Update - Linnea Mills Drysuit Fatality - No Criminal Charges
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2021
- In a disappointing situation for the family of Linnea Rose Mills, the U.S. Attorney, District of Montana declined to criminally prosecute Deborah Snow, the instructor whose action was described in the last video. It has been alleged that the negligence and ignorance of instructor Deborah Snow were directly causal to the drysuit death of Linnea Mills.
The original incident video can be seen here: • Drysuit Dive Fatality ...
If anyone would like to inquire with the office of Leif Johnson to present any reasoning why one of the pasts or proposed charges might be appropriate, the public office contact is provided below. This channel does not endorse spam or online harassment in any way.
Family announcement Facebook:
/ 4623978230962823
Copy of US Attorney Release:
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Leif Johnson, Acting US Attorney, www.statesattorney.org/case/l...
leif.johnson@usdoj.gov
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Jim
Big Dog, DDT
DiscoveryDiversTokyo.com
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If anyone would like to contact the US Attorney's office, in a professional manner, to share their thoughts on this case:
Leif Johnson, Acting US Attorney, www.statesattorney.org/case/leif-m-johnson/
leif.johnson@usdoj.gov
The Original incident video can be seen here: ruclips.net/video/2epY6GRI2mU/видео.html
@Discovery Divers Tokyo:
I think approaching the Judge in this case might actually be wiser! I wish there was some way to make an *Amicus Motion* to the court for what's called a *Motion for Quo Warranto!*
That prosecutor needs a Disbarment hearing, methinks!
*Addendum:*
'Attorney for the case: *_waaaaaay_* too inexperienced! Here:
www.justice.gov/usao-mt/pr/us-attorney-hires-five-new-attorneys
@@valerierodger7700 :
You are both correct, and incorrect! I said: *_"...wish I could make an Amicus Brief to the court..."_*
Approaching the judge: that was in a metaphorical sense. Linnea's mother has to now sue the D.A.'s office for Failure to Act, or Dereliction of Duty!
From there, compulsion to press charges against Debbie Snow Involuntary Manslaughter, can be achieved.
i would be more than glad to share my thoughts I would crucify everyone associated with it.
@@jaysilverheals4445 :
I'd just be glad to get through to someone with enough authority who'd just waltz up and say: *_"Umm, yeah guys, listen: let me handle this one. Please,... go back to Crimes-Against-Property-Division, m'kay!?!..."_*
“Certified professionals” who didn’t know what had gone wrong?
Ignorance isn’t a defence.
PADI needs to pull her certification, so this can never happen again
Expect Drs. Dunning and Kruger to appear as respondent witnesses if and when the civil suit goes to court.
What's the instructors name? So I never ever get any instruction from them!
Yes, it's absurd for the people who are the subject matter experts to claim ignorance, have a student under their instruction die due to their lax supervision and negligence, and then the US Attorney's office just shrugs and says, "OK."
@@jayward67 ...Deborah Snow...
Ignorance of the law is never a defense but ignorance itself, especially in a negligence case, seems like a perfectly usable defense. The prosecutors look at how likely they are to win a case and they know better than most armchair lawyers on the internet if they can win this or not.
PADI need to come out and revoke her instructor certification instead of being silent and hiding under a rock.
The dive master did knowingly engage in conduct that created a substantial risk of death. She did everything wrong to the point that it looks like she even did it on purpose. Can you really be that incompetent that you’d violate every diving rule and not know what you’ve done? She’s using the Hillary Clinton,”I do not recall” defense. If Snow wasn’t trying to kill her, what exactly was she trying to do by sending her down with a faulty dry suit, weighing her down with 50 lbs of un removable weights, and not bothering to check on her? What else was she hoping to accomplish besides death?
Agreed, Tosca. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope to see you around the channel.
No doubt. Incompetent prosecutor. I hope the family gets justice for their loved one. You can hardly expect the JUSTICE department to deliver said justice. They have proven themselves to be incompetent, or unwilling to do their job. This story makes my blood boil...
She was trying to get paid. It was pure greed
That was the other part that I found intriguing. I can see one mistake. But at some point a "series" of mistakes have to add up to gross disregard for safety and some sort of culpable endangerment.
so many emotions learning of this incident. Sad for Linnea and family and Bob, enraged at the instructor, absolutely baffled they could ever have let her in the water 1) almost freezing 2) effectively bottomless /steep sided 3) basically a night dive w no lights 4) no cellphone coverage 5) no training in drysuit 6) no gear check or just went anyway knowing it wouldnt work 7) grossly overweighted 8) no buddy system to name a few... F*** this makes me so mad. I'm glad Bob's 14yo daughter bailed on the dive also god knows what might have happened to her in those conditions
This is the email that I sent to the District Attorney's office:
To Whomever it May Concern,
As a citizen of these United States of America, it deeply saddens and horrifies me that your office has chosen to decline criminal prosecution of Deborah Snow for Criminal Endangerment. As a citizen, it is my duty to respond when called for jury duty. It is my job as a citizen to decide whether you have provided reasonable doubt.
This case in particular is horrifying, and while I do have emotions and sadness for the family, I am also angry and scared for other Americans who might put their trust in Deborah Snow. I understand that the District Attorney's office is put in a difficult position, however the District Attorney's office admits that there is negligence and "perhaps grossly so" (a direct quote from the letter declining to prosecute). This case needs to be re-examined at the very least. I do believe that a jury of Deborah Snow's peers would find her criminally culpable beyond a reasonable doubt. You have not given a jury that opportunity which is incomprehensible.
I am not a diver. I am not a diving expert. This is not a murder case - this is a case where gross negligence has risen to a criminal level. It is frankly disturbing to see your office admit to there being negligence from Deborah Snow and refusing to bring any criminal charges. This not only is a slap in the face to the Mills family, but actively puts other American lives in danger by allowing Deborah Snow to potentially continue instructing.
Your office can protect other teenagers like Linnea Mills.
Respectfully,
my name.
I couldn’t agree with this more
Perfect , negligent homicide at bare minimum
That's nonsense. The instructor is literally certified "to know".
Have a look at the update (6/21) if interested: ruclips.net/video/F4yvz6akmQg/видео.html
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo That is this video we're watching now.
@@KutWrite Doh, thanks....
What a crock! What about the combined 50 pounds of non dumpable weights. Did this clown of an attorney even reach out to an expert in regards to this “training”. I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I have some serious feeling that the dive shop, and it’s owners have made the business and themselves judgement proof. I hope that this family gets some kind of judgement against the ones responsible for the daughters death.
The clown of an attorney did reach out to the experts most likely the same one's who are involved in this case.
This is Montana... if you are from the state, you are protected (I sometimes wonder if they are all related like some other states), if you aren't, good luck with even a speeding ticket! This is the epitome of "cement shoes" that the Mafia used. Just consider the story, Bob couldn't even budge her with his extra buoyancy.
Why didn’t the instructor check on Linnea throughout the dive knowing she had no hose and had an excessive amount of added weight? KNOWING the weight inside of the suits could not be dropped. Why didn’t the instructor realize once in the water her buoyancy was wrong/off and terminate Linnea’s dive and send her out of the water? From start to end Snow failed and lead Linnea to her death. I’m furious.
Hi Jim . I have been diving most of my adult life and have taught both BSAC and as a PADI instructor . This case is an absolute disaster . You have pointed out all the mistakes made in this horrific case . This was no accident , as an instructor it is their responsibility to make SURE that the student is well prepared both dive wise and equipment for the module ahead . First and foremost as a trainee dry suit diver Linnea should have never been allowed under an instructor to attempt a deep cold water dive . The equipment Linnea was supplied and used plus the fact of lack of training in the use of Dry suite use . The fact that there was no inflator hose on her equipment is the main reason for Linnea's Death .
This is not just Gross negligence . The Instructor new and decided to go on with the dive knowing this and is therefore guilty of at very least manslaughter .
Thanks for the view and level comment, Alex. Hope to see you around the channel.
negligent homicide at the very least.
What responsibility lies with Linnea? Probably she was on the very poor end of negligent instruction and training but from what this guy has covered in the video many things that were done incorrectly would/should be glaringly and obviously incorrect to someone who knows what's going on.. So the girl clearly had zero clue what she was doing despite supposedly having training and some sort of certifications.
That might be ok or relatively harmless in many endeavors. One in which you can die from very small mistakes, not so much.
There is a sort of tacit understanding that you know what's going on to some extent- one of the instructors expressed as much concerning Linnea.
In the end she clearly didn't
Not against some sort of punishment for responsible parties. But the idea the bulk of responsibility doesn't fall on Linnea is absurd.
I would never go diving even under tutelage and instruction of certified experts, as I wouldn't have a fuking clue what's going on, and I'm sure as fuk not going to trust that someone is going to properly instruct me in a situation where inches can kill you and, as happened Here, even someone knowing you're in trouble and attempting to help you is futile
RIP Linnea
@@urdadshusband781
"But the idea the bulk of responsibility doesn't fall on Linnea is absurd."
Bullshit. She contracted and paid for a company that represented themselves as certified experts and qualified trainers to teach her how to do something. The entire point of a thing like this is that the students don't know what they're doing and trying to learn. If I went to a flight school and the instructor pilot put me in an airplane where the maintenance had been neglected and then told me to pull 5G and the wing fell off, that's almost entirely on the instructor and school, not on me.
Yes, you could argue that even with just the basic certification, she should've recognized that there were a few things wrong, but at *most*, that puts a tiny fraction of the blame on her. The great majority of the blame can only lie with the company that promised to not only keep her safe, but also to teach her the safe protocols so she could get an additional certification to dive on her own, and they clearly failed this at a level that obviously counts as gross negligence.
Dry suit diving is a skill. You can't just jump in and go. ANY competent OWI knows this. Snow let Linnea dry suit dive with no training and no way to inflate her dry suit. Then she overweighted her. She knows exactly what went wrong and needs to be held responsible.
I would say that if you are in a position where safety is the utmost importance in your service and you knowingly ignore safety protocol which leads to a death, that should be criminal. I'd still like to hear how they calculated 44 lbs of weight to an athletic 18 y/o young lady.
Exactly. My daughter dives. One she went on they under weighted her, which was frustrating, but better to be under weighted than over weighted. And that's just for starters!!
exactly! I'm a 250lm male and in drysuit (Fourth Element Argonaut 2 tri-lam), I typically use 22lb in freshwater with XeroTherm undergarments & base. 4 in trim and 9 in each dumpable pocket. 44 is insanity!
@@SoCalCycleLawyer That was 29 pounds at maximum capacity. I'd doubt anyone would trim to run their bdc on maximum lift for a more or less neutral trim.
Rarely is negligence charged criminally. This is going to be a civil suit.
It’s really sad. It’s aggravating cuz there are so many things the young person couldn’t do different since they’re learning through experience. While the instructor is there to do their job well by I guess not responsible for doing their job. If they get someone killed cuz they didn’t do their job they don’t get punished?? That’s harsh. Shouldn’t let someone walk away from such a big thing as if they forgot to sweep or hang up the equipment the right way too many times.
Lol wut? All instances meeting the statutory demands of the applicable law are charged criminally and one does not preclude the other. You don’t choose one or the other.
Sadly you are correct. Even though criminal negligence is very much a thing...and CAN be pursued...you very rarely see prosecutors or judges willing to put ppl in jail for it unless its something related to a criminal act. Dont ask me why. Politics...money...who knows.
It almost always gets pushed down to a civil case. Fkn sad
What the F. This girl had her whole life ahead of her and it was taken through negligence. Yet there is zero accountability. I will try contacting and hopefully it does some good. I hope her spirit can rest in peace knowing how much people care and want to prevent anything like this from happening again.
There was a lawsuit payout. That is not zero accountability. Zero accountability would mean zero accountability.
''still did not know what had gone wrong'' Hope other diver will be protected from these idiots!
Absolutely, Remco...
my thoughts.. what went wrong!!?? errr a dry suit inflated hose would’ve go a LONG way to preventing this
Some of my closest friends are attorneys, they generally seek expert advice on matters which they may not be the ultimate authority. I would hope that Mr Johnson’s office would reach out to PADI and other scuba centers and safety regulatory bodies in the state of Montana to get opinions on his matter. I genuinely hope that PADI takes steps to ensure that this shop owner can never knowingly or unknowingly endanger someone else’s life.
Good point, Larry.
Padi will never say that Snow was guilty of the death because if they say so, they may be involved. I don't know who the fuck taught to dive to Snow ! I would love to have her instructor number and to check how many divers she certified ! I hope that this case will be known all the around the world in every dive shop so she will never work again ! She is a 40 or 50 years old woman and she is totally responsible, she doesn't want assume what she did. She could be the mother of this young girl ! That's really shocking !
How can that be? They killed her. Basically, they violated every basic diving rule, every rule of being a dive instructor,
that's actually manslaughter (at least where I'm from).
negligent homicide.
I am an open water diver (SSI) certified in 1992. I honestly do not know how many dives I’ve been on (75?). The only issue I ever had was a tank o-ring leaking therefore using up my air early.
The number one thing before a dive is an equipment checklist: Working BC, a mask that fits your face, flippers, working regulator with working gauges, full air tank(s), weight belt with proper weights, wet suit depending on temperature. Anything missing equals No Diving!
It is inexcusable to not have a weight belt PEROID! If you have a problem your fail safe line of self rescue is drop your weight belt and float to the surface.
In my opinion there should be a known experience level of a student. A novice taking an experienced course is already leading to a path of uncertainty/failure.
That dive instructor knowing there was not a weight belt and stuffing weights into whatever she could find that would hold weights took it to criminally negligent in my opinion.
Weight belt is not the main issue. Never dive without the proper gear. "Inflator hose" If this was a training dive the instructor should never be put in a teaching capacity again.
If you weigh yourself correctly especially in a wetsuit, you can make a safe ascent even with bcd failure. This poor lady had way too much weight on her. Many divers unfortunately put on too much weight first
Since this was a DIVE TEST the instructor should have been ABSOLUTELY CONCERNED about the COMPETENCY of every diver and ABILITY TO COMPLETE THE DIVE since that is what they were there to determine. Am I the only one who sees it this way?
Any "Dive Instructor" who does not have emergency planning in place and is not checking on the divers that are literally in trouble ten feet away from them should have their license stripped at minimum. This seems like a poorly overseen industry just looking from the outside.
With a death the previous year, I'd say they were definitely negligent! UNBELIEVABLE! Weighing her down in fresh water, no way to release the weights, the lack of the valve in the dry suit, going back to shore and leaving her there before trying to save her, and no negligence? There should have been a dive instructor or diver/judge with some even basic knowledge of diving. This was a disaster! Like you said red flags flying before the dive like crazy! COME ON!
It does not surprise me that they did not find criminal negligence in the criminal court system, but the civil law suit, I believe, will be an entirely different matter. There's clear negligence that resulted in the death of a human here, regardless of intent.
Seems the prosecutors are as incompetent as the instructors were. Both are paid to know better than that.
Guarantee this has a political connection somewhere, find out who is connected to the "instructor" this is absolutely disgusting.
No the prosecutor know the law you don't. Knowing conduct is the key legal point. It's now a civil matter.
@@mgoo1713 Actually, I do know the law. And actually, civil court action is a poor excuse for justice that wasn’t done in penal law.
They're competent enough to be strategic and prosecute what is actionable.
It's not about anyone's moral outrage, no matter how justified - it's about what can actually secure a case: if they can't *prove" that Snow *knowingly* endangered Linnea, how ever are you expecting them to prosecute that, particular, case?..
Meanwhile, the wheels are in motion - and where this is such an horrific, endless catalogue of, tragic, homicidal incompetence and feckless disregard, there seems plenty enough to ensure that, somebody, will find themselves crushed under those same wheels - getting charged with something that they just can't avoid, leading to an awful and growing, "I'm going to jail", feeling. In this case, it looks set to be a sensation so strong and certain that it actually turns into an awful, gag-making, taste that sits at the back of their tongue, 24hrs a day - no matter how much they try to swallow it down.
What is with the prosecuting attorneys NOT prosecuting cases any more? It's disgusting.
What a travesty. Thank you for keeping us updated. My heart is with her family.
I emailed the state attorney..... so mad!!
An appeal should have been filed immediately.
Jim, thanks for posting this. Appreciate the respectful and sensitive approach taken. A diver student literally depends on his/her instructor to provide clear and safe instructions. There are just too many red flags to ignore here. A very sad incident and we can only hope and pray for the Mills that they will find justice and closure.
Thanks, Arief!
Negligence is a civil matter rarely prosecuted criminally. She may not serve Jail time now but she’ll be paying for this for the rest of her life.
What an absolute shame. I’m hopeful the civil suit will work in the families favor. She deserves justice…and it should absolutely financially ruin that instructor to the point it will prevent future accidents.
Perhaps the state doesn’t have an understanding of scuba and the risks and knowledge required for it? It’s absurd, either way.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo If anyone can win the civil case it is the attorney they have, he has a very good reputation of being the go to dude for scuba litigation. Of course we should note, that while the case presented by the Mill's complaint is very damning, that is just one side of the narrative and is presented in the best light possible for their case. The defense will present their own case with their own evidence that may change the narrative. And a jury will decide which narrative they believe.
She’s part culpable on this too. Just saying.
@@billbrooke4355 It was clearly stated about her lack of experience and poor preperation. While I do not exclude what sure seems like a shoddy run operation, one has to take some personal responsibility. Going for advanced certification after 1.5-2 years of no diving and then choosing near freezing water conditions at altitude also sure comes off as a bit reckless.
This whole operation seems like a make money off anyone and damn the torpedos.
@@TheBeingRealI disagree. The whole point of signing up for a beginner class is because you are trying something new and don't know what you're doing. That's the entire premise. A beginner can't be held responsible for doing what the instructor says if the instructor is wrong. The instructor has marketed and sold their ability to tell the beginner what to do correctly, that is the role of the instructor.
My thoughts echo each comment I read; this story is heartbreaking. As a SCUBA instructor, this is open and shut to me, and one interview with a SCUBA expert would have provided the AG with that information. What this brought home for me today (two years later, I know) is the trust that our students put in us when we take them in the water. We have to be worthy of that trust-every student, every dive.
Sad state of affairs. The high bar of “intent” does make it more difficult to convict. I hope charges are filed that lead to conviction. It was negligence to a criminal level.
I am not sure intent is the key factor here. From what I understand the issue at hand is whether or not the instructor was knowingly negligent in their duties.
@@echonovember636 Intent is the key factor in the difference between charges. I’m no lawyer, but it seems to me a lesser charge is the way to go….. as the video wraps up with. I’m agreeing.
I wasn't aware that one has to be "knowingly" negligent in order to be held accountable. If you are required to do steps A, B, and C in order for things to be certifiably safe...but you fail to do step B and someone dies....that seems like textbook negligence to me.
Whether you meant to skip step B or not shouldn't be a factor
Great video please keep posting updates!!
That's the plan! Hope to see you around the channel.
How does she get out of justice with that lousy defense of 'I just didn't think I needed to instruct while I was instructing?!'
From what I understand, lawyers want to be judges, this requires they win cases, so they only prosecute cases they KNOW they can win. I wonder if that's playing a role here... PROSECUTOR has reasonable doubt from not looking at this case with help from a knowledgeable diver. Snow acted with such complete negligence, it easily rose to the level of criminal. This wasn't a dive-along, it was supposed to be instruction! But her defense is... 'i thought she could do the dive by herself.' WHAT? Why the hell are you even there? To instruct someone is to give them a skill they don't yet have competence in.
But clearly snow didn't have the skill to give! She should at the very least, least have any certification she has removed.
The best course of action that can be taken now is to publicize this incident as much as possible to discourage anyone from seeking out the services of this inept business.
If the system wont keep these ppl from putting more students in harms way, then future potential students need to be given proper warning about their negligent history
This is disgusting that Snow's lack of duty of care is not criminally culpable. If this had happened in the UK the HSE (Health & Safety Executive, which is a Government dept) would have prosecuted without a doubt and Ms Snow would have found herself in court. I feel so sorry for Miss Mills family.
Truly unbelievable! What a nightmare for the poor family. And a huge blackeye for the whole dive community. Shame on Gull Dive Shop & Deborah Snow. Diver down & out.
Absolutely outrageous!
Two stages of negligence. 1st Stage any one with a simple basic understanding of scuba diving can determine that this instructor was criminally negligent. DID PADI actually certify this individual. Padi as well as all the individuals responsible for training this "so called certified instructor" should also be held in civil court to be negligent. 2nd: a novice prosecutor in a "landlocked state" with minimal knowledge of the hazards of diving..
OK so even if you can say that SNOW did not knowingly do anything, my mind is blown away how this is possible. I am nothing, but an AOW certified diver of 15 years and 600+ dives. There is NO WAY I would let someone get into the water with the MANY red flags that are listed. The divers I dive with have a somewhat unwritten rule of 3's/ IF three things go wrong you call the dive and go home. I have had this happen once and I did just that. Knowingly let and very inexperienced diver buy a drysuit without proper certification or training. Knowingly took that diver out without a drysuit hose AND grossly overweighted them for a fresh water dive. All of said weights were pretty much knowingly unditchable. Knowingly let her do a dive with really no assigned dive buddy or briefing. She was so overweighted that even the gentlemen who tried to help her could not lift them both. Knowingly let other divers get into the water without a proper torch, let alone a backup. So by our unwritten rule of 3's this dive should NEVER have happened. It is very sad that no one will step up and take responsibility. I also hope that the diver BOB is getting help dealing with this because I cannot imagine the trauma for him as well.
I thank you so much for all the work you put into this. It's always very humbling when tragedy strikes. It is even more so when it was so preventable. Her parents are in my prayers. The feeling when you lose a child never goes away.
Thank you for keeping us updated on this case. This was 100% avoidable had she been under the care of competent instructors and for them to shift the blame on her, is absurd. My thoughts are with her family and anyone else who has been effected by this. I also hope the instructors involved get their certs taken away to avoid any more incidents.
I'd take justice in my own hands. I'd make sure all involved felt exactly if not 10 fold worse what my daughter felt....
I can tell you for a fact palms were greased by those in the industry because a precedence would be set. Diver instructors can't be held responsible after all...
I'm personally sick of America and it's lack of Justice. They protect criminals and the rich, crap on the poor and the victims.
Vigilante Justice is gonna happen...
A reckoning is building....
Wow! This is unbelievable that the instructors and the dive facility were not held accountable. This is an obvious case of extreme negligence. Instructors have a duty to provide an acceptable standard of care to their students. They obviously did not even follow the written Standards and Procedures required of all Scuba instructors. The family needs to get a good lawyer and a professional instructor and sue the crap out of the instructors.
How could this (cough) instructor not know that the was a substantial risk of death or injury? Considering the number of red flags that were there, this dive could have easily been mistaken for an International Workers' Day parade.
Those instructors and company should be charged with RH, or something. That was a bright young life snuffed out early by false instructors. I think she knew there was something wrong from the start, but she thought they was her experienced counter parts and put her life in there hands. Stuffing weights, the suit, charges should be brought up.
I do not think the instructor Snow should carry all the blame here, although from what I have read and seen I am concerned of her fitness as an instructor.
I have limited dive experience, but have qualified as a "Commercial Diver".
In my opinion the site was not a suitable place for inexperienced divers because it was not a shallow dive, it had one ledge leading to a drop and another ledge, to another drop and so on until the bottom some 30feet+.
Again there was no type phone or radio service to call for emergency of any kind. Here I do think Montana are partly responsible for allowing the school to operate in such a place.
As Commercial Divers, we were not allowed to enter the water, until the safety diver was all kitted up and sitting at the side of the dock ready to go, all he had to do is stand up take two steps forward and he was in the drink.
Also as commercial divers we were obviously, always tethered, I seem to remember three scuba dives where we were not, two in a flat harbour some 3 meters deep and a swimming pool.
In the UK, the fact that they improvised and put the lead weights in to pockets where they were difficult to ditch in an emergency would be enough on it's own for the company to be prosecuted for manslaughter by the HSE (Health and Safety Executive).
They entered the water, some 5 minutes before nightfall, this made it a night dive. How many were experienced enough as divers to handle another level of diving or had the correct equipment for the extra level eg. torches, knives etc.
The last thing I will mention (or we will be here all day). Any diver new to using a BCD or an inflatable dry suite should get used to using one in a pool or if they are in safe open water, then they should have a one to one with an instructor until they have familiarize them selves with using one and only then should they be allowed to enter open water with such devices.
Diving, can be and is fun and a wonderful experience. But you are operating in a very hostile environment for humans, it can be very treacherous if you do not respect it's dangerous.
Balanced and informed comment, Ben. Thanks and hope to see you around the channel comments in the future.
If that were me, those instructors would have killed me too. This is truly a tragedy that shouldn't have happened.
This is definitely sad news. Hopefully PADI takes action to pull the instructor's certs. As for the legal intricacies, I think the hard part would be proving that the instructor had "mens rea". Hopefully the civil suit is more fruitful.
I know zip about diving, but having watched the last video (excellent yet tragic, btw) and availing myself of the family's suit, I'm baffled why they can't charge Snow and crew with some form of criminal negligence?! Surely the case meets some threshold?
How tragic is our Justice system??? If someone had inadvertently and accidentally messed with a puddle connected to an endangered species, they would see jail time and a fine. But here a person, a human was harmed to the point of death by a very negligent person or persons, and not one criminal charge is considered???
Sounds like Snow is well connected. That's a shame.
Connections don't stop
the occasional stray bullet ....
Just sayin....
That's just crazy..........
At this point I just wish all the worst to the instructor, and the prosecution here did no better....
How is this not a crime? If you leave debris on the floor where workers may go on a construction jobsite that is a crime per OSHA rules. And that is something that doesn't directly have a victim let alone a death. ..
Good analysis and investigation.
Suggestion: Please keep your voice up & don't let it fall off. It's hard to watch a video and keep fiddling with volume.
Good luck with your channel.
Many thanks for the input, KW...Yeah, I gotta lot to improve upon 👍
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo You're off to a great start.
Tasteful and informative handling of Linnea's death and aftermath.
This dive center should be blacklisted
Why the prosecution didn't then go for one of the lesser negligence charges is baffling...I would hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but this looks a whole lot like 'it's not what you know it's who you know'
It's entirely possible that by going for a lesser criminal charge it may have a negative impact on the civil suit. Not a lawyer, so it is just a guess.
@Loken Grimsward :
That 'prosecutor' is so new to the job, she doesn't even know her own name, yet!
I guess Snow needs to murder one more before they reclassify as a serial killer?
I gaurantee her lawyer is telling her to pretend she still "doesn't understand what went wrong". Pitiful.
I see maddening cases of dropped charges or refusal to charge constantly these days. It sucks.
My condolences to the Mills family.
Now if that was anyone of my children I would've been on a rampage. I do believe an eye for an eye, and I would get justice for my child. I've seen countless times where our so called law has done nothing to get justice for those that needed it. And, I have no problems with getting it for any of my children.
What are you suggesting? Killing one of snow’s children? Think about what you’re saying. Murder will not bring Linnea back. Education and proper procedures will do more to save lives like Linnea’s than being vengeful ever will.
The instructor should be in prison for 10-20 years and never be allowed to instruct/dive again. Such recklessness should have consequences and the consequences should lead to it not happening again.
Much love and peace to her family. Your memory lives on Linnea. 💕
@@maybelikealittlebit everybody responds in their own way. You have your way, and I have mine.
445 foot dive ? Is that what I read. But..when i started to dive there was no dry suit training or cert. Im an instructor and dont have one for myself. I do train but dont cert as here in Canada dry suit is the norm
HI SDG...yeah, that's a bit misleading. The max depth of that lake is something like 445.
Outrageous! I hope the family can get some relief from a civil suit, though it seems the DA doesn't have a good grasp of diving...
My thoughts exactly
They need to make a separate case against the Prosecutor's office!
Excellent analysis Jim. This is absolutely shocking and disturbing. The judge clearly has no understanding what-so-ever of scuba diving. Anyone who reads the lawsuit would be dumbfounded by this decision. At the very least, I would have thought that Deborah Snow is guilty of criminal negligence. This case raises very serious questions about the legal responsibilities of diving instructors, dive guides and diving schools. If this case is used as a precedent, then it seems that diving professionals have just been given a get-out-of jail free card. The ultimate legal responsibility for their own safety now seems to lie firmly with the individual diver, and not the instructor, guide, or dive school. Let's see what happens with the civil case.
It should be noted that, even with proper weighting and an inflator hose, your dry-suit also needs to be a reasonably good fit. Years ago I did two BSAC courses in very baggy rented dry-suits (I'm tall but thin) and I had all sorts of problems, including lost fins and uncontrolled, feet-first ascents. I might add that I am appalled that Linnea wasn't given better equipment and guidance. I went on as a working DM with both BSAC/CMAS certification and with PADI certification and I always felt that the PADI system was more interested in ticking boxes than in turning out really solid divers.
There was no "buddy check" meaning she should have had a "required drysuit" with a "required connector hose". Being overweighted, she was sadly put in a negative situation when she entered the water. RIP Linnea. Please pray for Linnea's family and friends and also please pray for those who were directly involved in this tragedy.
Strange - I remember when I did my training for the CMAS certificate we started that course with a classroom theoretical lesson. This taught us the purpose of the individual bits and pieces of the diving equipment and how they functioned. The following dives took place in about 5 feet of water in order to get us familiarized with the gear. If such a lesson/training had been given to those students prior to their renting the dry suits they should have known the dangers of diving in a dry suit that you can't inflate. This is almost as bad as jumping into the water with a lead belt but without the hose that allows inflation of your buoancy vest. Were these students not taught the use of dry suits prior to renting one? I'm sure PADI has a certification for dry suit diving. So why rent a dry suit to a person who does not have such a certificate?
UNBELIEVABLE
This is like a gun shop selling a firearm to a minor. Only difference the gun shop owner and/or employees would be criminally charged and likely convicted. They will also be open to civil lawsuits.
😳😳😳😳. No charges!?!? Insanity!
Also selling a dry suit without an inflator hose should be criminal. It’s like selling a car without brakes
The family of a Missoula woman who died while Scuba Diving in Glacier National Park in 2020 reached a settlement in a lawsuit against Gull Dive Center, Dive Instructor Debbie Snow and the Professional Association of Diving Instructors.
Now, the family of 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills continues to push the U.S. Attorney’s Office for Montana and the U.S. Department of the Interior, which oversees the National Park Service, to reopen its investigation into Mills’ Nov. 1, 2020, death in Lake McDonald.
The National Park Service may have botched its investigation of the death by overlooking vital evidence and failing to consult its own diving experts or those from outside agencies, according to David Concannon, an attorney representing the Mills family.
A proper investigation, David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family said, should give Federal Prosecutors sufficient evidence to charge Dive Instructor Debbie Snow with negligent homicide.
18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ death was not a simple accident due to equipment failure, he said, but instead the result of “Drysuit Squeeze,” a deadly phenomenon in which a malfunctioning Drysuit isn’t filled with air and dangerously constricts the person inside.
Drysuit Squeeze can prevent a person from breathing or from ascending to the surface.
On Tuesday, David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family said he couldn’t discuss the lawsuit settlement, which is confidential.
Bob Gentry, a Scuba Diver also on the fatal outing, his Wife Shannon and their child, a minor, were also Plaintiffs in the lawsuit alongside Linnea’s Parents, Scott and Lisa Mills, and Linnea Mills’s Estate.
Susan Moriarity Miltko, a Missoula-based Attorney with Williams Law Firm, represented Debbie Snow and Gull Dive Center owners David and Jeannine Olson.
Attorney with Williams Law Firm Susan Moriarity Miltko did not respond to multiple voicemails Tuesday and Wednesday. The Missoulian was unable to reach Debbie Snow.
Business records with the Montana Secretary of State show that the David and Jeannine Olson dissolved Gull Dive Center last year.
The business had been registered at the same West Broadway address as Gull Ski and Snowboard and Gull Boats and RV.
The phone number on Gull Dive Center’s Facebook page goes to Gull Boats and RV.
On Tuesday, a receptionist at Gull Boats and RV said that Gull Dive closed down “many years ago,” and that she had never heard of David or Jeannine Olson.
David Olson is also the president of First Interstate Bank in Missoula.
David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family is an Attorney who usually represents Dive Companies defending themselves in court after clients are injured or killed on dives.
He also investigates diving accidents around the U.S. and has worked with major undersea recovery operations.
He generally investigates about 12 to 16 scuba fatalities each year, he said, and had already investigated a different case with the National Park Service earlier in 2020.
David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family said the investigation was initially handled well by Glacier National Park Rangers, but it fell apart when investigators from the National Park Service’ nationwide Investigative Services Branch took over from the park.
“We don't have any problems at all with the way the investigation was handled at Glacier National Park,” he said, noting that Rangers there “did everything right” after 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ died.
“It was when the National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch came in.”
He said that National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch investigators “never looked for evidence of (National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch’s) impairment, despite knowing this could be a significant issue,” and “they relied on what Dive Instructor Debbie Snow told them” as they presented their investigation to the U.S. Attorney’s Office.
The investigators admitted in interviews that they know essentially nothing about diving.
Glacier National Park Rangers initially investigating the death had reached out to the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Office Dive Team and the Canadian Coast Guard, both of which have experience investigating diver deaths related to Drysuit Squeeze.
The Rangers also contacted the National Park Service Dive Safety Officer and National Dive Control Board.
And they contacted the U.S. Navy, which was to inspect all of the equipment the Divers used that day.
When the National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch took over the investigation, David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family said, they ended communication with the Dive Team, Coast Guard, Dive Safety Officer, National Diving Control Board and the Navy.
The National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch Investigators also told Debbie Snow and others not to speak with David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family as he investigated 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ death on behalf of her family.
“The National Park Service’ Investigative Services Branch Investigators did not know what they did not know - and they did not want to know,” he said.
“It's garbage.
The investigation's just garbage.
They threw the investigation in the toilet.”
Assistant U.S. Attorney Karla Painter declined to charge Debbie Snow with a crime.
Concannon said, “There was plenty of evidence that was there that was discovered and ignored.”
Debbie Snow, a Gull instructor, wrongly reassured 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills that she could dive in an incomplete Drysuit that lacked an inflator hose, according to witness testimony and interviews with Debbie Snow conducted by National Park Service Investigators.
Debbie Snow also zipped lead weights into pockets of 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ buoyancy control vest, which had been rented from Gull.
18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ regulator, the device that allows a diver to breathe air from their tank, was not designed for cold-water use.
Debbie Snow did not perform standard pre-dive checks or assign dive buddies.
Debbie Snow was not aware of 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills' struggling underwater until after Debbie Snow surfaced and another diver alerted her that 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills' had plummeted to 120 feet and seemed unable to breathe.
And profiles of Debbie Snow’s and 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills' dives indicate that Debbie Snow was at the surface as 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills' drowned 120 feet below.
Gull and Debbie Snow lacked the Required Permit for Commercial Diving in the National Park, according to court documents.
And Debbie Snow took 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ dive equipment, including her personal dive computer, home with her after 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills died, instead of turning the equipment over to Investigators.
Debbie Snow later lied to Investigators that data from 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ computer couldn’t be downloaded off the device, according to David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family.
“Lying to Federal Investigators is a Felony,” David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family said. “That alone should have been a Felony.
Then you've got Negligent Homicide to add to that."
David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family and the family have contacted the Inspector General Of The Department Of The Interior, as well as a Congress Member who sits on a committee that oversees the Department.
And they are escalating their concerns within the U.S. Attorney’s Office.
“The Assistant U.S. Attorney should look at ALL the evidence objectively, with the help of competent investigators and experts, both of which were lacking in the earlier investigation,” Lisa Mills wrote in a message Tuesday.
David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family echoed Lisa Mills’ sentiment.
But, he said, Assistant U.S. Attorney “Karla Painter is not eager to open this case again.
Assistant U.S. Attorney “Karla Painter was dead silent the last time I talked with her.”
In the wake of 18-Year-Old Linnea Mills’ death, her brother Nick founded The Linnea Foundation givebutter.com/linnea
facebook.com/thelinneafoundation
to further the work that she supported.
The The Linnea Foundation aims to “support social and environmental causes, particularly those causes that support at-risk youth and/or vulnerable or marginalized people, promote equality and justice, and/or help protect and secure clean water and the long term sustainability of natural resources,” according to a webpage for the nonprofit.
Lisa Mills said Wednesday that Nick Mills was currently in Alaska learning proper Drysuit Diving Techniques and training for rescue diving.
David Concannon attorney representing the Mills family continues to push ahead, too:
“My work isn't done. I'm committed to helping the Mills family get justice for their daughter.”
Joshua Murdock Wednesday 15th February 2023 Missoulian
missoulian.com/news/local/lawsuit-settled-family-pushes-for-charges-in-gull-scuba-death/article_4ee4cf36-9e25-596e-9b3a-bf548931b670.html?.com&Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&PostUp&lctg=1210662&tn_email_eh1=f629c1a026a9affccd8d9788471236f2b5aaf889
What a load of old shite... how can NO criminal charges be made! Manslaughter at the least! Wrong wrong wrong!!!
It doesn't matter if they "understood" the dangers they "should" have ,I feel.
2 things. I don't dive. Got left behind on a snorkeling trip when we was about 12yrs old. Luckily there was a little cove by where we was and I only waited there for 30mins to an hour before a boat with dive "instructors' picked me up. They were on the lead and tail of this group. I got blamed for "not keeping up ". This incident left me very untrusting of dive companies.
Secondly, shouldn't the company and the instructors be found negligent? I don't care how long you've been diving or how many dives you have. If you pay for a dive company to take you on a dive, shouldn't they be on alert for any potential problems? Also, shouldn't the company or instructors be checking All of their gear prior to a dive? Really, at the end of day, they probably need to make sure that the guests equipment works as well. This is tragic. 2 deaths at the same company within 1-3yrs. Sad.
My heart goes out to the family. I am truly sorry for your loss.
A young human died cuz they weren’t informed by their instructors well enough to avoid an accident, along with her instructors neglecting to do their job well enough to save or help a human in need. Someone should be charged for this girl’s death. It’s really aggravating to hear no one was charged and this girl is dead. It seems like there will be a civil case and that’s just to get money?
I just saw your first video on this case from 10 months ago, and this case is just so tragic. You did such an amazing job at presenting this case & tragedy with so much respect and attention to detail! I really appreciated all the added extra input from the family/family’s lawyer, getting the facts straight is important in getting justice for such a young bright life lost.
Hopefully the outcome of this case could help avoid negligence and tragedies like this again in the future 🥺🤿
With drysuits "No Hose. No Dive" -- the teen should never been allowed to dive. How are they still allowed to teach???
When someone goes to a dive center and pays for a service and this same dive center charges that customer under a customer - professional institution negotiation proved and under professional statement rules and laws, why this "professional institution" can't be charged on liability and civil responsibility? Please could someone clarify it to me?
Snow was claiming she was not aware of what went wrong, yet she had done instructor training. After my first days of training and book work for OW, with no dives logged, I could have highlighted half of the errors, even without drysuit diving. So this is clearly a case of trying to make it look like it's HER instructor/qualification authority that is to blame, and somehow the US Attorney's office is falling for it?
Snow clearly made terrible mistakes that cost this young girl her life, and it most likely could have been prevented by a professional instructor
Gross negligence is what they did! 1) cold water dive 2)night/tec dive 3) advanced open water dive 4)low visibility dive 5) no drysuit inflation whip 6) no training in a drysuit 7) most importantly shouldn't have been allowed in the water until properly trained. Fellow diver from Alaska, please be careful know your gear maintain your gear, and if you don't feel comfortable doing something or it seems odd to you when it comes to diving please don't be afraid to abort a dive it could mean your life.
And there it is. Man I just watched the other video, and then this popped up at the end of the video as a recommended video...
I can't say I'm surprised. Infuriated and disappointed, but not at all surprised.
there is no justice in the u.s. "justice" system
The state was negligent in getting more information from a diving expert. That could shed more light on the negligence of the whole operation. Including Snows credentials, and how much training she got to be an instructor.
This is a huge tragedy , only slightly less than the fatality ,,, these people are now free to do the same thing again.
The scary thing is to think how many times they got away with this negligent behavior in the past without incident. Guaranteed this was not the first time.
I would be more interested in knowing if PADI pulled the instructors certification..
WHAT?! that's crazy, from my understanding the shop/instructor were grossly negligent
When the truth no longer matters, justice no longer exists.
America in a nutshell.
If Snow did STILL not know what had gone wrong, she should not be a dive instructor and should GET instruction! I didn't know anything about drysuits, but from watching your previous video on this horrific, tragic case, even *I know how important it is to have the right equipment, not have weights zippered into pockets and have a suit that can inflate, so you can control your buoyancy! Jeez.
Drysuits are taught only as a specialty and not part of any regular Padi diving course except maybe as one of the specialty dives on an advanced open water. You do not need to be able to dive in a drysuit to be an instructor. Depending where you dive its quite possibe that some instructors have never even seen one in real life.. You do however need to be able to use one if you are going to teach that specialty.
I really do not understand how a certified instructor can tippy dance around the "knowingly" part. I can see how a lay person may be liable, yet not criminally negligent since he was not a "certified" instructor. But in this specific case, where she was a "certified" instructor, would not the certification have some legal implication that the trainer is knowledgeable of proper procedures and safety practices? Then again, it may be that "certified" and "licensed" have different legal implications. A license is issued by governmental regulatory body. While a certificate is issued by any Joe that takes your money. Not to say that some Joes are not strict, but some do not care. I had a co-worker that attended a one week seminar and came back as a "certified nutritionist", whatever the hell that meant in his case as he knew nothing about biology or chemistry but the people that charged for the seminar gave him that at the end. Maybe, for all our perceptions, certifications do not carry much of a legal weight and do not make you different from lay persons and here we are thinking of certifications as licenses.
I suppose it all hinges on how much responsibility is placed on the pro diver and how much goes to the person who died gross negligence for the instructor is an understatement
I had to write a email to the attorney office. Just to ask them to learn about driving or get instructions from a pro about it,and look at Snow or the drive shop again.
Because what there saying is a drunk driver isn't liable for murder because they didn't set out to kill anyone. It makes no sense.
Snow did everything possible to make sure that this poor girl died from there inactions,and actions of lead shot on her pockets? Insane, maybe the attorney office is family with Snow or something?
This just shows that the attorney is just ignorant of the fact of how this person (Snow) is responsible. If the attorney knew how diving worked they would charge her. They just don't want take the time to learn about it.
I am not an attorney, but why would a U.S. Attorney, who should not have jurisdiction to charge someone with violating a state statute, refer to a state statute in this case?
purposely botched case of manslaughter/murder or however they'd refer to that in legalese latin imao. 4sure
According to the facts, that instructor had never observed her diving a dry-suit. The instructor loaded her down with weights w/o knowing what was appropriate (was not tested), and over-weighted her breaking a basic fundamental. We always instructed our students to never put rocks in their pockets to achieve proper weighting as they would not be able to easily drop them in the event of an emergency ascent being required. At the point where she is doing advanced SCUBA, doffing/dawning of gear while submerged should have been sufficiently drilled before this dive ever occurred. She could have saved herself if properly trained, and these people failed her completely. Wish I had been there. This dive would have never happened... There seems to be an epidemic of rampant incompetence. Here we see that the Department of Justice has incompetent prosecutors who are unwilling to do their job. This instructor IS criminally negligent, and did take actions that placed this young women in immediate danger. She then failed to protect/save her from the peril she created. 100% beyond any reasonable doubt for anyone who knows what they are talking about.
thanks for posting this and KUDOS MILLE for working with the family. .......i have to ask that ...if instructor has done this before with other people and has had no problem with it, then by that precidence, the instructor wasnt thinking about what was obvious to all of us here. so could their be a case for negligent homicide? My take NAUI 60540L, cutting corners might help in the short run, but may kill someone eventualy. here IS that eventuality. .....too many instructors have lost the capacity to teach BC they have lost the capacity to practice the basics and learn. I may not be perfect (in progress maybe) but I have never lost a student. not even close!
I'm not a diver, or an expert on this subject. So I have a question about this case, that baffles me a bit.
Linnea had 44lbs on her body, which could not be dropped in an emergency.
Is that normal?
In my lack of knowlegde, I would demand a weight belt instead. I wouldn't dive, unless I knew I could ditch the extra weight quickly and safely.
I don't want to put any blame on poor Linnea! I am simply wondering if it is normal to dive with undroppable weight.
TOTALLY abnormal. Great observation.
Federal prosecutors have a 95% conviction rate, they don't take cases where winning is almost assured. Unfortunately this is a very technical case that would be a hard sale to a jury.
@@DiscoveryDiversTokyo Heck even cases that are pretty easy to convict aren't taken. A friend of mine is a BP agent, and he told me that an agent has to be sent to the hospital to get the AUSA to even consider charging someone with battery on a federal agent.
@@Teampegleg Good grief...
The conviction rate is that high because they overcharge and the majority of people plead down to lesser charges. They could have done that here.
@@whitedog510 Even when they overcharge the additional charges need some basis in law. Ignoring the minor offenses committed, the prime charge would be some form of criminal negligence, likely involuntary manslaughter as I don't believe that the Feds have a specific criminally negligent homicide. I don't think they would have an easy time overcharging to any higher crimes as the elements of the crime just wouldn't fit.
Instead what you see is similar to the Chauvin case, where the proper charge would've been the manslaughter charge, but the charged him with up to murder 2. The Feds will do this by hitting you with every little crime involved. Get caught with a kilo of cocaine, while they were looking for the person who committed a drive by. Well you probably had a gun, so there is a couple of different gun charges. You probably were within a thousand feet of a school, so there is an enhancement. But if you agree to just plead down to possession with intention of distribution you've get five years and we all go home happy. Until you are commuted since you were only convicted of the drug charge and the person who created the list didn't look to see the details, and now you committed a murder because you were the violent person that did the drive by they just didn't have enough evidence to charge you at the time... something something justice.
No, I'm not bitter about how poor our justice system has become.