THE OTHERS 4K UHD REVIEW - No HDR so is it worth it?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2023
- Review to the 4K UHD Blu-ray from Studio Canal of the 2001 haunted house spooker The Others starring Nicole Kidman and Christopher Ecclestone. A very good film that has a good atmosphere sure to give most people a bit of a scare or a jump or two.
Image aspect ratio is 1.85:1 and sound has been re-worked into Dolby Atmos. It is now more effective than ever. There is an option via the menu for DTS-HD 5.1 but I found that through my THX 5.1 the Dolby Atmos downcoded better than the DTS.
The Others is predominantly a dark, moody film and as a result of the low light there is film grain evident throughout but it is not overly coarse and does suit the overall rustic feel of the film.
'Film Is Fabulous!' is an all day film event at The Phoenix Cinema & Art Centre in Leicester on 29th October 2023 which will have panel discussions about film and television on film and how best to save and preserve these with a particular emphasis on those only existing in private collections, also film shows on the huge Screen 1 from both 35mm and Super 8 in between the panel discussions, two dealer rooms selling vast quantities of film and equipment, and finally, the great film history documentary 'Splice Here: A Projected Odyssey' which concludes the day on the big screen. This will be one of the few opportunities to see this impressive work at a cinema in the UK. All this for just £12.50. For full details and to purchase tickets go to www.filmisfabulous.org.uk.
MyFireVideos has uploaded an exceptional and extensive review of The Others (wish spoilers) here: • The Others 4K Review -... 
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I have been looking forward to this movie being released in 4K HDR for several years. I found out recently that is does not have HDR!! I reluctantly watched it last night on my 100-inch silver screen with 7.2.4 surround sound... and was VERY impressed! The remastered 4K without HDR actually looked fantastic. - Greetings from Rhode Island, USA.
That's two of us who appreciate the 4K then which surprised me because I had convinced myself over the past six years that 4K without HDR would be a waste of time. Now then, perhaps you should do a review from your home cinema too. After all, I'd not only be interested in your thoughts but it would be a good excuse to see you near 8 foot wide screen and setup! John.
The transfer is Director approved. It appears when filming, he used natural light and wanted to ensure it came across as he intended. So that's why it doesn't have it. As somebody said the better 4k colour palette helps and a good encode. Somebody should sent Paramount a copy as they need to correct their Plane's Trains and Automobiles patchy work.
That's good information. Thank you. As for Planes, Trains & Automobiles it probably needs to be checked against a 35mm master print and then you'd see why it's been mastered for home video release in the way that it has been. No two films look entirely alike and it may have just been a bloody awful shoot combined with coarse grain film stock that simply isn't suitable for cine transfer for home viewing on tiny televisions. There could be a whole load of reasons for its poor appearance but I haven't seen it so I'm only guessing.
John.
As much as I would love to see the enhanced gray scale and natural lighting in this one via HDR, I am very excited for a new 4K scan, which is probably at 16-bit. The added detail should be very impressive versus the DVD version!
It's certainly better than the Blu-ray Ryan. I was cheesed off when it started and didn't have HDR but by the end of the evening I was enthused. John.
Good evening John. HDR isn’t always needed and some DP’s & Director’s are not keen either. Guess it all depends of the creative intent of those who made the film and if it helps or hinders is their choice.
Glad to hear DMU are helping with your show. I got my degree there, so always nice to hear they’re doing cool things.
I personally didn’t like 65. The story, acting and all the strange dinosaurs just amounted to a huge mess of a film for me.
Being an 80s kid, Lost Boys hits my sweet spot for cheese and nostalgia and the wife and I watch it every year. I have to admit, knowing the film quite well over the years of watching it on VHS, DVD, Blu-ray & now UHD the 4K is leaps and bounds the best way to watch the film. Hopefully you’ll enjoy it, just go into it knowing it’s not a serious film :D
It’s strange that Lost Boys came out the same year as Near Dark (which is a darker and in some eyes better vampire film) yet Lost Boys won out at the box office, I’m guessing due to the teen heartthrob nature of the cast.
Morning Martin. I've been told on here that the director approved this home video release on 4K so it does appear that he didn't want HDR potentially revealing detail in the black areas of the frame.
Professors Steve Chibnall and Justin Smith are the two film professors who have sorted all this out for Film Is Fabulous! along with my colleague in Leicester. It's going to be a unique event as we've never done a BFCC that is predominantly people from the film industry and the archive/preservation industry up on stage discussing the importance of film in private collections before. This isn't a BFCC but that's its origin and it's all come about because of this channel. Looks like we're going to be pulling a load of lost television and movies back into the public domain and some of the titles are set to cause quite a splash.
I'll be prepared for a sort of tongue-in-cheek (fang-in-mouth!) vampire film with The Lost Boys. I had every other title in that 3 for £10 offer but I can't resist a bargain like that. Getting Psycho for a tenner was too good an opportunity to miss... and a replacement copy for my knackered copy of The Shining.
John.
I remember The Others having a brilliant sound effect on the R1 DVD I have. Part way though there's a thud from upstairs in the house that actually sounded like it had come through my ceiling from the loft and that was through my 5.1 system years ago. Atmos before Atmos.
It's still the same today. Even though I knew these sound effects were coming to give us a bit of a jump they still worked. I think the Dolby Atmos (even though we're 5.1) gave the effects even more oomph though. John.
Not sure what I found more astonishing - that haven’t watched The Lost Boys yet or your praise of 65 - blimey! 😮 great video as always 👍🏻
I lost interest in horror movies in my early twenties really because I'd watched so many and nothing scared me any longer. I saw most of them as plain silly as a result... but then there are sometimes films that come along such as The Others. I have seen quite a few of the horrors that I avoided down the years in more recent years but I do still find most of them silly. One that gets a lot of praise is 'It Follows' but yet again I found it silly. I think I may need help or therapy!
John.
Hi John! Great review! Just did the blu ray with kids for our October films. Perhaps we may have a live stream with T at Double Bill looking back at all our Halloween choices which could be fun. This one just out here at 65cdn on Amazon a mile above my limit but at the 50 percent off in November based on your work on it here I am probably gonna add it. Its just one of those Ghost stories I really love. You wet my appetite for 65 too lololo Have a great Sunday evening over there and Cheers !!! D!!
65 was a genuine surprise Dave but I bought it based on a couple of other reviewers on here. I probably wouldn't have come across it if it hadn't been for them. The Others annoyed me when I first put it on to find no HDR but in the end how wrong I was. Who cares when a video looks just like a 35mm film print? The grain may be a little too coarse in places but overall it's pretty fine and suits the atmosphere if the film. John.
In my opinion, the last genuinely suspenseful ghost story ever made. An adaptation of the late Victorian novella _The Turn of the Screw_ by Henry James, it stays true to its 19th century source material while bringing the setting forward to WW2. Grace reading from Genesis as the camera pans over candle-lit illustrations is among the best introductory sequences ever put to film. The scene where she goes to face the intruders, ascending the stairs while clutching her rosary, whispering the Lord's prayer, is magnificent. You can really feel her terror. _They_ are the ghosts, trapped in the very limbo she had warned her children about. I have always been impressed by how this film manages to do so much with so little. I can't believe the director was only 28, _and_ he scored the film as well. Outstanding.
That's a very good summary Arnold. Thank you. John.
The director was head hunted by Tom Cruise because he loved his previous film, Open Your Eyes so much. He not only bought the remake rights, and made it as Vanilla Sky, but offered to produce whatever the director wanted to do next. The Others is the result of that, and as a bonus Tom's then wife Nicole lend her Star Power to it.
@@davidjames579 I didn't know that David, thank you. John.
Great video as always john, I will have to get The Others as that is actually being released here, just a bit off topic but our IMAX cinema in Sydney finally opened, I will have to get down there and check it out
I hope the IMAX is re-opening with OPPENHEIMER in 15/70 Paul. I don't think it's the best of the Nolan IMAX films but it's still mightily impressive. Whatever they put on that huge screen have a great time. John.
Aahhh... another movie i have not seen in ages. But this is one of my favourite horror/thriller/dramas. Just perfect in almost every way possible. And thanks for reminding me that i need to upgrade this movie😊 Good review as usual there John.
It proved to be a good example for me to learn from because it turned out that HDR is not always the only thing that gives 4K releases superiority over Blu-ray. A real surprise and I'm rather pleased to have been wrong. I hope you like the new 4K of The Others as much as I doMorten. John.
Nice work John..... Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for commenting Roy. John.
Hi John, I think the colours may still be superior on the 4K due to the 4K disc using a superior colour gamut (Rec.2020 I believe) rather than blu-rays Rec.709 which would explain the differences even without HDR being applied.
Looking forward to the Lost Boys review! I haven’t checked out the new disc but caught a screening of the 4k remaster at cineworld on a large scope screen and it was marvellous.
I was thinking along the same lines so I think you've confirmed it. It's surprising how much better the 4K is though because up to this point I had convinced myself that 4K without HDR would be a waste of time. Lesson learned! John.
Nope. It uses SDR (rec.709). No WCG and no HDR which is kind of dumbstriking me because WCG and HDR are the tools that would bring "neutral lighting" to the next level for the producer who reportedly wanted to stick with neutral lighting and coloring. The thing that actually may help with the perceived betterness is the 10 bit grading instead of 8 bit.
The thing that's new is the new 4k transfer and polishing. That's about it and the reason why one adn perceive it as improved over bluray.
@@moviecollector5920 In my opinion 4k without HDR and WCG (in fact this version has rec709 instead of WCG rec2020) is mostly waste of time. I wish every movie maximally utilizes HDR and WCG with intended behavior (WCG and HDR open up and bring up the natural lighting and proper coloring compared to crushed and compressed 709 coloring as well as HDR which brings depth to the image by having proper and not compressed light and dark differences etc...).
@@sermerlin1 ah, I see. Thanks for the correction. I assumed that the 4K codec would naturally use the REC.2020 gamut even without the use of HDR.
@@jbird_inc yeah... it's just weird to me not to use either as they both combined bring more true to life neutral or natural light and coloring...
But at least they used 10 bit color grading which helps improve color banding and make it all look cleaner.
Thank you, John! I wanted to see it since the date it came out, but somebody spoiled me the ending. I will watch it anyway. Perhaps now is the proper time!
Knowing the ending won't make any difference Dmitri because it's an engrossing, classy film. Turn the lights off and the sound up and you should get a jump scare or two cos' it's also a creepy film too. John.
I always enjoy your reviews and insight. Thanks!
Thank you for letting me know Dustin. John.
Hi John, excellent review as always and yes, the 4k without hdr is still better than 1080p standard bluray. I may see you at the Phoenix as its not far from me, will be my 1st time at one of these gatherings and I'm only going for curiosity's sake and it being on my turf😅. I also purchased HMV 3 for £30 4k films, I got Poltergeist (original 1982), Psycho and Jurassic World Dominion to complete that trilogy, Lost Boys was sold out otherwise would've got that!!
If you do get to the Phoenix please come and make yourself known. I'll be around but mainly at the rear of Screen 1 with the projectors. Leave your wallet at home though because you may be tempted by films and equipment and once you start down that route it can be a life long expensive hobby! But it is terrific fun to play at real cinemas.
They had a few copies of The Lost Boys in the Newbury HMV. I'm not sure 4K does particularly well there so I make sure to support them whenever I can. Psycho was a surprise for a tenner. I haven't seen it in years... probably a couple of decades or more. I have Poltergeist on Super 8 and it's a fabulous 'Scope print that could never be replaced by anything... except perhaps a 35mm print!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Hi, yes I will make myself known to you if I come, hoping I will, thanks.
Nice review on my maybe list. It’s one of those movies that the first watch was the best, at least for me. I was going to mention I’ve been using my Panny 4K player. Does a nice job with hdr optimizer on my projector. Like your shirt! Maybe I’ll wait for the half off Criterion sale.
I probably wouldn't have bought this one if I hadn't been asked to take a look at it Gary. I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I'd have known it didn't have HDR and how wrong I'd have been in that case. It's good to be proved wrong sometimes.
It's cold here today so I had to wrap up a little. It's cheaper than putting the heating on though. Actually, anything is cheaper than heating over here these days... apart from petrol!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Cold here too. We went from 90 to 60 overnight or for you 32 to 15!
Excellent review John! Yours is an opinion I put a lot of trust in! I just might splurge for the Criterion 4K after all.
It might look a bit grainy on your big telly so make sure the sharpness is as low as you can go satisfactorily and don't have it too bright. But it may look fine as it is so perhaps just check it a little first. It looked just like a film on our ten foot screen. John.
First. Another video to enjoy thanks a lot, John.
You're welcome. Quite an enjoyable video to make as it's another film I've enjoyed many times since its first release. John.
John! I've just posted my 4K review of the Criterion edition. Your review really inspired me to get it. I've watched your video 3 or 4 times now. Thanks!
Yours is a great video. Thank you for covering The Others in such detail. John.
@moviecollector5920 hey thank you for watching it! I always look forward to your videos. I enjoyed the recent one where you had a friend come by. I went and subscribed to his channel too.
@@MyFireVideos Trevor's videos are getting better and better but best of all is that he worked as a home movie disc (DVD and Blu-ray) quality controller for about ten years with most of those years being within the immense Pinewood Studios. He spots things that few others would. John.
This is an upgrade from vhs for me so I’m excited to see it in 4K. Shame the stereo audio isn’t included but the 5.1 is what was the premium format at the time so that will be nice to hear
It was 5.1 in cinemas but the Dolby Atmos track sounded better than the DTS on my 5.1 Pioneer/KEF THX Ultra. Funny you mention having the VHS because I was only thinking that when this was released on DVD hardly anyone seemed to have DVD. Funny to think back on those days now.
John.
@@moviecollector5920couldn’t agree more! I have so many of these on vhs & a few on dvd but those always were for films I couldn’t get on vhs 😂
I know the new atmos is also director approved like the 4K transfer so it must have been really optimized for home cinemas now.
Having to import this since the criterion locally in the states, only has the atmos audio option. Shame criterion is lacking more and more these days.
Thanks for the thumbs up on 65, another great review John...
I only knew to purchase a copy because other RUclipsrs had reviewed it and we surprised how good it was. I think I was even more surprised than they all were. John.
Nice one John.
I think I worked on The Others BD when I was at Testronic.
It's nice to know that at least some Buena Vista distributed releases have been given the all clear for a 4K SKU. I wonder if Disney were only distributing these titles through BVHE that they didn't hold the licences
That slip is lovely, I'll be sure to pick one up.
Hmmm I never had a problem with Plane, at least I don't recall one. Sounds like it's a compatibility issue. Something we would have found at Testronic Labs.
You have 2 different players right and the same thing happened in both?
Good heads up video.
Take it easy
Trev
Morning Trev. See you at the weekend? We do have two players and it was the same on both. All five that I've come across with the 4K fault are the same (i.e. identical fault) on each player. I would have changed it for another copy of PLANE at the Swindon HMV but they'd sold out. I was going to purchase a second copy in Newbury but they'd sold out too. Swindon let me keep the slip cover for just this eventuality which was very kind of them. Still, it was good to be able to swap it (plus a fiver) for 65 which I think is terrific. Actually, I think PLANE is pretty terrific too so we've been doing well for new movies recently.
John.
Nice review @Movie Collector but the biggest surprise came at the end: 65! I bought that one also last week with Kino Lorber’s excellent 4K releases of Ronin and was surprised by what a nice, entertaining sci fi flick 65 was. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Ronin, despite its rather steep import price is also highly recommended despite the fact I already own multiple copies of it on blu ray this 4K is a major visual upgrade.
I would like that Ronin 4K but it's going to have to wait. I do have the DVD and that's still good to watch even at ten feet wide. But I do like car chases so the thought of seeing those chases in old cinema quality when the quality was actually bloody good is going to be too much to resist eventually.
John.
I agree Pieter. Kino Lorber’s release of Ronin is absolutely superb, the picture has that cold palette to it (just as it was on 35mm in 1998) but the sound mix is jaw dropping. The best it has sounded IMO
@@spaceodds1985 Stop encouraging me damn it! I can't afford it... maybe I can!!! John.
@@spaceodds1985 yes I didn’t even mention the sound but that is also a reason to buy the cinematic masterpiece.
@@pieterbalk-ht7kq Absolutely. Playing this back on my surround set up I did notice a major improvement over the sound mix on the Arrow video counterpart. The sound mix used on the Kino Lorber release was the result of yet another remix.
Great movie interesting review, would have ignored it had i known there was no hdr but will now have to reconsider.
It was a genuine surprise. I was quite angry about it to start with and convinced it was a mistake that replacement discs would need to be replicated to rectify. By the time I'd got to the end and checked it against the Blu-ray I was rather pleased they'd done it without HDR. If I hadn't have checked the HDR setting right at the start I might not have noticed it wasn't actually on there. But it is a little colourless in some scenes at the start so I think I'd have had a play anyway. John.
Got my rail tickets for Leicester for Film is Fabulous (and a trip to the Great Central Railway the day before) are tickets available on the door or only in advance on-line as I am not sure of my printer if I need to print any out.
We have got agreement from the Phoenix to hold some tickets back for the day Brian so you should be alright. If you can find a way to get one on-line first though it would be helpful. It's not us that have insisted on all this, it's because the venue has to adhere to all sorts of fire and safety regulations so they have to be sure they're not going to be overrun which they could be if all the publicity kicks in next week. John.
What do you think about scanning interpositives and releasing them on 4k? I have an Arrow copy of Hills Have Eyes and it looks tremendous. I believe it’s from an IP. Have you seen the Shout Factory of The Thing? Very different colors compared to the newer negative scan. You should check that out considering it’s a Carpenter film. Also have you noticed these negative scan releases of anamorphic films have the image stretched out to correct for lens anomalies? It’s a great idea but you wind up losing picture info due to cropping.
I think I'd answered parts of this in an earlier post Cody but I had assumed you were talking about the previous version of The Thing because the 4K Studio Canal release of the 1982 film is outstanding and gives us back the true look of the film prints thanks to the improved density and colour from HDR. I don't have the anomaly with the 'Scope frame being stretched too much so that will be a setting somewhere on your system. If there is any image cropped on occasion then don't worry too much as films are usually cropped a little in cinemas - or at least they were before video projection took over - so you will rarely lose anything overly important. I think we tend to get a little too hung up on all this now so try to just watch a movie on video disc and enjoy it. It would be a different matter if we were spending out vast sums of money on new film prints but these home video releases are so good for so little money we should all be a little more accepting and forgiving if any minor compromises have had to be made to ensure the end product is as good as possible. A good example for this might be 'It's a Wonderful Life' because that looks like it was cropped slightly all around to eradicate the inevitable print weaving and to square up the corners of the frame. But who cares when it looks that good on a big screen in your home for only about £15?
John.
Hey John, great video as usual. Glad I watched this as I too have The Shining on 4k. I purchased it upon release day. Watched it about 3 time with my Panasonic 4k player. Have not watched it in about a year and put it on this weekend and it froze just as Scarman heads into the store during the snow storm. Tried it a few times and the same issue keeps happening. You mentioned the 4K fault. Is this just with this disc? Kinda weird that it used to play fine but no more. I'm worried that it is disc rot in this case as it used to play fine. Is this 4k fault a common issue with Warner 4ks? I want to order a new copy but am afraid it will have the same issue. Hope you can shed some light. Keep up your mighty work. Roy.
I've come across five titles that suffer what I call 'the 4K fault' Roy but I can't claim to know what the cause is. Like you though, I think it's the silver layer breaking down and it seems to be after the laser has heated it up at least once. However, with PLANE, that disc had not been played before so that's thrown a spanner in the works - it must have come out of the presser with a faulty silver layer already built in. However, it is possible that it's our players wearing out and what was once good when they were brand spanking is now not so good and unable to read the tiny tenets of information around layer changes. Others have told me it's more common on triple layer discs but I'm not convinced yet because my disc of the rare documentary 4K 'APOLLO 11' developed the 4K fault and I think that may be just a single layer. I hope I'm wrong there and happy to be corrected but it's a short video compared to every other disc I have.
The good news is that these discs rarely cost much to replace (APOLLO 11 excepted, damn it!) so a tenner will usually snag a replacement. I got a TENET replacement for £10 and then a few days later a local charity shop had a copy for £3.50 so I've got two spares now and the £10 one hasn't seen a player yet and won't until/if the charity shop copy goes down the same route as my original disc. Actually, that original disc always had break up on the menu screen before the fault finally came about during the movie at the layer change. I think it's the layer change anyway. I dread to think how many 4K discs are currently sitting on my shelves awaiting a second watch that may be faulty. Probably 3 to 5 per cent of them.
John.
Hi there can you tell me if there are subtitles with this version as there were none with either the blue ray or dvd versions for some reason? Even the streaming version as was the case for cliff hanger !
I'll try to remember to have a look. Don't let me forget if you don't hear within a couple of days.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 thanks
Subtitles are English hard of hearing, French and German. I've put the 'English hard of hearing' subtitles on and as far as I can see they're plain English subtitles. John.
@moviecollector5920 cheers thanks for checking I'll defo get next time I'm in hmv
Great review I own the others from way back might watch again no rush for 4k
I only have that DVD from 21 years ago Steffy so when people asked me to review the 4K I didn't take much persuading. John.
Thanks for review John.
You're welcome Craig. John.
I have the DVD but when I bought the Blu-ray for my 65 inch OLED I was surprised with how much grain/noise I saw. Is this still the case with the 4K disc?
It is a fairly coarse grain film but more so on HD video and 4K owing to the scanning process that's used and the amount of light being punched through most home systems. Make sure any 'sharpness' is turned down or off because that sharpens up the edges of film grain. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Sharpness is at '0'. I think they must have used a very light sensitive film stock, those tend to have a lot more visible grain. I didn't notice it with the DVD and my 50 inch Plasma TV at the time (never saw it in the theater). Then again, we're probably getting used to the cleanness of digital film.
Thank you John.
Thank you Cheekster. John.
I was abit caught in two minds on this one but I don't own the blu so think I'll grab it.
I love the artwork so that's a bonus.
Thanks for keeping me Informed as always, you're doing the Lords work 😊
Cheers.
I was surprised to learn that 4K can still be superior to Blu-ray on our tiny home screens without HDR. I had been saying for years that 4K would be a complete waste of time without it so I'm currently eating a nice big bowl of humble pie!
Now then, when's the next video nasty review?
John.
Can’t wait to see this. I don’t imagine the Criterion 4k (which has the better cover art in my opinion) will have a better encode, but we shall see.
Apparently it's the same disc but there is a second disc which may have additional extras on it. I hope you like what you see when it arrives. John.
Great review and u have good taste in film as usual John :) I really like this creepy ghost story with great performance by Nicole Kidman. I'm very pleased with the suprise ending which makes the film more intresting. Some people compare The Others to The Sixth Sense (another really good film) but I acctually think this film is slightly better.
I prefer it to The Sixth Sense and part of the reason for that is because I don't find The Sixth Sense very repeatable. Once you've seen it twice and picked up on all the clues there's not really much to it. But The Others is creepy and good to watch because of that and the overall atmosphere. That and Nicole Kidman has never looked more beautiful!
John.
It's slightly better because the sixth sense is a huge mess and the plot makes no sense.
@@brunomachado7279 I think The Sixth Sense is great the first two times you see it but a third viewing doesn't require any concentration so then there's not a lot to it. But it was great to see it that first time and then try to play it all back in your head and talk about it with others who had also seen it and been a bit bamboozled. I prefer The Others though so we're of similar opinions. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Hello! It makes no sense for me. The guy is dead for a year and a half and is not aware of it. What happens when he tries to talk to other people? His wife is "cold". He never saw her talking to other people about his death? The script is so lazy and convenient, so we never see him trying to communicate to other people. The script has more holes than a swiss cheese.
@@brunomachado7279 Fair points there Bruno. His is a ghost though and do we know if he's just come back or has he been roaming around dead for the past 18 months? He doesn't appear to be fully coherent the way I see him so my take has been that he's in limbo and has just come more into the real world and more able to interact. Whatever the case it doesn't really matter because it's a film and some of us will like it very much and some of us won't like it so much. If we all thought the same about everything we saw there would be something wrong. I'm not particularly keen on Titanic but most people love it. I just wanted all the main characters to drown so that's not a good starting point for a film about a sinking ship! John.
Have been waiting for this one! While I love the movie beginning to end, I wish they'd set the final séance scene in a contemporary period. This would have given more contrast in the time settings, rather than a mere 30 or so years. Just a thought.
I wouldn't want to see that Rene. Just as well we're all different though. John.
I actually feel like it helps the reveal feel a touch more ambiguous for a second before it fully sinks in what's going on, which I see as a good thing
Best dino-movie? Not seen '65' but can it be better than Jurassic Park? DOUBT IT! ;) Aaaand; As kind of watcher of your channel i must say I love it! Keep it up!
There are sequences of Jurassic Park that are so good that it stands on those sequences alone. I preferred the setting and story of 65 but it's all a bit science fiction and set in the past so may not appeal so much to most people. I thought it was a gripping watch and loved the computer generated dinosaurs which I usually don't. So you'll have to try it and report back Johan!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 OK. I've put it on my wishlist. Now im too busy watching horror movies ;)
The Others looked incredible on my Sony OLED. I wonder if they mastered it on an OLED because I got no shadow noise, no macro-blocking, etc. it was clean, sharp, and I don’t think HDR is necessary here.
I believe grading is done using reference monitors that cost a lot more than you or I would spend on a telly M J. I have seen them using video projection too in documentaries about how the films were 'restored' and that makes more sense because the bigger the image is the easier it is to see everything. The Others surprised me for not having HDR (I probably wouldn't have bought a copy if I'd have realized) but then surprised me even more by proving that HDR wasn't necessary and quite possibly even ensured the final image was better without than with. John.
Here in the U.S. (New Jersey actually), the Criterion copy I ordered won't arrive for another week. Am very much looking forward to how great the Dolby Atmos improves the audio experience. (Especially where someone upstairs from Nichole Kidman's character downstairs is making all kinds of noise which drives her nuts.) My four overhead atmos speakers, I'm hoping, leaves me convinced someone is upstairs from my living room, prowling around up there. Am looking forward to how well the atmos tracks enhance the film. It also leaves me quite pissed at Steven Spielberg: The 4K releases of Poltergeist and Close Encounters not only DO NOT have atmos tracks, the 5.1 tracks on both are front heavy, practically no rear channel activity of any consequence, a hark back to the early days of home video, back when Spielberg continued to believe a film should only be enjoyed to its fullest extent in a movie theater and not in one's home. He created specific 70mm blow up prints from the 35nmm original negatives with six magnetic sound channels. In a theater, the surround effects were spectacular. I own both 4Ks of those films and would trash them in a heartbeat if he had them reissued with better surround coverage.
The sound comes from all over including above in The Others Paul. To be honest, it did on the DVD but I think it's even fuller and more exciting now. You should have a great time with it. I have Poiltergeist on Super 8 and initially the sound was awful (it's a long story) but I re-recorded it from the VHS tape and it's actually rather good as a result. Dolby Stereo wasn't always like what came later but I liked the occasional rear channel effect. They were obvious when they occurred but today I tend to mainly watch the film and enjoy the overall quality of the soundtrack rather listen for where the sound may be emanating. John.
Where do you got your 4ks from? I really struggle finding sleeves.
HMV Samuel. If you're in Britain then there's usually one nearby with more branches being added quite regularly now. Also appearing across Canada within Toys R Us stores plus one recently opened in Brussels and Dublin. John.
Hi John. I may be wrong, but I believe wide color gamut (p3) is only accessible on a 4k disc if hdr is utilized. I’ve heard a hack is to place the movie files inside an hdr folder, though the movie isn’t graded as such, thus allowing for the richer color (Criterion did this with Virgin Suicides). The Others is a fairly colorless movie, so it probably doesn’t make much difference. Contrast is also aided significantly by bit depth. And a higher bit rate allows for superior tone mapping if your projector is capable. Some candle light would certainly look better in hdr, but maybe it wasn’t worth the hassle.
Apparently the director approved the way this 4K was done Cody so that probably explains it. I expect HDR applied from a new transfer or the original camera negative would have meant black areas of the image would have had detail in them we weren't supposed to be looking at or distracted by. I was surprised (and a bit bloody annoyed!) when I first realized the disc didn't have HDR. I thought it was an unintentional error but as the movie unfolded before me I started to think HDR would have been a waste of time. A look at the Blu-ray suggested that was inferior but I was suspicious that I might be imagining it so I went back and forth between the two several times to get definite confirmation of the undoubted superiority of the 4K. Then there was my experience of the film via the 35mm trailer which appears strikingly similar to the look of the new 4K disc. Put that all together and my conclusion is that HDR was not desired by the director because applying it would result in a revised look to the film overall and would spoil its appearance and atmosphere. A genuine surprise because I have long said that 4K without HDR is a waste of time. Lesson learned!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 What I find interesting about this, John does this mean the film was shot to include details that the director knew wouldn't be seen in the cinema? By that, does the process of camera film to cinema print result in a darker image? And that is something the director and DP accommodate for? Otherwise I can't see why you would shoot at a level that includes details you wouldn't want seen.
@@davidjames579 I might well be wrong David. But I do think the sets were lit to create a particular look and style. Go back to the negative and use modern video grading tools today and you'd be able to bring out details that were never expected to be seen. This 4K looks just like the 35mm print quality to me (probably even sharper on the disc compared to the trailer I have) so that tells me that HDR was not going to add anything. John.
Well for what it's worth, there's a fair number of scenes that were lit to mimic candlelight yet the actual key lights were not literally candlelight. Scenes where realistically, a candle or two was supposed to be the only light in the room yet much of what's luminating them is coming from above. The absence of HDR may've been an attempt to make artificial lights feel a bit more like natural, given the particular lights and filmstock they chose to use.
It's not uncommon for DPs to play these kinds of tricks. The best DPs will light sufficiently and atmospherically in such a way that's either entirely seamless with the real environment...or drastically different enough that it's clear they're priorizing overall atmosphere and subject visibility over literal realism. It's a balancing act.
@@davidjames579one thing about photography, whether on film or digital, is that a DP can choose to do one of 3 and a half things:
1) shoot to "underexpose" a bit..then bring up the exposure in post (which exaggerates grain yet offers less detail),
2) shoot to "overexpose" a bit..then bring down the exposure in post (which minimizes grain and optimizes detail), or
3) shoot to expose everything "perfectly."
Which of these strategies is used may be consistent but could also be complicated if the artistic choice and/or physical availability of types of filmstock used varies throughout the shoot. And the further issue sometimes is that shoots can be unpredictably constrained for time and resources well enough that getting the contrast levels of everything in the frame perfect can be a challenge, no matter which of the 3 strategies is used. Not to mention the need/desire to get all of the footage throughout the movie to look as unified as possible despite the various shooting challenges over the weeks it takes to shoot. Each scene/setup has its unique challenges, hence demanding unique solutions, hence demanding slightly unique efforts to unify the look of all of the scenes.
Bottom line, when they're in the editing room yes, they may come across some things that weren't quite as intended - whether necessary information hidden that must be brought to light, or distracting imagery too apparent that must be dampened..if not knowing from the start that strategy 2 was the whole point for some scenes, or atmospheric tweaks.
With strategy 2, one could still get the clarity benefits or it yet nonetheless present a gothic horror-appropriate grain structure if choosing a filmstock with a high enough ASA. And regardless of what combination of all of the above, lack of HDR can be seen as yet another element of this post-production process to acheive the look he wanted to begin with.
Wow i agree ..i bought 65 and i had my cinema shaking, i really enjoy that movie..
I could watch it again right now. A great movie. John.
surprising to see no HDR but I'll give it a try since you recommended it. I loved this movie when it came out.
Morning Luis. Within the comments on here I've been told that the director approved this one so that appears to back up what I was saying with regard to HDR potentially revealing detail in the blacks that we're not supposed to see. The colour, density and definition were all superior to the Blu-ray as far as I could make out by switching from one to the other so the people who graded/mastered this release pulled off a superior product without the need for HDR. Up to now I'd convinced myself that a 4K disc release without HDR was pointless so I'm happy to be proved wrong. Currently eating a nice bowl of humble pie!
John.
Hello John..
Thank you for this review.. I really liked the cast and the atmosphere the film exudes when I saw it in the cinema, although the twist at the end was a tad predictable.. There’s also an American Television Series of the same name prior to this film that was really good but was cancelled after one season..
Are 35 mm transfers to 4k HDR generally tougher to get right in PQ, than let’s say 65 mm transfers? I’m not sure if I need to upgrade my old Sony UBP-X700, as I noticed that most older films doesn’t translate well with that player, shadow details are crushed, and the contrast is really lacking, but maybe it’s just my 2020 LOLED TV..
35mm is higher quality than 4K video as you would expect Rick but 65mm is off the scale. This is the reason why 65mm/70mm look so much better than anything else on video disc other than genuine 15/70mm IMAX films. Movies shot on video have come a long way and Top Gun: Maverick proved that 35mm can be exceeded but put that to the test with modern fine grain film stocks on 35mm and we might be surprised. The quality you're seeing of 70mm films on home video may be causing some confusion so perhaps do what I do and that is to play with all the settings of player and telly/projector over and over and over again until you reach a happy medium.
John.
Thanks for the advice and deeper insight, John.. Much appreciated.. Have a great week ahead..@@moviecollector5920
On my tv 77inch oled)I couldn't see any difference between the new remastered 1080p blu ray and the 4k tbh. The atmos is nice tho ( on both the discs) , so have no regrets .
Lost boys on 4k is superb BTW. Look forward to your thoughts.
Cor, that telly must be about five feet wide Ian. I would have thought you'd have seen the difference but it just goes to show that all our systems are different. It's possible the 4K wouldn't look any different to the Blu-ray through our other 4K projector but I'm not set up to use that on a second screen yet. Once I get the digital sound for the 35mm sorted I might put that projector and the ten foot wide drop down screen in the living room whereupon I can point the other 4K projector at it too. Then I'll be able to compare to different but identical sized video projections of the same discs.
I might include The Lost Boys in a future video. Perhaps a round up or just a summary after another 4K review or something.
John.
Its a very nice upgrade on the older dvd, a slight upgrade on the Blu ray thats included in the package, I enjoyed it, But I have moved my copy on as i dont think i will watch it again , I had the same dvd as you and didnt watch it since i bought it originally lol
I've watched that DVD more often than most Aidey. The 4K was a fairly significant upgrade over the Blu-ray on my system but I didn't check it through our telly which may have been imperceptible. They're all different. John.
After hours is very weird, but great, watched it in the 80's, really liked it
A couple of people on here recommended it and asked I do a review so I said I'd take a chance. The fact that Rosanna Arquette is in it tipped the balance! John.
Merry Xmas , John watched my favorite Xmas movie…Die Hard! Made an offer on The Others. Got accepted Criterion for $30.
I actually prefer DIE HARD 2 to the original film Gary. I've got them both on Super 8 though and also the third in the series now that I think about it. THE OTHERS was a real surprise - a 4K without HDR that proves it's not actually as vital as I always considered it to be. Humble pie for me on that one.
John.
I’d love to hear what you think of The Lost Boys. I think you’re in for a real treat. I’m not much of a horror fan, aside from a handful of films including The Exorcist and The Thing (1982). I do appreciate the classic Universal Monsters and Hammer Horrors, though. The Lost Boys came as a huge surprise to me seeing it first run at the cinema in my youth. It’s an exhilarating and wildly entertaining movie. It’s mix of humor, horror, and reverence for its genre are expertly balanced, even better than An American Werewolf in London, at least to my taste. I remember seeing it at least three weekends in a row, mainly because it proved to me that even genres which I might not necessarily enjoy are, with the collaboration of proper talent, still capable of winning me over from time to time. Wait for it…”Holy shit! It’s the attack of Eddie Munster!”
I'd stopped going to see horror movies by the time THE LOST BOYS was released as I'd done them to death and started to find them all rather silly rather than scary. There were occasional exceptions so given what you've said, I might be about to discover another. I don't know when I'll actually find the time to watch it though so it might take me a while. I've got about 25 discs up there awaiting a watch now so that should take us up to Christmas at least.
John.
Nicole Kidman performance is stellar one of my favourite horror movies 🎥 got 4 k Blu-ray not watched it yet
I was pretty angry when I realized there wasn't HDR but by the end of it and checking it against the Blu-ray I was surprised and impressed. I hope you are too Stuart. John.
@@moviecollector5920 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 👻🎃👍📽️
salut belle et bonne vidèo sur la revue du film 4k
Thank you as always Alain. Ou en français, merci comme toujours Alain. John.
Liked it so much at the time that i took it to my parents house and made them watch it the next day
It was a rare thing even in 2001 - a horror/chiller that was actually scary and didn't resort to cheap tricks and 'orrible computer effects in an attempt to frighten people. An intelligent film that plays as well today as it did when it was new... or maybe plays even better today than it did when new. John.
I always loved the U.S Region 1 DVDs because they were always much more sturdy, werent plastered in ratings logos and the BBFC hadn't taken their scissors to them.
They had 100 lines less though so were always a little below par... but they were so good anyway that it didn't matter. John.
Lost Boys on film is magic. If you can, try to locate a print for your amazing projector! Hopefully the 4k disc can give you a sense of it.
I don't have many 35mm prints owing to the space they take up but it's always even more special to have a favourite film on film. Super 8 has the advantage of taking up minimal space so even though it's nowhere near as impressive as 35mm it's always exciting to have a film on that diminutive gauge.
John.
Do you think you would prefer it if they had scanned the interpositive rather than the negative?
@@CodyMarion01 I'm curious as to why you've asked that Cody. Apocalypse Now had to be done from the interpositive as the original negative for that film no longer existed in its original from (re-wrorked into the Redux version) but it would have looked even better if it had have been possible to cine transfer the negative. I can't imagine there's much in it between negative and interpositive but I'm confident that we'd be able to tell the difference if we were able to project the results from both side by side. John.
Nuance is gained from scanning the negative; but nuance is also lost. Please check out the 2k scan of the interpositive of The Thing when you can. It’s from Shout Factory. The colors look different. Other aspects are different as well, such as the framing. Opticals, etc. Thank you for mentioning Apocalypse. The 1080 Blu-ray of the restoration looks so much better than the 4k. Now I know why. That is the perfect example of HDR ruining a movie shot on film. The Godfather is another one.
@@CodyMarion01 Apocalypse Now with HDR closely resembles how I saw it (twice) in cinemas back in 1979 and 1980. The rich colour of the film has been brought back whereas the Blu-ray looks a little lacklustre and therefore not so much like the film. I think we can often get misled by a previous video release as that is what we get used to seeing. I loved the lush colours of Apocalypse Now when I first saw it but never got on with it so well following that... until the 4K appeared. First of all I only had the latest version of the film which I think is called 'Final Cut' but when I saw how that looked I sourced the six disc release which had the original version of the film included and that was a eureka moment. HDR isn't always applied correctly and sometimes it doesn't look as good as it should on individual systems. I see many setups with the colour and brightness all set too high but that is a mistake many people make. I prefer a video projection - and even a telly - to look like film as closely as possible and that is how I try to set everything up. I have to play with the brightness of our present video projector for different discs though as they vary so much. Most of the time it's about reining in the light output/brightness to get the best out of it. HDR is often too bright on this latest video projector whereas my earlier projector doesn't suffer as badly in that regard.
I haven't seen The Thing which I think must be the earlier version of the film rather than the John Carpenter masterpiece because that one is another fabulous 4K that brings back the life and vibrancy of the film prints. Nor have I seen The Godfather on 4K. In fact, I've only watched my LaserDisc of that film once as violent gangster films aren't really my preferred method of relaxation! One day I'll watch those first two Godfather films again but I struggled with them years ago and I just haven't had the time to revisit them in more recent years. It's a shame though because the gatefold packaged Laserdiscs are fabulous.
Try playing with your settings as it's only through trial and error and finding what looks right to you that you'll eventually find a set of settings that work for you. Get the brightness and the light output down and get some of the colour out because usually televisions come with it all whacked right up. Video projectors are likely even more important to get right and it took me ages to get my latest projector working as well as it is now. But I still have to play it's just that I know which settings to fiddle with and I've got it down to one or two now as everything else seems to be just about right. It's all part of the fun really.
John.
I've only got the R1 DVD from years back (also a bulky box) so even without HDR it'll be an upgrade! I also did the HMV 4k 3 for £30 at weekend (Carlisle branch) - The Shining, Jaws and Godzilla. You've got me worried about The Shining 'fault' though...
I think I've come across five 4K discs with the 4K fault so far but I do go back and run bits and pieces more often than most owing to the recaps for reviews so it's possible I'm finding them when others don't. It's also possible I've just been unlucky but £10 for a replacement is hardly worth worrying about. I got a £10 replacement for TENET and then got another in a charity shop for £3.50 so I've got two spares of that one. They're random titles so it's just problems with the silver layers breaking up I think and that's a manufacturing fault that won't be across the board.
John.
unfortunately some 4k discs come with manufacturing faults like faint scratches on them. A bit naughty, but if you buy a replacement through Amazon, you can return your old copy that way through a customer return. I've done this a few times and the replacement disc has always been fine.
Also, a lot of discs come with manufacturing gas smeared on, so I'd recommend trying a microfibre cloth and wipe out from centre in case it's that that's stuck on the disc rather than a scratch.
I was having a lot of problems with discs on my Sony X700 which has poor error correction. It's known to strive with 100 gig discs, which many out down to the layer change, but in my own experience it's the way it deals with imperfect discs - the replacement disc rarely threw up the same faults.
Regardless, I've recently changed my player to a multi region blu ray version of the Panasonic UBP820, which is much better. Dolby vision is similar, but the upscaler on HDR10 and blu ray is an upgrade over the Sony and I've only had one disc issue so far with Dunkirk, which was a scratch on the disc itself.
@@benpascall4297 Apart from PLANE all the discs I've found have developed the 4K fault after they've had the laser pass over them once or twice. No amount of cleaning does anything but I put 2001 on a couple of weeks ago and the problem is getting worse so that seems to confirm laser rot which now seems to be more widely known as disc rot. I will never buy from Amazon and will continue to support traders who have physical shops above all others. The way we're heading here the only business we'll have left is Amazon which will fit into the ambition around the world for us all to be kettled up in 15 minute cities.
If I'm able to purchase another Panasonic I'll be getting that same model with all zone and all region built in. Good choice there.Ben. And thanks for the advice on the laser rot issue which could help others reading this. That could have been the case with PLANE but it was easier to return it rather than risk damaging it. I would have got a replacement copy of it but they'd sold out. It was sold out in Newbury too so it appears to be a good seller. They let me keep the slipcase though so I'll be able to get another copy sometime down the line.
John.
thanks for the reply John.
Not sure if you have a Panasonic player too, but I've read if the Panasonic players themselves developing a fault reading discs after a couple of years. I think it may well be a problem that develops with the players error correction or laser after a few years of use. There's videos on RUclips about it.
@@benpascall4297 That's one of the reasons I wanted to get the 820 player Ben but I think I need a wealthy benefactor! It shouldn't happen and the fact that it occurs on both my players suggests it's disc faults causing it... but I can't be certain until I have a new player to try the knackered discs on. John.
I loved 65 and i am a fan of Adam Driver...not so much his appearance in star wars but loved his work on 65 and The last Duel 👍 didn't really understand the hate 65 received i am of the same opinion as you john
If 65 got criticized it will have been because it's not Jurassic Park. Don't take any notice as they'll get over it. A good movie always gets the respect it deserves in the end. John.
John. I am frankly sick and tired of studios making mistakes with the artwork specifications. Universal SONY titles seem to be the worst, they just don't check. There are numerous titles labelled with HDR10+ when the disc does not have it. I am seeing more and more errors and I just don't think they spend 10 minutes before they press print. My package in Australia doesn't even mention ATMOS at all on the slipcase.
Proof reading isn't what it once was but it seems to be the same with just about everything these days. Fortunately the error of including details of HDR on the back of this case didn't matter too much in the end because it didn't actually need HDR. I couldn't believe it but I'm still enjoying eating my humble pie and happy to have been proven wrong. John.
Hey John, you should definitely try and review Halloween Kills and Halloween Ends. Ends is pretty good. If you like the halloween movies. The 2018 halloween was ok, but the next 2 in the trilogy are slightly better. 😎
I haven't been able to generate the enthusiasm for either of the last two sequels yet. There were some good scenes in that 2018 video though, just not quite enough to make it a good film. I haven't seen all the Halloween films but of those I've seen it would probably be number 3 (excluding Season of the Witch).
John.
65 was an advrage film at best tbh good video
Just as well we're all different Chris. I was surprised how good it was but I'm into all this science fiction sort of out of time/time travelling nonsense. I liked that it was actually set at the time of the dinosaurs rather than a theme park set in today's world. A load of nonsense of course but carried off well. John.
Hey John, please do not feel any pressure to review After Hours but you did want me to let you know when the Criterion came out in the UK and it’s finally out now.
Ho ho. I did show that I'd got it in this video Sean. Blink and you'll miss it! I'll probably watch it at the weekend and sit there with a pen and paper to write all the reminder notes down. £29.99 so it had better be good because we now can't afford to eat this week!
Okay, I made that last sentence up!
John.
Ah yes I see now, John. I won’t lie to you I didn’t watch the video I just saw it was your latest video and I remembered you wanted me to remind you about After Hours so I commented. I don’t have anything against this video I just didn’t know much about The Others. But you still get a view from me clicking on the video whether I watch it all the way through or not haha.
@@sean9920 I'd been keeping an eye out for After Hours as soon as you mentioned it Sean. I believe it was suppose to have been released about six weeks ago but it didn't make it for some reason. The Others is a good and interesting film. You should watch it. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I have notifications on so I’m sure I won’t miss it. Definitely curious what you think about it both in terms of the new transfer and the movie itself. I think it’s a really well put together comedy that doesn’t feel like a Martin Scorsese film. Also, I’m not into horror too much but I usually give them a go in October so I may watch The Others sometime during this month now that you’ve made me curious about it.
@@sean9920 I haven't cared for too many horror films over the past 35 years but The Others is one that stood out. I think you'll like it because it's certainly not silly like most of them now. John.
Just popping in to say hi
Hi Timothy and thank you. John.
Color out of Space was the same, I ended up buying the standard Blu-ray.
I think The Others is a special case because it's such an intentionally low light film. HDR might have adversely affected the overall look of those black areas of the frame that proliferate almost throughout. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I'm fairly certain that the 4K of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly has no HDR either, maybe there's multiple reasons why?
I've never seen this film, but I did hear it in its entirety. I was working on something quietly and in the next room people where watching it. So, it feels strange that I know this movie even though I've never seen it.
I wonder how closely the film will match what your imagination has told you Rey. It might be just what you're expecting, but conversely it might be completely different. I think it's a clever, very good film with an appropriate look. That appropriate look seems to be why HDR was not applied because it wasn't required. It's all rather rmuted but looks great and exactly as it should... judging by the 35mm trailer. John.
Will you be doing a review of the 4Ks of psycho, the lost boys and the shining ? Brilliant films.
I did The Shining a couple of years ago Finlay. Can't remember it now but it is out there. Don't know about the other two. Might include them in a round up or something along those lines because they're not popular enough for bespoke reviews... Psycho might be now you've made me think about it but it's been around quite a while now.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I’ll take a look for that shining review, I’m sure many including myself would enjoy a psycho review and I love to hear your thoughts on the lost boys since you’ve never seen it, it’s fantastic !
I'm on the fence with HDR. Some films look good others look weird. Older films were not shot with HDR in mind so it's forced, It can have a strange unnatural neon glow to it. Alien Covenant and Prometheus look superb HDR, First Blood looks horrendous. That is the worst UHD I have the grading is lousy compared to the old U.S bluray. They should release more films 4k non HDR. Cheers John.
HDR probably varies depending on who has applied it Lborg. But the idea is to make video look more like film and most of the time it seems to work. We're not getting so many overblown/washed out HDR releases now as we used to so I think the graders have learned as they've gone along and have got better at it. When it's done right a video disc release can almost completely replicate a 35mm print and that is some achievement. All our systems are different though and some are better at reproducing filmic appearance than others which can often be down to the setup as much as anything else. I have film to gauge video by and therefore I'm able to play until my projector matches the look of a film. Usually everyone has them too bright and overly sharpened.
John.
As with just about anything, advances in technology are merely tools. Someone making use of it haphazardly just to say they did can be subject to misapplication.
@@chrisjfox8715 And I'm increasingly thinking that people are subject to misapplication when setting up their home video equipment. Some swear by getting a 'professional' in to 'calibrate' their tellies or video projector but I do wonder if these professionals are working from a set of tools that actually spoil image quality rather than their eyes and those of the person their setting up for. John.
HDR isn't always the be-all, end-all. If you go to a theater - which should be the definitive visual representation of any movie - no HDR (unless it's laser projection). Some DP's aren't cool about it either - Roger Deakins is famously opposed to it. It *IS* a form of revisionism for movies that weren't conceived with it. But ultimately it should come down to whether or not the movie looks good - HDR or not. Every thing we see outside of an "original" theatrical environment is subject to some form of revisionism so you can only go so far with the purist angle. Whatever is done to a movie for a format release should serve the original intent as much as possible. If that includes leaving out the HDR, then so be it.
I think this release proves that HDR isn't the be all and end all. I'm currently eating a nice big bowl of humble pie and enjoying it. I do find that with many 35mm cine transfers HDR manages to make the resultant videos replicate the superior colour and density of the film prints more accurately so most of the time it's done well and works but probably wouldn't have done for The Others owing to its dark nature. But I don't go to a cinema at all any longer unless I know it's a genuine film print as I find the downgrade since the heights of the 1990's too depressing. I do find it sad to watch the terminal decline though and all the cinemas closing but I'm as much to blame as anyone because I no longer go regularly. Now that I think about it I tend to only venture along to the BFI IMAX when they have a genuine IMAX screening but I really should get along to the Prince Charles and other film cinemas who are still making the effort. It's all rather sad now that I think about it.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I'm with you there, John. My wife and I went to see A Haunting in Venice on Saturday and I was very underwhelmed by the optical presentation -- I'm pretty sure it only 2K and a little out of focus at that. That film in particular with its dark and gloomy presentation could have benefitted from a proper HDR component. A lot of these multi-plexes haven't upgraded to a proper 4K yet and we're supposed to be moving onto 8K. Fortunately, there are only a few places around here that are still doing 35mm of older films (and 70mm, too). I need to get out there and start frequenting them.
@@Downhuman74 Just to be sure, Vue and Everyman cinemas have 4K projectors in every screen. I'm not sure about others, but Cineworld's always look good when I've been. I was curious to see the visual difference with Haunting as the two previous were shot on 65mm Super Panavision and I've seen them on 70mm, whereas this was shot on 6K with an Ultra Panavision Lens.
@@davidjames579 That's in the UK. Different story here in the States. Unless you're in the big markets (which I'm not), you're looking at tech that's between 7-8 years old.
@@Downhuman74 Oh sorry, I made the assumption of you being in the UK. I'm sorry to hear that about your cinema options. I know Cineworld own Regal, so if they've managed to emerge from their financial troubles they might be your best shot.
I may be wrong but I honestly think HDR is overrated and never enable it. It doesn't matter which display, TV set or device I use (and I have experimented with many over the years), I only ever find HDR to dim the image, nothing more and nothing less. Then find myself falling asleep due to the eye strain of my eyes having to work harder when viewing a dimmer picture.
I can never quite notice this hidden fidelity that HDR is supposed to facilitate. Besides, I always find 4k resolution alone and the high bitrate UHD brings looks great in and of itself.
Up to this point I have found the only perceptible difference between Blu-ray and 4K has been HDR. I'm happy to have finally been proved wrong though but it's been a rarity. Quite often the HDR has been overblown and has to be reined in. John.
Strangely enough just seen a small TV non 4k with HDR built in. Now wondering what the reasoning behind such a set is.
That will be because you can't see the difference between HD and 4K without an enormous screen Mike. Unless it's the 4K and Blu-ray of The Others perhaps! John.
@@moviecollector5920 Well seeing as virtually every 4k has HDR and most other discs don't the answer I have come up with is as follows. Play 4k into TV it's downscaled picture on TV gets HDR applied to it. Seems plausible to me but very niche
Really got shafted here in the uk as Criterion has director commentary which stops me buying this version!
Order the USA version from WOWHD. It will cost just to get a commentary but if that's what you're after then that's the way to do. Actually, I wonder if that commentary is on the DVD which you can probably get for almost nothing nowadays. John.
The Criterion release does have the commentary - it’s in Spanish with English subtitles. It’s a very interesting read (I don’t speak Spanish) lots of trivia and explanations of choices he made. There’s also 7 deleted scenes on the included B/R which the UK release doesn’t have.
@@richardh3761 Thank you for the information Richard. Perhaps in this case I should have said 'gracias por la información Richard'. John.
more saturation?
If by that you're asking if there is more colour in the 4K then yes, there is more colour. It's not quite the usual HDR significance but if that had have been applied then it might have been to the film's detriment.
John.
Bumped up the age rating I see
I hadn't noticed Daniel. I thought it was 15 at the cinema but I should have looked at the tickets more closely.
John.
The DVD you shown us had a 12 rating on there
@@danielwalters2045 It just goes to illustrate that I never notice the damned things! Thanks for pointing it out. I wonder why the certification has now gone up. Strange. John.
Comes with ATMOS???
And DTS. John.
The HDR work seems to be the most costly part of 4k
I wonder if they tested this one with HDR and it just didn't work. Or alternatively they thought it was pointless in the first place and so saved some money. It's turned out so well that I'm pleased they didn't apply HDR whatever the true reason for it. It looks so like the 35mm trailer that I wouldn't want them to change anything. John.
So it says HDR on the slipcover but no HDR on the disc. No HDR on the Criterion in the U.S either. HDR always improves things (even if it’s slightly) and I think you are being extremely forgiving or just defending your purchase. They cheapened out, that’s all there is to say.
You're not correct there. I was initially expecting to say what a waste of money this one was. I was happy to be proven wrong. I'm now told the director approved it so that does seem to confirm everything I said. John.
That’s debatable. The only other 4K’s that I know of that doesn’t have HDR is Kino Lorber’s release of the so called Dollars trilogy. Fistful
Of Dollars looks great, For A Few Dollars More looks a tad more detailed than the Kino BD and THTB&TU is about the same IMO
@@spaceodds1985 Take UHD releases of films shot on 35mm that received a new 4K transfer and the package received both the 4K and a new 2K disc. Films like the original Star Wars trilogy, The Lost Boys or a slew of Arrow releases. The HDR really does improve those films From more natural skin tones to glowing neons that I just didn’t see on the 2K discs.
Side note, do we know if this new 4K disc has been encoded to Rec 2020 SDR?
It’s hard to say they made the right choice if you haven’t seen it with HDR for comparison. I can’t say HDR ever made a picture worse, only better.
That's true Lee. But it looks like the 35mm film trailer and that was the point I was trying to make but failing by the sound of it. John.
The only 4K’s I know off that doesn’t have HDR is the so called Dollars Trilogy.
@@spaceodds1985 And I'm told they're all very good too despite being only TechniScope which is just a little higher resolution than 16mm. I think The Others proves there are occasions when 4K without HDR can work so maybe the Dollars films do too.
John.
I might disagree with hdr not ever making a picture worse.
So Japanese anime is the worst culprit. Take the original Gundam movie trilogy. The brightness is extremely low on those, and it's a known quantity.
@@moviecollector5920As you may know the Dollars trilogy has had a rough ride on home media. With multiple remasters that didn’t exactly cause jubilation. IMO the Kino Lorber BD’s are the best out there with the 4K of A Fistful of Dollars being well detailed and balanced with white scales and black levels being particularly impressive. This being the result of yet another restoration. Seeing this in 35mm a few years ago I can safely say the 4K represents a decent uptick over its BD counterpart. The same could not be said over the sequels which IMO are just as good as their BD counterparts (although the minute notice in detail should not be sneezed at) as mentioned I am talking about the Kino Lorber counterparts.
NO SPOILERS PLEASE!
There aren't any. John.
Your voice is trembling 😮.... Or I feel so
Yes, I don't seem to be myself right now. Too much work so I was under a little pressure to get this done. Hopefully I'll be okay next time but yesterday was the only possibility to get a video planned, recorded, edited and uploaded this week. John.
@@moviecollector5920 take care of health, John 🙏
@@nagoprak I do try. I've worked long hours for many years though so I'm trying to get rid of a lot of it right now. Hopefully by next year most of it will be gone and I'll have some time for things other than work. John.
A 4k physical release should superior to a 35mm release print.
A general release print perhaps but not a master print. General release prints are fourth generation so quite a bit is lost but it's still up there around a computer equivalent of 6K and has the more natural look on top of that. The trailer does look strikingly similar to the 4K without the coarse grain appearance but that could be largely down to the amount of light being punched through the video which always exacerbates the appearance of film grain even on film.
John.
A master print, is that second generation?. Thanks.@@moviecollector5920