Man, this channel is going to be one of the most popular metal fabrication spots on RUclips some day. I'm really glad Karl Fisher mentioned you on his channel as someone he follows. I can sure see why he reccomended you; Stellar content!
I STARTED DOING THAT IN THE GOOD OLD GAS WELDING DAYS. IT WORKED THEN AND IT WORKS EVEN BETTER NOW. I JUST COULD NOT EXPLANE IT LIKE YOU DID. WELL DONE SON !
I recently started using this technique and it works. I've done the tack method for years and this process is really the way to go. Thanks for making these videos Mike.
Haven’t used my new tig yet. Got it for learning to do my body patch panels. Will do some practicing soon. Yours is the first I’ve seen to do this. Will try that too. Thanks. Great explanation.
Started out welding sheet metal 50 years ago. Man, I wish I had seen this back then. These days I'm a CWI. Your right, It's all about consistent heat input. Wish I could have seen the back side, but it looks really good. Thanks for the post, subscribed.
If "professional" nickels and dimes welders did a straight through weld like you did..... I wonder how well they'd do. Beautiful heat pattern.... like a machine did it. After watching your process and justification for doing so, I wonder about the guys that don't have the tools you do. Is the backyard welder/car dude better off with just slowly welding spots, or stitches? I love watching you do what you do, but some guys just have a welder, grinder, hammer and dolly. I have two of those, and a welder isn't one of them. 😁 ....asking for a friend. 😉 Once again, that weld was beautiful.
I was trained as a welder in Job Corp. First class was torch welding... Oxy/acetylene Welding, is almost exactly like tig welding. Just a different heat source. We had to certify in gas welding before moving on to arc. Chapped my hide at the time Glad I had that training now. Great looking work man . Dimes are for dumb ass es
4:18 Lower amps is likely a longer period of time where heat is applied as well- which actually is more heat travel and more heat deformation in my somewhat little experience.
I agree with your method. When I was a sheet metal model maker apprentice back in the 1970's, that is how we were taught. I have arc, mig and tig welders in my shop today, and I rarely roll out my mig welder.I just don't care for it. The control on the tig process is so good you can control warpage much more than mig. This was a really good video, thank you.
Love the content. You are spot on about TIG welding. Hard to beat a Miller syncrowave TIG welder. I use the same welder at work but I use the TIG button on the torch handle instead of a foot pedal. I feel more stable with both feet on the floor and still have all the control at my finger tip. Great point that nobody sees a pretty weld once it is finished out. Your heat control is great, It is easy to set the heat but you have to be able to keep a consistent speed. Your fit up skills are obvious seeing such a consistent heat zone. All the pieces coming together, quality parts, fit up, weld preparation, excellent finished panel. Frank
Hi Mike, I love the channel and thank you for sharing your knowledge. I I totally understand why you are using the power hammer for production speed, but would it be possible for you to also include a small demonstration on how to complete some of these tasks with hand tools as well in your videos please? Thanks.
Thank you for this video. I too prefer TIG welding sheet metal. I spent hours chasing the warpage. Learned of this technique from Christian Sosa, I have since become a true believer. Thanks again!
Mike hands down this is the best no nonsense video on welding sheet! I always did it jumping around till I caught some of your stuff on Instagram and started running it continuous with .030 rod. DAY and NIGHT difference. Thank you for all you share on here. Your straight to it approach and your commitment to giving all the details make every one of your videos worth well beyond the time spent watching them.
Mr. Marks at House of Pain has been helping me with my metal shaping. Everything is GTAW or Oxy-fuel welded. He has me tack a panel up, hammer the tacks then weld in long sections. Since I rarely do long straight welds it isn't as easy and straightforward as your panel. But, like you show, it's about the heat affected zone and the physics involved. You can make them work for/with you or you can fight them! Nice video.
Just as you indicated here, I was taught to TIG panels, close fit-up, tack every inch or so. then continues TIG weld the seam. Always works, just need to develop the skills.
You can certainly do the job. I’d like to learn more of you skill techniques to learn more. From welding to hammering properly. What I’ve learnt here is 14:48 you can do the job.
Great educational content. Your teaching is very well done and your editing is very professional. I see a lot of other channels referencing your quality of work and content. Keep up the great content.
Yup, I do the same thing with 16ga trailer fenders on mig but once you start you gotta drop the hammer keep truckin until the end, i still get alittle rush trying to out pace the burn through 😂, great content and like everyone said straight and to the point 👍🏼
After seeing this video, I need to practice and work on learning to tig weld. Superb detail, explanation of the method behind the theory behind the and video!
Ive always heard you say this and I’ve seen it first hand on low crown panels especially. You can visibly see the inconsistent distortion from starting/stoping in the middle of the panel. You’ll see a very consistent slightly raised area from the weld then a little pucker right where the start or stop occurred.
I would submit that when all we had was oxyacetylene welding there was a greater chance of warpage of sheet metal and the need for tacking and hammering metal was necessary, But, with the Tig welding process we can concentrate an amount of heat in a smaller area as shown by the heat strip of about one inch. So, we have better technology available to people in today's world than before when all we had was oxyacetylene and stick welding along with a gas cutting torch to do our work. This was a good technical presentation. And your explanation was spot on.
Great episode! Video content and production is A+. A follow-up of grind, massage and finish would be great. It is obvious that you have spent years dedicated to your craft. Thank you so much for sharing your hard earned wisdom.
In training to weld it was shown we have filler on hand but progress fusing the sheet edges together with filler only to add material reducing flame effect on the parent metal. I accept your style as a better method, just the way you tell & show ! Being a mere human myself, I try to use a backing strip of panel steel; as a heat sink to compensate for my fallible application.
The heat sink is not helping you at all. it may be hurting you. The heat sink pull the heat out meaning you need to run more amps to get good penetration. more amps means larger HAZ.
Excellent video Mike. I’m sure you are using a zero gap fit up, but didn’t catch that in the video. Am I correct to assume that? Please keep up the excellent content.
I agree with your technique , you have a good understanding of the forces at play. One of the techniques I like to use when welding flat panels with the TIG welder is hammer welding. It used to be fairly common back when we torch welded everything. Not sure if you're familiar with it but it's where you weld for an inch or two, then iron it out while it's still very hot, red hot if you can, then repeat the process down the panel. It takes practice to be really good at it but when you're done all the stresses are out and the welds are flat. It takes a small amount of clean up after that. I got my first TIG welder over 40 years ago and realized quickly how nice it was to weld sheet metal.
I am aware if what hammer welding is but not a fan of it as you have variations in your HAZ from your starts and stops. Much easier to correct as i demonstrated in the video
This made sense to me, I used to tig weld a lot of stainless stuff and always had better results with long welds then doing the short weld method jumping around thing, but never thought of it this way.
Preach brother! I tell so many people to quit mig welding sheet metal on restoration work. Tig is the only way. I try to do everything tig at my shop from chassis to body work.
Mike great video! Your right I was taught the old way of stacking tacks and small sections with a mig. I bought a tig and will try this method. Thanks!
Thank you that was an awesome video! I’ve always thought that was the best way to weld sheetmetal. I always have ground my welds down before planishing and I end up fighting the highs and lows, I will now try planishing before I put a grinder or da to the sheetmetal.
The root of the shrinkage, correct me if I am wrong, is that we get most metal in its rolled state. Clean sheet is cold rolled. So there are stresses in it. Once it’s heated, as you say, we allow the molecules to go back to their annealed state, which as you say is more compact. Hammering expands it or creates a push v a pull. Right? So it offsets the pull of the weld. Welds of course lay in hot and expanded. When they cool they shrink, of course. That can be used to pull things in too. I’m not as good as you are by any means! I have had some luck with ideas like you are putin’ down. Right on! Thanks for confirming!
it all plays into it. in actual matters, your adding metal in a molten state and as it cools it changes. thats really where the most warp comes from. if you could figure out how to weld without any heat then you essentially wouldn't warp at all. the filler metal is introduced to the base material in a liquid state (expanded at its most) and then as it cools it will get smaller. simple facts. he covers this but does a bit of mental gymnastics around that core principle thats been scientifically proven by industry experts for years. there's absolutely no way around this core principle
I see that you offer beginner metal shaping classes. I would be very interested in attending one. Part of the class is creating shapes with basic hand tools. As a diy guy I don't have access to all the high end equipment so using basic hand tools to achieve a satisfactory finish would be very beeificial for me. Thanks for the detailed content that you produce.
This works for mig too, sort of. I use .030 and the welder pretty hot and after tacking in place like you did run tacks with a 25% overlap waiting for them to just flash off from molten before setting the next one down, Its quick on and off the trigger move over a bit and repeat not stopping from edge to edge. Gets a more consistent heat zone but not as even as yours with tig. I started doing this to avoid pin holes I kept getting from jumping around. Certainly more finish work with mig but when its what you have you work with it. Love the channel, keep it up and you'll be at 150k subs in no time.
Videos are great! I’ve began to try tig welding! Trying to use the pulse features to avoid having to use the pedal while I’m welding! Thanks for this! Your craftsmanship is excellent!
I would recommend not using the pulse as it will become a crutch. just dial your amps back so your not on the pedal as much. Like is said in the video this was wide open at 60 amps other than the beginning and end
well presented information Mike, where I struggle is at the final finish stage. The line between hammering the metal enough to be straight or stretching it too much for me is difficult to gauge. the other one I have trouble with is when the panel is 90% there but full of dimples baffles me too. its as if metal has hardened and won't flatten out for me, the result is I hit it too hard and stretch it into an "oil can" effect and end up back where I started. once again well done, good presentation
this was great information, 180 degrees from what I would have done in the past... but makes perfect sense......I know I will be doing this in the future.......thank you so much.... Paul in Orlando
I picked up a TIG torch in 1974 to weld sheet metal and never looked back. I can do O/A and stick, but I am not a MIG guy….yet. I only did one big MIG job in 50 years.
To anyone welding. Wear gloves on both hands. Mike I ask you to weld like you did for one inch with no glove on your feed hand. After that smell your feed hand and you will smell burnt skin. Yes it does take some time to get used to feeding wire with a glove on and more when using small wire I used to weld every day and on average eighteen gauge steel,stainless and aluminum tubing. Protect yourself.
@@cornfieldcustomsI was going to mention the glove as well. You are exposing your left hand to a lot of UV. That could come back to haunt you latter in the form of cancer. If you are going to give advice you shouldn’t blow off well meant advice so easily.
I've felt that flux core is a great option for sheet metal work as the shielding is there even when tacking. It has it's quirks, you should only pull or go perpendicular to the work, pushing causes the flux to contaminate the weld. With flux core you can weld outside in the wind as well if necessary.
Wow great video, I really appreciate you doing these. I try to do good work , but I was at a shop that was more about the fastest one is the best. So I got scolded while the cave and pave guys got the atta boy and Pat on the back. I quit because of those reasons. I still want to get into quality work . So your videos are very helpful and inspiring thank you
Nice video. I run into problems when it's impossible to have access for planishing. I sure would like to have access to a power hammer. That tool is about the same size as my shop. LOL. Best wishes.
when I run into not having access to the back of a panel say on a quarter panel, I will remove the entire panel at factory seams, do the repair then re install the entire panel.
Its also quicker to weld all at once you can space them out can but you have to planish them in between which is just a pain and time consuming and you still get little waves anyway
At the moment I use a MIG machine as… that’s all I have etc…. I did two restoration courses with a company that restores and builds Jaguar XK150’s it was my first experience of working metal… They had MIG machines there …they mentioned them…but only taught TIG welding whilst working panels. So that where I started. Welding panels requires the right fitment mention here… we didn’t use filler rod at all. Not sure if that was the next step forwards but ‘Bruce’ the guy who taught us(along with his late father) was an advocate of tight fitment. His father (a coach build since the late 40’s) was a wizard with the hammers and their skills together were quite frankly awe inspiring! I must admit I was out of my depth compared to some other students(some have been in metal shaping for several years professionally) which was obvious from their ability to achieve stuff much quicker than I. As expensive as my two weeks were on those two course(back to back) the amount of knowledge gained was well worth it. I really need to get back into TIG.
I guess that you went to Contour Autocraft in the UK. I went there about 10 years ago and met Bruce and his father. Sad to hear that the father had died. Mike in Germany
I find also that what everyone fails to explain is that when you are welding, no matter what the process, is that when you are adding any kind of hot filler metal, when it cools it will shrink causing more distortion. Just keep that in mind. And yes Tig is the absolute best for the least amount of warpage, also the welders experience.
Hi thank you for the video it was very helpful. One thing I am curious to see as I am new to Tig ,is what the back of a weld like this should look like . Thank you
Great video Mike, thank you for sharing. The mental model I have of how heat causes shrinkage (aka warping) is that the localized heat causes the area to expand, pressing against the cooler surround metal. The shrinkage is then an effect not unlike what happens when you shrink metal with mechanical methods like jaw Shrinker or thumbnail dies. I don’t know if that is scientifically correct, but it seems to be a useful mental model for me, and your explanation of why you weld continuously fits nicely with it. Each short, isolated stitch weld is actually set up to maximize the shrinkage because it’s localized heat surrounded on all sides by cooler metal. Does that track with your thinking?
What your talking about is really an old school method of hammer welding which we used to do with the oxy welder. Its just that the tig while operating similar to an oxy it produces less heat and thus warpage. The reason hammer welding isnt done with a mig welder is because a mig weld is fairly high tensile which resists flattening from a hammer and dolly and an oxy weld and a tig weld are softer welds and thus more malleable and more suited to hammer welding. The difference between tig and oxy hammer welding is you can only do an inch is so at a time with oxy. Tig is clearly much better because welding it all in one go is a time saver.
it is nothing like hammer welding. Like you said its done with OXY/ fuel, done a few inches at a time and done when the weld is still hot. This process is literally just welding and correcting the warp after the fact
@@cornfieldcustoms Your saying we correct the warp. We correct the warp by stretching the weld. All the hammer welding ive done involves stretching out a cooled and shrunken weld. Thats also what i do when i use the tig in the manner you have done here. The only reason we need to stop every inch or so with oxy is because it is so dam hot that the heat tranfers way beyond the weld.
Many home garage TIG machines can't do continuous welds over 2 to 3 minutes, as they overheat and shut down, or you burn the power supplies up. Yours is an industrial welder, and probably has a powerful cooling on the power supply. That's one thing home users can do though, is make a cooling adapter to their rig.
Most home machines can run 60 amps for at least 10 mins. I didnt always have an industrial grade machine. Even a harbor freight air cooled tig can do 10 mins at that amp range.
I did the Mig tack method for 10 yrs. Then I learned Tig, and this method. This is better by far. However… some restorers are not working to this level. They are doing part restoration, welding up sections in cars fitting new metal next to sections that still have paint, underseal, and light rust on. For those people, Mig is more practical. Its way more forgiving and needs less cleanliness and good fit up. Personally, once I learned Tig welding, it opened my eyes. I realised that I didn’t want to work on part restorations anymore, and opted for full bare metal or nothing at all.
Thats where i have a problem with the term "restore" or "restoration" because a lot of restorations are poor quality underneath and not restored to original. I feel the only proper way to restore anything i stripped completely bare and rebuilt completely to as off the factory line. I prefer to make stuff not excuses to why i am not doing it a certain way
Can you actually run a full weld with MIG on thin sheet without blowing through? I can't with mine, I've just stuck with tacking, let it cool and repeat. My MIG isn't the cheapest machine out there but it's not the most expensive/high end either.
@@cornfieldcustoms Well it's been used to patch up vehicle bodywork for example for years over here in the UK. Back in the 80's many a new sill panels were welded on, I never saw a TIG welder being used for that.
I like your process, it just makes sense. Would not an a chunk of aluminum used as a heat sink on the underside of the weld path also help deter the warping?? Just a thought.
Awesome explanation, I think Mig is still better for panels you don't have any rear access to. Yes not everyone is going to remove the panels off the car to fix, and mig can do a very good job at fixing sheet metal without noticeable distortion (and no hammer and dolly work). Mig sucks because the welds are hard, but they can be done well and the job comes out nice.
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Man, this channel is going to be one of the most popular metal fabrication spots on RUclips some day. I'm really glad Karl Fisher mentioned you on his channel as someone he follows. I can sure see why he reccomended you; Stellar content!
Thank you, I sure hope the channel continues to grow. That will allow me to cover a lot more material with more detail
nailed it
I STARTED DOING THAT IN THE GOOD OLD GAS WELDING DAYS. IT WORKED THEN AND IT WORKS EVEN BETTER NOW. I JUST COULD NOT EXPLANE IT LIKE YOU DID. WELL DONE SON !
Thanks
I like how he gets straight to the point and gets right into it.
Thanks
I recently started using this technique and it works. I've done the tack method for years and this process is really the way to go. Thanks for making these videos Mike.
Thanks for watching. Glad its working out for you
Haven’t used my new tig yet. Got it for learning to do my body patch panels. Will do some practicing soon. Yours is the first I’ve seen to do this. Will try that too. Thanks. Great explanation.
Started out welding sheet metal 50 years ago. Man, I wish I had seen this back then. These days I'm a CWI. Your right, It's all about consistent heat input. Wish I could have seen the back side, but it looks really good. Thanks for the post, subscribed.
I couldn't tell if it was ground before hammer and dolly, Planishing, or not. Yes I would like to have seen the rear also. Great video. Thanks
Oh, the video editing was good. You got to the point fast enough to keep people engaged AND you didn’t cut out needed content. IMHO.
If "professional" nickels and dimes welders did a straight through weld like you did..... I wonder how well they'd do.
Beautiful heat pattern.... like a machine did it.
After watching your process and justification for doing so, I wonder about the guys that don't have the tools you do.
Is the backyard welder/car dude better off with just slowly welding spots, or stitches? I love watching you do what you do, but some guys just have a welder, grinder, hammer and dolly.
I have two of those, and a welder isn't one of them. 😁
....asking for a friend. 😉
Once again, that weld was beautiful.
I was trained as a welder in Job Corp.
First class was torch welding...
Oxy/acetylene
Welding, is almost exactly like tig welding.
Just a different heat source.
We had to certify in gas welding before moving on to arc.
Chapped my hide at the time
Glad I had that training now.
Great looking work man .
Dimes are for dumb ass es
Mike - very well done, and well explained!
Thanks ron, I am humbled by your continued support
4:18
Lower amps is likely a longer period of time where heat is applied as well- which actually is more heat travel and more heat deformation in my somewhat little experience.
Best explanation of weld/warp I've ever heard. Thank you !
Glad it was helpful!
I agree with your method. When I was a sheet metal model maker apprentice back in the 1970's, that is how we were taught. I have arc, mig and tig welders in my shop today, and I rarely roll out my mig welder.I just don't care for it. The control on the tig process is so good you can control warpage much more than mig. This was a really good video, thank you.
Love the content. You are spot on about TIG welding. Hard to beat a Miller syncrowave TIG welder. I use the same welder at work but I use the TIG button on the torch handle instead of a foot pedal. I feel more stable with both feet on the floor and still have all the control at my finger tip. Great point that nobody sees a pretty weld once it is finished out. Your heat control is great, It is easy to set the heat but you have to be able to keep a consistent speed. Your fit up skills are obvious seeing such a consistent heat zone. All the pieces coming together, quality parts, fit up, weld preparation, excellent finished panel. Frank
Thanks, i prefer the pedal most of the time, i use a thumb wheel when i tight spots such as roof bars of a roll cage in the car.
Hi Mike, I love the channel and thank you for sharing your knowledge. I I totally understand why you are using the power hammer for production speed, but would it be possible for you to also include a small demonstration on how to complete some of these tasks with hand tools as well in your videos please? Thanks.
Best & most logical/practical explanation of the atomic structural reactions of metallic alloys when heat is applied.
Thanks for watching
I really like how you explain and show the way you do the metal work. Just learning. Thank you and keep the great jobs.
Thanks for watching
This is a really, really good explanation of what you're doing. It all makes logical sense, and you can't argue with the results.
Thanks
Thank you for this video. I too prefer TIG welding sheet metal. I spent hours chasing the warpage. Learned of this technique from Christian Sosa, I have since become a true believer. Thanks again!
Yep tig is the way to go
Mike hands down this is the best no nonsense video on welding sheet! I always did it jumping around till I caught some of your stuff on Instagram and started running it continuous with .030 rod. DAY and NIGHT difference. Thank you for all you share on here. Your straight to it approach and your commitment to giving all the details make every one of your videos worth well beyond the time spent watching them.
Thanks man, glad it helped make things better on your end. I appreciate the feedback
Of all the metal working videos I watch, your process makes the most sense, and is explained in a way that is easily understood, I'm hooked!
I appreciate you watching!
Mr. Marks at House of Pain has been helping me with my metal shaping. Everything is GTAW or Oxy-fuel welded. He has me tack a panel up, hammer the tacks then weld in long sections. Since I rarely do long straight welds it isn't as easy and straightforward as your panel. But, like you show, it's about the heat affected zone and the physics involved. You can make them work for/with you or you can fight them! Nice video.
Mike your awsome ,there was hardly amy warping what so ever ,guess im saving for a tig welder now lol thanks for the great video
Thanks, you wont regret the upgrade
The man of infinite patience.
Just as you indicated here, I was taught to TIG panels, close fit-up, tack every inch or so. then continues TIG weld the seam. Always works, just need to develop the skills.
Yep just practice and striving to do better with each part
You can certainly do the job.
I’d like to learn more of you skill techniques to learn more. From welding to hammering properly.
What I’ve learnt here is 14:48 you can do the job.
Thanks for watching
Going to have to try this out. Also the videos and editing is coming along leaps and bounds! Keep it up!
Awesome! Thank you!
Hammering the weld back into its self brings up the shrink . WOW thanks for sharing .
You’re welcome, glad you like it!
Excellent stuff, always learn something new from your videos!
Awesome, thank you!
Well explained, you got that right , I have been using end teaching this method for many Years it works every time . .
Thanks for watching
Another awesome and informative video. Thanks for putting these out.
Thanks for watching
Great video! A lot of logic, well edited, well done, your a great Craftsman, your Craftsmanship is outstanding!! You got me hooked line and sinker!!
Thanks 👍
You are a great teacher. Thank You for sharing your knowledge it’s really appreciated.
Thanks for watching
Great educational content. Your teaching is very well done and your editing is very professional. I see a lot of other channels referencing your quality of work and content. Keep up the great content.
Thank you very much!
Thank you for taking the time to share your viewpoint. Much appreciated!
Thanks for watching
Yup, I do the same thing with 16ga trailer fenders on mig but once you start you gotta drop the hammer keep truckin until the end, i still get alittle rush trying to out pace the burn through 😂, great content and like everyone said straight and to the point 👍🏼
Thanks for watching
After seeing this video, I need to practice and work on learning to tig weld. Superb detail, explanation of the method behind the theory behind the and video!
Like process of welding cast iron. I like temperature control pre heat to cooling. Everyone might do it different. Thanks
Thank you for being honest about the reality of working metal. None of this is perfect. It’s the finesse that makes it a finished product.
I like the new video format Mike.
And you're welding like what I do on my panels.
Ive always heard you say this and I’ve seen it first hand on low crown panels especially. You can visibly see the inconsistent distortion from starting/stoping in the middle of the panel. You’ll see a very consistent slightly raised area from the weld then a little pucker right where the start or stop occurred.
Yep, you saw it first hand to see the difference in technique
I would submit that when all we had was oxyacetylene welding there was a greater chance of warpage of sheet metal and the need for tacking and hammering metal was necessary, But, with the Tig welding process we can concentrate an amount of heat in a smaller area as shown by the heat strip of about one inch. So, we have better technology available to people in today's world than before when all we had was oxyacetylene and stick welding along with a gas cutting torch to do our work. This was a good technical presentation. And your explanation was spot on.
LOVE SEEING SHEETMETAL SHAPING & WELDING, THANKS MIKE
Thanks for watching
Great episode! Video content and production is A+. A follow-up of grind, massage and finish would be great. It is obvious that you have spent years dedicated to your craft. Thank you so much for sharing your hard earned wisdom.
Thanks for watching
Thank you brother, I really do appreciate you tacking this time to explain things the way you do. Tight work 👍
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!
@ I’m really learning a lot from you bro, I like your methodical approach to things. 👍🏻
In training to weld it was shown we have filler on hand but progress fusing the sheet edges together with filler only to add material reducing flame effect on the parent metal. I accept your style as a better method, just the way you tell & show ! Being a mere human myself, I try to use a backing strip of panel steel; as a heat sink to compensate for my fallible application.
The heat sink is not helping you at all. it may be hurting you. The heat sink pull the heat out meaning you need to run more amps to get good penetration. more amps means larger HAZ.
Excellent video Mike. I’m sure you are using a zero gap fit up, but didn’t catch that in the video. Am I correct to assume that? Please keep up the excellent content.
@@cornfieldcustoms fair call. I'll have a go at making a series of repairs in that style you show here 👍
I agree with your technique , you have a good understanding of the forces at play. One of the techniques I like to use when welding flat panels with the TIG welder is hammer welding. It used to be fairly common back when we torch welded everything. Not sure if you're familiar with it but it's where you weld for an inch or two, then iron it out while it's still very hot, red hot if you can, then repeat the process down the panel. It takes practice to be really good at it but when you're done all the stresses are out and the welds are flat. It takes a small amount of clean up after that. I got my first TIG welder over 40 years ago and realized quickly how nice it was to weld sheet metal.
I am aware if what hammer welding is but not a fan of it as you have variations in your HAZ from your starts and stops. Much easier to correct as i demonstrated in the video
This made sense to me, I used to tig weld a lot of stainless stuff and always had better results with long welds then doing the short weld method jumping around thing, but never thought of it this way.
Preach brother! I tell so many people to quit mig welding sheet metal on restoration work. Tig is the only way. I try to do everything tig at my shop from chassis to body work.
Right on, people dont want to hear it. because mig is so cheap and easy they think its the best.
Mike great video! Your right I was taught the old way of stacking tacks and small sections with a mig. I bought a tig and will try this method. Thanks!
I think you will be happy with the results of switching to the TIG
I like how you explained everything in detail step by step 👍
Another great video ... learned a lot ... love the projects ...
Thanks, glad it was helpful
Thank you that was an awesome video! I’ve always thought that was the best way to weld sheetmetal. I always have ground my welds down before planishing and I end up fighting the highs and lows, I will now try planishing before I put a grinder or da to the sheetmetal.
The root of the shrinkage, correct me if I am wrong, is that we get most metal in its rolled state. Clean sheet is cold rolled. So there are stresses in it.
Once it’s heated, as you say, we allow the molecules to go back to their annealed state, which as you say is more compact.
Hammering expands it or creates a push v a pull. Right? So it offsets the pull of the weld.
Welds of course lay in hot and expanded. When they cool they shrink, of course. That can be used to pull things in too.
I’m not as good as you are by any means! I have had some luck with ideas like you are putin’ down. Right on! Thanks for confirming!
it all plays into it. in actual matters, your adding metal in a molten state and as it cools it changes. thats really where the most warp comes from. if you could figure out how to weld without any heat then you essentially wouldn't warp at all. the filler metal is introduced to the base material in a liquid state (expanded at its most) and then as it cools it will get smaller. simple facts. he covers this but does a bit of mental gymnastics around that core principle thats been scientifically proven by industry experts for years. there's absolutely no way around this core principle
I see that you offer beginner metal shaping classes. I would be very interested in attending one. Part of the class is creating shapes with basic hand tools. As a diy guy I don't have access to all the high end equipment so using basic hand tools to achieve a satisfactory finish would be very beeificial for me. Thanks for the detailed content that you produce.
Love your channel and watching your skills! I have learned a lot and look forward to every new video!!
Fantastic job on demonstrating and explaining this process. I hope to be trying it out soon.
Thanks for watching
This works for mig too, sort of. I use .030 and the welder pretty hot and after tacking in place like you did run tacks with a 25% overlap waiting for them to just flash off from molten before setting the next one down, Its quick on and off the trigger move over a bit and repeat not stopping from edge to edge. Gets a more consistent heat zone but not as even as yours with tig. I started doing this to avoid pin holes I kept getting from jumping around. Certainly more finish work with mig but when its what you have you work with it. Love the channel, keep it up and you'll be at 150k subs in no time.
Videos are great! I’ve began to try tig welding! Trying to use the pulse features to avoid having to use the pedal while I’m welding! Thanks for this! Your craftsmanship is excellent!
I would recommend not using the pulse as it will become a crutch. just dial your amps back so your not on the pedal as much. Like is said in the video this was wide open at 60 amps other than the beginning and end
@@cornfieldcustoms looks like I have some practice ahead of me!
well presented information Mike, where I struggle is at the final finish stage. The line between hammering the metal enough to be straight or stretching it too much for me is difficult to gauge.
the other one I have trouble with is when the panel is 90% there but full of dimples baffles me too. its as if metal has hardened and won't flatten out for me, the result is I hit it too hard and stretch it into an "oil can" effect and end up back where I started.
once again well done, good presentation
this was great information, 180 degrees from what I would have done in the past...
but makes perfect sense......I know I will be doing this in the future.......thank you so much....
Paul in Orlando
Glad it was helpful!
I am looking forward to applying this technique when I go todo sheet metal work on my 51ford.
Awesome. let us know how it turns out
100% agree ! Been doing it that way since way back when using oxy acetylene for welding
Another great lesson, thank you Mike.
Glad you liked it!
i did not dare to say that loud !
thanks to you.
Thanks for watching
I picked up a TIG torch in 1974 to weld sheet metal and never looked back. I can do O/A and stick, but I am not a MIG guy….yet. I only did one big MIG job in 50 years.
Just found your channel, great content and really looking forward researching your previous videos, keep it coming!
Thanks for checking us out!
Great info Mike, keep them coming.
Thanks i will do my best
Thanks, I really appreciate the info, I am trying to improve all the time and your videos really help
Thanks, constant improvement is what the craft is all about
Hey Mike nice work as always going to have to try that. I am surprised that there aren't a lot of no way comments for the one pass.
To anyone welding. Wear gloves on both hands. Mike I ask you to weld like you did for one inch with no glove on your feed hand. After that smell your feed hand and you will smell burnt skin. Yes it does take some time to get used to feeding wire with a glove on and more when using small wire I used to weld every day and on average eighteen gauge steel,stainless and aluminum tubing. Protect yourself.
I weld all the time with gloves, and with out or one glove just depends. I will do me but thanks for the feedback
@@cornfieldcustomsI was going to mention the glove as well. You are exposing your left hand to a lot of UV. That could come back to haunt you latter in the form of cancer. If you are going to give advice you shouldn’t blow off well meant advice so easily.
@@TricksterJ97 I am aware of the risk, i choose to ignore it.
perfect presentation. If we put one inch thick 4 inch width 15 inch long aluminium beneath welding could we minimise local warping.
@@Dr.CandanEsin stop trying to come up with other solutions and just trust the process.
I've felt that flux core is a great option for sheet metal work as the shielding is there even when tacking. It has it's quirks, you should only pull or go perpendicular to the work, pushing causes the flux to contaminate the weld.
With flux core you can weld outside in the wind as well if necessary.
@@murmenaattori6 you will never get a seamless repair with flux core
Excellent video, Mike.
Wow great video, I really appreciate you doing these. I try to do good work , but I was at a shop that was more about the fastest one is the best. So I got scolded while the cave and pave guys got the atta boy and Pat on the back. I quit because of those reasons. I still want to get into quality work . So your videos are very helpful and inspiring thank you
Yea to many people are not quality driven any more, its instant gratification and take the money and run
For those of us that only have a MIG would this technique still apply?
no this is tig or oxy fuel only. Ditch the mig for sheet metal
Thanks Mike! This is great information.
Thanks for watching
Nice video. I run into problems when it's impossible to have access for planishing. I sure would like to have access to a power hammer. That tool is about the same size as my shop. LOL. Best wishes.
when I run into not having access to the back of a panel say on a quarter panel, I will remove the entire panel at factory seams, do the repair then re install the entire panel.
What a good teacher, thank you
Thanks for watching.
Excellent video! Now I have to start practicing with my rig!
Its also quicker to weld all at once you can space them out can but you have to planish them in between which is just a pain and time consuming and you still get little waves anyway
Yep the smaller warps from stitching are brutal
At the moment I use a MIG machine as… that’s all I have etc…. I did two restoration courses with a company that restores and builds Jaguar XK150’s it was my first experience of working metal… They had MIG machines there …they mentioned them…but only taught TIG welding whilst working panels. So that where I started. Welding panels requires the right fitment mention here… we didn’t use filler rod at all. Not sure if that was the next step forwards but ‘Bruce’ the guy who taught us(along with his late father) was an advocate of tight fitment. His father (a coach build since the late 40’s) was a wizard with the hammers and their skills together were quite frankly awe inspiring! I must admit I was out of my depth compared to some other students(some have been in metal shaping for several years professionally) which was obvious from their ability to achieve stuff much quicker than I. As expensive as my two weeks were on those two course(back to back) the amount of knowledge gained was well worth it. I really need to get back into TIG.
I guess that you went to Contour Autocraft in the UK. I went there about 10 years ago and met Bruce and his father. Sad to hear that the father had died. Mike in Germany
I find also that what everyone fails to explain is that when you are welding, no matter what the process, is that when you are adding any kind of hot filler metal, when it cools it will shrink causing more distortion. Just keep that in mind. And yes Tig is the absolute best for the least amount of warpage, also the welders experience.
I clearly state in this video that the distortion in a panel after welding is due to cooling of the weld
Finally someone said it! Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Hi thank you for the video it was very helpful. One thing I am curious to see as I am new to Tig ,is what the back of a weld like this should look like .
Thank you
The back should just have at least 100% if not more penetration. so you know the seam is solid
Master class in panel fabrication as usual. I strive to be that good. Just not sure I have enough years left lol.
Thanks, there is always time to grow
@@cornfieldcustoms Right on! I’m working at it.
Great video and thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching
Great video Mike, thank you for sharing. The mental model I have of how heat causes shrinkage (aka warping) is that the localized heat causes the area to expand, pressing against the cooler surround metal. The shrinkage is then an effect not unlike what happens when you shrink metal with mechanical methods like jaw Shrinker or thumbnail dies. I don’t know if that is scientifically correct, but it seems to be a useful mental model for me, and your explanation of why you weld continuously fits nicely with it. Each short, isolated stitch weld is actually set up to maximize the shrinkage because it’s localized heat surrounded on all sides by cooler metal. Does that track with your thinking?
What your talking about is really an old school method of hammer welding which we used to do with the oxy welder. Its just that the tig while operating similar to an oxy it produces less heat and thus warpage. The reason hammer welding isnt done with a mig welder is because a mig weld is fairly high tensile which resists flattening from a hammer and dolly and an oxy weld and a tig weld are softer welds and thus more malleable and more suited to hammer welding. The difference between tig and oxy hammer welding is you can only do an inch is so at a time with oxy. Tig is clearly much better because welding it all in one go is a time saver.
it is nothing like hammer welding. Like you said its done with OXY/ fuel, done a few inches at a time and done when the weld is still hot. This process is literally just welding and correcting the warp after the fact
@@cornfieldcustoms Your saying we correct the warp. We correct the warp by stretching the weld. All the hammer welding ive done involves stretching out a cooled and shrunken weld. Thats also what i do when i use the tig in the manner you have done here. The only reason we need to stop every inch or so with oxy is because it is so dam hot that the heat tranfers way beyond the weld.
Good video and nice welder. Ive got one of the dialarc hf machines.
Thanks 👍
Awesome demonstration 👏👏👏
Thank you
A very well explained video! Thank you.
Thanks for watching
Agreed! TIG is far superior to MIG in almost all situations BUT, it take a lot more skill in both the fit up and the actual welding.
just takes time and effort to get the skill needed
Many home garage TIG machines can't do continuous welds over 2 to 3 minutes, as they overheat and shut down, or you burn the power supplies up. Yours is an industrial welder, and probably has a powerful cooling on the power supply. That's one thing home users can do though, is make a cooling adapter to their rig.
Most home machines can run 60 amps for at least 10 mins. I didnt always have an industrial grade machine. Even a harbor freight air cooled tig can do 10 mins at that amp range.
@@cornfieldcustoms Yes, my numbers seem to be for about double the amps you used. Thanks.
I did the Mig tack method for 10 yrs. Then I learned Tig, and this method. This is better by far.
However… some restorers are not working to this level. They are doing part restoration, welding up sections in cars fitting new metal next to sections that still have paint, underseal, and light rust on. For those people, Mig is more practical. Its way more forgiving and needs less cleanliness and good fit up.
Personally, once I learned Tig welding, it opened my eyes. I realised that I didn’t want to work on part restorations anymore, and opted for full bare metal or nothing at all.
Thats where i have a problem with the term "restore" or "restoration" because a lot of restorations are poor quality underneath and not restored to original. I feel the only proper way to restore anything i stripped completely bare and rebuilt completely to as off the factory line. I prefer to make stuff not excuses to why i am not doing it a certain way
Can you actually run a full weld with MIG on thin sheet without blowing through?
I can't with mine, I've just stuck with tacking, let it cool and repeat. My MIG isn't the cheapest machine out there but it's not the most expensive/high end either.
@@steveclark.. mig just makes a mess of sheet metal
@@cornfieldcustoms Well it's been used to patch up vehicle bodywork for example for years over here in the UK.
Back in the 80's many a new sill panels were welded on, I never saw a TIG welder being used for that.
Not going to argue about it. There is a reason why top builders dont mig weld stuff, especially sheet metal.
I like your process, it just makes sense. Would not an a chunk of aluminum used as a heat sink on the underside of the weld path also help deter the warping?? Just a thought.
I wont do anything. it will draw the heat out so you have to bump the amps up to get the penetration. Its better to just weld it normal and correct it
You are amazing ❤ please continue your show and explain
thanks for watching and the kind words, but i am far from amazing
The faders you travel you see more and better
Which I learned from you many years ago
This is really neat!! I’ll have to give this a try 👍
Let us know how it turns out
I wonder if there's a discussion to be had around lateral versus longitudinal shrinkage; ie across the seam versus down the length of the seam?
That was some serious detail. Thanks
Very helpful and interesting video thanks Mike.
Thanks for watching
Guess i`ll be hitting the scrap pile and start practicing the long weld. Have a roof insert to do soon
get out there and give er hell
Great welding technique!!!
Thanks 👍
Awesome explanation, I think Mig is still better for panels you don't have any rear access to. Yes not everyone is going to remove the panels off the car to fix, and mig can do a very good job at fixing sheet metal without noticeable distortion (and no hammer and dolly work). Mig sucks because the welds are hard, but they can be done well and the job comes out nice.
No the mig is not better in sheet metal period. You will never comvince me other wise. Especially since i used to MIG weld
Sheet metal.