Which Legions WIN? First impressions of the Legion Inductii units in the Horus Heresy.
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Pete and Jason discuss the difference in quality between the Legion Inductti units in games of Horus Heresy.
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What Inductii are you looking forward to seeing on the table top?
In reply to the NL power axes hitting at I10, I don’t think it’s an oversight because their rules specify that they must swap all of their chainswords for the shank. As the unit entry for despoilers says “swap their chainsword for a power weapon,” they don’t have a chainsword to swap, so it’s ineligible :)
Really want to try out Inductii for my Salamanders; very cool fluff about them. Sergeant with WS5 is very cool, so probably arm him with a power lance for I5. 😁 Question: the shots of each Legion that you're placing, are these the heraldry of the Inductii?
@@Dreamzkape yes was grabbed from the original source but you’ll be able to use any heraldry for sure!
I run my SoH inducti next to a dreadnought to get that 6” bubble
good stuff, thanks guys for making this :)
don't know if it was posted earlier, prepared timestamps for my gaming groups so throwing it in here:
2:34 - Dark Angels
5:22 - Emperor's Children
8:21 - Iron Warriors
11:40 - White Scars
15:15 - Space Wolves
18:56 - Imperial Fists
21:50 - Night Lords
26:19 - Blood Angels
28:24 - Iron Hands
32:43 - World Eaters
34:51 - Ultramarines
37:04 - Death Guard
39:59 - Thousand Sons
43:36 - Sons of Horus
46:37 - Word Bearers
48:43 - Salamanders
51:34 - Raven Guard
54:41 - Alpha Legion
I think you've rated the Dark Angels Inductii fairly but I'll break it down:
- You lose Stormwing (+1BS) but this is offset by the Volkite Chargers being +1S (+1S is usually ever so slightly better than +1BS)
- The Volkite Chargers are 15" Assault 2 versus Bolters are 24" Rapid Fire (arguably a fair trade)
- You lose Fury of the Legion but have Deflagrate instead (arguably a fair trade)
it's also worth considering the following:
- The lack of Hexagrammaton sub-type will exclude them as an option from most of the Dark Angels Rites of War
- Bayonets are no longer an option and Chainswords are unfortunately expensive but these are a close quarters unit...
- Last but not least, Volkite is cool.
Had a bit of an idea after reading some of the rights of war. The Serpent’s Bane RoW allows you to forward deploy upto three battle line units at the start of the game. Could be interesting to chuck a few blobs of inductii close to squishy marine blobs or on objectives at the start of the game?
One of the best things about the Alpha Legion rule is that it's a great way to start a new legion and be able to get your first few new units on the board in a meaningful way.
the SoH one, you run the black reaving, then your reavers are line, and you run a buddy squad of inductii to act as meat sheilds and they charge a enemy unit to proc black reaving, for the reavers, who sweep in gaining rage 2, and obliterating anything that survived the inductii charge
Thanks for making a rundown of all the legions.
80 Alpha Legionnaires flicking you off. LOL
Strongly disagree on the Word Bearers. Corrupted itself is good. It makes a unit into a psuedo-daemon. Corrupted units gain Fear 1, are Instant Deathed by Force or Psychic focus weapons, are immune to Fear, auto pass Regroups, cannot choose to fail Morale for Our Weapons Are Useless, and most importantly, when they fail morale, they don't Fall Back, instead they take D3 Wounds with no saves or Damage Mitigation. Also can only be joined by other Corrupted units or Daemon units. So, once they're stuck in, they're there until they die. It's great. No Sweeping Advances wiping the rest of your squad. No worries about running off objectives or the board from shooting. Great rule overall. So why is the Inductii rule bad? Because any Word Bearers unit that's Infantry or a Dreadnought can be upgraded to be Corrupted for 25 points. It's a steep price, but the rule is worth it. Between Corrupted and the Legion trait, you don't need to take vexilla. I literally always upgrade my Tacticals and Despoilers with it. So, you could take an inductii that can't have apothecaries and may become corrupted with some other rules, or you could take a despoiler squad with an apothecary that starts the game already Corrupted.
5 mins in, and I have to say I'm so jealous of those Dark Angels volkite tacticals. I run Iron Hands and lean into exotic weapons where possible... breacher units with chargers, that sort of thing. I bounced around an idea for a custom RoW that reverted to early Crusade allowing basically exactly this. Would love to be able to run them, or even Tac Support with them if they had Line or were remotely viable. Ah well, c'est les règles.
Something I found out about Iron Warriors Inductii is that they don't count as part of your compulsory troops choices. So I usually add Inductii after adding 2 normal Tactical squads first.
For Alpha Legion Inductii: have them in a list with Dynat as Warlord so you have 20-60 right outside the enemy deployment to blockade them in their DZ for, realistically, the first 2 turns of the game.
Thats using your head brother
Everyone looses when the Inductii aren't Inductii. Some interestingly strong ones, though.
Hard disagree on the IW one. My targetting is in the hands of my opponent and you want to pay to upgrade these guys with shrapnel AND lose a FNP to ignore something most people are typically passing anyway. Ok as a tech choice into your local Night Lords player, I guess? But beyond that, not worth the paper they're printed on.
Regarding the Thousand Sons Inductii: If you lose the sergeant you lose the ability to use the Arcana completely (this is true of all Thousand Sons units) so you'll never need to worry about the lower squad LD. I've used them several times in ZM and being able to punch through 3+ save at rapid fire range through weight of fire is really good.
In addition the inductii Arcana is arguably more useful on a tactical squad than any of the standard arcana.
Yes the additional perils is bad but that speaks to the wider problem with Thousand Sons and psychic rules #CurseYouAndyHoare
So Pete was right, you cant equip Power Weapons on the Night Lords Induci they replace their chainswords with killers blades. So they cant take extra Power Weapons at all. The sarge even has to swap out his bolt pistol to upgrade his weapon as well since he cant switch out his killers blade. (Jason)
only his chainsword. a legion despoiler sergeant may exchange his BOLT PISTOL however for any off these options. Heavy chainsword, charnabal weapon, power fist, lighting claw, or power weapon (any character with power weapon has access to night lords armory) even a power fist upgraded to an Escaton power claw for 25pts
Glorious vid guys!!! My first thought when I read the Alpha Legion rule was actually to paint 10 guys in most of the legions, I must admit I’m still pretty psyked about it….
Thanks Henrik! Haha get painting!
Or paint them rainbow 😊
Only ten? As one of the Many you must make a 20 man squad composed of 17 legions and the colors of the 2nd and 11th by using the following coloring method (redacted). Then follow with a Blackshield to round out the numbers to 20. Thats how you create as the ancient terrans called them “power rangers” in terms of color palettes in one squad…
I'm fascinated by the Alpha Legion Inductii as part of an shenanigans-heavy strategy. I don't mind that they're support because I've got my eye on Headhunters for compulsory then I load up on units you either can't shoot for a turn (Inductii/Saboteur/Callidus) or give me a VP if you shoot 'em (Mobius allies) then plop a Forge Lord & some Thallax in the back to keep infiltrators at arms length while I set up areas of difficult/dangerous terrain with grav & phosphex or block angles of advance with deathstorm drop pods. Or I ditch the Mobius config, pick up Macrotek allies & straight-up move terrain around. Don't ask me if any of that's a good idea to score points, kill models & win games though, I may just be outsmarting myself.
Won't work dude. Headhunters in leviathal aren't compulsory troops as far as the row is written so you'd still need to take two compulsory units as well. It's more a way to free up fast attack slots than replacing tactical squads with headhunters
@@mojotheaverage Haha figures. It was an on-the-fly find & replace for FotA/Contemptors because I took a long look in the mirror & decided to be a bigger man. Though I'm not sure "FotA with Extra Steps" is any better than just straightforwardly bringing a whack-ton of Dreadnoughts.
Blood Angel rules 2/10. Fluff 14/10 i will build and paint a squad of MK3 in old revenant legion colors just to run these in mortalis. Round a corner to see your pal half eaten and the blood angel knows your name. 😮
Sorry for the double post but i think NL Inductii is something that needs to be tested. I have a feeling those two dudes attacking with their killer knives might secretly be amazing. Think about it this way, the only weapon you really need to ignore armour in a challenge is a Power Axe. So short of that, getting breaching with a strong number of attacks, for cheap. Sounds pretty decent
Never apologies for double post! Thanks for your input. I think you’re right about the Night Lords.
I believe the space wolves inductii taking combat shield is optional. It says they "may" take shields.
well u do a list of wut consulsare wirth takking & in which legons plz
17:54 it makes sense that they don't have their bolt pistol. These are vikings in power armour. They don't have time to teach them what a gun is or how it works.
Ngl, generally I can't see myself taking inductii in any faction i play. Conceptually they're cool, though i think a lot of them don't make sense as inductii as they seem more experienced in many ways than standard marines. But i can't see myself taking what are basically slightly skewed tactical squads if they aren't compulsory rather than spending the same points on something more interesting or just better
Looking forward to trying out DA volkite tacticals! Only issue is you can’t run them with most of the DA RoWs
Same! Wish there was a way to advance and fire but this seems like a great unit for cheap. It makes sense that these hastily recruited troops who aren't invested in the legion culture wouldn't be permitted into the Hexagramaton at least not right away. That knowledge I'd privileged!
For the Dark Angels, you shoot twice at 3+ S5 at 15inch, while with Bolters you would shoot once at 2+ S4 at 24inch and twice at 2+ S4 at 12 inch (+1 shoot if you dont move)
To me it is a bit worse than the bolters, it can have rare occasions where it's interesting, i would put them in the bad tiers rule wise, but getting up in the average tiers for the rule of cool, cause even if i think it's not as good imo, its not terrible either, and volkites are a cool weapon
The Dark Angels Induction are better than you guys think. When you compare them to a tactical support squad then you begin to understand. They are 40 points cheaper right off the bat. And they gain line!! Sure they lose the hexagrammaton special rule. But honestly it's not that big of a loss. Especially since the DA RoW are relatively weak. So you're really not losing out on much.
I dont think you are wrong, I just struggle a bit to see where you are going to use them. They are good, but are those extra points better spent on something else ? They cant fill a compulsary slot, cant go in some ROWs. I mean if you are alreayd taking a vulkite support squad, these guys are your jam. I do think they are good, but ... I struggle a bit to see how they can be used . (Jason)
This is back and forth just sort of what made me land on Good but not great (Just FYI)
@@meatlaser " I mean if you are already taking a volkite support squad, these guys are your jam"
Pretty much this!
Say you're near the end of your list, and you've got 300ish points to fill. And you want some more line units. And you already have your 2 compulsories. These guys are going to be a very efficient and competitive pick. I like using 2 10 man volkite or flamer teams in rhino's to act as objective busters in my Iron Warriors list. They keep the heart of legion rule I believe, so you can get them to camp the objective after you've taken it.
I'd say like most of these units, they aren't auto includes. But they are a solid option.
Only thing is, the tactical support marines are worse than tacticals to begin with imo - I think bang average is a fair rating
i quite disagree, with 15inches you're on average certainly gonna shoot once per game with assault 2, but touch on a 3+. While with Bolters you're gonna shoot 2 to 3 turns at 24inches, you are rapid2 (so shoot twice at 12inches), but you touch on a 2+ (thanks to stormwing hexagrammaton). And you're also losing fury of the legion, which would add one shot with the bolter if you dont move.
I disagree about the Blood Angels Inductii. It's not great, maybe, but all you need is to beat one unit and destroy or force the fall back. You now have a cheap unit in the enemy ranks with Fear 1. Unlike Night Lords, there's nothing I see here that prohibits power weapons. I may be wrong, but I don't think the Inductii have to be the only unit in that assault, so you can pair them with a nastier unit and bully a smaller one.
I've seen people saying that losing Spite of the Legion is too much, but I've never been able to get Spite off anyway. I'm more likely to be focusing my pinning efforts on the units I want my elite units to kick in. So losing that, and the possibility of sweeping, to gain the chance to cause Fear? It's worth 10pts to Night Lords, I'd at least say it's not bad here.
As soon as I saw the rumours for this drop, I immediately thought that this is the place for Death Company. A big blob of them as a forlorn hope, they're not that scary so have the chance to get there while your opponent focuses on Crimson Paladins, Dawnbreakers, etc
Dude make it work for sure! I wanna see it now!!
With the DG ones I might just take a blob of 20, take 4 flamers, and ignore their special rule. No one likes charging into 4 alchem flamers.
World eaters 32:44
Nah, sorry man, i was thinking about that too, but no, NL Inductii can’t swap their chainswords for power axes if they don’t even have chainswords. But thinking about it, it’s not too shabby.
Yeha I double checked it after the video and put a comment in there. I think the real strange thing is the Sarge has to swap out his bolt pistol to get a Power Weapon.(Jason)
I dont know if I agree with imperial fist. Its Deff a good thing, But I really dont think 2-4 shots of pinning are really worth it. Maybe your meta cant roll 7s but Ive hardly ever been able to rely on pinning to get work done. If the whole unit had pinning itd be one thing, but needing one of the 2 shots to rend kinda ruins it for me
Ahh the doctrines of us many continues to send our foes into disarray…
The DG inducti are just so uninspired. They don't really change much to allow for creative or interesting build-arounds or additional strategies. It's merely a points discount if you were taking more than 2 tac squads. Instead of buying an apothecary you get a dollar store save. The flamers aren't even that enticing since SGT and Apothecary in a normal squad can already take them without giving up a bolter shot even.
So thematically, yeah they do feel like cannon fodder good for the meat grinder at best. It just stinks that they didn't create any interesting army building scenarios.
Combat and Stormshields count as melee weapons, Breacher Shields do not thats why it is noted in the rules for it.
I could be wrong though, it has been a while.
Ooo I will totally check, The wolves with Combat Sheilds and chain axes would be awesome then. (Jason)
Just double checked, they just let you use a second weapon to get a bonus attack they dont count as one saddly.
@@meatlaser Ah, thanks for checking.
inductii are weird to me, their design philosophy goes against what I envisioned them as. imo they should lose support squad and instead of just being different side-grades to normal tactical marines they should have obvious drawbacks (aka the rules should be more in line with the blood angels inductii) but cheaper to compensate, to represent how these guys were used to bulk out the legions in the later years. maybe they can be compulsory but not scoring or can be overriden? idk
Hello sorry to bother you i am thinking to build a night lords army
Nightlords are awesome, I have a ton of fun playing mine. Its mostly drop assault stuff with long range back up firepower. We have a Nightlords video here if you have not checked it out: ruclips.net/video/bRjBBnCVMRQ/видео.html (Jason)
World eaters also get an extra attack with the ravening madmen rule
No, that's only for "Berserker" upgrade for ICs that gives +1 attack AND Ravening Madmen rule...
@MkZuO12345 ah I see, thanks for the clarification. Shame really, that would push them further up the usefulness table
General thoughts about the idea of Inductii:
These are troops who are supposed to have less training and experience. There are several ways to show this in a tabletop game with one having worse statlines and thus less point costs. As far as I can tell from reviews this isn´t the case and it is a good decision because this approach while being sensible would also be boring from a gameplay perspective.
So how to do it in another way? First step is to consider that they should be inferior to the original troop choice of which they are a template of at the end of the creation process. The devs have done a good job in taking away in all cases valuable perks and adding new ones to the unit profile which was also the way of creating characters in Fallout video games (perks grant advantages and disadvantages at the same time).
Have they achieved their goal in all cases? Nope. I will explain my reasoning just with my chosen Legion to avoid a wall of text:
Iron Hands: They lose two valuable perks (HotL & Characters can´t join the unit) and gain two new ones (Heavy and those "unreliable bionics" ). The latter doesn´t even grant you a boon most of the time (4/6 chance to lose the lottery) so it is a good implementation.
If this SR would have stopped now then everything would have been fine and the new unit could exist as a lesser version of the original as intended for Inductiis but nope they have to give them the Phosphex Bomb. Why would you trust a less experienced unit with exotic/rare wargear? AFAIK Sgt. of Tacticals can´t choose this type of upgrade. Lose the bomb and they are okay.
Some good points for sure
I think the iron warriors are bad honestly you always prefer standard tactical with fury and heart. And i think the space wolves are Better then average.
Boys, the Ultras one is event better, inexorable is any moral or pinning check is unmodded with the exception of fear. It’s 10/10.
I don't think it ignores nightfight as well
These units are all pretty cool, but they aren't inductii at all and it makes no sense that they're marketed as such. It's basically a thematic special unit for each legion which doesn't fit the lore. The DA inductii make more sense as unification wars terrans, for example.
I'm ok with getting these units, but I absolutely detest that they're called inductii which means we now aren't going to get actual inductii.
In the proces of building a force of Fists myself, gonna be having 2 Inductii squads backing up my 5 contemptor and 1 castra ferrum in the first 1500 points
Is it competative? Hell no
Is it gonna be fun? Youd better bloody believe it!
Sorry, but you can’t run Fury of the Ancients and claim not to have a competitive list 😂