Optimistic Nihilism | Sonny Boy Anime Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2021
- Life is meaningless. But in that pointlessness, we can find a matching power. This is the idea Sonny Boy communicates. The 2021 anime tells the story of Nagara, Nozomi, and Mizuho, as their school is sent a drift in a void they call This World, where they each gain some sort of "super power." Through a storm of surrealism, and the exploration of many worlds and their artifacts, the anime makes a clear communication; that there is no point. The plot details the meaninglessness of everything, from those "super powers," to their love, to entire lives. But, it doesn't take a fully Nihilist approach, instead opting for a hopeful optimism...
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I felt the same while watching Sonny Boy. I don't know if it was good, but I liked it and the feelings that it elicited from me compared to my usual numbness. I like this analysis as well.
Honestly, that unsure feeling seems fitting for the anime. We didn't really truly know what was happening, so being almost lost on what to think of it just seems right
@@ProfessorViral I agree, I think that's a part of what makes the show for me!
Good is so subjective. If you like something then why not label it as good? You are not creating a law that all must follow. You exist, and with that you posess the inherent ability to decide what is good and what is not in your world. And ironically I think Sonny Boy even speaks to that. Sorry if this comes off poorly. Love you.
Have you heard the phrase, "deceptivally simple"? Well, I see Sonny Boy as the opposite. It's deceptivally complicated. In reality, Sonny Boy is an astonishingly simple story, trying to get across a message that you wouldn't be able to find within anything similar because, it's fundamentally personal to the creators.
So, it doesn't really matter what you think about Sonny Boy. What matters, is that you should want to see more of it in this disappointing industry.
man... thats true, huh?
This is interesting analysis, but it feels like your script is coming from a dark place. Doesn't mean what you're saying is wrong... but if life is meaningless, a roll of the dice, a flip of a coin--there's another side to it.
Nozomi's words that humans are born without worth isn't that everything is meaningless--it's that you have to create your own meaning. It's why she rejects Asakaze. He uses his reality bending gifts to fulfill the plans of others, he gives into false comforts. He doesn't realize he's lived his life as a tool of others larger visions (similar to the teens slaving away at the tower).
I thought there was something incredibly empowering about the idea that they're all just copies of one another--set adrift from the 'real copy' that gets to live their 'official life'. If you take that idea into reality, every moment is a roll of the dice where you could take an alternate path, do something different. The 'causality' you're seeking in this story is one of realizing that the 'official' life you get to live is the one you ultimately choose and fight for as Nagara does. Even if on the surface, Nagara's life hasn't changed, it ultimately has because he's accepted reality and chosen to work and continue the process of finding his own purpose within it.
Just finished watching this last night. This anime is amazing. Probably going to be my favorite of the year
I don't generally watch many series the year they come out, so this is pretty much a sure thing for my favorite of 2021, but outside of that it's probably somewhere in my top 20% or so overall
I loved Sonny Boy, one of the most profound pieces of art I've experienced.
Same here. Although, I don't think I figured out exactly why until the follow up to this video, where it complete changed my idea on the meaning of death, and if living forever would be positive
This kind of anime, like Haruki Murakami's novels, only needs to be seen and felt. Understanding it makes it more complicated.
Being honest, I am obsessed with understanding. I think part of it comes with making videos, because I need something to say, but I never really thought to look at something without trying to understand it
Love this comparison ❤️
For the love of God stop comparing every anime to haruki murakami novels. And Sonny boy is nowhere as shallow or to the vibe of murakami novels. Murakami's novel are completely different from Sonny boy.
I feel this anime is one of those that makes you think about something, which isn't seen too often in a lot of anime. It seems more abstract and kind of like they want you to fill in the blanks yourself and come up with your own theories and conclusions as to why things happened the way they did. This was a really interesting look into the show, it's so different and unique and beautiful. Personally I feel they're making a lot of metaphors to becoming an adult/coming of age. Learning that life is meaningless (essentially), about war, money, death, losing connections with friends, etc. I think no matter how you choose to think about it, it's going to be more personal because everyone has different views based on their lives and the paths they chose. They're all going to be different and beautiful and interesting, just like the person that they are.
This is amazing, I really enjoyed your thoughts. It's always nice to hear another's perspective no matter how unpolished it is, so thanks for the video!
No problem, thank you for the kind words and checking out the video!
Sonny boy, for having no real visible plot, is perfect for that reason. Giving meaning to nothingness/randomness is a choice and directly correlates to our own lives. Its artistically stunning, littered with nuances and small details. I enjoyed Sonny boy, I like the aesthetic of it. A story that isn't really a story, leaving tons of room for the viewers interpretation. Something completely different for the genre, something rare, something.. special. When any form of entertainment makes you think beyond the pale, you can feel it in your bones, it impacts you. This was a terrific analysis, just know I feel you brother.
Thank you, I appreciate that. I'll actually be talking about it again in a few days here, but taking a somewhat different approach. On something else it emphasizes on finding meaning, and whether eternity is good or bad for it. Safe to say, it's a series that kept me thinking and feeling, even on another watch
I always thought the principal being god was a metaphor for the principal's importance in a school setting. In the hierarchy of school the principal is the most important.
There could be a more slim meaning to it like that, at their age school is more or less their world, and the principle controls that. So, in a way, he is a god of that space
sonny boy, cowboy bebop, and samurai champloo will always be my 3 favourite animes.
Sonny Boy didn't crack the top of my list for ratings, but it was something I very much enjoyed and will likely watch again sometime
Poor space dandy :( good choices thou
Funnily enough i watched those shows in that order and all of them are in my top 5 lol
This was a really good video and it helped me appreciate this work of art even more.
Thank you, I'm happy to hear that : )
This is one of the best interpretations I have seen on this show. Like whoa you are so intellectual I actually cried watching this. This is so deep and honestly I have been living like this as well - it is meaningless so why not just do it? Thinking of your example of talking to new people, we all have the free will which is something some of us don’t use because of the fear of it being meaningless. But everything is meaningless
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words, and it does mean a lot to see the things I make can have a positive impact like this : ) I still have a lot of moments where I think "no matter what it's meaningless" and it gets me to move forward, so I'm glad others have used that strength as well
You just made a great video, man. Never tought Sonny Boy in that way. Thanks.
Thank you, that means a lot : )
You mentioning sonny boy OST is such a good notice, because while it does give some pieces to it's lore regardless it's OST is so good ... Especially it's ending theme
This video was awesome man
Writer or not you made something fresh honest and something that connects with people and feelings. Doing that in my opinion is media art writing all that is all about.
Loved sonny boy loved the video
Thank you, at the end of the day that's all I want to do, so I appreciate that : )
Insane video you need to have more subscribers with your quality of writing ! I wish you all good things in your life
That you, that means a lot : )
Great video, loved the personal approach.
I also feel like there is stuff in Sonny Boy that isn't meant to be understood in the usual sense of the word, instead you just have to accept it. But, maybe a bit stubbornly, I am still trying to decipher it a little bit, although there isn't all that much I can explain properly.
The only thing that I feel comfortable sharing are the meaning of the characters' names, in most japanese media they tell us something aobut the characters. Nozomi's name 希 means "hope", which is very fitting for her. Nagara's name 長良 means "good leader", which makes sense since for a large part of it the story revolves around group dynamics and hierarchy. Mizuho's name 瑞穂 refers to a japanese common saying that relates to her youth and immaturity.
Maybe I am looking too much into it but in a story as dense as this I kinda want to go all out and pick every possible detail, we'll see how far the rabbit hole goes.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed! And I don't think you're over thinking the anime at all! There's a lot in there I probably missed, because I took such a general approach. I can believe the anime made the point of meaninglessness, but can't do so simply by being meaningless itself. The names are intentional, so there is something right there that's a good point I didn't include, that likely kicks off entire character discussions!
Amazing video, honestly! Its an inspiring and interesting interpretation and you can tell with how much sincerity you deliver it this anime's done an amazing job at resonating something within you. Shingo Natsume did an amazing job, sometimes you really do get shows that remind us of how great a medium this is! Good work!
Good video. It's nice to see an analysis that doesn't just summarize the plot. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
Really enjoyed watching it, keep it up! 👏
Thank you : D
You are a wonderful writer. It's obvious you put a lot of passion into your script. This is my first video from your channel but I've heard a lot of essays. You have in-depth knowledge, and present it passionately. Kudos.
Also, I feel, in my opinion, that nihilism brings a sense of freedom that most people don't like. They don't like thinking their job, efforts, and lives are pointless. But in reality, they are. I feel as though it's a vale that people want to believe is there. So they don't fall a drift in the endless sea of nothingness. I've had so many people tell you "God, you are depressing." When hopelessness makes me feel good, free, and burdenless. What I have noticed is it's not for everyone. Like you said knowing the truth and accepting it are different things.
It doesn't seem like they were trying to convey a nihilistic stance to me
Everything had meaning, every episode, object, when one's life ends they become a power holdover
Each world has meaning too, having power holdovers as when their story is "complete"
The hyoryu is supposed to represent a completely meaningful universe, although perhaps if it's in contrast to the real world where nothing like that exists, I suppose it would have nihilistic themes
I completely agree that a lot of the anime has some meaning to it, although I can't point to specifics having taken a general stance here. But, I do believe individual pieces of the chaos can have meaning, while the presentation of it conveys meaninglessness! Like the induvial stories, like episodes 8, 9, and 10, each have a point of their own, but together they're hardly connected. Overall, it can lead to meaninglessness, but the parts themselves have meaning
i love this. exactly how i feel about sonny boy. i love sonny boy, i think its my favorite anime... it lingered with me for quite a bit of time after awhile.
It's slowly worked its way into my favorites. It's definitely a lingering experience, something unique that needs time to process
This was an incredibly video man
Thank you! 🙏
This was amazing
Thanks! 💙
For those confused as to whether or not Sonny Boy is any good...
It is.
Thanks for the analysis, great work.
No problem, thank you for the kind words!
Nice video man! :)
Thank you! 😁
That soundtrack is very intriguing
That's essentially what I was going for since the anime is a bit more odd
Man... keep doing what you doing
:)
Will do, thank you!
Awesome love your stuff makes me feel kinda I don’t know.
Thank you. That feeling of "I don't know" is valuable to me. It's like, once you have that feeling, you can look for why, and learn more about yourself. So, being able to provide that means a lot : )
@@ProfessorViral I just love channels like yours that are able and willing to dive deep and not only bring forth the themes of anime I love, but also how they apply to are really world and the people in it. I’ve wanted to start doing these strange analytical videos but for video games and keep getting side tracked but your channel helps in courage me. You give me a odd sort of “oh fuck what is my live going to be in 10 years!” Kinda hope! Thank you.
After watching this anime, I felt pretty depressed. I too couldn’t get over the feeling that, ultimately, I was meaningless. My and others’ experiences and actions will have almost no effect in the future. I’m pretty much powerless.
But I don’t want to live a life I regret. Even if I exist just to exist, I can give myself meaning. Meaninglessness does not mean that I will never love, cry, laugh, think, or feel again. It means that you get to chose your actions for yourself. There is so much to experience in life. No one lives forever, so unlike most of the characters, I will not fade slowly due to overexperiencing life. My actions can lead to me having better experiences during my life, or I can even give myself meaning by creating better experiences for others. Immortality denies meaning to those actions because everyone can move past whatever may happen. Our actions would affect no one. Any bad decision or good decision would still lead to us fading (perhaps transforming) into something inhuman and eternal. We can find solace in the fact that we are temporary, so our actions are not completely meaningless.
got a new subscriber after this one🤝
Thank you, happy to have you!
And thank you ☺️
No problem!
Life is meaningless, but we need to find meaning in that
Sonny Boy sure was ambitious, and I think it did something beautiful, even if I don't understand half of what it wants to express
here's my take:
in a world of meaninglessness and chaotic events and powers, people can still be individuals, with their own unique goals and personalities. and so the success is in the small things, taking leaps of faith. even if one is to fall off, there is beauty in them on their own. they don't need meaning around them, it's how they choose to interact with the world that 'matters'.
Hi I'm new here and really love what you're doing. Have a good day!
Thank you for the kind words, have a nice day as well!
The points you bring up remind me of Camus
I'm a big fan of Camus; my most popular video is around The Myth of Sisyphus, and The Plauge is to date the best novel I've read. I wanted to talk about the Stranger for a video as well, but haven't got there yet
Good shit!’
Thanks!
Idk if youve ever watched Kaiba, this gave me the same vibes
One yes the ost is good shit
And two while the point of the series could perfectly be meaningless I think there is at least a critic to parts of Japanese society in it, like how rules call off the sense of freedom, of themselves (the powers) in the first episode, or things like how War is just never defeated even if that is bringed up , he will always be there as long as society exist, the same with God, a religion or in this case an authority may say you should do something, but really you don't need to do so (same with the babel example)
The story is mostly about having trouble to find oneself, even when you think you done it like Nagara after getting the push he needed from a compass (nozomi giving him a direction in life, and so a meaning) in the ending or who knows it could only be a society criticism for each chapter but I know I liked the final chapter a lot even if Im mixed on my feelings on the rest of the series there is nothing else like it almost like it itself was an outclass of the industry
And yeah now I'm looking far to deep lol
There's never looking to deep around here 🤣 I think the series conveys meaninglessness, but I don't think it itself is meaningless. There's definitely a commentary on society within it, the way their rules are really just a reshaping of our own world's, but the presentation of it which breaks story telling norms, is what provides the idea of meaninglessness. The pieces have a point, but the sum caries the idea of not having a point
Oh seems like I misunderstod your message on the video, yeah then I agree xd expecially with how the anime ends it really supports that point
I think this video finally gave me satisfaction with Sonny Boy. Especially, I agree with the 16:58 part. I'm also not sure about the anime: I wanted to like it, and I wanted it to have a deeper meaning. I just wasn't satisfied with the common explanation some people gave it that "It was all random and all was for nothing because life itself is very random". But you have proven your point to me, and now I think I can accept it. This is really not what I was expecting: I saw a cool trailer, cool music and great animation, heard that this anime is "deep", and expected and instant 10/10 for myself. Now I'd say it's about 7-8 for me. Everything is great but the story.
So thank you for the video! :)
No problem, I'm glad there was something in it for you : ) I do think Sonny Boy has a point, and that point is emphasizing how powerful the acceptance of meaninglessness can be. Whether that is a meaning in itself is more up for debate and semantics though, and I'm not sure myself. I think it accomplished that point very well though, and for that I like it. But, I agree on rating, I think I have it as a 7 currently
If everything is pointless then I say everything has a point ...
If everything is meaningless. then the fact that everything is meaningless has no meaning.
This is the kind of logic which makes these matters so interesting to me. If we say everything is meaningless, than even that fact itself has no power
@@ProfessorViral Yes exactly, the whole topic has made me sad in the past but this logic has helped me with it. It's from the RUclipsr Whatifalthist (Twelve Lies about Reality).
Sonny boy is basically the history of humanity but told in a simple way which make us all realise how stupid we were and how we let hte world go a drift. Every generation is basically always "graduating", learning to be humans, having all the hopes and dreams and the world on our control. Somo people have special powers, other say they hear the word of god. Some of those powers are other animals. We saw with the 5000 year old dog, that the animal represent a human, but that was conquered by some old king and now is his dog. like some nations are dogs of other . I mean the fact that there are still kings and queens. The other animals in the world? cats. also humans. probably showing slavery or child labor or something. the ugly special power, one of the big reasons why we went adrift. The chick that dies represents hope. and how she died? while killing dead. in a place that looked like a gigant wound in the world... not counting the guy that was blown away and they ask "is this war? doesnt look like war". a clear reference of the atomic bomb. "While conquering this world "war" by killing war, hope was killed... it was an accident" .
That has to be prove enough. The main guy is probably just the average white guy, and its shown as the example of so much. people hate him and blame him for going a dirft and most of them dont even know why. part of this hate is waht make the fuking super kid not save hope. you have the flash back of the guys fight for the 2 hairs. thats it. by killing hope, he killed himself. all the story was just that (just like in the real world) humans are one and the same, 2 side of the same coin fighting for a single hair. and when we finally defeat ourselfs. we would have killed ourselfs.
Like the story of the jesus/buda/embodiment of humanity with indian acent said. from a far, it would look like humanity its just that guy obssesed with the concept of death until he finally achieved it.
Also because my indian guru is the embodiment of humanity he doesnt go outside the planet at the end, he is 2000 as modern human era I guess and he leaves behind and progress comes with evolutions...
Any who, I was on acid but Im preatty sure its a simplistic/philosophic/anime interpretaton of how to explain how the world is were it is today and how inside of all that pain and meaninglessness you can still keep going. the hope chiks says it to the main guy. "if any of us remember, we strech our hand and ask do you want to be my frien".
and thats it. If we want to continue we need that. recognize that if we kill our brother we are killing ourselves... that also means that if we help our brother, we are helping ourselves. that why at the end the hope chikc gos with the other dude. at the end it doesnt matter. we as humans will keep goign. with hope on our side, and believing, that little by little people will remember all that we been throug, that we are a drift, but that we can still go home.
namaste
I think the biggest war all people face is the war of structure vs absurdity (I doubt few people will understand what I mean)
"How does one find meaning in a fundamentally meaningless world?" By sharing that meaningless with the only other thing able to understand it. Us. Humanity. Life.
as person i live life because i can not because it has meaning
I'm not sure I got the point about the world being meaningless were beings to hold an inherent purpose.
Like, yeah, of course things *wouldn't* be meaningless if things would have purposes, they're in direct opposition. I think this kind of confusion could only arise in thinking that the purposes would be brute facts (just thrown out for no reason), and as such, not really meaningful themselves. But there's no reason to assume this.
Nyamazon is very cute to me 🥺
I support it and it's replacement of billionaires with cute cats lol
i don't think it's accurate to say we're assuming Nagura and Nozume shake on their promise. sure we don't see the final few frames of their hands making contact but not only does he clearly reach to shake her hand, he also audibly expresses consent w a "mmhmm"
it is lowkey soul-crushing that he appears not to intend to make good on it 😞. that was the only part of the show that made me sad and it really hit hard
fiero
Does sonny boy have a dub?
It has one, but it's still 'airing' currently. When I watched it, only 3 episodes were dubbed so far
Павловна
Me at ep 7... Feels like wasting my time watching this anime. The story is confusing... All over the place. 5 more episode to go but the feeling to drop it is getting stronger.
This was definitely isn't for everyone, so thats fair
I think the anime got a lot of ablert camus absurdity
Maybe the teacher appeared in that world because she couldn’t let her students go. Maybe she didn’t want them to graduate and forget about her? She cared about power but disliked her students so that doesn’t make sense. Idk lots of ideas here…
she likely was a fake, just another student that used their power to transform into that appearance, she was entirely selfish, just using and manipulating others to do her bidding.
Sonny boy nihilism 2nd place
Monster nihilism 1st place
I still need to check out Monster, the episode count always makes me have to put it aside though to stay on schedule
Do you know about mbti? I've read some stuff about it, and you seem like the INTP archetype came into life. Maybe it might be fun for you to read up about yourself, who knows
To be honest, Yamabiko's backstory was the only part I enjoyed at some level. I get that it has meaning and metafors and such, but if it can't tie it together with an actual story, it's not a masterpiece for me. I feel I just wasted my time watching it. Good video tho
I would definitely argue for the merits of Sonny Boy's story, but I can agree that Yamabiko's story, and for me the other more singular stories (the "twins," the tower, etc) were some of the best moments of the anime
Pp
Man why do you sound like that
vocal chords
meaningless cringe
SERIOUSLY you eatching anime in english ??? you have 0 of my respect
Since I get this a lot, I'll keep it short:
-They make for a cleaner easier to edit video
-They're much easier for me to take notes on, personally
-And being able to play english audio helps people who listen over watch get the full content of the video
It's not a matter of which is superior; it's a matter of what works better for me
your respect has 0 meaning in this absurd world anyway.
This channels is a fraud. "Optimistic Nihilism" what an oxymoron.
??? OK, so you either don't understand what "Optimistic" means or what "Nihilism" is. Or maybe you don't know the definition of oxymoron.
In any case, I don't think you quite understand anything you just said
@@TheWaross Wow the Professor jump to the burner account. Calm down boy, i give you a tip: read about Nishitani Keiji and their essays about the Madhyamaka school. You could probably could understand much better about the position of Natsume Shingo and why the incongruity about "Optimistic Nihilism"
@@TehAsdfg IF you can't manage to understand basic philosophical concepts like nihilism, I can't really help you here boy.
Idk what you got against this guys channel but you seem a little tense. Maybe eat a snickers and meditate a little, but you got issues kiddo.
So again, you probably don't know what an oxymoron is and I'm guessing you're fairly young so good luck. You'll probably mature some in the next few years when you're out of highschool.
In the meantime, try to read some Nietzsch
Optimistic nihilism is not a contradiction. Nihilism is simply the belief that everyone is meaningless. It's not pessimistic, it's apathetic. Optimistic nihilism is learning to take your own, subjective and individualised meaning into your own life. It's what Rajdhani did, being optimistic and accepting that everyone being meaningless is what gives it meaning,.
Rather than restating what was already well said, I'm gonna up Megumin's comment here!