Thanks for the review! Was really looking forward to this one, and am especially looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Atiwa and the new Caverna expansion if/when you get to them :).
Thank you for another great video. I love Praga, which you think is just okay. I also love Paladins, which you think is just okay. So my takeaway here is that I will love Woodcraft, haha.
Thank you for the honest review! Just played it and I totally agree with you.What bother me most is the lack of interaction, and the fact that it feels like the game plays you
"Demonic" setting notwithstanding, it's worth mentioning that every single card has a different artwork, unlike 90% of recently released games. On top of that, many order cards are quite whimsical with lots of quicky details
I love your videos. When I hesitate for a game I always listen to your opinion. You always say the bad thing about it and it helps take a real decision. Sometimes I dont agree or Im like « he’s right but I dont mind that » and it helps a lot decide if a game is or is not for me! Thanks you for your honest opinion. I really do apreciate it! ☺️☺️
Played our first game this evening, it felt like their are standard openings that need to be followed. Too much feels like it's geared around the Blue Berry income, and that felt a little bit of a shame.
Hi Luke, good useful video as always. Your criticisms all seem fair enough, and I must say I am a bit on the fence with this one. On a general note, you mention it being very tight, and 60% of voting BGG users view the weight as 4 (medium heavy)... I am not sure I like it when relatively heavy, complex or tight games have a cutesy box cover . It just seems inappropriate (e.g. dungeon petz) and I am unsure why it is done. It runs the risk that buyers who do not spend hours researching on BGG or watching reviews may make a bad purchase, assuming a game to be more suited to youngsters than it is (or at least to be a more 'fun' or lighthearted game than it is ) and I would like to think that isn't what the publishers are hoping will happen
The middle part about helpers and orders was so negative that I almost decided to skip the game! But after playing it I think they are good. The order problem you mentioned (they don't have what you need) only happens with the tools. No other aspects of the game are so dependent on the orders. I think in a single game you'll see enough orders. If you want to go for the tools objective, I think you should go for it in the late game, during the game you can enjoy their rewards, because you get them as side effects of your main actions, and they won't hurt you. About helpers, while luck plays a role, I think four of them should always provide you with interesting choices. And the helper which grants you 2 reputations is pretty expensive and won't give you anything else other than reputation, on the other hand the contract will give you money, end game points, and probably some extra immediate points. I think you'll get enough for the extra labor! Other than that part I think the review is fair, very good review.
Tools are a pretty big chunk of the game though, hell it's the whole top section of your player board. But generally you will be dependant on orders because there's not enough turns to suddenly change tactics or grab resources you don't have.
I have played the game twenty times now, and I see myself doing three or four tools every game! I have maxed tools (the horn) three times. Besides the contracts, the point/money track and the workers can give you tools. So I think if you aim for it, it is almost always a viable strategy. About the contract display, in a two player game you will be picking up one contract per 3.5 contracts you'll see on average. I think it is a good ratio. I have play-tested games where I had eight contracts to choose from, but I couldn't do any of them! So I think the display size does not matter, what matters is if you have enough options at any moment of the game. I think Woodcraft has done a great job of doing that. For sure luck plays a role, but that's the game, you could have ten contracts at the beginning of the game, and just do them. Perfect information. But I prefer the tactical decisions and the race involved. Also the objectives are not a must. You have to really consider getting five points and five money, as with that five money it is possible to get more than 15 points. I have played it solo and two players, maybe the experience differs with more players. And honestly I have no desire to play it more than two, it just introduces lots of downtime.
I ended with very similar thoughts on this one! Potential to be great but ultimately ended up feeling good/ok... Some cool ideas but too tight for my tastes.
I really like this game, but at the same time i fully understand your criticism. With regards to the open scoring cards, i really like your solution. I also think that a 1/2 player score board which swipes 3/4 cards each income fase would be a great asset to resolve your criticism. Would that be a good solution according to you? 🙂
It's interesting that you note the swingy nature of the cards.....I really dislike that sort of thing as well....but at the same time you Viticulture in your top 20....MAN...I think Viticulutre is by and large a solid game but the swinginess of the cards really bothers me.
It indeed has that too, but my whole game doesn't need to rely on them. In Woodcraft, everything is those orders. If I start going for tools, I need the orders to be based around tools otherwise I'm wasting my time. And there's only a small number of rounds so you don't have time to adapt. In Viticulture my strategy is not based on the cards, they simply represent a nice tactical bonus when I obtain them.
I kind of felt your complaints here were a bit off. I have played the solo many times now, and never felt my options limited. I also didn't think the players starting hands were at all "swingy". The rulebook states the end-game-scoring cards will usually only be claimed by a single player, so that is at least intentional. I don't know that they are as OP as you claim, maxing them out seems a bit tough. Also, the "free cut with a planting" rule is important to know, but it is also right where it should be, and has it's own paragraph, so you would only be unaware if you forgot or did not read the rulebook, which I thought was very well written. Maybe if I play with people I'll see it differently, but to me anyhows, you seemed all worked up over nut'n.
It's ONLY in the rulebook though and such a key aspect to balancing the action, it would take nothing to have it on the board or on an aid as I do see others forgetting it too. The swingy aspect is definitely a thing though. The cards that come out will dictate a lot of your ability to do well depending on your starting focus. You don't get time to change your strategy mid game so if you start on tools and then they never turn up, the initial tools were a waste of time. And in solo the cards don't change often often enough or even the dice available to purchase either.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Is it in the plans or you don’t have Sabika? If you say Attiwa is amazing I’m going to cry because that box cover and theme would give me nightmares!!
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
Great review! Love the honesty. I appreciate the simple house rule suggestions.
Thanks for the review!
Was really looking forward to this one, and am especially looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Atiwa and the new Caverna expansion if/when you get to them :).
Won't be too long before I can review Attiwa - i'll be teaching Paul Grogan on his channel this Friday if you want to watch.
Thanks for the review, Luke. I will hold off on getting this one as I was looking at it chiefly for solo play.
Glad I could help!
Thank you for another great video. I love Praga, which you think is just okay. I also love Paladins, which you think is just okay. So my takeaway here is that I will love Woodcraft, haha.
Only one way to find out! :P
Thank you for the honest review! Just played it and I totally agree with you.What bother me most is the lack of interaction, and the fact that it feels like the game plays you
This game heavily plays you. Those cards dictate your whole game.
"Demonic" setting notwithstanding, it's worth mentioning that every single card has a different artwork, unlike 90% of recently released games. On top of that, many order cards are quite whimsical with lots of quicky details
It is pretty to look at.
demonic.... you are right sir
thanks Luke, You are Great as always...👍
Ha ha thanks!
Thank you, Luke. This one I’d need to play before buying. As always, I really appreciate your candor.
My pleasure!
I love your videos. When I hesitate for a game I always listen to your opinion. You always say the bad thing about it and it helps take a real decision. Sometimes I dont agree or Im like « he’s right but I dont mind that » and it helps a lot decide if a game is or is not for me! Thanks you for your honest opinion. I really do apreciate it! ☺️☺️
Same here, thanks for the kind words!
Played our first game this evening, it felt like their are standard openings that need to be followed.
Too much feels like it's geared around the Blue Berry income, and that felt a little bit of a shame.
Hands down you need income or you're going to struggle period. It doesn't have enough rounds in it to allow for any slips, bad moves or bad luck.
Thanks again for a good analysis. With budgets being what they are these days, I would rather save for an excellent game, not simply a good one.
Well said!
Hi Luke, good useful video as always. Your criticisms all seem fair enough, and I must say I am a bit on the fence with this one.
On a general note, you mention it being very tight, and 60% of voting BGG users view the weight as 4 (medium heavy)... I am not sure I like it when relatively heavy, complex or tight games have a cutesy box cover . It just seems inappropriate (e.g. dungeon petz) and I am unsure why it is done. It runs the risk that buyers who do not spend hours researching on BGG or watching reviews may make a bad purchase, assuming a game to be more suited to youngsters than it is (or at least to be a more 'fun' or lighthearted game than it is ) and I would like to think that isn't what the publishers are hoping will happen
Have you got a new camera, lighting, set-up. The focus and lighting in this video are top notch in my opinion - really clear and sharp
Nope, just learning to fine tune it as I go. I think the new table helps also as the wood is a lighter stain. It reflects the light a lot better.
@@TheBrokenMeeple well it looks great
The middle part about helpers and orders was so negative that I almost decided to skip the game! But after playing it I think they are good.
The order problem you mentioned (they don't have what you need) only happens with the tools. No other aspects of the game are so dependent on the orders. I think in a single game you'll see enough orders. If you want to go for the tools objective, I think you should go for it in the late game, during the game you can enjoy their rewards, because you get them as side effects of your main actions, and they won't hurt you.
About helpers, while luck plays a role, I think four of them should always provide you with interesting choices.
And the helper which grants you 2 reputations is pretty expensive and won't give you anything else other than reputation, on the other hand the contract will give you money, end game points, and probably some extra immediate points. I think you'll get enough for the extra labor!
Other than that part I think the review is fair, very good review.
Tools are a pretty big chunk of the game though, hell it's the whole top section of your player board. But generally you will be dependant on orders because there's not enough turns to suddenly change tactics or grab resources you don't have.
I have played the game twenty times now, and I see myself doing three or four tools every game! I have maxed tools (the horn) three times. Besides the contracts, the point/money track and the workers can give you tools. So I think if you aim for it, it is almost always a viable strategy. About the contract display, in a two player game you will be picking up one contract per 3.5 contracts you'll see on average. I think it is a good ratio. I have play-tested games where I had eight contracts to choose from, but I couldn't do any of them! So I think the display size does not matter, what matters is if you have enough options at any moment of the game. I think Woodcraft has done a great job of doing that. For sure luck plays a role, but that's the game, you could have ten contracts at the beginning of the game, and just do them. Perfect information. But I prefer the tactical decisions and the race involved.
Also the objectives are not a must. You have to really consider getting five points and five money, as with that five money it is possible to get more than 15 points.
I have played it solo and two players, maybe the experience differs with more players. And honestly I have no desire to play it more than two, it just introduces lots of downtime.
I ended with very similar thoughts on this one! Potential to be great but ultimately ended up feeling good/ok... Some cool ideas but too tight for my tastes.
Fair enough!
I was hoping for a harsher review Luke, so I would be more convinced to get it 😂 Now you left me undecided 😂😂😂
;-) What does your wallet tell you?
@@TheBrokenMeeple that I should have stopped buying boardgames a long time ago 😂
I’ve found Suchy’s games too tight for my liking. Still own Pragna and Underwater Cities ,but they get passed by for other games .
Lol the comments on the artwork is classic.
I really like this game, but at the same time i fully understand your criticism. With regards to the open scoring cards, i really like your solution. I also think that a 1/2 player score board which swipes 3/4 cards each income fase would be a great asset to resolve your criticism. Would that be a good solution according to you? 🙂
It would certainly help, but it wouldn't take the game from a 7 to a 10!
@@TheBrokenMeeple ofc not, but maybe an elevation to an eight would be possible.
It's interesting that you note the swingy nature of the cards.....I really dislike that sort of thing as well....but at the same time you Viticulture in your top 20....MAN...I think Viticulutre is by and large a solid game but the swinginess of the cards really bothers me.
It indeed has that too, but my whole game doesn't need to rely on them.
In Woodcraft, everything is those orders. If I start going for tools, I need the orders to be based around tools otherwise I'm wasting my time. And there's only a small number of rounds so you don't have time to adapt.
In Viticulture my strategy is not based on the cards, they simply represent a nice tactical bonus when I obtain them.
I kind of felt your complaints here were a bit off. I have played the solo many times now, and never felt my options limited. I also didn't think the players starting hands were at all "swingy". The rulebook states the end-game-scoring cards will usually only be claimed by a single player, so that is at least intentional. I don't know that they are as OP as you claim, maxing them out seems a bit tough. Also, the "free cut with a planting" rule is important to know, but it is also right where it should be, and has it's own paragraph, so you would only be unaware if you forgot or did not read the rulebook, which I thought was very well written. Maybe if I play with people I'll see it differently, but to me anyhows, you seemed all worked up over nut'n.
It's ONLY in the rulebook though and such a key aspect to balancing the action, it would take nothing to have it on the board or on an aid as I do see others forgetting it too.
The swingy aspect is definitely a thing though. The cards that come out will dictate a lot of your ability to do well depending on your starting focus. You don't get time to change your strategy mid game so if you start on tools and then they never turn up, the initial tools were a waste of time. And in solo the cards don't change often often enough or even the dice available to purchase either.
I was taught last night, and I also forgot about this rule.
@@TheLuminousCleric vindication 👍😁
Did you like Sabika better?
Not played it.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Is it in the plans or you don’t have Sabika? If you say Attiwa is amazing I’m going to cry because that box cover and theme would give me nightmares!!
@@Listan1 Attiwa is fun so far! Sabika I don't have, the cover and concept didn't take my fancy and was one of the ones I skipped over.
What about house rules, to cycle the cards more often in solo game and having more cards available with more players, had you tried that?
That's what I'd suggest. Already tried a few - it helps but doesn't vastly change the game.
Maybe the game is set in the world of the 1978 movie Magic? 😉🙂