6.5 Creedmoor - 140gr Nosler RDF with H4350
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2018
- Looking for the best OAL with the 140gr Nosler RDF and Hodgdon H4350.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RUclips content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Ive been watching your channel for a while now and I gotta say it is one of if not the best loading channel on youtube. Ive been loading for prolly 2 years now and much of my knowledge on 300blk has come from your videos. And now I picked up a rem700 in 6.5. I know u said u prefer heavier bullets but i would likw to see u do some barnes work ups, the 120 ttsx, and 127 lrx specificly. I am still aquiring components to start my own work up. Thanks for all yous hard work please keep it up
this is exactly what I found with my rem 700 in 308. when I went from close to the lans to Sami spec Sami spec just kicked all the other groups butt. Same in my 223 rem 700. I just start all my loads to Sami anymore and don't mess with it much. This is by far my favorite channel these days. Keep it up buddy.
I just ordered these, I was so happy and overjoyed to see that you made a video for these, I'll be working with Staball 6.5 and Superformance as that's what I've got available to me. Thanks again Johnny!
Been waiting for this combo since the beginning of the 6.5 Creed series!!
I completely respect what you are trying to do. Prove that reputation of a well-known company that claims accuracy. You are not out to destroy Nosler, You, for the most part, are trying to proof test their product and show them their shortcomings out of the test facility in the real world. Just like Oden Gun Works in the .22 Nosler. completely stock off the shelf "This is what you get" evaluation and may I add, Completely at your expenses and trouble. Good work Johnny, keep it up..
Really enjoying the 6.5 videos. Great information and much appreciated.
Oh great!!! Now I have annealing in my life.... LOL I've found Nosler bullets overall to underperform for me in .308, .300 WM especially. Their 55 grain ballistic tip varmint with H335 shoots very well indeed in my 1:9 Rem 700 VTR. 1/2 inch 100 yard groups with that. Varmageddon shoots extremely well too.
Looking forward to seeing what annealing does for you.
Great video's...thanks!!
Looking forward to 6.5 Grendel videos coming up. Not that I don't like these, but really like Grendel
glued to your channel keep the videos coming
I been telling people for years that setting the bullet close to the rifling and/or high velocity/compressed charges does not necessary create better accuracy. You videos keep proving me correct. 🤔 yet people still want to argue because all the “big boys” say that doing so is the only way. Oh well. I tried.
I agree. The best groups I ever got out of my 270 wsm with 130 grain bullets was with factory Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertips and they are set from factory at .080 to over .100 and shot groups you could cover with a nickel. So, no I don't agree with everything shoots better close to the lands. The more I read and the more I reload and shoot, every gun seems to have its own combination that it likes. I agree that a good starting point may be at say .020 off, but that's not to say that's where it will shoot the best. I just need to do more research on how much of the load I need to decrease when setting bullets deeper. It seems that everytime you change one thing you have to change something else to compensate. That's what makes reloading challenging and fun.
Very interesting stuff, I feel that this video directly applies to my 7mm WSM. I need to decide to do a jump test at some point. I’m thinking try the saterlee charge method find a flat spot in velocity and then do a jump test after. Then see if it shoots a similar group and be done. Hoping not to shoot too many rounds to get out and shooting far with my new rifle. Great explanation thank you!
Hi, after all this time did you find anyting interesting about those "velocity nodes"??? I've made some tests on my rifle that shows no evidence of repeatability (different conclusions each time I do the same test). So, now I set my load slightly under the max and use the seating depth to tune it and get the accuracy.
My 1900 Swede in 6.5 Swedish Mauser will shoot this good with iron sights at 100 yards...it's not a joke...a 121 year old rifle. Factory loads...I did it in 2020...I forget the brand right now of the ammo...but, it was name brand stuff and a fancy box, about 140 grain. That's a ton of work loading that stuff...now, projectiles are $50 or more for 100 ct...it's crazy. Since I don't do much shootin any more as I'm a senior citizen...but for a high value target, I'll load some up and test it...
Because of your videos midway knows me by name!
nice video...
I found my CM likes speed. with all load developments, I find my charge node and then work seating depths. but also don't accept double digit ES/SD... thanks for the video.
Looking forward to more Grendel videos.I’m digging the 120 SGK these days.
I just got some of them the other day and ran a test with h4350 and varget and the varget shot better with the standard seating depth. My rifle is a TC LRR
Great Vid JRB, just looking at that bullet’s design I would have thought they would have shot better with very little jump. Any SMK offerings in the works for the 6.5 Creedmoor series?
Could always do more MK262 testing wile the brass is shipped away (hint hint) can’t get enough of that series lol. But Grendel videos are good too. Thanks for putting out great information and video content.
I don't know if it would make a lot of difference, but when I was load & seat testing this same bullet, I didn't have anything hanging off the barrel. I shot a bunch of groups, as I would at the range, until I found a good one (.660'') only after I found that one did I put a magneto speed device on the barrel to see what it was doing speed wise. It came out at just about 2800 fps from a 26'' barrel, Savage 12 LRP. I made the rounds to about standard COAL (2.800'') which gave me a 0.026 thou jump. This makes me think that my rifle has a fairly short throat / Lead.
But for accuracy testing, I wouldn't put anything on the barrel that I wouldn't have on during a comp.
I had good luck with the RDFs and RL17. They seem to like jump in my Bergara HMR.
My SD also went to crap and started cracking necks after five firings with both Hornady and Winchester LP brass. I annealed them with a blow torch. I also bought new "fat-head" brass from Peterson Cartridge. They said to anneal them after the fourth firing.
Great video! I'm gonna try that with some 142 smk
It might be worth repeating the test without the MagentoSpeed attached - it will effect your barrel harmonics. I use the MagnetoSpeed for testing charge weights, but then I switch to my LabRadar when I'm testing seating depths/group sizes.
I ran the same tests, found 2.825 max overall length to be outstanding in savage . 2.8 was good too. on or near lands not so good.
Was a good video, but really looking forward to some Grendel stuff
Johnny: Was interested why decided on only one charge (i.e. 40gr)? It is my belief (from listening/reading to many reloading 'gurus') that bullet jump would be one of the very last 'refinements' in determining target precision. From my knowledge on Designed Experiments, it is always best to repeat your experiment/trial to see if you get same or different results; while perhaps shooting the groups in a different order (i.e. to eliminate other inputs (e.g. barrel temperature) into your outputs (i.e. POI precision, fps, etc.)). Thanks for your work and video! Nice work.
nice work thanks for sharing
Glad that brass is on its way. Also interested to see you trying one of my "problem" bullets. I have a email from Nosler to load them to the Custom Competition data (COAL of 2.770") which shot horribly, and then close to the lands (shot just as bad) and after getting yelled at by some of my viewers to load between .035 and .055 off the lands it got a lot better. Its not a bad bullet, but the hornady 140s (HPBT and the ELD-M) are so forgiving and shoot so well its makes it hard to want to get it to work. I have some 130 RDF's on the way. I am hoping they will be better. If they shoot and the BC numbers are true, its one of the best options.
200 pcs of brass annealed!
Bolt Action Reloading what’s the advantages of doing this?
Halfdollar 86 of annealing brass?
Bolt Action Reloading yes. I’m trying to learn all I can about reloading and just don’t know much about Annealing
Nosler 140 RDF out of my RPR is shooting very well for me. We shot .566 MOA at 200 yds with it yesterday.
I have had some oddball issues with the Rdf’s. The only gun that I have that also likes them was my creedmoor gas gun.
The most popular combo seems to be 140 eldm and h4350. I wish you'd do a vid on those
Yusss, Friday night bliss for us old farts.
I use these bullets in a 6.5x 55 and get sub 1/2" groups with H4350. Loaded to the COAL in the Nosler manual. I only shoot Nosler bullets in my 6.5 x 55 rifles
I have had the same result across the board with Nosler bullets I have never had good accurate loads the only projectile they have ever made that I even got any use from is there traditional partition in .338/250 grain and I was only able to squeeze 1.5 Mia out of it I was forced into using it on short notice for a grizzly hunt if I had access to anything else I would have not used it.
Not enough charge and when you do this test you first find the node w/ powder and then play with jump. I'm shooting them .01 off the lands and 43.2 grains of H4350 w/ Norma brass and S&B Large Rifle primers.
that is what i was thinking
It's 42.5 of H4350, Hornady brass and CCI BR2 primers for me, nothing more needed. My 6.5 RPR and I are happy.
You can tune any powder charge by playing with jump. Will it be the most accurate load for that particular gun? No, probably not, but you can tighten it up. This video showed that happening.
The only way i have been able to get the RDF to work in two different rifles was to go with IMR4350 instead of H4350. Period. Also the RDF like to jump. Also you need to start using the Redding FL Bushing Sizer Die. Redding told me at Shot Show last month that is the best way to get concentric ammo.
You should invest in the quickload software. I also have the quickload excell calculators that calculates the accuracy nodes for specific barrel lengths. Also move to a separate chronograph that does not affect barrel harmonics.
Push load A 2520 (and other powders) with Nosler with careful tested OAL. 4350 is a good load which loves 6mm bullet projectiles but carefully walking the loads is going down the right road;
What scale is that you're using? Thanks for this great channel and ALL the info you put out for us! Keep up the great job! #top5channelonyoutube
I absolutely love watching your videos! I have the gun. and I have shot 4 rounds in a thumb nail with the fifth shot 1.25in" away (consistently (1 of 4 groups) with hornady 120 gr ELD Match. Try it out
I feel like the reason it shot so well at the lower OALs is because Nosler may have intended for it to jump a fair ways- people seating to "max" at 2.8 inches. Reduced case capacity may have also led to better SDs.
Black B well that’s fine. Just add more powder.
The key to low ES and SD numbers is minimal empty airspace in the case.
It’s just that simple.
So I use powders that are slow enough to achieve 100% case fill.
My 260,308 and 22-250,all savage actions and shilen barrels except the 308,and they’ve all got single digit ES and SD numbers. Using ball powders and federal mag match primers. It’s got the original savage barrel. And because I built my 260 of a model 10T 308 donor(new)so I ended up with a spare savage 308 barrel. Should make load development easy when I do swap the barrels.
I too could not get these bullets to group. just chasing my tail between powder and jump. 140 hornady eld grouped well . no issues.
Statistically note your node signs from your barrels, that's when you say it's weird that velocities aren't trying to move when you know there is a grain or more on the loads. I think it's will groups consistently. Be patient, careful and very observan
Got me thinking about playing with OAL this year with pet loads then try RDF bullets. Been wanting to order up a sampling of RDF bullets but I have plenty of 30 cal Sierra MK and Nosler CC bullets to keep me busy. The feeling towards Nosler is mutual. However, once a good load was dialed in I can shoot under one inch at 100 yards with Nosler CC bullets no problem. Better yet with a bit more concentration, discipline, and a breeze of luck.
IronAndDiesel
I can send you some of these 140 grain RDF’s if you wanted.
We can trade if you want. I’ll take some 30 cal if you’ve got some I’ve not yet tried.
Love the content, just found your page from a buddies recommendation. Would a CCI 400 be a decent substitute for the 41? I have a buttload of those. Thanks.
Thomas Gail CCI 450 is better, similar cup thickness. check it out.
Just remember that anything you put on the barrel will change the harmonics. I've seen it happen. A friend had suppressor on a Remington SPS in 308 and it shot well with factory ammo and no can. Put the can on it and it wouldn't hit a 4' X 4' piece of plywood at 100 yds even with subsonic ammo. He didn't reload, so he spent roughly between $1,200.00 and $1,800.00 for nothing.
Donald Sharpless for nothing?
Not really. If the guy would smarten up and learn to reload he’s in business.
Besides which what self respecting marksman doesn’t reload?
That’s truly nuts.
Heck I would even bet that nobody who uses a factory made cartridge is even competitive as far as match shooting in f-class and that type of match,where ammo tuning is critical.
In PRS type matches it’s less important to tune the load as much. It’s a different discipline and load tuning is less critical,however I doubt many people are using factory made cartridges.
The cost alone is prohibitive,especially when a match can consist of no less than 200 rounds shot,per day.
Sorry dude have to put u on pause. Opening Ceremonies brother!!! Stick with Hornady lol. Good luck with the 308
Are these projectiles coated? They seem much slicker than any other projectile. That coupled with the extremely high BC that these have with relatively lower MV (compared to most projectiles) I was curious if Nosler coated them in something. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance!
Tell me about the adjustment knob on your bullet seater. Just ordered the different stems for my Hornady New Dimension dies. Good stuff!
Cool topic! Maybe try .003 above and below that shortest OAL to fine tune what it likes before messing with powder charge amts. Cant wait to see what difference annealing makes
15TNar 0.003” is absolutely irrelevant and won’t have any measurable effect on the cartridge point of impact.
With the 140 grain RDF I wasn’t able to measure any point for f impact changes when tuning seating depth until I varied the length 15 thou. Less than that didn’t create any obvious point of impact changes.
So today with these kinds of projectile shape I start with a very light kiss then shorten by 20 thou and monitor velocities while monitoring group size.
When confirming the load I shoot groups of 9. 3 shot groups are a joke. Literally any rifle can fluke out and put 3 shots very close together.
Heck I’ve got a TC Dimension in 243 and 7RM.
I’ve shot 1/4” 3 shot groups with the 7RM when doing load development however it most certainly isn’t a 1/2moa gun. Even though it comes with an MOA guarantee.
I don't know why, but the nosler projectiles don't seem to run as well with H4350 out of my rifle. That said, I was able to see much better results using RL-16. With the Nosler 140gr BT Hunting I shot a .59 " group at 100 (Savage 10T SR)
I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm getting tighter groups then that out of a 20" AR10 barrel using Hornady BTHP 140s.
I wanted to get your opinions guys, I'm getting a 6.5x55 and I'm hesitating between rl19 and rl22 for good accuracy but I can't seem to find people reloading this caliber with these powder even though a lot of people say a lot of good out of these two powder. What you think?
How about making your own inductive annealing machine?
JRB, it's been awhile since we got a .357 Magnum video. Do you have one planned for anytime soon?
In my Tikka CTR shooting these is frustrating. I was getting 3 or 4 in the same hole and then 1 or 2 fliers. Hornady ELD-M bullets in 140 and 147 grain shoot around 0.5 MOA on average for 5-shots. These shot ~1 MOA due to the crazy fliers.
Have you shot the 140 grain ballistic tip Spitzer in 6.5. Or did I miss seeing it??????
Would you also look at a load data video on RL15? Would love to see what this can do on 6.5 Creedmoor
So who do you send your brass off to get annealed, didn't catch the name you said it to fast and does the person show how to do it on RUclips?? By the way you really go though your stuff really fine and explain everything really good.
raider6511 he sent it to mopar madman ( bolt action reloading) guy has another RUclips channel. And yes he has a annealing video.
Hey have a Gerard annealing machine and I anneal my precision rifle brass every time. Do you think that's an Overkill or introduces more consistency to my loads?
Stephen B usually, it should only be needed every 5-10 shootings with decent brass. But I have Lapua brass that I've shot over 15 times with no extra annealing and they still shoot great with single digit SDs.
Anneal half and leave half alone and test them with same loads
Who far do you plain on shooting this rifle/bullet
What does the Nosler manual say the OAL should be for that bullet?
My Nosler manual does not have the RDF bullets listed as they are too new.
Honestly this is your best video yet. I thought I was OCD. LOL. anyhow great video.
Time to rethink my .223 precision load's OAL...
I've noticed group depredation when using a magneto speed. Generally a bad idea to touch a barrel during firing, it can seriously affect harmonics. If I'm dual testing (velocity and grouping) I'd opt for a traditional chronograph.
That's right, moderator and/or magnetospeed changes the harmonics. But when you look for the accuracy you dont need to look at the speed. I only use the magnetospeed when I look for the max charge, or after finding my accurate load by tuning with the seating depth. Make it simple, just test one thing instead of trying to measure everything at the same time.
I have a ruger american predator in .308 and it does the something. The longer the jump the tighter the groups get.
Daniel Byrnes obviously you’re new to reloading.
I suggest buying the lee book of modern reloading volume 2.
Read it. Understand it. And keep reading until you do understand wholly and completely.
It’s the most complete instructional ever written.
Try annealing the cases on a regular basis and check the the TIR. Before testing for group size. Every thing must be as uniform as possible to start with.
RDF BULLET IS JUNK IN MY OPINION. Tried them in 4 different rifles and same results...when I got something about half decent I would think I had something then I'd just get these crazy fliers.. for no reason..JUNK JUNK JUNK!!!!!
I ordered so test samples of Nosler bullerts that very in length as much as .022, and those are not any good in an AR-15.
Mybullets shoot at ender 1/2 moa consistantly using a savage 10t 308 converted to 6.5 with shilen barrel. Use the 140 gr rdf with 3 thousands jump and 40 gr of 4350. Try it! Getting about 2700 fps with this load and hitting at 1600 yards
Several HP shooters that I shoot with do the following. They jump the 140 at .060 as per Nozlers recommendation. And their shooting great at 600 yards. I tried them in my 6.5 X 47 Lapua at .030 off. In this cartridge they shoot great out to 1000yards. The 6.5 X 47 is a more accurate cartridge to start with. If you don't believe that try looking up the wins in benchrest.
Did you say that you wanted bullet .010 jammed into the lands ?
Interested to see how this bullet will Work in the AR10 once you get it put together. At a COAL of 2.800 it will fit in a standard .308 pmag, could end up being a good combo!
AverageLRShooter there are AICS pattern mags online that allow over 2.9 inches.
The steel ones for sure have well in excess of the 2.80” minimum total length,so you should have lots of mag options
Size only about 50-60% of the case neck and watch the groups shrink. It centers the bullet to bore axis.... It should feel like seating into the lands.
The best shooters in the world always full length size. But they bump the shoulder back .002. Th case is much straighter the full length of the case. Always check the run out of each round. If they are not. 001 or less something is wrong.
i hope to see you try the 130 RDF
Hey brother love your channel I'm developing a load for my 6.5 creedmoor using 120g smk ragged holes with 42.8g h4350 and 43g h4350 however sd isn't what I want it to be what should I look at next haven't messed with seating depth
I have been reading "Competitive Reloading" by Zediker. It is filled with good tips on reloading technique. I started reading it because of a video posted on YT.
I have this nosler at .25moa at 100 yards. Have yet to chronograph or test groups at distance.
The 2.830" grouped best with 42.0gr Superformance and 140gr RDF.
Ron K I’m using superformance in my 260 and rdf pills. Savage model 10 action in an mdt chassis and a 26” 8 twist shilen.
What rifle are you using? Components?
Thank you
My 6.5 saum shoots these extremely well
What's the best load you've found so far for 6.5 creedmoor. Bullet, powder, brass, and primer. As a community we should try it in our own rifles and see if we can come up with a universal load.
heywire101 “Universal load”?
Only when each rifle is built identically,in every possible way can a “universal load” actually live up to the label.
Otherwise it’s quite simply impossible. Too many minor variances and differences for a universal load to actually be universal.
The ONLY cartridge mass producer that comes close to “universal” is federal and the Gold Medal Match line of ammo.
I’m sure there are small producers who are custom loading for shooters who know to get the highest level of consistency a load must be custom to the rifle. It’s just that simple.
If you do a little digging I’m sure you can dig up the match load hornady uses,as long as you don’t mind using a hornady bullet of course.
Why do you say 40 thousandth vs 4 hundredth? It’s a bit confusing for a simpleton like myself. Just wanted to know. Thx
After seeing these groups shrink the further seated, I'd keep going and see what happens
Salt bath annealing is super cheap to do AND highly controllable. Since you only get it to a specific temp and cannot go over you cannot over anneal the case. The level of the salt determines how high it anneals and it can be faster than the AMP machine. Here is a link for you to check out. ruclips.net/video/i8q4ER6dyaA/видео.html
That's the method I plan to go with. I haven't had to a anneal yet, but it's been my plan for awhile now. That system is only $100 plus the pot, so not bad compared to other annealers. Seems more consistent too. I would also think that the salt would be more cost effective than propane.
Thanks so much for the link! Never seen that method. Looks very nice! Appreciate the info sir! God bless!
my Hornady book calls for 2.800 max COL. I like shoot all my caliber .020 under max COL, i called it at the beginning of your video that 2.790 would be your best group. i think if you shoot 2.780 it will be even better. Good luck. Hope you prove me right .
OAL depends on what shoots the best.
Just curious is a 1in circle your shooting at?
Don't forget to do your stock on you TC Compass and 300 mag to float your barrel if you haven't done so already.
Also try group testing without all that junk hanging on the front of the barrel. I thing you will shoot smaller groups. My friends do exactly that. It affects accuracy a great deal.
I was resizing my first 22-250 case with a lee full length sizing die and I made sure to lube them up with my hornady one shot case lube and when I put the first shell in it went in fine and when I pull the ram back down the whole extractor ball and rod came out of the die and is now stuck in the case. Did I get a bad die or did I do something wrong. I just had gotten done full length sizing some 223 brass with a lee die and had no problems...
The collet holding the decapping pin wasn't tight enough. Not a big deal. Pull out the pin with some pliers and put it back in the die. Make sure you get it tighter this time.
Think It Try It alright I'll give it a try. It was the first time I used that die and didn't even know you were supposed to tighten it up, but thanks for the help!
I always feel like I'm going to strip mine before it stops slipping. It's unnerving how tight it needs to be.
When it does slip, just get the pin in the nut enough to lock it in and you should be able to pull it out. Reajust everything once it's out. That's how I do it anyway.
It is crazy how tight they need to be. Other than Berdan primed cases and a few military crimped cases, you could tighten the heck out of the collet and never look back. One final thought on the 22-250, make sure there is some lube on the first few cases on the inside of the neck/shoulder area.
My 6.5cm won't shoot a good group with the mag hanging off my barrel but with one load it will shoot a decent group but others as much as 3 inch group the gun is a tikka t3x and it likes the bullet to jump alot wont shoot close to the lans
Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that I chose to watch this instead of smooch my lady on Valentines Day.
Nosler claims 37 grains is the most accurate for h4350. is 40 really better???
To slow for distance.
You need to do a load e
Workup for you charge before doing this seating depth test. Just randomly picking 40g is not a real fair test for the bullets accuracy
Ivesy85 are you kidding me?
Check out the hundreds of videos on this channel.
The man has a very good idea of what he’s got going on at the range and on the bench,so save your breath.
How do you know he hasn’t done a pile of load development off camera?
And your comment isn’t quite accurate. I’ll leave it up to you to research exactly what part of your comment isn’t quite accurate
Match grade primers also, I forgot.
jrb, here's a vid you may be interested in concerning the creedmoor,
i guess this would help?? 6.5 Creedmoor Issues - The Real Gunsmith
What suppressor are you using now
blancs 3030 that's the same silencerco omega he has been running for a long time
Looks much shorter
Need a new scale. What should I get?
Joseph Geisert GemPro 250.
John Senuta thanks.
Seems like a lot of smoke coming from the can in this video.
dk17hmr cold humid weather
i feel the same ! don't use them very often . their line of their rifle ammo is a laugh. they are trying to invent something that is not needed , it's all hipe
Do you ever look for velocity nodes?
Load some with hybrid 100v
Can’t get the RDF’s to group and shoot for shit at 100 yards.
For the .308 it’s the same
It’s like minute of barn door..!!!
Too bad I can't find H4350 anywhere. I was lucky to even get RL17.
Operator Headspace try powder valley that was the only place I could find it.
Out of stock, no back order, but at least it's another place to watch.
Sorry bud it was the only place I could find it.
Looks like 1lb are in stock at midsouth shooters supply but they are out of stock on 8lb. They are also a good source for powders
Just ordered 6 lbs and some more primers! Amazing how fast you go through those little guys. Should be enough to get me through this month's addiction.
Needs moar powder