Technique Training for Beginners: Back Step VS Flag
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2018
- Back Stepping VS Flagging: What's More Efficient? As almost always when it comes to Rock Climbing Technique, it depends on the Situation. In this episode we will analyse a technique specific short route, which was set and climbed in 4 different ways by Thorsten in the Kletterhalle Fürstenfeld.
Technique Training for Beginners: Back Step VS Flag by Mani the Monkey
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Cross step into back step is the best feeling ever, it just feels right 😂
I find that back stepping gives me more reach than the other techniques, especially when climbing reachy boulder problems as a shorter climber. You can really drive hard with your leg and try to stand on your tiptoes to reach very far.
I always thought I was flagging, when in fact I’ve been back stepping. The more ya know. Thanks Mani.
Same here!
Some people call that (front) flagging, and what he called flagging in the vid, back flagging.
@@KCIsMe same
Terminology is often non-uniform. I know these techniqes as follows:
Mani's back-stepping --> normal flag
Mani's Flagging --> reverse outside flag
From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms:
- Normal flag: When the flagging foot stays on the same side (e.g. flagging with the right foot out to the right side of the body).
- Reverse inside flag: When the flagging foot is crossed in front of the foot that is on a foothold.
- Reverse outside flag: When the flagging foot is crossed behind the foot that is on a foothold.
At least Mani thoroughly explains what he means and is consistent in all his videos.
That's a back flag specifically. When "backstepping" his free foot was flagging. Both "backstepping" and back flagging work to reduce barn doors. However, back-flags don't rotate your hips the same way, so you can't extend off your leg for reach as easily while back-flagging vs. when back-stepping. Particularly on overhang, back-flagging forces you to lock off to move up and becomes fairly inefficient
So all backstepping is flagging, but not all flagging is backstepping?
Literally not a single back step seen. Several flags (half not required). But not a single back step. This is why you don’t blindly repeat what you’ve seen on a video. Get out and climb. See for yourself. (The closest thing to a back step seen was sloppy footswaps).
This video made me realize i definitely use the back step where ever i can, I will try to use this flagging technique in my next sessions. Thank you for the tips!
I love your videos, thanks so much! I've hit a plateau for a while now and your videos have helped me start progressing again. So well explained, the side-by-side shots are PERFECT with the triangle highlighted. Really, huge KUDOS for the service you're doing to the community.
Great video, Mani! I don’t outside flag nearly enough, I find myself outside edging and foot swapping almost all of the time, and when I do the occasional flag I realise how much time I save, especially on small footholds.
echt cool, dass du mal wieder so ein gutes Technikvideo gemacht hast! Daumen hoch! Gerne noch mehr davon :)
At 45seconds in you start talking about a previous video about technique and how it would be beneficial to check that out first, it would be nice if next time that scenario comes up you put a link to that previous video in the description. Small tip from a random youtuber :) Other than that I enjoy the content and I was looking for help on flagging and yours was the first one to show up :) Good luck in the future!
That was indeed an excellent video, awesome job! Havent seen anything like tjis in youtube where they compare in paralel different styles of footwork simultaneously. Bravo!!
Nice comparison! Each also tax the body differently so switching between the less efficient method might actually feel better if it starts to engage different muscles. So many things to perfect. I learned everything I know from watching Neil Gresham videos just like this, they have been invaluable for me. Thanks for carrying the torch Mani!
Great and useful video as always! Looking forward to more.
Super informative and easy to follow. This vid is awesome!!!
Very good analysis man, thank you!
Great video, thanks Mani!
Very useful and informative. Thank you so much!
very, very good! thanks for the effort of cutting this video...!
Wowwww the best climbing technique video iv ever seen!!!!!! Thank you soooo muchh
this was really helpful, thanks 👍🏼
Very nice instructional video! Top tier.
Fantastic video!! Thanks
I really like your technique analysis videos.
bitte mehr davon! super hilfreich dankeschön
Great instructional vid!
Great video, thanks!
Just discovered your videos and they are brilliant!!
good tips! thank you!
Very useful video thanks !!!
Thanks Mani!
Very useful, thanks!
Great job!
Absolutely great tutorial. liked and subscribed just for this 1 vid :0
For me as a moderately strong but quite flexible climber the back stepping technique works way better and seems more natural (although it takes more time, you are right!). also with flagging it seems that he is limiting his reach: having the right foot on the hold and reaching with the left hand vs. left foot and hip on the wall when reaching with the left. flagging seems a little weird to me, I never used it naturally when climbing
Hey Mani! Love your vids… how about a comparison with inside flag… please
Now try to do the same excercise on really smal crimps to see how much weight is really on your fingers with each of these techniques.
@HODL it's really best to try it yourself to feel it. And it may be individual, dependent for example on hips mobility. But on vertical wall, not to mention slabs, especially if you cannot side pull on the hold with a lot of force, it may be better to use frontal technique because you'll keep more weight on your legs. There is no question for the overhangs of course because you have a lot of force on your hands either way due to gravity so everything that keeps hips closer to the wall (so side techniques) works better.
But Mani is way more experienced and skilled climber than myself and it feels strange to correct him so I think it's better to try it on your own. This is how it feels for me and I think it's worth being mentioned in this kind of video.
@@dzi333 these techniques are definitely specific to a certain type of route: very vertical with decent holds.
@@AdalBermann85 no
@@kuresar654 yes. I'd love to see someone trying to do this up the slab pitches of Free Blast on El Cap 😂
@@AdalBermann85 Just because you don't flag on a slab doesn't mean your previous statement is any less wrong. I'd like to see you hold certain crimps without either backsteps or flags. They shift your center of gravity and direct the forces in your legs in directions that makes it easier to grab shitty holds.
If anything, they matter the most on overhangs and shitty holds.
You should really link the older video somewhere if you are constantly talking about watching it before this one
Thank you so much for all your time and effort spend to put together your videos Mani.
I took up climbing 6 weeks ago and am really interested in all aspects. Especially energy saving and technique have become focal points for me recently so i'm trying to draw inspiration from this video.
After watching the first half of the video i tried to apply this to an overhanging boulder problem. Needless to say i still struggle with overhang but trying to backstep didn't work at all. I'm sure i did it all wrong aswell.
After watching the rest of the video i seems like there is a lot of foot swapping involved in back stepping? Like, atleast half the time.
There seems to be a time and place for these moves. You were stressing this point in your other back stepping video which i also watched. As a beginner i find it hard to discern though when this time and place is :D:D
Any advice from the community?
Regarding the footswapping in backsteps, watch fourth video in the video. Notice he steps through and reaches for the exact foothold he wants to make the next move from. Thereby eliminating unnecesary footswaps.
On when to use what: It is very hard to come up with a rule, seing as all routes and problems are unique, though they can be similar, they require different techniques, and two climbers will often have different sequences. Therefore, you have to figure it out yourself. My best advice is to familiarize yourself with all the different techniques, start with the ones from the vid. Go climb something, and just keep doing it in as many variations you can. This will improve your routereading skills dramastically :)
@@madsravn6442 thanks for the reply bro!
i'm taking it to heart
I think you understate the benefit backstepping has of bringing your hips into the wall. This does three things: 1) it brings one of your shoulders in to wall and raises it up giving you more reach. 2) bringing your hips right into the wall places your center of gravity right over your feet which takes weight off your hands. 3) It places you body in the proper position to push off with your leg. Your friend is quite strong, and I suspect he's using a lot of core and shoulder muscles to move up the wall, but for me at least, moving off a flag uses a lot of upper body still. To test this, try holding a position similar to the ones at 7:04, but keep your right hand extended without grabbing the hold and compare how tiring each is for different muscle groups or how long you could hold each position. This is the main benefit of drop knees over flagging. Flagging allows you to control your center of gravity while backstepping allows you to bring your hips into the wall. Another way to compare would be to shoot the video parallel to the wall to compare the distance of the hips to the wall for each technique. Other than that, fantastic video!
If you are going to recommend another video you should put a link in the description or on the video.
Naruto ost :) you absolute legend
Wie würde man auf deutsch sagen: Eindrehen und (Hinter)scheren?
Hello, Many! I hope that you can ever come to "El Chalten" o "Piedra Parada" in Argentina! Saludos!
I've been to both, great places!
Hey Mani. This really helps. I really appreciate it, but what I really have a hard time with is the decision making in using the back step or the flag. I'm really new so frontal climbing just makes sense. How do you decide where and how to flag or back step?
Practice a lot! Practice the same route using only back-steps, then only flags, then only frontal. Do this for a few weeks or months, then you'll start to intuitively understand when to use which one.
@@zemdu3506 gotcha. Thanks my dude
is this specificly better in overhang? because you are closser at the wall this way
In my humble opinion, backstrpping looks really nice but sometimes, when footholds are really small, it would not be efficient to switch your foot cuz it would pump the hell out of you. so in that cases flagging would be better?
I also wonder if the sequence could have been performed so that a match/flag with the feet would not have been necessary. Just start the route with the opposite foot and climb/flag normally while back stepping.
But that’s the beauty of climbing. There are many different ways to tackle the same route
@@geebee3d after all this time climbing, what i would say is: flag when climbing on bad holds on a slab. Back step when juggy holds overhang
So are these moves to statically hold for better position on wall or do you have to dynamically use them to reach the next hold? It seems like you are dynamically timing the flag or back step with you move to next hand hold? Is that how it is always done?
Your top pick for a everyday rope is no longer available, can you make a video about how to pick a rope and the differences between high-end and everyday ropes. Cheers, love the vids, stay strong!
I'll review my links as soon as possible, thanks for the hint!
6:43 has most of the weight on the right arm, and the body is way out of the wall. In this position you can actually put more stress on one arm, and from a worse angle, than doing a dead hang on it! Just saying. The video is great, and helps understanding those moves. After all we should have all the moves in the bag :)
Isn’t back stepping with cross step simply normal flagging and the flagging demonstrated back flagging?
Question: Backstep = back flag = outside flag, correct? And within context of this video, "flagging" = inside flag, correct? Just a matter of semantics?
what is that credits song lol why does it sound familiar
I am no climbing expert, so I could be wrong on this, but I do think back stepping with so much foot swapping is really the worst way of doing your route. And by putting it into a rookie video it could be a bit misleading.
You need to spend so much energy on switching feet.. energy that is completely wasted. Only by comparing climbing times u can see, that this techinque is really not efficient... the longer you climb, the more energy you naturally spend.
Secondly, since this video adresses beginners: rookies will most certainly even take longer to swap feet, thus rendering this technique even more inefficient.
Additionally beginners tend to be more insecure with swapping feet which leads to increased usage of their arms which again is definitely not what should be done.
Last but not least, I think the holds should be more apart, so that it becomes more obvious why frontal climbing is not ideal.
Thank you anyway for the effort you put into your videos
Michael B the technique does not require more energy because you are not pulling yourself up with your arms up. Climbing with your feet is how you save energy.
As a climber with weak upper body (and very limited endurance) I have to disagree. For me, it's not the duration of the climb but rather the amount of energy expended that matters. If you make slow precise movements you spend *less* energy than if you move quickly but use more dynamic, more powerful movements.
Love the Naruto vibes at the end.
Is this labelled up wrong
Hey mani love ur videos, could u do a more specific vídeo about overhanging for begginers?
Start with that one: ruclips.net/video/FPrdTd7tMdc/видео.html&frags=pl%2Cwn
Thanks, ur videos has help me very much
You should also mention the inside flag. It would have made SOME of the moves as efficient as the drop knees, but still faster and requiring less flexibility than stepping trough.
Maybe you should also stress that ALL of the mentioned techniques should be practiced in various settings untill mastered, since there is no best technique. It really depends on loads of factors. As a beginner i can say that i got used to the back step to much and would use in all situations, to detrement of my climbing offcourse. L
Anyways great video. I hope we see more of these instead of your pseudoscience based ramblings on nutrition :D
Yep the inside flag didn't get a mention in this one, I explained it in detail in my specific technique episode about flagging.
Well in today's day and age it's almost impossible to say anything about diet that is NOT backed up by "proper science", so I don't really feel guilty bout that. Just sayin :P
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I think you got back stepping and flagging confused with each other... but otherwise good video
Dude I thought the same why are more people not saying that.
He slightly did. The "back step" isn't what he's doing with the free leg, because that's a flag. The back step is using the outside edge of the weighted foot to rest on the foothold. This allows the other leg to "flag" out and counter the torso's center of gravity.
What he calls flagging in this video is also known as a "back flag" or rear flag.
The concept was good but it's gonna make newbies all confused.
Nice and helpful video! The rookie climber is obviously not a rookie though, as you can see by his straight arms. Mani says that he climbs with arms locked off (meaning locked in a bent position) which would be true for a beginner but this is not what the guy in the video does.
It's kind of strange to show a video of bad footwork and positioning and commenting on the arms which are in fact being used in a proper way. Was I the only one who noticed this?
Best beta video on RUclips.
pueden traducirlo al español?
I thought that is the flagging what you call back stepping.
I thought the same
why this wall is so short
So all backstepping is flagging, but not all flagging is backstepping?
Unexpected Naruto
He is still super locked off in the second example
Less diet more technique
Backstepping and flagging are more energy efficient, but they both require more finger strength because one foot is taken off a foothold and arms are used less like you said, so more body weight is put onto the fingers. This is problematic for beginner climbers who haven't developed substantial finger strength yet, so I would recommend this more for like V2 climbers not total beginners
What would you reccomend beginners then? Just right left right left frogclimbing for a couple of years, until they are strong enough to start learning basic technique?
@@madsravn6442 most beginner climbers simply don't have the strength to flag and backstep. Attempting these on some sketchy routes may result in an awkward fall. Front climb for a little bit (it doesn't take long to get to around V2, maybe a month) then once they develop the finger strength, start flagging and backstepping. It's not that hard to understand, Mads
Frontal aka missionary
Wieso kannst du diese Videos nicht auch auf deutsch machen? Biiiittteeeee!
I’ve only climbed once, so I’m a complete beginner. Seeing all these techniques frustrate me because I have no idea when they’re actually necessary. I’m going to look like a moron trying this out lol
Just climb, climb and then climb some more. When you finish a route, climb it again, but try to do it with more control, with less energy etc. Most of the techniques just click after the first time you successfully apply them. And in the end, what you lack in technique, you can always make up with strength ;)
have very long legs...... i will stay with earlier versions...
body falag
im a complete noob but back stepping looks like a complete waste of time and energy.