Dispelling Ashe Juniper (aka "Cedar") Myths

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  • Опубликовано: 3 дек 2024

Комментарии • 84

  • @EarthREALTOR
    @EarthREALTOR 2 года назад +9

    Thank-you my friend!!!!! So true!!!! I amd a Texas Master Naturalist and member of the Native Plant Society. I have a few acres in the Hill Country and I leave my cedars to build soil, provide shade and habitat.

  • @bunnywhite6513
    @bunnywhite6513 2 года назад +16

    I'm so glad you made this video! Please make more as the myths of our poor junipers are just so pervasive! I'll be sharing this with my neighbor who just cut down all his junipers because someone told him the grass he planted died because the "cedars are water hogs". We're on a steep limestone hill and he just exposed the poor soil to wind and water erosion, plus it looks awful now that the beautiful dark green canopy is gone. I'm so frustrated by this, to put it mildly.

    • @bobadingo
      @bobadingo 4 месяца назад

      Illogical people cannot be logically reasoned with.
      > as the saying goes any fool can destroy life! but no fool can put it back.. .

    • @Cycology_Major
      @Cycology_Major 3 месяца назад

      @@bobadingo "someone told him"... Perhaps he asked someone local that he thought had known best & he trusted. Personally, I'd study a couple of educational sources before touching anything on the land.

  • @Paparon65
    @Paparon65 2 года назад +14

    I can understand that they may build up some soil, and if in fact it will allow oaks and other trees to germinate at that point, you cannot allow cedars to just continue to grow without being in check. That is, once you have oaks established, you will need to thin out cedars or they will choke out young oaks. And unless that oak has had a chance to grow large enough to have roots that grow deep enough to reach water underground, cedar will drink it's share of water leaving very little for oaks.

    • @jungkuan1373
      @jungkuan1373 Год назад

      They provide shade for the oak saplings. Eventually the oaks will over take junipers and cedar. But that’s decades if not centuries. Nature will do it’s thing

    • @Paparon65
      @Paparon65 Год назад +7

      @@jungkuan1373 You are wrong, at least with mountain cedar that is in Central Texas. The only Oaks that will survive cedars are those that have deep roots that have reached underground water. Cedars spread out their roots shallow, which sucks up the water, leaving younger oaks nothing. I have land and have seen it, cedar will kill oaks. Funny, thinking they are a benefit by giving the saplings shade and then starve them for water. And nature, over the last 20 years the cedar will take over and not allow any other trees to survive on the the land. And lets not forget the grazing grass for cows and wildlife. Mountain cedar kills that too.

    • @jungkuan1373
      @jungkuan1373 Год назад +2

      @@Paparon65 that’s exactly how oak grows, deep roots, sometimes actually up to 50 or more feet and bringing water up into the top layer of soil. Which then support native grasses. You have understand you’re looking at this is too short a time period, nature recovers much slower than we destroy them. I’m all for cow grazing, just remember they aren’t part of the native ecology.

    • @Paparon65
      @Paparon65 Год назад +1

      @@jungkuan1373 And exactly how does that occur, the oak bringing water to the top layer of soil??? And if unless you already have a well established oak tree prior to mountain cedars start to grow, most if not all young sapling oaks will die of lack of water. I have witnessed this on my land of 10 acres, which the cedars have took over.

    • @nomaderic
      @nomaderic Год назад +4

      ​@Paparon65 I'm in south central Texas and have noticed the opposite. The oak took over the cedar eventually. Then wherever I have cedar trees I have the most green foliage. I let them do their thing. The only tree on my property that gets out of hand is the mesquite trees

  • @HMuny55
    @HMuny55 Год назад +6

    I think the main criticism has been the density and over population o cedar thickets taking over what could be more grassland mixed with timber and cedar brakes

  • @stephenxburrage
    @stephenxburrage 2 года назад +7

    Arborist in San Antonio Texas here….
    All this info is super helpful! Thank you

    • @ernestfernandezii639
      @ernestfernandezii639 Год назад

      Stephen, I have a question for you. Can you reach out to me please. I’m in San Antonio also.

  • @furrycircuitry2378
    @furrycircuitry2378 Год назад

    I love ashe juniper I'm so happy ashe juniper grows in my backyard and I get to eat the juniper berries I love their smell and their taste and also have noticed that in my neck of the woods ashe juniper let's toot ache trees grow which are incredibly rare to see here but I get to see them

  • @lrac88510
    @lrac88510 Год назад +7

    If Cedar are so good at helping other types of trees grow, why isn’t the hill country more diverse?All I see is Cedar…

    • @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336
      @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336  Год назад +4

      Ashe juniper is a pioneering and climax species meaning that it can germinate and grow with limited resources. Where other plants may struggle to survive in areas that have been heavily degraded after past overgrazing or other unsustainable practices, they are often able to gain a foothold. Ashe juniper can serve as a nursery tree for shade loving plants. If you look closely, you might see a few sprouts growing up underneath them!

    • @buddylarsen6647
      @buddylarsen6647 Год назад

      It's a "monoculture". Given time, it will kill everything else.

    • @joecontreras5068
      @joecontreras5068 4 месяца назад

      @@austinwaterwildlandconserv8336. Right absolutely !

    • @bobadingo
      @bobadingo 4 месяца назад +2

      All you see is cedar because you've been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.
      suggestion :stay off the dope and get an education Sir".. .

    • @josephbirchman2870
      @josephbirchman2870 2 месяца назад

      @@bobadingoNot only are you incorrect but you are also a jerk about it. Grow up and learn to be civil.

  • @jackbuster5618
    @jackbuster5618 3 года назад +3

    Thank you for your conservation efforts. When thinning out the junipers, I'd like to use some of the bigger pieces for furniture. Is juniper comparable to cedar as a furniture wood?

    • @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336
      @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336  3 года назад +5

      Ashe juniper had many historical uses, but we don’t know about its use as wood for furniture. Mr. Smarty Plants from the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, writes that Ashe juniper “rarely becomes large enough to be used for furniture. However, it is commonly used as fence posts because of its strength and resistance to rotting. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries many people made their living as ‘cedar choppers’ in Central Texas, sometimes living in their wagons and traveling place to place cutting junipers (or, as they are still called, cedars) for fence posts and other uses.” After big logging events in the 1800s, only the smallest trees were left. Today, the Balcones Canyonlands Preserve promotes a healthy woodland that has multiple generations of Ashe juniper.

  • @raciovillagechannel4950
    @raciovillagechannel4950 3 года назад +2

    Good sir 👍

  • @westonbooth6230
    @westonbooth6230 8 месяцев назад +1

    Most of my property here in Texas is covered in Ash juniper, it makes a wonderful wood to smoke meats with that also gives the meat a wonderful flavor, my native ancestors of the Choctaw tribe would use ask juniper to dry their meats.

    • @intractablemaskvpmGy
      @intractablemaskvpmGy 4 месяца назад

      Cedar smoke is considered to be toxic, FYI

    • @westonbooth6230
      @westonbooth6230 4 месяца назад

      @@intractablemaskvpmGy Ash juniper isn't, most people mistake it for Western or Eastern cedar.

  • @Luckieoutdoors
    @Luckieoutdoors 3 месяца назад +2

    If you look at places we’re cedar trees have completely taken over (like Leander Texas) almost no soil and no vegetation is able to grow underneath the cedars because they are so sick. Soil erosion has skyrocketed since the cedar tree population doubled in our area

    • @CormacHolland
      @CormacHolland 3 месяца назад

      Need fire back in the landscape.

    • @210Deek
      @210Deek Месяц назад

      First of all, they’re not cedar trees they’re ash juniper. Did you not catch that? Secondly, if you also heard what he said, it has to do with proper land management.

  • @zeb5478
    @zeb5478 4 месяца назад +1

    I really don’t believe the hill country was heavily forested 200 years ago. Millions of bison migrated through the area eating and trampling everything in its path, pooping everywhere, making an ocean of grass year to year. It was a great prairie with trees along the rivers and swampy areas.

    • @grahamfloyd3451
      @grahamfloyd3451 4 месяца назад +1

      You are correct but your causation is incorrect. Fire kept the top of the Edward's Plateau as a grassland. Cedars and oaks, etc. thrived on the steep sides of the eroded canyons of the Plateau, sheltered not just from grazing but also sheltered from frequent, low intensity grass fires. Overgrazing "millions of bison... trampling everything" causes hardy cedars to dominate a landscape, which is why the overgrazing of cattle is damaging to grasslands today.
      Today instead of grassland you see mesquite shrubs all along I-10 as you go west from Junction towards the Pecos river. This is the legacy of overgrazing and fire suppression. In California and the west that legacy has turned into super intense wildfires.

  • @Entertainment_Station_ES
    @Entertainment_Station_ES 3 года назад +1

    Do you have any tips on telling the difference between Ashe Juniper and Eastern Red Cedar? I recently moved from Austin to Dallas. Back in Austin I just assumed any cedar tree was Ashe Juniper, but up here it could be either.

    • @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336
      @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336  3 года назад +3

      This is a great question; eastern red cedar (Juniperus virginiana) and Ashe juniper (Juniperus ashei) are very similar when looked at first glance and both native to the area, but their growth behavior differs. Eastern red cedars can grow taller than Ashe juniper and eastern red cedars have a bark that is more silvery gray versus Ashe juniper. You can check out the Texas A&M Forest Service’s Trees of Texas guide here: texastreeid.tamu.edu/content/howToID/
      and check out www.iNaturalist.org to record observations, share with fellow naturalists, and discuss species findings.

    • @Entertainment_Station_ES
      @Entertainment_Station_ES 2 года назад

      @The Cedar Lady Awesome, thank you!

  • @mikeofborg2
    @mikeofborg2 Год назад

    I love my Eastern Red Cedar (also actually a Juniper) in my yard in Ohio. Amazing and beautiful tree. Fast growing also.

    • @chinesenoodles8005
      @chinesenoodles8005 10 месяцев назад

      Those two species have very similar niches! eastern red cedar are also very important pioneers and also get a bad wrap because they are the first things to pop up.

  • @josephbirchman2870
    @josephbirchman2870 2 месяца назад +1

    You know why there’s no soil under and around the cedar? It’s because the cedar allows no other plant life to grow under and around it. Speaking from years of experience with cedar and grassland habitat, when the cedar is removed and replanted with native grasses and other plants, soil is restored in time. Grasses hold moisture in the soil. Cedar removes it and lets no other plant life in.

  • @alankoemel3168
    @alankoemel3168 4 месяца назад +10

    I have two degrees in range management and have spent my life and career on the land. I completely disagree with this video. Yes, cedar trees are native. But historically they were relegated to the hilltops and hard to reach areas of the Hill Country due to natural fire. Even the Indians set fire to improve the ecosystem. Don’t get me wrong, I’m against wildfire and the damage that it causes, but because the area is now populated and fire is no longer a threat, the cedar has been given the chance to spread, and boy has it spread. Overgrazing is also a problem, allowing the cedar to spread. But there’s not much topsoil in the hill country to begin with. The cedars release a toxin into the soil beneath their canopy so that there is less competition for them. And, it’s been studied that of the rainfall that falls on a cedar tree, only 10% reaches the ground. The rest is caught on the tree itself and evaporates. This is due to the shape and growth direction of its leaves.

    • @bobadingo
      @bobadingo 4 месяца назад

      You been drinking the Kool-Aid like the others and have no educational background in biology!! >The water table is dropping because of the humanoid creature not because of a tree that's been here for Millions of years.. .

  • @Hawka-Loogy
    @Hawka-Loogy 3 года назад +1

    The question unanswered: are these native or not?

    • @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336
      @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336  3 года назад +3

      Ashe juniper is a native species that has been in Central Texas for a very long time. Fossilized juniper pollen from Friesenhahn Cave in northern Bexar County date to the last ice age, 14,000-20,000 years ago.

    • @bobgill4069
      @bobgill4069 3 года назад +2

      Don't believe these self absorbed, self righteous Austin hippies. The stupid Ashe Juniper is native but NOT in these absurd numbers. They are draining the aquifers and are water hogs.

    • @TXKay13
      @TXKay13 2 года назад +3

      @@bobgill4069 Correct!! The cedar use to be kept cut on our ranch, but since it hasn't been done in years and there is heavy growth now, our springs have disappeared - even after the rains we've had the last couple of years. These are springs that have been there through 5 generations and even during the drought in the 50's they still ran.

    • @feliciakirkland7352
      @feliciakirkland7352 2 года назад

      @@TXKay13 that's because they suck every bit of water in site. Even after listening to this, I still see no need for cedar. You can't grow grass for cattle and all other trees die because the cedar drinks all the water.

    • @bobadingo
      @bobadingo 4 месяца назад

      ​@@TXKay13that ain't caused by a tree it's caused by the humanoid creature taking over the land like a virus and destroying the natural habitat including using up all underground water Cedar is worldwide and has been for billions of years since it has proven to be the oldest living species of plant life.

  • @gossetthshs7003
    @gossetthshs7003 2 года назад

    Can you plant flowers/garden plants under a Ashe juniper that has been pruned.

    • @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336
      @austinwaterwildlandconserv8336  2 года назад +3

      Yes, you can plant shade-tolerant plants under Ashe juniper. It’s a myth that nothing grows under “cedars”. The uniquely rich and well-draining soil that builds up as juniper leaves fall and decompose is ideal for several native plants, some of which tend to occur almost exclusively in association with it, including cedar sage and cedar rosette grass. You can find ideas for what to plant in this Grow Green guide: bit.ly/GrowGreenGuide

    • @wayfaringfarmer2724
      @wayfaringfarmer2724 4 месяца назад

      Yes I have. Gardens in the hill country need more shade than called for in gardening literature

  • @dfgyuhdd
    @dfgyuhdd Год назад

    There are a few legitimate concerns regarding cedar. 1. In abundance they can be an indicator of acidic soil (like broom sage). Not the cedar's fault, however if you think a healthy forest is going spring up around cedars you might be limited to a small handful of species that also tolerate very acidic soil. 2. They host cedar rust which is a serious concern if you plan to cultivate apple, quince, or other members of the rose family in the area.

    • @flyhigh5056
      @flyhigh5056 Год назад

      Ashe juniper prefers basic soil while eastern juniper prefers acidic soil

  • @RetreatHacker
    @RetreatHacker Год назад +4

    This is not proof.

  • @7xr1e20ln8
    @7xr1e20ln8 2 года назад +2

    The next time someone tells me these beautiful water thrifty trees a pest. I'm going to give them a good kick in the rear.

    • @intractablemaskvpmGy
      @intractablemaskvpmGy 4 месяца назад

      I think they are a pest. The US forestry service believes they are invasive in certain areas. Not that pretty- they are brittle, fracture apart and partially collapse as they age. The worthless wood takes a very long time to break down. They do produce a lot of loose duff, I can attest to that.

  • @gleann_cuilinn
    @gleann_cuilinn Год назад

    Ashe junipers have always been my favorite tree, I'm glad to hear that the slander is false!

  • @MarSchlosser
    @MarSchlosser 3 месяца назад

    Where are the madrone? madrone depend on cedar to grow.

  • @rodneyadamson8270
    @rodneyadamson8270 3 месяца назад

    Years ago I burned two big piles of junipers.. I got carried away and put most of the diesel on the first.. I had very little to put on the second but it lit 🔥 up just as fast 😂

  • @waltershoults8803
    @waltershoults8803 2 месяца назад

    Both are true .

  • @RetreatHacker
    @RetreatHacker Год назад +7

    This video is misleading. Walk some land that is choked by cedar and observe the other tree species that are dead or struggling and the proximity to dozens or more cedars. Now clear cedat around them 20' or so and check back in a season..😢

    • @user-hw4ud6vz9q
      @user-hw4ud6vz9q 6 месяцев назад

      So what do you have to say about the fact that the habits of junipers can be deduced as recharge trees and not water hogs ?.. Where is your proof? Just because you clear them all out? That gives any tree proof that it was over shading and water hungry… have you even looked into elizabeth mcgreevy’s book : “Wanted! Mountain Cedars: Dead and Alive”.. I worked as a horticulturist at the lady bird Johnson wildflower center and a lot of myths among the old heads was dispelled and they recommended this book for a different evaluation for our ashe junipers..

    • @intractablemaskvpmGy
      @intractablemaskvpmGy 4 месяца назад +1

      I only ever see them in areas that are wet and rocky places like karst environment. The government is paying my cousin to clear 60% of ashe juniper off of some acres he owns

    • @user-hw4ud6vz9q
      @user-hw4ud6vz9q 4 месяца назад +1

      @@RetreatHacker definitely NOT a misleading video. You want to be very selective of how much you clear. These are great nursery trees for the arbutus xalapensis (Texas madrone) in the Texas hill country. It is not a misleading video to say they provide recharge habitats as well…. They provide amazing duff that breaks down for mycelium to feed on, and in turn create a great soil biome with ecto and endo mycorrhizae highways for nutrient sharing amongst the trees during droughts.
      If they are dense in some areas , I would evaluate how to utilize that micro climate. Don’t just clear em all. That’s foolish

  • @johnconn5188
    @johnconn5188 4 месяца назад +13

    Wrong. 70 years on the same place, the creeks had water, no body cleared the ceaders on the naboring places for years. The seeps tried up and and the creeks filled with brush. Where I cleared it off rock ledges, native grass would come back.

    • @joecontreras5068
      @joecontreras5068 3 месяца назад +1

      No you’re wrong- if there weren’t any cedars you wouldn’t have any oaks- you’ll never get rid of the cedars unless you kill all the birds then you’ll just have a parking lot- good luck bubba

    • @jackyhallmark3094
      @jackyhallmark3094 2 месяца назад

      Here in southern Oklahoma I have seen many good pastures made in areas previously cedar infested areas. On my place anywhere the cedars create a thicket, nothing else grows. It looks like wasteland beneath them. They might be a future benefit in areas where nothing else grows but they don't just infest those areas.

    • @Somethingelse506
      @Somethingelse506 2 месяца назад

      Unfortunately we ruined our ecosystem and the animals that kept them in check no longer roam free.

  • @jacobowns8856
    @jacobowns8856 6 месяцев назад

    Is ash juniper the best cedar tree to have to repel and kill bugs? I'm sick of all theses damned fleas and wasp!

  • @flyhigh5056
    @flyhigh5056 Год назад

    They shouldn’t be in deep bottom land area

  • @rubyrainsong
    @rubyrainsong 4 месяца назад +5

    Sorry. I don’t like them. After a wildfire came through those were the most flammable. We almost lost our house and a few neighbors actually did lose everything. I’m glad most of them are gone.