Cold start old diesel dozer without starting fluid or glow plugs
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- Опубликовано: 5 дек 2019
- Starting an old diesel engine without glow plugs, intake heater or starting fluid.
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50 years ago a guy showed me how to roll up news paper or yesterdays lunch bag light it holding it up to the air intake like you showed , i was amazed how the trick worked
I am a little more impressed than the rest of the comments!!! I would have never thought of that!! Thanks for the great tip!!!
Thats amazing! Even a hair dryer would likely help too! I have a mini Ex and up here in Canada it don't like to start in the cold without being in the warm shop...
Wow! Just used this this morning to start my tractor! Awesome!! Even just used a basic lighter and it worked! Thanks man!
Awesome!
Thanks for that trick. I just bought a CAT 426 and have no power at my property yet, so this may be my situation through the winter. to answer your question... I agree with what said about compression and combustion. I was looking into what is so bad about using ether (starting fluid). It is a solvent that "cleans" all the oil off the piston rings and cylinder walls, leaving no lubrication. This can cause scratches or additional wear in the cylinder. My guess is that that one cylinder is losing compression due to this and, as Brett said, when it gets warm, the combustion relies less on compression and more on the temperature of the fuel/air mixture.
See Thermostart...
Using the Thermostart device which can be retrofitted to any diesel engine with a metal air intake...available at agricultural spares suppliers worldwide....
a small amount of diesel set on fie by the thermostart device provides the same effect...
but is all on the engine ready to be activated by a push button.....no need to take the intake apart or carry a propane torch....
YT video under thermostart....
Absolutely wonderful.
Now thats a cool trick!
If you haven't already, try checking valve clearances. It's common for the exhaust valve to become too tight, and the camshaft doesn't allow it to close soon enough, for full compression. I don't know if this engine uses hydraulic lifters, or, if the lifters are solid. increasing valve clearance (loosening) will almost always raise the compression of any 4 cycle engine, whether diesel or gasoline.
I say your correct clean the valve set. And old lazy ring that move when have heat to expand. Giving compression 👍
I agree with most replays. Clean valve steam and seat.
Also the rings 50 years old. Are expending when worm up.
Probably stuck on the cylinder. When heat given they expand.
Like you say rebuild. If do will last 100 years in your care. Mick Australia 🇦🇺
Looks like your dog wants to help, lol
She always wants to be in the center of everything I do! lol
Cold? Up here in Canada, we have 2' of snow and it was -30C or -22F just a couple of days ago. I remember as kids going to University, we would put beer into the fridge so the beer wouldn't ice up. Good video, thanks for the info. Cheers :)
Hahaha exactly. I wouldn’t even plug a machine in at 28 degrees
thank you for the advice, my car Nissan Atlas 4HF1 4334cc 3ton.. thank you
This is really amazing! Try this out on my skid steer kubota d850
Thanks! It's a good thing to know.
reaaly cool trick! thx!!!
Good video, thank you!
you answered your own question in the video. Diesel fires off of compression. As air is compressed, it gets hot, anyone with an air compressor at home should know this. The bad cylinder is not able to compress the air enough to make it hot enough to fire, by you adding heat, you're making up for the heat that that cylinder can't create on it's own. As the entire engine block warms up, there is no longer a need for the additional heat from the torch. So the short answer is, the lack of compression is what is causing your cold misfire. As for WHY that cylinder is low on compression, you'd have to dig into it to figure that out. Or maybe start with a cylinder leak down test.
Thanks for the confirmation. I’m leaning towards a burnt exhaust valve or valve sealing issue. I can hear a “hiss” on one cylinder as the engine cranks over. I’m guessing this will be the problematic cylinder.
Double check and make sure your machine doesn’t have a grid heater in the intake. I got a early 70’s case 350. Guy I bought it from said it had no heaters of any kind. But he just didn’t know if you turn the key and hold it all the way it “manually” activates the grid heater. I do that that for 20-30 seconds and she fires right up. Even in weather like you have there. If you’ve got a working amp gauge you will see the amp drawl when the grid heater is activated.
your grid heat is normally closest to the it side side of the block right where he took that elbow off fairly certain it don’t have one
Yeah it definitely does not have one. I’ve been thinking about drilling a hole in that intake elbow and installing a universal one.
@@Tomsfoolery.
See Thermostart...
Using the Thermostart device which can be retrofitted to any diesel engine with a metal air intake...available at agricultural spares suppliers worldwide....
a small amount of diesel set on fie by the thermostart device provides the same effect...
but is all on the engine ready to be activated by a push button.....no need to take the intake apart or carry a propane torch....
YT video under thermostart....
Great idea!!!
Thanks!
Nice!!!
Seems to me that one injector is blowing off at low pressure and therefore the fuel is not atomising and coming out as a solid spray which is not allowing the fuel to ignite. It will only ignite if the fuel is atomised. This points to a weakened spring in the injector or a worn needle. I think that if you get your injectors serviced and the blow off pressure checked/adjusted then you will probably be ok. I have been a trained motor vehicle technician for over 50 years. MVT 2 and have specialised on diesels for the last 20 years. Hope this info is of use to you. Paul.
Thank you for the info.
Low compression rings pistons sleves would help. Posibly injector cleaned or replaced
I can tell as you were rolling it over and not firing there was a wash of cylinder compresson excaped out the exhast. I would start with rocker adjust if OK then the head come off valve seat or bent?
Thanks! Someone else suggested the same thing. I just got a service manual for it so I'll be looking into that.
I’ll come by and rebuild it for you
It's definitely low compression causing that misfire when cold that clear up when you introduce more heat. The lower compression is too low to hit the autoignition temperature of the diesel mixture in that cylinder. Adding some more heat helps the weak compression generate enough heat and the cylinder fires. Once the motor warms up it goes away.
I agree. I suspect it’s from a valve because I hear a “whoosh” sound out the exhaust as it cranks. Almost as if it misses during cranking. If that makes sense. One cylinder doesn’t sound like the rest.
This is spot on. Likely worn rings on whole engine but worst on one cylinder
The previous owner constantly using starting fluid did that engine no favors. Run some Sea Foam through it and see if it helps. The injectors may be dirty also.
That's a damn myth. It has absolutely no ill effects on a diesel engine. You can start a diesel and literally stay it constantly into the intake and nothing happens..
@@scottbamasime4338 Not a myth, Seen the damage it causes first hand.
if you were ever around the older cummins engines, they had a glow plug and a hand operated dash mounted fuel primer connected to an injector located in the intake manifold. warm the glow plug, crank the engine, push the plunger, fuel was sprayed onto the glow plug and you built a fire in the manifold and it started. keep plunger going until engine ran on its own. nothing new.
Thumps up subscribe. Desiel only ignited under pressure and heat at the beginning. Is needed god bless
See Thermostart...
Using the Thermostart device which can be retrofitted to any diesel engine with a metal air intake...available at agricultural spares suppliers worldwide....
a small amount of diesel set on fie by the thermostart device provides the same effect...
but is all on the engine ready to be activated by a push button.....no need to take the intake apart or carry a propane torch....
YT video under thermostart....
Sounds like a bandaid to a larger problem.
@@wishusknight3009
No;
many older diesels had a Thermostart as their main starting aid... a self-contained "blow torch"
It provided warm air to encourage combustion when the ambient air was cold..as was the tractor engine from extended periods of "cold soak".
Because it was only one coil that glowed and set fire to diesel....like a large cigareete lighter....the draw on the battery was minimal compared to the 20 amps per cylinder of a normal glow plug.
Some modern diesels already have the boss for the hole for the Thermostart cast in the manifold...just not drilled and tapped.
Hey in Pakistan they use a flaming rag at the intake to do the same job.
Sometimes boiling water poured over the individual injectors and the fuel lines leading to them can heat the diesel enough to also fire off the engine in cold weather...
It could be both or one or the other. A bad injector can make the miss fire. It should mist the fuel in. Not squirt the fuel in. The low compression will also have a effect as well. It could be as simple as you have tight valves. But seeing either cans is a bad sign. It’s not so much as low lubricant, but more in the fact that it can and will break rings or scar the cylinders. It can even bend rods. That will give you bad compression.
you can tell that's flat-out Daddy's girl right there no doubt about it..🐕
Oh she sure is! She's always trying to "help" me!
A real easy fix and you will have less than $100 in the whole deal. Google thermo start, Perkins thermo start etc. It is a single glow plug that you tap a bung in the pupe right were you removed from the intake. Works off 12V and draws about 12V energized. Put a switch on your dash and then get a 12v source wire to your switch. Use a 20 amp 12V source to your relay to your glow plug. You will need to tap into your return line to your fuel tank and put a small (2-4) oz reservoir for your supply to your glow plug. Plumb your glow plug and your done. Energize your glow plug about 10-15 seconds and you will hear it pop then hit your starter. Off she will go. Many import tractors employee this as well as Perkins engines etc.
I looked that up and it sure looks like it would help get my old machine going! Thanks a bunch for that information! I appreciate it!
@@Tomsfoolery.I have put several on engines that weren't designed for them and they have really helped.
Lower compression is less heat. If you have one low cylinder the compression can not bring up the heat to the diesels flame point...but after 10 minutes, the heat from the other cylinders have leaked through enough to bring the compressed air above the ignition point.
Before that you can bring the temp above the flame ignition point with a hand held torch.
Once you have it all running, the combustion will continue to keep the piston top, cylinderwalls and head warm, and it will continue to run....as you now always will be above the self ignition heat point....and nothing will rob the charge you are compressing, from heat.
End solution...rebuid...at least a hone job and piston rings, and while the head is off...grind all valves to a point of no leak...most probably the injectors just need a clean out...that can be done on the bench., you need however know in beforehand how they are taken apart, and how they come together...its a bit of a puzzle...but not hard once you know.
If you have tools and do the job yourself....cost is gaskets, fluids and pistonrings.
So - 2 most big diesels should start without heat if they have excess fuel.
You also need heat....
either from the heat of compressing the air jsut before the diesel is injected into the cylinder....
or, if there is no heat in the block (freezing temperatures)..... by adding heat..
glow plugs,
grid heater,
thermostart "flame" in the intake manifold,
propane torch.,
flaming rag soaked in diesel held over that hole like the propane torch...
or even a hairdryer borrowed from the good lady....
Once the engine fores enough to keep running on it's own generated heat provided by the combustion events in the cylinder...you don't need the extra heat....no matter how cold it is.
Well old mechanic tricks I ques I wuld add on that special winter oil and oil pan heaters, block heaters probably fuel heater as well those winters are bitchh to over come perhaps automatic baterry chargers culd by usefull and for cick starting probably gasoline engines shuld have intake manifold draining valve for moisture some spay for corosion moisture and heat protection if evry thing ells is ok engine shuld start evry time I recomend over writing the alternator voltage charging to litel higher then usualy advancing ignition timing and preferably bypass ignition coil wire to full baterry power just on start up and preferably mode starter motor to spin faster in winter time so if that helps peopel that is recomended for gasoline engines probably fuel aditives are good idea on that shity ethanol fuel probably peopel shuld use moisture/air seperators because ethanol absorbes moisture it can by a pain in the ass starting those engines a heat gun is nice thing to have ore periodicaly use a induction motor and magnets to let engine by warm there are many way's but aperantly a torch is effective as well nice video thank you for info 👍
That is not really how a diesel works. The piston compresses the air in the cylinder and then it fires the injector at Top dead centre as soon as the air is hot enough
Run the overhead
Strap a 100 pound propane tank to the top and run it! Lol
I could tell everyone that it’s a hybrid dozer! Runs on diesel and/or propane! Haha!
@@Tomsfoolery.
10% diesel/90% propane...or methane...
Digestors at sewage works provide methane which when scrubbed and fed through pipes can be used at that ratio in 750hp diesel pumps to move the sewage...
Saves a city an awful lot of money..burning off the gas usefully......
28 isn’t cold....
that likely has more to do with unburned propane being sucked in not so much heat tho i bet the heat helps
Propane has a higher ignition temperature than diesel fuel. Propane would rely on the diesel fuel to ignite in the cylinder. The heat is the dominant factor.
Good idea, but what if you don't have a blowtorch right then and there, maybe do this:? not osha approved lol
ruclips.net/video/cbtaCGrzTmw/видео.html
ts6034 You have one cyl. with low compression; it is not building up enough heat at TDC; when the motor heats up,it usually fires and runs on all cyls.,but always with a small dead miss;
It could be a leaky valve or bad rings/bore,as usual; if you squirt a VERY small qty of oil in the cyl(it's a diesel,"NO" space bet.top of piston and head!!!) and measure the compression,you'll have a very good idea of what it is; if it's a valve,it's head out,if it is the rings,it's...a big job,better leave it alone; DO NOT crank it,without first turning it a full turn with a wrench on the crank bolt, just to make sure the oil ain't too much,or you can bend a rod,making it a dead cyl;
Instead of the oil,it's much safer to do a leak down test,especially on a diesel.