Voron Printers: are they true farm printers or capable hobby printers?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In this video we are going to discuss a little on the Voron printers and what to watch out when considering a build when rigging up a 3d printer farm.
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warning: all references are made to the 2.4 "top of the line"
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Great video, and hits a lot of key points
Vorons are not and never were meant to be a Commercial off the shelf machine, Its meant for hobbyists who enjoy the building part of the 3dp hobby as much or if not more than the printing aspect. While there are those that run vorons quite heavily for production (the team that do PIF for example) it was never meant to be a mass produced print farm machine.
I myself have machines with several thousand hours of print time, and they are great workhorse machines...IF you are capable of spending the time to tweak and tune, as well as maintain a machine you have to build yourself. Which, when occupied with running a print farm, many do not.
For hobbies and DIY use cases, its great, but when its machine 1 of 100 in a print farm...there are other options that scale better, both in cost, as well as maintenance and support.
Cheers
Hi Nero! Huge fan of your livestreams, i learn a lot from your insights. I agree 100% on what you say and i acknowledge the that they are great machines also for making parts, even if they require superior knowledge in 3d printing and above average time to build. Keep up your amazing work!
You hit the nail on the head Nero
Nero what other options would you recommend for a print farm in 2023? This topic would make an awesome video by the way. Love your channel.
Do you think that they are as good as the bambulab printers? Like, for someone like you or me who enjoys building them (talking about speed, print quality, reliability and long term performance)
You elaborated the most important topics/downsides of using a DIY printer (doesn’t matter if Voron or others) for business purpose -well done!
Precisely. DIY printers are a hobby in itself. If you need a tool to do a job, buy that tool and amortize the costs.
Hi Albert! I appreciate your feedback, keep it up with those insane speeds!
@@mr_voron it is an honor to see you around! Your comment sums up the whole topic perfectly.
@@3DPrintingForMoney thanks mate!
@@3DPrintingForMoney don't forget to check all the zip ties on your prusa, especially the linear rod and other vital moving components that are only tied with a zip tie hahaha
My 2.4 kit from formbot cost me $950 canadian and took 1 week to arrive via DHL ( $1,599.99 CAD for Prusa mk3+) & it prints like a dream. Quiet, fast and no maintenance for 6 months now. Abs costs $24 a spool for abs+ here. If you don't need it enclosed; simple just open the doors? You can easily remove the panels or not even buy the panels & use one of the many mods for better cooling for pla. ERCF multi material mod costs like $100 and you can have it change spools for you automatically when it runs out loading up to 9 spools. It may not be the best business oriented machine but most of the cons you mentioned are fixed pretty easily.
Did you print your own parts or order them from somewhere? I am considering ordering a kit but dont feel like printing out the parts myself.
Don't forget most people aren't up spending a week building a kit,
. Also there is no way a 9 ch ERCF costs only $100 with shipping and no assembly required.
This is very encouraging; I made up my mind to build a 3d printer as looking at the Canadian cost for a Prusa I just couldn't justify and I am okay with the time commitment to get it up and running.
@@BrownMInc The LDO kit from Sparta3D was very well done. Many nice touches. Especially the terminated wire harness... that saves a ton of work.
@@Cheetahcubb I can print the parts for you, cost + shipping.
Overall I think this was a good video. I did find one thing that was kind of ridiculous. If you are running a printing business, you are not waiting until you get an order before you start sourcing a machine. So the concept that customers will be waiting 8 weeks for you to get a printer, build it and then print their item is kind of out there. I do agree that a Voron may not be the best option for a farm printer. For that you are looking at the lower cost Ender series. However, for rapid prototyping and design iteration or just a fast one off print, you can't beat a Voron with a stick. Mine prints twice as fast as my Prusa's with as good, or in many cases, better quality.
I think it really depends on 3 crucial points, in order of their importance:
1. What is your use case?
- Do you plan to print a lot of big parts and are focussed on engineering plastics like ABS/ASA/PC/PA/... -> a 350mm Voron Trident/2.4 is a rather affordable machine in this segment, which ranges mostly from 2000-5000$. Sure you could mod the hell out of an Ender 3 to get it done, but this is a whole other story.
- You need soluable supports for complex models? An IDEX printer is the way to go.
- You need PEEK & Co -> get an Addwise/Vision Miner printer.
- You need just simple PLA/PETG prints in huge quantities: a lot of Enders would probably be your most cost effective way to mass produce them (although Vorons easily can produce the same quality around 2-3 times faster, simple ROI calculation in the end).
- TPU? Direct drive strongly recommended
- Rapid prototyping with a lot of iterative design changes -> the speed of any coreXY printer like the v0.1 may be your friend.
Each printer has its unique qualities and should be chosen accordingly.
2. Are you/the team deep down in the technical side of the 3D printing world or just on consumer level? This part is mostly about maintanance and support (I'm btw a Prusa MK3S owner, but nevertheless consider myself a geeky tech digger)
The Prusa USP is clearly its convenience, just hit and print, and if something fails, just contact the 24/7 support, right?
Well, this is kind of not the whole story. Even though there are great preconfigured slicer profiles, each model still has to be appropriately adjusted to it's specific needs in the slicer anyway, you simply have to get to know your own tricks with time.
The more challenging topic is support. Yes, it is great for starters and easy-to-solve problems, but it's not much more than a standard guide. When things are not so easy to find out, it can become a long hustle which not seldomly results in simply replacing parts yourself. Here again, with time comes knowledge and you will be far faster in repairing your printer yourself, provided you have a good set of spares (which I would recommend anyway for a print farm).
What I would consider a useful support would be actually a technician, who comes around and solves your problem without you having to tinker anything, like many big industrial machine sellers do. This way it wouldn't simply be your problem and you don't have to get into the technical side of the machine. But this whole Prusa support thing is way overcooked in my eyes (and not even talking about Enders at this point) and not needed after a short amount of time.
So yeah, Vorons are in general more complex designs, which takes longer to build and some issues may be harder to repair, but it is not of a big deal as often said. They run reliable once set up properly, the documentation especially for standard configurations is great and in my experience, most issues in day to day printing come anyway from the hotend and extrusion side, which is more or less the same for every printer. Furthermore, there are a lot of good standard profiles for them out there, even Prusaslicer 2.4 has some integrated by now. If you want to max out the performance, you have the option to use Inputshaping, but that's up to you.
3. Selfsourcing vs. preassembled printers? No doubt, selfsourcing is a real pain in the a* and can take a lot of time. Fortunately, there a a lot of great kits out there for Vorons (LDO, FYSETC, Bluerolls, ...) which solves at least this part of the process. The real struggle will be the building time, which can take several days to complete (even a Prusa MK3S kit takes almost a full day).
In contrast to that, Enders, Raise3Ds, Ultimakers, QIDIs, Flashforges, etc. will be ready to go almost directly out of the box. But again, you simply have to know what your time is worth to you. You like spending a few $ more on a printer, to start few days faster? Are you planning on setting up 5 or 25 printers or even change them frequently for newer models? Considering a usage time of more than 2-3 ore more years, is a building time of 2-3 days really relevant? Better knowledge of your machine is maybe a factor? No general right or wrong here I might say.
To sum it up, yeah you definetely can use Vorons in print farms. But this might not necessarily be the right way for your business. If I would be in the position to start a print farm, I would wisely choose my setup mainly according to point 1 and might consider even a mix of several printers. so all my use cases are covered. Nothing more, nothing less. The point with maintenance is for me a bit neglectable tbh, it's almost the same for every printer with a decently developed and approved design, you have to learn it anyway to do it yourself and will be able to do so.
So I want reliability from my printers, but at the same time, if I make my living out of it, I simply have to know my stuff ;) There is no substitute on that
Addwise/vision miner printers are sort of a budget/hobbyist option for PEEK (They can only achieve amorphous printing). They are not ideal to achieve high crystallinity as the chamber temperature is not high enough (you need 250deg or above). A subsequent annealing will be required which industrial printers with high enough chamber temp don’t. And that subsequent annealing will deform the parts. If PEEK is printed with high crystallinity from the start it won’t deform and you can see it will have a solid beige colour. That is what the industrial and medical requirement is. I would never recommend these kind of hobby printers for PEEK printing to anyone if it’s for industrial/medical use case as you can’t get repetitive results.
Printing ASA/ABS/Nylons is not a hard task with an ender style printer. A new hotend and an enclosure and you're good to go. That being said I really like the voron design, looks, and performance. For my use case I just don't see the need for one and dropping $1500+ on a printer because it's ~2x faster than my $200 ender 3 v2 just isn't worth it. If you need a printer that you need rapid prototypes to get the correct dimensions I think the voron would excel at that.
Thank you for saying it, I knew immediately at the start of the video where he was going with it. I recently bought a Voron 2.4 r2 350mm model to accompany my highly modified ender 5 Pro as I needed another highly capable machine that could print even larger parts, I think if your going to run a print farm it should be as versatile as possible if you have room for it. Then again I think everybody is correct in saying it really depends on what you personally are printing in your business, small things, large things, or a mixed bag.
I have been involved in 3d printing for many years and have watching a ton of videoes on the topic. This video was exceptional. Delivered what you you said in the title. Short, sweet and on point. Thanks for the content. If only I could make my comments so good.
I run a 3d printing farm of 18 ender 3 V2s. I was considering purchasing a voron because of its speed and build plate size. Having 18 open spools of filament between 14 different colors can be challenging to keep up with and constantly change because what I sell only takes 4hr to print at 60mms. Space and heat is another issue. With 18 heated beds my garage has become very hot. As well as the power consumption for 18 3d printer. I would personally much rather manage 9 much faster printers than 18 slower. Great video and I appreciate the work you put in to educate us.
Perfect example of “specific applications requires specific machines”. Have you evaluate belt printers or idex systems?
@@taon707 in terms of operating costs, one voron is a better investment than multiple ender 3's (dont know the exact speed ratio). The cost of the machine should easily be refunded since you're spending less time on operating and maintenance. I personally wouldn't build a farm with V0's, because it takes at least a week to properly build and configure one (assuming you have all the parts without)
@@sem8973 Would you build a farm of V2.4s?
@@toddsfinsdotsurf The v1.x/Trident is a beter design for ABS. The Z is fixed so it is much easier to install additional cooling blowing from the sides of the print-head. The bed is at the top of the chamber, so it heats up faster, the Z is managed by lead-screw, much less maintenance than 4 belts, and you do not need the speed on Z you could have with belts. The trident fix the Z wooble issues the 1.8 had.
@@alexdubois6585 Thanks Alex. Soon after I posted this comment I learned about Voron's Trident build. Great advice.
I have 4 switchwires in my farm. Same cost as a prusa and 2.5 times as fast for same quality, ordered parts for a 5th on Wednesday and had it running today. You didnt even think about the switchwire when came to your conclusion about 'the voron line'
Thanks for the input! I’m still trying to figure out what the strong points of each Voron are.
@@toddsfinsdotsurf If you're still deciding. Build a trident.
@@dangerous8333 thanks ya I've got almost everything I need for a Trident now, gonna be using the new Octopus board, 48V steppers!
Thanks for featuring my Voron 2.4 (light green) at 1:17 😁 That was my print for the serial request.
tried to include only the best! ;)
Excelent advice. Thank you.
Good video. I do intend on building a print farm network based on Vorons & RatRigs with a few Enders, and Artillery X2's. However, I also think it is most foolish to bid on a job with equipment one hasn't yet acquired or fully tested and built a proper workflow for. People must understand that it will take more time to test and evaluate any DIY machine than an off-the-shelf product such as an Ender, Prusa, or Artillery X2. People must also understand the more you mod a Ender, the more DIY that machine becomes, thus requiring more testing and evaluation.
However, if one has fully working and tested Voron or RatRig, with proper workflow management installed, I see no reason why those machines couldn't be used in a print-farm network.
Hi Troi! Your considerations are on spot. Before rigging a farm running numbers will save plenty of headaches down the road. I’m sure farms based on ratrig and voron will be a thing, as for every instrument dedicated to a specific job. But they will require above average 3d printing knowledge compared to a ender 3 farm
If you have a product that sells, and your limiting factor is the amount you can pump out. You will very soon run into space issues and being able to maintain a lower cost smaller workspace shouldn’t be understated
The key to any print farm is having sufficient printers of the same or similar model that you don't have to constantly reslice models for each variant. Identify the size model your printing and have sufficient printers to print it repeatedly. Multiple printer versions introduces complications. Keeping similar models keeps costs down because you can have fewer repair parts on hand to fix issues as they arise.
What irked me about the video is you're trying to compare the Voron to other printers. You state the Voron is great for high temp materials because of the enclosure (which isn't required to be added on for lower temp materials) then go on to hype the Prusa and Creality line, neither of which have enclosures. They are not straight comparisons.
Hi Gaanon! Your idea of printer farm is on spot, quite similar to another video i made time ago on managing a printer farm. Similar people think alike ;)
I made a comparison only on cost between a 2.4 kit and a prusa with an example of production output for the same budget. I don’t really hype creality printers, after years of using them, i can state they are sufficient printers for getting started, but left stock they need a high degree of maintenance if continuously printing.
Every situation demands particular machinery, hard to fit for all and make it a ultimate machine
Coming from someone who does print for my personal business, I can say that a Voron printer is a nice addition. It's default printing speed and acceleration settings are about twice as fast as most consumer printers. I just built a 1.8 and it is quickly becoming my go to work horse to substitute my Ender 5 workload and eventually replace it. I did buy a Flashforge Creator Max 2 to print the parts and now thr FF is part of my small print farm. Do I think Vorons are a viable for print farms? Yes but I would plan on building a new machine perhaps every 6 months and slowly replace less capable machines and not plan to build a lot at once. I also sourced all own parts. The ABS experience on a Voron is amazing. They print ABS like it's PLA. That reality sets in when you see the cooling fan running at 30% to help cool the ABS.
Can I ask why you went with a 1.8 rather than a 2.4? Thanks.
@@redone823 It's cheaper and more easier to build than the 2.4. Easier to tune. And I figured that since the hotend is at the top of the build volume, it would have an advantage with chamber temp. The 24v components are also easily accessible without having to flip the printer on its side.
I think you have missed one thing you just said one sentence, the "heavily modified" Enders you have. Maybe take into account the time/resources to modify those ones as well? And compare them to a DIY reliable printer like a Voron one, as well as, comparing other printers from the group: the switchwire or the V1 are great options too, and for small prints, the Zero (0), but overall, interesting opinion 🙌🏽
Hey Dann, appreciate your feedback. 3years ago i changed old machines with enders, and was doing just fine. After some time i started getting specific material requests and in order to maintain same machines and don’t get different ones i modded them. I designed very few pieces (fan duct, led mount, pi mount), and all the rest were available online, so very low thinkering, i extimate less than 5 hours for all designs. Hardware installation was less than a working day for machine. Not much overall. I was planning of making a video on them and how i split my work, just have to find the time between rush orders. I wasn’t comparing my printers to vorons, just stating that everyone has different needs thus different printer requirements
Great video Richard! What I like about this channel is that it's business oriented - 3D printing for money. As a small business owner my first concern is the amount of time I would invest sourcing and building this machine. My time invested would cost more than the machine itself. It seems like a great kit for younger people who have a lot of time and want a fun project to work on, but in a business setting, you need something that can get into production as fast as possible. Maybe it would be more worth it in a services type business. As a product based business I would much rather have 10 6hr printers than 5 3hr printers. Checking on my printers every 3hrs would get old real fast lol. Additionally, a good understanding of model geometry, part orientation and slicer settings can shave down print times in half. Work smarter not harder. But with anything in life, they will be good for some and not for others. Keep up the great videos!
Hi Joe! Who better than you know how things are? Time is never taken into consideration. if I ever decide to get a voron, it would be for very specific tasks. And obviously have it assembled by a contractor (so he learns more about 3D printers and how to maintain them, and frees me up time down the road)
It is always good to hear another point of view vs. the current excitement about Vorons, especially for print farms.
Here's mine: Setting aside the capital costs of the Vorons (which are depreciated over years in many countries), having a faster, more capable print farm that let's you amplify your volume without increasing monthly overhead (man-power, electricity, floor space, etc.) is paramount. This could mean delivering parts faster and/or of higher quality and likely cheaper than a competitor could mean the difference between success or failure. This was one of the reasons I went with Prusa in the first place. The MMU was a game-changer at the time and with that I can do things I could not do with other printers in the price range.
I run a print "farm" via Prusa i3 MK3Ss, they're fantastic, reliable machines, but they're also getting a bit dated. I could look into modding them myself, then I'd lose some/all of the benefits of being in the Prusa ecosystem (Prusa support, community support, standard slicer profiles, etc.) I'm not sure I buy your argument that 2 Prusa's can deliver a part faster than 1 Voron, when the Voron can be built and configured to print 3X+ faster. There is probably some speed gains I could get from my Prusa MK3s, but these gains come at the cost of quality and reliability, and will never be as fast a nicely spec'ed Voron.
Switching to Voron builds would mean total control over the builds now and in the future (Voron is great about upgrade paths and the community is great about supporting modes), faster and (probably) higher quality parts along with a thriving support community to replace the one I'd be losing with Prusa. Thing is, I really like Prusa and their ecosystem. I do like printing (and making money) more than tinkering with the printers. I'd rather tinker with new product designs!
Yesterday (01-Oct-2021) Prusa finally revealed the pricing (blog.prusaprinters.org/the-future-of-manufacturing-by-prusa-research_55993/) of the Prusa XL -- a machine specifically designed for print farms -- at $3K/printer "in large quantities". Suddenly the tables are turned! I could build 2 (or more) Vorons for the price of a single Prusa XL! Time will tell if the Prusa XL is a better Core XY machine than a well-built Voron Trident or V2.4; the XL is said to have a tool-changer, which is encouraging (will likely NOT be part of the $3K+ pricing). But, you know what? The Vorons are available today (if you can source the parts) and the Prusa XL is still in some undisclosed future.
TBD, I'm really glad both organizations exist, I think they're doing a fine job of pushing FDM technology forward in their own ways and pushing one another too.
If you have 2 parts that don’t fit on the voron at the same time, you‘ll have to be mighty fast on your voron to be quicker.
Also, you’re comparing an automated print farm printer to a diy kit.
How do you value your time that you‘ll spend building the voron? That’ll take you a while.
I am beginning a printing business. I also use multiple heavily modified ender 5. They are good work horses at small parts. They can be quite fast and OKAY on reliability. I bought a voron today. My reasons are as follows. It has a large print area. By my calculations should run as much material per hour as both of my enders. For large prints of materials other than pla and petg it will all around be a better platform. One consideration in maintaining it is that it doesn't use lead screws for it's z axis in personal opinion this is the Achilles heel of the ender 5. The voron has a lot of load on z distributed across gt2 belts. I wouldn't build a whole print farm out of them though. At the time of this writing a two trees sapphire pro is 200$ it will require around 150$ in mods to be a really really good printer. So 350$ per unit. With those mods I would expect several 1000ms acceleration and around 15mms jerk. Probably feed rate of 130mms with pretty good quality. ... It would trounce the ender 3 in dollars per hour production. It would trounce the prusa in upfront cost. 5 of them vs one voron would be a no brainier. If I was buying more work horses that's what I would get.
IMHO you are correct about the Voron being in the hobby stage. Even mainline printers like the Prusa and others often get upgrades to make them farm friendly.
Mostly I find all your points right. Just one seems a bit stretched. The fact of being enclosed can't be a limit in any case, if you need to print PLA just open the door panel and cooling will be enough.
"You can't buy this printer" Bruh thats the best part
a Voron can be a perfect farm printer! the only thing are the cables! install can bus and you have a strong workhorse! If you are looking for a printer that offers a large build volume, voron is or can be your workhorse... for smaller volume jobs a prusa or a bambu lab p1 are good choices
In my country I could buy 2 Creality K1s for the price of cheap voron 2.4 kit, and 3 K1s for the price of a Bambu X1C, but right now 3D printing for me is a Hobby, I want to buy 1 K1 and ensamble a Voron 0.2, for me the Voron is more like a project, with the new printers we have available now
I appreciate the perspective. It makes sense to get several tried and true printers vs. the voron. (unless, as you said, you need to print in abs or exotics etc.) Thanks!!!
So really I should start a company selling turnkey / ready to go Voron systems and lease the systems to print farms.....hmmmm
One of the things you said in there about making your customer wait is really kind of irrelevant, if you are taking orders from a customer that will need to be printed on a printer you have not even sourced materials yet or started building, that's kind of bad practice. You can eliminate that issue by simply not doing that and not taking orders that you can't print on your other printers.
I actually think the voronn is one of the best production printers you could buy, because the form factor allows it to be adapted to so many different things andn so many different sizes. If you need to print pla only, you can add Part cooling that is sufficient for it, and take out the enclosure, if you need to do extremely rapid prototyping or want to do some speed printing, you can add external part cooling fans and super high flow hot ends. If you need to print with flexible filaments, . Add proper direct drive setup, if you need this print with extremely high temperature material relocate the electronics, insulate the chamber, and add active heating If you want things to heat up faster or slower, add higher wattages.
The modularity of it, help create a form factor that you can use for a bunch of different printers that are all the same, and allows you to fit them together neatly, add some consistency, and have very high quality with an open source platform. And not having to deal with proprietary parts. You could build a ton of printers by buying the parts in bulk and cut your cost down by several hundred to 1000 dollars each.
The fact that it uses external computation in addition to the controller boards will set up the ability for you to run multiple controller boards or multiple different types of controller boards, be able to add and subtract steppers, use larger or smaller steppers where needed and for different things, you could customize a machine to be either very specialized and do one thing extremely well, or do bunch of different things decently, and you can easily convert one of the printers over to doing something else. With some other types of knowledge you could essentially scale everything up and make much larger printers with larger extrusion and edits to the printed pieces. If you need something exceptionally precise and you need everything to be just perfect, you could get machines CNC parts made with very high tolerance so everything fits together just perfectly. You can choose different filament sizes you could Print with everything from 1.75 mm nozzles all the way down to .1 mm nozzles. It's just adaptable in so many ways. It's for this reason that I think the voron is the perfect production printer. At any given time there may be a different printer that is better for a certain thing but the boron can be adapted to be as good as that printer. And even if you just build one and you buy the highest quality materials and spend $2,000 on it, you're going to get a printer that's worth two to three times that based on the quality. Printers truly capable of printing high-end for production. With enough knowledge you can change in the death every aspect of this printer to meet exactly what you need and with not a whole lot of knowledge just a pretty basic and general knowledge, you can adapt it to do any normal thing you might run into for an average city printer user.
I do think it is the perfect obvious printer and home user printer as well, for a lot of these same reasons but also mainly because of the quality you get for the money, but from a business standpoint it just makes so much sense. With wholesale purchasing and the ability to buy things in bulk, you could likely purchase and build several of these printers for the same cost as just a handful of similarly sized high end professional printers. Now I understand that these are not going to be able to do certain tasks and when you scale up to certain sizes they're not going to work but those are not really relevant here, because we're talking about 3D printers within a certain size range, and use for specific purposes. I think the biggest drawback of the voron is that it is going to need to be built and adapted by the end user, so some people with more money than knowledge may want to just go by and already complete turn key setup. And for them something else may be better but for somebody who is looking to save some money have a very versatile printer be able to print many different types of things, and be able to easily work on their machine and tailor it to what they need, this is it
You can buy preasembled voron 2.4 many places, but does add to the cost
sure does add up quickly!
Check Troodon 2.0 -- Mostly assembled Voron 2.4R2 derivative.
I've read 60% of your book in 2 days. A real compendium of wisdom. BTW I've learned a lot 4 years ago assembling my Atom 2.5 kit not knowing a thing about FDM, and that's because it came with greatly designed assembly instructions. After reading Voron manuals during 2 weeks, roamed through the community and watched several videos I'd like to give a try to a Voron 0.1. I don´t have plenty of space for a farm (Yet.) Keep up the great job, Signore.
Thanks for the feedback Patricio! Let me know if you will pull the trigger on the v0.1. Quite a difference in size from the Atom
@@3DPrintingForMoney There's an interesting analysis of Vorons by Stefan and Thomas Sanladerer. The small voron makes sense for several reasons: printing a single small part is inefficient even in a medium size Prusa or similar . Going faster on a small structure is relatively safer than on a Voron 2.4, less mass to handle high speeds and accelerations. A bunch of small parts could be printed faster on a small footprint. And some kits come with better rails and components than regular Ali kits (I'll go for an LDO kit. But check what happened to Thomas with the black painted screws provided by the Ali kit.) Your book mentions the importance of good quality components that give peace of mind and longer time between changes.
@@Zitropat i appreciate the work of Stefan and Tom. if number-wise it makes sense, from my experience production output is tied to number of extruders divided by the relative machines cost. if a business is based on small parts it is a viable solution untill demand shifts and you need to print bigger parts. You can print big and small on a 2.4, on a 0.1, you can only print small. if you are printing at 8k accelarations on a 0.1, printing at 5k on a voron 2.4 has a minor impact (accelaration=/=speed).
And yes, quality parts are "headache savers" down the road. Low quality parts can be used on printers, but after 3-4months of use you start to see the effects of cutting corners to bring down price.
@@3DPrintingForMoney I understand your point. Because of my current situation (I do have a full time job teaching industrial design.) I´m not considering a farm dedicated to print on demand but, for the production of limited batches of my designs. Off course, since every carefully planned strategy often doesn't survive the 1st contact with reality, what I like of this business is its flexibility.
@@Zitropat you have the right approach Patricio. If the first plan goes south, you can always sell for a decent amount the printer and upgrade to another one. Can’t do the same in other industries
I recommend rat rig v core 3 instead of voron 2.4, bcos i have built both and installing klipper and mainsail os , config file is nightmare on 2.4 ,developers didn't even touch the most important part of build which is klipper firmware, you have to ask in the forum's, rat rig does it in single flash of the raspberry pi. 👍
I run a print farm with prusa and enders. I bought a Voron v0.1 and it's a great printer to put next to my desktop for fast prototyping (I do 3D design service too). I just finished building the voron legacy. It's an open printer so i can use it for the farm to print in PLA, and it only costed me around $500 for the size of an ender 3. So far i can consistently print on 120mm/s with good quality, but again, I've only had it for a couple of days
so your saying 5 ender 3’s is a better deal compared to a voron. it doesn’t make any sense to compare them that way. so for the price of a mclaren you could get 2 dozen honda civics so would you do that? not everyone owns a 3d printing farm & majority could care less about 5 ender 3’s if they’re looking to build themselves a 3d printer.
Comparing apples and oranges. Try doing the video again with the Switchwire vs Prusa.
Great Video! I have been considering printing for money and have been learning with an Ender 3. One thing I have noticed is all the modifications and messing round required, these take time and don't always do what you want. The attraction of a Voron must be as a complete but capable machine rather than spending the time modifying E3s.
Thanks - I think the time it will take to setup a Voron vs an Ender or Prusa is not worth it for production. Running 40 Enders - you don't have time, if a machine is giving issues you have either remove it or replace it, or schedule maintenance for when there is time. You want something ready out the box, at a low price.
Hi Ian, yeah replacing a whole machine at $300 sometimes is less expensive than dismantling stuff. Still, vorons and kits serve a purpose for those who need them and are okay investing their time to repair/fix stuff
My experience is that the complications that arise on a fairly regular basis is what keeps this industry from really taking off. If there was a printer that required little to no intervention, it would be worth plenty! There’s always something that needs adjustment or repair. It’s very frustrating.
Yeah..maintenance and repairs seems to be tied in the core to 3d printers, even the industrial ones. But in the production environment, it is a thing. I have a cnc background (writing iso&gcode line by line for 4axis machines) and also 1million $ machines need maintenance and a lot of work. That is one of the reasons why the industry can charge 300$/h+ for pieces.
there is already, its called a Prusa
They're machines all machines need maintenance and repairs.
@@edstar83 I have no other machine that requires this kind of attention. It’s worse than a kid.
It is hype for the complexity and cost.
You do realize voron can go upto speeds of 500mms to 100mms right vs 1 machine that runs at 50mms if your lucky 100mms and it look like potatoes. Build one voron replaces 5 or more
I'm not sure which way to go is better a self build or production machine. If we're talking pure production than midas well go out and by a duel extruder epslion for 7k. In my thinking there is more time to roi with the voron. However, if I build my own machine there's a degree of understanding the equipment that I just don't have without a self build. Perhaps the production machine breaks down and you spend hours to troubleshoot. Not sure it would offset the time spent building the voron. For me I'm entering this market with several things in mind. Quality vs quantity maybe a key factor for many. For me quality of print including the ability to print alt materials are my main consideration which also require higher temps. Not sure I can get that with a production machine. Still deciding
Voron does have cheaper prusa style designs. So you can still go for voron.
True, using any DIY printer in a business comes with some problems and some advantages. Being DIY you know every single screw of the machine and if something breaks down you know what to do. It also requires an initial investment of tuning and calibrating the machine. Personally I do think you should know your machines 100% if it is your business.
If your products should be made out of ABS I would for sure have a Voron farm. I have a Prusa and 2 Vorons and the Prusa is pretty much collecting dust right now. My V2.4 and V0.1 beats the Prusa in every aspect - however they both required a much bigger time investment to get up and running.
As always, do your research and buy the right tool for the job. Need ABS and want to know your machines? Voron. Need PLA and dont want to know about your machines and you want the option of support to hold your hand if something goes wrong? Go with Prusa!
There are fantastic printers out out now like the Bambulab X1C and p1p. Speed, accuracy and reliability all in relatively affordable price points.
If I was about to start a printing farm I would source my printers and if I have to build them I'm going to build my printers before I start a business so when you say that I think that's kind I don't think you thought that part out
Highly considering getting one of these for my small printing business.. I currently have an ender 3 pro and an ender 3 v2, and while I understand what you are saying about it being not great for scalability considering the price and reliability to assemble, i feel like it will be a great investment that will allow me to save a ton of time, perhaps making it worth being 4-5x the price. I might be wrong on this but I am quite tempted to go ahead and try it out, some other comments here seem to feel the same way as me.
Your Voron vs Prusa comparison is off. A properly built and tuned Voron can easily print over 2x the speed of a Prusa, not to mention you can fit more on the build plate than a Prusa
good to see a clip of my voron doing a speed benchy at 1:15:) that was at 20k Accel
Just trying to present the best works out there!
Here, conveyor belt. Future
Is a voron a farm printer ( shit printer ) or a hobby printer (shit printer)?
Neither, cause they're the best pro sumer printers in the world. Period.
I think a Voron would make a good prototyping printer
Funny vids, i like what u do, of course, it's also all the info i'm curious to know about. Good job, thanks !
Roughly speaking, what would be a decent spending for a decent entry level 3D printer to start maybe getting into a small business would you or anyone else consider ?
Thanks for the feedback! hard question, i suggest the one your budget (and knowledge) allows. scale up from there based on market feedback and production requirements
What is the issue he shows @ 4:09 ?
you can get a kit for any voron shipped overnight and build in one day not 8 weeks lol
Hi make similar video with '' RATRIG and Eva system ''.
don't forget to check all the zip ties on your prusa, especially the linear rod and other vital moving components that are only tied with a zip tie hahaha
Modified Ender 6 would be a great alternative you get coreXY with the 6 design no one has been paying attention to this. The vorons are beast modeachines though
ender 6 are valid printers with the right mods. regardless it will still get less attention vs vorons and standard cartesians being in the midrange price
my ender 6 printing at 100 mms had layer shift at that speed i slowed it down to 80 and it printed fine but when i try to go over 100mms it layer shifts every time
@@3dprintingcave778 did you check your wheels they might be wearing I really want to put linear rails on my ender 6 that would improve this printer for sure
@@BreakingElegance its brand new its had 2 prints done on it
@@3dprintingcave778 makes sure the unit is square and adjust the wheels if needed only because it's new it doesn't mean it did lose its adjustments during shipping
My hobbit neighbor has a V0 print farm
I have ender 3 v2 that I have over 700€ in already. That is including the cost of the printer 300€ when I got it. If I bought it now and knowing what I know now I could get it done with around 560€. But I have bought mobo 2 times because I got E3 mini. Then I wanted dual z so I got E3 turbo. I got creality direct drive, should have gone straight to micro swiss. So basically I am not far from the cost of a 300mm3 ratrig at this point. Print volume/€ is so much better at that point. There would be no way I'd go with 2 or 3 ender over 1 ratrig. Especially because stock ender 3 sucks so bad.
big believer that every printer has its purpose. More expensive printers are more refined and have nicer features. if the ratrig fits better your needs and has a good ROI for you, then sell your 3!
@@3DPrintingForMoney too bad selling the ender is not good roi. Thats how selling used stuff works.
Patience and doing research would avoid all of this. I'm 400 into my E3V2 and it's been a workhorse for the 6 months I've owned it. Half the stuff you listed here you didn't even need. I never bothered with the direct drive. Too much weight on the print head. I'm printing at 150 mm/s without it. All metal extruder, hotend, Capricorn tube, CRtouch for convenience. That's it. Lots of products with diminishing returns I've noticed.
The minute I started realizing I needed something faster I went out and did research before just throwing money at the E3V2.
When I'm done building my voron trident I'll be turning my E3V2 into a switchwire.
@@3DPrintingForMoney I think his comment just implies he doesn't really know what he's doing.
i still don't know how they make it to 500+mm/s is it upgrade of bowden extruder + motors or is it just software setting? (talking about voron...) thanks!
Hi Katsuo! High speeds are a combination of machine and software. For the hardware, a rigid small frame with tiny moving masses allow high accelerations and high average speeds. The main cap is caused by melting capacity of the hotend (reason behind magnum+ or HF hotends.) if the printer goes fast but the hotend can’t keep up with melting plastic, you will get extrusion issues. For the software, klipper in voron case, has equations that precisely calculate motion paths and amount of material extruded. Good motion system+capable hotend (and extruder!)+good software = high speeds
My biggest issue with my Voron V0 is serviceability, one little part comes loose or needs to be replaced and suddenly you're completely disassembling the entire machine.
Yeah Cody, the downside of DIY high performace 3d printers. Kinda like formula 1 cars, if a component breaks, sometimes they just trash the car and make a new one!
The estimation about 2 Prusas being faster than 1 Voron is not always true. While most cartesian printers print around 60mm/s, a Voron is capable of 200-250mm/s. Running the Klipper firmware and better boards come with their benefits. Pressure advance, input shaper and other things, that are making a significant difference in quality at those high speeds. Yes, it takes a lot of time, energy and dedication to build it.
But you can put Klipper on a Prusa Mini for instance and do 150 mm/s maybe even faster, cleanly. There's a guy that was running a mini at 250 mm/s albeit not the best quality in the end but that's why I figured you can do 150. It would seem having two minis running at 150 is better than one voron running at 250 printing two copies. With the minis or whatever you'll have a backup machine in case one goes down also.
I'm not sure of any of this, I'm trying to figure it out because I'm in this very position right now. I want to build a farm so I need to decide what to go with.
Obviously multiple Vorons would be ideal but now you're getting up there in initial investment costs.
2 Prusa i3 mks+ kits cost 1500 USD and 2000 USD assembled, unless you mean clones, in which case you should specify.Cooling vise, it's not impossible to take of the side plates and leave the door open.I just bought a 2.4 for 1036 USD ink shipping and tax so.And the 1.8 I cheaper. Otherwise valid points:)
And when that 1 voron goes down what do you do then?
@@dangerous8333 Since they cost half as much as an assembled Prusa, I obviously have 2 so no problem 😂
My workhorse is the Kingroon KPS3. I dont think there is any printer that can match that little guy for $150.
Interesting video!
You told you're mostly using heavily modified ender fives. Doesn't that also limit scaleability, since it takes some time to modify them? Or is that a relatively short task since you've done it multiple times and know what to do?
Good point Willem. The mods i mounted require about half a day for machine. So if i have to get a couple of more printers for increased print jobs it requires very low effort.
@@3DPrintingForMoney gotcha, thanks for your response!
This sounds more like a biased video because of all the content covered. For people doing 3d printing as a business 24/7 a corona might be expensive but with it comes reliability, speed and quality which is not guaranteed on enders or other printers. The only competition they have is the original Prusa printers but they don't come cheap either
I built a voron 2.4 in less then 5 days my 8 prusa mk3s on the other hand have gone thru multiple motherboards and bed thermistors my lulzbots tax 6 have been very reliable my 2.4 and switch wire have been great machines it’s someone’s skill set I’m a manufacture and design engineer that has been printing materials from stainless to pla the video could use a lot more information
Couple things. I think you may have overlooked the PIF program as examples of people running vorons in a farm type setting. Several of the PIF providers have multiple machines cranking out sets of voron parts constantly. Also, I think if you were to take a farm based approach with voron printers, the V1(Now called Trident) is a more cost effective way to do it. Many people overlook the V1 design as worse, because the V2 has a two in the name. They are separate projects and I believe a V1(Trident) build can be 2/3-3/4 of the price of a V2. Otherwise valid points.
Hi Jeremy! Yeah money wise a Trident could be cheaper. But will be always put in second place by the name (as you stated) and for the less “interesting” motion system. I’m following VERY closely the IDEX system Eddie is developing. Could be a deal maker.
I talked about PIF in another Video on 3dprinting niches, as a way of creating a farm and 💰. But if you run already run a farm, and want to buy a voron, PIF with 8weeks lead time becomes a huge problem if you need immediate fire power especially with holiday peaks
It's interesting that in your calculations in previous video no account is made for the ROI on 3d printers themselves or how long each one takes to build - if you did then a voron printing farm at 2 months and 2.5k per printer would be completely unprofitable for a long time. Would be very interested to see your heavily modified ender 5 farm? :)
Interesting point! Semi-assembled printers as creality and clones can be mounted in a couple of hours, and availability is “day after”. Prusa a little more at 1-2days and depending on the period 1 to 4 weeks lead time for delivery. Voron printers have good ROI for specific markets (abs-asa products), but aren’t turn key. If you have a net profit of 30$ for product, and print one product a a day, in 3 moths the printer is paid off. Many ways to see things, and every piece of equiment has its place
I feel many of the issues you talked about have been solved by the people in the Voron community on Discord. The issues with twisting rails can be resolved by substituting mgn9h rails for one single mgn12h rail, the insufficient cooling has already been overcome by a lot of fan mods available, and the printer is not compulsorily enclosed, you can have it without the acrylic panels. So yeah your video kinda made it sound kinda worse than it is.
I understand your point of the user having to assemble the whole printer but it's a one time thing, and personally I know 3rd party resellers that are working on creating full hight quality kits and even fully built options.
Also have you personally given Voron a try? If not, why not give it a shot? I feel your video will be worth more if you have tried one for yourself
Hi Apoorv! Thank you for your considerations. The printer prints even with issues, i was referencing these issues when someone wants a “perfect printer” but needs to print parts and doesn’t have the time to put on the technician hat and figure out stuff. Fan mods like AB-BN or MANTIS can help with cooling issues, as also removing panels as you sed. But if someone needs to print various projects in different materials, removing and putting back panels every couple of prints is an unnecessary waste of time.
For the LDO 2.4 kits or others making full assembled printers, it will be a great thing, but we are talking of late 2021 at the best. I truly hope in 6 months things will be different (great) but i must address current issues that are sugarcoated (not great)
Who is producing a quality kit?
Hi justin, for now, all kits are hit or miss, with magicstudio.xyz on top of the lot for consistency. LDO might bring massive improvements on decent parts for 2.4, but only rumors from them for now.
@@justindyster7073 After seeing what happened to Thomas Sanladerer with the "black oxide coated" screws corroding on his Ali-Formbot 2.4 some weeks ago I've made a 2 day research asking 2 vendors and kit manufacturers, several forum members exclusively on fasteners, LDO came out as an apparently satisfactory kit. But don´t expect someone offering a Voron kit with stainless steel fasteners and THK linear guides for 650u$d. (That's what a Voron 0.1 LDO kit cost in the US.)
@@Zitropat the black oxide coated screws sanlanderer showed were the ones on his prusa
I’m getting started in running my own production and have two Enders with upgrades. Considering the trouble and cost going into adding another upgraded Ender to the line up, and to save space, Vorons are very attractive options. If I’m willing to put in the money for a faster, more reliable, and consistent machine, are there alternatives to the Voron lineup that can perform comparably?
For responding at your question, ratrig is a valid contender. But i don’t know your current needs, so before investing money you will have to do some homework. When choosing a printer keep in mind ROI and time required for regular maintenance and non ordinary maintenance
look at ratrigs IDEX machine get 2 parts done at the same time as one and you would have the option of adding a second color to 1 print if needed or supports that is water soluble if needed
Great video. Which printer would you recommend for doing high quality small parts (10x5cm). I have the ender 3 v2 and Artillery Genius and I’m not satisfied with the quality produced. I wanna sell and dont be a printer technician. Budget up to 2k €
Hi Darko! I feel you when you say you don’t want to be a printer technician. All printers will require some grade of manteinance. Some more, some less. If you can handle resin, you could figure out a way to get a good resin printer. For many small parts, mSLA printers obliterate fdm. If you have the ROI, you could evaluate a SLS powder printer. Pricey, but quality output is dope (bondtech extruders are made with SLS). Depends mostly on what you need to print
If you can't figure out an Ender 3v2 I don't think I would start spending two grand on a printer.
Wait, hold up...
...Did the fastest speedboat competition not occur or am I missing something here, because I was sure that a decent size benchy being printed out around four minutes or so on corexy/boron style machines?
Just saying
You are correct, but usually who runs 3d printing farms dont sell benchies...Speed in production eviroments not always are related to “the fastest machine”, more to the “fastest ROI per machine” making parts.
i dont understand the point of this video. id say the vast majority of people who build a voron know what the challenge ahead of them and realize what they are getting themselves into and thats half the draw of choosing voron in the first place. for those who dont want that challenge well then they wont ever own a voron simple and beautiful as that
If you're going to run a serious print farm, and really invest in it, anything you have to build yourself is out, in my opinion. I personally believe a CoreXY or any other printer that isn't a "bed slinger" is more correct - the less you have to move the part around, the better. But if you're going to run a serious print farm, it may be a thought to look at what Prusa is doing with their new Pro stuff, that's still being developed. Rack-mounted, CoreXY mechanics, fully controlled from a central point - heck, they even built them into a rack system so if one printer fails, you can pull it out and put another one in while you repair the malfunctioning one. But - of course, you can start with some basic Enders and build your business from there on a shoestring budget.
Honestly they give you commercial capabilities, things like changing many different hot ends and cooling systems. Plus its high performance just like you would see in a industrial machine. A coreXY machine with a open source system is actually perfect for a print farm. you will spend more time debugging stuff on those cheap machines and not be able to print anything that looks decent consistently in any material. You can make a voron 2.4 for like 700$ total cheaper then a prusa also. and you can make a voron 0.1 for like 400$. you have less problems to deal with with these systems honestly because they use better parts and they fix allot of issues with there advanced tech. Having a army of cheap machines means your company can only make cheap products... If you have 100 machines you will have at least 5 employees anyways to help keep them up. I spent more time dealing with issues w my ender 5 plus to know that cheap isnt good. Honestly I think you can devaluate your entire use case with one criteria time is money. You spend more time trying to level and tune you cheap PLA filament on something that cant cool and cant extrude precise your product will look like a noob made it. Kinematic bed leveling saves time. Can you do that on a cheap machine no lol.... Not to mention I think the down time would be less on something where you can 3d print almost all the parts for it instead of ordering it.
I believe your analysis for using VORON printers in a production, farm environment is sound. Equipment selection should be based on your business case.
The V2.4 might possibly be the most advanced, innovative printer on the market, labeling it more a "prosumer" for the advanced hobbyist, and professional design, prototyping shop that needs to take advantage of the new generation of filaments. A growth step for Prusa owners who have outgrown their machines. The V2.4 is more advanced than nearly all of the mainstay 3D printers in the professional market (Chinese printers do not count). IT IS NOT a printer for the Chinese printer crowd unless they have advanced building experiences and/or have a professional 3D printing technical background. In a farm or service bureau running 24/7 they require onsite technical support staff with knowledge specific to these printers. There are no "service contracts" for VORON's unlike Ultimaker and Raise3D for example, though ironically these printers use dated designs and are actually easier to maintain..
This raises another important point. A farm of cheap entry-level, outdated bedslinger consumer Chinese printers is not appropriate for a professional business either. Remember, out of the box, they will not output an equivalent professional print without important modifications. The Prusa MK3s is now the only low cost printer that's widely accepted in the professional world.
Many professional clients will turn away from a business using cheap Chinese printers because they know the quality with not be the best, and it's likely that the owners are/were hobbyists with limited knowledge and professional, technical 3D printing experience. It's like so many family owned landscaping companies who cut your grass, they are amateur's, might do an okay job, but you can tell the difference when compared side by side with a professional company.
LOL, do you know the mk3s has no better print accuracy than an ender 3. ?
Lmao...
How's that Kool-Aid taste.
@@dangerous8333 same print accuracy, as long as they are tuned properly, then print quality is the same
You would pull appart the action of walking as a pain to someone who enjoys walking.
Rambling man rambling
If you just keep on stacking like... 29 Enders VS 9 Vorons you will pay more in the longer run for Ender.
Imagine the bill you will need to pay for getting a space for 29 Enders.?
On top of that you will need to pay for the electricity for 29 3d printers??
After sometime 3d printers will break and rather fix 9 than 29, how about heat issue of 29 3d printers. :-)
I have never seen anyone clain Voron to be "the ultimate production printers"...? These are brilliant enthusiast machines, and if you want to print for money, and have only one machine, I suggest you dont do it. Your comments make mno sense....
I think vorons and corexy have dimentional stability problems.. I mean the squareness of X Y Z are maintain by belts which will expand individually.. and loose squareness. unlike a cartesian printer squareness is fixed by metal screws.. basically calibrate then burn the calibration in firmware and forget about it forever as long as you dont move those axes they will always be square.. imagine 2 fitting parts you print today and you reprint one part a month or year later.. will they fit the original as good as before..
When there are two 3D printing shops on your street, and a customer comes in wanting to print something in ABS and receive as soon as possible. You can (maybe) do it with 60mm/s and finish it in 5 hours, while the store next door that has a Voron can actually finish it in less than an hour with perfect quality and using ABS per the requirement. Do you think that the customer will be ready to pay a premium to your next door neighbor or will he cheap out and wait for eternity with you can not even get his required ABS parts? ... As a business, don't stick your head in the sand. If you see an opportunity to "cheaply" get a very fast and a very capable (in terms of materials) printer added to your arsenal of capabilities - it would be silly to just shrug it off.
Hi Evgeny! well, you made a nice example, a little borderline. It would be fantastic to do a full analisys of it with cost/profits etc but making it short, if you have customers requiring pieces the incoming hour, i’m sure you will charge top dollar for your time and not the material (1 hour print will be under 50grams for sure). But still, one can create a “deliver next day” business, running extremely tuned machines with subsequent high rates. In the video i just warned future owners to account for time invested in the build and tuning and to undestand if “x” machine is suitable for their “y” need
Your example isn't even realistic.
Somebody that would need a custom part like you describe wouldn't need in an hour most likely. If they did it would be rare enough to not be an issue. What if every time somebody went to the faster place half there machines weren't working?
There are lots of variables to consider here.
Customers waiting while you build a printer. If you take orders before you have a printer, you are very very dishonest. Easy isn't worth anything. You're going to make pennys printing PLA. If you can't print engineering materials, your time might be better spent delivering pizza.
the truth: voron is the new reprap, prusa is now established enough to ask for too much money. if an open source cr-30 hits I think voron won't be what hobby builders are after.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. CR-30 is based on an open-source machine...
@@Anyone700 clearly reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, else point me to the BOM of the cr-30 or kits ty
Gave thumb down. There's too many things there that don't make any sense. Like near end statement that was something like "your customers won't wait two months for you to complete machine". Like wth? If you have actual business, how Voron could be the only machine? Zero sense in the statement. Well, trying to make money in conventional 3d printing itself is a waste of efforts imo. They're everywhere these days.
#ender54lyfe
Hahaha yeah, until they break😭
Will make a video on why time ago i chose ender5, probably when i’m going to sell all the lot and make a shift to other printers. WIP
Voron is not the best for 3d printing, Its meant for the best 3d printers (the people behind it)
Some valid points, but you should consider building one. In short, most of the issues mentioned, can easly be solved with a mod.
No they can not. Issue 6 in a lot of people has yet to be solved even after trying different extruders and toolheads. For the price, the Voron 2.4 is a waste of money IMO. However the switchwire and the 0.1 (for smaller parts) are a much better value for the money without the headaches of the 2.4.
@@TheNature101 The issue 6.... Most people don't have it. That's the problem with DIY, you don't follow the sourcing guide and you cheap on something, you run into a problem.
@@KubaAirs Actually looking at all the crappy Voron 2.4 prints on youtube, I would say "most" people have it. However it is difficult for cult members to admit they spend $1500-$2000 for a plastic functional parts printers that produces crappy prints, when they could have spend 1/4 of that for a Sapphire Plus CoreXY printer with full metal functioning parts, that produces better prints.
@@TheNature101 There are over 2000 2.4 now.... You're totally missing the point of something like Voron. What makes you think that cnc parts makes better printers? How about Prusa, Annex k2/k3, HEVORT and most of the good DYI printers? 3d printing is not cnc machining and the fast movements of the toolhead must dissipate somewhere. Make it too stiff and it will endup in the toolhead itself, that's why we measure resonance. Voron and similar printers are for somebody who prints day and night. For someone who likes to play with his printer. If you're only printing webcam covers for your grandparents, every printer will do. When you're building Voron, you're spending money on high quality parts, your whole printer costs same amount of money as a set of high quality MGN rails... You can't expect much from that, can you? Try to update your printer with higher quality parts, you will endup at the similar price level that of a voron.. Don't forget that Voron is not a product. It's a Do it Yourself project. That's where a lot of people fail by buying kits which basically cheap on parts
@@TheNature101 I even went that far and looked at CNC Kitche's review of your mentioned printer... I think there's nothing to add to that. You get what you pay for
comparing vorons to enders lol
Honestly I have no idea why anyone buys Enders over Qidi's. Much much less reliable over their given build volume, they do not hold level a fraction as well, and they need to be modded to work good. You would be better served by a team of qidis than a team of Enders. You also harped on issues that also plague enders, just try using the entire build volume of an ender reliably. Three words: not, gonna, happen. Would have rather you talked more about the numbers which you know better and less about the mechanics
Love my E3V2. Love the glass bed. Everything sticks no problem. My Glassman looks brand new after 6 months. Mine's been pumping out perfect prototypes oh man for 6 months now. First printer and only thing I upgraded was all metal extruder, metal hotend and CRtouch. Jyers firmware. Using the CRtouch bed leveling mesh I can use the whole printing volume perfectly. I also print at 150 mm/s.
I like the Qidi's too. Was looking at the x-plus but might build a trident instead.
Sorry guys the voron is junk, so many short comings ...just but an Ender or Bambu, value your time better. I have a voron and I hate it
Take their business elsewhere? Sounds like you should offer prints/products not available anywhere else lol
two prusa for 1300?! are you drunk bro?😂😂😂
Well if you do the math...
Voron2.4 Kit (1300$)
Shipping (265$)
Pif parts (120$)
Let’s pretend your lucky and don’t pay import duties and taxes, you are looking at 1700$ + tools
Prusa 750*2=1500$
shipping=100$
Same thing for tax/duties, it’s 1600$
So yeah, give or take you can buy 2 prusa for one 2.4. 🤷🏼♂️
shipping is not that much
@@3DPrintingForMoney Voron kit = under $1000 canadian shipped & arrives in 1-2 weeks. Prusa mk3+ = $1599 CAD
@@andonguyen7970 without the abs parts and with the v6... and who knows what quality of rails and so on...
@@artfess V6 will do fine plenty of ppl use v6. If you want to upgrade who's stopping you? Put a box on your current printer and print the parts yourself then, costs 2-3 spools of $24 abs( both colors). Kits from formbot are good enough many of voron community use this kit and no issues from mine running 6 months + now. Rails run fine and were smooth. Kits have raised in price by now I see formbot is selling for 1.2k canadian free shipping. This isn't the best choice for a 3d printing bussines but your not buying 2x prusa mk3's in canada for under $1400:
Prusa Research Original Prusa i3 MK3S+ 3D Printer (Assembled)
$1,629.99.It's $1,149.99 if you build it yourself and your getting a cartesian printer with no enclosure.
So... you make a video about Voron but never actually built one or use one. You have no idea the time it takes to source and build it. You don't have one so you have no experience with Voron yet make video about it?!?!?
I was expecting a similar comment. Kinda proves the point of the video. I tough the voron where gret printers, but more i read and collected information, more i discovered that these printers require a massive investment of time. Just making some math, if you get paid 50$/h and you take 50hours to build and tune the printer, you are looking at a 2500$ investment, then add the printer cost. I have a local friend that went trough a voron build. Inquiring on the build and sharing my toughs stated in the video his reasonsing where something along “yeah, it has been a fun experience, but you really need to commit to it. I would not advise a 3d printing business to have a voron just because the community says so”.
Again..just business perspective of things, not hobbist having fun
Good points both sides. I agree, a business has to use more critical viewpoints and criteria when evaluating an option, and the time invested to assemble and tune isn't negligible. That said, just like with enders, the second one would be much faster to get running, and each subsequent machine will take less time and energy. Outside of crimping, I think a person could reasonably get assembly down to several hours, assuming printed parts are sourced. That first one IS a beast though.
@@3DPrintingForMoney If it takes you 50 hours to put together a kit with a manual. You don't deserve $50 p/hr
Need to work on your English bro, I can barely understand you sometimes.