The Greatest Video Game Goals | Game/Show | PBS Digital Studios
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2016
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This week, we begin our dive into the elements of a great game by examining goals. Without an end-goal, a game can lose it’s focus. Whether the goals are explicitly set by the game designers or the player themselves, it is important for there to be a strong objective in order to motivate the player. A clearly defined goal will keep the player interested and engaged until it is finally accomplished.
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Whoa, an American Football sweater. Didn't see that coming.
+dellismulligan I get so excited when Jamin wears it.
Saving a princess or saving the universe, such a cliche goal is really just a flavorful way of saying "make it to the end of the game". That's the real goal, just fight (or jump, or puzzle-solve) through to the end and *poof* you saved the thing. Isn't the real goal just killing all the bad guys, jumping across all the platforms, and solving all the puzzles? Using the Mario Brothers example, I'm not focusing on saving the princess but instead focusing on traversing the terrain and reaching the end of the stage. Rescuing the princess seems like more of a reward than a goal.
I agree
***** I'd say the real goal is just to survive and progress as far as possible because that is what most decisions you make in the game are based on.
+Joe McIntosh Yeah just in my case i played the game briefly at a friend's house after he passed the controller to me, and never saw or heard of the storyline. It was still fun.
Big Rigs? Bible Adventures? Someone's on an AVGN kick.
I would love for this channel to do something in collaboration with Extra Credits !!
+whatever3554 I would love for extra credits to speak with a normal voice over.
+Pine Straker it's just a troll, ignore it.
whatever3554 Who me?
I watch ExtraCredits, I just prefer they drop the voice, if it doesn't serve a purpose. (Like, people criticize RLM's Plinkett reviews, but the voice that's put on serves a comedy element.)
Give me one reason as to how the voice benefits the channel? It's tolerated at best, and turns off viewers at worst.
I can barely stand their ideological crap each on their own already, I don't want to see them combined.
The voice doesn't really bother me. I guess they use it as someone uses a different voice for a puppet?
The interesting thing about Super Mario Bros. is that it, like many other games, actually presents you with two goals: Reach the end, and get a high score. In many situations, these goals can conflict with each other. Do you warp to world 4 because it gets you closer to the end, or to world 2 because it gives you more opportunities to get points? I think the fact that most players almost automatically choose to pursue the first goal gives a pretty clear indication of which goal was better designed.
I really appreciate the survey. Good job
Squarespace. GOAL IT BEAUTIFUL!
Actually try Wix. Their headquarters are a long walk from where I live.
Oh wow, your love for the radio really turned me on to that aspect of GTA. It totally pumps up emergent gameplay.
+Ross Llewallyn The curation is so good. Radio Espantoso forever. -jj
Silent Hill 2 had a very solid goal and, more importantly imo, it flipped it on its head. I think that's what made the narrative itself so compelling. Everything looks fairly straightforward (if weird) but as the game goes on the assumptions you the player made start coming into question until you realize just what really brought James to Silent Hill. It's something I haven't seen all that often in games even ones that are very story oriented.
The down side to goals are illustrated painfully in the Assassin's Creed franchise with the 100% synchronization mission requirements. Once a game starts micromanaging how you're meant to achieve the goal players will become frustrated if not outright furious. I've seen people drop whichever installment they're playing all together because of a single mission's optional objective. As a rule gamers like goals but only as a hazy outline of what's supposed to happen. Ideally a game allows each player to develop their own solution for getting through obstacles or only takes away enough to encourage creative thinking.
Contrast the goal oriented missions of Portal against just about everything else.
Games with multiple goals are interesting because they build on this narrative and then throw a spanner into the works, forcing you to think more clearly about every decision you make. ( As opposed to a failure state where the game just ends when you choose the wrong decision )
My brother and I have vivid memories of a time when we played video games before we could read. So games like the Ocarina of Time (or dear god MAJORA'S MASK) was nigh impossible to maneuver. Yet through a strange tenacious process of trial and error, we still had a fun time playing. In a meta way, our goal stopped being the goals set to us by the game, but to simply progress one way or another. Mario 64 was much easier for us to comprehend because we were able to logic our way through what we were supposed to do without being able to read anything. I don't know, this video just made me think of that time, and how our goals change depending on our situation, where a clearly linear task and story driven game with a clear set of goals like Ocarina can suddenly become a totally open-ended and completely different experience depending on your circumstances.
The Sims do have goals, it is just that at the start you can choose your sims life goal (with smaller goals included) and while playing you can decide to stick to this 'path to the life goal' or not. Also the online community for the Sims is very active in creating many different, creative challenges for themselves and each other. So if you are a bit done with the in-game goals there is so much more goals/challenges to try.
I remember the original Mass Effect having a nice goal of "kill Saren". For such a complex game, it managed to unify everything u did in the world so that it all pointed towards achieving that goal (find Intel to kill Saren, stop minions that may lead you to Saren, collect materials to get stronger and kill Saren, etc). That, and Shepard mentioned it like every five minutes XD
speaking of open ended goals, the goal of goat simulater is to laugh. doesn't get more open ended than that!
I really enjoy the way Her Story sets up its goal(s), because at first, the player really has no idea what the overall goal is. In a sense, finding your goal is one of your primary goals in the early stages of the game. Pretty soon, as you become sucked into the narrative, a whole slue of other, smaller goals crop up as you chase narrative threads with the game's mechanic, but overall the same thread of figuring out who you are, and why you're there, prevails until almost the very end.
The best goal in any game I've played is in Octodad: hide the fact that you are secretly a cephalopod. What goal could possibly be more emotional, relatable, and challenging?
"that said there are fifteen different collectibles in this video." Instantly alert... 'are you lying? was that a joke? where are they?'
What about Minecraft? Where the absence of a true goal is supported with a achievement tree to guide the player through a series of items and place to discover. But the great part in my opinion is that you can actually not follow any lines and play just like a survival game.
+Federico Oggioni I've been following Minecraft since Beta (kind of a late comer) and it didn't have an achievement tree, or an End, or any bosses, or dungeons more complex than a box. I think they've tried to retain that original sandbox nature while adding other goal-oriented things to supplement, both in the survival aspect and the architectural one. It's a great study for anyone interested in game design, I think.
One of my favorite games with a giant goal with thousands of mini-goals is Xenoblade chronicles x. The overall goal is to ensure humanities future. It's open world with hundreds of quests of different types yet they all slowly lead to this overarching quest for survival.
One of my favorite optional quests in this regard is when you meet the Orpean alien race and recruit them to your cause. In most games it might lead to 1-2 different questlines, but it opens 50 or so new quest lines with varying effects on the world. By even doing these quests you can see all the good(or bad) you did for humanities overall chance for survival. Every little npc has something to say about your choices and if they think it helped or didn't with varying opinions. Heck I've recieved just as much hate for as much praise for how I choose to go forward in these missions.
The overall goal, no matter what, feels like I'm getting things done. From picking flowers to killing monsters to saving lives to socializing.
I found all the collectibles.
On a lighter note, balancing goals can be troublesome. I'm not the type of person to play minecraft because I need explicit goals, but the lack of direction and knowing I have a goal (whatever it may be) drives me in a game like Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
Maybe something to consider is 'potential' of a goal as well, or at least what we perceive and are allowed to sort of imagine for ourselves as a possible end result, then again, if it's more about the journey than the destination; is the goal itself important or is it how it's dressed up and presented to the player in order to entice them to progress?
+Brando Calrissian Dark souls is a good example of goals done well. Even though the games don't give you very clear instructions how to complete your overall goal. "Ring some bells and maybe something cool will happen," being effectively all the information you're given. On a much smaller scale the levels themselves are really well directed. No matter where you are in a level you can sort of instinctively tell which way you're supposed to go thanks to good use of lighting and framing. So even though you may sometimes feel directionless the game always gives you a very clear set of smaller goals to accomplish, go through this door, fight this guy, climb this ladder, so on and so forth.
Neko Atsume has the best goal, no contest.
(I want /every cat/ in my yard.)
+Jesse Walsh Obviously! -jj
I feel like goals are a thing that are more strict in most video games, as in real life goals aren't inherently forced, so games like minecraft feel more real in that regard, that you can follow a certain goal presented to you, but at the same time can completely ignore it and persue other things
Shadow of the Colossus has a great goal: save your friend. Is she your lover? A childhood friend? It's not important, Wander cares about her enough to perform an apparently forbidden ritual, which you signed up for after what the opening shows as a very long journey because you thought it was worth it. You're in it now, so get on your horse and go! Its a great premise and a very clear goal.
thanks for the tip!
Untill i saw this video, i had never thought about the goal of Mario being to save the princess. Playing mario on Gameboy and Nintendo 64 as a kid, i just figured the "goal" of the game was to get to the end of the level. My point being that sometimes, overcoming challenges can be all the incentive needed.
Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War is my favorite game. You save the world by blowing up a satellite from the sky. COOLIO
Although Dark Souls does not have an obvious over hanging goal in early game the player is still pushed by the goal of not dying. A seemingly simplistic "goal" that is in almost every game. But with Dark Souls the over arching goal could actually be simply not dying
+Kaleb Hogan Agreed, but it is also finding the mystery of the world
"Ring the bells, and something nice will happen"
+Kaleb Hogan Woah, you somehow responded to my question minutes before I even asked it! Weird.
+Hemang Chauhan finding the bells is a goal your right. But I would say it's only by the 2 over arching goals of the game that you are pushed to finding bosses. 1 don't die and 2 exploration of the world. The level design of dark souls pushes you toward dead ends where bosses appear but you only need the two goals in mind to beat the game.
I would like to make one more point, but more in regards to main game goals.
Having a solitary goal is great, but I have no problem with multiple goals as long as they aren't an inconvenience to the player or a convoluted mess.
Best example being in regards to what games like Undertale and some of the Megami Tensei games have done in regards to combat. You can either attempt some sort of peaceful resolve or attempt to kill whoever you're in combat with. Although your still going through the goal of surviving combat, the goal of resolution isn't always to kill. Although this honestly was better implemented with Undertale, it's still interesting to have your goal being either "kill everyone" or "find a peaceful resolution".
I have a very hard time playing open-world games because I always feel like I'm being distracted from the main goal of the game. It's especially evident in games that seem like there's impending disaster if I don't drive the narrative of the main quest forward but at the same time offer dozens if not hundreds of distracting side-quests and exploration incentives along the way. Many people complained about Final Fantasy XIII being a "hallway simulator," but at least I truly always felt in that game that I was moving forward toward something and that there was a sense of urgency present. Many open world games don't have that sense of urgency at all.
The most recent game I have played that has this problem is Xenoblade Chronicles X. The story says that all the humans will die out if you don't find the "Lifehold" before the big timer on the tower in the middle of the city counts down to zero. The gameplay, however, has affinity quests, regular quests, gathering quests, social quests, and multiplayer quests that all get in the way of this. You even spend some of your time in this game investing in companies and customizing mechs, both of which are interesting mechanics. However, they don't really serve the overall narrative goal of the game. The biggest problem is that the game sometimes actually forces you to complete trivial sidequests before you are even allowed to continue the main story.
That American Football sweater though
I think a 'plot' (I guess SMB technically has something you could call that) is only one kind of framing device. I doubt many people, while playing it, are framing their actions as "rescuing the princess". That is not most player's "reason to move forward". Personally I've never played a game where my motivation for continuing was the plot. My GOAL for playing a game is to have a certain kind of experience. Some games it's a feeling of mastery, or mystery, or awe or humor. I know stories in games are a huge motivator for some people, and they will endure gameplay they don't like just to get to the next dibble of story. But personally I know of about a thousand hours of amazing television and movies on Netflix and a giant stack of books for getting really good story. If anything, I'd put story WAY down on the list of GOALS for games.
The way this description comes off to me, is that you're validating the game by wrapping it in a linear edited storyline. I don't think games need that validation.
Nice Reading Rainbow ref. ;)
I think ether one has an awesome story related goal
I think games that encourage emergent goals as part of their design are the best use of goals in games. Doesn't mean the game itself has to be based on emergent gameplay though. Consider Dragon Age where you manage interactions with companions. As the player decides which characters they like, they implicitly derive their own goals for who to favor / build a relationship with. There is no instruction or "goal" in the game to build those relationships (outside of achievements), and players are naturally rewarded for exploring these gameplay systems, but they are still optional. Even if there were no explicit reward, players would still yearn to build those relationships for the intrinsic value to be had in learning about the narrative, characters, and lore. Those kinds of "goals" really add to a game experience and can be included into almost any kind of title depending on how it's done.
I find the co op games like Payday 2, Killing Floor 2 and some others have a very clear goals, either it be to get a job / heist done or deposing of Zeds. On a side note I wonder why I see so co op attempts fail due to lack of co-operation between players.
Wish the channel would be more like this video all the time, more thoughts on actual gaming and less about all the ideological crap.
+Drudenfusz What do you mean by "ideological crap"?
+Drudenfusz the ideological crap is as much a part of gaming as the pure mechanics. You don't have to like it, but you really should respect the fact that they way we think and the way society operates has a fundamental impact on how, why and what types of games are made. If anything, it's philosophical, as opposed to ideological. Why do we make games? Why are they the way they are? They are deep fundamental questions that necessarily touch on politics and society at large.
At risk of causing a flame way, you are simply wrong. Every person has an ideology, even claiming no ideology is an ideology of sorts. If you have ideas which guide your thinking and action, you have an ideology. It may not be well formed, but it's there. Whether you critically engage with games or not, the people who make them have behaviours and ideas which influence them. Especially in the best games, everything you see in them is made through a conscious decision process, every pixel is intentional created by humans with opinions and beliefs which shape the game you play. To say ideology has no role in games is ignorant and best and idiotic at worst. You don't have to like it, but you will never be able to make peace with criticism of gaming unless you accept that ideology plays a role in it, just like in everything else.
***** I don't see how my avatar is related to gaming journalism, so I kinda feel like you try to strawman me here. How about we stay on topic and you keep your tribalism out of here?
I love that you used a clip from Alan Wake. I've complained about the inclusion of collectibles in that game so many times. I always thought that it breaks the immersion (for me) because it makes my goals as the player conflict with my goals as the character. Alan Wake is wandering through the forest fighting (or fleeing) supernatural monsters and trying to rescue his wife, but I'm off searching for the walls of the level to make sure I'm not missing a pointless coffee thermos because I can't stop myself from thinking that they are somehow important (in terms of secret unlockables or achievements or even just a sense of completion).
I play other games the same way (for example, looking for the treasures in Uncharted), but the Alan Wake collectibles seemed so irrelevant and the game could've been very immersive. It always struck me as a really poor design decision.
Game with best goal? - Cookie Clicker: tap a button to get cookies so you can buy upgrades to get cookies faster...
Games don't need to have much of a goal to be fun really. The only goal in Cookie Clicker was to get a stupidly high number of cookies.
Think of Flappy Bird. There weren't even upgrades or an end to the game but it went viral. All Flappy Bird had was the goal of getting your score as high as possable.
The player usually comes up with goals they want to achieve themself: get a high score or speedrun the game or find the secrets and rare stuff. Often having a good end goal is just something that can improve a game, it is the the goals the player chooses and makes themself that matters more.
Best game ever Ultima 4 Quest of the Avatar the overarching goal is for enlightenment.
Becoming perfected in 8 virtues.
That Dragon, Cancer -- the goal is all about accepting the things you can't change?
I think that FIFA has the best goals, yuk yuk yuk.
+Zaziuma (Patrick Jensen) FIFA is an evil shitlord.
What about great games with very vague or undefined goals? I am of course referring to the impenetrable motivations of From Software's Dark Souls series as well as Bloodborne. In the former, there is an end goal presented to you: ring the bells of awakening in the first and seeking King Vendrick in the second, but the motivations and consequences of such an action are largely unknown/hidden from the player. In the later, your goal is even less defined, more of a job description than end goal: hunt beasts. Everything else the player has to seek out for themselves, and it usually requires a good deal of theorizing and guesswork.
I am not suggesting that these are bad games with bad goals; far from it, I think that From Software's games are absolutely wonderful. It's just that the examples you mentioned have very clear end goals that are easy to understand and therefore work towards. I have my own thoughts, but I want to hear why you think people are willing to slog and suffer through these games(and others like them) without a very definable "carrot" at the end of the stick.
Actually, there is a bit more of a goal in Bloodborne than I mentioned; you are seeking "Pale Blood", whatever that is :)
I was more wondering about stuff like Sim City or pretty much every Sims game, they seem to have not a goal but simply can continue forever.
+Christian Hansen The level design in those games are really good at given you micro goals to accomplish. No matter where you are in a level, you can always sort of tell where to go thanks to good framing in the design. So even though your overall goal is vague, you always have a pretty clear small scale goal ahead, go through that door, or kill that bad guy, pushing you constantly forward.
+Drudenfusz I feel like the glory of a sandbox like Minecraft is how you make your own goals? -jj
This reminds me of an article that every beginning/amateur game designer needs to read.
Ten Things Every Game Needs by Mark Rosewater
archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/174
#1 is a Goal or Goals
I think it's important to note that your end goal isn't actually that big of a deal.its as simple as moving right on a screen. it's more a world builder. almost an outline of the games script. what's important is if you keep a single mini goal that leads up to that goal. like being able to move right. obstacles stop you from doing this for a moment but your still pushing forward. including any mechanic should be to help the player achieve their goals or deal with obstacles. if the mechanic halts a player for no reason and doesn't reward them closers to the goal it should not be included. this may sound obvious but a lot of games make this mistake to fill the game with more content.
Will we eventually know the results of the survey?
Is there going to be a list of top game goals?
Well is it more important to focus on the goal OF the game or the goal IN the game? In Undertale I'm pretty sure the goal of the game is to make you feel empathy and feel for each character you meet. But in the game the goal is your choice. It could be to get home, it could be to kill everything or it could be to save everyone.
Just a nitpick: we actually don't know how to play Senet. The rules people use now are all based, more or less completely, on conjecture about what the rules *might* have been.
Would be interested to know some of your personal favorite goals in games.
I'd say Portal and Portal 2 have pretty good goals.
Speaking of goals, People constantly call Garry's Mod a game. I don't think it is because it has no structure or goals that come with it. Contrast The Sims where you set your goals based on how the game is structured. Minecraft on the other hand has both types of freeform mechanics so it can still be considered a game. There's a difference between a sandbox game and a freeform creative tool. If Garry's Mod is a game, so is MS Paint.
That thumbnail made me think this was an old episode about Rocket League
It seems to me that, often, the goal is the last thing on our minds while playing -- other than structurally ("that is the end"). These vague goals are often subsumed, I think, by the intermediate goals of play: beating this boss, traversing this chasm, finding these feathers. After all, does anyone really care about "saving" the princess -- about the narrative "goal"? Is she and her salvation really a "reason" for playing?
This is just one example: in DARK SOULS, does anyone really care about releasing Lordran from the curse of the abyss -- or whatever it was i was supposed to be doing? Even while playing FALLOUT 4, I note my daughter actively NOT wanting to follow the game through to its end-state or end-story.
Of course, for some games, this goal (other than "ending") looms a lot larger: the story of "what happened" in EVERYBODY'S GONE TO THE RAPTURE, for example, or maybe "Who Did It" in HEAVY RAIN. At least that's my experience, but how does this lead one to think that the idea of "relevant" narrative goals as having any very strong part to play in gaming. Often those types of goals just seem like placeholders.
P.S. I know you talked about other kinds of non-narrative goals, like having a winning score.
May the lack of greater goals be the reason why Sims and Minecraft are often defined as casual, despite not really hitting that criteria by any definition?
What about survival gems? They don't have goals (except to survive obviously), once you've achieved that, what next?
how bout the goal in Leisure Suit Larry?
lol!
FIFA has some pretty good goals
I was hoping for 1hr of Rocket League, but this is good too.
+Ian Terada That's known as playing Rocket League. :) -jj
+PBS Game/Show Touche!
Squarespace? Is this Linus' coverage of CES? I'm confused...
I feel like the mario games actually have fairly weak goals, in that they get lost through the gameplay. Anytime I've played the games I tend to forget that there is a princess at the end. It might just be me, but the "princess is in another castle" seems more like a cheap way to transition to another zone.
games without goals can be a lot of fun too. they don't make you do anything to work toward a particular result. you can do literally anything you want.
the best example of this is no man's sky. the game isn't actually out yet, but the creators have told us that the game has no end goal.
games that make you continually work towards a very clearly defined goal tend to annoy me. like Warhammer space marines. it makes you keep going to what ever the end goal was, and it feels very much on rails. God of war is kind of the same way, but the gameplay is enough fun to keep you entertained and the puzzles are good enough to keep you thinking. Warhammer was just a bit bland and dull and it felt like it was pushing me forward a bit to hard.
a good goal is only good if you don't mind doing all the work to achieve it.
Best game goal? Portal: cake
I only found 12 collectables. can someone help menfind the other 3? thanks in advance.
+JiffyJames85 I can't find any. What's an example of one. I don't know what I'm looking for.
+Travis Short The first one is at 4:56.
All of the collecribles are on the screen so i found them
I love games with goals. they make you feel like your actually working toward something.
however, games without goals can be a lot of fun too. they don't make you do anything to work toward a particular result. you can do literally anything you want.
the best example of this is no man's sky. the game isn't actually out yet, but the creators have told us that the game has no end goal, even though the point of the game is to be the first to reach the center of the galaxy. (which we still don't know what will be there.)
games that make you continually work towards a very clearly defined goal tend to annoy me. like Warhammer 40k space marines. it makes you keep going to what ever the end goal was, and it feels very much on rails. God of war is kind of the same way, but the gameplay is enough fun to keep you entertained and the puzzles are good enough to keep you thinking. Warhammer was just a bit bland and dull and it felt like it was pushing me forward a bit to hard.
a good goal is only good if you don't mind doing all the work to achieve it.
u gonna do something on the bigginers guide... I need more of the smart people on RUclips talking about what it means coz it seems pretty pregnant with thematic value
+Mudenda Bbela It means so much! And nothing. It's kind of a game about looking for meaning where there is none, right? -jj
PBS Game/Show yeah I get what you are saying. I do think however it says a lot about the connection between the game creator, the game and the gamers themselves. I personally thought it was interesting the way the game is kind of a modern response to the idea brought to light in the essay "death of the author" by some guy I feel a little too lazy to remember the name of right now. But in said essay the author questioned why a piece of art should be defined by the person who made it when actually the person could be considered more of a funnel who takes his experience of the word and kind of (for lack of a more respectable way to give accolade to the act itself) regurgitate it back in through there own understanding of it. This game kind of talks about the closeness of the author to his work like how coda (and Dave wreden) are very close to there work and how scrutiny will always have an effect of the author suggesting that this connection cannot be just passed up. Wether I'm right or wrong a dialogue about the connection between an artist and his work is one that I have never seen explored like the way this game has and that's what I love about it.
Can this be applied to real life?
what about open world games
I sincerely hope that future game designers don't watch this and go away thinking that people play Super Mario Brothers to rescue the princess. The weird thing about this video is you seem to be confusing fantasy with reality. Players design their own goals, such as "I want to beat the other guy" or "I want to get this high of a score" or "I want to glitch out of the arena and jump off the edge" and this is the heart of what makes games fun. Meanwhile many, but not all games have stories in which characters are motivated by a certain goal, but oftentimes the original goals aren't even met as dramatic storytelling dictates. Understanding the difference between storytelling and gameplay by game developers is what makes many modern games, especially MMOs and FPSs, popular with players long after they've given it a once through.
A game does not need a goal to be a (good) game. Open world games like minecraft have proven this. There is no goal in minecraft, no prinses you need to save, no campaign you need to complete, no boss you need to defeat. The only reason to do stuf in a game like minecraft is because you can and want to.
You can argue that minecraft has goals you set yourself, but then doesn't every game have those? In most cases that will be complete the campaign, but often there are dozens of extra things you can do after you completed the campaign. (side missions, challenges, achievements , ect.) Things that you don't need to do to "complete the game".
Goals are not the most important thing. Gameplay is. A great goal is nothing if the gameplay is terrible.
+SonOfAKing Goals are how you direct gameplay. Platforming or combat are only mechanics on their own. You can jump and shoot all you want, but if you don't have anywhere to go anybody to fight, then the gameplay is going to suck.
Ask ... and he/she will tell you, that ... is either under/over utilized and/or under/over represented. Specifically: A sound designer will say that sound design is under utilized as this increased the demand for sound designers. Off course I see potential in sound design as game play element - but don´t wonder why hearing disabled will complain about either not getting the audio clues in let´s say FPS games or getting blocked for cheating by visualizing them. Off course, something can be added to a product without removing other aspects, but at the end of the day: Games are products - people make them in part to pay their bills.
I am still unclear as how this whole concept will apply at sandbox and open world, even after a minor mention of it?
-how would you go on an define it when you want to make something like that
-how would you define it when you go on and try to enjoy it, since there are complaints by people quite literally pointing out "NO goals"
+Adil Zia There are implicit goals (and sometimes explicit as well) in open world and sandbox games. For example in Skyrim each quest added to your journal is a new goal, you choose which one to achieve first. In Minecraft, achievements are objectives and getting the last achievement is the "final goal". But there are "games" which have no clear objectives like simulations (google earth flight simulator for example). These simulations may not have been made like games but as a player you can create your own goals. In this case the player is the game designer.
Thanks
I understand that part I guess
-But I wonder how it would be as a developer who's making it? What sort of goals define that?
-and I think I even understand it on a quest by quest basis and YOUR choice in how and why during and after, but how about overall? How would one define the goals overall for a game like skyrim as a player?
+Adil Zia I'd like to hear some other answers to these questions, but I'll give you my thoughts. A completely open world, like Minecraft, has to take into account all the options given to the players. If you want the game to be fun, you have to make all the possible goals valid choices. The basic goals become using the tools and mechanics in the game. Most games add surviving to the goals, because people understand conflict. For such a game to be enjoyed to the fullest, the player has to make their own specific goals. If the tools aren't fun to use or if the extent to which they can be used isn't understood by the player, he/she probably won't commit to the game. It's why I can't enjoy Minecraft as much as some people. I don't have the vision or drive to create something that makes it rewarding for those people. That is the challenge that you pointed out. There are very few universally appreciated goals. Choosing not to strictly define long-term goals will be seen by players as either allowing them to create their own goals, or being lazy. When you leave it up to the players to figure out how to enjoy the game, some will find their ways and some will look for another game.
Adil Zia There are always big types of goals which are common to many games. Each game has an aim and often the goals (implicit and those created by the player) revolve around this aim. The aim of Skyrim is to present a huge fantastic world ready to explore. Every goal incites the player to discover the world, to travel along the map, in the dungeons... The main goal of Skyrim is not to finish the main quest or all quests, it is to discover a world built by the developers. This is why the fighting mechanics are not overcomplicated. With enough preperation you can beat everything and the epic feel of a combat is often present. On a other hand, Chivalry medieval warfare focuses on the fighting mechanics and present no world at all. The main goal of Chivalry is to master the mechanics and to learn new ones, battling in pvp. Other games like Minecraft are here to encourage your imagination and creativity to express themselves. This is why there is such a freedom in sandbox games. If a game is meant to be fast and fun, don't try to implement heavy mechanics and purify your gameplay without removing its depth. Loosing sight of the aim of your game will surely lead to a player loosing sight of the goals and eventually giving up.
+lunargamer So the goal is to find a goal? I'm getting a little dizzy! -jj
i like how you blame the goal of the bible's adventures noah's ark segment based on its content material...
Honestly, Mario is a pretty bad example for what your goal may be. The story is so forgettable it really isn't what makes me act. Nor did it particularly influence level design or gameplay. Almost any game can work with a generic "save your damsel" storyline.
+Kram1032 Fair enough. -jj
That is not to say it would be a bad game series or anything. It's great. But if anything, that goal and the story that comes with it is probably the weakest link.
Also, I wouldn't know: I never actually designed a game myself; but I am pretty sure design doesn't always start with a goal. I can at least partially project from other artistic ventures I did make.
For instance, I am fairly certain that Splatoon began not with the goal of painting a larger portion of the game floor than the opposing team but rather, quite simply, with the joy of covering stuff in color or, less specifically, making a mess of things.
All ideas, including the goal, were created around that premise to extract a maximum of fun from it.
(I could be totally wrong on that though)
You certainly need a goal but it doesn't have to be your starting point.
Mario probably is another example of that. The game is not about rescuing your damsel. It is about having fun while moving around and about mastering precision jumps. The damsel goal, frankly, is merely a weak excuse for all the game's mechanics.
Especially in the original game: without reading the instructions (which, to be fair, were a big part of all games at the time), you wouldn't even know that there is a princess in a castle until you find the first weird mushroom man (you would never learn that he is called (a) Toad) informing you that "the princess is in another castle".
+PBS Game/Show seems weird to start with example of a narrative goal in a game were narrative itself isn't too important. For most player the immediate goal in Mario is to reach the end of the level and then go on to the next level because doing so was challenging and exciting. It makes total sense, since a lot of the game's audience are kids, barely old enough to hold a controller. They don't care about princesses, they just want to have fun.
Something like DayZ would be a better example, since the only goal that the game provides is to survive. You spawn at the coast, first thing you see is the "hungry" status, so you know that you need to find food first, then clothing, and then some kind of weapon to protect yourself just to keep on surviving, which is a clear and relatable goal. The game needs only one line of text to motivate you to start exploring Chernarus. No worlds to save, no evil dragons in cinematic cut-scenes, just a single lowered stat.
first
I think Big Riggs is an extremely bad example because it's incompetent at every level. Having no goal is the least of it's problems.
minecraft doesn't have a goal