Incline Presses Do Not Really Work the Upper Pecs Much !
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2019
- Watch our free masterclass Compound vs Isolation:
online.smarttraining365.com/m...
For nearly a century, we've all been told that "Incline Presses work the upper pecs", and we've embraced that belief. However, it's simply not true. Yes, the "upper pecs" work a little bit during Incline Presses, but not much. This video explain why.
I never got shit from incline pressing, even at 15 degrees. My pecs really started to grow when I had the balls to stop all bench pressing. Now I do exclusively cable and dumbbell movements, some of which Doug demonstrates in this video... and I’ve never looked back.
Thanks, for staying and breathing in what we call REALITY.
Taoist? We're not allowed to talk about wisdom such as in public ever. Nice change of pace.
People hate change, but i love to know if i'm wrong because once i see or receive knowledge i'm so happy, because now i'm on my way to better me and better gains. thank you Doug for all you hard work and sharing your amazing knowledge.. :-)
I love ur videos man. U have alot of knowledge. Thank you for this!
The leverages change when you start engaging the hips on the bench to get leg drive. So on a flat bench, the angle of the chest is slanted in the form of a one end of a tripod (watch a powerlifter). If you lock the shoulder blades all the way back on the incline, I've found the chest angle of the incline bench to be perpendicular to the ground.
Most people bench incorrectly cuz they don't dig their shoulder blades into the bench and set their shoulders properly, which usually leads to shoulder issues (not to mention you're not getting leg drive, so you can't move as much weight).
Interesting perspective. However, I think this only applies if we pressed with our arms flared out, creating a 90 degree angle, but we have more like a 45 degree angle because its easier on the shoulder joint. Thus, from a 45 degree angle, if you follow the fibres, you do actually need to press slightly upwards. I Certainly feel that I get better upper chest development through incline pressing. I guess whatever works best.
The higher degree angle the more pecs involvement. 45 angle is not that easier on the joints, it's easier on the pecs, cause triceps gets more involved therefore it's easier to push more weight, but doesn't mean you're doing more chest. 90 degree angle, lower the weight..
@@MsMatki actually, when you flare your shoulders out 90° you make the exercise unsafe on your shoulder joint because you are internally rotating it and adding pressure on it. It is not how the exercise is taught or performed. You can go light if you want, but it would have be very light, so then you're not getting as much muscle activation which defeats the purpose.
Besides, if you do it at 45 you are following the upper pec fibres. Incline press definately works to impact the higher pec fibres more, if done correctly.
This was exactly my thoughts
I certainly *felt* more upper chest activation using a slight incline for pressing (the "standard" incline I never felt comfortable with)... but after all was said and done, this really didn't specifically make my upper pecs grow more than what they already had been with other standard chest exercises.
Try a guillotine press. When arms are flared you have to use less weight and remember to keep your shoulders down and back and you will feel your upper chest activated more than an incline
From a gym lover Malaysia Girl, I have been do inclined Bench press for year 😅😅😅 thanks for sharing the concept and explanation, it is very clear. I have subscribed! Support.
I think the tendency for incline angles came from a fact that most dudes arch their back quite extensively during a bench press. That means that their chests would be parallel to the floor on inclines. It's a bad thing when people don't get the details nailed down so those could jump onto an incline bench with a flat back which would result in everything you tell about in the video. Good stuff man.
With back arch a lot of incline benching ends up being near flat
Explained in simple terms. Thank you!
If i look at your picture at 4:02 and put the elbow down at 45 degrees the upper pec fibers would be in the perfect line of pull towards the inner portion of the clavicle. Furthermore if the shoulders are pulled down and back and fixed in that position by the lats and mid traps the fibers would be even more in line. Now to make that happen the chest must be arched up so the only way to get resistance on the other side of the fibers we are trying to bias is to put the body at an incline.
Newly subbed, you give great advice . I appreciate what you do
Life changing information
Just saw ur video with Ric Drasin about presses and delts.
My shoulders thank you for that!
I've been trying to increase my OH Press along with the other big compound moves for several years now and really don't want to stop doing it altogether but is there a better way to train the muscles that u use for OH Press?
Could I strengthen those muscles better with other exercises and do actual OHP much less often?
The problem is most people arch or over arch and put their chest in a completely different angle than the angle of the bench. Keep the lower back flat when pressing.
Can't remember if you answer this question in the video but, what does an incline bench press actually exercise the most? I damaged stuff in my shoulder by letting a barbell drop from finishing a back squat (with no stands, just me and the barbell) while holding on to it thinking I could control it. Oops. But now if I do an incline bench press (I read it was a great chest builder!) I feel the discomfort of the damage through my shoulder horizontally into the base of my neck. A flat bench press doesn't give me that bother. I wonder what I've damaged if I'm feeling it in the incline position?
Hi Doug. Great vid. You have persuaded me to do flat dumbbell presses instead of incline. I will still do OHP. The caveman analogy falls short when you think about the fact that to survive, they most likely HAD to push something (food, weapons, etc) or someONE (smaller child or weaker [old person] ), up to help it get out of harm's way or line of sight from a predator. I do 1 arm pushups. What are your thoughts about 1 arm pushups? Done 'correctly' and with the arm tucked tightly to the torso, the torso can move {like a dumbell} sideways over the hand at full extension of the arm { I do that for every rep }. It is also a little bit of a decline press when the feet are on the floor vs. up on a chair.
Doug has his own channel! This is awesome!
All of this is based on the arms pressing in a straight line across the shoulders. Almost everyone I see in the gym and on the internet barbell presses with their elbows tucked in around 45 degrees instead of 100% flared out like the picture in 1:09. Ok so now if you press with the elbows not flared, the muscle fibre origins on the clavicles are aligned to (pull the humerus muscle insertions) press the barbell up on an incline angle, the muscle fibres mainly being upper chest with some front delts.
Great explanation, very educational Doug
You're spot on Doug....stopped doing inclines back a year and a half ago when you explained this on Ric Drasen's showand done alternative exercises and my upper pecs are as developed if not more so than when I was doing inclines.
Thought provoking and worth consideration.
doug is the best and most informed bio mechanical genius around. his videos and book is my "bible"
You're the man Doug!
Doug's book is amazing! I've got the PDF version a long time ago but last night I ordered the real version! (Print! Well....I am old!)
You, sir, are the guy I go to to filter through the bro science BS of many generations. Thanks
And you are the typical person that doesn't want to admit having done a bad exercise for years...looser
@@billbergmann7840 Sorry, but who are you commenting to? And, it's spelled "loser", by the way...I'll refrain from further comment.
I don’t incline bench at a high incline and I definitely feel it in my chest. People that flat bench press a lot develop the lower chest a lot because they arch their back
Cool video and top quality info. Also cool that the background looks like the Matrix.
great explanation
What is your opinion of the guillotine press for the upper pec fibers since the press is in line with the clavicles?
best pressing movement for upper pecs, do it on some kind of machine though vs free weight.
how about the beginning of the range of motion when the arms are down by your sides and the bar is right over your mid chest?
The point is there is a lot of wasted energy and time doing incline press. If you want to do a 2 inch incline movement that’s up to you.
@@godgunsandgoldens even on a low incline, I feel it all in my shoulders. Flat benching was always good to me, just thought I could take things to the next level.
makes good sense. This supports Barnett's research that there is no additional stress on the incline.
Hi Doug, tried to catch you on Facebook but I know you must be pretty busy. Hopefully I can reach you here. I've been following your book since it first came out and as I have stated before in other posts, it has made a tremendous difference in changing my aesthetics at 53 years old. As suggested in the book, I have only been doing the 2 best chest exercises of Extreme Decline Cable (single arm, since my gym doesn't have a flexible arm machine), followed by Decline DB presses, with the 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 2 breakdowns sets. Yesterday I followed the suggested sequence on your video of Flat, Decline, Cable and the supplemental clavicular fibers Dumbbell press. Although very long in duration, it was an awesome workout and I felt the entire chest thoroughly stimulated.
A. In looking for the optimal results for the amount of effort, would doing the suggested sequence of 4 exercises be better than focusing on doing just the 2 best ones only? If so, should the amount of sets be reduced or not?
B. Does it matter if one starts the beginning of the workout with the Extreme Decline Cables, since it rated slightly better than the others, and one is starting out fresh?
I am not trying to overthink things. I would like to know your opinion, so I can experiment with program design.
I emailed him twice using the same email that you can buy the book from and he always answered with great assistance.
@@jaredbrymesser2551 thank you very much!
@@robert50173 Thank you. I appreciate the advice.
I do incline upper pecs get sore lower pecs don't. Simple solution to any question we might have related to what muscle works and what muscle doesn’t work. Try it and see the next day. Don't take everything that you hear or see as the truth. The only thing you should be aware of is the feedback from your body.
I did as well when I did incline work... I would "feel" it working my upper pecs more than with other exercises.
However, it never led me to having any noticeable "upper pec" development in particular, just overall chest growth which I would have gotten doing any other chest exercise...
Doug mentions a SLIGHT Decline. What angle decline is considered to be optimal?
Experiment to find out...
ivbeen thinking about this also before i see ur video, the logic i use is base on my trial and error on my chest. finally i see ur video and accept that my logic is 100% true then i hit the like button and subscribe thia
Good job!
Someone share the book plis
Hi! So how Arnold build the massive Chest ? He doing lot of incline presses .Dips .I am 45 now .But when I was younger and army I had no chest ,nothing .. We start doing push ups between chairs or tables and dips and my chest start growing like crazy .. I just finished my workout ,doing Incline Presses barbell and 30 angle Dumbell presses fallow with dips ;-) So its wrong ???
He wanted to show the exercises that hits the Chest to the highest degrees. As he said that Is impossible to isolate upper/medium/inner pecs so Is an illusion hit exclusively the upper chest with inclined exercises, and incline bench presses although hits all the Chest to a certain degree, there are better exercises that hits much more the chest fibers. So even if u do incline Press u ll still hit chest, but to a lower degree compared to other exercises (such as declined presses)
Some ppl get good developed pecs from benches n such n most dont u have to realize what works for u n if ur chest isnt growing from benching n such it is time for a reevaluation what makes ur pecs grow or any other muscle for all that matters
What about overhead presses for shoulder(deltoid) development
Not necessary to do... shoulder development comes from developing the side deltoid anyway.
Great video 👍👍👍👍
Very interesting!
So Ring Dips Twisting Wrist is best for upper pec :)
Excellent advice away from the common B.S. we've been taught to believe.
brilliant. Just brilliant.
so, what are you working when you do incline press?
front delts
@@StreetTruckinTitan using your logic no, because you're already higher than clavicular fibers.
calves.
abs..seriously the core
Upper chest and front deltoids.
Got your pdf book May 2020.
What about the reverse barbell press
Primarily a front delt exercise with the pecs assisting the movement. Pick up his book for more detailed analysis.
RIP brother 🙏
👍Thanks from sweden,very smart🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
You are a genius
This is so interesting
Hey Doug,
Great info, however, don't know how familiar you are with a concept I only heard on the internet called "pigeon chest syndrome". i started benching 15 years ago and my chest looked pretty decent according to my wife, but now at 46-years-old my chest began to sag on the sides and it looks like I need a chest lift. I did gain a few more pounds than before, but now I also lost abiut 20 lbs., due to being borderline pre-diabetic. Considering this, I now took up incline dumbell presses exclusively in the attempt to lift my saggy side pecs. What I mean with pigeon chest is that my top rorso is slightly shifted front upwards that when I make a side chest pose, you can see a peak popping out from the middle of my lower pecs hence, looking like a pigeon's chest. Do you mean I should focus on constantly working out my chest on a decline position instead of my current and exclusive incline chest workout?
Then why does incline bench help to build the upper chest when tested in practice?
YES! And why do some people develop larger lower pecs that look like saggy moobs and some have big, rounded upper pecs or more "square" pecs?
@@geoffreylevens9045 Genetics! You can't change the "shape" of your muscles. They can only grow, shrink, or stay the same. The 'shape' is genetic.
Why do you see so many 'front delt dominant" physiques in every gym you walk in to?
@@geoffreylevens9045 genetics.
@@SpeakmanDavid they do not work on their side and rear deltoids with focus.
@Doug Brignole You are wrong there with the upper chest fibers on the illustration of the woman. You can clearly see that she is at the contracted position but her upper chest fibers are not contracted AT ALL. The muscle fibers are showing her holding that weight at the top in a static position. They seem to be right in between their lengthened and contracted position. Please, go over your studies and correct this mistake. The correct way to hit the upper chest, according to the diagram of the anatomical body, would be to come in as if you are touching your elbows from a lower position. Just the way you show how to work the front delts but with your elbows a bit wider out in a diagonal position. An incline press will, in fact, follow this direction. Try this if you are standing: If you were to flex your upper chest, you would feel it more when you bring your elbows towards your chin and your fists towards your ears. If you were to bring your elbows out in front and your fists together, at a horizontal angle, you would only feel your lower to mid chest contract. According to the diagram, the way they are attached forces them to run sort of at a "rounded" angle rather than a straight path towards the origin. You missed the part where you chose a diagram where the arms are stretched out to the side. If the arms were at a diagonal angle towards the ground then the pulling will, WITH 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY, be pulled from towards the top. If your arms at straight down to your side then the fibers would be running from top to bottom. An incline chest press is not performed in a straight line following the angle where you are laying on the bench. It is performed following a perpendicular angle towards the ground. Taking into account the angle of the bench makes it target the upper chest fibers, Doug.
I also "targeted" the upper chest fibers with a slight incline on an adjustable bench for a long time (the standard incline bench didn't feel comfortable at all to me and I felt it way too much on my front delts than anything else)... the results after all this direct targeting was no significant increase in upper chest growth, just more of the same overall growth I had already gotten from other standard chest exercises.
@@davepazz580 what element did you use, or do you use? smith machine, dumbbells or barbell? It all depends on the size of your rib cage also. I have a narrow rib cage and, in my case, slight decline and slight incline, when using smith machine, works like a charm. In a flat bench i don't feel anything happening, usually after performing a set i got a chest pump but this do not happen when doing flat bench in smith machine or barbell. (all of the cases performing with elbows flared out.
PS: Will give another test on a flat bench using smith machine but with elbows in 45° angled/flared and will update this comment later
@@javig9346 I always used dumbbells when doing (slight) incline presses...
I did feel my overall pecs working when I did flat bench (either barbell or dumbbell presses), but the reason I stuck with inclines was the conventional thinking that inclines are going to give you specific "upper" chest growth which I never found to be the case for me no matter how much incline work I did for years.
But I now realize that anyone with pronounced "upper" pes most like already had the genetics to develop a chest like that and *any* pec training was going to lead to that same result...
I'm in the 2nd from the left stage on the evolution of man chart
Consider my mind blown!
What about an incline of 15 or 20 ?
Use it, see what happens
following now
I must say, the incline hex press has been amazing for my upper pec development, imho. Nonetheless, good info Doug, thank you.
BDB Storm maybe you achieved success in spite of that inferior exercise....not because of it
what angle did u use on the incline
@@incorectulpolitic i cycle through all the angles, I found that with the higher angles, I could really feel the tension and was able to get a good contraction on the clavicular head, I did not use heavy weight relative to myself, it was very much a mind muscle connection exercise. Everyone is different, but it made a difference for me!
Bet your shoulders where pumped at the end of that exercise.
@@alancameron6937 🙄. If he got results, that's all that counts. You, most likely, have not even built a significant amount of muscle mass based on your comment alone.
Im liking your shit doug👍
6:35 flex upper pec by shrugging shoulders slightly UP and squeezing pecs together.
Physics of Fitness is well worth the $50.
I respectfully disagree. Whenever I do incline bench presses my inner and upper pecs get completely fried but I will try your suggestions to see what happens. Thanks.
Low incline
what happened?
But S far as decline. And squat and abuse of spine. We re on the same page. Decljne dumbell triceps extensions. I agree. As well. Stiff leg deadlift with a CAR....doesnt blow up my hamstrings like a 30 pound leg curl. My biceps all wish they had.....all I did. Mostly. Progressive. Concentration curls with a dumbell.
No, No, he's got a point
I agree with you a lot. But definitely not on this. In each picture you showcased, none had even the slightest arch-changing direction of resistance. A lot of the movements you showed had high flared (unsafe) elbows. The underhand delt raise is entirely inefficient for the upper pecs. By looking at your older pics, you clearly lacked in the upper chest department
Thank you for writing this. I have watched this video a number of times to understand each point and one fundamental issue is that incline/decline/flat bench presses are not done with your elbows inline with your shoulders, ideally you press with your elbows tucked closer to your body. Other fitness people (like Jim Stoppani) have pointed out that you get less tension in your chest with high flared elbows and no one who has any experience benching would bench that way. Therefore, with tucked elbows you would get fiber alignment with the force of the bar or at least they would closer to alignment and the upper pectoral fibers would be under tension this way. As you mentioned arch also provides a change in apparent angle and is important for protecting your body and for getting maximal tension. No experienced lifter benches with a flat back.
Edit: Watching through the whole video you can see that his elbows were flared out in every still image showing different techniques and when he was showing pressing techniques except the underhand front delt raise, which looked closest to an actual bench press but is exaggerated since the elbows are too close.
In the end, upper pecs are about genetics... I've done all sorts of incline pressing work in my life and never saw any real improvement in my upper pecs, only general growth overall.
I squatted til the cows came home. Felt glutes. MOSTLY BACK. I LRG PRESS OR HACKSQUAT. NO LOWER BACK AND MY LEGS ARE FLUSHED WITH BLOOD. ONCE AGAIN ALL INDIFFERENT
Just look at Bo Jackson Super Athlete not anymore in Science or Reality but he had different artery and vein structure from the standard sportsman in NFL. Beautiful documentary just explains his biophysiology and anatomy from no discriminative standpoint. By Jesus two cents
7:15
B
I think you prove in your video how incline presses work the upper pec. ( The clavicle fibers I meant, the sternal fibers)
Pick up his book and give it a read. It’s on Amazon but I’m sure there are ways to read it for free.
@@malcolmjelani3588 Malcom I am positive his training methods prevent injury and keep you training longer. My issue is that he implies he's a medical professional or linked to the scientific community in some way...some of his viewers are calling him DR. I can't listen to someone who says incline presses don't work and you should only do these 20 exercises...etc. I also don't like that 3 days after Ric Drasin passed he wanted to Take over his show. He was on Rics show 35x but couldn't make a tribute video? He's a user and a know it all.
@@Mindsaw firstly, where EXACTLY does he imply that he is a medical professional? Second, Him and Ric used to argue a lot on the show, the nature of their relationship is between them. You are making a judgement based on how you PERSONALLY FEEL about someone, which frankly is unscientific and has no bearing on the quality of the information. Thirdly, where does he say you should only use 20 exercises? Show me... There are far more than 20 recommended exercises in the book. Again, read the book... you can get it for free.
@@malcolmjelani3588 ok
We have also come to believe over about the last one hundred and seventy years that we evolved from monkeys. We need to think outside the box on that one also.
Exactly! Evolution is fraudulent.
So... probably a few hundred of guys that look awesome and have 100k+ subscribers, some more than 1 mil subscribers, say that incline work the upper chest. Then, an old guys who looks... average at best and have under 10k subs come and say it's not true. OK...
this is true if your goal is upper pecs. but if your goal is upper pecs and shoulders in one exercise then inclined press is best
Apparently, this guy is forgetting about who handles the elevation of the arms. this whole video would have some value if horizontal adduction (bringing your arms together) was the only role of your upper chest but that is just half of the equation, the elevation of your arm is the other half and it just happens to be overloaded if you press in an incline or even standing position. of course, your front deltoids will take over the movement at some point but that is not to say that incline press has no value. in a bench press, you are fully working the horizontal adduction but not the elevation of your arms unfortunately
Another at the gym says I must squat. Leg press he feels only in his glutes. Anatomy to blame ? No YOU SHOW THE ANATOMY CHART. SAME DIRECTIOM FIBERS OF EVERYONE SO. WHAT CAN BE THE DISPARITIES ? SIMPLE. THE SKELETON. AND ITS DENSITY. LIMB. LENGTHS. SOME HAVE LONG TORSOS. SOME SHORT. SO OBVIOUSLY. LEVERS. WILL. BE DIFFERENT
Commonsense says no
all EMG research says no
logic says no
😂🙄🤦🏼♂️
Dirian yates only did decline,
Nice theories. But humans basically evolved from chimp like creatures. If you concede that then you concede that we were reaching overhead to grasp branches to haul ourselves into trees. Also it seems you don't understand the role the shoulder girdle plays in rotating the arms into a locked position at the top of an incline or standing press. It IS an upper chest movement until the bar clears the top of the head or so, at which point the shoulders are more involved. Saying it's bad for upper chest is like saying pull ups or lat pulldowns are bad for the lats because they don't come into play until the bottom range of the movement.
different chromosome # kills that theory
He does say exactly that about pull-ups and lat pulldowns...
Doug i agree decline dumbell best CAUSE IT IS FKR ME. inxline dumbell secondary.....dips for chest MANY S. wear by. NOT. ME.
✋✋✋✋
Disagree, imagine pushing a large boulder, your body leans into the push the same as a incline press. It’s a good exercise to keep in the tool box
It's not about whether an exercise replicates a typical movement (not that pushing a large boulder is a typical movement!), it's about how effectively the exercise targets/develops the associated musculature whilst minimizing the risk of injury.
I've got an idea? You guys that like doing inclined presses, you keep doing them!, The guys that have an idea how Peck's actually work and know that inclines are a waste of time, and know about the roll of genetics in physical development, don't do them. Problem solved!
jedi shaw Yep Im gonna keep doing all angles because i still want my delts to grow, and at incline bench the negative part stretch still works the upper a bit
Rip Doug, but I know why your upper chest was lagging since a youngster.
I do as well... genetics.
We never had to press overhead? What about.. idk..building shelters and walls, swinging heavy weapons overhead, repeatedly handing things to someone who is above you, holding something up so that it won't fall down, etc. LOL
Lost me with the monkeys 😂
Had me until evolution. Sorry but I believe we were created by God and didn't just evolve out of time and chance. No disrespect to anyone.
Reality is biology ahem anatomy and physiology is not black and white just cut dry. We have permutations when these independent Sciences mix in a being or person or just some dude out there smoking marijuana looking to help out. My two cents bro - Afrikkanese have upward of 24 pec muscle per each breast I may add. My imagination bro
Theory of evolution. Ok...I laugh at part.
Good stuff except for the evolution stuff . As smart as you seem that kinda hurts your credibility Doug.
look how small and underdeveloped this guy's upper chest is and how hard he trys to make up excuses for not doing an exercise that is too difficult for him. inclines blow my upper chest up like nothing else. even Ronnie does them now.
I assume it's genetics because the science and biomechanics of it all makes sense...
I've seen a ton of people lacking an upper chest
@jk, at what angle is the bench when you do incline bench?
Doug spent a year doing nothing *but* incline work and saw no significant difference... so I have no idea what you mean by "make up excuses for not doing an exercise".
Upper pecs (much like everything else) is all genetics anyway...
@@davepazz580 i have started to stop also doing incline presses last week, and i'm focusing on slight decline smith machine bench press, which feels awesome in my chest, with elbows flared out (also clavicular fibers). Slight decline or slight incline are a good to go for me, having a narrow rib cage. (with slight decline i mean 1 level under the horizontal level of an adjustable bench, same goes for slight incline meaning 1 level over the horizontal level of an adjustable bench, using a Matrix adjustable bench as reference) I have to try the dumbbell decline press, when i can, someday. (since i have a Matrix adjustable abs bench available at the gym, I'll have to test the level of decline some day)
Seems like you work your mouth more than any other body-part with all the Dumbbells for Dummies advice. Personally, I was a Nautilus user until they replaced them with inferior devices. Also a friend of Mike Mentzer (work hard and get out of the gym) RIP.
Give him respect. He just won the 2019 AAU Mr Universe 1st place overall winner.
Jealousy is an ugly thing...
@@jamesjacob9632 I'd just stick with lousy.
That's why your upper chest looks so weak in your photos. Doug your upper chest is weak.
He spent a year doing nothing but incline work for the chest and never saw any appreciable increase in that one area...
Ultimately, how your particular "upper" chest development is going to be determined by genetics *much* more than what selection of exercises you do for it...