6.5 Creedmoor - H4350 vs IMR4350 - 143 ELD-X
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2017
- Testing Hodgdon H4350 vs IMR 4350 with the 143gr Hornady ELD-X in 6.5 Creedmoor.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RUclips content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
Love it that you admit to being a hermit, same here. Perhaps being a hermit and obsessiveness over reloading are mutually inclusive. A couple of years ago I drilled some holes on the edge of the dining room table the other day for the new reloading press when the missus was away for a few days. When she got back and noticed the holes, she went absolutely berserk, had to go and hide. She still brings it up from time to time.
I love that the majority of your videos start out with you going through the basic loading process. watching you do the same process over and over really helps my memory. You learn by doing and it seems like I am doing this when i am watching. Keep up the amazing work.
You're a machine JRB! All these good reloading videos you are pumping out, awesome job!
love your creedmoor videos. after watching I tried loading up 143 eldx with imr 4064 and imr 4895 both 35.5 grains of powder and the groups were smaller than imr 4350 totally impressed with creedmoor my axis 2 loves every load I try thanks for all you do on youtube!!!
Great shooting and great video JRB, best wishes on the sickness, get better soon.
I'm watching your 6.5CM series with interest as I just dropped my TC Compass 6.5CM into a Boyd's stock. Developing a load when the temps warm a bit is a priority. Many thanks for your efforts.
Good stuff Johnny! Get some rest and feel better!
Just yesterday started using the Hornady Microjust Seating Stem, very good piece of gear. I actually had to wait about 3 months until it became available from Midway. Very pleased with the precision and ease of seating used on a 243 Win. Watching your videos prompted me to purchase and use the microjust, so thanks a bunch!
You would be happier to just have a real competition seating die like a Forster or a Redding competition die that supports the case in a vertical position before seating. Forsters are the creators of that style seating die. They are both good, but Forsters are more reasonably priced.
I've always wondered why hodgdon/imr would muddy the waters with two different powders with the same name. Great comparison video. Keep up the good work!
Brett T. IMR used to be owned by DuPont .Those powders were around for a long time.Hodgdon bought them out and decided to keep the imr formulas for those shooters.
With the two 6.5 creedmoors I've had with h4350 had there nodes at 42.4 and 42.5. I've pushed out to 43.5 before with no signs. They both loved the 143 eld-x and they perform great on deer.
Thanks Johnny, was looking forward to this video and kind of confirms what we found with our rig as far as IMR opening up at higher charges. Take care of that cold and be well...
Hope you get better soon been some real nasty stuff going around. I bought both of the scales will give you an update when I get home to try em out.
Love the videos. I’ve come back to H4350 with the 140 ELD-M and it shoots lights out on the higher end with a little better velocity touching 2700 FPS. Good stuff!
Yup, that seems to be the classic Creedmoor load that shoots well for everyone.
Chamber chiller is pretty cool. 22:45 watch it blow the smoke out the barrel as it’s inserted. Seems to work well. And if lower temps are maintained your barrel life could increase quite some percentage of good shots. Great video. Thanks for sharing the useful data.
Thank you for this. Answered some questions I had about reloading the 6.5 CM.
Great as usual, get some rest, heal yourself. Loads can wait.
Thanks for the great Video! Get well soon brother!
My little scale started getting crazy on me. Thought it was going to just have to go in the trash. Turns out it was acting up from static. Wiped it down with a dryer sheet and now it’s good as new!!!
Great video as usual. Feel better!!
Hello, this video is a great time passer, very informative hope more to come
Thx, johnny, and get better soon!
You should make a JRB T-shirt with the quote on it "that's just good shootin brother"
Man, I wish you would go through the same load development and testing with a 28 Nosler. There's not much content out there for the 28 yet. Great videos BTW. I love your content.
Hate to hear it man, I've been sick as shit for two plus weeks now, so I feel ya. This month has sucked, I haven't been shooting once. Hell, I haven't been out of the house much in December (thankfully I work from home)
Damn good video! That gun shoots good! I use the 143 ELD-X bullets and love them. I use Hornady brass, H4350 41.5 gr. CCI primer, seated 2.843 in a tikka CTR 6.5. Shoots great.
Thanks for all of your information and techniques for accuracy in your loads! Cool!
The 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent cartridge. But my question is why is is it that several people making videos about loading for accuracy. Use the 6.5 Creedmoor as though it is the standard by wich all other 6.5 cartridges are judged by. As far as accuracy goes. There is one 6.5 cartridge that has set several accuracy records. And that is the 6.5 X 47 Lapua. What accuracy records has the 6.5 Creedmoor set. I'm not saying that the Lapua should be the only one used. But the 6.5 Creedmoor has been grossly over promoted. I am not the only one who thinks that. There is a lot of great cartridges out there. Someone should do videos of other 6.5 cartridges. This is like looking at 20 year old reruns on TV.
nice cutaway, your vids are educational and comical. keep it up.
Great video. Hope you get well soon.
Watching Sunday, can confirm.
HEY JOHNNY, you still alive.... been anticipating a new video from ya Brother. I
I know you have a busy schedule but Maaaaan I need my jrb video Fix ....
I bought the Microjust thinger for a set of Hornady 223 dies. Great for the money!
Get well soon!
I'm the one who reported a drifting issue with the little scale. Didn't realize there had been a reply until I watched this video, LOL. Responded in the other post, but a cut and paste here as well:
"JRB, I didn't think about the batteries, but I just installed some fresh ones. I'm still having the same problem, which is: once I've calibrated and zeroed (set tare) with the pan on the scale I will get anything from 0.0 to 0.2 once I remove the pan and replace it. What's also interesting is that my tare weight will vary with the pan removed (between 146.5 and -146.7 grains). I can also leave the empty pan on the scale and the reading will drift +/ .1gr just sitting there. I've tried it in several different rooms in the house, so I can't see it being a wind/draft issue."
I see that tuma benny and ktmracer358 ! are also reporting similar issues with theirs.
Thanks for doing this. I've tried using a lead sled and my groups are always much larger than when I'm holding the rifle. Be interesting to shoot a load both ways for the heck of it. Between the sled and the chrono there could be some weird harmonics going on. Thanks again.
Great channel! One of my favorites, im always watching keep up the great work! Have you ever considered taking off your magneto chrono? This may affect accuracy, interferes with barrel harmonics. Just my 2 cents.
I have the small scale and it's been totally rock solid.
41.5 with H4350 is my match load with 140 ELD'S, and it was one of the old recipes hornady put on their 140 a-max match loads a few years back. There will be another node between 42.5-43 grains if you care to run that hot, you'll gain about 60fps. One of the reasons many shooters run that high and higher is due to the original loads in hodgdon's load data that went considerable higher. RL-16 is another powder that is awesome in the creedmoor with 130-150 grain bullets.
Mine defiance with Bartlein barrel shoots so well off the 140 A-MAX match, it almost isn't worth reloading for.
That's everyone's match load! I will probably not be doing a lot of additional work with H4350 since it's hard to find and the loads are already so well known. I'll be pushing it much harder before this can is empty, though. I want to see if my primer cratering turns to piercing once the pressures get up over 60K, and H4350 is probably the "safest" way to do that since everyone and their brother has already shot it. Should be fun. RL16 is definitely in the plans...I just need to pick up a can. I've got AA4350, RL26, N160 and N550 in the plans as well. Should be fun.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench AA-4350 has always worked second best to H-4350. Having said that I do have a 300 Win Mag load that is my best load with AA-4350. It shoots under 3-inch groups at 300 yards every time. IMR 4350 can be accurate, but the velocities are so much lower than either of the other two.
Thanks for taking the time to make the videos. So far I love the 6.5 Creedmoor. I built my rifle from a new 300 dollar Savage 11 and after a new stock, new trigger, pillar and glass bed I can't believe the accuracy its showing so far. what are you using for primers?
Really loved the comparison. I was really having a hard time as to which powder to use for my 308.
Now what I'd really like to see if you can, is how Hodgdon CFE 223 in a 308 shoots with a 165gr Gamechanger.
Also a comparison between IMR4064 and IMR4166 in a 243, 308 or 30-06
“Close up glamour shots of powder graduals.” Lol!
If the markings on that die are recessed you could use the black nail polish trick? Thank you for another great vid. Been waiting on this one!!
Wow good video buddy. Wish you did more with the Hornady 140 BTHP Match. Maybe best powder to use with highest velocity, low SD, and best group.
I did purchase the cheaper scale and it has always drifted from the day i got it. I will try different batteries and see if that helps.
I also bought the same hornady dies for 6.5 grendel awhile ago and really liked them.
and hope you feel better real soon.
The shiny spot on the brass head is caused by a rough bolt surface when locking and unlocking it.
Cheers
Always great content !
Thanks for all your hard work. I'd much rather watch your videos on Sunday than watch football. LOL
Love the videos you do! Keep up the solid work! So, I bought me some star line brass however I could only find the large primer pockets. I love to follow all the things you do because it take the guess work out of the process for me. The only thing I’m not certain on is my selection of primer. I picked up cci 250 large riffle magnum. Would you recommend those? If not what direction would you go?
Love your videos, keep up the good work! I also have a new Thompson Center compass in 6.5 Creedmoor. I've looked, but did you do a video on using Alliant Reloader 16 yet, with 140 bullets?
On that H4350 I would love to see you use a long drop funnel, see if you can cram a little more in without compressing it. Just my 2 cents Johnny. I am very interested to see you pushing it a little farther. Maybe a long drop funnel would help IMR4350 as well?
Great video, very informative!
Get well soon.
I have a lot of IMR4350 because that is the best powder I have found for my 243 Ackley. From what I have read, H4350 is a safe bet for the 6.5 Creedmoor so I picked up a pound today for testing. I hope i have similar success to what you are having.
I jumped on the Creedmoor bandwagon over three yrs ago, all of my friends said it would be a flash in the pan. And factory ammo was hard to come by. (No pun intended) I have loads of data on this cartridge in all types of bullets, powders, primers, and most importantly weather.
I currently am using a Christensen BA Tactical in 6.5 Creedmoor Harris Bi-pod, Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27.
The best load I have found for consistency in all weather and temps is the 147gr. ELD M with 42gr. of H4350 Federal 210 Primers either match or regular (made no difference) My SD are around 2.2-3. Hornady brass trimmed to 1.915. Forster press, Hornady full length dies adjusted to bump size. This is consistent just under .5 MOA. Velocity is 2805 at 50-105 degrees. 2997 at 28-50 degrees.
Consistent cold bore hits at 1500 yds and under. Anything over 1500 consistency drops dramatically best I can do is 3 out of ten at 1776 yds. Well beyond effective range, I do it just for the lols. Gets right down to after 1500yds grab a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win. Mag.
I currently have all data on IMR4350, Reloader 17, Reloader 16, H4350 Using bullets ranging from 129-147gr Berger, Nosler, Hornady, bullets.
Brass data is now under development. Love my results with Hornady Brass. With this warm of load good for only 4 reloads due to loose primer pockets. Currently trying SIg, Starline, Nosler brass. I have used Lapua and found the small rifle primer does not efficiently burn under 50 degrees and over 40.5 grains of powder. If any questions feel free to ask.
IMR 4350 is one of the worst powders due to temperature stabilization. Ten degrees will change velocity of up to 15fps especially once it drops below 80 degrees. SD opens up dramatically also.
Thank you Johny for great videos. What hand-held primer tool are you using in this video ? Thanks.
It seems that the groups are tightening on at a certain case fill. When you hit about max case fill on the H4350 the group was tight and same with the IMR 4350. Once you went to a compressed charge the groups opened up.
Thank you for the reminder concerning the Berger 135s. More expensive with that J-4 Jacket, yes. More accurate, yes! Hornady ELD-X good, yes. Getting the job done! REST!!
felicitaciones ! gran trabajo !
You make the best reloading content! You have helped me exponentially with reloading, I purchased a lee press based on your recommendation! By the way they have changed their hand primer you might wanna check it out! Anyway thanks for you content.
Sincerely, Caleb.
I sent my Howa 1500 off to get threaded for a compensator last March or so. The Gunsmith is amazing, but somehow didn’t get my number and I’ve been busy with grad school so it took me a long time to get back to him (it was ready in July). But I finally got it back. That’s a long way of saying I haven’t loaded for 6.5 Creedmoor in a very long time. I have Lapua small primer brass and I JUST got some Lapua Scenar 139 grain. All the Berger Target Hybrids that I was developing with before are of course not in stock anywhere, so I took a chance and got 1000 scenar while I could find them. I was lamenting not having any 4350 (either IMR or Hodgdon) and about to settle and load Varget (which some people have had decent luck with but it’s not ideal based on everything I’ve read). So it’s past midnight and I decided to double check my powder stock to see if I had anything better… and I found 8lbs of H4350. Thanks past version of me for forethought and having my back! 😊 and thanks to you for doing this video! I love the data.
I've always used a tenth grain scale. I'm satisfied with sub 3/4 moa accuracy. I'm sure I could get more but I'm not sure it's worth the time. I completely understand those who do chase after the greatest accuracy and SD numbers they can get I just don't have OCD to that level....yet
I had a question, sorry if you have already addressed in a previous video. Was just wondering why the decision to go with the small primer brass? Thanks for your time and really enjoy the videos!
Feel better sir.
Great channel, thanks. Wouldn't the chrono hanging off the barrel change the accuracy, or have you found that it does not? Thanks for the video, I'll subscribe.
Hi Johnny.
Great video, learned a lot.
Question though. What would be the min and max charge be using 143gr eld-x bullets, IMR 4350 powder and Lapua small primer brass or can I use the same charge as in the video?
Thanks.
My savage model 12 LRP prints solid half minute groups with the 143 eld-x in the precision hunter line. working up my first handloads for it and will test them this weekend.
I just got a savage 12 lrp... I had good luck with the 140 eld... do you have better luck with the 143s...
Love your videos. I would love to see how the 178gn ELD-X performs in your Tikka 308. I am thinking about using it in my Ruger American Predator 308. I have been reloading for cost savings for about 40 years and didn't realize how much I didn't know until I started watching your videos.
For being sick, you're able to keep up the ol' JRB Blather,Blather,Blather. :)
Johnny 12/20/17 looking for you. Hope your feeling better! Like your videos! Does your Grand Pa watch and critique you work?
Johnny you should get a RCBS Chargemaster Lite. Best auto measure on the market. Save a lot of time. Every once in awhile it may get an overcharge but very seldom. All you need to do is put it back in the hopper and do it over to get it right. I use to do what you are doing and after researching decided on the RCBS Chargemaster Lite because it is the most accurate and does not throw very many if any over charges like the competition. It's all because of their trickler being better than the rest even better than their most expensive Chargemaster.
Good shooting combo. Nice performance on both powders. Back before 2000, I said a lot of times that if I couldn't load it with IMR 4350, I didn't need it. H-4350 looks to be a touch better even.
So H4350 test first and then I4350 after barrels was dirt so it doesn’t compare. Trying clean barrel and then test I4350 first after that H4350
Even AA-4350 outperforms IMR-4350 honestly. Not saying you can't get accurate loads from IMR-4350 just saying they will all be of lower velocity than the others H-4350 is the king and AA-4350 is the runner up in 4350's. Now IMR-4350 beats a newcomer Shooters World 4350 that even shoots slower loads than the other 3.
I packed in 44.0gr of H4350 behind a 129gr ELD Match. Slightly compressed at 2.800", but nothing crazy. Grouped a hair under an inch in my buddy's RPR. Definitely worth cranking up the heat a little bit on your loads.
I actually have both, and the little scale is still solid, the large one does not drift however I get the same thing + or - .06 gr. However I have been using the Deluxe Digital Scale from Powstro and it is .05 accuracy and seems for me to be the go to for speed and a bit more precision.
Tango Bravo Zulu link to that scale?
haha "I avoid human contact at all costs"... hey man you've got some cool vids thank you for making them! what are your opinions on reloading software like QUICKload ?? I have been thinking about purchasing the software to fine tune some loads- I was wondering if you've ever considered using fancy shmancy stuff like that software?? or do you just stick to the books. also quick suggestion is to try some Peterson brass ive got nothing but great things to say about their brass if your looking for something that's match quality that in MY OPINION is better than Lapua.... also do you have a video about case trimming?
I never take anyone that uses a "chamber cooler" seriously.. but the "we didn't blow our face off" comment made me subscribe
I have found that 4350 like hotter charges with many of the cartridges I have used it in mostly in 3006 hunting loads and some in 7mm08 with heavy bullets and in several different rifles and usually a full case of 4350 shined the best. But just what I have found thus far thanks for the info Johnny and hope you feel better I know how you feel like sh**
Have you thought about putting your best 143eldx load against horady's factory 143eldx load?
Hi Johnny, I just bought my first 6.5 creedmoor rifle and I do my own reloading. I was told that they are having problems with headspace. I was wondering if you know how to find out what is the right headspace gauge without buying a ton of gauges. Thank you
I really like the full length die in the Hornady set; however, the seating die crushes my brass every once in a while. I've never had this happen even with the Lee seater.
Good video!
Have you tried shooting the exact same loads without the magneto speed to see if groups tighten up? I would think that weight dangling at the end of the barrel has to effect the harmonics considerably.
I recently bought a savage axis 2 6.5 CM. which i consider a budget gun for sur I'm shooting .32 inch groups at 100 yrds with 143 grain eldx and 43.2 grains of superformance in hornady brass . As well I'm smacking a 6 x 10 inch steel rectangle target at 600 yrds consistently it goes to show u don't need to buy a 2000 dollar gun and use high end components to group well
My was waoaw scale has started to drift also I was going to switch battery's and keep an eye on it
So, two years ago, you had covid!
I finally got sub 1" 10 shot groups out of my 13o gr Nosler RDF bullets with Lapur brass, CCI 450 primers and 43.6 gr of Reloader 16. The overall length that worked in my Ruger Precision Rifle is 2.778.
I have found 2 grains difference between these powders. Add 2 grains to H-4350 then these powders well be the same.and you will get the same results on the paper across the board . No pressure problems if you take care on the top ends
When loading for precision shooting, how many firing cycles before you anneal the cases?
I've had to re-tare my scale several times. I look down and it shows a weight of 3-4 grains when it should be zero. I re-tare and re-check my last couple of rounds.
Johnny, slightly off topic. I watched a few of your other videos on finding a filler for subsonic ammo. How about a video on using talcum powder as filler?
Good vid.. I think you should try to do a Bob's bullet video with Tac!
Any thought to sorting the bullets by weight to really see how accurate you can make the groups?
Two things, one guy was loading powder using a vibrating toothbrush on the case and the powder dropped in the case a lot. More room. Also can u load 147grain 6.5 creedmore bullets? Cannot find info to load anywhere. Keep it up very cool.
Lol I'm a hermit too.
Hello from western ky! What area in ky are u from ? Love your vids !
I am up in the NE corner near Ashland. Glad you're enjoying the vids!
Just out of curiosity, if your scale has so much variation why not just use a powder measure with a baffle like the uniflow? I find it to be much faster and it is very accurate with shorter stick powder like benchmark. I know some of the powders chop but it's still pretty accurate.
Great videos. Just wish they were more condensed.
How do you know how far you bump the shoulder back? How do you measure it? The dies I have used all say to lower the die into the press to where it just touches the ram at it's highest point. I never did it any different.
It would be interesting to test if weighing out every charge improves standard deviation or accuracy. A test you could do is take a few really good shooting loads and weigh out charges to .1 of a grain, .02 of a grain, and throwing charges with a powder measure. That way you know if you need to obsess over getting powder charges just perfect.
Got a quick question if you can run the hornady 129 grain bulets with IMR 4350 @ around 2700 curious to see the groups
Start load 41.4 grains
41.8
42.2
42.6
43.0 grains max load data
Just a quick q, When you go from small primer to LG primer Brass, what does it do to the load? and vice versa ?
I’m a little confused. The hodgdon website says that h4350 powder and the eld-x bullet should have a federal 210m large rifle match primer. And his is a star line small rifle primer (CCI 450). Can someone explain to me what is right or would work better?