At the start of the video, I was thinking I likely knew what was coming. The moment you showed the drawing, I knew exactly what you were going to say. Having theorized about this is exactly why I’m building my pressure release valve into the inlet of my cyclone. I’m really glad I didn’t go with the design everybody else shows without having given it much thought. It just makes so much more sense to not put it in the lid, but instead put it at the cyclone entry, that I’m extremely surprised no one seems to talk about it. I’m also building my own valve on a large M6 thread to better control the pressure than those small ones offer. The entire system will be non-damaging as I’m using PVC pipes, so if in the future I add structural support to the barrel, I can just take it off without any damage. I’m glad you shared this!
Thanks for your feedback.The little blue PRV has opened my Eyes to dust collection and how technical it can get. Unlike you I did go with what I saw on RUclips and then found out each setup needs its own Well thought out valve.not everyone agrees that the “blue “valve isn’t the best option but I’m sure that it works on their system or maybe they don’t notice that it’s slightly open most of the time. Either way I wouldn’t be happy unless it’s working properly.You’re doing the right thing building your own as the spring plays a big part.
I had a similar problem with the fiber barrel of my Oneida Dust Deputy 4" cyclone collapsing when I inadvertently completely blocked the suction hose. I reinforced the barrel with wooded struts but Oneida after seeing me mention the problem in my review reached out and offered me a new barrel under warranty which was an unexpected surprise. I solved the problem by using the Rocker Dust Right nozzle and hose system. Both the 4" handle connector and smaller 'click to connect' hose have relief gates which I keep partially open as needed to prevent the barrel from imploding. Based on that experience in your situation I would suggest installing the relief valve somewhere near the end of your piping so in the event the path to the tool you are using gets totally blocked the valve will open to prevent collapse. You had the right idea, you just put the value in the wrong place for it to be effective.
You’re a smart guy Charles! I agree that the valve needs to be on each hose because of the deviation in pressure according to the hose diameter and tool. The sander is the worst but I have the same feature on my 50mm hoses, it’s a ring that can open slightly to alleviate the pressure but it was not enough for the Cam Vac. The solution would be to put an adjustable PRV on each hose that can be set according to each pressure requirement but the thought of doing that makes no sense when I can just make my bin stronger.
The excessive low pressure (vacuum, suction, or whatever) near the collection bin arises from restricted air flow caused by the long lengths of small-diameter, corrugated hoses. To get to the root of the problem, use larger diameter piping and hoses, and avoid the corrugated stuff wherever possible. Keep the lengths to a minimum. Four-inch PVC drain pipe is far better for long runs.
thanks for your explanation. Is it an idea to put the pressure relief valve on the transparent suction tube? I mean the tube that you mounted on the wall.
So probably this pressure valve was wrong parameter. It has to open just when system is clogged..not during normal operation. I think you have to add stronger spring there. What do you think?
I agree, it was very sensitive. The spring is too weak and my canvas was to strong. I also found using the sander and thicknesses would restrict the air flow and cause the valve to open. My solution was to strengthen the collection bin and do away with the valve. It works better for me.
Hello. Thanks for the video. Its very relevant, as i am trying to figure out if i am gonna do the prv or not. So basicly your walls didnt collapse after you removed it? Bud wasnt that why you made the prv in the first place? Was it not the ssme bucket that collapsed? Could you also tell me why you use the seperator, rather then just have the vacum beeing attahced direct to drilled holes in the top of the lit? Thanks✌️✌️✌️✌️
Hi, yes the bin would still collapse without the PRV and that’s why I reinforced the bin walls with extra layers of aluminium sheets. The idea is similar to the rings on a wine barrel but the rings are on the inside.Putting the hoses in the top of the lid directly is a DIY version of the Cyclone separator. The collection bin becomes the separator. I bought one because it looked like a more efficient product at separating dust based on a review I watched on YT. If you have to install a PRV try to keep it outside your cyclone separator.
@@DogdadDIY also, i wonder if you van tell me the tickness you used on the aluminum reinforcing strips. I tested my own 30liter plastic barrel today, with a drilled hole in the mid, and i got my other hole on the outside of the lit, and after testing, its clocked up, because i include some bolts of hair/sawdust, to see the reaction. And holy fuck it collapsed in on itselfe. Was very hard to bend it back out, so now i need this reinforcing pieces, or a presure valve. Im tempted to try the presure valve, since i have the parts, but now i read some comments on placements. Its seems as the prv should be located on the side, rather then on the top, because it will relieve tension on the side of the tornado effect id assume.. however, i am not sure.. also my top hole for the powertool vacum hose, is actually pointing straigh down, and prop to close to the center stream of the shop vacum hole, so i suspect that optimal setup, would be pointing the powertool inserts in an angle, so it ejects the dust on outer edge of the bucket, as it will neathly turn, and fall down, rather then beiing sucked up into shop vacum, in the eye of the storm… any comments on my mindf… :)? Thanks✌️
Hi think I understand your set in terms of hose set up on your cyclone. It sounds like your inlet and outlet is in the bin with the dust. Personally I like my cyclone on top of my bin. I also had a plastic bin before and I had to reinforce it which is why I use a metal bin now. The stronger the better. The aluminium I used was some scrap I had laying around from a project and it’s a aluminium/perspex mix called Alubond or aluminium composite sheet. If I was to use the PRV , I would use it on the ducting outside of the cyclone and bin. It will do the same job but can NEVER cause problems if it wasn’t working correctly.
I have the same vac and had a similar problem. The cannister is pressurized and when you reduce the hose width it increases the pressure. Don’t use any hose under 2.5”. That helped me.
That's interesting ,I use 2" hose for sanders and all my hand tools because they all attach easily.I don't know how to fit a 2.5" hose to them but you're right,I feel very little suction on those tools.
Ive got a camvac extractor and was thinking about adding a Centec cyclone but was concerned that it might affect overall performance due to it reducing from 100mm to 63mm. Do you think that is has affected the performance of your system at all? Regarding the pressure release valve - how did you finally resolve that? I assume you didn't just leave the tape there because you are likely to have another collapsed bin in future! Enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍
Thanks! The Centec cyclone feels better designed to me and it comes with a bigger opening the 63mm unlike the cheaper ones which are 50mm and it has an extra flue to filter fine dust (Rag'n bone brown does a great review on it).As for power reduction ,it's inevitable,If like me you have your whole shop on one system then you'll have many pipes and branches affecting airflow .with my small setup I don't notice a reduction. I have just left the tape there haha because I have reinforced the drum and it's holding fine .
That dust collector moves MUCH MORE air than the tiny cyclone or small diameter hoses can handle. In other words, the dust collector sucks all the air out of the drum. At that point, there is not enough air coming through the small hoses and tiny cyclone to provide the appropriate load, so the motor basically burns up. Also, with virtually all the air sucked out, atmospheric pressure will cause some drums (mainly plastic or cardboard drums) to collapse. The pressure relief valve reacts to the LOW air pressure inside the drum, and opens - AS IT SHOULD!!! - to allow air in, equalizing the inside air pressure to the outside atmospheric pressure, which prevents destruction of the drum. The pressure relief valve did not destroy your dust collector, YOU did! Do not blame the tool, blame the operator!
Yes we know how it works. My video is about why it didn’t work for my setup and the bottom line is the spring on the valve was not strong enough for My CamVac. A good example is when Sanding , my sander restricts the airflow which will inevitably force the valve open.I’ve tried different springs but decided it’s quicker and easier to just reinforce my bin .
@@DogdadDIY A dust collector moves FAR more air than a sander’s small dust port can handle. Tools with small ports should be used with a smallish wet/dry vacuum (shopvac), not a dust collector, not even a bigger shopvac.
In a perfect world we would all love to Have the perfect amount of suction on every tool but in my case MONEY and SPACE is an issue which is why I've chosen Practicality over Perfection and why I think most workshops compromise and have one dedicated dust extractor on a Ducting system.I could be wrong and I'm always eager to learn so If you have made a video or are planning one on this subject please send me a link. Thanks for the feedback
At the start of the video, I was thinking I likely knew what was coming. The moment you showed the drawing, I knew exactly what you were going to say. Having theorized about this is exactly why I’m building my pressure release valve into the inlet of my cyclone. I’m really glad I didn’t go with the design everybody else shows without having given it much thought. It just makes so much more sense to not put it in the lid, but instead put it at the cyclone entry, that I’m extremely surprised no one seems to talk about it. I’m also building my own valve on a large M6 thread to better control the pressure than those small ones offer. The entire system will be non-damaging as I’m using PVC pipes, so if in the future I add structural support to the barrel, I can just take it off without any damage. I’m glad you shared this!
Thanks for your feedback.The little blue PRV has opened my Eyes to dust collection and how technical it can get. Unlike you I did go with what I saw on RUclips and then found out each setup needs its own Well thought out valve.not everyone agrees that the “blue “valve isn’t the best option but I’m sure that it works on their system or maybe they don’t notice that it’s slightly open most of the time. Either way I wouldn’t be happy unless it’s working properly.You’re doing the right thing building your own as the spring plays a big part.
I had a similar problem with the fiber barrel of my Oneida Dust Deputy 4" cyclone collapsing when I inadvertently completely blocked the suction hose. I reinforced the barrel with wooded struts but Oneida after seeing me mention the problem in my review reached out and offered me a new barrel under warranty which was an unexpected surprise. I solved the problem by using the Rocker Dust Right nozzle and hose system. Both the 4" handle connector and smaller 'click to connect' hose have relief gates which I keep partially open as needed to prevent the barrel from imploding.
Based on that experience in your situation I would suggest installing the relief valve somewhere near the end of your piping so in the event the path to the tool you are using gets totally blocked the valve will open to prevent collapse. You had the right idea, you just put the value in the wrong place for it to be effective.
You’re a smart guy Charles! I agree that the valve needs to be on each hose because of the deviation in pressure according to the hose diameter and tool. The sander is the worst but I have the same feature on my 50mm hoses, it’s a ring that can open slightly to alleviate the pressure but it was not enough for the Cam Vac. The solution would be to put an adjustable PRV on each hose that can be set according to each pressure requirement but the thought of doing that makes no sense when I can just make my bin stronger.
The excessive low pressure (vacuum, suction, or whatever) near the collection bin arises from restricted air flow caused by the long lengths of small-diameter, corrugated hoses. To get to the root of the problem, use larger diameter piping and hoses, and avoid the corrugated stuff wherever possible. Keep the lengths to a minimum. Four-inch PVC drain pipe is far better for long runs.
Someone else mentioned something similar.Next week i will release a new video with what I think is the real problem.Thanks for the feedback
thanks for your explanation. Is it an idea to put the pressure relief valve on the transparent suction tube? I mean the tube that you mounted on the wall.
You Read my mind Jaap! There might be something in the "Pipeline" .Check back in A few weeks and I'll hopefully answer your question.
So probably this pressure valve was wrong parameter. It has to open just when system is clogged..not during normal operation. I think you have to add stronger spring there. What do you think?
I agree, it was very sensitive. The spring is too weak and my canvas was to strong. I also found using the sander and thicknesses would restrict the air flow and cause the valve to open. My solution was to strengthen the collection bin and do away with the valve. It works better for me.
Hello. Thanks for the video. Its very relevant, as i am trying to figure out if i am gonna do the prv or not. So basicly your walls didnt collapse after you removed it? Bud wasnt that why you made the prv in the first place? Was it not the ssme bucket that collapsed? Could you also tell me why you use the seperator, rather then just have the vacum beeing attahced direct to drilled holes in the top of the lit? Thanks✌️✌️✌️✌️
Hi, yes the bin would still collapse without the PRV and that’s why I reinforced the bin walls with extra layers of aluminium sheets. The idea is similar to the rings on a wine barrel but the rings are on the inside.Putting the hoses in the top of the lid directly is a DIY version of the Cyclone separator. The collection bin becomes the separator. I bought one because it looked like a more efficient product at separating dust based on a review I watched on YT. If you have to install a PRV try to keep it outside your cyclone separator.
@@DogdadDIY thanks for fast answer. I am not sure what you mean by outside the seperator, but i assume you mean somewhere on the bucket. 👍✌️👍
@@DogdadDIY also, i wonder if you van tell me the tickness you used on the aluminum reinforcing strips. I tested my own 30liter plastic barrel today, with a drilled hole in the mid, and i got my other hole on the outside of the lit, and after testing, its clocked up, because i include some bolts of hair/sawdust, to see the reaction. And holy fuck it collapsed in on itselfe. Was very hard to bend it back out, so now i need this reinforcing pieces, or a presure valve. Im tempted to try the presure valve, since i have the parts, but now i read some comments on placements. Its seems as the prv should be located on the side, rather then on the top, because it will relieve tension on the side of the tornado effect id assume.. however, i am not sure.. also my top hole for the powertool vacum hose, is actually pointing straigh down, and prop to close to the center stream of the shop vacum hole, so i suspect that optimal setup, would be pointing the powertool inserts in an angle, so it ejects the dust on outer edge of the bucket, as it will neathly turn, and fall down, rather then beiing sucked up into shop vacum, in the eye of the storm… any comments on my mindf… :)? Thanks✌️
Hi think I understand your set in terms of hose set up on your cyclone. It sounds like your inlet and outlet is in the bin with the dust. Personally I like my cyclone on top of my bin. I also had a plastic bin before and I had to reinforce it which is why I use a metal bin now. The stronger the better. The aluminium I used was some scrap I had laying around from a project and it’s a aluminium/perspex mix called Alubond or aluminium composite sheet. If I was to use the PRV , I would use it on the ducting outside of the cyclone and bin. It will do the same job but can NEVER cause problems if it wasn’t working correctly.
@@DogdadDIY just if it was 1.. 1,5 or 2 mm in tickness you used. So i can possible buy right and not waste on to thin/thick piece..✌️
I have the same vac and had a similar problem. The cannister is pressurized and when you reduce the hose width it increases the pressure.
Don’t use any hose under 2.5”. That helped me.
That's interesting ,I use 2" hose for sanders and all my hand tools because they all attach easily.I don't know how to fit a 2.5" hose to them but you're right,I feel very little suction on those tools.
Ive got a camvac extractor and was thinking about adding a Centec cyclone but was concerned that it might affect overall performance due to it reducing from 100mm to 63mm. Do you think that is has affected the performance of your system at all? Regarding the pressure release valve - how did you finally resolve that? I assume you didn't just leave the tape there because you are likely to have another collapsed bin in future! Enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍
Thanks! The Centec cyclone feels better designed to me and it comes with a bigger opening the 63mm unlike the cheaper ones which are 50mm and it has an extra flue to filter fine dust (Rag'n bone brown does a great review on it).As for power reduction ,it's inevitable,If like me you have your whole shop on one system then you'll have many pipes and branches affecting airflow .with my small setup I don't notice a reduction. I have just left the tape there haha because I have reinforced the drum and it's holding fine .
So why does the can walls no longer collapse
Because I made them stronger by adding extra materials to support the bin
That dust collector moves MUCH MORE air than the tiny cyclone or small diameter hoses can handle. In other words, the dust collector sucks all the air out of the drum.
At that point, there is not enough air coming through the small hoses and tiny cyclone to provide the appropriate load, so the motor basically burns up.
Also, with virtually all the air sucked out, atmospheric pressure will cause some drums (mainly plastic or cardboard drums) to collapse. The pressure relief valve reacts to the LOW air pressure inside the drum, and opens - AS IT SHOULD!!! - to allow air in, equalizing the inside air pressure to the outside atmospheric pressure, which prevents destruction of the drum.
The pressure relief valve did not destroy your dust collector, YOU did!
Do not blame the tool, blame the operator!
Yes we know how it works. My video is about why it didn’t work for my setup and the bottom line is the spring on the valve was not strong enough for My CamVac. A good example is when Sanding , my sander restricts the airflow which will inevitably force the valve open.I’ve tried different springs but decided it’s quicker and easier to just reinforce my bin .
@@DogdadDIY A dust collector moves FAR more air than a sander’s small dust port can handle. Tools with small ports should be used with a smallish wet/dry vacuum (shopvac), not a dust collector, not even a bigger shopvac.
In a perfect world we would all love to Have the perfect amount of suction on every tool but in my case MONEY and SPACE is an issue which is why I've chosen Practicality over Perfection and why I think most workshops compromise and have one dedicated dust extractor on a Ducting system.I could be wrong and I'm always eager to learn so If you have made a video or are planning one on this subject please send me a link. Thanks for the feedback