Thank You for that great demonstration on the GNS 530. It was one of the best Units when it first came out, but it got old and nothing will replace the GNS 750 now. The bad thing is the price on the 750, sometimes it can cost more than a regular 2 seater trainer.
Hi there, Brian, thank you for the good demonstration. Is it possible to make a 360 degree turn using GNS 430 and VOR? Sort of holding pattern, or smth. Thank you
If you just wanted to do a 360 to waste some time, sure, you can just do that and ignore the navigator. If you're close to a fix, though, it might want to sequence to the next waypoint. To prevent that, you can press the OBS button, which will suspend waypoint sequencing, until you're done with your maneuver, then press it again to resume the route. Hopefully that answers the question you were asking?
I'd like to know if I'm understanding one thing correctly. It seems that the 4NM hold legs have an interesting consequence: the machine calculates the teardrop heading in order to proceed to the exact point where the outbound leg should terminate and where the inbound turn should be initiated in order to result in a 4 NM inbound leg established on the inbound course. A "normal" teardrop entry (in my old freight dog's perception) in a timed hold would call for a heading of 046 upon passing CAZBY, then fly for 1 minute, then turn inbound. The "calculated" entry seems to create a fix that will be the inbound turn point, then calculates a heading to navigate to that fix. I'm assuming that it is dependent on the aircraft's speed and that the teardrop heading would "drift" somewhat more northerly with a higher speed, in a "redrawn" pattern. Am I correct?
I think you're mostly correct. I'm playing with it now on the simulator, and it seems to calculate a track (not a heading) that it wants to fly outbound for a teardrop entry, that will put it at the 4NM (or whatever the hold is) distance, and the right place from which to start the inbound turn. That track does seem to vary based on groundspeed, so I believe it's calculating the correct track to put you at the proper point. The actual dimensions of a holding pattern's protected area are very complex (almost a dozen pages in the TERPS document), but near as I can tell, there is something like 6 miles of space on this particular pattern on the holding side. So, more space there than there is length of the pattern itself. This is to say that there is quite a lot of wiggle room and a difference of a degree or two on that outbound leg is almost inconsequential. Nobody's going to get out there with a yardstick and send you a letter if you're off by a few tenths of a mile!
Thank you for the video. I just purchased a FS210 to use with 2 GNS 430W units. It is being installed presently, so I have not played with it yet. You made mention that you have a Flight Stream 210. You also talked about Foreflight and its ability to create arbitrary holding way points. Then you said there was no way to put those holds into the GNS430/530. I understand that without the 210 but can you shoot it to the Navigator with the 210?
Hello! Is there a way to drop a random waypoint at a certain DME on a VOR radial on the 530W (without flying over it first...) If that were possible, you could put one on the screen for an unpublished hold as the inbound leg fix, and then put another one on the screen for the start of the outbound leg. That would make an easy holding pattern on the screen.
From Cap'n Mike: Yes. As always, there are a couple ways to do it. Both of them requires first making a User Waypoint. Working from memory, You can go to the User Waypoints page (from the map page, big knob all the way right, then "little knob" over to about page 6 or 7 or so). I think from there, you can just do a little knob twist to start making a user waypoint and do the “Twist and Shout” method to enter fix/radial/distance or fix/radial/fix/radial parameters to define the point. Then, just remember what you called that point, and you can insert it into a flight plan. There are other ways, too… go to Nav page 2, push to get a cursor, press Menu, and one of the options is to Create User Waypoint. Same technique from there.
@@TheProficientPilot Awesome. Thanks! If you could do that when in the air, you could make it the fix for entering a non published hold, and maybe drop one for the start of the outbound leg so the pattern would be easier to see on the screen.
More: The easiest way to create a waypoint is to go to Nav page 2 and press CRSR, the twist the knobs enough so that no feature is highlighted; so you just have the arrow key displayed. Then press ENT, and highlight "Create User Wpt?" and press ENT. On this page, you can twist the big knob up to the USR box to enter a name, or it'll fill in with a XXXX numeric name which you can just use that one if you can remember the number it's making. The big deal is to scroll down to the REF WPT box and enter the fix , radial , and either distance or, the second fix/radial. Then scroll down to Create? and press ENT. Now you can use that same waypoint in any flight plan, or direct to, just like you use any other waypoint.
One further comment. Just came from Sun and Fun. I have ordered the Flight Stream 21 which will be installed by Sarasota Avionics in a couple of months. After much discussion with Garmin, and Sarasota, I am told that one can in fact transfer the ForeFlight Flight Plans to the 430/530 with this device.
Yes, flight plan transfer both directions between ForeFlight and the GNS is possible. And awesome! As long as your route involves named fixes it works great. User defined waypoints are usually a bit more problematic. I have an extra program I put up a while back where I shot some video in my airplane, on the ground, transferring flight plans back and forth. Take a look here: ruclips.net/video/1jvduSi8FEI/видео.html
I wish I could have attended this. Something came up and I had to watch it "after" the fact. This was outstanding. It actually answered something that happened to me a few weeks ago when I was doing multiple approaches at the same airport in IMC. If I have questions, how do I get them to you? Rick
With an active approach, will the GPS ALWAYS sequence to the FAF after one turn in holding for the procedure turn? I swear I've seen them go into SUSP mode by themselves. I'm uncertain when it does this automatically and when it doesn't.
I haven't done exhaustive testing on this, but it seems like, if the hold is prior to the approach, as in a HILPT, it makes you go one time around the hold, and then will proceed inbound. If you want to remain in the hold, you have to press the OBS button so that it annunciates the SUSP indication. On the other hand, if it's the hold at the end of the approach, as in a missed approach hold, and there are no fixes after the holding point in the flight plan, it will default to SUSP mode and remain in the hold. In either case, my solution is the same: On your way inbound to the holding fix, make sure you have the indication you want to have. If you want to stay in the hold, make sure SUSP is indicated, and if you want to leave, make sure it's not.
I have a Cessna 310Q and am finding Waypoint holds a challenge. Thanks for the video. Helps a lot. Would it be correct to say that on the outbound track, I should be looking at 1.5 - 1.7 miles from the inbound track? Also, in your last example of how to deal with an unpublished hold, the inbound track was 031, which you referred to as the 031 radial. Is this not inbound on the 210 radial? Thanks in advance!
Great choice of airplane! (I got my AMEL class rating in a 310R back in the day) Do you mean 1.5-1.7 miles offset from the inbound track? Or do you mean start your inbound turn when you're 1.5-1.7 miles from the holding fix? Both are dependent upon your speed, and altitude of the holding pattern. Depending on those, the length of the protected area for a holding pattern can range from 14.4NM to 84.9NM, and the width can vary from 8.8NM to 47NM (those values taken from FAA Order 8260.3D, or TERPS, table 17-6-1). Those figures include pretty wide margins for winds while they're at it. If the pattern is a timed pattern, as opposed to a mileage pattern, I usually just fly outbound until the ETE next fix figure is 1 minute, then turn inbound. If you mean the one last hold at about 1+12 or so into the show, if I said radial, I made a typo with my mouth! It is indeed the 211 radial, or 031 inbound course. This stuff is not confusing at all!
@@CapnMikeCFI I was referring to offset from the inbound track. Trying to find a way to equate a Waypoint Hold to a VOR Hold, where instead of the CDI offset, it’s the GPS performing the same function. Does that make sense?!
@@pilotbarbie Remember that, when holding with a ground-based navaid, pretty much everything to do with the hold is defined by the inbound course. That's the only leg of the hold that actually tracks a navaid, and the rest of it is essentially dead reckoning. So, even when outbound in the hold, you're not tracking anything, you're just flying a heading, for a time (or a distance). While holding with a GPS (or any RNAV type system), that's a bit different. As I mentioned in the program, if the GNS doesn't know about the holding pattern you want to do, you end up having to fly it manually, using the heading bug, and only intercepting the inbound course at the completion of the inbound turn. Therefore, just fly a standard rate turn, time (or measure distance) for the outbound leg in an effort to make the inbound leg of the appropriate time (or distance), and you're good to go. Not being able to make up an "arbitrary" hold wherever you want is one of the few negatives of these GNS units. (the other being no ability to do airways).
There is no easy way to insert current database information into the simulator. I've been told some have done it, but it requires computer skills beyond mine.
Thanks for your input. I value it. We'll try to keep that to a minimum. Perhaps we'll save questions for the end. However, sometimes it's helpful to address them as they come up (at least it is for the question asker). Also, since we're already on the right page and unit mode, we can answer the question faster if we handle it live. I understand though, that we are taking everyones time to answer one person's question. It is our hope that there would be others who have the same question.
Great stuff Brian. Mike is such an awesome wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for taking the time to say so - Mike certainly knows his stuff!
Thank You for that great demonstration on the GNS 530. It was one of the best Units when it first came out, but it got old and nothing will replace the GNS 750 now. The bad thing is the price on the 750, sometimes it can cost more than a regular 2 seater trainer.
You're welcome - standby for more. Never say never!
I'm getting ready for my IR check ride.Thanks for your help. Amaizing video.
Excellent. Glad it helps. Good luck on your ride!
Hi there, Brian, thank you for the good demonstration. Is it possible to make a 360 degree turn using GNS 430 and VOR? Sort of holding pattern, or smth. Thank you
If you just wanted to do a 360 to waste some time, sure, you can just do that and ignore the navigator. If you're close to a fix, though, it might want to sequence to the next waypoint. To prevent that, you can press the OBS button, which will suspend waypoint sequencing, until you're done with your maneuver, then press it again to resume the route. Hopefully that answers the question you were asking?
If not specified, aren't holds right turns by default?
Yes. That is correct.
It's always right to turn right
@@davemccormack8362 not if it's supposed to be left turns.
@@filtermarket9801 any time
Right turns in holds are standard. Only time you will turn left in a hold is when ATC says “left turns”.
staying in the hold @26:40
I'd like to know if I'm understanding one thing correctly. It seems that the 4NM hold legs have an interesting consequence: the machine calculates the teardrop heading in order to proceed to the exact point where the outbound leg should terminate and where the inbound turn should be initiated in order to result in a 4 NM inbound leg established on the inbound course. A "normal" teardrop entry (in my old freight dog's perception) in a timed hold would call for a heading of 046 upon passing CAZBY, then fly for 1 minute, then turn inbound. The "calculated" entry seems to create a fix that will be the inbound turn point, then calculates a heading to navigate to that fix. I'm assuming that it is dependent on the aircraft's speed and that the teardrop heading would "drift" somewhat more northerly with a higher speed, in a "redrawn" pattern. Am I correct?
I think you're mostly correct. I'm playing with it now on the simulator, and it seems to calculate a track (not a heading) that it wants to fly outbound for a teardrop entry, that will put it at the 4NM (or whatever the hold is) distance, and the right place from which to start the inbound turn. That track does seem to vary based on groundspeed, so I believe it's calculating the correct track to put you at the proper point. The actual dimensions of a holding pattern's protected area are very complex (almost a dozen pages in the TERPS document), but near as I can tell, there is something like 6 miles of space on this particular pattern on the holding side. So, more space there than there is length of the pattern itself. This is to say that there is quite a lot of wiggle room and a difference of a degree or two on that outbound leg is almost inconsequential. Nobody's going to get out there with a yardstick and send you a letter if you're off by a few tenths of a mile!
@@CapnMikeCFI phew! I am relieved. More seriously, that confirms what I thought, thanks for taking the time to reply.
@@CapnMikeCFI and for correcting me on the track vs heading distinction, track was what I meant
Thank you for the video. I just purchased a FS210 to use with 2 GNS 430W units. It is being installed presently, so I have not played with it yet. You made mention that you have a Flight Stream 210. You also talked about Foreflight and its ability to create arbitrary holding way points. Then you said there was no way to put those holds into the GNS430/530. I understand that without the 210 but can you shoot it to the Navigator with the 210?
You can put the fix in the flight plan, but I haven't had any success throwing a holding pattern to the x30W with a 210.
Hello! Is there a way to drop a random waypoint at a certain DME on a VOR radial on the 530W (without flying over it first...) If that were possible, you could put one on the screen for an unpublished hold as the inbound leg fix, and then put another one on the screen for the start of the outbound leg. That would make an easy holding pattern on the screen.
From Cap'n Mike:
Yes. As always, there are a couple ways to do it. Both of them requires first making a User Waypoint. Working from memory, You can go to the User Waypoints page (from the map page, big knob all the way right, then "little knob" over to about page 6 or 7 or so). I think from there, you can just do a little knob twist to start making a user waypoint and do the “Twist and Shout” method to enter fix/radial/distance or fix/radial/fix/radial parameters to define the point. Then, just remember what you called that point, and you can insert it into a flight plan.
There are other ways, too… go to Nav page 2, push to get a cursor, press Menu, and one of the options is to Create User Waypoint. Same technique from there.
@@TheProficientPilot
Awesome. Thanks! If you could do that when in the air, you could make it the fix for entering a non published hold, and maybe drop one for the start of the outbound leg so the pattern would be easier to see on the screen.
More:
The easiest way to create a waypoint is to go to Nav page 2 and press CRSR, the twist the knobs enough so that no feature is highlighted; so you just have the arrow key displayed. Then press ENT, and highlight "Create User Wpt?" and press ENT. On this page, you can twist the big knob up to the USR box to enter a name, or it'll fill in with a XXXX numeric name which you can just use that one if you can remember the number it's making. The big deal is to scroll down to the REF WPT box and enter the fix , radial , and either distance or, the second fix/radial. Then scroll down to Create? and press ENT.
Now you can use that same waypoint in any flight plan, or direct to, just like you use any other waypoint.
One further comment. Just came from Sun and Fun. I have ordered the Flight Stream 21 which will be installed by Sarasota Avionics in a couple of months. After much discussion with Garmin, and Sarasota, I am told that one can in fact transfer the ForeFlight Flight Plans to the 430/530 with this device.
Yes, flight plan transfer both directions between ForeFlight and the GNS is possible. And awesome! As long as your route involves named fixes it works great. User defined waypoints are usually a bit more problematic. I have an extra program I put up a while back where I shot some video in my airplane, on the ground, transferring flight plans back and forth. Take a look here: ruclips.net/video/1jvduSi8FEI/видео.html
Thanks MIke. Most helpful.
I wish I could have attended this. Something came up and I had to watch it "after" the fact. This was outstanding. It actually answered something that happened to me a few weeks ago when I was doing multiple approaches at the same airport in IMC. If I have questions, how do I get them to you? Rick
Email Mike with questions at: CapnMikeGPS@gmail.com
@@BrianSchiff We've already made contact. Thanks very much - Rick
What does that mean “in battle”?
With an active approach, will the GPS ALWAYS sequence to the FAF after one turn in holding for the procedure turn? I swear I've seen them go into SUSP mode by themselves. I'm uncertain when it does this automatically and when it doesn't.
I haven't done exhaustive testing on this, but it seems like, if the hold is prior to the approach, as in a HILPT, it makes you go one time around the hold, and then will proceed inbound. If you want to remain in the hold, you have to press the OBS button so that it annunciates the SUSP indication. On the other hand, if it's the hold at the end of the approach, as in a missed approach hold, and there are no fixes after the holding point in the flight plan, it will default to SUSP mode and remain in the hold. In either case, my solution is the same: On your way inbound to the holding fix, make sure you have the indication you want to have. If you want to stay in the hold, make sure SUSP is indicated, and if you want to leave, make sure it's not.
Where can I find Part 1 in this series on 430/530? I can only find IV and VII
www.captainschiff.com/gns101
I have a Cessna 310Q and am finding Waypoint holds a challenge. Thanks for the video. Helps a lot. Would it be correct to say that on the outbound track, I should be looking at 1.5 - 1.7 miles from the inbound track? Also, in your last example of how to deal with an unpublished hold, the inbound track was 031, which you referred to as the 031 radial. Is this not inbound on the 210 radial? Thanks in advance!
Great choice of airplane! (I got my AMEL class rating in a 310R back in the day)
Do you mean 1.5-1.7 miles offset from the inbound track? Or do you mean start your inbound turn when you're 1.5-1.7 miles from the holding fix? Both are dependent upon your speed, and altitude of the holding pattern. Depending on those, the length of the protected area for a holding pattern can range from 14.4NM to 84.9NM, and the width can vary from 8.8NM to 47NM (those values taken from FAA Order 8260.3D, or TERPS, table 17-6-1). Those figures include pretty wide margins for winds while they're at it. If the pattern is a timed pattern, as opposed to a mileage pattern, I usually just fly outbound until the ETE next fix figure is 1 minute, then turn inbound.
If you mean the one last hold at about 1+12 or so into the show, if I said radial, I made a typo with my mouth! It is indeed the 211 radial, or 031 inbound course. This stuff is not confusing at all!
@@CapnMikeCFI I was referring to offset from the inbound track. Trying to find a way to equate a Waypoint Hold to a VOR Hold, where instead of the CDI offset, it’s the GPS performing the same function. Does that make sense?!
@@pilotbarbie Remember that, when holding with a ground-based navaid, pretty much everything to do with the hold is defined by the inbound course. That's the only leg of the hold that actually tracks a navaid, and the rest of it is essentially dead reckoning. So, even when outbound in the hold, you're not tracking anything, you're just flying a heading, for a time (or a distance).
While holding with a GPS (or any RNAV type system), that's a bit different. As I mentioned in the program, if the GNS doesn't know about the holding pattern you want to do, you end up having to fly it manually, using the heading bug, and only intercepting the inbound course at the completion of the inbound turn. Therefore, just fly a standard rate turn, time (or measure distance) for the outbound leg in an effort to make the inbound leg of the appropriate time (or distance), and you're good to go.
Not being able to make up an "arbitrary" hold wherever you want is one of the few negatives of these GNS units. (the other being no ability to do airways).
Great job guys!
Thanks, Jim, for taking the time to say so!
Is there a tutorial like this for the Garmin 355/175 navigators??
I don't know of one, but I've reached out to Mike to see if he knows...
How do you get current nav data in this old windows95 Garmin 400/500w simulator? I have the Simulator Installed, but it has very old nav data
There is no easy way to insert current database information into the simulator. I've been told some have done it, but it requires computer skills beyond mine.
Excelente.
Thanks, but the constant answering of extraneous questions is very distracting. I understand however that that is your format. Cheers.
Thanks for your input. I value it. We'll try to keep that to a minimum. Perhaps we'll save questions for the end. However, sometimes it's helpful to address them as they come up (at least it is for the question asker). Also, since we're already on the right page and unit mode, we can answer the question faster if we handle it live. I understand though, that we are taking everyones time to answer one person's question. It is our hope that there would be others who have the same question.
W