It feels MORE than twice as good as 240hz imo, not due to the miniscule meaningless latency reduction but due to the massive increase in motion clarity. For the two weeks I had it before returning I felt like I was hitting some shots I couldn't believe and hadn't hit in the half a decade/5 years I have had my 1440p240hz monitor. I think even the difference between 120hz and 144hz is very noticeable once you have lots of practice. But even with all that you can do insanely well with a 1080p120hz monitor. The practice, the scrims, studying people that are better than you, and just playing the game is more important.
1:49 diminishing returns, jump from 500 to 1k is a lot more than 1k to 2k or 2k to 4k. I still personally believe that 2k would probably be the sweet spot though rn 1k is still the most balanced, honestly mouse manufacturers will make high polling rate more efficient on battery in the future anyway.
@@piskoooooUr ulx has better sensor latency on 1000hz (-0.7ms on techpowerup testing) than 95% of the markets 4000hz implementations so 2000hz on it is great
@@shusakudake this. Diminishing returns plays a role and it just varies between person to person. Going from 60hz to 144hz was an eye opener for me. Going into 240hz from 144hz wasn't nearly that impactful. I played at a LAN cafe when I was out of state with a 240hz monitor provided for a few weeks. I was able to go back to 144hz at home just fine. Meanwhile going back to 60hz makes my eyes bleed.
Only way to really know the truth is do some randomised blinded trial where people are given the different poling rates in series without them knowing which one is which and then someone records if they notice the difference. Like 15min per random rate and after each timespan the person has to guess which rate it was.
An important thing I learned after more than a decade studying this stuff is: just because you can feel the difference-the micro-nuances between polling rates or DPI values-doesn't mean it's actually helping you more than placebo. I mean, less input lag is good, but in pratice, the curve of how much you benefit from it drops off hard after even 1k. Curiously, my findings kinda align with the settings most pro players use. Honestly, I feel like the future is more about custom-made shells than hardware improvements when comes to mouses for e-sports.
also depends on the game a lot. some mice lagged my osu out so horribly (20 FPS) that I couldn't play so I was forced to play at a lower Hz. corsair mice are awful for this and I can only assume it gets worse the higher you go.
I really dont understand your narrative, the fact that 50% of cs pros still use 1000hz just further proves that polling rate barely matters? These guys are so unbelievable competitive and theres so much at stake, if there was and actual noticeable advantage to using 2k polling then they would all be using it. I genuinely cant tell if this video is satire or not in struggling man😂
First part is true, but the part about if there was a noticeable advantage they would switch isn't true. lots of csgo pros refuse to use any dpi higher than 400 even though it is undesputable that 1600 is advantageous, although again, it isn't insanely game changing just like hz
I have 540hz monitor and I mainly use 500hz polling rate when I play CS. I'm not any good, but not a total noob also (2200 faceit). As far as I know CS2 engine doesn't process mouse input between frames, that's why high polling not gonna make any even theoretical difference. However, when I play Val it's always 4k hz. I can instantly notice image become "stutterish" when I just look around on a 500hz polling, also hit register is a lot better on a 4k, esp flicks and 1 taps. So it really depends on a game engine and mouse input processing implementation.
so basically: is higher polling rate objectively better? yes do you need high polling rates to be good? no is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rate to push skill ceiling worth it? yes will upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates make you a pro? no is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates useful? only for good enough setups/games that can run it smoothly is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates affordable? yes therefore: higher polling rates is worth it
2:30 game cheat software, transitioning from membrane to Mechanical or to Hall Effect, Better spatial audio, wider screens, better resolutions, a new GPU/CPU if you couldn't produce enough frames, perhaps a better mouse/deskpad, a hand or arm sleeve, coaching, PEDs, corrective lenses, a pet, etc ...
3:10 you are simply wrong about this. Click timing is not reliant of how many frames your display can produce per second. There are still advantages to high polling even with lower Hz monitors as well as lower FPD performance within game... You're confusing the relation between those independent inputs and outputs.
Such a good video man thank you so much. Ive tried playing on 4k and for the longest time my pc had this werid and HUGE fps drops (like my gane literally froze for 2 or 3 seconds). Took me about a month of suffering before I thought about my polling rate being the issue. Even bought a new mouse (the razer viper v3 pro, used to be on a logitech g pro 2). After all that I found out it was being caused by the polling rate and I never really understood how. After watching this I can see that having a wireless headset, mouse and keyboard plus my router right next to my dongles on my table is defenitly why lol.
@stefanpapdi5151 Yeah i mean if you were to move it around like you are playing ( Cs ) in my case, numbers are avg like 500 as you said , or even lower . Its only on constant moving in circles you can hit 1k or higer . And again as you mentioned keyword "stability" no1 wants to think about possible issues, expecialy in some scenarios like tournaments or any competitive game . By that logic, its simply not worth to experiment with, for such small difference . If a high end gear doesnt give you skill, nor will 1ms difference in latency . Its all about being consistent, in competitive gameplay .
5800x3d+4070 super+240hz monitor here, currently rocking 4k/8k with 0 issues. Those high polling rates do add additional smoothness in gun flicking scenarios
This! Flicking is when you notice the higher polling rate the most. Not sure if there is an aim labs scenario that trains this but if there was, you'd see a lot more players favoring higher polling rates to achieve the highest scores
@evmadic also agreed. I noticed it with my wingman accuracy. I was able to track strafe better on 8k over everything else. Although the extra polling does bring out more tiny mistakes under pressure for me.
At 360hz refresh rate, the difference is small, but noticeable. I suppose it depends on how sensitive you are to small changes. But even on the desktop I can see the difference between all the polling rates up to around 2khz-4khz. I moved the mouse in a fast circle and I could see the gaps in the perceived trails tightening up. The difference between 2khz and beyond was a lot more negligible/imperceptible, but obviously I would be curious to try it out on a 750hz+ monitor some day to see if I can sense anything further.
1:48 I have to disagree at this part, 500hz to 1000hz is a big jump and even a non tryharding person like me can see the difference, but 1khz to 8khz doesn't give me that same impression, it doesn't even feel different at all tbh
@@boardzy the higher the polling rate is, the less you can feel the difference, if you really think 1k+ polling rate is that important, try to do a blind test to see if you can distinguish the polling rates consistently. Personally I value the 8k on my mouse because I know it reduced a bit of latency for me, but using 1k is just fine and won't hinder my performance
@@adnope You said you aren't a tryhard and I doubt you have a great monitor. So it doesn't really matter for you, I would pass a blind test and people would say I cheated, no point. Nobody ever said 1k is bad
I love how i'm only 1cm/360 away from the average, always thought that number would be lower since it seems a lot of people are still using higher sens.
@@robertobarrios7096 I don't know exactly what is causing your framedrops as that might be system specific. If you don't mind, what are your pc specs? As for the polling rate and dpi relationship, what part are you struggling to understand the most? I can try to help you understand I just need to know what you are most confused about.
@@robertobarrios7096 for some reason my comment got deleted. I edited my comment to fix the misunderstanding. I meant that the higher your DPI is the less you have to move the mouse in order to take advantage of higher polling rates.
it only matters if you have a high polling rate mouse (as seen in the optimum video) you only benefit from playing at 800 dpi or 1600 dpi when your mouse is at 2k or 4k HZ otherwise its better to play at 400dpi on 1k HZ because of pixel skipping
I’d love to see data on the polling rates used by CS:GO pros, the percentage breakdown of each polling rate and how they correlate with leaderboard rankings or win rates. It would be fascinating to analyze if there's a trend among top-performing players and polling rate! I suspect there's not
There shouldn’t be. Actual brains, training, skill gets involved at pro level. Their reaction time is extremely fast and accurate to the point that polling rate or
Most use 1000Hz, some use 500Hz. If you gonna use a wireless mouse it saves a bit of battery and puts less stress on CPU Woudn't be surprised if you could improve your fps 1% lows by using lower polling rate.
the funny thing is, no one uses an 8k mouse for fortnite because it simply couldnt handle it. Even with a 14700k i get crazy stutters when flicking around at 4k...
Yeah I am using a hub because I work from home and switch between devices while working. I was wondering why the polling tester sites were capping off and was so confused for a bit before I realized the reason. But thankfully it goes up to 2.5k still so, that's not the worst. I need to get a better one though so I can actually test 8k and keep my setup.
Thing is once increasing monitor refresh rate you want to increase mouse polling rate, to be number of times higher. We're finally getting monitors with clarity we had with good CRT monitors, be it strobed LCD or now finally OLED yey. So eventually 1000Hz OLED will come, then 8000Hz polling rate will make much more sense along with like 3200CPI that will be fun.
To be honest, more companies should implement 8k clicks just like endgame gear is doing(EGG claimed that their kalih gx switches are always at 8k with gx speed mode turn on, regardless of what the mouse polling rate is) since not much ppl gonna use 4K and above anyway, might as well add a independent switch polling rate option to use high polling on the clicks
I just set up profiles to autodetect the game. I run 8k in siege, 2k in games that have stutters with higher polling rates, and 1k on the desktop to save battery.
@@MrGiggles2196 exactlyyyyyyy. Changing DPI would mean they would have re-adjust their in-game sens. Too much work for them tbh. They are lazy ass gamers at the end of the day like the rest of us
@@ThisIsExile91 They are just clueless that's different. That's why they stick with their ancient settings and ideas. Being very good at playing doesn't make you competent at these things.. it's funny when people mindless copy pros lol
I will never use anything above 2k polling until windows fixes the issue with dragging windows to my second monitor. The border of my monitor should not act as a solid wall.
I play on a 240hz OLED and I just stick to 2K as well with 3200DPI. Don't notice that much (if any) difference any higher than that. Other than the battery life draining much faster. 1k is perfectly servicable though.
The only viable ending for the 8k polling rate ‘debate’ is to say that it’s a gimmick, useless, no one can use it, no one needs it, and everyone knows it and it make makes mice more expensive that they should be.
CPU monitoring my 12700KF whilst at each polling rate with my Feinmann F01: 1000Hz: 7-9% CPU use when spazzing out the mouse 2000Hz: 10-11% 8000Hz: 14% Rest of specs are Win 11 24H2, RTX 4090, 240Hz QD-OLED. So yeah factor in CPU utilisation when using higher polling rates too. 1k/2k as said is the go-to. I too use 1600dpi and don't use motion sync or ripple correction etc.
in my mind 4k+ refresh rates are taxing the CPU to the degree that the returns are negated and now some sort of negative is introduced. There's no basis for this though, I just choose to think it
I use 2000Hz polling on a wired Death Adder V3. It seems good to me. The main reason I don't use 8K is because it seems like kind of a waste with increased CPU use. Thumbs up!
8k polling rate glitches my superlight 2. It'll randomly aim to the sky every so often. Some games like cyberpunk, it cause franerate stutters. I stick to 2k polling now. Its the sweet spot.
im really super suprised people actually see the difference between the polling rates i played on 4k for like 3 monhts and battery life sucked ass on my ulx switched to 1k still cant see a difference maybe im not good enough 360hz zowie monitor
you can saturate your polling rate with every move, by increasing the dpi which increases the number of information the mouse needs to send. Thats why i use 3200 dpi and 0.5 sensi on cs2.
Why can 90% of people not notice the difference between 1k and 2khz? I can literally see a difference moving my mouse cursor on the desktop between those 2, where 1khz has visible microstutters and 2khz doesn't on my 270hz monitor.
I've always maintained that if you have a 360hz Monitor or above then there's a passable argument for 2K - That's IT, and boy is it MINIMAL with NOT A SINGLE DOUBLE BLIND A/B TEST TO BE FOUND - NOBODY wants to risk not being able to push 4K /8K mice in their videos.
its just diminishing returns if u want 8k polling rate go for it but unless ur using 30k high sense u are not going to take advantage of it and even then high polling rates increase cpu usage so youll be getting less frames
I tried both 4k and 2k, havent notice any differency, switched to 1k. I will try 2k after this video again. But like 50% cs pros using 1k pooling rate, from what i found, the number one player 2024 - donk - is using 1k pooling rate. So for me its still a thing that you probably wouldnt notice. I actualy would like to see someone doing a blind test with the pooling rates. That would be cool
Bro the kids with the ninja air finalmouse with 500 hz thinking their so cool lol. Idk if I should upgrade from a viper v2 pro with the 8k dongle. Great video
i tried 4k when i got my v3 pro on an 11700k, had insane fps drops on fortnite and even still had fps problems on 2k, i just got a 14900k so i guess ill be trying out 2k again soon
I'm actually creating my own mouse, polling rate only matters when you increase your dpi. 8khz vs 1khz at 800DPI makes no difference, the difference is even less when comparing a 120hz vs 144hz... if you then use let's say 8khz at 3200dpi it starts to make a "usable" difference.
I find the mouse polling rate debate hilarious when most people using these 8000hz mice don't even turn off ''Enhance pointer precision'' in Windows settings and have CPU's and USB hubs that can't handle them. I was obliterating lobbies in PUBG with an old wired GPro on 500hz polling + corepad skates with an 80hz overclocked shitty TN monitor some months ago, then I upgraded to an 280hz monitor and still use the same mouse and polling rate religiously and I still kick the same ass. Mouse polling rate might just be the most useless factor in gaming.
I’m using 2k Hz. I don’t personally feel that big of a difference between 2k and 1k but it doesn’t really affect the battery life that much so I’ll probably just stick to that until I upgrade my 240hz monitor
You can do an A/B blind test, and it is unlikely that anyone will be able to distinguish 1K from 4K or 8K. There are a lot of arguments here not in favor of those who believe in the miraculous 4K or 8K, if many do not even understand the basics and will only fall for the marketing. Donk plays on 1K and is still the best player of the year at his young age and the Major winner, other pro players are just testing high polling rate, they do not quite understand the difference between 1K or 4K. And most importantly, from my own personal experience with mice, keyboards and mousepads, you will not become a better player by buying expensive devices, if you're a skilled player, it does not matter what to play on
Yesterday, without knowing, i played two valo games witch 250hz and low performance mode and was hitting some crazy shots. Two mvps. Still back to 1000hz for whatever but now i think latency is bullshit.
my pc struggles to even hit 165 fps personally on any of my games but i feel like people tend to go too extreme with their opinions. if i had the money and the setup, i would for sure try 2k, 4k, and 8k. i imagine for me (as an average or slightly above average gamer) its not gonna increase my skill at the game but i'd love to try it imo at the end of the day if gaming is your hobby and you're working, have a bit of extra funds and want to gift yourself, why not try something new y'know. no need to have your head explode about min maxing
imho, you have to choose between high polling rate and weight, else you'll be charging the mouse once a day or two. With the trend of making sub 50g mouse getting traction, battery for those mice are just like 300mah or even 200mah. Combine that pitiful amount of battery with 4k or 8k polling rate, and you'll chew on that poor battery fast. So either you settle with 50g class and some 500mah battery, or go 35g class with 1k polling rate. Personally, I'll pick 35g over 8k, as I literally can't tell the difference.
yeah but in cs high polling rate doesn`t matter, your fps=your polling rate cuz it doesn`t have the same input as valorant does, you can play with 500 or 8k, you wouldn`t know the difference if your fps is lower than 500, so the data from shanghai major is kinda irrelevant :D but in valorant ofc it makes sense
What if we’re using OP1 8K purple frost which is stuck at 8khz pull rate and it’s the most responsive and accurate and lowest latency and fastest click response time mouse on market?
when a Finalmouse, small size, dot skates, 8000hz user gets destroyed by a crusty gpx 1, stock skates 500hz user or maybe a fkin g502 user
So many of these people don’t want to accept this reality. Lol
That’s me small Fm dot skates 8k hz but will have to switch to 4khz possibly
me literally (G502 user)
okay now give that final mouse to the other user lol. My final mouse legit helped me get from imo2 to 3. No going back to a 60g mouse.
dont forget that the free thinker has 5000hours in koovaks and takes gamer supplements to perform his bist. (he is plat 1 in valo)
Trolling Rate
Underrated post.
@@richardhunter9779 Underrated reply.
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior Underrated kindness.
Already reported this lame, scummy channel.
😂😂😂
I remember Coldzera hitting 30+ kills and being World Champion twice with a 500 Hz Zowie mouse.
I remember Taz literally winning kato 14 with a microsoft 1900s mouse
The same year, his teammate Fer was top 3 hltv using 125hz on rival 300. Literally. Not because his mouse had issues but he just liked 125hz more because a game he played before could only use 125 lol
@@SlarkCStaz was on an ec1 during kato14 iirc
yeah when sk/lg were winning majors they were all on 125hz or 500hz fer had the highest adr in pro league on 125hz lol
Also those ec2A za12A mice couldnt even get to 1000hz consistently going from 500-750-850 rarely 1000hz so most cs pro zowie users used 500hz since 1000hz wasnt stable…. Lmao..
my kids gonna be playing on 32k polling or what
1ms or 0,012 ms, then 0,00001 stuff… Why…
bro thinks he's gonna have kids
Doesn't exist
@vsnfudge dude just called me his kid on 35 000 dpi 😂
@@brzt4256
Polling rate is such a small variable. Sensor position is a huge one, but one cares, because you can't put a number on it and sell for a lot of money. Because no one cares, give us sensors with higher numbers, higher DPI, higher polling, higher version numbers. If it's new it's good.
Sensor position is very subjective which makes it tough, and like you said not many people or companies care
@@boardzy Which makes it even weirder that they are fixed. This very subjective issue, we are just gonna put a fixed random position on every mouse.
@@Volsia I think it's because of me, ngl.
Idk the finemen has horrible sensor latency at 1000hz but at 4000hz it feels like my other mice like gpx2 on 8000 and viper v2 4000
@@stefanpapdi5151 Sounds like a faulty mouse.
Hi! I'm planning on adding to the list of Australians who have made a video about high hz and have been doing some testing for it, and from what I've done so far there is actually a visible difference in averages between 1k and 2k+hz in aimtrainers, and that difference was more noticeable on a 480hz monitor compared to 240hz. I was honestly a bit surprised to see any difference but still need to do more testing to get statistically significant findings in either direction and if those improvements in aimtrainers will mean anything in actual fps games is a completely different discussion haha. It certainly isn't game changing but I don't think 1k vs 2khz can be dismissed as entirely placebo.
Another thing I think has gone a little overlooked is that there is a bit of research on the topic, there's a paper born from a twitter argument between a researcher and one of the blurbuster admins which was inconclusive but interesting to read through. What stood out to me was on page 7 there was a chart of temporal jitter sizes (which is how consistent cursor movements will look) for different combinations of polling rates and refresh rates and a 144hz monitor + 1000hz mouse actually sync up pretty well, having the same consistency of motion as 240hz 4khz. Some people are also more sensitive to temporal jitter than others which could explain why some people don't notice any difference while others say it's extremely visible.
tldr: polling rate matters more at higher hz, imo 1k is fine for 144hz but I don't see a reason not to use 2k if your mouse supports it, and you don't lose fps bc of it
heres the paper for anyone interested! dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3472749.3474783
I disagree with a few of it's findings but it was still an interesting read
yaaay my fav youtuber :3
thank you for bringing this up, it's nice to have at least something concrete and non anecdotal even if it may be a bit flawed
thanks for your input
there was no visible difference comparing 1k to an 8k pulling rate on a 540hz monitor being recorded in super slow Mo capture at 1000 frames per second. for reference you can see lighting move at 500 frames per second.
the difference between 1000 and 8k in terms of MS is just 0.75ms difference.
the avg reaction time of a human is 150 to 200ms. the best are around 100- 120 ms. if you can see and feel a difference. you should not only quit your job right now because you will get paid massively to be tested on. you should go ahead and break records that will stand for all time. because you literally surpassed the best of the best of the best by a whole 119.75 in responsive. the whole thing is a placebo effect. that is before i even tell you, the mouse in question arent always pulling at 8k. you would need to be moving the mouse very quick or be using high senn for the mouse to even use 8k all the time.
@@BrotherO4 just say you cant tell the difference and move on bro
Selling something advertised as 8khz polling while acknowledging that it may have instability and recommending using a lower polling rate is all I need to know about these companies.
Has nothing to do with the company, it’s about the games not supporting the high polling rate. Val/ow2 plays 8k very smooth
@@HeyNavi fr ow2 on 8k hz with my 9800x3d cpu works perfectly smooth
@@taffhy depends on the title with my 9800X3D.
@@TheBrandonAF overwatch it's smooth but i think the game optimizations matter more then the actual specs to a certain point for 8k hz
It's sad that anyone can say x is better without showing any testing or proof.
Welcome to fps community. Full of placebo merchants. They have become like how the audiophile community became.
@@nameless.0190Yup. Easiest way to call out their BS on the polling rate debate is to make them do a blind A/B test. 100% of people will not be able to notice the difference between 1K and 2/4/8K in any game. This isn't an exaggeration. You can definitely notice the difference between 1K and 2K on the desktop, but never in game. Anyone who says they can are walking, breathing manifestations of the placebo effect. Companies love grifting those suckers.
and what's your proof that your choice is better?
@shapeshifter7676 what?
@@nameless.0190 bro just welcome to the internet in general... anyone can say anything without any proof, evidence, or consequences. Always take everything with a grain of salt
I use 2k as well. Tried the other ones, at 4k (on a 9700k) I start noticing frame drops on cpu bound games that get really high fps like CS. 8k is downright unusable in a lot of games due to lack of support. I don't notice any performance hit on 2k so it seems like the sweet spot for now.
exactly, when I got a new mouse I tried to use 4k but I noticed stutters in KF2, realized what's up and went to 2k and no issues since
8khz is mostly unusable yeah but your CPU is ancient so it doesn't surprise me that you can't even use 4khz
@aquanos 5800x3d isn't so ancient
@@RomanMlejnek That cpu is old bro. Toss it in the trashcan and get a real cpu instead (9800x3d).
Use 2000hz I’m on 8700k and notice no issues
entire peripheral market is built off mid rank players thinking 'on paper' stats will make them pro.
facts
So is any enthusiast group 😂
it works. all the mid rank players are demons in valorant now. its annoying actually but it's good practice. back in the day all you needed to be good was some basic crosshair placement and a microsoft intellimouse or razer deathadder, logitech mx518
Exactly 😂
@@ArimaSenne1 valurant not bueno
If you can't win at 250Hz or 500Hz you will still lose at 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k.
The limiting factor is you.
Agreed, 500hz is actually really good in my opinion
@@scope333why
@@scope333 who are you? What's your rank in your main game or in Voltaic?
a pro player will do bettr on 2k polling rate than 250, no one's saying it will magically make you better but there's no reason to limit something with practically no downsides
@@Travixty these people are just delusional, let them be blind. That's means less competition for us.
Wait so the point of this video was "the pros and my viewers use them, so they're better, case closed"?
Most cs pros use 400 or 800 dpi which doesn't saturate even a 1000hz polling rate in aiming.
Brands give them these high polling rate mice for free.
its interesting because the cs pro argument was constantly used for why polling rate, weight, new mouse tech and higher quality mousepads were pointless since pros weren’t using them. but now that pros are upgrading, that argument is irrelevant all of a sudden
i agree though, i think boardzy could’ve definitely gone a bit more in-depth arguing for polling rate
@@drainstar333 Pros don't "upgrade". The brands give then products to use. That's why it's a bad argument to look at pros like this. We have tech that we can use to measure these things.
As an argument it doesn't go much further than saying "Hey, the guy in the advertisement is using one, so it must be better!"
However, if the pros don't bother upgrading, that is actual data. No-one is paying them NOT to upgrade. So likely the pros didn't care but their mouses just got a little old and when they asked for a replacement, they were sent high polling rate mouses. This is kind of proved by the fact that most CS pros have 400 or 800 DPI which does not saturate even a 2K polling rate mouse with normal movements. Even the 800 DPI doesn't saturate a 1000hz(!!!) polling rate when it comes to actual aiming and micro movements.
Also, pros often go on preference instead of optimal performance. Even someone like Monesy doesn't select high contrast opponents setting in CS, because he doesn't like the way it looks, even though it's objectively better for performance.
Arguably 400 hz is great for cs I used it for 3k hours and that’s the only way I played. Due to cs2 ruining csgo I mainly play Val and it is undeniable 800 is better in Val due to the significance of micro adjustments
@13Havoc There are hundreds of pros using 400hz. Even that doesn't mean that it's "great for cs"
Half of them CS pros using 8k and 4k polling rate, are using 400 dpi at the same time lol.
So they are not really "gaining anything" from using a higher polling rate (not that it matters much anyway).
They're gaining a ton of prize money from the tournaments. What are you gaining?
why not ? u got lower buttonclick delay so what ?
@@shapeshifter7676 you gotta be fucking retarded so say this.
it feels like more and more are switching to 800 nowadays since donk shat on the scene with 1.25@800
cs pros really dont know anything about tech🤣so many of them swear that 400 dpi is better than 1600dpi but that literally makes no sense, it would be the same to say 60hz is better than 144hz.
Switched to 500hz because 1k caused an issue in an old shooter I played. Kept it at that and genuinely forgot about it playing various other shooters at a very high level, and on a very good 240hz panel. What I can conclude is that there is absolutely no instance where that polling rate will make you ANY better. Just remember guys, you can schizo about a mouse setting, or you can play the game and actually get better. You will never find the secret setting lmao just get better there is someone out there with a g502 directly on their desk that will smoke you in your favourite game
I reached top 0,1% score in Kovaak’s task on G502 X :S
Git gud is the mouse setting of champions.
exactly lmao its all pure cope, Donk uses 1k hz and hes pissing on everyone
in fact, higher polling rate can make you "worse". because higher polling rate means the mouse will replicate your mouse movement better as it updates more frequent. This means those tiny shakes in your mouse movements will also be reflected on screen.
It'll potentially cause you to win in scenarios where you genuinely lost by milliseconds, but those occurrences are very infrequent and will not drastically change the percentage of kills you get in either direction. At best it'll help you get a few percentage points better, but do absolutely nothing noticable relative to another player with a remotely noticable gap.
1000 is the old reliable and the standard, 2000 is the chad, 4000 is for ego and 8000 is for the delusional
True lol
8k mice are worth using on high end systems due to higher clocks and TSC timer frequency. Sync your components to the same, double, or half frequency for the best results, as 8k polling rate has actual impact only if components are in sync (similar to FPS and monitor refresh rates).
To reduce stutters on Ryzen systems:
1 .Enable EHCI Traffic Handling (forces CPU to exit C-states when USB EHCI has traffic).
2. Disable XHCI interrupt moderation. This can save 15-50ms of latency on your usb controller, far more than any mouse upgrade. On modern systems, interrupt moderation thresholds are adjustable, unlike the fixed 1ms on Windows 7 so this one is no brainer.
While we are discussing frequencies, to my knowledge, phones and modems operate at 2400 Hz and 5000 Hz, so the closest polling rates are 2 kHz and 4 kHz. An 8 kHz polling rate is safe for now, but we must remember that higher frequency waves have lower range and are more prone to noise. Shielding your 8 kHz receiver with something like aluminum foil is definitely a good idea.
agree, if one get a 4k or 8k mouse with a bad setup (pc, monitor etc) it would be better trying low hz till pc wont be upgraded. I noticed with my lamzu on 4k and i was getting stuttering problems in games due my bad pc XD. I could consider like investment for future when i will upgrade pc
XHCI interrupt moderation is a dynamic 0-0.05ms latency that's dependant on cpu usage. You should definitely turn it off for games that require precision and timing.
@@Yoobe Yeah sure but o.5ms max? That cant be accurate, beside dwm thats why win 7 was somuch more responssive at 1ms. I wish i could rev eng without protection to actually see what the limits are but i dubt they would tie it to cpu usage because they know its buggy mess to detect even task manager is wierdbwith it when idle is disabled for example. Would you explain a litle where did you get this from
It seems to be tied directly to max pending interrupt to dpc treshold
There is a video already made about this. You cannot physically detect differences after 1-2k polling rate. This is like saying "if the atoms of your skin would have been in correct position, you would have hit that shot".
My friend I helped teach Overwatch eventually became a consistent longtime top 500 player and he is only on 1080p120hz screen. I agree with the videos conclusion and will rant about 480hz OLED being amazing and super fun for example but you don't need the best gear to be the best or anything. Just worth keeping in mind
top 500 moira doesn't mean much
144hz is enough to become pro in any game as long as u get good fps
@@casperd2100 I don't think I would be here talking about his rank vs monitor if he didn't know how to aim okay or was a Moira main 😂. That wouldn't make sense. My friend in question is usually around top 200-400 Tank and GM DPS with Widow and Tracer. He plays tank like x10 as much but has still been able to climb on dps. I think he could get top 500 dps if he reeaally wanted but I don't think he enjoys it as much.
I am a mid masters flex player at my best, but I play other games more often than just Overwatch like he does. In terms of heroes play everything, mostly dps and support, I used to be more a tank main but since 5v5 and rq I haven't been as interested in playing it. Sadly we have both been moving away from Overwatch recently after having played it since 2016.
@@El1as-- That was kind of my point, you don't necessarily need the best gear, he's on a relatively more modest setup with a 2060 for an idea with the stuff he's using it with.
But I will also still strongly rant how impactful/nice some upgrades are like 480hz OLED. It feels MORE than twice as good as 240hz imo, not due to the miniscule meaningless latency reduction but due to the massive increase in motion clarity. For the two weeks I had it before returning I felt like I was hitting some shots I couldn't believe and hadn't hit in the half a decade/5 years I have had my 1440p240hz monitor. I think even the difference between 120hz and 144hz is very noticeable once you have lots of practice. But even with all that you can do insanely well with a 1080p120hz monitor. The practice, the scrims, studying people that are better than you, and just playing the game is more important.
1:49 diminishing returns, jump from 500 to 1k is a lot more than 1k to 2k or 2k to 4k. I still personally believe that 2k would probably be the sweet spot though rn 1k is still the most balanced, honestly mouse manufacturers will make high polling rate more efficient on battery in the future anyway.
Exactly this
i'm a 2k truther. it seems like it barely makes a difference in battery life on my ulx too
@@piskoooooUr ulx has better sensor latency on 1000hz (-0.7ms on techpowerup testing) than 95% of the markets 4000hz implementations so 2000hz on it is great
nah 1k to 4k is a major jump stop going in increments thats your issue
@Xafia also be careful since many 4000hz mice have horrible 1000hz implementations, like more than half of them are very slow on 1000hz
1:13 Damn 144hz is the new 60hz 😂
to be fair from 60hz to 144 is the big diff everything after feels like 10% diff but 60 to 144 is like 70% diffrent
@@shusakudake this. Diminishing returns plays a role and it just varies between person to person. Going from 60hz to 144hz was an eye opener for me. Going into 240hz from 144hz wasn't nearly that impactful. I played at a LAN cafe when I was out of state with a 240hz monitor provided for a few weeks. I was able to go back to 144hz at home just fine. Meanwhile going back to 60hz makes my eyes bleed.
Lol he gotta be trolling, 480hz with dsc is dogshit. Id rather play 144-240 hz natively at 2k.
I could already tell he knows nothing about monitors when he thinks 144Hz is the cause of ghosting and screen tearing
@@fnvfanMSPRMy thoughts exactly 🤣
Any polling rate above 2k causes stuttering issues for me in most games
U have shit cpu
This is because windows 10 doesn’t handle high polling rates well, but the newer versions of w11 work perfectly.
Electrifying
truly
Only way to really know the truth is do some randomised blinded trial where people are given the different poling rates in series without them knowing which one is which and then someone records if they notice the difference. Like 15min per random rate and after each timespan the person has to guess which rate it was.
Got the OP1 8K last week and absolutely notice the difference between 1k and 8k hz, feels snappier on initial movement and hard stop
An important thing I learned after more than a decade studying this stuff is: just because you can feel the difference-the micro-nuances between polling rates or DPI values-doesn't mean it's actually helping you more than placebo. I mean, less input lag is good, but in pratice, the curve of how much you benefit from it drops off hard after even 1k. Curiously, my findings kinda align with the settings most pro players use. Honestly, I feel like the future is more about custom-made shells than hardware improvements when comes to mouses for e-sports.
also depends on the game a lot. some mice lagged my osu out so horribly (20 FPS) that I couldn't play so I was forced to play at a lower Hz. corsair mice are awful for this and I can only assume it gets worse the higher you go.
I really dont understand your narrative, the fact that 50% of cs pros still use 1000hz just further proves that polling rate barely matters? These guys are so unbelievable competitive and theres so much at stake, if there was and actual noticeable advantage to using 2k polling then they would all be using it. I genuinely cant tell if this video is satire or not in struggling man😂
Cs officially supports aimbotting so mouse discussion is irrelevant
First part is true, but the part about if there was a noticeable advantage they would switch isn't true. lots of csgo pros refuse to use any dpi higher than 400 even though it is undesputable that 1600 is advantageous, although again, it isn't insanely game changing just like hz
@@goochipoochie You are delulu
No pros are notoriously slow in adopting new things
@@Frozoken Im not sure if thats the case anymore. I see allot of pros nowadays who try a new mouse every 12 weeks. Its not how it used to be
Hey, that’s me at the start under your Tweet, truly shocking indeed 😮 2k all the way 🔥
8000hz 🤏😴...
GXSPEED ON 🚬🗿
EGG GODLIKE
ants gif
true and true
Trash mouse
thanks Boardzy, great pointers
I have 540hz monitor and I mainly use 500hz polling rate when I play CS. I'm not any good, but not a total noob also (2200 faceit). As far as I know CS2 engine doesn't process mouse input between frames, that's why high polling not gonna make any even theoretical difference. However, when I play Val it's always 4k hz. I can instantly notice image become "stutterish" when I just look around on a 500hz polling, also hit register is a lot better on a 4k, esp flicks and 1 taps. So it really depends on a game engine and mouse input processing implementation.
so basically:
is higher polling rate objectively better? yes
do you need high polling rates to be good? no
is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rate to push skill ceiling worth it? yes
will upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates make you a pro? no
is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates useful? only for good enough setups/games that can run it smoothly
is upgrading peripherals/increasing polling rates affordable? yes
therefore:
higher polling rates is worth it
90 for a mouse is indeed pretty expensive
2:30 game cheat software, transitioning from membrane to Mechanical or to Hall Effect, Better spatial audio, wider screens, better resolutions, a new GPU/CPU if you couldn't produce enough frames, perhaps a better mouse/deskpad, a hand or arm sleeve, coaching, PEDs, corrective lenses, a pet, etc ...
3:10 you are simply wrong about this. Click timing is not reliant of how many frames your display can produce per second. There are still advantages to high polling even with lower Hz monitors as well as lower FPD performance within game... You're confusing the relation between those independent inputs and outputs.
I just shocked all over the screen
Such a good video man thank you so much.
Ive tried playing on 4k and for the longest time my pc had this werid and HUGE fps drops (like my gane literally froze for 2 or 3 seconds). Took me about a month of suffering before I thought about my polling rate being the issue. Even bought a new mouse (the razer viper v3 pro, used to be on a logitech g pro 2). After all that I found out it was being caused by the polling rate and I never really understood how.
After watching this I can see that having a wireless headset, mouse and keyboard plus my router right next to my dongles on my table is defenitly why lol.
might be the most fire thumbnail yet
Bugha won the World Cup in Fortnite with the finalmouse ninja air 58, having a max 500 hz polling rate.
lol
Open up a pooling rate test, move your mouse around , let me know what numbers you see . Most of the time mouse is working well bellow 1000 .
zowie used to not even go to much above 500hz much less 1000hz on their A-series and most pros used 500hz for stability…
@stefanpapdi5151 Yeah i mean if you were to move it around like you are playing ( Cs ) in my case, numbers are avg like 500 as you said , or even lower . Its only on constant moving in circles you can hit 1k or higer . And again as you mentioned keyword "stability" no1 wants to think about possible issues, expecialy in some scenarios like tournaments or any competitive game . By that logic, its simply not worth to experiment with, for such small difference . If a high end gear doesnt give you skill, nor will 1ms difference in latency . Its all about being consistent, in competitive gameplay .
Average 4000.074 hz
Median: 4001.601 hz
1 Percentile: 3660.322 hz
5800x3d+4070 super+240hz monitor here, currently rocking 4k/8k with 0 issues. Those high polling rates do add additional smoothness in gun flicking scenarios
mac mini (2012) + 60hz monitor here, currently rocking 1k with 0 issues. my mouse cant go higher than 1k.
This! Flicking is when you notice the higher polling rate the most. Not sure if there is an aim labs scenario that trains this but if there was, you'd see a lot more players favoring higher polling rates to achieve the highest scores
@evmadic also agreed. I noticed it with my wingman accuracy. I was able to track strafe better on 8k over everything else. Although the extra polling does bring out more tiny mistakes under pressure for me.
Same setup but 4070 super and 280hz. I was a nonbeliever until i turned 4k on on a whim. Felt the difference on 800dpi.
@@cream_mc132 based
Subbed within the first 24 seconds, didn't even need to watch the rest of the video
ENDING The Boardzy Baby Oil Debate (shocking)
At 360hz refresh rate, the difference is small, but noticeable. I suppose it depends on how sensitive you are to small changes. But even on the desktop I can see the difference between all the polling rates up to around 2khz-4khz. I moved the mouse in a fast circle and I could see the gaps in the perceived trails tightening up. The difference between 2khz and beyond was a lot more negligible/imperceptible, but obviously I would be curious to try it out on a 750hz+ monitor some day to see if I can sense anything further.
1:48 I have to disagree at this part, 500hz to 1000hz is a big jump and even a non tryharding person like me can see the difference, but 1khz to 8khz doesn't give me that same impression, it doesn't even feel different at all tbh
You’re just going with the grain. Calling 500 to 1k a big jump yet thinking improvements stop there is laughable
@@boardzy the higher the polling rate is, the less you can feel the difference, if you really think 1k+ polling rate is that important, try to do a blind test to see if you can distinguish the polling rates consistently. Personally I value the 8k on my mouse because I know it reduced a bit of latency for me, but using 1k is just fine and won't hinder my performance
@@adnope You said you aren't a tryhard and I doubt you have a great monitor. So it doesn't really matter for you, I would pass a blind test and people would say I cheated, no point. Nobody ever said 1k is bad
@@boardzy the 480hz oled 1440p monitor with 8kz polling rate on top of the 9800x3d cpu is jus too good
I love how i'm only 1cm/360 away from the average, always thought that number would be lower since it seems a lot of people are still using higher sens.
Polling rate is tied to DPI. The higher your DPI the slower you can move your mouse to saturate the polling rate.
Can u eli5 this for me plz? I’m on 900 DPI and when I flick on a shot on high polling rate (4k+) it stutters and causes frame rate to drop into 90s
@@robertobarrios7096 I don't know exactly what is causing your framedrops as that might be system specific. If you don't mind, what are your pc specs?
As for the polling rate and dpi relationship, what part are you struggling to understand the most? I can try to help you understand I just need to know what you are most confused about.
@ 4080S and 7800x3d. What do u mean by having to move mouse slower to saturate the polling rate. And is polling rate significant in game play?
@@robertobarrios7096 for some reason my comment got deleted.
I edited my comment to fix the misunderstanding. I meant that the higher your DPI is the less you have to move the mouse in order to take advantage of higher polling rates.
CS2 players need to realize that 400DPI is a crap way to play the game
When was the last time you won a CS major?
it only matters if you have a high polling rate mouse (as seen in the optimum video) you only benefit from playing at 800 dpi or 1600 dpi when your mouse is at 2k or 4k HZ
otherwise its better to play at 400dpi on 1k HZ because of pixel skipping
you need to realize that they became pros on CS using 400dpi
say that to s1mple or zywoo who is on 400dpi 1khz.
@@shapeshifter7676 "my fav pro won major using g502 therefore its best mouse period"
Thxx Pollfessor Boardzy 🙏
I’d love to see data on the polling rates used by CS:GO pros, the percentage breakdown of each polling rate and how they correlate with leaderboard rankings or win rates. It would be fascinating to analyze if there's a trend among top-performing players and polling rate!
I suspect there's not
There shouldn’t be. Actual brains, training, skill gets involved at pro level. Their reaction time is extremely fast and accurate to the point that polling rate or
Most use 1000Hz, some use 500Hz. If you gonna use a wireless mouse it saves a bit of battery and puts less stress on CPU
Woudn't be surprised if you could improve your fps 1% lows by using lower polling rate.
the pros are not playing online, so in tournament setting is faster and no delay
Erm, you do realise you have many different latency’s right? The pc latency is one, and the mouse hz effects that.
Boardzy i saw you at microcenter muttering under your breath as you were trying the reddragon brand mice
That's so specific
the funny thing is, no one uses an 8k mouse for fortnite because it simply couldnt handle it. Even with a 14700k i get crazy stutters when flicking around at 4k...
Almost everybody uses 8k mice, they just don't enable 8k polling
@@boardzy thats right :)
Thanks man for the c states info
if a guy is bad he will be sad at 8k when the guy is good he will be in mood at 1k
Yeah I am using a hub because I work from home and switch between devices while working. I was wondering why the polling tester sites were capping off and was so confused for a bit before I realized the reason. But thankfully it goes up to 2.5k still so, that's not the worst. I need to get a better one though so I can actually test 8k and keep my setup.
Thing is once increasing monitor refresh rate you want to increase mouse polling rate, to be number of times higher. We're finally getting monitors with clarity we had with good CRT monitors, be it strobed LCD or now finally OLED yey. So eventually 1000Hz OLED will come, then 8000Hz polling rate will make much more sense along with like 3200CPI that will be fun.
thank you i can now sleep well at night
The inestability 8k polling rate mice can have i think that is objectively worse than 1k polling rate
To be honest, more companies should implement 8k clicks just like endgame gear is doing(EGG claimed that their kalih gx switches are always at 8k with gx speed mode turn on, regardless of what the mouse polling rate is) since not much ppl gonna use 4K and above anyway, might as well add a independent switch polling rate option to use high polling on the clicks
Thank you for the Magic Ice skate recommendation... Probably the best full skates I've ever tested. 🙂
Bro never mind the 8k thing ... That monitor is insane, they really making these now? Man we've come a long ways.
I just set up profiles to autodetect the game. I run 8k in siege, 2k in games that have stutters with higher polling rates, and 1k on the desktop to save battery.
50+% of the CS Pros using 2k or higher polling, and not a single one of them is using a DPI high enough to saturate those polling rates lol.
@@free_microwave Facts.
EHHHHHHHHHH WRONG,
sh1ro
Niko
Twist
JL
EliGE
are 5 off the top of my head lol.
I mean for one the click latency always benefits. 2. someone on 2k at 800dpi is not gonna be getting 0 benefit
@@MrGiggles2196 exactlyyyyyyy. Changing DPI would mean they would have re-adjust their in-game sens. Too much work for them tbh. They are lazy ass gamers at the end of the day like the rest of us
@@ThisIsExile91 They are just clueless that's different. That's why they stick with their ancient settings and ideas. Being very good at playing doesn't make you competent at these things.. it's funny when people mindless copy pros lol
I will never use anything above 2k polling until windows fixes the issue with dragging windows to my second monitor. The border of my monitor should not act as a solid wall.
even with refresh rates, the higher it is the more negligable the returns
I play on a 240hz OLED and I just stick to 2K as well with 3200DPI. Don't notice that much (if any) difference any higher than that. Other than the battery life draining much faster.
1k is perfectly servicable though.
35000 dpi 8k pollinng rate with pointer speed all the way down and it feels like 800 dpi. Absolutely amazing
Zoomergroid brain. Higher number = better tech.
The only viable ending for the 8k polling rate ‘debate’ is to say that it’s a gimmick, useless, no one can use it, no one needs it, and everyone knows it and it make makes mice more expensive that they should be.
CPU monitoring my 12700KF whilst at each polling rate with my Feinmann F01:
1000Hz: 7-9% CPU use when spazzing out the mouse
2000Hz: 10-11%
8000Hz: 14%
Rest of specs are Win 11 24H2, RTX 4090, 240Hz QD-OLED.
So yeah factor in CPU utilisation when using higher polling rates too. 1k/2k as said is the go-to. I too use 1600dpi and don't use motion sync or ripple correction etc.
in my mind 4k+ refresh rates are taxing the CPU to the degree that the returns are negated and now some sort of negative is introduced. There's no basis for this though, I just choose to think it
that stache deserves some FDNY drip to match
I use 2000Hz polling on a wired Death Adder V3. It seems good to me. The main reason I don't use 8K is because it seems like kind of a waste with increased CPU use. Thumbs up!
8k polling rate glitches my superlight 2. It'll randomly aim to the sky every so often. Some games like cyberpunk, it cause franerate stutters.
I stick to 2k polling now. Its the sweet spot.
im really super suprised people actually see the difference between the polling rates i played on 4k for like 3 monhts and battery life sucked ass on my ulx switched to 1k still cant see a difference maybe im not good enough
360hz zowie monitor
Ok so I don’t have to change my dpi and polling rate. Perfect
you can saturate your polling rate with every move, by increasing the dpi which increases the number of information the mouse needs to send. Thats why i use 3200 dpi and 0.5 sensi on cs2.
2:07 KRUNKER MENTIONED OMG!
Why can 90% of people not notice the difference between 1k and 2khz? I can literally see a difference moving my mouse cursor on the desktop between those 2, where 1khz has visible microstutters and 2khz doesn't on my 270hz monitor.
thumbnail masterclass
I've always maintained that if you have a 360hz Monitor or above then there's a passable argument for 2K - That's IT, and boy is it MINIMAL with NOT A SINGLE DOUBLE BLIND A/B TEST TO BE FOUND - NOBODY wants to risk not being able to push 4K /8K mice in their videos.
its just diminishing returns if u want 8k polling rate go for it but unless ur using 30k high sense u are not going to take advantage of it and even then high polling rates increase cpu usage so youll be getting less frames
whats the number for "waaaaay more latency than your opponents" at 1k vs 2 4 or 8k? how much more? 🤨
If you couldn’t understand that was a joke ur ngmi
@@boardzy i always trust a man with a pie chart, so it doesn't matter then Dr? 🥸
@@boardzy I always trust a man talking over a pie chart. so it doesn't matter then? shocking stuff TY Dr. 🥸🎄
I am a actually using 500Hz. If I can't get a "tangible" difference by using higher polling, then there's no reason for me to do it.
I tried both 4k and 2k, havent notice any differency, switched to 1k. I will try 2k after this video again. But like 50% cs pros using 1k pooling rate, from what i found, the number one player 2024 - donk - is using 1k pooling rate. So for me its still a thing that you probably wouldnt notice. I actualy would like to see someone doing a blind test with the pooling rates. That would be cool
i use 4k cause 8k causes stutter issues in almost all games i play, Rust, CS2
Bro the kids with the ninja air finalmouse with 500 hz thinking their so cool lol. Idk if I should upgrade from a viper v2 pro with the 8k dongle. Great video
i tried 4k when i got my v3 pro on an 11700k, had insane fps drops on fortnite and even still had fps problems on 2k, i just got a 14900k so i guess ill be trying out 2k again soon
500hz: every 2 ms
1000hz: every 1 ms
2000hz: every 0.5 ms
Can you differentiate between 1 ms and 0.5ms? You can't, none can.
I'm actually creating my own mouse, polling rate only matters when you increase your dpi. 8khz vs 1khz at 800DPI makes no difference, the difference is even less when comparing a 120hz vs 144hz... if you then use let's say 8khz at 3200dpi it starts to make a "usable" difference.
I find the mouse polling rate debate hilarious when most people using these 8000hz mice don't even turn off ''Enhance pointer precision'' in Windows settings and have CPU's and USB hubs that can't handle them. I was obliterating lobbies in PUBG with an old wired GPro on 500hz polling + corepad skates with an 80hz overclocked shitty TN monitor some months ago, then I upgraded to an 280hz monitor and still use the same mouse and polling rate religiously and I still kick the same ass. Mouse polling rate might just be the most useless factor in gaming.
I’m using 2k Hz. I don’t personally feel that big of a difference between 2k and 1k but it doesn’t really affect the battery life that much so I’ll probably just stick to that until I upgrade my 240hz monitor
You can do an A/B blind test, and it is unlikely that anyone will be able to distinguish 1K from 4K or 8K. There are a lot of arguments here not in favor of those who believe in the miraculous 4K or 8K, if many do not even understand the basics and will only fall for the marketing. Donk plays on 1K and is still the best player of the year at his young age and the Major winner, other pro players are just testing high polling rate, they do not quite understand the difference between 1K or 4K. And most importantly, from my own personal experience with mice, keyboards and mousepads, you will not become a better player by buying expensive devices, if you're a skilled player, it does not matter what to play on
Donk is 17 and has prime reaction time and processing speed. He would be too good if he switched to high polling
@@boardzy I'll disappoint you if I say that CS2 doesn't support High Polling Rate
Yesterday, without knowing, i played two valo games witch 250hz and low performance mode and was hitting some crazy shots. Two mvps. Still back to 1000hz for whatever but now i think latency is bullshit.
high polling rate feels slower for me somehow... im fine with 500-1000
my pc struggles to even hit 165 fps personally on any of my games but i feel like people tend to go too extreme with their opinions. if i had the money and the setup, i would for sure try 2k, 4k, and 8k. i imagine for me (as an average or slightly above average gamer) its not gonna increase my skill at the game but i'd love to try it
imo at the end of the day if gaming is your hobby and you're working, have a bit of extra funds and want to gift yourself, why not try something new y'know. no need to have your head explode about min maxing
imho, you have to choose between high polling rate and weight, else you'll be charging the mouse once a day or two. With the trend of making sub 50g mouse getting traction, battery for those mice are just like 300mah or even 200mah. Combine that pitiful amount of battery with 4k or 8k polling rate, and you'll chew on that poor battery fast. So either you settle with 50g class and some 500mah battery, or go 35g class with 1k polling rate. Personally, I'll pick 35g over 8k, as I literally can't tell the difference.
the op1 8k is proof that high polling and stuff ain't that expensive
yeah but in cs high polling rate doesn`t matter, your fps=your polling rate cuz it doesn`t have the same input as valorant does, you can play with 500 or 8k, you wouldn`t know the difference if your fps is lower than 500, so the data from shanghai major is kinda irrelevant :D but in valorant ofc it makes sense
I think it's more of a placebo effect rather then actual difference
What if we’re using OP1 8K purple frost which is stuck at 8khz pull rate and it’s the most responsive and accurate and lowest latency and fastest click response time mouse on market?
Its not stuck at 8k polling what? If you have a good system+monitor it will feel great though
Its not stuck at 8K. And the benefits of that mouse are the same at 1k, its not like other mice.