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WHY you NEED TO DRY your FILAMENTS!
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- Опубликовано: 10 авг 2018
- Let's me show you how you dry your 3D printing filaments and what the effect on printing quality and strength is.
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I spent 3 days trying to fix my printer then I realized the filament was moist. I switched filaments and it worked great again.
You "released" or you "realised"? :)
Oh good catch. I updated it.
Did u ever dry out the moist roll??
@@elfpimp1 moist....
@@SangheiliSpecOp lol...
This is the most german channel in the world! All those charts, measurements and data gathering is awesome!! Thanks very much
dome dom all except the state of the nozzle! For God's sake Stefan clean your nozzle, you're triggering my ocd 😂
And I think Stefan's MK2 used to have a silicone sock. That Kapton tape patch in the middle of the print bed also triggers my OCD. Is it still there? ;)
Nope, finally changed my PEI quite a while back ;-)
Sorry, that was after a dirty print. Usually I try to keep my nozzles clean ;-)
Lol people
Watched your infill pattern/percentage strength video, and now this one. It is great to see not just advice, but practical experimentation to demonstrate the suitability of that advice. Thank you for taking the time to log your results, plotting them in a meaningful way, and then sharing them with us.
Another truly informative and useful video from a channel that has become essential viewing for those of us designing and printing functional parts. As a bonus, the beautifully done videography, video editing, and graphics make the videos a pleasure to watch.
Thanks mate!
Good to see this covered for a material like PETG. I store even PLA in dry boxes when possible and it helps with quality.
Was getting ready to throw out a roll of ABS, saw the exact issues you spelled out: stringing, snapping sounds, steam, bubbling.
Roasted it for 12 hours just below GT, tired again, perfection!
Pacific Northwest tends to have high humidity, worse in the winter.
Only one roll of PLA [bronze, metal filled] has ever needed roasting right from the factory.
Everything now stored in individual freezer-bags; each roll with its own desiccant pack, roast the desiccant packs every month to keep them active.
This is so brilliant! It’s always so easy to over look the little things when tackling tough projects but this video shows just how important seemingly small details, such as drying filament, can have such a huge impact on a final product. Thanks so much for posting this video and doing all of this research!!!
I'd like to see the same tests with PLA.
Me too.
Me too! I almost exclusively print PLA and have had no troubles so far, but now my printer is in a basement that might be somewhat more humid than my room. Girlfriend complained about the noise.
I got my first 3D printer about 11 months ago. Prints came out beautifully, and I was quite happy. I was using PLA. All winter, with low humidity, I just left the spools out when convenient, and in one-gallon zip lock bags otherwise. As spring came and the humidity went up, I started getting problems similar to the ones shown here. It took me a while to figure out what was happening (remember this was my 1st 3D printer!)
me too!
Me too. Mostly the influence on annealing, shrinkage and mechanical properties, before and after annealing
I paused the video to compute how much energy it would take to dry my filament. Later I resumed your video and realized you computed it for us. you really think of everything when you make these videos!
Thank you so much for taking the time to add proper subtitles and not relying on auto generated
Thanks for doing this testing. I always thought that my PETG had moisture in it. Now I definitely know I do, and how to correct it. Your videos are really well done and the research you put into them is superb. Thanks again!
pro tip: "crystal" cat litter is the cheapest and most widely available source to get a lot of silicagel. just fill old socks or so with it. before using it as a dessicant, it needs to be dried in the oven or microwave, though. holding a spoon over it, and looking for condensation, is a great indicator to see if it's actually dry.
(the cat litter comes partially saturated, so it doesnt stick to a cat's slightly damp paw pads. cats despise sticky things.)
PS: if you arent in a hurry, a few days near a heater, in an airtight bag with plenty of dessicant, revives most soggy spools.
Please do one of these analyses on ABS. There are many in the 3d printing community who believe that somehow only nylon and PC absorb moisture and ABS is immune - prove them wrong!
ABS certainly does absorb moisture, but it does not undergo hydrolysis.
I would like to see the same tests on ABS and PLA.
@@KoochDawg hydrolysis will affect the material itself, but any wet material will get bubbles.
I can prove this right now. New abs spool I bought 1.5 year ago is currently bubbling in my CR10
This worked so well for me! I did a modification like how you did for yours and I'm surprised it really worked! Did about 8 or 9 hours of dehydrating and my prints are looking significantly better! I thought I'd have to throw out my material and buy new ones, so I'm so glad I came across this video. Thank you!
Thank you for this great channel! I watch Angus and Joel as well, and they make great videos, but your scientific approach really adds value, and as I design mostly functional parts, the tests you perform are very useful. Danke sehr!
I truly appreciate your scientific approach and your succinct explanations. You provide a great service with excellent information.
Bartgalok Hulugu Agreed- this video is a graduate level thesis for a phd
Very nice and informative. Not too wordy and no ego. Thanks so much.
Thanks for another great video. Now I'll do a test print with a few filaments I have, after I "bake" them a bit, since they normally "pop" a bit when printing.
Hey Stefan, I also noticed humidity affects the surface finish of PLA a massive amount especially when "ironing" a top flat surface. In the summertime where humidity can reach 60%+ in my place the surface finish from "ironing" is very poor. In the wintertime where humidity is currently 34% in my place the surface finish from "ironing" comes out great. Do you have any data on controlling the storage environment of PLA to improve the surface finish for "ironing"?
“Hands… up! Which of you has not been storing your filament correctly?”
Great video, excellent editing, nice humour and a great message! Thank you.
This is so freaking informative. Thanks for the extreme thoroughness. I'm going to take drying my filament a lot more seriously now.
When building a home made dryer, it makes sense to have an area that is heated for the spools and an unheated area for the desiccant. Desiccants take up water much better when cool. You can relay on hot air rising to take the air from the heater up past the spools. When the air reaches the lid, it will cool and want to sink back down. If your desiccant is off to one side and in racks, the cooler air will fall past it. A wall with a gap at the top and bottom can keep the falling cool air away from the rising warm air.
I have built a thing like this for a different purpose and it worked well.
25 watt dehumidifier on amazon $20
100 quart storage bin at local big box store $10
25 watt reptile or seedling heating pad on amazon $10
silica gel indicator on amazon $15
It won't dry your filament in a few hours. But I keep all my rolls in that $55 bin and they get dry in a week or two. I don't burn thru filament like crazy, I could see needing a specialized box that only fits one roll if I imminently needed dry filament. Silica gel helps in case the power goes out and you haven't emptied the dehu tank and it's nice to not have to recharge the beads in the microwave so often.
I don't have lot experienc in 3d printing. So small details like dry filaments can cause me tons of head pain) like i got spool of filament printed some models, and then keep it for some time. After i back after few month and try to print by the same spool it is became wicked, and i got thru cycle of temperature rising, leveling, extruder adjustments, even nozle cleaning, and all this measures worked somehow for +- stable prints. And after i saw this video i realised problem ) and why my spool became unstable. Thanks for sharing knowledge, and really nice experiments.
I find the way 3d printed parts break extremely interesting as they break in a very different way to anything else
I just bought my first 3d printer and learned the hard way. I destroyed the extruder by running a print all night and not knowing the filament was moist. $80 later for a new extruder. Thanks for this video. I’ll be making a humidifier box for my filaments
Another $80 later: "...uh, I meant de-humidifier box..."
PLA is my only filament right now, so I'd love to see the same tests on them! Thanks for the convincing! Ordering a Dehydrator.
Very helpful video, drying the filament in the oven is def the way to go. Your idea of boxing up the filament roll during a print is pretty clever, I like that idea👌I store my filament in large ziplock vaccum bags, they are usually sold for storing clothes
Again an awesome vid mate, as always , love your work !
Just a pro tip regarding those round food dehydrators: You don't necessarily need to cut up the trays that come with the machine. I discovered that you can use a single tray on the bottom and then put a 3.5 or 5 gallon bucket on top of it. Drill four 3/8" (9.5mm) on the bottom of the bucket for air to escape. Works perfectly. This lets me keep the other trays clean so I can use them for drying food. I recommend putting a thermometer of some kind inside of it because the numbers on the dial do not correspond well with actual temperature. Also, it's possible to over-dry a resin. This is more of a problem with Nylon. Over-drying results in increased viscosity, which can cause its own problems during printing. You usually want to shoot for three to four hours at between 50C-116C depending on the specific resin. If you're unsure of what temp to use, literally google the resin type with the words "drying temperature" after it. You can also hold the temperature at about 30-35C indefinitely without any detrimental effects. This won't actually dry the filament if it is moist, but if the filament is already dry, it will maintain it.
Very good. Thank you for producing such accurate tests. This lot of information is very important for someone living at the beach, where humidity is a problem - and worse than that, having just bought a new 3d printer. Out of the box, some PLA+ that I bought about a week ago just started clicking with moisture. I went desperate.
I can never find a bad video made by this guy. Awesome stuff, always! Thanks for posting, your channel encouraged me to buy my first 3D printer!
I guess you could say this video took 2 years to make (including the filament incubation hahaha) amaziingg :D
Good stuff! I suspect this may be part of my current printing issue, but severe bed and self adhesion issues didn't seem to be solely from moisture issues.
AWESOME VIDEO! You have made me a believer in my printer again. I was just about to give up because of the excessive stringing which I could not program out. Now I know it is the filament.
Fantastic structured video. With a lot of factual information. Thank you kindly for your advice.
I have a moist PETG, i dried it for 5 hours @ 55C and didnt change that much
I am now going to dry it at 65C
A maker can get a cheap dehydrator and for extra $20 a tp-link smart plug switch. Now set that knob to the temp (60C for PLA) and set the smart plug to run 6h. In Florida in a garage, PLA gets wet in days. My first run with wet PLA, I did not realize that it can clog the hotend. I ended up replacing part after part. Till I figured it only happened with PLA that was out for a couple of weeks and never with new spool. Dehydrator was the key for perfect prints,
This is most incredible channel i ever seen! Thanks for your shares.
Thank You for another Super Excellent video. It is so nice to see stuff from someone who has such a knowledgeable and methodical approach!
I keep all the filament stored at 32 Degrees Celsius all the time (dry room). Since I do this I had 0 trouble. TPU, PLA, ABS, PETG, etc.
This is great info.As a VERY new 3D printing nerd, I had no idea. I will store my filament in a bin with that absorbent stuff.
Dang! This is the most thorough video I have ever seen lol. Well done, and thank you!!
This is really useful information, haven't even bought my first 3D printer yet, but I'll certainly make sure to store the filament as dry as possible.
ahh...that crispy sound that tells you its time to try your filament! Excellent vid/info!
Would love to see a video similar to this, comparing the effect of moisture on different types of common filament. pla, petg, abs, asa, etc.
I like to use a vacuum chamber (it's just an aluminium stock pot) and a hot plate...just space the spools off the bottom of the chamber with insulation and let everything heat soak up to around 150f, then pull vacuum for an hour or two. It comes out nice and dry
As someone that has never dried my filament, and have had "no" problems.....today I tried drying it and.......... DRY YOUR FILAMENT
Thank for this video, it's good to see the results of some tests. I've had similar issues with the hot and humid summer we've had. I ended up building a storage drawer for my filament that is fed dry air from the internal parts of a food dehydrator that is controlled by a Raspberry pi with temp & humidity sensors. It has helped.
That sounds a bit over-engineered 😉
CNC Kitchen you are probably right! But we all need projects to keep us busy. This drying drawer is installed in an old half-height server rack that I have. Ultimately my printer will be inside that rack as well and I will be able to control temperature and humidity within its enclosure to. Is it necessary? Probably not. But I had most of the parts sitting around already anyway. :)
Mine is stored in my shed outside always cold wet air. The prints are decent. I have the ikea enclosure. I print ABS
I always store my pla in a big plastic bag with a couple of silica gel packets between prints. Works fine
Basically, if you are doing low detail mechanical prints with stable materials you are probably good with dry stored filament.
If you are printing high detail or artistic prints or use sensitive filament, you better make sure and dry it out again right before printing.
yea my oven runs on gas so it is tons more humid than electric. So I got a dehydrator for my filament. Toaster ovens I have found do not go low enough for the cheap models while a cheap dehydrator has control in the range that filaments are dried at.
Under appreciated you tuber! So glad I found you! Keep up the great work!!
Interesting project 👍
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
It is so funny to see the Kerbschlagbiegeversuch (the pendulum thingy) in a RUclipsvideo. I needed to perform it during my studies "Materialwissenschaften" and hated it. However, in this context, I love to see these experiments and the results actually mean sth. to me, eventually.
Excellent video! I'm certainly going to review my filament storage arrangements as a result.
I just tape the box that the spool comes in, poke a hole and tape the sides shut leaving the desiccant in the box. Simple and easy, but i'm only using PLA and am a newb.
Great video! Although for the testing with filament that has the most moisture, it would've been helpful if the filament experienced the more realistic conditions of being left in room air over the course of a humid summer or two, rather than being left in a plastic bag with a moist towel (because nobody does the thing with a moist towel). There might be a significant difference in water concentration in the filament and how far the water is penetrated into the filament.
I'm thinking about building a dehydrator on the buildplate of my printer. Some isolation, add walls and the temperature sets itself
I've heard that if the spool is not pefroated the spool won't allow the air the flow to dry the filament
Does putting a roll of filament on the heated bed work in drying the filament? I've seen people do it on the cr-10 and they put a blanket on top to keep the heat in
Not the worst idea. I'd put a bigger container on top and regularly lift that to get rid of the moist air.
Awesome, as always,... Thank you.
I've only ever dehydrated TPU before printing. A couple hours in the oven at 160ºF makes a huge difference, but after watching the video, I may go much longer next time, as well as try it out on other materials. I had a hell of a time getting print parameters for PETG to print a watertight container, and I never did get it 100%. Maybe drying out the filament first would help!
Subbed - if this sorts my filament issues, you sir.. are a gentleman.
Interestingly, my PLA+ Spool from DasFilament had some water, thats why I watched this video. When I was finished watching the video, I looked at the printer again and noticed that the bubbles were gone. So it seems only the outer layers of the spool were contaminated. I just got myself a box to build a filament box with attached feed lines, just because.
I plan on putting a dehumidifier in my workshop room. Wonder if I should rig an option to divert the exhaust into the print enclosure and spool storage area.
Impressive. Thank you for doing this!
how to best see if you have wet filament, order from matterhackers. you will get full spools still dripping and appallingly bad wrapped (not vac-sealed) spools.
Should re-do this video with newer materials like esun's pla pro, bronze-fill (bronze patina > copper any day), cheetah/chinchilla from ninjaflex, etc etc. There's been a lot of new variations of filament in the last few years and I'd love a video purely discussing each one and how they may or may not react to high humidity.
Thanks for your hard work. Great tests.
some air fryers have a dehydrate function to dry fruit and make jerky. wonder if it would work...
Yes, they probably will. Though you need to be able to control the temperature quite precisely to not melt the material.
here in Yucatan Mexico, is always summer
Could you do tests about mechanical creep among different materials?
Sehr informativ, prima...:-)
...mit Zug- und Kerbschlagversuch.. nicht schlecht
FL
I guess I'm going to have to start looking for a food dehydrator or 2 in the thrift shops. Thanks!
Thank you or doing this video. I always cringe when I see 3D printer "experts" on RUclips storing all their filament exposed on a shelf. What were your results like for PLA? When I first started in this hobby back in 2011, it was always drilled in my head from everyone in the community to store it with desiccant, but nowadays most people just let it chill out on a shelf. Were we all overreacting back then, or have the chemistries changes since then? Thanks again. Cheers!
You should note, that when humidity in room is low, it's not that harmful.
It highly depends on your filament. Nylon is impossible to store just on a shelf whilst PLA will work just fine. I've had rolls of PLA out for months without any issues or differences in printing behaviour.
Mr. Crankydude - Yes, I know all about nylon and other filaments. Nylon usually even has to be dried fresh from the manufacturer. But no one thinks it matters much for PLA. I guess I'll have to do my own version of this experiment for lowly PLA. And Artur, unless you live in the desert, there is plenty of humidity in your home.
I only have one type of PLA with lots of additives which has real moisture problems. All the others are basically fine. I forgot to really point out in the video that moisture becomes a bigger problem, the higher the printing temperature is. If you always print your PLA around 200°C, it should almost always be fine. If you want to increase the layer adhesion and want to use 240°C for example, you might notice moisture even in PLA.
After big projects I usually have left over material that I sometimes use much later. I noticed a little stringing with some year-old Shaxon PLA from Fry's that I print at 205deg. I know it didn't do that when it was new. The house is air conditioned.
I also noticed that the flow continues after the extrusion stops. CNC Kitchen mentioned a possible cause of moisture that I hadn't considered. I thought it might be the result of tension in the Bowden tube.
Maybe I'll get some desiccant and make a bin this year.
This truly was very helpful! Thanks!
It seems I may have found why my prints suck lately. The outer wall is fine, the brim is fine but the top layers are like spaghetti with whispy bits of hair sticking out and bubbles in. I tried everything on the printer with the nozzle temp and found that it got better only when I turned the cooling fan almost off, running it hot and slow. I think I may be cooking the moisture out while it's printing but it's still bad. Only happens with the black PLA which I've had for years.
Thanks
So does moisture, say at saturation point, change the finished parts strength? meaning, after the parts printed optimally, if you leave it outside and it gets wet, is the part weaker until dried?
I'm having issues with surface finish. I have seen some bubbles in extruded plastic strands. The prints looked fine when I was using a 0.4mm nozzle but now that I am using a 0.8mm nozzle the surface of my prints are rough. Drying the filament seems to be a very reasonable solution.
Another well done informative video..thank you.. just want to add that the colored dessicant are toxic inside the blue one mostly i heard stuff like wash hands after touching the orange.. there are the white ones that supposed to be better but with no indication on moisture
Danke für die ganzen diagramme ^^ wie immer supper arbeit!
Great Sunlu, out of the box it has moisture in it. I have a roll of Inland PETG red transparent from 6 years ago that has been sitting out. I've printed a bunch of parts recently without issue. I got this new Sunlu PETG gray here 1/2023, it is total hot garbage constant bubbles. I am actually running 215C extruder temp, something is wrong here. I got another brand of PETG, will return the Sunlu if this new stuff works okay.
You have the best videos. Thanks
Sehr coole Videos.. dann werde ich mir für meinen Drucker einfach eine Kiste bauen mit Temperatursteuerung und schaltschrankheizung.. so ist es immer trocken.. um die Feuchtigkeit raus zu bekommen werde ich den Raum einfach von Zeit zu Zeit mit trockener druckluft spülen..
I made a pressure seal plate, apparently the filament was wet, air at 40 psi goes through the plastic, bought a Sunlu filament dryer.
Good job, as always! You should have more subs!!
Great job on this video. I am very happy to give you a thumbs up. Have you thought about storing your filament under a vacuum to keep the levels of moisture very low?
There is a solution for that on Kickstarter I guess but the normal silica gel desiccant works very well for me.
Best 3D printing channel on youtube
Now i know why my PETG made bubble pop sound
Very nice and thoroughly rigorous scientific method video.
Hi, I am a thermal engineer specializing in dehumidification. When you say that the relative humidity is reduced by increasing the temperature this is ofcause true but there are other ways of reducing relative humidity. One way is to use a compressor to make a cold surface. When humid air passes the surface water condenses and water is thus removed from the air. Another method is by using an adsorbtion dehumidifier that works with a rotating silica gel disc. The air is blown acros half the disc and water is absorbed. On the other half of the disc hot air is blown drying the disc. The disc rotates slowly and this way water is transfered from one air stream to the other. This method is very energy efficient and is capable of reducing the humidity to extremeley low levels. 10% relative humidity is achievable. The other advantage is that there is no water drain neede as the moisture is removed by a hot air stream. I am working on developing a de-humidifier for filament using this principle and I expect the first prototypes to be ready 3 to 6 months from now. There will be 3 versions available. One for mounting one spool inside such that the filament can be kept dry while you print. Another version will be mounted on a cabinet for storing multiple spools. The third option is a box for mounting on any cabinet you desire. If you are interested I might be able to supply you with a prototype for testing when the prototype is ready.
There's another method to dry things, though most people won't want to do this: You need a proper air pump, a glass container with a valve, some silicone and fuming sulfuric acid.
Simply put some sulfuric acid into a small bowl at the bottom of the container, then your plastic above it. Close the container and proceed to create a vacuum with your air pump inside the container.
The vacuum will reduce the boiling point of the water which will thusly gas out. The sulfuric acid is very hygroscopic and will then pull the water from the (thin) air.
If you're worried about temperatures this is the best way to get rid of unwanted water.
Very useful, thank you
I have got a Amazon basics PLA which has a lot of water it
Well. It would be great if you could test PLA in the same manner.
Or maybe just 3 conditions. As I have the feeling my spools could have absorbed some moisture but I can't quite make it out.
Ne also wäre klasse. ABS wäre aus Prinzip auch interessant wenn man mal Zahlen hätte😀
hmm i use 9 euro for 1KG PLA filament from manufacturer site "Polymer film (the filament is waterproof, does not get wet, does not require vacuum packaging and a moisture absorber)" wondering it is not standard in such expensive filaments?
Man this is exactly what is happening to me. Time to get drying!
I haven bothered to dry my filaments be cause I live in a desert and the average humidity is less than 20%. I think Ill do an experiment now to see if drying makes a noticeable difference.
you will barely be able to dry it less than 20% even in your area lol
Perfect place for 3D printing ;-)
@@CNCKitchen I wonder if perfect place for 3D printing also has zero gravity and a vacuum., besides being hot and dry.