Please watch this before buying the Douk Audio H7 Pro amplifier...
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2024
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I might have a lemon on my hands because my other Douk products have been great, so hopefully other reviewers don't have these same issues!
I went back and tested this myself after putting out a review on this same product, this didn't occur during my initial testing as I had the XLR connected to the Eversolo DMP-A6 using it for volume control and taking advantage of the remote it offers, basically preamp functionality with the H7 Pro volume maxed, that all works great here. Testing what your encountering here I do have the same no show of the volume until around 4 clicks but I am able to achieve whisper levels over XLR if I use a really fine touch with your scenario, a finer touch than what should be required to use, but it's there. Possibly your knob is a little worse off in this example, the increase in volume over XLR didn't really bother me as its somewhat expected but a potentiometer with a bit more precision would definitely benefit the amp here. Thanks for the great review, you had me digging the amp back out and testing haha!
@@MattCoykendall1 Hi Matt! I always watch your reviews and was excited to dig into the H7 Pro after seeing yours. Sorry to hear that your unit has the same volume knob issue as this is what added to the XLR volume increase annoyance for me. I could live with the db difference between the two if that knob would only have let me find a comfortable low listening level! Keep up the great work sir!
@@ForeverAnalog You as well!
As an update. I decided on the Klipsch R-610F towers and the new Onkyo tx-sr3100 that i saw open box for a deal. It has a Klipsch optimization mode so should be good for movies and music. I love Klipsch but i know many are mixed on them. I just love the forwardness of them and they really can fill a space well.
If I might offer a suggestion here ...
When reviewing something, always check all the controls and switches for proper and expected operation. Sound tests using a specific in-use scenario will not always reveal problems that could result in a failed unit. Whatever you're reviewing should be tested by itself before hooking it up to an established system.
In my written reviews I take that one step further and check supply voltages, temperatures and many other aspects of a device, along with basic scope analysis. I don't think anyone expects you to go this far, but over the years I've reported several serious design and manufacturing flaws to these companies.
Pointing out flaws and failures will drive these companies to better quality control in the future.
I am a technical engineer it's the 4.5 volts for XLR most of my gear has a trim option to adjust XLR and RCA.
Let me SAY this now most RUclips reviews have zero understanding of how line level signals work .
And it is the source of most complaints about sound on RUclips . In your case it was on the more extreme end.
Hard to believe but Plug and Play 100% if Music Playback
Yes, great points thank you.
@@ForeverAnalogTry this on the Octo confirm the XLR is at 4 volts not 5 menu setting 6.4 also since it a PreAmp lower the volume on the OCTO and use it the control for XLR , that works and doesn't lose resolution (Start with the Doak at midpoint)
Aaron did consult with me about this volume thing...
The far more normal behaviour of a volume control is that even at rock bottom levels there will be a tiny bit of the signal getting through. If you put your ear up to the speaker you should hear the music sounding very distant. That is, the output is never fully off. Looking at the volume marker that 4th click is about 10 to 15% rotation before there's any output and when the output starts it's already too loud... which is clearly not good.
The jump in volume between XLR and RCA is indeed very easy to compensate for, it just takes a small voltage divider to even the XLR differentiator's output with the RCA level. This is a simple matter of two resistors per channel ... total cost about 50 cents.
Nice review Aaron... thanks for your honesty.
Thanks as always for making sure I wasn't crazy on this one lol!
@@ForeverAnalog
You weren't ... this time ... (grin)
This was very informative and great information. Great job!
Thank you for watching and for the kind words!
I've encountered the volume issue with other other power amps that have XLR and RCA inputs. It exists with my Fosi ZA3 and Galion TS A75 power amps. To match XLR and RCA input volumes, I either turn down my DAC feeding the XLR input, or increase the volume on my Fosi P1 preamp feeding the RCA input. Both options work just fine.
Balanced line level signals are usually normalized to +4dBm, which is 1.25V RMS. Unbalanced line level signals, as used in consumer audio gear, are normalized to -10dBv, which is about 0.3V RMS. So there is a difference of about 12.4 dB between those levels, and the amp design fails to take this into account when switching inputs. The notches in the volume pot are called detents, and detented volume pots were invented in the 70's to emulate the feel of stepped attenuators, which are much more precise and much more expensive. What you have here is a really cheap detented volume pot.
Thank you! This definitely applies to everything I experienced with this amp.
Correct ...thank you for expanding on my answer.
But please note that of late a lot of consumer gear is outputting more like 0.7 to 1vrms ... leaving a 6db jump.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 You're correct. CD players began this in 1983 with a peak output voltage of 2V, and (with most content) an average of about 0.5V to 1V. Outboard consumer DAC's are usually about the same. I deal mostly with older gear that sticks to the older 0.3V spec, and so I described that spec.
@@ScottGrammer
You are again correct ... CDs started this with their stupid "loudness war".
Laughably, *IF* the digital mixing and mastering engineers followed the recommended "alignment level" (do a search) of normalizing at -16dbfs, you would still be correct... but they didn't... So, now, switching from vinyl to digital very often results in a mad dash for the volume control. How rude!
Did you notice this thing only costs 125 bucks? Get what you pay for dude
...also you can adjust the input XLR ...
You have several things going on and I can offer at least one solution that would allow you to use both inputs w/o the higher gain issue.
1. XLR increases output by a full 6 db.
2. You run very high efficiency/sensitivity speakers (Heresy) in a small room.
3. XLR to RCA adapters will allow you to use the XLR inputs but will NOT increase the gain so it’ll be the same output volume using both inputs. This is because in order to experience the higher gain of balanced, the connection must be XLR (balanced) on BOTH ends.
But that 4-click thing?? That’s just weird and dumb.
Also, I found the volume output on the WiiM Amp to be similarly troublesome with my Klipsch Cornwall IVs. The lowest volume was too loud for quiet background listening. Most people using average sensitivity speakers, however, won’t have the same issue.
Hope that helps.
Awesome, thank you. As I said, I wouldn’t mind the volume difference so much but since I can’t use the volume knob to tune down to a comfy listening level on xlr, then I just ended up using rca the entire time lol.
Yup. The TI 3255 is a pro sound amp chip so the RCA inputs are actually under powered. The better way to implement this chip is to use a preamp in the RCA line, and of course they would have to use an appropriate volume pot.
Makes sense!
@@ForeverAnalog
For what it's worth ... the TPA3255 chip has a fixed gain at 21.5db which represents a voltage gain of about 11. So we can calculate the input levels needed to reach maximum output... On 48 volts it needs 4.3 volts to clip, on 36 volts it needs 3.2 volts and on 32 it needs 2.9.
As you saw from the links I gave you, most consumer gear produces about 1v of output. So for that you need a voltage gain of 3 (10db) to clip it even at 32 volts. The exceptions are CD Payers and some DACs that can output 2volts on peaks.
@Boobtuber is absolutely correct that a lot of the problems people have with these mini-amps is that they are badly underdriven.
I am returning the one I got, even got it on discount. For me with the RCA, I couldn't get it loud enough to my liking. It also doesn't have bluetooth so for the price there are other amps I rather go with something in the price range.
This review just popped up in my home page again, so I thought I'd see what's new ...
Reading the comments I must say I'm a little surprised at the number of people defending what is clearly a design flaw. It might be a cheap amplifier, but any competent engineer would have more or less automatically made sure that either of the two problems cited would not happen... That is not something to defend... that is telling you there are better deals in the same price range that you should be considering instead.
I think you need to think of this unit as of a power amplifier not as an integrated amplifier. If the controls were on the back (where there is no room for them) it would be clear. IMHO you need a preamp or DAC that can function like a preamp with this unit and you are not really expected to be switching the inputs. You either have balanced connections or RCA but not both.
Great point thank you!
Some dacs have high and low gain which might help xlr
I know this is a loaded question but I am curious bc I’m shopping right now. If you had $500 and you had to get an amp/receiver and speakers what would you personally get? Assuming you had that to spend on both together. I’m leaning to wharfedales, qef, etc and a cheaper amp.
I'd love to answer this question but like you said, it's rather loaded and I don't even know where to start lol. So much depends on what your needs are, size of room, listening preferences, etc, etc!
Okay - lots of coffee later, I have a better response lol - I would put money into the speakers like you mention. You can save up for another amp over time. I haven't heard A LOT of speakers since picking up my Heresys so I'm not sure I'll have much to suggest unfortunately!
I'm not going to say "buy this." but you may want to consider the original A07 or the TB10d (if you want tone controls) and a nice pair of Elac Debut2 6.2 speakers.
Total cost would be about $450 (us)...
What is/are your primary audio source(s)? That makes a big difference too. If you intend to skip external components like preamps and dacs, you might need an integrated amp with these components to get the most enjoyment until you're ready to upgrade and experiment with standalone pieces, if that day should come.
This might seem like a stupid question, but I wonder what would be the volume impact if you put an XLR to RCA converter on the back? Would the XLR inputs be quieter ? Also I don't get why DOUK would want to put a L / R balance on this amp (it seems unnecessary in desktop Hi-Fi)
That's a good question, yeah. I don't know...I just think these little amps are getting released so fast that they shouldn't require any "tweaking" by the consumer to get them right. It only adds confusion and decision fatigue to the potentially saturated marketplace.
@@ForeverAnalogDescribed in my reply, using adapters is the solution you’re looking for. It’ll allow you to use the XLR input but because the connection is not actually balanced, the higher gain (6db) will not happen. So both inputs will be the same relative volume.
perhaps it's designed to work with preamp?
..really good advice,, but consider the price. For that it's really unbeatable...
Consider also that it would have cost them nothing to do it right.
It seems like a nice amp for small subs...
Could be cheap pots, wrong law. Should be log, are they? Makers have been known to use lin pots. The biggest issue is probably trying to mix domestic equipment with pro audio. Why? Pro audio can use long cables where balanced inputs are a must to reject hum and noise. You also get a 6dB jump in gain, no wonder the pot is cramped. Using such cable over 2-3 feet is a pointless joke. It's just nonsense, like putting meters on. They do nothing for the sound at all but add candy to the eyes. All stuff to make a cheap and quite high distortion amplifier seem like something it's not.
Save up a bit longer, leave class D to the PA market and purchase a decent class AB amplifier! You will end up doing this later anyway.
The XLR is a balanced connection that uses amplifiers to remove the noise , and you have X2 gain there which is 6dB more , big thing its not an audio switcher , buy an audio switcher for your convenience , as far as Volume goes , if they let you use first 3 clicks first 2 would be unbalanced , this always happens with cheap potentiometers even lot more expensive then these , so by getting rid of the start they effectively fixed the issue you don't even know about , like you don't know how XLR works . Let me say again its not an AUDIO SWITCHER ! NOT AN AUDIO SWITHER , get a switcher.
I dont have it but its a prefect amp , as cheap as they can make it without problems . Just if you dont use it in both XLR and RCA modes and expect same levels , you wont even get same Dynamic range , those are 2 different standards , but of course your a noob , utter noob , and you reviewing something ends up based on propaganda , price and marketing . This unit is perfect .
Making excuses for a faulty product is pretty lame.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 if it was a switch it would be faulty , but its not a switch and TRS and RCA standards are different in all accounts , even ones you are not aware of , and a potentiometer that will have balanced LR signal at low volumes costs as much as the device it self , if its mechanical .
I have had Audio interfaces to about 1000$ , guess what on low signals sound is not balanced , this is common as the Potentiometer at very low value has very low resistance and it makes it hard to balance it the 2 , its just how things are .
Wanna switch , buy a switch , want lower volume lower it at the source .
Don't bitch about great product , its absolutely great , if China didn't make it you would pay for it 1000$ at least .
@@dedskin1
This is a bad product. Accept it and move on.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 i once found an idiot who was bashing audio interface because his speakers were turning off . he bashed it so much , i came and said man the idiot , your speakers are on auto turn off . And you are not far from that , and you will see how stupid you are when you see how this sells . God bless
@@Douglas_Blake_579 This is already mk2 , i do not think they would make mk2 of a product that doesn't sell . Even you purchased it . I even looked at John audio channel he disassembled it , put it trough all kinds of tests couldn't find anything wrong except the first 3 click not working , and TRS input being 6dB above RCS inputs , big problem , i dont know how i will solve that one . I literally don't know how, i will have to ask some specialists , of course not you for you dont know what TRS is or how it works .