Mamiya RB67... you're not going to like what I have to say about this camera!
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- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2024
- For one of the most popular 120 film cameras out there... this is going to be controversial. I don't like it.
Ok so I'm teasing a little bit. It is a good camera. BUT... there are some important things to talk about with the RB67.
Firstly, and most importantly, of all the cameras I've bought and owned, I had more failures when buying this than I have before. I bought three cameras, returned two, I bought four lenses, returned two and had to salvage parts from the remaining two to make one good lens.
And here's why - some of these RB67s have taken an absolute hammering in their lives. They are great cameras, and because they are great they were used by professionals through the 70s and 80s, and into the 90s as well. And some of them, not all of course, but some, have been beaten to hell.
This one that I have, and got some really nice photos on, in comparison to the rest of my cameras, is in bits. The body itself is tatty, dented, scratched and temperamental. The film back is battered, dented in a few places, it doesn't open properly, it scratches film, and it's doing a super weird thing that I'll let you discover with me in the video.
This lens has clearly been very very well used, but it's working, and that's why I went with this one. The glass itself is very prone to separation in the rear group. I literally bought three separate 90mm f3.5 Sekor lenses, all with varying degrees of separation in the rear group.
But, if you get a good one, in good condition, I have no doubt at all that this will be an amazing camera for you. Mamiya make great cameras. They just do. Or should I say did.
Aaaaanyway, let me know what you thought of the video, and the photos, int the comments below!
I must be very lucky🤞because my RB67 Pro S and lenses have been trouble free for going on 25 years. Yes, it’s a beast and much more methodical than most other medium format SLRs, but once you’ve learned the ropes it becomes second nature. I’m in the midwest so no humidity issues, I keep dessicant packs in each lens case, have replaced light seals once and I keep it exercised by using it as often as I can. I am definitely very fond of my RB67 Pro S. I have seen quite a few people post here on YT about troubles with recently acquired RB67 cameras. I’ll count my blessings!
Ah interesting, I must have missed all the other people having trouble with RB cameras. I felt like I've only ever seen rave reviews and people harping on about how amazing it is. So my expectations were high, and I felt a little let down. However, I think 99% of the issues can be tracked down to the film back. So I'm going to get a new one and give the whole thing another chance!
Bought an entire collection of several lens, a body, and backs for less than $300. Was an awesome camera with some quirks that needed learning. Sad to have sold it because there were few issues for the price.
Wow! You're definitely not finding one for that money now! It's definitely a nice camera. After thoroughly investigating the issues I was having, I've recently bought a new film back and I think it may solve all my problems. I'll be taking the camera for another spin in the next few days, video coming soon!
Glad to hear you are going to give it another chance…the portraits of your girls looks great
Thanks for the video.
I had to return tbree 90mm lenses before I found one that was not defective.
Your "little sharp bit" I think is the bracket for one of the two small guide rolls in the film back shell. Those are surprisingly delicate for a studio camera system intended for heavy use; I've managed to bend one (and then unbend it with a pocket multi-tool) while loading film. In your case, the roller on the hinge side of the gate is just plain *missing.* At 12:54 you can see the entire roller is missing. Try a different film back (or even just a shell, since the insert seems fine) and you'll probably get rid of your film plane issues, your scratching, and your emulsion stripping all in one go.
Absolutely on the nail!! I discovered this yesterday when I sat down to see if I could fix the issue. The shredding was being cause by that sprung bracket, and the reason it was sharp and causing a snag, is exactly as you say, because the roller is missing completely! So I have done exactly what you have suggested - I've ordered a new film back which looks intact and in good shape. I'll wait for that to arrive and then give this camera another chance to impress me. I may even treat it to some unexpired film!
If I ever suspect focus issues with my cameras I have printed A3 size focus testing chart. It was free download and works perfect. You mount it on cardboard with 45 decree angle and with few cuts the center remains paraller to the lens and you can easily see any focus shift.
That's an interesting idea. I confess to not looking into these focus issues closely enough. I think I may have nailed down the problem with this camera and the focusing... I think it's all down to the same fault in the film back that was causing the scratches. So I'm going to get a new film back and see if all my problems magically disappear! Here's hoping!
Here’s my experience, I bought a 65mm lens last summer from Japan on eBay and it died last fall. I only used it maybe for a few rolls. I jammed my lens on the RB67 and had to send it with the lens to repair. The tech told me the camera body is fine, he said it’s the lens blades have oil on them. I lost 350.00 for that lens. I now just have a few good lenses, and the lenses for these cameras can have many issues, if you get a good one, hang on to it. I have been down the rabbit hole with medium format and there are many options, some cameras in the past were great, but today they can be a problem due to electronics. I have the Rolleiflex, Hasselblad 500 C/M, Mamiya RB67 and Fuji GW690, what do they all have in common? Mechanical cameras with leaf shutters. I like the Pentax 67, Mamiya 6 and 7, RZ67, but they are electronic and can easily become a paperweight.
Speaking as a retired camera tech, yup the Pentax 67, Mamiya 6 and 7, RZ67 are electronic for the most part, but the items on those cameras that tend to fail are mechanical. The Pentax 67 be it first gen or second gen version fail due to the aperture chain breaking or shutter jamming 90% of the time, and the electrical element involved here is basic magnetic shutter bushings that wear out or fail. Where the 67II is almost always a faulty mechanical shutter lever linkage that jams the shutter or it becomes misaligned. The Mamiya 6, and 7 have a faulty mechanical film advance lever that breaks, or shears the advanced lever housing. And the Mamiya RB and RZ have mechanical issues with the film advance lever, the lenses for those two cameras on the other - are a different animal altogether, and they tend to fail in part to the mechanical leaf shutter issues - like oil. Electronics on the whole are very reliable, but tend to fail due to one issue - sodium chloride corrosion, due in part 99% of the time, where those cameras are used near, or around Salt water. And there isn't a single camera new or old, analogue or digital that is fool-proof against sodium chloride corrosion, once the salt is in the air the chemical reaction is swift and gets into the cameras electronics. While the second most common electrical issue with new or old cameras is capacitor failures, they overheat and explode. Electronics on any camera are for the most part very reliable. But a good tip is to ask the seller is, if the camera has seen any use for any amount of time in coastal areas near salt water oceans, and Japan for the most part is surrounded by a salt water oceans.
@@clarhettcoalfield3616 well said.. I also thought the mechanics of a camera was more prone to failure than the electronics at least most dslrs last quite long as well.. the mechanical parts failure rate is higher so going after all mechanical camera can be counter intuitive... thanks for your comment
@@clarhettcoalfield3616thanks for clarifying that. I had a Bronica SQ and SQ-B for years and never had an issue. I sold them to buy a Hasselblad 500 CM fearing the electronics someday would fail in the Bronica. After a few weeks I had a jam of the lens on the Hasselblad body after a few weeks. Your analysis makes sense. Seems like it just comes down to finding a good camera body with lenses and just shoot photos and not worry about the mechanics and electronics.
@@CalumetVideo Yes electronics in analogue cameras built after 1972 are reliable to a fault, when they do fail its due to sodium chloride corrosion, which starts with the simplest connections and erodes the solder joints before moving to the wires, then the bonded electrical boards, which includes any ribbon cabling. And the LCD displays made after 1972 up to the mid 1990's don't really fail, those that have that metallic silver/pale greenish screen with black numerals, here when you have a display that doesn't light up or doesn't seem to be working, it's not what is going on at all. Here the extremely thin layers of crystal separates from the copper filaments in between each layer and they are all actually still working but invisible to the naked eye, all that is required is a piece of polarized film to be place in front of the LCD screen in order to see what lies beneath the layers - that's about 70% of the time. But those LCD screens can crack, or the inner contact points get corroded. Then were back to that pesky issue sodium chloride corrosion. Salt water changes the airs molecular composition when you're near an ocean.
@@clarhettcoalfield3616 @calumetvideo I just love the comments on these videos. You could learn all you need to know about cameras just from the comments!! Whilst I don't live near an ocean, it's good to know how damaging salt water in the air can be. Our major problem here in the UK is damp and mould. At least half my time is taken up with keeping damp out of my cameras, or cleaning mould out of lenses!
I have a pro sd and pretty much only use K/L lenses. More expensive, newer, more reliable. The older models are showing their mass use in a lot of cases. A friend of mine had a pro s and it kept breaking down with various issues. I use mine every week and have it serviced once a year. It’s a mechanical camera, but one thing that people don’t think about is, those mechanics essentially need regular lubrication. A lot of RB’s fail because they’ve been ‘run dry’ or run until their internals are basically grinding metal, like a bad gearbox. Also, with the focusing, the bellows makes you forget how close you might actually be and how shallow the DoF is, even at an f stop where you would expect sharper results.
Sadly that really is a factor of all these wonderful cameras, that they're showing their age. It's slightly scary to think that we are actually grinding down the last examples of these cameras. I do my best to make sure every camera that I don't return, gets a good going over and a thorough clean, with judicious drop of lube where needed. But as you say, the signs of age and poor care are often clear. Gears grind down, metal wears over time.
I knew that I'd be right down on the DOF, that was a risk I was taking! What took me by surprise was that i was square on to the subject, both eyes were in focus on the GG, but then when I developed I seemed not to have gotten it right. I think that some of the commenters here are probably correct, then same thing that was causing the scraping along the film was possible giving me a fractionally uneven film plane. And at that short DOF, possibly the shortest DOF I could ask this lens to give, the minute shift in the flatness of the film across the gate was showing.
I love it how you go into details when something is not working as intended. The self portraits although only meant as a test are really nice. They are only beaten by the pics of your girls. Really sorry for the roll of film which only took pictures of the darkslide from the inside.
Thx for sharing
Alas I don't think too hard about what goes into these videos! Whatever happens, happens, and if I find it interesting, I hope you guys will! So those weird sawdust type stings appearing in the film back was a real head scratcher for me, and that's what really happened while I was shooting!
The dark slide issue was annoying. But let's be honest here... is it a fault with the camera for allowing me to shoot with the dark slide in? Or is it really a fault with me being a total idiot and forgetting to take the dark slide out?? They try to make these cameras fool-proof... but they hadn't banked on my level of foolishness!!
Great content as always. I have resisted buying the Mamiyas because I have the Bronica Gs-1, but that very extensive lens lineup and reputation do keep tempting me! It is good to see videos where they aren't just full of praise for it haha.
I think people usually recommend the RB these days because it is all mechanical so in theory more repairable then its far easier to use sibling the (the RZ) or even the Pentax 67. But yeah these were workhorse cameras so took huge amounts of abuse probably. The rotating back sure is a huge advantage compared to my Gs-1, but hey at least the Gs-1 is a lot lighter.
As for 6x7, well I think today it is just very popular at least in part due to the unique (but arguably overdone) look some lenses like the Pentax 105 f/2.4 get. I like all of the 120 ratios and love switching between them but do find that 645 and 6x7 lend themselves slightly better to portraits.
6x7 isn't very rectangle but if you like to print on standard 4:5 sizes (especially in the darkroom) it is stupidly convenient. 6x6 gets a heavy crop if you want to fill up the full page and I think 6x9 might be even worse. That and I think 6x7 was one of the more popular late film era formats so you have a greater variety of 'modern-ish' lenses. There aren't many good 6x9 interchangeable lens options out there especially outside of bulky view cameras. 6x7 is still definitely the more expensive option to get into (film costs higher than 6x6/645 and camera costs much higher than 6x9) so imo definitely not the ideal format for someone looking to just try out medium format.
Well now... I'm really trying to spend more time in the darkroom and make more prints, and to talk about it more. And then here I am making this video, slamming the "less rectangular" nature of 6x7, and completely overlooking the potential in the darkroom. Shame on me! You're right of course, 6x7 will translate better to a 4x5 or 8x10 print than 6x6 or 6x9... now why didn't that occur to me??
Shamefully for a self-proclaimed Bronica fan-boy, I've never tried the GS-1. It's on my list, I definitely want to give one a go. One day!
I do think, like you, that there is a place for all the 120 sizes, and it's satisfying to switch between them. And of course, I use that to justify owning so many cameras!
Nice one Nick! The following comments are NOT about you, or your expectations…
“Hammered” is the norm, unless you manage to get one that was bought new by a rich poseur who didn’t punch 20 rolls a day thru it…
While it seems a bit retrograde that the wind + cock are separate functions, for me that was on the “plus side” of the list - less to go wrong, or - more to the point - less that has to be perfect in each combination of back+camera… case in point, dark slide / shutter lock… you’re lucky that the camera/back combo will let you “waste” film; imagine being on a trip and it broke the other way and wouldn’t let you shoot at all when slide is out!
There’s a fine balance between buying something that is engineered for ease of use vs reliability 50+ years later. And then there’s the fundamental issue a ton of folk don’t seem to quite understand when getting excited by these wonderful monsters - what and who they were designed for. Professional studio photographers who “married” a single system. In the 60’s and 70’s… That’s not gatekeeping / saying “you’re not good enough” to use them, just “all of these systems have their differences and quirks, and it’s up to each user to learn how to manage that, do each step consistently, and to forget all the expectations they have from their experience of other cameras”.
It doesn’t help that when any of us get a “new 40-70 year old” camera we get thrust straight into “hmmm so what’s going to be wrong with you” rather than “ok what do I need to change about how I do things” that the first time owner did back when new.
Agreed! I was thinking about the a few days ago. Back years ago, those photographers usually invested in just one system, they learned the system and it became 2nd nature. Today, many of us including myself, use two or three systems, that can be a juggle between systems.
Thank you! All comments and info are always gratefully received, whatever the tone. But I hear you!
And you're absolutely right of course. I think I approached this video with in mind how these RBs have come to be used by others across RUclips - ie handheld, shooting expired Portra, endless shots of gas stations at night etc. So I didn't really embrace the original design and intended usage, and that's a mistake on my part.
I can be guilty of being a bit anti the super popular cameras... I did it with the Hasselblad 500CM a few years ago, and I think I've just done it a little with the RB. And then when I come across a camera which people are slamming as being difficult or unreliable, I find myself looking for the good. I suspect there is a psychological take away here somewhere!
All that said, my real takeaway here was that it was surprisingly difficult to find a decent quality example of the RB. Moreso than other cameras that I've had on the channel. That is probably partly due to the original users - the professionals who worked their kit hard - and also probably due to the last ten years or so of expired Portra gas station shooters, who are just hard on kit.
With more investigation, and with the fantastic comments that you all have taken the time to leave, I've both figured out that most, if not all, of the issues I was having can be traced to the film back, and I have decided that the best course of action is to get another film back and take this camera out again, armed with the shared knowledge of everyone here. So that's the plan. Coming soon!
@@the120ist nice to hear you’ll give it another shot; good luck with getting a decent back…
Just to reiterate what I said right at the beginning of my fever induced rambling - it wasn’t a reflection on you. I absolutely love what you bring to your vids, your lack of pretentiousness, and the honesty of your experiences.
one other reason for the shutter jamming is that you need to push the lever all the way down, so the mechanics fully cycle, that is esp. important on bronica and Hasselblads to.
Another sneaky way for these symptoms to arise is for the m-up switch (the round knob on the lens) to be deployed, in this mode the shutter only sets the mirror and prepares the body for the shot, to 'fire' you need to rotate the knob back to N or to use a cable release in the threaded socket inside it.
I got my RB67 from a workmate she used it back in the day not heavy studio work just occasional portraits and weddings so it's in pretty good nick, Nick. I've used it a few times nowhere near as much as it deserves though. These days I'm using my 6x6 and 6x9 folders more, love how compact those things are. That shot of you masked up is a cracker mate.
Thanks Paul! Yeah I think if you can find a good clean model it could be great. But.. portable it ain't! I think, after taking the film back apart and discovering the actual cause of the problems I was having, I'm going to get another film back and give it another chance...
@@the120ist deffo worth another go mate can’t exactly recall but the back I have sticks for some reason I have to depress an tab or something to allow it to fire bit of a faulty back issue but an easy work around. It’s pretty portable if ya take a wheel Barra mate
I have a Hassy 501C that has been nothing but headaches; finally canned it for a 500c/m which has been fine. (I have also owned and used Pentax 67s, Mamiya 330w, Rolleis, etc.) Many RBs are battered veterans of pro work. Mine has been grand. In use, it is more like a 4x5 view camera, with the same aspect ratio, which I like, and some of the same processes, the separate cocking of shutter and film handling being one example. On the positive side you have the convenience of roll film, the closeup advantages of bellows focusing, and a fully mechanical system. I would add that with that big mirror, I would always shoot extreme close ups (such as there ones you made) in mirror-lock-up mode, which takes some getting used to and is again kind of view-camery, if you know what I mean. In fact, unless I am using the camera hand-held--which is not often--I always switch to lens to fire after the mirror is locked up. In short, it is a camera for folks who like to work deliberately, and if you get a good one (and are strong enough to lug the thing around) they are great for that kind of work.
Oooh that's really interesting. I wouldn't occur to me to lock the mirror up unless I'm doing long exposures. But you think lock it up if you're doing macro, or essentially anything where it's no hassle to lock it up? I guess it removes any chance of the slapping mirror giving you motion blur. I get what you're saying about the system, it's a different approach to your standard walkabout cameras, more deliberate and considered. Much like LF, as you say. I think what I'm going to do with it is get another film back, which should solve most of the obvious issues, and give it another go, keeping all these wonderful comments fresh in my mind. Watch out for that coming soon!
So beings you also use the Bronica ETR / ETRS models and lenses ... I have gotten TWO lenses so far that have been listed as working lol.. One worked for a short while but the 150 mm that came with the partial camera kit I bought was the one I learned how to fix.. So if you ever get one that always seems to fire at its default 1/500 speed no matter what you set the shutters speeds at ... There is a very tiny spring inside the lens that slips off the side of the lever it pushes over.. When the lens cocks that spring pushes the latching system over towards the electromagnet that holds it after the camera fires.. If that spring slips off the side of that lever most if not all of the shots you trigger the lens just releases without pause. I have another lens I have to fix that has the same issue.. I hope I can get a picture or something of the exact lever and spring so I can share with others .. I have seen this issue with two lenses already and everyone said I should take out the magnetic lever and put it on a magnet or something crazy because it has lost its magnet properties or something lol.. I am thinking maybe people are just not simply finding that little spring because both of mine slipped under and if you are not really looking close you can miss the fact the spring even slipped off. I would imagine many of those lenses got tossed into the garbage over something so simple.. Ok so its not THAT simple to take it apart and get to the spring lol. But you know what I mean :)
That's really interesting, thank you! So far I think all of my ETRS lenses are working ok, I haven't noticed any issues. But it's really good to know about common issues like that. Anyone who repairs cameras and lenses just LOVES tiny springs right? They're our favourite things in the whole world......
I wonder if you drove a 50 year old car if you would be upset by it having problems from wear and age. Of course not. But I sure miss my 1970 240Z one of the first in the country but I know if I still had it, I would be dropping lots of money and time keeping it running. Would it be worth it to have that wonderful gearbox and clutch, that balanced cornering at the limit, you betcha. My RB over 10 years has been customized....like a 32 ford hot rod... so it has flames on the side like a hot rod. Upgraded pro sd backs to eliminate light leaks, an olsen bright screen focusing screen with split prism making focusing quick and reliable, upgraded KL lenses with better coatings and zero shutter or mold issues. Now, it just WORKS FLAWLESSLY and gives incredible images that feel like you could walk into them. Facial tonal transitions are gorgeous, stellar bokeh and after listening to the youtube bozos who said it had to be in a back pack outside the studio, I now wear the optech strap cross body, have film advanced, dark slide out and from a position resting on my hip, can swing into action, cock shutter, focus, shoot if I just set exposure when I enter new light condition. Can even zone focus so can just shoot like a point and shoot. But most important, it is now FUN to use. No worries about missing focus or light leaks.
I shot this camera for years in my Portrait studio. It lived on my tripod and made gorgeous portraits. When I closed the shop I switched over to the Hasselblad 500Cxi and now the 500CW. The Mamiya lenses are less crispy than the Hasselblad but give creamy rich Portraits. And for portrait prints the 6x7 is perfect.
No doubt that you can get beautiful portraits with the RB, the two rolls I shot in the garage proved that, despite other factors involved! I'm convinced that the RB is a wonderful system, with great lenses, I'm just surprised by how many bricks are out there. From a buyers POV I had way more disappointment trying to set myself up with an RB than I've experienced with any other system!
The RZ67 will fix some of the problems you found on the RB, but it's still my least used 6x7 system. Big, heavy and complicated, I don't understand why anyone would prefer it over either the Pentax 67 or Mamiya 7 unless it's only being used in a studio on a tripod. I hang on to mine for the occasional macro/closeup photography shot.
I'm going to get another film back and give this system another chance. But after that I suspect it may go the same way as yours. I love the close up focusing availability, and the lenses seem pretty sharp. But save the occasional portrait or studio work, where does it fit in... I suspect when I get hold of a new film back, I will conclude that the RB system is really good... but I'm still selling it. We shall see!
I've recently purchased an RB67 Pro S with a matte focussing screen and I do wonder how accurate I will be when focussing. I'm tempted to get a split ring focussing screen from brightscreen. I've got one on order for my Bronnie ETRSi so I'll give that one a go first.
I've just checked my film back and it doesn't suffer from the problems yours has (phew!). I had already noticed that the mounting of the film back in the shell is simply not good enough for a 'pro' body and I can see how they would get damaged when used in a professional environment (it's fine for a 'once in a blue moon' level of use).
I haven't tried the Brightscreen for the RB, but I have replaced original screens with Brightscreens on many of my cameras. I'm a big fan! So I'm sure their RB replacement will be just as high quality.
I've recently replaced the film back, and I think it should solve all the problems I was having. So this RB is going to get a second chance. Video coming very soon!
I love mine (Pro SD), but I was lucky, it seems. There are, as you say, a lot of lemons out there. One thing I did find, soon enough, is that it helps greatly to have read the manual. The RB may be simple to operate, but it's all too easy to screw things up (literally, when it comes to lens removal).
For sure! I do try to make sure I read the manuals when I get a new camera. But I can be guilty of getting a little over excited and flicking through then getting stuck in! Hasn't caused me too many problems... yet!
By contrast, I bought my RB67 (ProS model) from a Japan eBay seller just before the 2020 lockdowns. It came with a Sekor C 90mm f/3.9 which is excellent, as well as both 6x7 and 6x4.5 film backs (Pro generation backs) and a waist level viewfinder.
By this time, I've added 50 mm, 127 mm, 150 Soft Focus, and 250 mm lenses, CdS metered chimney viewfinder, unmetered prism viewfinder, left hand grip, a 220 6x7 ProS film back, and several Graflex backs made for 2x3 Graflok, which fit and work but without some of the interlocks the ProS and ProSD bodies support. I've also got both sizes of macro tubes, a 2x teleconverter, and a 0.45x wide angle filter, giving me effective focal lengths from 23 mm to 500 mm. I've got just about US$1000 into the entire system over four years, not counting the carbon fiber tripod I bought to replace my heavy old aluminum surveyor's tripod.
And that's what I love about this camera system -- it's versatile in a way no other medium format system is. Three frame formats (6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7 -- some bodies a little newer than mine will shoot 6x8 = 9 frames with a fairly uncommon film back and I have a 6x9 back that still only gives about 77 mm frame), three viewfinders, at least four more lenses I don't have, and supports 220 (and you can shoot 35 mm pano/sprockets in the 220 back).
Yes, it's heavy, and it's old, but apparently my body and the lenses I've gotten (fairly cheaply) weren't over-used; I've had one dud lens (my first 127 mm had a worn/broken part in the shutter), but everything else has worked right out of the seller's packaging. There aren't any fast lenses, but it's not a street or bar shooting camera anyway (it's a studio camera, just turn up your strobes) -- and even without a tripod, I can shoot 1/30 with the 90 or 127 with no problems because waist level viewfinder; the camera is supported by the neck strap and both hands.
It definitely sounds like a solid system to get into, if you can start with a good body! As far as I can tell this body I have is pretty good, I'm not finding any major issue with. The lenses I have had have mostly suffered from separation of the rear lens group, which seems pretty common on the 90mm 3.8. So, as you pointed out in your other comment here, pretty much all my gripes can be traced to that dodgy film back. I've ordered another one... results to follow!
What are you thinking about the 150 soft focus?
@@s.y.n.c.c I haven't actually shot it on film yet. but it looks like it'd be just the thing for studio model work -- stop down and it's as sharp as you could want, open up and the residual spheric aberration softens everything. Got too much light? Insert one of the disks and get equivalent to f/8 or even f/11 with the actual diaphragm wide open. Good match with a metered viewfinder.
Unfortunately, I don't have any history doing model work or portraits... :(
the scratches at 9:22 could be dust in the mag, PS: this is a PRO system, and analogue so YES you can use 'canned' air to dust the rollers, etc.
one other possibility (unlikely in this case), but worth saying, a loose film load, aka sag on the frame in front of the film pressure plate, and scratching as the film is drawn past the plate (also a loose pressure plate, which can also affect the focus!).
I think I got really lucky with the condition my came in, no issues 🤞and it's just a pro not pro s
it don't matter the model.. I know someone who got the pro sd and it failed on him after the return period.. he's got a brick now..
And maybe I've been really lucky with all the other cameras I've bought, and my luck finally ran out with the RB!! Without doubt, there are decent examples out there. I just didn't find them!
I suspect there's few RB67s left out there that are truly in good standing. I got mine a few years ago and have never had issues with it. A friend asked my help to get him one a few month later, and I confidently agreed, only to be disappointed at the state some of the copies were being presented in the listing, compared to how they actually were in real life. Eventually ended up making the second system from pieces, in order to get something appealing and usable in the end. Lately I've seen mostly duds on eBay, some copies that seem to have been worked on, and others claiming to be in mint condition, although I suspect they've been serviced or put together just as I did with the second one. And the prices are simply insane, especially for the wide lenses.
a friend of mine had one of them i did try it out but found it bit on the big side and heavy i use a Bronica etrs myself that i find it great to use.
Definitely big and definitely heavy. But I didn't find it so big and heavy that I couldn't have forgiven it if the performance was spectacular. But it wasn't. With this one at least. And if the performance isn't 100% then the big-ness and the heavy-ness becomes a chore very quickly!
at 10:14, YES!!!!- DUH !! I forgot this point too, you didn't rip off the leader papers' glue tab COMPLETELY, this is the shredded items you found, it is a tight tolerance in there, and Hasselblad and Rolleiflex say in the manuals you NEED to, as this is the result, the focus would be caused by this too (debris getting under one side of the backing paper in the pressure plate area); this should fix both issues.
Still love my Pentax 645!
That's nice camera! Havent' had the chance to try one. yet...
@@the120ist where are you based?
Whenever im tempted i go on ebay and check out the prices! That sobers me up quick because i like a bargain. I bought a bronica S2a years ago all boxed with lenses backs etc and it was less than £280. Took it to the beach in Wales and the results were amazing. Before that id only tried the ETRS and wanted the square format. When i saw an s2a in mint condition black but not working i bought it for $170. Turned out it was two mechanical levers on one side of the body fuzed together with old grease. Its working fine now. Also for the sake of 1cm of more exposed film the mamiya is far too big for me. The S2a with the various lenses i have for it is my keeper. Smaller and a clasic design in my book.
We all know how I feel about the S2A! My trusty photography companion. I don't compare other cameras to it, I sort of have my S2A on a different "shelf" in my mind. Nothing will likely ever come close to the character and style of it, so for me, other cameras are battling out between themselves. The S2A has won all the belts and retired from competition as the GOAT! Prices for the S2As are going crazy right now, a good clean confirmed S2A will fetch £550+ at the moment. But that's the one that ain't being sold... shame, I could do with the cash!
@@the120ist so true. That's why I bought that mint condition black one as I knew it was not from being overused that it was broken. More upon opening it up that it was dried grease and probably lack of use! And to open one up and see the magic of springs and levers is a sight to behold! Just picked up a 6x9 zeiss ikon plate camera for €25 sold as no ground glass which is easy to put a new one in and shutter will need a service. Managed to get a roll film back for it so will be looking forward to trying that. Need to get myself marketed as I've repaired and serviced so many cameras now I need to start selling them. I love doing the Kodak retinas as per Chris Sherlocks methods on his RUclips. Sadly retired now so someone has to keep it going.
The RB67 went through a massive price bubble but we’re on the other side of it now. If you’re patient and watch auction listings, you can get a deal. I saw one in great condition with the 127mm lens sell for just over $300 a week or so ago on eBay.
These cameras were pretty much built to be studio portrait work horses. Nowadays they are old and most have been heavily used. This is the problem with all vintage film cameras, they can be reliable but it takes a lot of care and maintenance, which can be expensive. Also, I believe the 6x7 format is for printing on 8x10 paper with minimal cropping.
I don’t know why I am not a professional photographer But seeing all these photo make me wanna cry All those picture so beautiful 🥲
Personally I prefer the RZ over the RB but just like the RB, the majority have had long, hard lives. The trick is to find one in good condition but also at a reasonable price! I've had mine for several years now and while I love it, it's also been a frustrating experience with various wear and tear related problems.
Fascinating video, yep these cameras were working tools for professionals would have been heavily used. Not had one myself, but the thought has floated around in my head for a long time. The snagging has not only shaved the edge of the film but scratched your emulsions, :( Was the shaving on the same "side" of the film ? upper/lower edge.? And was the OOF always on the same side of the print ?, the leading or following edge of the frame ? Asking as the OOF ,as you will know I am sure, was moving your film out of register with the "plimsoll" mark so the frame was not uniformly level across it's surface, not consistently "in the focal plane" , Granny teaching how to suck eggs , of course, for which I apologise. Would a new film back possibly cure these 2 problems ? Of course "good luck" finding a good one 2nd hand :( hens teeth innit ? I suppose all of our " analogue" cameras are getting long in the tooth and like ourselves start to show the effects of our long lives since date of manufacture :) I Enjoy your content immensely as does BobFlappybum 🤣
Ha ha. Good old Bob. I'm sure you're right, that the focus issues were linked to the snagging. It would make sense, the shavings were appearing bottom left of the film back, appearing top right of the negative. And I was finding focus problems on the right hand side of the negs.
Now that I've had a chance to properly examine the film back I've found the problem. The snag is a broken bracket for one of the guide rollers in the film back, and that guide roller is gone completely, it's just missing. So whether it was the snag or the lack of the roller, either way the film must have been lifting from the pressure plate a fraction of a mm, causing the focus to drift on one side.
And yes, a new film back should fix almost all the problems I think. So I'm on the lookout!
@@the120ist Ah :) so it's fixable :) shame it has suffered damage , BUT after many years of good service we all start to sign of wear and tear :) I know I do :)))))
Love my RB67 and my Pentax 67
I'm going to get a new film back for this one and give it another chance! Still yet to try a Pentax 67... it's on the list!
@@the120ist Both great cameras. Saving up for a Leica M6 and a Hasselblad 500cm and I’m done.. I hope 🤞
6x7 is far bigger than 6x6 when you are cropping an a4 for magazine covers. Especially when using Polaroids to proof and find crops for layouts.
I can't argue that it's not bigger. And sure, if you're cropping to a rectangular size, then you'll lose less from a 6x7. But I am now going to get out my calculator and see what the percentages are.... my point in the video was that for a former 35mm shooter looking at this camera because they want to keep the aspect ratio that they've got used to (3:2) then the actual equivalent is in MF is 6x9, and therefore 6x7 is closer to 6x6 than it is to a true 35mm ratio.
@@the120istjust a personal anecdote, but I tend to print 8x10 in the darkroom and one thing that’s nice about 6x7 and 6x4.5 is that they almost perfectly fit that size without cropping. For anyone wanting to maintain the 3x2 aspect ratio, check out the Fuji GL690! It can easily be shot handheld, the lenses are ultra sharp, and the negatives are enormous.
Thanks for your great videos! Your Bronica S2 videos were a massive help when I received mine and needed to fix its focus. Also, I’m very excited to see your video on the GX680. I’ve been shooting some architecture lately and would love to have movements on the front standard while shooting medium format. I guess I could get a view camera but the GX680 is just so unique and interesting that it’s more appealing.
I think those cameras probably need a CLA by looking at the problems you been having. That back can use some adjustment and some tlc. The lenses it’s a different story.
I had so many issues with backs for hasselblad, same issue, the light seal leaves because it's only a crappy strip. I give up with ebay and all. I have enough cameras and lens now.
Woah... no one said anything about have enough cameras. Is that a real thing? Can one have 'enough' cameras????!!!
@@the120ist ahaha yes
I just shot my first roll through my RB67 pro S and I forgot to remove the dark slide. Second roll the film advance lever got stuck. Thankfully Kentmere is cheap.
You've got a faulty camera.. if you can return it, do so immediately and get something else like a bronica, pentax etc...
Yeah, according to the instructions, it shouldn't do that! Do you know if you have an original Mamiya dark slide? Mine fired with the dark slide in, but the original dark slides should depress a button when they slide it that prevents you pushing the shutter.
Yes, it’s the original dark slide. The third roll was perfect. I found a video that described how to fix the jammed advance lever. On the top of the back there’s a small black button you press and it released the tension and advanced properly.
Triggered 😂😂😂 Tiny Challenger is my baby (named it after some irony and our national tank)
It's in great condition other than a few dings and scratches though I do need to get a new focusing screen made!
Ha ha! Nothing wrong with a little click-baity title here and there! Tiny Challenger! I like that. I will always recommend the awesome Rick Oleson screens, I assume he does one for the RB.
@@the120ist cheers!
I shot professionally with these in period ......Great camera.....I think you are too late to the party. ALL the good ones have gone by now. The things don't get serviced and all the foam seals are either toast or goo. They are at least 45 years old and counting . I jumped back in a couple of years ago and bought sensibly but I was able to service thev body, thev RB and film backs
but in the end, I sold it all. I'd bought the best lenses I needed , to avoid separation etc issues but I still had to clean glass internally. I figured long term it would all be a liability so I got out while prices were still strong.
Late to the party... story of my life! I do a fair bit of servicing on the cameras I buy. I did the light seals as soon as it arrived, I took the lens apart, cleaned up the mechanism and cleared some dust and fungus, and as I mention, swapped the rear groups between the lenses to give me one fully clean lens. I was surprised by how many RB bodies seemed to have not been treated all that well. Now, I'm not asking for a camera wrapped in cotton wool, I don't mind if there's no paint left on it, but at least two that I bought had significant impact damage, and the other one was stiff as all hell, I don't think anyone had ever serviced it. I may have been unlucky, but I haven't had that many duds from any other camera system.
I tend to think you can run into trouble with all 50-60 year old cameras. Unless you buy them from a trusted shop who checks them, but then you have to pay for it. They know about prices.
There are so many resources for fixing cameras especially teardowns. As long as there are no electronics involved you can fix anything with a screw driver. If there are electronics involved then you can fix anything with a soldering iron. People tend to be too afraid to open their own equipment. From 1980 till now there has been an emphasis on software and computers which has lead to a society where people are afraid to use their hands and would rather take their gear to a "specialist" who uses the same resources that you can find online.
I don't know, I've bought duds from well respected camera shops! I would say before this RB experience I actually had a higher return percentage to camera shops than I did on ebay!
@@ReclusiveEagle Totally agree with you! And I did a fair bit of fixing on this camera before I started the video. In fact, now that I have had some time to examine the continuing faults (the film shredding and the slight focus issue) it is fairly easily fixable, if I can find a couple spare parts. If....
To me this camera is a clumsy, overlarge white eleplant. Technically I am sure that cameras of this ilk are "superb" to some, but the very thought of lugging anything like this around on a daily basis, with all its extra baggage, makes me cringe. Just too much complexity for the average photographer, give me an Ilford Envoy anytime 🤗😇Excellent video, cheers.
You wait..... Fuji GX680 coming next! And yes, I will be shooting it handheld for some of the video. Because I want to.
@@the120ist You'll give yourself a hernia 😩. Latest medium format purchase is a Fex Indo 45 620 film, because I liked the cut of its jib, and it weighs next to nothing, wait until you're old 😎
I can't agree with you more, the RB67 and the RZ67 are in my books way, way, way over rated. They're okay, but nothing special in my books - save for the rotating back. The cameras are big and heavy, not to mention clunky and really belong in the studio for optimal results. Now for me, I think the Bronica GS-1 is a far better camera, and BTW don't go buying a GS-1 because I'm sending you one in that care package I'm packing up now, with a couple of lenses too, along with a bunch of other goodies.... I'm just having a hard time deciding what I'm putting in that box... lol
Ahh Clay! Seriously? Wow. I am dying to try a GS-1. Thank you. I can't wait!
Camera is not for everyone. Some people are stronger than others. Some complain less too. Use the camera, don’t use the camera. It’s just a tool.
OK...we're going digital! JK:-)
that's it! damn it all. This is the END.
its no Hassie that's for sure !!!:D
RZ in my experience was truly finicky, RBs ok. Not ideal for candid and hand-held photos for sure!
They are both relics.. any one you get now will be a gamble
Those bellows have always been a temptation , but I already feel bad for buying a 500cm, no more 6x6 SLRs for me.
I didn't mind the form factor so much. It's definitely big and heavy, for sure, not ideal, but if the performance made it worthwhile I could have lived with that! I'm just not a big one for returning stuff off ebay... I want to buy something and it be useable, or useable with a couple of fixes. All this back and forth annoyed me! I was surprised that I found such a high proportion of duds. Haven't had that with other systems.
@@joshmcdzz6925 They definitely seem to be a gamble. Moreno than other cameras I've bought. Maybe I was really unlucky with the selection I tried to buy, but there seemed to be such a high proportion of poor quality models out there.
@@TristanColgate One of my favourite things about the RB is the ability to focus close. I'm always trying to get closer to subjects, and I was finally able to get some eye detail with the RB. Almost... almost made me want to keep it. But not quite!
Said nothing that needed to be said. Yet others made channels about a camera to bring in likes. Same here using the same fundamentals to bring in likes.
You sound like the kind of person who complains about everything whether it affects what you do or not. Like the JD power car survey reader who bought the highest rated car but dragged it down because you just complain, unlike those that had a realistic outlook. The person who complained that an Impreza Turbo had poor fuel economy and at 25mph you heard a squeek somewhere!
I don't think I'd describe myself as a moaner. I'm usually pretty positive about stuff. I think on this one I had high expectations, as I'd heard so many people rave about the RB, and my first experience of the system was finding a surprising proportion of battered cameras on sale. As I said in the video, it is a great camera, and the lenses are terrific. But with so many poor quality examples out there, you've got to be careful.
Let's be honest, most of those cameras are over 50 years old, enough said.
Yeah if the back isn't properly aligned it won't fire.
What I was finding slightly annoying is that it was locking up when the back looked fine… but with a bit of jiggling it freed up again, so obviously it wasn’t fine. But I couldn’t tell without moving it and moving it back again. 🤷♂️
I have slightly more than one RB 67 Pro S and Pro SD models, fortunately all are fine. A couple of then I got from local pros for whom they were studio back-ups and had barely been touched, even the boxes are in 'as new' condition!
I love the camera, much prefer it to my Hasselblads, brighter viewfinder and as a result, a lot easier to focus. Not to mention the close focus capability. That and I love the 6x7 aspect ratio.
Unlike the RZ system, the RB also has a 6x8 back, and, yes, I have one. The one benefit of the Pro SD over the Pro S is that the Pro SD has mechanical light seals not foam ones, not a big deal but one less thing to worry about.
@@the120ist The rotating backs can be problematic. Often the rotating ring needs to be disassembled and cleaned. It should rotate smoothly and easily and click into place.
I was one of the service technicians for the UK importers. Get an RZ67.
@@jonjanson8021 It definitely did rotate smoothly, and it was clicking at each end, but there was just enough play once it had clicked to dislodge it far enough to lock the shutter. I guess a good going over, a clean up and a tightening of all screws may fix that.
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