The Magician's Twin: C.S. Lewis and the Case against Scientism
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2012
- Coming soon, part 3 in this series: C.S. Lewis & Intelligent Design
www.cslewisweb.com
More than a half century ago, famed writer C.S. Lewis warned about how science (a good thing) could be twisted in order to attack religion, undermine ethics, and limit human freedom. In this documentary "The Magician's Twin: C.S. Lewis and the Case Against Scientism," leading scholars explore Lewis's prophetic warnings about the abuse of science and how Lewis's concerns are increasingly relevant for us today.
Is anyone else watching this just for that STS subject
I do but after watching it is interesting.
Yes.. help naman jan lol
Hi 😹🙌
it's possible.
I suppose.
You got 71 likes in 9 months.
That must mean something!
(unlike your comment.)
(-;
me
I'm here for our assignment in STS hahaha
Me too
What’s that?
Do you agree with the quote: "The future belongs to science." -J. Nehru?
I'm surprised they allow you to study the book...It might be banned and burned in the next five years..
My subject is ScTS
Kakatamad gumawa ng reflection sa sts yawa HAHAHAHAHHA
first way is found in 5:39 ....second in 9:51 and last in 17:31
Ans 3: from 19:52
Ans 4 from 21:48
Ans 5 from 25:41
The Magician's Twin: C.S Lewis and the Case against Scientism
Science has made the world as we know it, but at what cost?
Three prophetic writers warned about the ark side of science in the first half of the 20th century: G.K. Chesterton, George Orwell, and C.S. Lewis.
C.S. Lewis was fascinated on scientism- "the effort to use the methods in science to explain and control every part of human life"
He attacked the idea that the methods of natural science should be the bar at which every other intellectual discipline should be held
Science can be corrupted, people may go after science for control over other people.
It is very dangerous to deify science- social science in nazi Germany
Lewis saw that wars had roots in abuses in the scientific method
"Science and Magic are twins"
-Science as religion
A magical view of the world gives us the sense that there is something out there whether one is religious or not- fairy tales; nature is magical
Science can give this same sense-evolution; man has developed out of nothing into what we are now agains all odds and struggles
"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."
people offer science as a religion; Darwin day
-Science as Credulity
lack of skepticism
magic-believing people will believe anything said by "witches"
people will believe anything if it's dressed up as science.
-Freudianism- "All reasoning...is based on sub-rational urges," "We can't analyze those urges," "There isn't real reason that we can judge based on evidence," "We can't be self-critical"
Shortly after accepting christianity, C.S. Lewis satirized him in his allegory The Pilgrim's Regress; John is thrown into jail by Ziguzmun (Frued) which is guarded by a giant who turns things transparent by looking at them; if you try to deconstruct everything, you'll end up with nothing
-Evolutionism-"Matter could magically transform itself into complex and conscious living things trough a blind and unguided process."
Creative Evolution(L'évolution Créatrice) by Henri Bergson-How could something so complex like a human eye be caused by evolution?
"Reason was simply the unforeseen and unintended byproduct of a mindless process based on survival of the fittest."
"If my own mind is a product of the irrational, how should I trust my mind when it tells me about evolution?"-C.S. Lewis
"But then with me the horrid doubt always arises wether convictions of a man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"-Charles Darwin
If evolution is true, we should assume that our intellectual capacities are consistent with survival enhancing behaviors, but we have no reason to believe that we have the intellectual capacity to know truth. If Darwinism is true, we shouldn't believe our reasoning.
"How could a mindless process produce minds"
-Science as Power
The quest for power
Magicians wanted to have power over nature to control it.
Much of modern science was devoted to power over the world, people hoped science would bring peace to the modern world; scientific utopia
Science can bring good things, but the tendency to try to control things was dangerous. If you can't find an ethically based limitation for science, the future is bleak.
-Lewis critiqued scientific utopianism in his novel That Hideous Strength, in which there is a conspiracy to transform England into a scientific dictatorship with the National Institute of Coordinated Experiments, or NICE
sterilization of the unfit, selective breeding, biochemical conditioning, experimentation on animals and criminals, and scientific planning that pretended to provide a new humanity without traditional restraints
He depicts a world in which nothing is sacred, so there ae no distinctions between the value of humans and the value of anything else.
Near his death, C.S. Lewis worried about the rise of Scientific Authoritarianism.
People opposed to scientific deification are often labeled as "anti-science"
Knowing how things work doesn't tell you what you should do for a society. Scientists are not moral philosophers, so a person's scientific knowledge doesn't give them the right to dictate people in the name of science.
"I dread government in the name of science. That is how tyrannies come in."-C.S. Lewis
Conclusion: Science is a good and a bad thing. The biggest threat of science is the tendency to control people, because scientific knowledge leads people to believe anything you say. People may think that because of their knowledge, they should be able to dictate what people should do. Lewis stressed how we need a limit of what science can do that respected human rights.
$cience is golden.... golden.
Thank you for this summary😊
Priscilla Harbani
You’ve made a lot of true and valid comments. You could argue that more people are unwittingly deifying science than ever as many scientists are making naive philosophical claims that are clearly beyond the reach of the four “sciences”. The fact is “science” is just a word an adjective to describe the methodological approach found in all subjects such as mathematics, philosophy, logic linguistics etc. Even atheists are starting to worry about the presumption of sociobiological reductionists not to mention the pretentions of “Scientism” hence books written by eminent atheist philosophers such as Mary Midgeley such as (Evolution as a religion) and (Are you an Illusion). C.S. Lewis actually predicted this would happen back in the 1940s in his thought provoking book (The Abolition of Man). This has similar themes and worries regarding the future of humanity as both George Orwell’s book (1984) and GK Chestertons (Orthodoxy).
Thanks mate
Omg thanks💚
The video doesn't say science is a religion; it discusses how some people can twist science and treat it like a religion... the examples given are HG Wells (from the time of CS Lewis) and Richard Dawkins (from today). As for why the video discusses Freud, this video is primarily about C.S. Lewis's views on science and scientism, and Freud was one of the people he was interested in.
2:25
5:00
Science as Religion 5:40
Science as Credulity 9:55
Science as Power 17:30
C.S. Lewis on Science 26:30
If you tell me what part of the video you are thinking of, I can probably tell you the music. We licensed music from a variety of sources for this project (the sources are provided in the credits at the end).
It's a Royalty Free piece called "Suspicion Confirmed" available as part of the MAX TRAX collection at CSS Music.
Hi kng may nakabasa dito na pinapanuod to for STS HAHAHAHAH
Such well made videos, quite excellent in educational and presentational terms.
Thanks for these additional thoughts. I think the issue is not whether science is a good thing (I think it is), but what are its proper limits, and how to protect against its abuse. It's well and good to say that science is "self correcting and non-dogmatic," but in the history of science, this is often far from the case. Scientists are human beings just like everyone else, and human beings often are not self-correcting and are very dogmatic.
Why did you stop posting ? Your channel has a huge potential. Please, consider making videos again!
I completely agree with your opinion and analysis!
As disgusted as i am with the fraud and corruption i see today from many in the scientific community, i still feel science and religion can and should co exist to the benefit of human kind.
The danger of science today is the influence of non scientific investors/financiers on the body.
With distrust so high, we are bound to have another awful violent reaction and a reversion to a new "dark age"
If we the citizens of planet earth can not halt this current movement led by folks with more of a socio-political agenda, we risk this turning into an awfully violent clash once again.
Maybe what's happening is more a weakness of markets?
We seem to be placing profits above humanity.
Personally i believe in markets and prefer limited governance but maybe at the ugliest end, those with the greatest means can create the society they deem worthy of pursuit.
Is oligarchy superior to democracy?
If not, just how limiting should governance be?
We need science because we have this great capacity for intellect and knowledge which should not go to waste, but how dowe reign things in without resorting to totalitarianism?
Well done and informative. Great points made. Thank you to the people who made the documentary.
Thank you for publishing this. I have shared a link to it with my own positive commentary added at my site. When I tried to publish the address it was not permitted.
That was interesting enough on its own, but that soundtrack made it even better! Thanks for sharing..
This is really fascinating. Really gets you to thinking. Thanks for uploading this.
Before I was a serious Christian, I found CS Lewis dry and uncompelling. Now that I am one, I think his voice is likely more vital today than it ever has been. Makes me humble as a Catholic, how brilliant this Anglican visionary was.
"the abolition of man" and "screwtape proposes a toast" are particularly more true and relevant now concerning our broken education systems and the way democracy itself is slowly turning authoritarian than when lewis first wrote them. its amazing the sense of prescience he had concerning where trends were going in society.
This film is outstanding. Lewis had his doubts about a purely naturalistic view of science and I'm thrilled to see that coming to light. Discovery Institute did a wonderful job putting this piece together, I hope many more people see it.
In fact, C S Lewis was a very staunch Christian. He chronicled his conversion in 'Surprised by Joy'. Many of his books dealt with Christian themes. He was also a deeply intelligent, sceptical thinker, and did not let his life be led by 'isms' of any description!
9:55 "Science as credulity". A second way in which science and magic are similar, according to Lewis, is their encouragement of a lack of skepticism. In magic you can think that the tribe has a witch doctor and they just trust what he says. Lewis pointed out that in the modern world people will believe almost anything if it is dressed up in the name of science". Good point- and even truer then than now.
Global warming is Fake science. This is just what Mr Lewis was talking about, but we didn't listen. Now look where we are 🤔. Jesus, I will Trust in You 😎
I think he hit the nail on the head when you look at how a handful of people have shut down the world over/through fear with/of the CV in the start of 2020.
As I read through the comments it is striking that many of the commenters who support the ideas in the video are "marked as spam" when they clearly are not. They make sincere comments and someone comes through and attempts to get the comments removed. I wonder who would do that? It speaks volumes about the validity of those who advocate for scientism.
Nagka pandemic na pero go parin prof namin sa pagawa ng ganitong assignments haysss
I enjoyed around the 3-minute mark.. It held a classical feel and then moved into a more current vibe.
eerily prophetic is right. These are things I've been thinking about and noticing in society lately. It's impressive to think that Lewis saw this coming a long time ago.
Lewis would have agreed with you about the value and truth of science. As this video points out, his problem was with the abuse of science ("scientism") and the attempt to apply it to areas outside its proper bounds. The greater irony is how science, which is based on rationality, has been misused by some (Freud and Darwin, to name two) to undermine the legitimacy of reason itself.
Actually, the point of this video is that there is a danger that science can also succumb to the most dangerous trappings of belief that have enslaved many religions. As human beings, we often choose to believe what we want to believe and condemn any point-of-view that challenges our belief. We passionately defend our own intellectual and philosophical turf without ever questioning whether the things we choose to believe in are rational or valid.
C.S. Lewis had a great mind. Hats off to you guys. All these thoughts going on in my mind, are all highlighted in these videos. It is good seeing them presented in your videos. Thanks again.
Have you ever considered doing a 2017 documentary, to keep this info up to date?
28:05 - 30:25 Fantastic conclusion
Strange that Wallace's notion of evolution wasn't featured here, since there was significant overlap with Lewis's view. Always enjoying seeing intelligent people arguing against fundamentalist scientism and all the horrors of instrumental technological reason. David F. Noble's 'The Religion of Technology' cannot be recommended highly enough in this context.
It is interesting to see the extent to which the definition of term "Scientism" has shifted. Nowadays it applies much more to Scientific Materialism- which is a form of scientific philosophy based on the idea that all phenomena can be explained as epiphenomena of the behaviour of atoms and other elementary or near elementary particles. That idea has, of course, become untenable in light of the new understandings of quantum physics, but it still holds many in its sway.
Lewis is one of my favorite "Thinkers" of the 20th C. It was absolutely brilliant to deduce that rational cannot come from the irrational, or that reason could not be produced by a blind unreasoning process. In the same sense, morality cannot be produced from a blind, uncaring, random process such as evolution.
As an apologist, I reason with folks on the rational basis that we are hard-wired to seek God. The evidence is all around us (Romans 1) first of all, and secondly in human behavior we see the search for the divine every single day! The fact there are so many "Religions" only seeks to enhance this view in my mind. As Pascal said, there is a "God shaped hole" in us, and it is human nature to seek to fill it. Whether with "God" or with some other substitute, we will always seek to fill that void.
Many believe the rise of "Science" is salvation for human kind. I argue that it has only served to make us more efficient at killing. More people were killed in wars in the 20th C. than in all of history prior to that - combined. More people were killed in Genocides in the 20th C. than in all of history prior to that - combined. More Christians were martyred for their faith in the 20th C. than in all 1900 years prior to that - combined. And the kicker? More babies were slaughtered in the womb in the 20th C. than all those other numbers - combined.
We are not "Evolving" and getting better, if anything we are getting worse, more bloodthirsty, more barbarous. It is simply veiled in a belief system labeled as "Science" and taught to our children as a system of rational thought and behavior when in reality it is nothing but a system of mind control in order to strip them of their freedom and moral conscience. As the NAZI's found, if you can strip a man of his moral conscience and make him allegiant to some "National" ideal, you can easily persuade him to do just about anything. In reality, that is nothing more than "Mob rule" as we are now witnessing in our culture with Antifa and other "Social justice" belief systems.
STS MADE ME DO IT! HAHA
What are the titles of the background music in the video? I like them all
When we cannot explain what we see, thats up to religion...
The name of science is slapped with truth and evidences, it doesnt draw a faint line between two entities yet it displays clear distinction with what we should refer to as faith and what we shall see as knowledge over the heels of explaination.
Before C.S. Lewis and George Orwell, there was Jonathan Swift. Gulliver's Travels Part 3, Chapters 1-3 deals with a floating island called Laputa. There, science is king and people spend all there time(when they are not bombing or blocking out the sun of the "little people" below them)doing abstract scientific experiments that have no real life reason or purpose. It's one of the greatest satires on Western Science ever written and worth the read.
Thanks. Will do. I attended public ed - read "gov't schools" - after elementary school (through grad school) so there is much catching up to do.
+Miatacrosser in 1986 Studio Ghibli did a movie called, "Castle in the Sky" in which the floating castle/island of Laputa figured prominently. see [www.imdb.com/title/tt0092067/]
Jeff Wiebe
I read a book by that title at least twenty years ago in which a dirigible was floating around doing pretty much what Laputa did in G'sTs. Now I have to go and find it so I can see if it's the same story. I'm willing to bet, though, that that is what the movie was based on. Thanks
+Miatacrosser except that almost all actual scientific expirements *do* have real life reason or purpose.
James Wilkerson
That is what they thought on Laputa too.
Look I realize that science looks to uncover the mysteries in the world we live but there is a large portion of them that are TOLD what to look for and to achieve a certain outcome by an outside financial source who intend to use their paid shills results to establish control over people(like....Laputa did)and that is not science for the good of all people. Only the good of all people in other peoples minds.. That is what Swift saw of the 19th century English scientific community and what this video was all about.
I am curious if you even watched this video?
Marami akong natutunan salamat CS Lewis😁
People need something to believe in and they want something to celebrate. It would be wise to remember that absolute power corrupts, and to remain skeptical.
I'm a Muslim & I admire Chesterton & C S Lewis. I always enjoy their writings.
Thanks for the video.
I have Some question, in regard with the vids can y`all tell us what standard could be use to define the good life?
Thanks!
The more ancient the history gets, the more difficult it is to separate myth from fact. Even today, there are many times where what is observed is not what "history" records. Noah's ark and the great flood, several ancient texts speak to a massive flood with few survivors. Other Biblical "fairy tales" such as the four rivers of Eden have been shown by modern evidence (in this case satellite photos) as being more plausible. It is good to "struggle" with your beliefs, it keeps you honest.
Hi Sheirra Ranara, Joven Amplayo, Aisah Bonsalagan and Shane Louise Manginsay. - students from Xavier University - Ateneo de Cagayan
' The Magicians Twin' is precisely correct in its definition.
Science is often prescribed as truth when in reality it is occultism as is magic.
God bless CS LEWIS
I found out about this video from my KHouse weekly NewsLetter. I love C.S. Lewis he was such a brilliant, kind man. I saw a documentary about him once that showed he actually wrote and married one of his American fans. She already had a son as well. I cannot wait to read The ScrewTape Letters, and the Abolition of Man. Thanks for making this video, it was really nice.
Yes it is certainly true that science is far more convincing to people than it ought to be.
I watch this video for educational purpose only and it's so very interesting on how the science work in our universe.
Add to it the COVID outbreak and the debate both by scientists and laypeople on how to deal with it falls into this same category as well.
I saw something on another site that I thought Lewis would like. People who say that only truth comes from scientific imperatives. The problem with that is that his statement is NOT a scientific imperative, it is a presupposition and therefore is self refuting, as most atheists and relativistic morality are all self refuting.
It is not just the religious that have a problem with scientism (or science as a religion). Ayn Rand makes an oblique reference in Atlas Shrugged, Aldeus Huxley make the argument in his Dis-Utopian novel Brave New World and in its non-fiction counterpart, Brave New World Revisited. It is also the "science" behind George Orwell's Dis-Utopia 1984.
Science is by its definition descriptive, not prescriptive. Get your indicatives from science. Get your imperatives from theology and philosophy.
Science is not descriptive of everything though. That's scientism. It is not even the best descriptive method for some things.
I loved to read science fiction growing up, particularly the "Foundation Trilogy" by Isaac Asimov, It was long ago that I read that, but I seem to recall that by the end of the series Science was the religion....later stumbled upon C. S. Lewis'"Out of The Silent Planet", and from there began reading other works of his.
Excellent piece thank you for it. Thought provoking.
On the theme of sin co-existing with technology read "Devil in the White City" which is about the Chicago World's Fair of 1893 and the serial killer Dr. Holmes who walked the streets. Excellent book.
Really enjoyed this and it was very thought provoking. Science is not infallible!
“Trust ‘THE Science’; imagine any other subject treated that way: Trust the History, Trust the Philosophy, Trust the Grammar, which, ironically are what we need to investigate.
Thank you for your support and help to everyone of us have a oportunity to think more deeply about everything for this windows to our refletions and direction to consider the single and supernatural primary, ending and eternal conditions to everything stay under ONE WHO tell to us something about everything... God bless you... heber zenun
Hello I watch this because of our video presnetation of STS
"That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis and, though non-believer, H.G. Wells' "The Island of Dr. Moreau" give some idea of what unbalanced researchers can become.
This is truely amazing .
Overall,,, nice metaphor and smooth explaination..
Anybody noticed at 23:13 he said "Rise of the new Spe?" Did he mean species?
Excellent video; thanks for posting!
And here we are in 2021 with all the old errors flooding back with a vengeance.
What did you guys find most interesting in this documentary and why?
How they kept trying to say that science is a religion because people trust science and scientists.
shoutout to BSED-ENG 2 doing their STS
it’s me, Ven!
The focus of this video is on science and scientism, so it can't cover everything. But I agree with you that religion can be (and has been) abused just like science has been. The original C.S. Lewis shared the same view, and wrote against the idea of theocracy. I'd say that most people today (including religious people) understand that religion can be abused. There is less recognition about the abuses of science.
Well there ya go. I have never studied Lewis but I could certainly see the correlation between science and magic. It's all in the symbols.
Heyy is there anyone knows whats the exactly answer in STS? i know the answer already..pm is the🔐
Freudism= science fueled gullibility, Said Lewis @11.01
Tower of Babel all over again. The people in Babel wanted to be God by their ingenuity and God brought them down.
There was no tower of babel, it's fiction. It is a paranoid fantasy of hubris leading you astray. Objection to "scientism" is mere terror of technology and the future and is promulgated by Luddites.
And you actually think the Tower of Babel exists? Tell me if you've actually seen it for yourself. You're no better than the gullible people of Scientism described in this video. All religion in general is just horseshit and shouldn't be taken seriously.
It's been cyclical all throughout history. Man always wants to be God, until he is able to clearly be shown, only God is God. Unfortunately, most never give up on the replacement of God with their own selfish desires.
Israel was almost destroyed time after time for the same reason. Only a remnant remained each time.
Yeah like god even exist
A very good post but omits two other worldviews that are important in this modern age. The first is the worldview of the agnostic, the one who refuses to affirm a position of faith in either the existence or non-existence of any deity. The second is the worldview of the anti-theist; the person whose view has an avowed antipathy to any deistic or theistic assertion or religion.
You kind of make the point for us. Science can be like religion. Trouble is, it seems to need pointing out, because many people don't seem to see this.
does anyone know what the music in the background of this video is? I really like it.
jytogatewood piano
I remember before I discovered the point of Lewis, there was Jonathan Swift
Good point. But just to be clear, that part of the video was a verbatim quote from a Freudian psychiatrist of the time period. It was an example of the type of reasoning that C.S. Lewis found fallacious.
I want to provide subtitles for this video. Can it be done? I want people who don't speak English to have access to C.S. Lewis' ideas
Mihai Leonte are you still working on it?
"Clearly an organism with intelligence is more likely to survive than the same organism with none. " And yet that assertion is itself a product of a mind developed via evolution. You don't see the circularity?
Oh wow, this put my thoughts that were scattered in my mind into one big picture. It all connects, science is used to make our belief in God less.
Listen to beyond what he said, the people, who are these people? Look into who funds the people, follow the money, the people funding are still the same people as before.
God Bless and don't give up faith.
Same...our teacher also asked us to watch this for our STS assignment
'Scientist' is just a word, it's not a collective of people. You cannot poll all scientists like they always claim, there isn't a list of all scientists.
Fascinating, how acurately C.S. Lewis predicted the time we live in...
Differentiate the scientiesm and magic? Thank you x
Shoutout sa mga kaklase ko sa SLU Baguio wohooo! Shoutout rin kay sir Balangay owrayt! 🥳🥳🥳
The genius of Lewis is made known by those who critique his logic with silliness.
+jonesgerard except that he seems to have feared science more than understood it.
My goodness God help us
The man had some foresight
Watching - June 2020
That line "Fill her up" got me
when c.s. lewis said that macdonald baptized his imagination it makes me think that baptism is a good thing. the accuracy of his writing with regards to future moods and global presuppositions is not accounted for using scientific explanations.
A cake for Darwin. That 'takes the cake'. Reminds me of people offering food to the gods in pagan cultures. "Happy Birthday, Darwin". That's funny.
It is very similar to the Mango Cults in China that they believed were some divine healing fruit brought by Chairman Mao.
CS was very astute. There is a huge danger from the over respect of science so called!
the error shared by both religious and secular thought is that thinkers on both sides sometimes assume that they can't be wrong, or that reality must be interpreted according to their beliefs. this is the root of all ethical atrocities performed in the name of either science or religion: a point beyond which facts are less important than personal interpretations of reality.
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CS Lewis wrote about it ….40yrs later it EXISTS
Do you agree with the quote: "The future belongs to science." -J. Nehru?
Can anyone answer this question for the future students looking for the answer to this❤
there is a reason why they call out scientism and not science itself. scientism would be a religion, it is a worldview, an ideology. relegion itself is loosely defined and it is debated what its true definition is. also, they use science from a century ago in, what i think is, an attempt to show how science is not impervious to criticism. science is forever being reformed, they thought a hundred years ago that they knew alot of things for sure.
It's one of the variations of "Modern Drama Strings" by DiamondSounds, a Royalty Free piece available at Pond5.com.
I came here for STS assignment i left with my mind blown
Is anyone else watching this for a PSYC class if so can we help eachother
Probably i'm not the only one here that is need to watch this documentary for STS. Hahaha
"For, the statement that only science can lead to truth is not itself deduced from science. It is not a scientific statement but rather a statement about science, that is, it is a metascientific statement. Therefore, if scientism’s basic principle is true, the statement expressing scientism must be false. Scientism refutes itself. Hence it is incoherent." - Dr. John Lennox
Yes