Camel Trophy vs Puma vs All-New Defender 110: Camel Trophy winner Bob Ives pits three head-to-head
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Camel Trophy winner, Bob Ives pits three decades of Defender head-to-head, each showing their unique articulation and traction.
Please bear in mind that the Defender trio clip was lifted from a rough cut of my lengthy upcoming All-New Defender feature. The sequence doesn't represent the final quality or the total narrative. For good measure I've also included a montage of a mere smidgen of what's to come from landroverphotoalbum.
Full disclosure; all three vehicles were driven and belong to Camel Trophy Winner, Bob Ives. Each vehicle had several attempts. Shown are the vehicles during their worst attempts. It had just rained after a dry spell. The 1989 Camel 110 was on BFG Mud Terrains, the 2015 Puma Defender 110 sported Goodyear Wrangler M/T's and the 2020 New Defender was wearing Wrangler A/T tyres
There's much, much more to follow. Thanks for watching.
Vehicles provided by:
Adam Bennett
Rybrook Land Rover
Land Rover PR UK
James Brackenbury
Williams Classics
Bob Ives
Bugout Vehicles UK
#InkyEnston #LandRover #AllNewDefender #2020Defender #LandRoverDefender #CamelTrophy #SNX891 #OxfordFirstOverland #PAC519 #CambridgeAfricaExpedition
LR have done the same thing they've always done with the new defender. When the range rover first came out it was a basic vehicle, something that could do most of the series' job but also drive you to market. No carpets and a radio with a single speaker. Then it slowly moved upmarket to the point they needed a vehicle to fill the gap the original RR filled, so they came out with the discovery. Then the discovery went upmarket too so they made the defender a little more upmarket with the puma. Now it's moved up to the point it's filled the spot that the disco used to occupy. It's just a shame they couldn't make a vehicle to fill the void left by the original defender. You'll never see a new defender being used by utility companies, tree surgeons, builders etc. and they've all moved on to utility vehicles from other manufacturers like like pickups. To me that's all part of the defender experience. It's the confidence brought by knowing what vehicles like yours are doing round the world, that it'll go anywhere and be fixed with a handful of tools, it's only limitation being the person sat behind the wheel.
I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that the New Defender is a capable off-roader that can go anywhere, but you'll never see one with a cherry picker on the back, you'll never see one with a Power Take Off for external equipment, you'll never see one with the wheels removed and replaced with something mad like caterpillar tracks or train wheels because it has lost the ability to be a platform. The Defender was a comercial vehicle, the New Defender is an SUV. It would be like Ford saying "here's the new Transit, we've based it on the Galaxy."
No question that camel is awesome, the new defender is a beast, but the reality is its to expensive and to complicated for the average person to be able to buy and maintain. Its all well and good having all the features which the new model land rovers and other car makers have, but when a problem arises with them its usually costly and a complicated repair. Why do cars need all the tech and gadgets, when we have gotten so far already without it.
I ask that same question when I use my abacus while my workmates flip on their computers
the old ones are too expenisive and puma's are entirely computer controlled - if people really cared about getting an affordable reliable car they would drive Japanese
That's a good question. The reality is, LR created the current market. The luxuries that were placed in RR were soon in every other 4x4. By 2004 the HSE D3, for instance, was air sprung, FBH, independ suspension, 4x heated seats as too were the mirrors, windscreen. It had AC, CC, Xeon light, lecky adjustable seats and mirrors (that fold electrically). It has a fridge, dual climate control, central locking, automatic/sequential transmission, TC, ABS, HDC, terrain response, centre and rear locking diffs, triple sunroofs, logic 7 Harman Kardon audio system, voice recognition, satnav, 7 full sized leather seats that fold into a flatbed position, 4* crash rating...
With the above said, how and why would LR not continue with such advances, considering my 2006 HSE D3 has covered 180k miles with all electrics working as they should and like many others, it's still on its original suspension airbags (no other vehicle is on original coils after 180k). Tech only gets better. If technology for 2004 is still rocking then it stands to reason that later tech would work as well, if not much better (and be cheaper to manufacture). Granted, there'll always be initial bugs in the system, especially with newer/less tried tech. However, JLR are meeting demand. Technology and luxury is as expected in a Land Rover today as 4x4 is. They're a business. Demand rules supreme. Besides, it's not as though we're being forced to buy new. I used a 2006 vehicle. I'm very happy with it. And, I've owned many others to aid comparison. I find the D3 to be a happy sweet-spot. Used buy-in price vs ability vs security vs efficiency vs reliability vs comfort etc = win-win.
Edit: safety and efficiency are a major deal today. Such qualities demands colossal tech and R&D. All LR's are 5* rated in crash tests and they still kick-ass off-road, as well as on it.
I agree. I still wish for a solid rear axle on air suspension for some articulation on the L663
@Kyle B BWHAHAH!!!! Oh wait, you were serious??? Have you priced a Land Cruiser???
Eagerly awaiting the full film. 🙏🏻
Ppp
P9o
Wow, seems like ages since the defender film, seriously can not wait for more! Hope to see it soon!!! Thanks so much for making incredible films.
Feels like we've been waiting forever for the new films!! Really looking forward to them. Defending Land Rover was excellent.
Super excited. My step father had one of the first (if not the first) camel 110's in the states. He had to go through 2 years of red tape. Some of my best memories childhood memories were in that truck. Baja. Blackrock, Nevada. And just putting around the bay area in California.
I miss that truck and 2002 tii.
So the older defenders didn’t have front and rear lockers? Only a locking center diff?
The camel really impressed me knowing it has low range box and centre diff lock, old but gold!
Can't wait for the full film if it's anything like your past feature videos. God they were so good to watch 👌🏼
That camel 110 is seriously impressive considering all it had was a centre diff lock and low range box. Looks to be much more to come Nick, some great and intriguing footage there. By the way, we are long, long overdue a meet up. Drop me a line, yeah?
Awesome. We are gonna need something good to watch again and again for national lock down part two that’s coming 😬 Loved your last epic film great work.
Was already looking forward to your new film. Now I can't wait! 🤣
Cant wait to see this! 👍 loved your last one
Camel Trophy '89 Defender with "momentum control" is the clear winner 👍
No it’s not
Can’t wait to see the full film.
Loving it all. Looking forward to more.
Great stuff, looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
… it would be good to see the new Defender competing in actual camal trophy like e.g in Borneo, etc
Brilliant
Hello. Is it possible to use about 5 seconds of footage of the camel Defender for my RC car video about the same car please? I will obviously link your channel in the description and write your channel on the footage. Thank you so much in advance. 🙂
Ohh man this looks unreal
A rear locker on the trophy and it will outperform the new defender anywhere except for on the road.
The above L663 didn't have a rear locker fitted. If it did the Camel wouldn't stand chance, no matter how many lockers you fit. The point of the video is that all vehicles are stock. The other two traditional Defenders were never available with a rear locker. The L663 in the video has no rear locker - it was using Terrain Response 2, effectively a set of 'infinite lockers' all round. Some would argue an artificial infinite locker is more able over multiple surfaces than lockers alone. Either way, from the showroom, the L663 is available with incredible abilities from from poverty spec to the full beans.
Erm no. Ive nothing against the new defender but it's seriously limited by it's suspension when it comes to anything more than mild off-road (which that was). Compared to something like a Wrangler Rubicon which is fully lockered on beam axles, the new defenders offroad limitations are quickly realised as it teeters between 2 and 3 wheels on anything more than a mild undulation whereas the jeep remains firmly planted on all four wheels making it far safer, more pleasant to drive and more capable in this kind of situation. It is also absolutely not capable of withstanding the type of conditions the camel trophy vehicles were subjected to on a daily basis, mostly due to the amount of electronics on the car which are taxed keeping the vehicle reliable on tarmac let alone being dragged through a rain forest. It's still a very capable vehicle for what it does, providing much more in the way of refinement and safety than the old one ever could and the traction control system is very very good, but it can't mask the the fact the suspension design is biased toward road performance rather than off-road performance. If asked to tow 3.5 tonne 400 miles you'd take the new defender all day long, to cross the Darien gap? No chance, it's going to be the camel.
There’s something very valid I hope you will explore. That is dependability. With all the electronics, the large wheels...how would it manage on an expedition? Also, the lack of third party mods like ARB etc. How hard it is to put a winch on and how difficult it would be to repair if you’re stuck in the middle of nowhere..
Hope you are genuine and actually look into all that and if you do have access to JLR a representatives, question them about that.
You can actually wrench on the old one when it breaks boys and girls...
defenders most overlooked quality isnt that it makes it through, but it can always reverse itself out for another go.
Yeah, the defender can take its self down steep hills too, leave it in 1st low, and diff lock on ( if needed) , and it will take itself down nicely, all you need to do really is steer.
Huge fan of the new defender! Any thoughts on the trouble TFL are having with theirs?
Big difference here is the old defender can take constant abuse day after day on sub standard fuel this new shit would fail on the first day
Out of the old defender and new defender, which one is the easiest to fix, i am going for the old defender, Also can you see many new defender owners putting that through the paces, of what the camel went through? I don't think so, same goes for the new disco owners too. Compared to the 1st generation disco that did proved its worth with the camel.
In my other film, Bob Ives, winner of the Camel Trophy claims the current Range Rover would manage the Darien gap today just as the RRC managed 50 years ago. As for the Camel theory, how many owners of traditional Defenders attempted anything like the Camel outside of competition, in a stock unit vs how many used their vehicles 98.9% of the time of roads, sand, grass and gravel? Camel vs L663. It is a pointless argument, this was purely for fun. Camel vehicles were Works machines and fit for purpose. They're not civilian builds. And the truth is, they break just like any other LR. As for how easy the L663 is to fix, to those in the know, a majority of issues are very easy to fix - as simple as plugging in a device. But buying new isn't about how easy something is to fix for the overwhelming majority - it's about how able, efficient, safe, quick, secure, reliable and practical the vehicle is. If the L663 was no good Bob Ives wouldn't have bought one, which should say everything. Bob is a farmer, off-road advisor and Camel winner. My film will have Bob's account, along with many others. Effectively, my upcoming L663 feature is about what others think, not what I believe. Spoiler alert, the L663 isn't thought to be a poor Defender by those very familiar with Defenders of old.
The new Defender could never do a real Camel Trophy. It would break down due to all the electronics on board.
I’d still drive the camel because
ITS AWESOME!
Your Camel Trophy Jacket is cool, where can I buy? 🙏
At the end of the day you need more wheels on the ground and in difficult obstacles that's what's going to give the old defender the edge. The travel on the new defender is poor. You cannot overcome the lack of tyre surface area on the ground with traction control. This is a highly contrived test scenario.
Now measure character
Get over it the new one is great - it has the most interest from people that any vehicle I have ever driven...to the point of annoyance!
Is there any issues with the puma traction control? Seems to not kicking in fully, could be me, but I'm sure I've seen it working a lot better
No. The feature film will go into detail.
Загнали бы их по лобовое в болото, и потом посмотреть кто сможет продолжить движение.
Old defender will win it. New one will break down.
Definitely new Defender is Disco5 or something else. They should keep the original style. As a Defender Puma owner yeah it's a Land Rover but not a Defender
I would take the 110 camel evert time over the new so called defender ( Discovery )
The new defender is a metro sexual machine. Totally a yuppie ass vehicle... nothing beats original.....
The old defender has its charm but is a awful place to be when behind the wheel, the world has progressed over the last 70 years it didn’t
@@miketucker7466 Hahah.. You are absolutely wrong. You’re right though, that the world progressed. The new interior options- options for suspension .. make these such a joy to drive!!
@@heritage4x490 nothing can make the the old one safe or comfortable- I owned one!
@@miketucker7466 East Coast Defenders look them up. Make some beautiful Defenders that drive awesome and are safe. No I don’t work for them...The 2 I currently own ...I rebuilt from the ground up. Rides and drives like a cloud.
@@heritage4x490 there's nothing you can do to a defender to make it safer or significantly more comfortable. There's nothing you can do to improve passenger or pedestrian safety or introduce crumple zones. And for comfort, the cab design is inherently cramped. you can fit air con and a plush interior, but that's never really what made them uncomfortable. But that's not the point, they're great machines, an excellent platform to build on, and fun to drive. The new defender is good too,it just doesn't have that same raw functionality.
"Camel Trophy winner" as subtly stated in title 🙄
Put lockers on defender will piss over it like the new one has
As the description says, the all new Defender shown has no lockers other than a centre locker, as do the others. However, the new Defender only has AT's fitted, whereas the Camel and Puma are equipped with MT tyres - the Camel also had its anti-roll bars removed.
Some defeners have traction control
@@michaeldavis5075 yes, the Puma has TC but wasn't able to perform as well as the L663 even though it had MT's fitted.
A zi col 110 sei riuscito a bloccarti su quel piccolo dosso...fa una cosa, scendi e va a piedi
Edna for the win.
Ohhh the good old Land Rover Camel Trophy !!! i love the car! Boa there the NEW looks ugly and fully inflated. Sorry!
Greetings from Germany
Puma all the way
Those were the last decent defenders, Just a shame those are expensive to buy. I own the TD5 which is another great model. My dad owns the 200 TDi which is so easy to work on, the 300 Tdi was the same too. But sadly that got stolen and destroyed, so i switched to the TD5.
@@procta2343 I like them all , but when they face-lifted them it became a dream car for me. Since they came out i have been desperate for one. Just look so good with the bonnet.
This proof nothning. Only this that older ones didnt get lockers from factory. Now put New Defender inside of Borneo, Madagaskar Jungle or force it to drive around Bajkal in wet season... this will be true test.
As the description says, the all new Defender shown has no lockers other than a centre locker, as do the others. However, the new Defender only has AT's fitted, whereas the Camel and Puma are equipoised with MT tyres - the Camel also had its anti-roll bars removed.
@@landroverphotoalbum but it got traction control based on ABS and brakes... brakes where tent do burn due hard offroad usage. Lots of LR3 and LR4 after even few days of muddy offroading need to have changeg brake pads...
@@jakubstrumillo the 2015 Puma Defender also has traction control. It has MT's fitted, too - tyres make a big difference. I've used both my D3's off-road for 5 years, with over 100k covered between them.. No pad/disc issues, at all, whatsoever. I have had one piston seize on a rear caliper when on the road though.
@@jakubstrumillo glad seeing people here who actually understand something about cars and off-road!
@@adtfor i build few 4x4s on my life.
Its the old teaching the young how it should be done .
What stupid !!! Long wheel base with the shit plastic short wheel base ..:: excuse to try to sell a product and is failure… who is going to buy that crap cost a fortune and full of electronics well known Land Rover reliability crap … this is the must stupid compare
This does not prove anything’ as the whole point of Greenlaning is that you the driver actually drive the car through the terrain’ not the car does everything for you.
The new generation of human beings are so lazy.
How about you be more reductive and just walk?