The problem with legalizing euthanasia, without free medical care, is that even for a terminally ill patients, there is the possibility is that they are doing it not because the reached the end of the road, but they want to spare their family the healthcare cost of keeping them alive.
You point utterly fails to apply in societies where the family does not financially suffer from end-of-life care. Which are most western nations, public health insurance takes care of it.
@@mikec8027 Its not fully irrelevant though. Even in the nations where family does not have to shoulder all or at least some part of the weight of their elders care, one can still assume inheritance deliberations. Or costs not directly related to healthcare like housing and personal consumption. It is fair to assume there can be situations where an elder person might feel pressure to go for euthanasia even if they are not fully on board. But I say the souvereignity right over ones own life is more important than protection from theoretical pressures. Best thing that can be done is reducing motive for those pressures, i.e. socializing the burdens for family. So they dont have added motive to pressure somebody.
@@mischevious Which nation, which system are you talking of? Or are you speaking in general as in "public healthcare free at the point of service does also have to be paid for somehow" ? That meme is a well kown truism and has been used for decades. Of course no doctor, nurse or pharmaceuticalmanufacturer works for free. But was and still is rather silly. Since socialized healthcare systems have been shown over and over to archieve better health and care outcomes, producing lower management overheadcosts than private ones. Even in mixed systems like germany, where both concepts are allowed in parallel, the private ones take more money in and deliver worse consumer outcomes once levelized. Which should be obvious since the profit-driven middleman is missing in public systems.
I live in a state with a death with dignity law. My close friend had a terminal progressive brain/neurological disorder that would render her both mentally and physically incapable of taking care of herself. The disease would become more painful as it progressed and she was already in terrible pain. Even with that scenario, she was NOT able to find 2 doctors that would sign the paperwork for euthanasia. In fact, she couldn’t find any state that would allow her physician assisted suicide. She flew to Switzerland to access the system there which allowed her to make that decision for herself. Before she left she wrote me a 5 page letter explaining her choice and sharing her thoughts with me. I cannot blame her for her choice. I wish the laws were a bit more flexible so she wouldn’t have to take that step without a friend or family member to be with her at the end of her life.
So only people with whom passport and money can die with dignity just like if abortion is illegal, only wealthy people that can travel will be able to have them.
There are other ways. You can’t be force fed, nor forced to take your meds nor to drink water. You can possibly find a doc to Euthenize you but the meds for it are not covered by Medicare and are very expensive. That’s why you find elders jumping off cliffs and just try to find a car rental agency that will rent to elders. We have an odd attitude about death in this country. Yes, we’ll euthenize old Toby our beloved Golden Shepherd to put him out of his misery but no way will we support Mom or dad if they want to escape their misery.
It’s very sad that this 23-year-old young woman feel like she couldn’t go on. The problem I have with this concept is in the United States where really profit driven and I’m afraid some tragedies would occur in the name of someone getting paid
Even in the public sector, if you have people who's job is to assist suicide, then there's incentive sturcture for it to keep happening and a class of people where assiting suicide will just be another day at the office.
This is the society that the global elite ruling class want. Naturally, progressives will embrace this as muh free choice while demanding forced vaccinations.
Whenever you mention the persons age in this question and being opposed to the suicide you're implying that you would be OK with it if the person was older. Maybe its the general worship of youth and the hatred of old people in this society. I'm so glad I wasn't trained to hate old people like so many of a certain age seem to. Sounding more like Logan's Run every time I see one of these debates.
It is sad when an 80 something year old person feels they can no longer gone in an excruciating life. It is very sad when a €23 person feels the same. Simply because the younger person had about 50 or 60 more potential years of life. There is a cult of youth. That does not change what I said
Having known someone who actually worked as a euthanasia provider in Switzerland, it bears saying that it is a long and regulated process. From signing up to it to the administration of the euthanasia drug it takes maybe a year, if not more, and the person undergoes many consultations during that period etc. This can also be psychologically difficult for those administering the process as they also form a personal relationship to the client, by necessity.
This is INSANE. Depression can be overcome . This person was not thinking clearly in a depressed state . It’s a freeze state and comes from a trauma . I suffered my whole life until I found rewiring of the brain . Instead of offering her death , offer her HOPE and recovery 😡
My Uncle went through that process in Switzerland after he developed ALS. I was glad he had the option. You make a good point about the physicians involved. Doctors have a hard time losing patients in general, let alone being the ones that deliberately end their lives.
@@mariastefanie5835 This is psychotic shame on Krystal and Kyle supporting this I’ve survived sexual trauma, a car accident, severe bullying, & racism. Why can’t she go to therapy and get help by professionals? This is insane, the liberals aren’t the left let’s make that separation from here on out.
@@mariastefanie5835 with all due respect for what you’ve been through, what makes you think that that wasn’t offered to her as well? According to Krystal, she had tried everything that was available. Nobody offered her death. What the law does is allow people to do so, when their pain is so unbearable that there are no existing therapeutic ways to ease it. They don’t go looking for people to offer that option to. People search it out on their own. Plus, people can commit suicide on their own. They do so all the time in this country with a gun. Suicide is the #1 type of deadly shooting in this country. Its not mass shootings, school shootings, or even police shootings. It’s suicide.
It's not that simple. Even when euthanasia is illegal, it happens by people breaking the law. That's how it should be: illegal and available, precisely to avoid this ridiculous situation of a healthy 23 year old killing herself with state sanction. The wink and the nod method is the correct method.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 who in the hell are you to tell a 23-year-old that is suffering immensely like this woman was that it's ridiculous for her to consider suicide? You're not the one doing the suffering, she is! You are in no position to tell her that she must continue suffering.
@@jamessantell6707 She doesn't have to continue suffering. She can commit suicide by herself, illegally, or with illegal help from her friends. You can't legalize this situation.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 You haven't provided a good reason why it shouldn't be legalized. Sure, healthy people may kill themselves as a result but how many unhealthy people are needlessly suffering right now? Don't they deserve peace if all other options are exhausted? And this poor woman was suffering. There are people that are physically healthy that are mentally unhealthy, and that's important to consider, too. We don't have the knowledge to determine what she should have done, nor do we have the right.
As someone who’s suffers from cycles of severe depression and had a parent committed suicide, I agree. I used to resent my biological father for leaving us, but now I understand. I can’t bring myself to do it myself because leaving family behind is HORRIBLE, but if my brother or mother came to me and told me they needed to let go (whether it me cancer or mental illness) and said goodbye, I wouldn’t resent them. I’d understand. I’d let them pass before their life story became a tragedy
@@Jalex92 you’re not alone. There’s so much going off and all of life’s wonders fade away as the days go by. The taste of food becomes subtle. “Happiness” synapses start to weaken. Traveling becomes a burden. Every day that we awaken goes from a gift to a curse. But just know that this is still something special, the probability of us being alive at this given time is one in trillions. Try to raw dog life, it’ll end in a very short amount of time. Embrace the suck.
I think that’s a little reckless and naive that a lot of people attempt suicide and a lot of them multiple times and actually turn their life around so are we letting people give in to temporary downs ?? I think there should be a age limit and also all other options have been tried and in rational time table.
Don't know that's really true. I wanted to die all last year. I don't anymore. 23 year olds are very volatile. Further, there were likely a LOT of people who were hurt by her death. Murder hurts everyone around the person who dies. Suicide hurts many people very badly, not just the one who died.
@@Jalex92 Most people don't understand what the life trajectory can look like for someone with severe mental illness. Your opinion is controversial but I have to agree given what I'm experiencing in my own life. I live with severe bipolar disorder that has only gotten worse with time, and no amount of medication has made a substantial difference. I think if legal assisted suicide was more common, it would lead to less people doing it in a spur of the moment decision, all alone with nobody to talk to because they know the subject is simply unapproachable.
I'm from Belgium and this case was a big story because of the reason of her choice for euthenasia, the terror attacks. She lost a lot of her friends (they were going on a senior year trip to Italy) and had severe anxiety attacks, depressions and paranoia. To legally get euthanasia in Belgium you must get the green light of not only two specialists (in this case psychologists) and there decisions must be OK'ed by a board, who's members are all specialist in the field (proffessors, docters, social workers, etc.). The decisions isn't taking willy nilly and only as a last resort. When she finally got the green light and a date, she took the time to say goodbye to all her loved ones and take a holiday to Italy as to finally end that chapter. It was sheduled 2 days before the anniversary of the terror attacks which was important for her as she didn't wanted to relive it again. Unfortunatly some anonymous complaint made that impossible as authorities had to revisite the case and make sure that everything was done legally and every other option was exhausted before the euthanasia could be done. This took 6 months, time which became hell for her. Instead of a sereen end with dignity and peace, it became a drawn-out torture of uncertainty which thankfully ended in a good way for her. All because of some douche who cannot accept that someone wants to end her life and that a society doesn't want to let her do it in a bad way.
After your description it looks even more horrific than without it. Psychiatrists, fucking board of some bureaucrats said to the person they supposed to help "we cant do anything, so go kill yourself, but say bye to your mom first", quite literally.
It didn't end in a good way. If she wanted to commit suicide for real, she could easily do it with an enormous dose of opiates, driving out in the woods, and taking them all away from other people. There is no reason to make this process legal. When euthanasia is necessary, people should break the law against it.
@@Williamtolduso The real kicker is that I sent her to hell because she committed a sin that I cannot forgive. And I will give a bonus point for the person that made the complaint because that person enforced my bible rules.
I'm with Kyle on this one. I think believing that depression is eternal is an incredibly defeatist and sad attitude. I understand it's hard to live under those circumstances but to allow something irreversible like this to happen is inhumane and shows a lack of respect for life.
@@Cettywise Nobody can force them. A person is free to end their life whenever they want unless they're in some kind of constant lockdown and supervision.
This is hard. As someone who's suffered from a number of psychological issues, and did attempt self termination in the past, it's kind of difficult for me to either condemn or condone this. I've had good things happen to me since that time that I would've missed out on. I'm not 'cured', I still have issues, but I'm much better at coping with them, avoiding triggers, and dealing with the bad times. On the one hand, It's hard for me to accept that a 23 year old couldn't take one more step forward to see if they could find just a tiny sliver of light at the end of the tunnel. What if? Just one more minute, one more hour, one more day...maybe things can be different. On the other hand, it's cruel to try to force someone to carry on while enduring that kind of suffering. If I would've had to deal with something like that, I seriously doubt I'd still be here.
This is Belgium, my guess is they had an extensive process to try and find a solution, but they never did. After all it all started in 2016. Their are always some people who can't recover from something. We only need to have 1 person in history to give a law a reason to exist I guess. I hope you are able to keep improving your situation.
We just need a massive investment in mental health. The problem is a lot economic systems in our world don't care for mental health except for the loss of a worker. There is no profit in it.
@@kellen5545 this is a US problem, if you want to look at it purely from a capitalism sense not a moral one. Also an other US problem is just focused to much on the short term. The benefit to society is that the worker will get back to work and the return on investment is compounded over the years like compound interest.
Right but we also need to reduce the reasons for mental health problems. There is a study that says that a person can lose up to 15 IQ points if they can't afford to pay even basic bills. We shouldn't have so many people depressed. Clearly we are doing something wrong in our societies. Look at Global warming, and the list goes on and on. We need to address fundamental issues or we will never be able to even afford or administer that much care in total. It's high time we treat the underlying condition(s) and not just put band-aids on a broken system.
@@autohmae It seems mental health in Belgium isn't free, nor covered by the government health care in any way. 70 Euro seems to be where consultations start and clearly going broke from trying to get better isn't going to help your stress or life. She might not have had full access to help as they only pay for the drugs not the possibly even more important therapy.
This one is very different, My mother just used oregon's Death with dignity law this last summer. She was riddled with cancer and suffering greatly. Likely only a month to live either way. Very different then a 23 year old with there whole life ahead of them. Everyone has bad times, some people have real bad times. But as long as you have a future it can get better. Esp at 23.
@@AndyPrimeOneim very supportive if you have something debilitating like terminal cancer and it's just the choice of should this person be a guinea pig or die as they want to. In this case it honestly seems like she could've done a lot more in her life and had choices. The thing I'd couldn't someone convince a perfectly healthy person physically and mentally be convince to come to them for suicide. Can't a normally lonely person be persuaded in a heat of the moment to go through and halfway towards death you suddenly regret like most suicide attempts.
I believe it was Emperor Constantine that declared suicide a sin. Because life was so hard for the serfs that they were jumping off cliffs to get to heaven and royalty was starving because there weren’t enough serfs to tend to their food needs.
Id rather die in a lab than risk someone finding me and being traumatized for life. I dont think anyone should be made to suffer. The world sucks and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to be in it.
Forcing people to live a life they hate that they are powerless to change is torture, full stop. No one should have the right to force you to live if every day is going to be a nightmare experience for you.
@@danaaronmusic when someone is living in pain, and you tell them "you're not allowed to die", you are telling them "you need to continue living agony". There comes a point where those are the only two options in some cases and taking away one of them is exactly equivalent to forcing the choice of the other.
@@LordMajicus Again, no one said anything about forcing you to live or not allowing you to die. You have every right to end your life if that is your choice. The matter in question here is whether a physician has the right to euthanize you.
Life is also too precious to live in anguish that you cannot control and to live only because someone who has not experienced this tells you that you have to live.
This sounds more like doing something in spite of people telling you that you shouldn't than it is about having "freedom" to do it. Nobody can forbid you in taking your own life, but that doesn't mean that other people should help you in that process.
I've never seen the life is precious argument used like this but you know what you're right. Most people say life is precious so ban physician suicide, but life is precious so why are you going to force someone to suffer longer than they need to?
@@leonxl There are a lot of other uses for a gun, and the most common is actually preserving your own life. So no, it's not the sellers fault that he sells the gun to someone he doesn't know is going to commit suicide. With assisted euthanasia that is the whole purpose, so your logic is totally false.
When severely depressed just waking up and getting up to use the restroom or eat can be exhausting. I'm assuming she didn't have to work a job if she had such severe mental decline and she had housing and food benefits/assistance. In the States if you're this depressed you still have to work to afford outrageous housing costs or fight to get assistance. It's hard to call that living. I'm sad that she felt this was her only way to peace but I'm glad she had the choice. I'm hopeful for the future of mental health care in the world, we've made some good strides in the US in the past 30yrs. We need to take care of each other.
Assisted suicide may be less traumatic for a person's loved ones than a loved one finding a hanging body in the bedroom. They may get to talk it out at least and get affairs in order. Perhaps find a way to determine if they're suicidally depressed before Killin em...maybe set it up so they have to push the kill button themselves if they're ready to go so the Dr doesn't have to carry that guilt.
@Dan Reiser This is very true, and mental health in particular should disqualify you from making that choice, because by definition if someone is mentally Ill how do they really have the mental reasoning to make a right choice? A perfect example of this was my dad, he was very sick in the hospital from heart failure, he hadn't slept in 4 days, he got to the point where he completely gave up, said he wanted to die and didn't want treatment anymore. My sister immediately jumped on the side of him, as if that was his "choice" and we should respect it. I got pretty angry, pointing out that he was delirious, and was in no mental state to make such a choice in the first place. Lo and behold he finally slept and didn't want to die the next day..
I agree 1,000,000% with Krystal. Kyle why are people attempting suicide? Not just because they want to, but because living feels so unbearable that they would rather die. Capitalism plays a major role in people's depression/ pain
What infuriates me about this case is that her death was originally planned for march 20th, two days before the anniversary of the Brussels attacks. But due to an anonymous complaint (probably some religious group) at the last moment it got delayed for another 2 months. She had planned out everything she still wanted to do and the people she still wanted to meet. After she had done all that, saying goodbye to everyone she knew, she was forced to spent another 2 months suffering her illness and ended up blocking herself off from the outside world.
That infuriates you? Grow up. What she did was wrong, no matter her excuse. She could have done it herself if she was truly serious about it. Seeing a terrible thing is no reason to kill yourself though, why was this ever approved?
I don't know about this. She's was 23. There is seemingly so much growth potential for a person this young. At that age I had a friend who had to drop out of school and couldn't leave her home due to mental health issues. She somehow grew up, met the love of her life and found meaning. Time heals a lot. Things change and get better.
@@kenetickups6146 Heh. I think outside of terminal illness it shouldn't happen. I don't believe a person that wants to kill themselves due to psychological issues can consent to their own death, even at their own hand. Also by that logic why even try to help anyone who wants to kill themselves ever? That argument doesn't work. I'd rather the argument be that after the situation has been assessed, it has been concluded that the person will kill themselves regardless, and doing it medically would be better. Or something about it reducing non medically assisted suicides and making people flock to a process that involves them actually getting mental healthcare first. The simple argument of "not forcing people to live" is stupid, because it removes any reason for trying to help any suicidal people ever, and ignores the fact that a mind that wants to kill themselves is so unhealthy that it probably can't consent to that. The only exception to this is painful terminal illness, since the mind isn't an issue here, and death will arrive anyway, the subject will just go through more pain.
As a physically and mentally disabled and mentally ill person and has attempted suicide thrice I feel like doctors especially in the psychology field, these doctors do not know enough about what it’s like to actually live through these things everyday and do not listen to or believe their patients properly compared to doctors that do experience these things. It took me switching doctors twice for a doctor to decide to take my chronic physical and mental pain seriously and one I knew my entire life did not care. I think the place medicine and societal empathy is at now is not ready for something as misunderstood to make a decision like this yet. The amount of time it takes for a doctor to not only believe you are in fact experiencing something for them to think you’re not trying to get drugs for free on top of “the average time to get something diagnosed 7 years” is is enough alone for me to believe we just aren’t ready on a systemwide euthanasia option for mental illnesses. Also it is not uncommon for illnesses aren’t realized to be misidentified, and subsequently mistreated, until the autopsy. While we are far along medically from our past, we are not as far along as we like to believe we are
@@theonewhoweeps5118 not sure if psychedelics are something can't people consider. They would also need to do it in a medical setting because giving psychadelics to someone on the edge isn't always a great idea .especally by yourself
@@somethingginterestingg4275 treatment with psychedelics is rare in Europe (it’s still very much in a research phase) but when it’s done here under guidance of medical professionals
The problem I have, at least in America, is that mental health care is obscenely expensive so forcing people to go through years of treatment first is impossible. For example one of my medications costs 1300 a month without insurance. Then you have to add on the fact that most mental health medications have severe side effects and withdrawal symptoms and I just can’t support putting people through that if they don’t want to. As someone who’s battled with wanting to end things since my preteen years, I wish I would just be allowed to do it already. I’ve had years of therapy and medication, and it just doesn’t help. Legal euthanasia is important because it’s actually fairly hard to end things. Survival instinct is incredibly annoying, and fast/painless methods are usually complicated, expensive, or risk jail time. If you fail, you put loved ones through extra grief and worry, plus you’ll probably get slapped with insane medical bills. Oh and you could also wind up a vegetable in worst case scenarios.
It will discourage people from killing themselves outside of a medical setting and will get people to be more open about when they are suicidal, and for those who can't be helped they deserve to make that choice to exist for themselves
Nope society shouldn't send signals to a suicidal person it's ok to kill themselves, it'll lessen the gravity of doing so. If you allow for something legally or socially, people are gonna do it more, and if something's normalized people are gonna care less about it. That's just goes for human behavior in general. Also if you have people who's job is to assist suicide, you've created an incentive sturcture for it to keep happening and a class of people where assiting suicide will just be another day at the office.
The issue is what it it becomes a systematic answer to life struggles, and assisted suicide makes suicides in general go through the roof. I guess we will see based on what the stats say out of places like Switzerland
@@maisa5943 Suicide rates in Switzerland are considerably lower than they are in the US. And assisted suicide has been legal there for long enough we don't need to wait for stats to gauge the effects.
I wonder if by "terminal illness", Krystal and/or Kyle would consider Alzheimer's in that category? My personal opinion is "hell yes" after watching what my father has been going through, and by extension, my mother. His entire family died of Alzheimer's and I myself have a statistically much higher chance of developing this horrific disease. My hope is by the time I would get it, we would have options here in the US to checkout on our own terms, with help. Otherwise, I can't see riding that sh*t into the ground. There's just no good reason to do so.
Most everyone who has been affected by a family member with severe cognitive issues that I've talked to has openly acknowledged that they want to end their lives while they can still mostly function because it's so brutal on family/caregivers when the disease gets to a certain point.
100%. My grandmother went through the same thing. Every day she said she wanted to die. When she did, I was so happy for her. She was miserable the last 2yrs of her life.
I think anyone who has experience with Alzheimer's sufferers has similar views. The thought of eventually developing the disease is simply the greatest fear throughout the lives of children or relatives of Alzheimer's sufferers. It seems a no brainer to me that people should be allowed check out with dignity once they cease to be able to function normally and live independently.
The problem with placing Alzheimers in this category is that the person, by definition, is not of sound mind. Unfortunately, that makes it difficult if not impossible for them to make such a profound decision with absolute clarity.
@@dlg5485 Well, that's not the definition. Alzheimer's disease has many levels to it, and someone in the early stages is very different from someone in the late stages. I would just remove this arbitrary requirement altogether and make it a right for that person, regardless of what you think of their mental capability, because it really does not matter on its own.
Being in this existence is overrated. We do that because we have biologically driven, self preservation instincts and we don't really know what's after death, if there's anything at all and that makes and that makes us afraid. We need to get over those things and let people who want off the train early to get off mercifully and with dignity and when they want to.
If someone has been suffering non-stop for years and nothing has changed then why not? Would you rather have them suffer constantly for another 50+ years??
I think what Kyle is getting at is that depression may cause someone to want to end their own life, but that feeling may eventually be defeated (and frequently is) through treatment rather than suicide, and obviously we should make sure that people have been given every treatment to try defeating depression through treatment before offering euthanasia as an option.
Yeah that's what I'm most curious about: is suicidal ideation a symptom OF severe depression, or is it more of a rational, lucid desire BASED on how awful it is to live with severe depression? Depressed/traumatized people who are like "Why do I keep having thoughts and desires to kill myself?? It doesn't make sense!" probably should be targeted with treatment, because the ideation is clearly a delusional symptom of the illness. But those who are like "I'm constantly sad, numb, stuck in negative thoughts, have no joy or interest or passion or motivation or hope anymore, and none of the treatments have helped. I'd rather die than keep living like this for the rest of my days" -- those people should be given this freedom to choose death.
@@Dwafiz Interesting view, but I don't see the point. Why not just unilaterally give everyone the right to euthanasia instead of barring them based on hard-to-measure or abitrary logic? I don't think, given the chance, that most would go through with it as they would reconsider and postpone their decision.
Sure. You just have to be careful that you don't make the hoops too much to jump through. Like republicans with abortion, at a certain point you're not actually trying to help by making a woman sit down with a doctor and have the doctor try to talk her out of abortion. You're just trying to limit abortions because you don't like abortions, not because you're actually trying to do what is best for someone. Really, our society needs to address the things that cause people to want to kill themselves. The capitalist rat race in this country is very depressing. 90% of the population is not really allowed to have any meaning to their lives aside from supporting the system of wealth so that a few people can live in extravagance. If we're willing to provide for someone's basic needs such as food, shelter, and medical care, after we've been willing to go that far to support them, then I think we can have a conversation about how they "owe" us the responsibility to consider options other than suicide. But as long as we've got this "you're on your own" mentality about everything, nobody owes us anything. If we don't provide anything, they don't owe us anything, and that includes their life. Their life should be theirs to do with as they please. They don't even "owe" us the time to listen to us trying to talk them into living until we're willing to provide them with free mental health counselling. I was hospitalized for depression once, and afterwards I went and got a copy of my records from the hospital. I remember that the doctor wrote in my file that the hospitalization would only make my depression worse, since the medical bill was only going to add to my problems and make my situation more dire and depressing. That didn't stop them from charging me $18,000 dollars for my stay, though.
Lol. "Given" treatment like psych treatment is free and not a business to make money. First society has to actually value human life and human dignity more than the almighty dollar. Never gonna happen.
I agree but unfortunately treatment is gatekept. I have friends who have endured so much pain because they cannot afford a doctor who cares to treat them properly. I can afford to pay for slightly better treatment but it’s only marginally better at the cost of hundreds of dollars every two months. I don’t blame anyone who is suffering greater than me who, at this present lack of good mental health and access to it, would rather die.
Good for her to have her choice, when years of treatments do not work then this was her choice. Mental pain is equal to physical pain. There are rules and it often requires further testing and or treatments.
@@dontforgettolike7127 I'm 28 years old and I've been depressed for around 15 years. Yeah, it's bad and I have other mental conditions on top of that. Can't wait until I can end my life legally via Exit Switzerland here, just need to wait 2 more years.
@@YunoGasai414 It is sad that in-spite of all the treatments that for some they do not work. I hope on the next two years you can find some peace and effective treatments.
I didnt choose to be born, I didnt choose to be here, so I sure as hell should be able to choose to leave at any time I want. I'm not government property, they cant force me to exist. Imagine living in a shitty society and not even being allowed to die. What kind of hell on earth is that?
i am 100% in favour of this. if you are willing to jump through all the hoops placed in front of you because you want to die that badly, it is what is. i think you should have the right to do that. they're probably going to do it anyway, in a much more painful way with a lower chance of success if you tell them no.
Euthanasia because you WITNESSED a tragedy but SURVIVED?? She was LUCKY and now her life is a GIFT and taking her own life is a big eff you to all of the people who died. I am an atheist but a small part of me wants to believe the Catholics when they say that suicide death leads to Hell.
@@Zurround brother, no. She was traumatized and probably relived the event thousands of times. After reliving watching dozens of other people die over and over again, she didn't want to go through it anymore. It seems very understandable to me.
@@Fleezblarp Um... THERAPY?? Maybe even including GROUP therapy for trauma victims? If I had been the euthanasia doctor I would have ONLY given her a drug to cause REGULAR sleep and then when she wakes up I would have a long talk with her to convince her the importance of life. I might even lose my job but some day she would be grateful to me for that.
I’ve been watching both of y’all for a while, and I just need to say, I love your discussions. You both have honest, we’ll thought out positions. Plus you argue them in good faith and really listen to each other. It’s just super refreshing compared to the garbage discussions I see in other media I know this probably won’t get read, but I really do appreciate y’all Krystal, Kyle, and Friends cast and crew. Ya’ll have my Substack subscription. ❤
The best times of my life were between '04 and '05. Now that they're gone and the people I looked up to aren't in my life anymore, I can't find a reason to continue. It's hard, man.
My Grandmother also died of a morphine overdose back in 1978 with the help of a sympathetic doctor. I think it still happens more then most people suspect.
She went gently. Her doctor cared for her. There is an ethical and deeply moral stance that doctors take agaisnt the law. They take the hippocratic oath which includes "to do no harm". The doctor probably saw your grandma suffering and would not allow her to be harmed by that pain any longer so they used the morphine to take the pain from their patent.
@@theodorebear6714 put it perfectly. Many families don't know the realities of what the suffering like the people who actually do the work to care for their sick loved ones. Families like to believe they're doing good by keeping their suffering loved ones alive. Its super selfish.
The critical question is whether the person is mentally in a position to make a rational choice. For people with depression and similar psychiatric illnesses it is too dangerous to allow them to decide since the disease may be variable in its expression and some relief may be possible and their ability to make rational decisions is reduced. The position of someone who has Motor Neurone Disease or other terminal and incurable somatic illness is very different and if their competence to make decisions is not questionable then it is hard to argue against assisted dying.
Over a certain period of time in my life, the only reason I didn’t follow through was out of the fear that I wouldn’t be successful & then bound to a nursing home, essentially a vegetable from injuring myself. Do I still have the desire now? No. Do I regret feeling that way or scared about thinking how close I was? Absolutely not. The pain and isolation is not something I’d wish on worst enemy. This is 1000% a good idea.
I’m 28 and I feel that way now. I’ve suffered with mental illness since I was a child and it’s only gotten worse. The Only thing that has stopped me is not finding A way of doing it fast and painlessly. I can’t imagine getting over this feeling since I’ve felt it my whole life but I’m happy to hear that you don’t feel that way anymore. Hope it keeps getting bette for you and thank you for sharing your story ❤
@@Emmiiii267 if I’m allowed to share a little more…while life/my MH now is far from perfect, the silver lining that comes from being so low, you basically lose your fear of death, or better to say your attachment to life and worldly things. They lose importance as your perspective shifts. Especially if you’re a trauma survivor, with the right support and path forward of you’re own choosing (I say with time, support and action), you begin to get a true sense of your own power. And if you’re detached from those two inherent human weaknesses (fear and desire) it puts you in a pretty good position to tackle life’s challenges.
We send a message we don't value lives by the wages paid and by the Healthcare system Kyle. People are just resources to be exploited, not valued or revered in this country.
They care about fetuses, but not babies, children, men nor women. Only fetuses and clump of cells after conception. Pre-born they will protect you. Pre-school you are f**ked.
If someone doesn't wanna be here it's their choice not to be here anymore. It feels completely wrong to me to try to keep someone here who thinks life is basically hell.
Are you one of those people who would not talk a person off a ledge but just keep walking right on by? There is nothing authoritarian in trying to prevent damaged individuals from hurting themselves, in fact as a society we owe it to these people. Krystal was saying “maybe she should have been kept alive if she has kids.” So a woman’s life is more valuable when she’s a mother? And we are to just place our trust in doctors to make these kinds of moral calculations? There are many problems with this line of thinking. It’s not as clear cut as many pretend and I think Kyle’s take here shows maturity
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Never said I wouldn't try to talk somebody out of it, just that it shouldn't be illegal. As in law. Sure if your friend's depressed you should try to make them feel better. And yeah if somebody has kids it obviously has a deeper dimension..... although at the same time forcing a suicidally depressed parent to raise kids probably wouldn't result in a particularly good outcome either.
@@darkpark6531 But talking someone down from a ledge would be “trying to keep someone here who thinks their life is hell.” And I don’t see anything wrong with that. And the law in question is “physician assisted,” which involves an outside party, a doctor, in the subject’s death… not just the subject themself. So an even more appropriate analogy would be a depressed person holding a needle full of fentanyl asking for your assistance. I think in many cases, it OUGHT to be illegal to “help” a mentally distressed person in this way. It’s not correct to frame this issue as purely one of personal liberty… there’s a lot of other ethical considerations here. That’s all I’m saying
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Obviously I wasn't referring to 'talking someone down from a ledge'. I'm talking about physician-assisted suicide. The key thing to diagnose with a suicidal person is whether they're experiencing ideation or intent. Most of the time it's ideation and any psychiatrist worth their salt will be able to see that.
I do not respect other peoples attempts to tell me when and how I determine my life will end. As someone who struggles every day with bipolar depression, it is a deeply intense and personal choice, and while many will say its cruel to remove oneself from their lives, its also cruel to demand someone who is suffering every day to continue to do so just so that they can delay the feeling of loss. I live, because I choose to. Maybe one day that wont be the case. But it will ultimately be my choice, not my families, not my friends, not some imaginary god creatures, not the laws. Mine.
You have your head up your ass stupid. Asking someone to legally kill you is a world apart from killing yourself. No you do not at all have a right to force someone else to kill you. That is not a right. I am sorry that you feel so entitled, that is the reason you want to die, because you have never struggled to achieve anything in your pathetic short life. Work really hard on something that feeds your soul, it will give you meaning in your miserable little life
@@shelleycline3542 I'm sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't including the age group that we've collectively decided isn't capable of making life-changing decisions.
As a depressive person myself, I think everyone should have the right to end their lives. I don't care what you think if you're not depressive and you don't suffer from mental health yourself, you have no right to tell us what we can do with our lives. Freedom is freedom, in life and death.
There is no mind/body dichotomy: it is a self-reflective system with very real permanent scarring throughout. Recovery is a question of contextualization, which is a function of the extrinsic qualities of life. Would it have been possible for her to recover? The chance was not zero. Is our world conducive for it? I don't believe so. Is the world likely to get worse? Yes. The pain you comprehend is the pain you've experienced and, unfortunately (or fortunately?), it can have a compounding effect with empathy.
If you want to stop living there is very little that can be done to stop it, so the real question is should you be allowed to get medical help in doing so or should you do it yourself in a less humane way.
This is exactly my view too. If somebody has been through all the prescribed treatments, explored unconventional treatments and they remain resolute in wanting to die, then they'll almost certainly find a way to do it. I would rather the state provide an option of last resort, where the person can die in peaceful surroundings under medical supervision, rather than being alone and terrified jumping in front of an oncoming train in the dead of night. Neither outcome is pleasant and every effort should be made to help the patient overcome the trauma which is driving them to such desperation, but if things get to a point where everyone feels as though further treatment is no longer effective, don't leave these desperate vulnerable people to face their end alone, respect their decision and the reccomendations of the doctors and help the patient to end their life with dignity.
There's plenty that can be done. I know from experience and years of research. Psychedelics and lucid dreaming are some ways people can work on their problems in healthy ways. This way people are bound to find the root of their issue and how to fix it
@@shadw4701 But what if they don't want to do it? Are you saying we don't have control over our own bodies? What is the moral basis and foundation for such a belief? Is it some bronze age bs book and god/s?
I mean... It's fucking horrible and I hate that this happened but if you are for rights and freedom... This could be a possibility that someone wants this that bad. 😞
I get that, and I don't understand exactly how bad this woman's situation was, but I think we should consider the psychology behind suicidal behavior. Suicide is typically impulsive; it's a feeling that comes and goes for some people suffering with mental illness, but it can never be reversed once it's done. While I wouldn't want anyone to suffer such intense mental distress with no hope of recovery, do we really want to be a society that gives up on people in these circumstances if there's a chance for their recovery? To be clear, I'm absolutely in favor euthanasia as an available option in the most hopeless circumstances of terminal illness, paralysis, excruciating chronic pain, etc., but I don't know if this is the right trajectory to take if we want to say that we truly value human happiness and wellbeing.
Idk....at 23 years of age? It's impossible to say she wouldn't recover some. One of the symptoms of depression is hopelessness, thinking things won't ever get better.
I agree that the age of the woman in this story does strike a certain visceral nerve, but it's ultimately a arbitrary factor in the grand scheme of things. Not unlike extreme physical trauma, there's a reasonable, analogous argument to made that sufficient psychological damage can bring an individual to conclude that ending their life and therefore suffering is the only way out. Baring some sort of corrective breakthrough in the field of neurology/psychopharmacology that can alleviate mental anguish
@@Richie_Godsil I don’t think it’s arbitrary at all when we *know* that the prefrontal context keeps developing and hasn’t reached maturity yet up into your mid 20s. It’s also not arbitrary when we *know* that depression can come with feelings of hopelessness and it does often affect the patient’s ability to make rational decisions.
@@MsScarletwings True the brain is still developing in 20's but in the specifics context of assistant suicide, (ideally) there are professionals in different fields trying all known treatments and interventions before euthanasia is finally considered. I'm not trying to argue that we should be flippant about ending anyone's life or anything.
Unfortunately, we live in a world that doesn't provide the appropriate nor sufficient care to those in need. There is only one way to end suffering. Especially if it's a quality of life issue. I've been living with chronic pain and chronic health issues for over 20 years. Recovery is not an option. I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted from dealing with the programs I have to deal with in order to prevent myself from becoming homeless. Millions of us become collateral damage.
I don't agree with Kyle, he sounds kinda like a pro life guy on this If someone wants to kill themselves, do it got them or they might hurt others in the process Legalize assisted suicide, but make it a process where you have to exhaust every option first I don't care if people wanna off themselves, let them do it You can't know what it's like being in someone else's head I also don't care if someone wants to kill their unborn baby, do what you want, life isn't as precious as you wanna think, we are all just organs of the same being, and if one is failing, cut it out and move on (assuming we have some organ redundancy lol)
[TRIGGER WARNING, obviously] Here's the thing, Kyle. If a person doesn't want to be here anymore, why should they be forced to either live despite not wanting to or kill themselves in some horrible way? Do you know of any safe, effective, humane ways for a person to do that? No? Then how about thinking about the horrific suicides we have every year already instead of what we might have. Allowing assisted suicide would prevent cruel deaths which is humane, yes? I've wanted to go for the past few years. It's my life. I'm the one who's lived it. I'm the one who's suffered daily from many physical ailments, which includes severe pain, and mental illness. I'm 51 and my illnesses are getting worse, pain getting worse. Who else has the right to decide when I die? I wish there were a "suicide kit" that we could buy (though being poor i probably couldn't afford it🤣). Yes. The horrors and risks of attempting suicide force many of us to stay here when there's no humane options but I never thought that would be your opinion, Kyle. What is a bigger freedom than being allowed to choose when you're done? Or do you think we should be forced to keep running in the hamster wheel making money for the rich küntz and living lives of indentured servitude where we increasingly can't put food on the table, buy clothes to wear, afford housing, etc. Here. I want you to actually try to imagine one of these things happening to you. How it would feel and what you'd experience physically as you're dying. Also remember the percentage chance that you'll fail and live a worse life lying in a bed for decades having your diaper changed, not being able to scratch that itch and being unable to order food that you actually like (yes I've thought too much about this). - hanging (noose)/suffocation - stabbing - shooting - cutting wrist/throat - taking a load of pills/chemicals - running in front of a vehicle (which traumatizes other people too, so no!) - drowning - fire - choking For those who disagree with my opinion: It's mine, not yours. Don't worry. I'm not gonna try to force it on you. One of the things that makes the world beautiful is lovely variety including opinions. 🤍🫂🥰
@@aandreya " Deadwish occures, when the wish of knowing what will happen next, disappears. " You can't even spell, let alone make a valid claim supported by empirical data. Stop making things up
@@aandreya So when does this Deadwish start for me ? And the only Deadwish I know is a 2018 American vigilante action thriller. I can't seem to find deadwish anywhere. Can you link a citation ? thanks.
@@sharper68 Furthermore ... People in our society that are meant to evaluate people to avoid clear "mistakes" caused by definitive & simple side effects from some other issue ... have indeed evaluated her so what else is there left to say ...
I’m sad that she was in a position that she felt suicide was her only option but I respect her decision. We shouldn’t stigmatize it. The pain of mental illness is sometimes too great to keep asking the sufferers to endure.
@Dan Reiser I think it's more selfish that you expect people to live for your sake when they are in great pain and have no will to exist. People don't owe you anything. If someone wants to die, they're not selfish. Dying is no more "selfish" than living.
@Dan Reiser You obviously have a lot of anger and personal grievances surrounding the topic that causes you to hate and dehumanize suicidal people. I pity you and can't engage with someone like you who has such a shallow view.
I’ve been struggling with mental illness my entire life. I’m 28 now and it’s only gotten worse. I’m at a low where I’ve been thinking about committing suicide because I’ve tried everything and I haven’t been able to get better. It’s truly hard to describe what it’s like to live a life where you feel like you live in your own personal hell and your body and mind is against you. And people telling me I’m not alone doesn’t help. Very few things keep me around but I think the fact that I don’t have an easy access to end my life in a painless way is one of them. I completely understand the want to end ones life. I think we should we all have that choice
I don’t have social media. I take daily walks and I don’t masterbate and watch porn. I have PTSD , depersonalization/derealization and severe depression. I don’t feel connected to myself or the world around me because of it. Regular therapy isn’t helpful and neither is the things u suggested as I tried them already as their common suggestions. I just think my cocktail of mental illness makes it harder to “fix” with simple stuff like that. I can’t even go out with friends and family without having a panic attack and shutting down. But thank you anyways for your reply and suggestions. Hope you’re doing well
@@Emmiiii267 Your kindness came through in your reply. You took care to explain yourself well and expressed gratitude at the end. It sounds like you face difficult challenges. All the best.
For me being able to have power over your own live is the most fundamental freedom. If you cannot choose to tap out, what can you choose? I dont want to imprison people in their own bodies.
One way or another… life is messy. For example, cancer doesn’t care about your plans, family or ideals. Suicide is a personal choice and if it is destigmatized and people are thinking about it, they may feel comfortable talking about their problems knowing they won’t get locked up and that may change their mind. And to Kyle’s concern of life being seen as unimportant, I think watching the news it is apparent every day that that is the case. We are told how precious life is and we see people are treated like trash
This should absolutely be a right. Society has no right to compel others to live. If they are miserable in this world, in this society, for whatever reason, we have no right to tell them they have to go on with it. For example, if there's a gay person who is hated and despised by most and society and has spent their entire life in social isolation, has no family, no chance at a normal life, they have a right to leave if they want to.
@@vinny9868 I assume she was speaking in abstract. Like would she have come to regret a decision had she not made it. Kinda like how some people who attempt suicide but fail, end up regretting making the decision to kill themselves later in life.
It is very arrogant to impose your will on someone who wants to check out. It is not your business to interfere in someone's decision to check out of this hotel. You have no idea what they are feeling and it is their decision. Just like telling an honest citizen living in the ghetto, they can't have a semi-automatic weapon to defend themselves while politicians and the wealthy class have the best security money can buy. You can't have people tell you what to do because they have an idealism that is totally irrelevant to someone else's situation. What tyranny, and despotism to even entertain that you have the right to make it so hard for someone who has already agonized for who knows how long before they came to this point. Philosophically, I may just have a more positive outlook and relaxed attitude toward letting go. Mind your own business. We live in a dystopian wasteland, to begin with, and there are many reasons why someone might not care to continue. My favorite is pro-lifers. Their faux care for the child stops after birth. They do nothing to create a better infrastructure for poor and disenfranchised children in this country born into nightmare landscapes. They even vote against school lunches, daycare assistance, living wages, and affordable healthcare. The bastards even vote to defund PBS and Big Bird.
This video reminds me why I love Kyle so much. Outside of politics I just always felt Kyle is such a good person. He truly an empathetic person who seems to just what to help people live a good life. I remember when he also said that he didn’t care If he worked a regular job and had some of his taxes go to people to just have a certain amount of money go to people that just wanna live and do nothing. Like he didn’t care this was when he was talking about Andrew yang policy and people were saying too many would not work and live off the 1k
Kyle started banging a married women 3 kids when caught the affair was put on social media to smear it in her husband's face Kyle announced there engagement and she's not even divorced yet these are wonderful loving people I laughed my ass off reading that comment lol
Krystal and Kyle just made the argument for universal healthcare. If we as a country are pro-life, then make it easier to people to access healthcare without going bankrupt or needing to have a job. I’m not sure how pro-life Americans are, when people are rationing life-saving insulin medication.
What upsets me most about this story is that psychedelics would likely have helped this girl immensely. Studies show psychedelics administered in a controlled clinical setting are very effective in helping patients process traumatic events. But I doubt such an option was even presented to her because psychedelics aren't legal in Belgium. When society says it would rather put you to death than bend the rules slightly to potentially save you, that most definitely is "the wrong message".
I have childhood ptsd. That is not rational thinking. I recommend a therapist that treats ptsd specifically. Not a pshcologist or a psychiatrist. They all have their place but ptsd therapy is a different treatment.
I think the area where this becomes troubling is in situations where the patient lacks/loses mental capacity (e.g. as a result of a severe illness) and others (e.g. healthcare professionals, family members, advocates) make the decision on their behalf and arrive at the conclusion that assisted death is in the patient's best interest. Provided there are major restrictions / safeguards around this, I can see a reasonable rationale for having assisted dying be legal, potentially even as far as for people with severe mental illness.
I have Chornic pain from my TMJ disease. I have 7 brothers and sisters and they all hate me. They think I'm pretending or I should just get over it and live a normal life. My dad hates me because I'm weak and I ask for help. All i have is my mother. When she passes I am going to move to one of these countries so I can end my life with dignity instead what I fear will be a horrific event.
Me too and I have spinal stenosis and I have some sort of autoimmune thing and ringing tinitus but dude I can get stoned and still have fun at home even if I can't go out much anymore.
@@thealternative9580 I was able to find a strain that works with my disease instead of making it work like 99% of strains do. My disease is invisible even though it affects almost every bit of my life. I'm so glad cannabis helps you my man. It truly is a gift from the gods.
As someone who lives with depression I’m completely with Krystal. I’m “lucky” that my depression has not been worse than passive suicidal ideation. I know people who live every day suffering and sometimes the way to empower yourself is to take control and end it. I can’t stand paternalism for depressed folks.
It’s basically a “humane” way for Dr.’s to end your life legally. It’s for those who are actually going to commit suicide at home, off a bridge, cliff, street drugs or gun. This will also save people like family members, neighbors, any citizens from finding body and get their trauma. Then you got emergency personal responding to go out to retrieve and investigations to make sure it’s a suicide. It would be for those with basically terminal mental issues that will lead to their successful suicide.
I support it as well, it should be regulated of course. I’m someone who struggles with CPTSD and have had attempts at taking my life, I feel so conflicted about letting people like me end themselves like that. If you are still here after attempting, you’re here for a reason ❤ at least try to get help before saying f it all
Severe depression and anxiety, is not something that you one day think or switch off. The mental pain,i believe in some instances is as worse as physical pain. The logical thought process dwindles and goes out the window, even when you think you should be able to logically reason with all facets of life. Suicide isn't just willy nilly. The mind is so complex and manipulable by our own minds, it cam create and existential prison in your mind. This is sad. I appreciated both takes from Kyle and Krystal.
As doom and gloom as it sounds, the fact that there are govt assisted suicide programs around the world, gives me hope that when I wanna go, I can go with dignity as opposed to being riddled with disease in old age
Well if you actually gave a sh*t about your life, you would live it in a way right now that severely lowered the chances of you being diseased and sick in old age, but you don't really care about that do you?
Here in the Netherlands euthenasia has been legal for a few decades now but can be a difficult and lengthy procedure, not something that can be decided on a whim. It's about the same in Belgium. Basic rule is that there has to be needless physical or mental suffering without any prospect of possible improvement in the future. Several doctors will get involved, the family is consulted, forms have to be filled out, etc. Basically you are preventing people from needless suffering untill they die of old age, which would be very cruel. Last year 7,666 euthenasia requests were granted, on a total population of over 17 million that is about 0.04%. If your government provides good healthcare and takes good care of it's citizens there is no need to be afraid that it will become a high percentage.
None of us had a say in our creation. We're all thrown into this forced fight for survival. Maybe not all wish to partake for the long haul. For that reason alone, everyone should be able to dictate the pace of their life/death. Doctors are uncomfortable by it? Find a new profession. Helping people doesn't necessitate forcing your world view onto someone. YOU like living? Good for YOU. It's ME we're talking about here.
I'm with Krystal on this one. The person who feels the pain and suffering is the only one who can truly understand them, and maybe sometimes it might be felt as a terminal illness. An illness that nobody can see, but is so severe that calls for a devastating end. We cannot tell that person what to do with their life, because we do not know what they are going through. This subject should be studied more deeply. This story is extremely sad.
Disagree. We don’t have that level of understanding/control over our own minds. Have you never felt extreme emotions only for them to go away with time, and then you wonder why you felt them in the first place?
@@gurvirsingh7964 You said it yourself, the key is if they go away with time. What if they don't and your emotional, physical, and mental strength are not able to hold it. We do not know enough.
Existence can be brutal and unfair. If one is to have dominion over their own person that should include the choice to opt out of existence so long as all alternatives have been exhausted.
emotional pay can be just as damaging and exhausting as physical pain. if you've tried to get help, and nothing is working, would you really want to live the rest of your life permanently depressed?
This sounds like a storyline out of HBO’s The Leftovers, an apocalyptic post rapture drama series. They were undergoing societal collapse and it feels like the real world becomes more and more dystopian daily.
One of the benefits of a legal process would be very similar to legal drug use sites. People who come there can also seek treatment and access resources. In the same way, if people could come in to apply for assisted suicide, that would get them started in a process for help options and treatment. They would have to make it all the way through a screening process and series of efforts to save them before the suicide could be approved. I can see a benefit there, even if it seems crazy, but if people wanting to die can actually legally go somewhere and ask for it, that can get them in touch with the resources they need. If they just do it themselves instead, they never have that touch point to get help.
You either have a right to your own body or you don't. I believe we have the ultimate say if we don't want to live anymore for whatever reason. We never made the choice to be brought into this world, but I believe we should have the right to leave it when we want.
Everyone deserves the right to take they're own life safely, you could never convince me that anyone has the right to tell someone that their struggle isn't enough to want out
sometimes even people with depression dont understand why someone would choose to not want to exist anymore. To be honest I personally hope and pray that less and less people relate to that feeling. I think the lack of knowledge of mental illness and the fact that we're no the ones experiencing those sensations makes us not understand how bad mental illness can be. Mental ilness also appear in physcial form. Just think of a time where youve always felt intense fear and sadness and the relief you felt when you got out of that situation. Many peoples brain get damage by trauma where they are in a constant state of flight or fight response, their brain quite literally just categorizes everything as a threat and you constantly feel the sensations of fears and sadness, peoples brain literraly shut off a part of itself and you also get sensations of feelings like your fake and everything around you is fake (dissociation disorder) your brain really creates a hell all around you. even if you have people around you that suport you it still doesnt chnage the problem because your brain itself is already damage and people caring for you doesnt change the way your brain functions. People with PTSD and severe depression and other disorder have a brain that creates a hell for them and its isolating. The pain is a lot and theres a lot of physical symptoms that tend to always come with it too. its just a lot. I understand why someone would want to end their life when they have a brain that wont let them enjoy life the way a normal brain would.
I’ve never been happy a day in my life, and I’ll be twenty-six this month. The only reason I haven’t killed myself yet is the fear of what would happen if I’m “saved”. I don’t want to hang myself, only to be cut down after irreparable nerve damage and be paralyzed for the rest of my life. I wish I could just go to the doctor, tell them I want to die, and finally get the real help I need instead of therapy and drugs that don’t work.
The problem with legalizing euthanasia, without free medical care, is that even for a terminally ill patients, there is the possibility is that they are doing it not because the reached the end of the road, but they want to spare their family the healthcare cost of keeping them alive.
You point utterly fails to apply in societies where the family does not financially suffer from end-of-life care.
Which are most western nations, public health insurance takes care of it.
@@nilesbutler8638 It's a very Americanized view on the thing, yes
@@mikec8027 Its not fully irrelevant though.
Even in the nations where family does not have to shoulder all or at least some part of the weight of their elders care, one can still assume inheritance deliberations.
Or costs not directly related to healthcare like housing and personal consumption.
It is fair to assume there can be situations where an elder person might feel pressure to go for euthanasia even if they are not fully on board.
But I say the souvereignity right over ones own life is more important than protection from theoretical pressures.
Best thing that can be done is reducing motive for those pressures, i.e. socializing the burdens for family. So they dont have added motive to pressure somebody.
@@nilesbutler8638 Yes public health takes care of it. And then sends the bill to the next of kin.
@@mischevious Which nation, which system are you talking of?
Or are you speaking in general as in "public healthcare free at the point of service does also have to be paid for somehow" ?
That meme is a well kown truism and has been used for decades. Of course no doctor, nurse or pharmaceuticalmanufacturer works for free.
But was and still is rather silly.
Since socialized healthcare systems have been shown over and over to archieve better health and care outcomes, producing lower management overheadcosts than private ones.
Even in mixed systems like germany, where both concepts are allowed in parallel, the private ones take more money in and deliver worse consumer outcomes once levelized. Which should be obvious since the profit-driven middleman is missing in public systems.
I live in a state with a death with dignity law. My close friend had a terminal progressive brain/neurological disorder that would render her both mentally and physically incapable of taking care of herself. The disease would become more painful as it progressed and she was already in terrible pain. Even with that scenario, she was NOT able to find 2 doctors that would sign the paperwork for euthanasia. In fact, she couldn’t find any state that would allow her physician assisted suicide. She flew to Switzerland to access the system there which allowed her to make that decision for herself. Before she left she wrote me a 5 page letter explaining her choice and sharing her thoughts with me. I cannot blame her for her choice. I wish the laws were a bit more flexible so she wouldn’t have to take that step without a friend or family member to be with her at the end of her life.
So only people with whom passport and money can die with dignity just like if abortion is illegal, only wealthy people that can travel will be able to have them.
Mits so sad this is only an option for those who can afford to fly to Europe.
There are other ways. You can’t be force fed, nor forced to take your meds nor to drink water. You can possibly find a doc to Euthenize you but the meds for it are not covered by Medicare and are very expensive. That’s why you find elders jumping off cliffs and just try to find a car rental agency that will rent to elders. We have an odd attitude about death in this country. Yes, we’ll euthenize old Toby our beloved Golden Shepherd to put him out of his misery but no way will we support Mom or dad if they want to escape their misery.
So sad to hear that 'in the land of the free' people can't get the help they need to exercise their freedoms.
Sorry for your loss.
If she were suffering from debilitating depression would you support her dying?
How does a poor person in the United States who is diagnosed depressed afford to pay for drugs to fix their depression?
They can't.
Unless they have Medicaid.
It’s very sad that this 23-year-old young woman feel like she couldn’t go on. The problem I have with this concept is in the United States where really profit driven and I’m afraid some tragedies would occur in the name of someone getting paid
Even in the public sector, if you have people who's job is to assist suicide, then there's incentive sturcture for it to keep happening and a class of people where assiting suicide will just be another day at the office.
This is the society that the global elite ruling class want. Naturally, progressives will embrace this as muh free choice while demanding forced vaccinations.
Bingo. I'm in favor of the right to physician assisted suicide, but you have to be damned careful to ensure it isn't abused.
Whenever you mention the persons age in this question and being opposed to the suicide you're implying that you would be OK with it if the person was older. Maybe its the general worship of youth and the hatred of old people in this society. I'm so glad I wasn't trained to hate old people like so many of a certain age seem to. Sounding more like Logan's Run every time I see one of these debates.
It is sad when an 80 something year old person feels they can no longer gone in an excruciating life. It is very sad when a €23 person feels the same. Simply because the younger person had about 50 or 60 more potential years of life. There is a cult of youth. That does not change what I said
Having known someone who actually worked as a euthanasia provider in Switzerland, it bears saying that it is a long and regulated process. From signing up to it to the administration of the euthanasia drug it takes maybe a year, if not more, and the person undergoes many consultations during that period etc. This can also be psychologically difficult for those administering the process as they also form a personal relationship to the client, by necessity.
Its hard for me and I hope most people, to imagine experiencing unbearable pain or existence for even a few months.
This is INSANE. Depression can be overcome . This person was not thinking clearly in a depressed state . It’s a freeze state and comes from a trauma . I suffered my whole life until I found rewiring of the brain . Instead of offering her death , offer her HOPE and recovery 😡
My Uncle went through that process in Switzerland after he developed ALS. I was glad he had the option. You make a good point about the physicians involved. Doctors have a hard time losing patients in general, let alone being the ones that deliberately end their lives.
@@mariastefanie5835 This is psychotic shame on Krystal and Kyle supporting this I’ve survived sexual trauma, a car accident, severe bullying, & racism. Why can’t she go to therapy and get help by professionals? This is insane, the liberals aren’t the left let’s make that separation from here on out.
@@mariastefanie5835 with all due respect for what you’ve been through, what makes you think that that wasn’t offered to her as well? According to Krystal, she had tried everything that was available. Nobody offered her death. What the law does is allow people to do so, when their pain is so unbearable that there are no existing therapeutic ways to ease it. They don’t go looking for people to offer that option to. People search it out on their own. Plus, people can commit suicide on their own. They do so all the time in this country with a gun. Suicide is the #1 type of deadly shooting in this country. Its not mass shootings, school shootings, or even police shootings. It’s suicide.
I think it boils down to "my body, my choice".
We shouldn't impose life on those who don't want it.
It's not that simple. Even when euthanasia is illegal, it happens by people breaking the law. That's how it should be: illegal and available, precisely to avoid this ridiculous situation of a healthy 23 year old killing herself with state sanction. The wink and the nod method is the correct method.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 who in the hell are you to tell a 23-year-old that is suffering immensely like this woman was that it's ridiculous for her to consider suicide? You're not the one doing the suffering, she is! You are in no position to tell her that she must continue suffering.
@@jamessantell6707 She doesn't have to continue suffering. She can commit suicide by herself, illegally, or with illegal help from her friends. You can't legalize this situation.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 You haven't provided a good reason why it shouldn't be legalized.
Sure, healthy people may kill themselves as a result but how many unhealthy people are needlessly suffering right now?
Don't they deserve peace if all other options are exhausted? And this poor woman was suffering.
There are people that are physically healthy that are mentally unhealthy, and that's important to consider, too.
We don't have the knowledge to determine what she should have done, nor do we have the right.
@@MercerVerse because you shouldn't allow mentally ill people to kill themselves. My God we going to kill ourselves off before it's said and done.
Choosing how you live your life, or if it should continue facing the circumstances you face, should be 100% someone's right.
As someone who’s suffers from cycles of severe depression and had a parent committed suicide, I agree. I used to resent my biological father for leaving us, but now I understand. I can’t bring myself to do it myself because leaving family behind is HORRIBLE, but if my brother or mother came to me and told me they needed to let go (whether it me cancer or mental illness) and said goodbye, I wouldn’t resent them. I’d understand. I’d let them pass before their life story became a tragedy
@@Jalex92 you’re not alone. There’s so much going off and all of life’s wonders fade away as the days go by. The taste of food becomes subtle. “Happiness” synapses start to weaken. Traveling becomes a burden. Every day that we awaken goes from a gift to a curse. But just know that this is still something special, the probability of us being alive at this given time is one in trillions. Try to raw dog life, it’ll end in a very short amount of time. Embrace the suck.
I think that’s a little reckless and naive that a lot of people attempt suicide and a lot of them multiple times and actually turn their life around so are we letting people give in to temporary downs ?? I think there should be a age limit and also all other options have been tried and in rational time table.
Don't know that's really true. I wanted to die all last year. I don't anymore. 23 year olds are very volatile. Further, there were likely a LOT of people who were hurt by her death. Murder hurts everyone around the person who dies. Suicide hurts many people very badly, not just the one who died.
@@Jalex92 Most people don't understand what the life trajectory can look like for someone with severe mental illness. Your opinion is controversial but I have to agree given what I'm experiencing in my own life. I live with severe bipolar disorder that has only gotten worse with time, and no amount of medication has made a substantial difference. I think if legal assisted suicide was more common, it would lead to less people doing it in a spur of the moment decision, all alone with nobody to talk to because they know the subject is simply unapproachable.
I'm from Belgium and this case was a big story because of the reason of her choice for euthenasia, the terror attacks. She lost a lot of her friends (they were going on a senior year trip to Italy) and had severe anxiety attacks, depressions and paranoia. To legally get euthanasia in Belgium you must get the green light of not only two specialists (in this case psychologists) and there decisions must be OK'ed by a board, who's members are all specialist in the field (proffessors, docters, social workers, etc.). The decisions isn't taking willy nilly and only as a last resort. When she finally got the green light and a date, she took the time to say goodbye to all her loved ones and take a holiday to Italy as to finally end that chapter. It was sheduled 2 days before the anniversary of the terror attacks which was important for her as she didn't wanted to relive it again. Unfortunatly some anonymous complaint made that impossible as authorities had to revisite the case and make sure that everything was done legally and every other option was exhausted before the euthanasia could be done. This took 6 months, time which became hell for her. Instead of a sereen end with dignity and peace, it became a drawn-out torture of uncertainty which thankfully ended in a good way for her. All because of some douche who cannot accept that someone wants to end her life and that a society doesn't want to let her do it in a bad way.
The person who made the complaint made her live through the anniversary then. That's pure cruelty 😢
After your description it looks even more horrific than without it. Psychiatrists, fucking board of some bureaucrats said to the person they supposed to help "we cant do anything, so go kill yourself, but say bye to your mom first", quite literally.
It didn't end in a good way. If she wanted to commit suicide for real, she could easily do it with an enormous dose of opiates, driving out in the woods, and taking them all away from other people. There is no reason to make this process legal. When euthanasia is necessary, people should break the law against it.
"ended in a good way" - lol
@@Williamtolduso The real kicker is that I sent her to hell because she committed a sin that I cannot forgive. And I will give a bonus point for the person that made the complaint because that person enforced my bible rules.
I'm with Kyle on this one. I think believing that depression is eternal is an incredibly defeatist and sad attitude. I understand it's hard to live under those circumstances but to allow something irreversible like this to happen is inhumane and shows a lack of respect for life.
Life isn’t always good. Good things can also be irreversible
So you would force someone to live a nightmare beyond your understanding just because you respect them?
@@Cettywise it’s not even about respecting them, it’s about getting off to their alive body being around
Respect for life involves respect for dearh as well
@@Cettywise Nobody can force them. A person is free to end their life whenever they want unless they're in some kind of constant lockdown and supervision.
This is hard. As someone who's suffered from a number of psychological issues, and did attempt self termination in the past, it's kind of difficult for me to either condemn or condone this. I've had good things happen to me since that time that I would've missed out on. I'm not 'cured', I still have issues, but I'm much better at coping with them, avoiding triggers, and dealing with the bad times. On the one hand, It's hard for me to accept that a 23 year old couldn't take one more step forward to see if they could find just a tiny sliver of light at the end of the tunnel. What if? Just one more minute, one more hour, one more day...maybe things can be different. On the other hand, it's cruel to try to force someone to carry on while enduring that kind of suffering. If I would've had to deal with something like that, I seriously doubt I'd still be here.
This is Belgium, my guess is they had an extensive process to try and find a solution, but they never did. After all it all started in 2016. Their are always some people who can't recover from something. We only need to have 1 person in history to give a law a reason to exist I guess. I hope you are able to keep improving your situation.
We just need a massive investment in mental health. The problem is a lot economic systems in our world don't care for mental health except for the loss of a worker. There is no profit in it.
@@kellen5545 this is a US problem, if you want to look at it purely from a capitalism sense not a moral one. Also an other US problem is just focused to much on the short term. The benefit to society is that the worker will get back to work and the return on investment is compounded over the years like compound interest.
Right but we also need to reduce the reasons for mental health problems. There is a study that says that a person can lose up to 15 IQ points if they can't afford to pay even basic bills. We shouldn't have so many people depressed. Clearly we are doing something wrong in our societies. Look at Global warming, and the list goes on and on. We need to address fundamental issues or we will never be able to even afford or administer that much care in total. It's high time we treat the underlying condition(s) and not just put band-aids on a broken system.
@@autohmae It seems mental health in Belgium isn't free, nor covered by the government health care in any way. 70 Euro seems to be where consultations start and clearly going broke from trying to get better isn't going to help your stress or life. She might not have had full access to help as they only pay for the drugs not the possibly even more important therapy.
It’s legal in Oregon, but doesn’t actually happen often. Edit: only for terminal illness.
This one is very different, My mother just used oregon's Death with dignity law this last summer. She was riddled with cancer and suffering greatly. Likely only a month to live either way. Very different then a 23 year old with there whole life ahead of them. Everyone has bad times, some people have real bad times. But as long as you have a future it can get better. Esp at 23.
@@AndyPrimeOneim very supportive if you have something debilitating like terminal cancer and it's just the choice of should this person be a guinea pig or die as they want to. In this case it honestly seems like she could've done a lot more in her life and had choices. The thing I'd couldn't someone convince a perfectly healthy person physically and mentally be convince to come to them for suicide. Can't a normally lonely person be persuaded in a heat of the moment to go through and halfway towards death you suddenly regret like most suicide attempts.
Barely legal
I knew a guy that chose this. He suffered from ALS, and exhausted all other options.
@Andy Prime are you able to say that when you're not in their shoes?
I believe it was Emperor Constantine that declared suicide a sin. Because life was so hard for the serfs that they were jumping off cliffs to get to heaven and royalty was starving because there weren’t enough serfs to tend to their food needs.
Id rather die in a lab than risk someone finding me and being traumatized for life. I dont think anyone should be made to suffer. The world sucks and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to be in it.
Forcing people to live a life they hate that they are powerless to change is torture, full stop. No one should have the right to force you to live if every day is going to be a nightmare experience for you.
Sorry but you lost me. Where in this conversation did anyone say anything about forcing you to live?
@@danaaronmusic when someone is living in pain, and you tell them "you're not allowed to die", you are telling them "you need to continue living agony". There comes a point where those are the only two options in some cases and taking away one of them is exactly equivalent to forcing the choice of the other.
@@LordMajicus Again, no one said anything about forcing you to live or not allowing you to die. You have every right to end your life if that is your choice. The matter in question here is whether a physician has the right to euthanize you.
"Would she come to regret that?"
I'm gonna say no
Life is also too precious to live in anguish that you cannot control and to live only because someone who has not experienced this tells you that you have to live.
This sounds more like doing something in spite of people telling you that you shouldn't than it is about having "freedom" to do it. Nobody can forbid you in taking your own life, but that doesn't mean that other people should help you in that process.
I've never seen the life is precious argument used like this but you know what you're right. Most people say life is precious so ban physician suicide, but life is precious so why are you going to force someone to suffer longer than they need to?
@@obscureorca going by your logic, is the seller at fault or did they “help” the buyer who ended up killing themselves with the gun they bought?
@@leonxl There are a lot of other uses for a gun, and the most common is actually preserving your own life. So no, it's not the sellers fault that he sells the gun to someone he doesn't know is going to commit suicide. With assisted euthanasia that is the whole purpose, so your logic is totally false.
When severely depressed just waking up and getting up to use the restroom or eat can be exhausting. I'm assuming she didn't have to work a job if she had such severe mental decline and she had housing and food benefits/assistance. In the States if you're this depressed you still have to work to afford outrageous housing costs or fight to get assistance. It's hard to call that living. I'm sad that she felt this was her only way to peace but I'm glad she had the choice. I'm hopeful for the future of mental health care in the world, we've made some good strides in the US in the past 30yrs. We need to take care of each other.
Someone suffering from PTSD and depression, is NOT fit to make a choice like this. This is legalized murder.
Assisted suicide may be less traumatic for a person's loved ones than a loved one finding a hanging body in the bedroom. They may get to talk it out at least and get affairs in order. Perhaps find a way to determine if they're suicidally depressed before Killin em...maybe set it up so they have to push the kill button themselves if they're ready to go so the Dr doesn't have to carry that guilt.
@Dan Reiser This is very true, and mental health in particular should disqualify you from making that choice, because by definition if someone is mentally Ill how do they really have the mental reasoning to make a right choice? A perfect example of this was my dad, he was very sick in the hospital from heart failure, he hadn't slept in 4 days, he got to the point where he completely gave up, said he wanted to die and didn't want treatment anymore. My sister immediately jumped on the side of him, as if that was his "choice" and we should respect it. I got pretty angry, pointing out that he was delirious, and was in no mental state to make such a choice in the first place. Lo and behold he finally slept and didn't want to die the next day..
I agree 1,000,000% with Krystal. Kyle why are people attempting suicide? Not just because they want to, but because living feels so unbearable that they would rather die. Capitalism plays a major role in people's depression/ pain
What infuriates me about this case is that her death was originally planned for march 20th, two days before the anniversary of the Brussels attacks. But due to an anonymous complaint (probably some religious group) at the last moment it got delayed for another 2 months.
She had planned out everything she still wanted to do and the people she still wanted to meet. After she had done all that, saying goodbye to everyone she knew, she was forced to spent another 2 months suffering her illness and ended up blocking herself off from the outside world.
That infuriates you? Grow up. What she did was wrong, no matter her excuse. She could have done it herself if she was truly serious about it. Seeing a terrible thing is no reason to kill yourself though, why was this ever approved?
If your brain is suffering, it’s also physical pain. People severally downplay mental pain comparing it to “physical pain” or injuries.
I don't know about this. She's was 23. There is seemingly so much growth potential for a person this young. At that age I had a friend who had to drop out of school and couldn't leave her home due to mental health issues. She somehow grew up, met the love of her life and found meaning. Time heals a lot. Things change and get better.
It’s crazy this is even a debate lol i can’t believe what I’m hearing
@@gregorypalmer4909 I agree
it’s sick people think it’s ok to force others to live
@@kenetickups6146 I'm forcing myself to live.
@@kenetickups6146 Heh. I think outside of terminal illness it shouldn't happen. I don't believe a person that wants to kill themselves due to psychological issues can consent to their own death, even at their own hand. Also by that logic why even try to help anyone who wants to kill themselves ever? That argument doesn't work.
I'd rather the argument be that after the situation has been assessed, it has been concluded that the person will kill themselves regardless, and doing it medically would be better. Or something about it reducing non medically assisted suicides and making people flock to a process that involves them actually getting mental healthcare first.
The simple argument of "not forcing people to live" is stupid, because it removes any reason for trying to help any suicidal people ever, and ignores the fact that a mind that wants to kill themselves is so unhealthy that it probably can't consent to that.
The only exception to this is painful terminal illness, since the mind isn't an issue here, and death will arrive anyway, the subject will just go through more pain.
no...things dont get better....
As a physically and mentally disabled and mentally ill person and has attempted suicide thrice I feel like doctors especially in the psychology field, these doctors do not know enough about what it’s like to actually live through these things everyday and do not listen to or believe their patients properly compared to doctors that do experience these things. It took me switching doctors twice for a doctor to decide to take my chronic physical and mental pain seriously and one I knew my entire life did not care. I think the place medicine and societal empathy is at now is not ready for something as misunderstood to make a decision like this yet.
The amount of time it takes for a doctor to not only believe you are in fact experiencing something for them to think you’re not trying to get drugs for free on top of “the average time to get something diagnosed 7 years” is is enough alone for me to believe we just aren’t ready on a systemwide euthanasia option for mental illnesses.
Also it is not uncommon for illnesses aren’t realized to be misidentified, and subsequently mistreated, until the autopsy. While we are far along medically from our past, we are not as far along as we like to believe we are
Trying all the psychedelics should be a requirement first 🍄 If they can't help, let them go through with their choice.
PREACH!!!!!!!
To even require for euthanasia means you have to have tried basically every option that is available
@@theonewhoweeps5118 not sure if psychedelics are something can't people consider. They would also need to do it in a medical setting because giving psychadelics to someone on the edge isn't always a great idea .especally by yourself
@@somethingginterestingg4275 treatment with psychedelics is rare in Europe (it’s still very much in a research phase) but when it’s done here under guidance of medical professionals
@@somethingginterestingg4275 Anyone that does psychedelics knows they do in fact work in treating mental illnesses. War on Drugs says otherwise.
The problem I have, at least in America, is that mental health care is obscenely expensive so forcing people to go through years of treatment first is impossible. For example one of my medications costs 1300 a month without insurance. Then you have to add on the fact that most mental health medications have severe side effects and withdrawal symptoms and I just can’t support putting people through that if they don’t want to.
As someone who’s battled with wanting to end things since my preteen years, I wish I would just be allowed to do it already. I’ve had years of therapy and medication, and it just doesn’t help.
Legal euthanasia is important because it’s actually fairly hard to end things. Survival instinct is incredibly annoying, and fast/painless methods are usually complicated, expensive, or risk jail time. If you fail, you put loved ones through extra grief and worry, plus you’ll probably get slapped with insane medical bills. Oh and you could also wind up a vegetable in worst case scenarios.
It will discourage people from killing themselves outside of a medical setting and will get people to be more open about when they are suicidal, and for those who can't be helped they deserve to make that choice to exist for themselves
Nope society shouldn't send signals to a suicidal person it's ok to kill themselves, it'll lessen the gravity of doing so. If you allow for something legally or socially, people are gonna do it more, and if something's normalized people are gonna care less about it. That's just goes for human behavior in general.
Also if you have people who's job is to assist suicide, you've created an incentive sturcture for it to keep happening and a class of people where assiting suicide will just be another day at the office.
The issue is what it it becomes a systematic answer to life struggles, and assisted suicide makes suicides in general go through the roof. I guess we will see based on what the stats say out of places like Switzerland
@@maisa5943 Suicide rates in Switzerland are considerably lower than they are in the US. And assisted suicide has been legal there for long enough we don't need to wait for stats to gauge the effects.
I wonder if by "terminal illness", Krystal and/or Kyle would consider Alzheimer's in that category? My personal opinion is "hell yes" after watching what my father has been going through, and by extension, my mother. His entire family died of Alzheimer's and I myself have a statistically much higher chance of developing this horrific disease. My hope is by the time I would get it, we would have options here in the US to checkout on our own terms, with help. Otherwise, I can't see riding that sh*t into the ground. There's just no good reason to do so.
Most everyone who has been affected by a family member with severe cognitive issues that I've talked to has openly acknowledged that they want to end their lives while they can still mostly function because it's so brutal on family/caregivers when the disease gets to a certain point.
100%. My grandmother went through the same thing. Every day she said she wanted to die. When she did, I was so happy for her. She was miserable the last 2yrs of her life.
I think anyone who has experience with Alzheimer's sufferers has similar views. The thought of eventually developing the disease is simply the greatest fear throughout the lives of children or relatives of Alzheimer's sufferers. It seems a no brainer to me that people should be allowed check out with dignity once they cease to be able to function normally and live independently.
The problem with placing Alzheimers in this category is that the person, by definition, is not of sound mind. Unfortunately, that makes it difficult if not impossible for them to make such a profound decision with absolute clarity.
@@dlg5485 Well, that's not the definition. Alzheimer's disease has many levels to it, and someone in the early stages is very different from someone in the late stages. I would just remove this arbitrary requirement altogether and make it a right for that person, regardless of what you think of their mental capability, because it really does not matter on its own.
Being in this existence is overrated. We do that because we have biologically driven, self preservation instincts and we don't really know what's after death, if there's anything at all and that makes and that makes us afraid. We need to get over those things and let people who want off the train early to get off mercifully and with dignity and when they want to.
I live with my past out of spite. But that’s not for everyone. I’m glad she was able to find peace somehow.
just said this in therapy yesterday. surviving off spite.
There's no peace in death. Ur dead. No consciousness exists
If someone has been suffering non-stop for years and nothing has changed then why not? Would you rather have them suffer constantly for another 50+ years??
I think what Kyle is getting at is that depression may cause someone to want to end their own life, but that feeling may eventually be defeated (and frequently is) through treatment rather than suicide, and obviously we should make sure that people have been given every treatment to try defeating depression through treatment before offering euthanasia as an option.
Yeah that's what I'm most curious about: is suicidal ideation a symptom OF severe depression, or is it more of a rational, lucid desire BASED on how awful it is to live with severe depression? Depressed/traumatized people who are like "Why do I keep having thoughts and desires to kill myself?? It doesn't make sense!" probably should be targeted with treatment, because the ideation is clearly a delusional symptom of the illness. But those who are like "I'm constantly sad, numb, stuck in negative thoughts, have no joy or interest or passion or motivation or hope anymore, and none of the treatments have helped. I'd rather die than keep living like this for the rest of my days" -- those people should be given this freedom to choose death.
@@Dwafiz Interesting view, but I don't see the point. Why not just unilaterally give everyone the right to euthanasia instead of barring them based on hard-to-measure or abitrary logic? I don't think, given the chance, that most would go through with it as they would reconsider and postpone their decision.
Sure. You just have to be careful that you don't make the hoops too much to jump through. Like republicans with abortion, at a certain point you're not actually trying to help by making a woman sit down with a doctor and have the doctor try to talk her out of abortion. You're just trying to limit abortions because you don't like abortions, not because you're actually trying to do what is best for someone.
Really, our society needs to address the things that cause people to want to kill themselves. The capitalist rat race in this country is very depressing. 90% of the population is not really allowed to have any meaning to their lives aside from supporting the system of wealth so that a few people can live in extravagance.
If we're willing to provide for someone's basic needs such as food, shelter, and medical care, after we've been willing to go that far to support them, then I think we can have a conversation about how they "owe" us the responsibility to consider options other than suicide. But as long as we've got this "you're on your own" mentality about everything, nobody owes us anything. If we don't provide anything, they don't owe us anything, and that includes their life. Their life should be theirs to do with as they please. They don't even "owe" us the time to listen to us trying to talk them into living until we're willing to provide them with free mental health counselling.
I was hospitalized for depression once, and afterwards I went and got a copy of my records from the hospital. I remember that the doctor wrote in my file that the hospitalization would only make my depression worse, since the medical bill was only going to add to my problems and make my situation more dire and depressing. That didn't stop them from charging me $18,000 dollars for my stay, though.
Lol. "Given" treatment like psych treatment is free and not a business to make money. First society has to actually value human life and human dignity more than the almighty dollar. Never gonna happen.
I agree but unfortunately treatment is gatekept. I have friends who have endured so much pain because they cannot afford a doctor who cares to treat them properly. I can afford to pay for slightly better treatment but it’s only marginally better at the cost of hundreds of dollars every two months. I don’t blame anyone who is suffering greater than me who, at this present lack of good mental health and access to it, would rather die.
We should never legalize suicide, ever.
Good for her to have her choice, when years of treatments do not work then this was her choice. Mental pain is equal to physical pain.
There are rules and it often requires further testing and or treatments.
Mental pain can arguably be worse imo
@@dontforgettolike7127 I'm 28 years old and I've been depressed for around 15 years. Yeah, it's bad and I have other mental conditions on top of that. Can't wait until I can end my life legally via Exit Switzerland here, just need to wait 2 more years.
@@YunoGasai414 please get help
@@YunoGasai414 It is sad that in-spite of all the treatments that for some they do not work. I hope on the next two years you can find some peace and effective treatments.
@@YunoGasai414 what Peter said. Also, stay away from Yuki.
I didnt choose to be born, I didnt choose to be here, so I sure as hell should be able to choose to leave at any time I want. I'm not government property, they cant force me to exist.
Imagine living in a shitty society and not even being allowed to die. What kind of hell on earth is that?
i am 100% in favour of this. if you are willing to jump through all the hoops placed in front of you because you want to die that badly, it is what is. i think you should have the right to do that. they're probably going to do it anyway, in a much more painful way with a lower chance of success if you tell them no.
Is it free?
Euthanasia because you WITNESSED a tragedy but SURVIVED?? She was LUCKY and now her life is a GIFT and taking her own life is a big eff you to all of the people who died. I am an atheist but a small part of me wants to believe the Catholics when they say that suicide death leads to Hell.
@@Zurround brother, no. She was traumatized and probably relived the event thousands of times. After reliving watching dozens of other people die over and over again, she didn't want to go through it anymore. It seems very understandable to me.
@@Zurround That's a pretty fucking disgusting way of looking at the world.
@@Fleezblarp Um... THERAPY?? Maybe even including GROUP therapy for trauma victims? If I had been the euthanasia doctor I would have ONLY given her a drug to cause REGULAR sleep and then when she wakes up I would have a long talk with her to convince her the importance of life. I might even lose my job but some day she would be grateful to me for that.
I’ve been watching both of y’all for a while, and I just need to say, I love your discussions. You both have honest, we’ll thought out positions. Plus you argue them in good faith and really listen to each other. It’s just super refreshing compared to the garbage discussions I see in other media
I know this probably won’t get read, but I really do appreciate y’all Krystal, Kyle, and Friends cast and crew. Ya’ll have my Substack subscription. ❤
The best times of my life were between '04 and '05. Now that they're gone and the people I looked up to aren't in my life anymore, I can't find a reason to continue. It's hard, man.
My Grandmother also died of a morphine overdose back in 1978 with the help of a sympathetic doctor. I think it still happens more then most people suspect.
She went gently. Her doctor cared for her.
There is an ethical and deeply moral stance that doctors take agaisnt the law.
They take the hippocratic oath which includes "to do no harm".
The doctor probably saw your grandma suffering and would not allow her to be harmed by that pain any longer so they used the morphine to take the pain from their patent.
@@theodorebear6714 put it perfectly. Many families don't know the realities of what the suffering like the people who actually do the work to care for their sick loved ones. Families like to believe they're doing good by keeping their suffering loved ones alive. Its super selfish.
The critical question is whether the person is mentally in a position to make a rational choice. For people with depression and similar psychiatric illnesses it is too dangerous to allow them to decide since the disease may be variable in its expression and some relief may be possible and their ability to make rational decisions is reduced. The position of someone who has Motor Neurone Disease or other terminal and incurable somatic illness is very different and if their competence to make decisions is not questionable then it is hard to argue against assisted dying.
Very important point.
Over a certain period of time in my life, the only reason I didn’t follow through was out of the fear that I wouldn’t be successful & then bound to a nursing home, essentially a vegetable from injuring myself.
Do I still have the desire now? No. Do I regret feeling that way or scared about thinking how close I was? Absolutely not.
The pain and isolation is not something I’d wish on worst enemy. This is 1000% a good idea.
I’m 28 and I feel that way now. I’ve suffered with mental illness since I was a child and it’s only gotten worse. The Only thing that has stopped me is not finding A way of doing it fast and painlessly. I can’t imagine getting over this feeling since I’ve felt it my whole life but I’m happy to hear that you don’t feel that way anymore. Hope it keeps getting bette for you and thank you for sharing your story ❤
@@Emmiiii267 all my love to you Emily. I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
@@Emmiiii267 if I’m allowed to share a little more…while life/my MH now is far from perfect, the silver lining that comes from being so low, you basically lose your fear of death, or better to say your attachment to life and worldly things. They lose importance as your perspective shifts. Especially if you’re a trauma survivor, with the right support and path forward of you’re own choosing (I say with time, support and action), you begin to get a true sense of your own power. And if you’re detached from those two inherent human weaknesses (fear and desire) it puts you in a pretty good position to tackle life’s challenges.
We send a message we don't value lives by the wages paid and by the Healthcare system Kyle. People are just resources to be exploited, not valued or revered in this country.
Wait, I thought it was well understood that America doesn't value human life at all. Does anyone really think otherwise?
They care about fetuses, but not babies, children, men nor women. Only fetuses and clump of cells after conception.
Pre-born they will protect you. Pre-school you are f**ked.
its her choice, no one else's decision
If someone doesn't wanna be here it's their choice not to be here anymore. It feels completely wrong to me to try to keep someone here who thinks life is basically hell.
Are you one of those people who would not talk a person off a ledge but just keep walking right on by? There is nothing authoritarian in trying to prevent damaged individuals from hurting themselves, in fact as a society we owe it to these people.
Krystal was saying “maybe she should have been kept alive if she has kids.” So a woman’s life is more valuable when she’s a mother? And we are to just place our trust in doctors to make these kinds of moral calculations? There are many problems with this line of thinking. It’s not as clear cut as many pretend and I think Kyle’s take here shows maturity
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Never said I wouldn't try to talk somebody out of it, just that it shouldn't be illegal. As in law. Sure if your friend's depressed you should try to make them feel better. And yeah if somebody has kids it obviously has a deeper dimension..... although at the same time forcing a suicidally depressed parent to raise kids probably wouldn't result in a particularly good outcome either.
@@darkpark6531 But talking someone down from a ledge would be “trying to keep someone here who thinks their life is hell.” And I don’t see anything wrong with that. And the law in question is “physician assisted,” which involves an outside party, a doctor, in the subject’s death… not just the subject themself. So an even more appropriate analogy would be a depressed person holding a needle full of fentanyl asking for your assistance. I think in many cases, it OUGHT to be illegal to “help” a mentally distressed person in this way. It’s not correct to frame this issue as purely one of personal liberty… there’s a lot of other ethical considerations here. That’s all I’m saying
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Obviously I wasn't referring to 'talking someone down from a ledge'. I'm talking about physician-assisted suicide. The key thing to diagnose with a suicidal person is whether they're experiencing ideation or intent. Most of the time it's ideation and any psychiatrist worth their salt will be able to see that.
My body, my choice.
I do not respect other peoples attempts to tell me when and how I determine my life will end. As someone who struggles every day with bipolar depression, it is a deeply intense and personal choice, and while many will say its cruel to remove oneself from their lives, its also cruel to demand someone who is suffering every day to continue to do so just so that they can delay the feeling of loss. I live, because I choose to. Maybe one day that wont be the case. But it will ultimately be my choice, not my families, not my friends, not some imaginary god creatures, not the laws. Mine.
You have your head up your ass stupid. Asking someone to legally kill you is a world apart from killing yourself. No you do not at all have a right to force someone else to kill you. That is not a right.
I am sorry that you feel so entitled, that is the reason you want to die, because you have never struggled to achieve anything in your pathetic short life. Work really hard on something that feeds your soul, it will give you meaning in your miserable little life
Depression has no cure... this should be legalized all around the world...
Imagine thinking someone else shouldn't have the right to die on their own terms.
What if it was your teenager?
@@shelleycline3542 I'm sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't including the age group that we've collectively decided isn't capable of making life-changing decisions.
As a depressive person myself, I think everyone should have the right to end their lives. I don't care what you think if you're not depressive and you don't suffer from mental health yourself, you have no right to tell us what we can do with our lives. Freedom is freedom, in life and death.
There is no mind/body dichotomy: it is a self-reflective system with very real permanent scarring throughout. Recovery is a question of contextualization, which is a function of the extrinsic qualities of life.
Would it have been possible for her to recover? The chance was not zero. Is our world conducive for it? I don't believe so. Is the world likely to get worse? Yes. The pain you comprehend is the pain you've experienced and, unfortunately (or fortunately?), it can have a compounding effect with empathy.
Throwing up barriers for people with major or suicidal depression will achieve nothing but making the last days of their life even more miserable.
If you want to stop living there is very little that can be done to stop it, so the real question is should you be allowed to get medical help in doing so or should you do it yourself in a less humane way.
I don't think you should, for mental health issues.
This is exactly my view too. If somebody has been through all the prescribed treatments, explored unconventional treatments and they remain resolute in wanting to die, then they'll almost certainly find a way to do it.
I would rather the state provide an option of last resort, where the person can die in peaceful surroundings under medical supervision, rather than being alone and terrified jumping in front of an oncoming train in the dead of night.
Neither outcome is pleasant and every effort should be made to help the patient overcome the trauma which is driving them to such desperation, but if things get to a point where everyone feels as though further treatment is no longer effective, don't leave these desperate vulnerable people to face their end alone, respect their decision and the reccomendations of the doctors and help the patient to end their life with dignity.
There's plenty that can be done. I know from experience and years of research. Psychedelics and lucid dreaming are some ways people can work on their problems in healthy ways. This way people are bound to find the root of their issue and how to fix it
@@shadw4701 But what if they don't want to do it? Are you saying we don't have control over our own bodies? What is the moral basis and foundation for such a belief? Is it some bronze age bs book and god/s?
I you believe in freedom, anyone of consent should be able to check out at any time with dignity. No matter if they are 23 or 93.
Freedom isn’t freedom of all choices…
@@bobbun4369 Bullshit. As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, bullshit.
I mean... It's fucking horrible and I hate that this happened but if you are for rights and freedom... This could be a possibility that someone wants this that bad. 😞
No that's when they go to the looney pen.
@@MrDucksBill great, make her suffer even more, that will solve the problem!
@@MrDucksBill Death can be favorable to indefinite detention in a mental facility.
I get that, and I don't understand exactly how bad this woman's situation was, but I think we should consider the psychology behind suicidal behavior. Suicide is typically impulsive; it's a feeling that comes and goes for some people suffering with mental illness, but it can never be reversed once it's done. While I wouldn't want anyone to suffer such intense mental distress with no hope of recovery, do we really want to be a society that gives up on people in these circumstances if there's a chance for their recovery? To be clear, I'm absolutely in favor euthanasia as an available option in the most hopeless circumstances of terminal illness, paralysis, excruciating chronic pain, etc., but I don't know if this is the right trajectory to take if we want to say that we truly value human happiness and wellbeing.
Liberty for liberty's sake isn't a good. That's just a rabbithole to all the worst evils.
I’m legitimately angry that neither of you guys took the opportunity to say “live and let die” here
Idk....at 23 years of age? It's impossible to say she wouldn't recover some. One of the symptoms of depression is hopelessness, thinking things won't ever get better.
I agree that the age of the woman in this story does strike a certain visceral nerve, but it's ultimately a arbitrary factor in the grand scheme of things. Not unlike extreme physical trauma, there's a reasonable, analogous argument to made that sufficient psychological damage can bring an individual to conclude that ending their life and therefore suffering is the only way out.
Baring some sort of corrective breakthrough in the field of neurology/psychopharmacology that can alleviate mental anguish
@@Richie_Godsil I don’t think it’s arbitrary at all when we *know* that the prefrontal context keeps developing and hasn’t reached maturity yet up into your mid 20s. It’s also not arbitrary when we *know* that depression can come with feelings of hopelessness and it does often affect the patient’s ability to make rational decisions.
@@MsScarletwings True the brain is still developing in 20's but in the specifics context of assistant suicide, (ideally) there are professionals in different fields trying all known treatments and interventions before euthanasia is finally considered. I'm not trying to argue that we should be flippant about ending anyone's life or anything.
Unfortunately, we live in a world that doesn't provide the appropriate nor sufficient care to those in need. There is only one way to end suffering. Especially if it's a quality of life issue. I've been living with chronic pain and chronic health issues for over 20 years. Recovery is not an option. I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted from dealing with the programs I have to deal with in order to prevent myself from becoming homeless. Millions of us become collateral damage.
I don't agree with Kyle, he sounds kinda like a pro life guy on this
If someone wants to kill themselves, do it got them or they might hurt others in the process
Legalize assisted suicide, but make it a process where you have to exhaust every option first
I don't care if people wanna off themselves, let them do it
You can't know what it's like being in someone else's head
I also don't care if someone wants to kill their unborn baby, do what you want, life isn't as precious as you wanna think, we are all just organs of the same being, and if one is failing, cut it out and move on (assuming we have some organ redundancy lol)
[TRIGGER WARNING, obviously]
Here's the thing, Kyle. If a person doesn't want to be here anymore, why should they be forced to either live despite not wanting to or kill themselves in some horrible way? Do you know of any safe, effective, humane ways for a person to do that? No? Then how about thinking about the horrific suicides we have every year already instead of what we might have. Allowing assisted suicide would prevent cruel deaths which is humane, yes?
I've wanted to go for the past few years. It's my life. I'm the one who's lived it. I'm the one who's suffered daily from many physical ailments, which includes severe pain, and mental illness. I'm 51 and my illnesses are getting worse, pain getting worse. Who else has the right to decide when I die? I wish there were a "suicide kit" that we could buy (though being poor i probably couldn't afford it🤣).
Yes. The horrors and risks of attempting suicide force many of us to stay here when there's no humane options but I never thought that would be your opinion, Kyle. What is a bigger freedom than being allowed to choose when you're done? Or do you think we should be forced to keep running in the hamster wheel making money for the rich küntz and living lives of indentured servitude where we increasingly can't put food on the table, buy clothes to wear, afford housing, etc.
Here. I want you to actually try to imagine one of these things happening to you. How it would feel and what you'd experience physically as you're dying. Also remember the percentage chance that you'll fail and live a worse life lying in a bed for decades having your diaper changed, not being able to scratch that itch and being unable to order food that you actually like (yes I've thought too much about this).
- hanging (noose)/suffocation
- stabbing
- shooting
- cutting wrist/throat
- taking a load of pills/chemicals
- running in front of a vehicle (which traumatizes other people too, so no!)
- drowning
- fire
- choking
For those who disagree with my opinion: It's mine, not yours. Don't worry. I'm not gonna try to force it on you. One of the things that makes the world beautiful is lovely variety including opinions. 🤍🫂🥰
This is just sad... I am left speechless. The girl deserved more love and happiness in her life !!😔
@@aandreya " Deadwish occures, when the wish of knowing what will happen next, disappears. "
You can't even spell, let alone make a valid claim supported by empirical data. Stop making things up
@@aandreya So when does this Deadwish start for me ? And the only Deadwish I know is a 2018 American vigilante action thriller. I can't seem to find deadwish anywhere. Can you link a citation ? thanks.
@@aandreya "Deadwish occures, when the wish of knowing what will happen next, disappears"
Are you some sort of religious nut ?
She is not longer suffering, it was the only path she felt she had to get there.
@@sharper68 Furthermore ... People in our society that are meant to evaluate people to avoid clear "mistakes" caused by definitive & simple side effects from some other issue ... have indeed evaluated her so what else is there left to say ...
I don't think suicide is unreasonable after very deliberate, careful thought and consideration.
I’m sad that she was in a position that she felt suicide was her only option but I respect her decision. We shouldn’t stigmatize it. The pain of mental illness is sometimes too great to keep asking the sufferers to endure.
@Dan Reiser I think it's more selfish that you expect people to live for your sake when they are in great pain and have no will to exist. People don't owe you anything. If someone wants to die, they're not selfish. Dying is no more "selfish" than living.
@Dan Reiser You obviously have a lot of anger and personal grievances surrounding the topic that causes you to hate and dehumanize suicidal people. I pity you and can't engage with someone like you who has such a shallow view.
Every case of euthanasia for psychological reasons should be sad, but the blame should be on society at large for failing someone so much.
Cycles of trauma. Fix the cycle, fix society.
I’ve been struggling with mental illness my entire life. I’m 28 now and it’s only gotten worse. I’m at a low where I’ve been thinking about committing suicide because I’ve tried everything and I haven’t been able to get better. It’s truly hard to describe what it’s like to live a life where you feel like you live in your own personal hell and your body and mind is against you. And people telling me I’m not alone doesn’t help. Very few things keep me around but I think the fact that I don’t have an easy access to end my life in a painless way is one of them. I completely understand the want to end ones life. I think we should we all have that choice
I don’t have social media. I take daily walks and I don’t masterbate and watch porn. I have PTSD , depersonalization/derealization and severe depression. I don’t feel connected to myself or the world around me because of it. Regular therapy isn’t helpful and neither is the things u suggested as I tried them already as their common suggestions. I just think my cocktail of mental illness makes it harder to “fix” with simple stuff like that. I can’t even go out with friends and family without having a panic attack and shutting down. But thank you anyways for your reply and suggestions. Hope you’re doing well
@lessago I know you mean well but these types of responds really minimize the state in which mental illness leaves us in
@@Emmiiii267 Your kindness came through in your reply. You took care to explain yourself well and expressed gratitude at the end. It sounds like you face difficult challenges. All the best.
Have you tried DMT??
For me being able to have power over your own live is the most fundamental freedom. If you cannot choose to tap out, what can you choose? I dont want to imprison people in their own bodies.
being forced to live when you don't want to is the worst torture I can think of
I could think of some worse torture... but I see your point.
Unless you're locked down under constant supervision then nobody can force you to live
@@WhiteTransAreOppressed No one asks to be born either.
Nobody is forcing anyone to live, stop projecting the responsibility people have for their own lives onto other people.
One way or another… life is messy. For example, cancer doesn’t care about your plans, family or ideals. Suicide is a personal choice and if it is destigmatized and people are thinking about it, they may feel comfortable talking about their problems knowing they won’t get locked up and that may change their mind. And to Kyle’s concern of life being seen as unimportant, I think watching the news it is apparent every day that that is the case. We are told how precious life is and we see people are treated like trash
This should absolutely be a right. Society has no right to compel others to live. If they are miserable in this world, in this society, for whatever reason, we have no right to tell them they have to go on with it. For example, if there's a gay person who is hated and despised by most and society and has spent their entire life in social isolation, has no family, no chance at a normal life, they have a right to leave if they want to.
I chuckled when Krystal said, "might she come to regret it?" Umm...
Why umm?
Perhaps she meant like right before they administer it.
@@JoeLancaster dog you can't regret anything when you're dead. You're dead.
@@vinny9868 I assume she was speaking in abstract. Like would she have come to regret a decision had she not made it. Kinda like how some people who attempt suicide but fail, end up regretting making the decision to kill themselves later in life.
Suicides survivors usely regret trying to off them selfs
It is very arrogant to impose your will on someone who wants to check out. It is not your business to interfere in someone's decision to check out of this hotel. You have no idea what they are feeling and it is their decision. Just like telling an honest citizen living in the ghetto, they can't have a semi-automatic weapon to defend themselves while politicians and the wealthy class have the best security money can buy. You can't have people tell you what to do because they have an idealism that is totally irrelevant to someone else's situation. What tyranny, and despotism to even entertain that you have the right to make it so hard for someone who has already agonized for who knows how long before they came to this point. Philosophically, I may just have a more positive outlook and relaxed attitude toward letting go. Mind your own business. We live in a dystopian wasteland, to begin with, and there are many reasons why someone might not care to continue. My favorite is pro-lifers. Their faux care for the child stops after birth. They do nothing to create a better infrastructure for poor and disenfranchised children in this country born into nightmare landscapes. They even vote against school lunches, daycare assistance, living wages, and affordable healthcare. The bastards even vote to defund PBS and Big Bird.
This video reminds me why I love Kyle so much. Outside of politics I just always felt Kyle is such a good person. He truly an empathetic person who seems to just what to help people live a good life. I remember when he also said that he didn’t care If he worked a regular job and had some of his taxes go to people to just have a certain amount of money go to people that just wanna live and do nothing. Like he didn’t care this was when he was talking about Andrew yang policy and people were saying too many would not work and live off the 1k
He's a real one
Kyle started banging a married women 3 kids when caught the affair was put on social media to smear it in her husband's face Kyle announced there engagement and she's not even divorced yet these are wonderful loving people I laughed my ass off reading that comment lol
Krystal and Kyle just made the argument for universal healthcare. If we as a country are pro-life, then make it easier to people to access healthcare without going bankrupt or needing to have a job.
I’m not sure how pro-life Americans are, when people are rationing life-saving insulin medication.
What upsets me most about this story is that psychedelics would likely have helped this girl immensely. Studies show psychedelics administered in a controlled clinical setting are very effective in helping patients process traumatic events. But I doubt such an option was even presented to her because psychedelics aren't legal in Belgium. When society says it would rather put you to death than bend the rules slightly to potentially save you, that most definitely is "the wrong message".
I have childhood ptsd. That is not rational thinking. I recommend a therapist that treats ptsd specifically. Not a pshcologist or a psychiatrist. They all have their place but ptsd therapy is a different treatment.
I think the area where this becomes troubling is in situations where the patient lacks/loses mental capacity (e.g. as a result of a severe illness) and others (e.g. healthcare professionals, family members, advocates) make the decision on their behalf and arrive at the conclusion that assisted death is in the patient's best interest. Provided there are major restrictions / safeguards around this, I can see a reasonable rationale for having assisted dying be legal, potentially even as far as for people with severe mental illness.
I have Chornic pain from my TMJ disease. I have 7 brothers and sisters and they all hate me. They think I'm pretending or I should just get over it and live a normal life. My dad hates me because I'm weak and I ask for help. All i have is my mother. When she passes I am going to move to one of these countries so I can end my life with dignity instead what I fear will be a horrific event.
Me too and I have spinal stenosis and I have some sort of autoimmune thing and ringing tinitus but dude I can get stoned and still have fun at home even if I can't go out much anymore.
@@thealternative9580 I was able to find a strain that works with my disease instead of making it work like 99% of strains do. My disease is invisible even though it affects almost every bit of my life. I'm so glad cannabis helps you my man. It truly is a gift from the gods.
As someone who lives with depression I’m completely with Krystal. I’m “lucky” that my depression has not been worse than passive suicidal ideation. I know people who live every day suffering and sometimes the way to empower yourself is to take control and end it. I can’t stand paternalism for depressed folks.
Psilocybin / mdma therapy first. I referered Veterens with ptsd to participate in the MAPS trials and it completely changed their lives.
I’m confused how can you legalize suicide? Like what are they gonna do, arrest my corpse?
Physician assisted suicide is what gets legalized, not suicide in general.
It’s basically a “humane” way for Dr.’s to end your life legally. It’s for those who are actually going to commit suicide at home, off a bridge, cliff, street drugs or gun. This will also save people like family members, neighbors, any citizens from finding body and get their trauma. Then you got emergency personal responding to go out to retrieve and investigations to make sure it’s a suicide. It would be for those with basically terminal mental issues that will lead to their successful suicide.
In ancient times it used to be illegal enforced through some religious idea.
I support it as well, it should be regulated of course. I’m someone who struggles with CPTSD and have had attempts at taking my life, I feel so conflicted about letting people like me end themselves like that. If you are still here after attempting, you’re here for a reason ❤ at least try to get help before saying f it all
Severe depression and anxiety, is not something that you one day think or switch off. The mental pain,i believe in some instances is as worse as physical pain. The logical thought process dwindles and goes out the window, even when you think you should be able to logically reason with all facets of life. Suicide isn't just willy nilly. The mind is so complex and manipulable by our own minds, it cam create and existential prison in your mind. This is sad. I appreciated both takes from Kyle and Krystal.
As doom and gloom as it sounds, the fact that there are govt assisted suicide programs around the world, gives me hope that when I wanna go, I can go with dignity as opposed to being riddled with disease in old age
Well if you actually gave a sh*t about your life, you would live it in a way right now that severely lowered the chances of you being diseased and sick in old age, but you don't really care about that do you?
Her body, her choice!
Here in the Netherlands euthenasia has been legal for a few decades now but can be a difficult and lengthy procedure, not something that can be decided on a whim. It's about the same in Belgium. Basic rule is that there has to be needless physical or mental suffering without any prospect of possible improvement in the future. Several doctors will get involved, the family is consulted, forms have to be filled out, etc. Basically you are preventing people from needless suffering untill they die of old age, which would be very cruel. Last year 7,666 euthenasia requests were granted, on a total population of over 17 million that is about 0.04%. If your government provides good healthcare and takes good care of it's citizens there is no need to be afraid that it will become a high percentage.
None of us had a say in our creation. We're all thrown into this forced fight for survival. Maybe not all wish to partake for the long haul. For that reason alone, everyone should be able to dictate the pace of their life/death. Doctors are uncomfortable by it? Find a new profession. Helping people doesn't necessitate forcing your world view onto someone. YOU like living? Good for YOU. It's ME we're talking about here.
I'm with Krystal on this one. The person who feels the pain and suffering is the only one who can truly understand them, and maybe sometimes it might be felt as a terminal illness. An illness that nobody can see, but is so severe that calls for a devastating end. We cannot tell that person what to do with their life, because we do not know what they are going through. This subject should be studied more deeply. This story is extremely sad.
Disagree. We don’t have that level of understanding/control over our own minds. Have you never felt extreme emotions only for them to go away with time, and then you wonder why you felt them in the first place?
@@gurvirsingh7964 You said it yourself, the key is if they go away with time. What if they don't and your emotional, physical, and mental strength are not able to hold it. We do not know enough.
Existence can be brutal and unfair. If one is to have dominion over their own person that should include the choice to opt out of existence so long as all alternatives have been exhausted.
It's their own life.
They can do with it as they please.
Just don't physically hurt anyone else on your way out.
What about mentally hurting people on the way out? How does the phenomena of suicide contagion factor into this?
emotional pay can be just as damaging and exhausting as physical pain. if you've tried to get help, and nothing is working, would you really want to live the rest of your life permanently depressed?
Thank you American Israeli and Saudi government for making isis
This sounds like a storyline out of HBO’s The Leftovers, an apocalyptic post rapture drama series. They were undergoing societal collapse and it feels like the real world becomes more and more dystopian daily.
My aspergers syndrome makes me believe that PAS should be allowed for cases like mine.
I’m a psychologist, and I can support this under certain conditions (psych eval, physician support, etc).
Before they consider euthanasia they should give therapy to the person first which is why this can never be legal in the US
One of the benefits of a legal process would be very similar to legal drug use sites. People who come there can also seek treatment and access resources. In the same way, if people could come in to apply for assisted suicide, that would get them started in a process for help options and treatment. They would have to make it all the way through a screening process and series of efforts to save them before the suicide could be approved. I can see a benefit there, even if it seems crazy, but if people wanting to die can actually legally go somewhere and ask for it, that can get them in touch with the resources they need. If they just do it themselves instead, they never have that touch point to get help.
You either have a right to your own body or you don't. I believe we have the ultimate say if we don't want to live anymore for whatever reason. We never made the choice to be brought into this world, but I believe we should have the right to leave it when we want.
Everyone deserves the right to take they're own life safely, you could never convince me that anyone has the right to tell someone that their struggle isn't enough to want out
Nope.
No, Kyle, we DO value life -- which includes people's right to do what they want with their OWN life.
sometimes even people with depression dont understand why someone would choose to not want to exist anymore. To be honest I personally hope and pray that less and less people relate to that feeling. I think the lack of knowledge of mental illness and the fact that we're no the ones experiencing those sensations makes us not understand how bad mental illness can be. Mental ilness also appear in physcial form. Just think of a time where youve always felt intense fear and sadness and the relief you felt when you got out of that situation. Many peoples brain get damage by trauma where they are in a constant state of flight or fight response, their brain quite literally just categorizes everything as a threat and you constantly feel the sensations of fears and sadness, peoples brain literraly shut off a part of itself and you also get sensations of feelings like your fake and everything around you is fake (dissociation disorder) your brain really creates a hell all around you. even if you have people around you that suport you it still doesnt chnage the problem because your brain itself is already damage and people caring for you doesnt change the way your brain functions. People with PTSD and severe depression and other disorder have a brain that creates a hell for them and its isolating. The pain is a lot and theres a lot of physical symptoms that tend to always come with it too. its just a lot. I understand why someone would want to end their life when they have a brain that wont let them enjoy life the way a normal brain would.
I’ve never been happy a day in my life, and I’ll be twenty-six this month. The only reason I haven’t killed myself yet is the fear of what would happen if I’m “saved”. I don’t want to hang myself, only to be cut down after irreparable nerve damage and be paralyzed for the rest of my life. I wish I could just go to the doctor, tell them I want to die, and finally get the real help I need instead of therapy and drugs that don’t work.