I feel like Maffei is merely inflating the price tag of the smaller teams rather than increasing the value to make F1 look like it's in a stronger place than it actually is.
I have mentioned that multiple times in the F1 Sub-Reddit. Wait until the next collapse. The teams, and Liberty Media will be singing a much different tune. Hell, I remember Toyota being asked to change up their program because Peugeot decided to up, and leave before the season even commenced.
It's about time they put the whole 'road relevance' thing to bed, because lets be honest, the days of 'personal cars' are slowly coming to an end whether we like it or not, and at best, should personal cars exist for the long term future, they're just going to be soulless Tesla's, Kia's, and nondescript EV appliances, nothing of authentic sporting aspirations. It'll never happen as F1's owners only care about money, but I'd be on the phone to Cosworth, Ilmor, Judd, etc, and ask them what they would want out of F1 engine regulations and what they can supply with their budgets, draw up an agreement, then tell Mercedes/Renault/Honda/Ferrari/Audi "comply to this or fuck off".
The ticket prices and stuff at US races are already an issue. And the fact Liberty is hyping them as events that oh hey there's a race too. You can't run a racing series as a spectacle where the race is incidental to the weekend.
Liberty Media already is in hot water in the US, what with LiveNation being investigated by the US Congress and the USDOJ, and now with the Andretti affair also being noticed by the two aforementioned US government entities... remember what happened to FIFA when the USDOJ investigated that organization... it wasn't pretty, let me tell you.
@@kristoffermangila And the common denominator between Liberty Media and Live Nation: Anti-Competitive practices. And with Liberty Media being an American Organization and them rejecting Andretti of all names, you sorta get the sense the DOJ weren't gonna ignore this issue (Especially when said entity literally owns a company being sued for Anti-Competitive practices). Suddenly, Dorna being bought out by Liberty Media is looking alot less likely...
I’d say a bigger problem is that, as a fan, it’s really hard to root for billionaire’s children. We’re not really seeing the best 20 drivers in the world , we’re seeing the best of the rich kids. Half the grid could easily be replaced by better drivers .
In a way I agree but not just because of rich kids - it's hard to root for drivers who have little or no charisma. Graham Hill seemed aristocratic but you knew he was in the Monaco casino all weekend, drinking and smoking and gambling. And then you had all the playboys on the grid, dating models and partying into the early morning after the race. Being an F1 driver was a globetrotting, rock star lifestyle.
Yup, though it's come full-cycle for what motorsport was pre-60s in that regard; hobby for the hyper rich. The evils of the tobacco industry aside, the likes of Marlboro, Camel, West, Mild Seven, Winfield etc have to be given credit for essentially funding everything as soon as young driver's have proven to have some level of talent in as little as karting or local championships to get them into open-seater feeder series and beyond from the 70s-00s. The sport would be more interesting if there was more than one path into the sport like times of old, than just the limited, hyper-exclusive F4-F3-F2 path. I'd rather see more complete drivers starting at older ages who've done rallying, touring cars, ice racing, ovals, endurance, sim racing, etc than 19 y/o's who've had everything handed to them on a platter. I think the last time we had someone from a completely different path to the rest was JP-Montoya, and look how he shook up the sport.
While I understand why the teams and FOM would do such a thing(money) it feels like us long time fans are getting the shit end of the stick: historic permanent circuits going away and teams shutting the door and pulling up the ladder behind them
That's why I felt the Monaco GP was like this just played out in a race (if you want to use that term as loosely as possible) - we're seeing 10 teams who are more concerned - consumed, even - with their position rather than looking at the bigger picture. We're just looking at the modern fashion of micromanagers - they will absolutely try and cut off anything superfluous and be a suffocating presence. I personally want no part in that kind of thinking.
Telling Andretti to buy a team when no team is actually available to buy is ludicrous and continues F1''s path of looking ridiculous to the fans. The next time someone is interviewed and says "well they should buy a team" the journalist should ask the following questions 1 And how long do they have to wait until one becomes available to buy 2 Basically you are expecting them to pay way over market share for a team to make other people rich 3 What are you going to tell the staff of the team who have been bought when they all get fired because you forced someone to buy a team they didn't want and that brought in staff they didn't need who were then fired. 4 Do you realise how stupid you have made F1 look to the world?
yes Formula1 is a business and these businesses have shareholders who have invested in said businesses and will want a return. Anyone who thinks Formula1 has growth ahead of it will have to pay a premium to own a piece of those growing future cash flows. Welcome to capitalism.
As awful as Bernie Ecclestone is, and I really can't believe I'm defending Bernie here (Jesus Christ the world's down bad in 2024), at least he was someone with experience as a team principle at Brabham, therefore actual experience within, and an emotional stake in the sport, albeit not much (this is Bernie we're talking about). With this Liberty Media lot... fuck knows what goes through their minds (only their wallets, I know) but clearly they don't have the sport's best interests in mind, there is no care or emotional stake in the sport at all with them.
@@solitaryclusterofneurons598they're corporate bean counters, ofcourse they don't have the best interest of the sport in mind. They just want to milk Formula 1 for all its worth and then bail.
@MrEo89 yes, but F1 is owned by an American company and America has anti-trust laws to prevent companies from forming monopolies and preventing competition.
@@ImReverseGiraffe But Formula 1 Management is based and incorporated in London, so they are subject to UK law. US lawmakers & regulators will be limited in what they can do without exceeding their juresdiction and failing to respect another country's legal sovreignty. (Yes the US regularly does that, and probably will again. But it will cause issues.)
Biggest thing I remember hearing growing up is “ a clenched first doesn’t let leave any room for more” or something along those lines. What happens when teams leave and there isn’t buyers willing to buy their spot. We’ve seen back in the past and motorsport in general suffered massive from the financial crisis. It’s similar to the charters in NASCAR having SHR close shop meaning 4 spots are available to purchase.
@@marklittle8805 The SHR charters will go to teams moving up (JR Motorsport) and teams needing a charter to add a car (Trackhouse for SVG; 23XL for Hamlin or RFK). There won't be a new team coming in, and the car count won't go any higher
My issue that I've mentioned before is that if everyone is treated like a franchise, then Red Bull MUST be forced to sell Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri/VCARB. There is no reason one group should control 2 franchises/4 cars while everyone else is restricted to 1 franchise/2 cars.
This is completely wrong. 1. Sport should not have "franchises" 2. A sport should never be owned, it should be run by a governing body which is a not for profit organisation. 3. No competitor in a sport should have a say in who enters the sport. That should be up to the governing body. Restricting the grid to 10 teams is an admission that the sport has failed and is no longer a sport. Formula must have 26 cars on the starting grid.
technically not a monopoly but a cartel. A cartel is a group of companies who agree to divide a market among themselves and work together to exclude outside competitors. Cartels are governed under the same anti-trust laws as are monopolistic practices, if anything judged more harshly because it is more difficult to argue that a cartel emerged by "natural" means; 32 companies can't all say they took over the market by producing the single best quality and value product. That said, in the US, every major sports league has some level of protection from these laws, largely on the recognized basis that the teams in a league have to be able to set the rules of play and schedule among themselves to make any sort of competition possible. This also allows for things like player drafts, which would be strictly outlawed in any other type of industry. however, along with that anti-trust protection comes the duty to not extend that cooperation into areas beyond the realm of competitive sports and ancillary marketing of licensed products. If, say, the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers baseball clubs were to begin selling bicycles and agree to not sell in each other's home territories, that protection would not cover the non-baseball related activities. F1 has that issue, with many of the teams owned and even operated in the case of Ferrari, by manufacturers of automobiles. These owners then use the success in F1 as marketing for their non-racing products, and as of now seem to be excluding Andretti and GM from that market. That's going to require at the very least a close look from judges, and at worst a call from US regulators for the manufacturers to divest the race teams in order to compete or market in the United States.
@@T.E.S.S. well, not F1, but Liberty Media might be. They're about to acquire Dorna Sport, the owners of MotoGP and World Superbikes. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the European Commission stipulates a term that they will only accept the deal if LM sells WSBK.
@@MinusMOD98 Lets also not forgot that court case in the US with the DOJ over what is already being considered as "Anti-Competitive Practices" (The same reason a company they own, Live Nation, is being sued). I can't recall the last an organization being in hot water on BOTH continents (Potentially) within sports and I don't imagine under THAT kind of pressure that it'll end well for Liberty Media
Sorry, but thats not true. Plenty of sports are like that and thrive. F1 never suffered from going to Sky, which is a private club. Not just sport, but look at Apple, they are essentially just that.
The fans getting forced out is already happening. A friend of mine went to Imola, he saw a lot of advertising hoardings and in his own words, "it's like they hated you for buying a ticket," The view his ticket afforded him got him about 150m of track visible. We're going to a Moto GP next year before Liberty ruin that too, possibly Mugello.
I'm so curious about the in person experience. I haven't been in years and while my experience in Montreal was amazing I now hear stories about Monza and Miami and fans having their drinks and food confiscated, and $10 bottles of water, and fans kicked off the circuit, and no freedom to check out different areas of the track during Thursday and Friday when most of the grandstands are empty anyway. In Montreal everyone brough beers in coolers and snacks and sat wherever they wanted during practice. You could still buy merch and food and drinks at the track and the prices were normal for an event. A bit overpriced but not insane. THen after the race they opened the barricades and some people ran to the podium while everyone else walked the track.
@@fallenshallrise He was in the grandtsand on the exit of Variante Alta, from the top of the hill there you should be able to see most of Rivazza, Bassa, Tamburello and Villeneuve, then you lose the cars as they enter Tosa and they come back into view when they come up the hill from Acque Minerali. Except they'd put up massive hoardings that blocked the view of the cars coming up the hill, more hoardings that blocked the view as they went down the hill towards Rivazza and more that blocked the entire view of the other side of the track. The cars came into view as they entered Variant Alta, then were gone again. It was apparently not a very good view.
I had a look at the ticket prices for the Monaco GP. A few years ago they were expensive but not what I would call unreasonable but for this years race they are what I would call unreasonably expensive. Liberty Media is coming across as using F1 as a cash cow and that cannot be good for the sport.
@@tomnewham1269 Yea how dare Liberty Media who bought the F1 commercial rights make money off it! They should just give things away for free and be nice!
At times, F1 reminds me of the Ultimate Warrior. Yes, an obscure 90's WWF reference. The build-up, the hype, and the excitement are amazing. Once the bell is rung, well........ The Red Bull dominance has not helped. F1 is a sport almost defined since the 80s with dominant teams, but this feels different somehow. Lando's win in Miami certainly made things a bit more interesting. Charles finally winning the procession at Monaco also helped. F1 does not need to be a spec series. That is what Indycar and F2/3/4 are for. It just needs to be competitive. After that, profit and growth will occur naturally, without a nasty aftertaste in the customer's mouths.
It's funny that it feels different, since Red Bull has already lost more races in the first 52 races of their "dominance" than Mercedes did in their first years of dominance, Mercedes had 56 poles in 59 races, and 31 1-2 finishes. So I guess statistically it _is_ different, but just a different direction than everyone might think.
I think one of the knock-on things that I see happening in F1 right now that reminds me of the whole Premier League BS is that you're seeing a more and more 'old boys' club in the actual drivers markets. With teams more and more locking in 'their boys' and current drivers being heavily preferred over newer drivers who aren't part of the existing bubble. With the effect that this year the only rookie driver actually making the grid being Bearman as an emergency replacement for Sainz. In part most likely due to a 'Drive to Survive' effect where teams are turning their drivers into brands as much as the teams are themselves, and not letting any other hotshot rookie getting a cut of the spoils that could be going to one of the boys. So it becomes all the more samey, a little more boring, and a little less competitive with every passing year. And whilst a guy like Checo undoubtedly brings in an obscene amount of money in terms of marketing/merchandise, one truly wonders if guys like him or Albon or Hulkenberg would've ever gotten such long careers in F1 in the past. Maybe Checo because of the money, but in the cutthroat "we need to perform or we need to make bank" world of earlier F1, a lot of these drivers probably would've been sacrificed long ago for the hot new prospect, or the big new bag of cash wearing a helmet. And the latter's coming from an unabashed Hülkenberg fanboy, who is more than happy to see him exist in F1. But at the same time, I genuinely wonder what the hell he's even doing in F1 after so many years of 'adequate', because F1's never been about adequate? You're either a fantastic driver, or have fantastic sponsors. But 'adequate' has never been in a team's vocabulary. Where F1 is going, with it all being turned into an Americanized and closed-off franchise system, it's all a bit incestuous in nature. The rich get richer, and there's a horde of fans trying to tell themselves and others that this is fine. It also makes me worry about MotoGP, the rights of which has been bought by Liberty from Dorna this year, because I more than expect the same cycle (no pun intended) to start happening there.
It’s funny that they claim it’s worth X billion. Because the real value is always what the market will accept. So if nobody is selling. It’s equally worthless and worth billions.
Any chance a Martin Brundle video ? 65 today & still going strong. (I know it will require alot of research but I think it will be well worth it) Most people only know him as a commentator, but his story is so layered. He went toe to toe with Senna in the lower formula's, won a le mans24, a daytona24, suffered atlease 4 crashes that he had no business walking away from & slipped seamlessly into the commentary box beside the legend that is/was Murray
To add to the premier league analogy (or maybe I missed it), not only do the bottom 3 teams get increased revenue from being in the Premier League, they get "Parachute Payments", an extra payment when they're relegate to make up for the reduced revenues for not being the Prem. This maes it even more likely they'll come back up the following season. Two of the three promoted teams from this year's Championship were in the Prem last season, Ipswich being the outlier.
Tbf the 2 promoted sides that were relegated had been in the premier league for more than 1 season. In Leicester’s case, they were in the league for almost a decade
@@wibbers01 well neither have done it for a couple of years. Burnley might be the new one. Depends on the manager they get with kompany gone. Next season’s championship is going to be interesting with whose come down as I don’t think all 3 will be back up there, especially Sheffield United
If the teams truly do not want to add teams for the fear of finishing outside the top 10 for prize money, then the FIA should stick it to them by mandating teams run a third car (on the same budgets) for test/young or female drivers. Fans want more cars/action on track, teams dont want the risk of falling outside the top 10 - potentially a win/win. On a side note -change the damn size of the cars. Reduce the regs by 20% - make them smaller, more powerful, less topside aero - it should be a physical challenge - we've all seen Verstappen almost asleep at the wheel at times - give the drivers a hard time
That would be great. 30 cars. Drop 5 in pre-qualifying on Friday. Lower grid teams would have to make sure to have a qualifying ace on the team or risk having all 3 cars miss the race.
The classic cash now think later This will hurt the sport AND the veiwership long term and sooner than they might think The WEC is showing how important it is to think about the competition first and alow as many people in as posible But oh well, the bubble is pretty much already busting, DTS was a flop last season and people are getting bored and tired of how curent F1 works, and how clunky the cars are, added to the lack of relevant technology to consumers OR actual inovation this era of the sport is doomed I am not kidding when I say the FIA might aswell let go of Liberty Media delusions and each o e do their own league, not like the FIA is the brightest either but I am so sick and tired of the amount of drama
We've already got an old boys club with how the teams and Liberty have treated Andretti. If they secure the old boys club with a new concord agreement we will have a shit show on our hands. We need more competition, more shifts from generation to generation, more upward mobility for the bottom teams and a system in which the car you have is easier to improve in order to move to the top.
NEW fans becoming disillusioned with RB dominance would be more accurate, these fans whining about RB missed out on the absolute joy of watching the same thing from Mercedes from 14-20
At least mercedes had actual competition bsck then, 2017 ferrari were up there for the first half, 2016 while it was all mercedes it was between both drivers. None of those years were anything close to red bull last year. I was one of the ones that complained about merc dominance at the time, and now I realised what I was missing. Yes they were ahead all the time, but they had more challenge...
@@nitelast "Actual competition". Mercedes had 56 poles in their first 59 races in their dominant period, and 31 1-2 finishes. Red Bull has fallen short by every meaningful statistical metric of how dominant Mercedes was in their first three seasons.
I think another thing bringing more people and girls in especially is the pull of social media and seeing the drivers personalities so they can connect more with them
Saying there can't be any new teams just makes the whole thing look bad. Part of what makes every racing series work, and what adds interest, is that new people can show up with a new team and get racing. Look at Group C back in the day, manufacturers were basically shoving each other out of the way to get cars on the grid. Course that went off a cliff when F1 started whining that another series can't be bigger than it is. And for those who weren't around back then, yes Group C was at least as big as F1. So the FIA killed it.
And I keep on thinking that wouldn't it be great if Indycar could swoop back in and hike back up the ladder of importance for open wheeled racing. Then I realize that Indycar has the horrible inability to let people know they even exist. Sure they have such a pretty field of dreams, but if you don't know where it's at and what time they will be playing, how will anyone know to even show up... Tbh, Indycar has it's own little Good Ol' Boys club as well, being how Penske and Ganassi seem to hot-potato pretty much everything in it, but at least they're not blocking new teams, and at least they have an opportunity to succeed. It's like the only places that are doing business the right way in motorsports is Sports Car racing, WEC/IMSA has been the only places they've figured it out. Honestly I could care less about F1, honestly having a sim race on a sim video game is more entertaining to watch. And all the drama BS has long-since gotten old (which Indycar seems to be following F1's footsteps lately).
Serious questions. Apart from providing entertainment and making Liberty Media, some teams and drivers enormously wealthy, what benefits does Formula One actually provide? Do Liberty Media and the Teams really care about the fans?
I see a form of “ start and park” possibly entering the chat. when teams realize they can put in little to no effort and still make a ton of cash that could signal the death of F1
@@3twelveworkshop312 I spaced and forgot my ultimate point lol: Optics are not remotely close. NASCAR once had enough competitors and prize money that a team could fly completely under the radar on tv. F1 hasn't been like that in 30 years, if ever. There are few enough teams that you can see what each one is doing at all times. If an F1 team started entering races and deliberately sitting out at the first opportunity, it'd be newsworthy. No team at that level will ever back out that readily; they wouldn't be allowed to.
Top flight football has prioritized money for at least the last 3 decades to the detriment of the sport. In recent years F1 has started to go the same way.
Sometimes I fantasise about what F1 could be if they didn't just chase money, and instead made their number one priority the sport? What if effort and support was made to keep Brabham, Jordan, Arrows, (actual) Lotus, Minardi, Tyrrell, Jordan, Ligier/Prost, and lets face it, Williams along with Andretti today, in the sport as opposed just chasing manufacturers, tech companies, and the general lowest common denominator? I'd rather see a grid with those 10 teams plus Ferrari and McLaren than today's grid; y'know, teams run by people who's literal dreams is to win in F1. None of this B-team bullshit.
It makes my decision to completely ignore what's going on in formula 1 this year seem like I got out at the right time. Now, even if Andretti does get in (a criterion for me taking an interest in the sport again in the future), I might not watch anyway because the snobbery and elitism that put me off will not have gone away.
The bubble will burst and they'll be begging andretti to join. I hate the term franchises. Liberty have done some great things since taking ownership, but literally closing the shop and removing any chance for a new team to come on and compete just doesn't sit well with me. Money is important, but so is the show. We’ll never have the excitement of a new constructor turning up again.
I've grown so used to watching NASCAR and Indycar double down on terrible decisions/piss in the wind to prop up short-term fan growth that I can't fathom Liberty asking Andretti to come back lol, my imagination is broken
The bubble bursting is likely to make the teams not want Andretti even more because at this moment Andretti simply hasn't shown that it can actually bring money into the sport. Almost all their strong sponsor relationships are either already in F1 so if they went with Andretti it would be pulling money away from the other teams OR they are more regional companies that work fine for a US only racing series but an international one where sponsorship fees are significantly higher they don't, as a company you aren't going to spend the kind of money needed to sponsor a team when most of the exposure is being done to people who can't become customers. It's great that Andretti likes showing its commitment to building a team and a car BUT where I feel they killed any chance was not 1) Committing to refuse to enter negations with any sponsor that is sponsoring another team between their application and the end of their first season and 2) Not having signed letters of intent from big international firms that do not sponsor another team, These two things wield have put teams at ease knowing the Andretti name wouldn't pull away their sponsors and would have highlighted the kind of money they would be bringing into the sport that would ultimately help everyone
@@laurenmp7486 If they need the other teams to be onboard with them entering then it absolutely is part of their job to show they aren't going to cannibalise these teams income. And you say there are 'tons of sponsors' but there really isn't. If there was you wouldn't see paid drivers, you wouldn't see all the shady sponsors you get in F1 like Rich Energy or right now Stake/Kick whose whole business strategy is to pay streamers who are often popular with kids vast amounts of money to stream on kick and then give them free bets so they can push gamberling and Stake onto kids and you wouldn't see most of the sponsor spots on the Haas being the words Haas. There are certainly multinational companies especially some US ones that are untapped but its would have been useful if they had rocked up with letters of intent showing they didn't need to drag sponsorship from existing teams sponsors, if they could have shown say an Apple, A Disney, A Netflix as a title sponsor and dozens of small multinationals it would have had to have helped ease the concerns of some teams
The entire idea of... "you were here when we bought the sport... so you're protected by us now" is the vibe I get from Liberty... and I hate it. Allow 12 teams and just get it over with.
What they've discovered and are now implementing in F1 is something which slowly became known in North American sports under the franchise system over the last couple of decades: that the real value and profit in a sport comes not from the yearly revenues generated by a team, but by the increase in the value of a franchise over a number of years. The recent sale of the NHL's Ottawa Senators franchise is a case in point. The Senators franchise was originally granted in 1992 for a fee of $45M. The franchise has not been a profitable one at any point in its subsequent history and while often having good teams on the ice, has also had to sell off or deal away good players because of lack of revenues. And in recent years, the team has been a poor one, even on the ice, missing post season play for many years. Yet it sold this year for close to $1B. So even one of the poorer performing team in North America's least popular major league is worth what F1 is hoping to value its teams/franchises at. What they do seem to be missing is that by expanding, and setting a high price for new franchises, as the NHL did in its recent expansions to Seattle & Las Vegas, they actually raised the values of existing teams. Before the recent NHL expansions, nobody thought of the Ottawa Senators as a billion dollar business.
The things that Millward said are on point. Each agreement makes Formula 1 less of a sport. I must say that I don't like the American sports league model. It makes official the silly entertainment aspect of the sport. Formula 1 haven't been a true sport for some time, as there are no longer pre-qualifications that any CAR could enter (if it is within the formula rules). The access "league" of Formula 1, now called Formula 2, had been used by teams wanting to step into Formula 1 and now it isn't even working for drivers. When the sport becomes completely Americanized is probably when I lose interest in it again.
The solution is really simple: charters. Hear me out before you laugh. Current agreement allows for 13 2 car teams but F1 and the teams want to limit the number of teams to 10 due to greed. Fine, but with a few twists. The 10 current teams receive charters. The grid is open to any 2 car team wanting to join for the whole season but will not receive any end of year payout but will receive points and payouts for the WDC and WCC accordingly. This preserves the current teams’ bonus payout money. As a result of not receiving end of year bonus money, the anti-dilution fee is done away. Now, any team which finishes in WCC ahead of the lowest placed chartered team for 3 straight years will now receive a new charter having proved their competitiveness. This allows for grid expansion, keeps current team pockets full, and gets new teams to prove their worth. Simple solution
That’s sort of how it used to be. New teams could enter and compete at any time, as long as they could prove financial viability. But they weren’t part of the existing Concorde agreement and thus wouldn’t get any prize money or revenue sharing from it. Stewart GP (Now Redbull) joined like this, living entirely on sponsorship for the first couple years. McLaren and Tyrell refused to sign the agreement and went without payment voluntarily.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 true. But the old way didn’t really provide a pathway to earning more money because of not being around to sign the CA. This way does that while answering the current teams’ critiques over any new teams entering the grid, mainly being competitive and cutting down their share of the pie.
I wonder how many people grew up watching F1 trackside many years ago and thought "this is what i want to be a part of, what i want do when i grow up" with a twinkle in their eye and follow through whether they were a driver or a team owner. If these changes go through, we will never have that again, and thats very sad as i love the whole "have a go heroes" thing when they really have a go and do well. It would truly be a sad thing to kill off 😔
I think we're honestly going to start seeing a scenario where Alpine/Haas will simply start phoning it in when they no longer become interested in the sport. And if Liberty won't actually enforce a level of quality, they can effectively just run a skeleton crew, slash costs to ridiculous degrees, and then make a tidy profit off the guaranteed money they're set to get. When teams are literally going to start running a profit purely by showing up, you're going to see the lesser teams who know they can't win start simply counting the money rather than fielding proper racing outfits.
I think the 2026 Concorde Agreement should remove the cost cap. I don't want any part of F1 raking in enormous sums of money that they're not going to spend. That doesn't help anything or anyone but the owners.
What makes football unlike any other sport is two things. Nearly worldwide appeal. Also international competition, directly in case of European club tournaments and indirectly with national team tournaments involving everyones favorite players. UEFA Champions League and lower European club tournaments are extremely profitable for teams involved. That places the teams that make their way to the Euro games make way more money than teams limited to their national league and national cup. English Premier League is far from the most affected country when it comes to Euro games messing up the national leagues. Smaller countries with smaller leagues are far more affected by money in Euro games.
If the teams are locked in then "buying" a team and all it's assets, changing the name over the door is nothing more than a wall papering exercise. It's still generic team number 1/2/3...etc they are buying warts and all in an attempt to compete. Part of the charm of a team entering, having a go, live, die what whatever was you can get behind the plucky underdog. That no longer exists. We will never see another Jordan, March, Layton House etc again. The Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapmans etc are no longer a thing. The cost cap pushing everything together, means an underdog can longer exist. It's all carbon copy operations now. It's not as if the engineers, the giant faceless auto company or giant faceless sponsor are the stars, its the drivers maybe the team principles. Andretti would have been the last of the have a go hero's. People want it not only because more drivers on the grid but they want to see someone come in, in this case an American, a big name American and show what they can do. Like Haas there is no reason that they will go belly up like Manor/Virgin/Murussia, Lotus/Caterham, HRT and even if they did....who cares? The sport has always had a history of teams coming and going, switching hands etc. but we all know the reason for the valuations is the exclusive boys club. When there are 10 entries you can name your price for the buyout because that piece of paper is a scarce commodity. Thing is tho, even if they allow another team or two, be it special invitation or some ridiculous fee or even very very very strict entrance requirements the value for the teams already there would still hold. They can loosen their grip, open the grid up a bit and still have their cake and eat it. I donno tho, the new rules have caused a convergence in teams performance. We don't have the dirty air problem from yesteryear to the same extent. We still have large lumbering cars tho, debate of not engines and DRS that can be solved plus the new issue of over prescriptive, paint by numbers rules in response to overtaking. Race on Sunday, Sling Mud on Monday, Revise the result on Tuesday, Amend the rules on Wednesday, Press conference on Thursday, Free Practice and think up more punishments Friday, Qualify and apply punishments on Saturday rinse and repeat. Drive to survive has added nothing to the sport apart from revisionist history and attempting to create drama out of nothing. After you last few videos I've been checking out the BTCC again and Endurance racing. F1 has improved in some areas but I think it's the drama the strangle hold over the rules that's killing it for me
F1 should become open entry without prize money, the cost cap shouldn't have salaries in it but then drop the cost cap to 20-40 million. Prize money should go to top 10 constructors like in the past and lastly open the technical regulations except mandate some safety regulations and dimensions like maximum 4.5m in length and 1.6m in width
'Nascarman History' Just did a YT video on Danny Ongias, the Flying Hawaiian who did race The Indy 500, F1 and Top Fuel Nitro back in the day. What does this have to do with the agreement? Absolutely nothing. I'm not aware of any other driver with this CV.
Not completely identical but Jim Clark also had a very diverse CV. Sports cars, touring cars, NASCAR, Formula One, Indycar, rallying. I even encountered a picture of him sitting in a slingshot as a promo shoot I imagine. And Jim was quite competitive in everything he ran
@@sakshamsharma5429 No doubt about that. Jim Clark was one of the best. Imagine if he hadn't died young. I'm from NC and attended quite a few races at Rockingham where he took a turn at NASCAR. Also impressed by Surtees who won the TT seven times, Then the F1 title.
Nascar has a charter system that has some similarities with the f1 system. If you have a chartered entry, you’re guaranteed a spot on the grid for every race of the season and you get a guaranteed performance based payout for every race and season. Sound familiar? Sure there’s differences in field size and team rules among other things but it’s the same principle, guaranteed money for existing teams and a barrier of entry for new ones. There’s only so many charters so to get one you have to buy into a team or wait for one to close or downside. That being said, nascar allows teams to attempt to race without a charter knowing they don’t have guaranteed payouts. Could formula 1 adopt a similar contingency that would allow the grid to expand without taking anything away from the current stake holding ones?
The directors of F1 and high level management should stop attempting to run a race series and just go into politics; they’ve proven over the decades that they’d likely be more successful at politics than attempting to remain relevant in what they do now.
If the rules allow for 26 cars to be on the grid (13 teams) then 3 more entries should be allowed. Plain & simple. The prize money can & should be sorted out regardless.
this "new" agreement has me worried for 2 reasons 1 - it's going to FULLY americanise the sport (which a lot of long time fans like me don't want) and 2 - it's counter intuitive in allowing new teams to join but only if the pay absurd money to buy out an existing "franchise" as aidan put it
I get your arguments about this but whats sad is ticket prices in both PL and f1 get more and more insane and exclusive. I dont think ill ever afford going to an f1 race since i live in norway i also got travel expenses plus an insane ticketing price
Is it just me or this entire thing was bound to happen without non-American promomoters since the sport opened up to social media, loosen up the copyright restriction, and Drive to Survive is a thing?
I've heard about the Lola/Larrousse admin mistake and for sure the admin mistake happened but all record books (not just wikipedia) still shows them as 6th in the constructor standings. I know they were initially in trouble for it but did the disqualification stand? Perhaps they were allowed to keep 6th in the standings but the money went to Ligier as if they got 10th?
Haas worth a billion dollars? No chance, Greg Maffei's utterly deluded. (And completely off his rocker if he thinks the teams will work together for the common good, and help the slower teams become competitive enough to start challengine them.) Haas have very little in the way of capital assets compared to other teams, just an operating base and limited manufacturing. They chose an operating model where R&D and manufacturing of the chassis & major components is contracted out. If (/when) anyone buys them, they are really just buying their F1 entry (worth $500M tops, maybe as low as $300M). If a new owner wants to have a self-sufficient F1 team they will need to make a major capital investment in new facilities. Haas' operating base on a Banbury industrial estate has no room to expand, so building completely new facilities would be neccessary. And if the new owner wants to continue the current (dead-end) operating model, they'll have to negotiate with Ferrari & Dallara and hope they're feeling in a good mood. Buying Haas could make sense for Andretti, if they are still planning to have their R&D and manufacturing all done at their HQ in the US. (For now lets ignore why that's an incredibly bad idea and doomed to fail, rather like Michael's F1 career as a driver.) But again they would only be buying Haas for their spot on the grid. (If the Andrettis really are interested they should get in fast before the price gets inflated any further, and be prepared to walk away if Gene Haas believes Greg Maffei's hype.)
Too bad Elon blew all his pocket money on that microblog cesspool, he could have bought Ferrari and turned into the Tesla team and annoyed the world as much for a bargain price. Oh how I would have laughed and laughed.
You got confused, I got confused. You got talking and I missed the point completely. Still I don't mind the Soccer references. It sounds like you believe that F1 will end up like that too. Best part of this episode was the music. The Liberty Media style of development is bad, The FIA alternatives are worse.
I see Ferrari will still end up keeping their bonus under this agreement . Andretti should try and buy sack-happy Alpine (which is just a complete shower at the moment) or Haas. The recent wins for Lando and Charles in Miami and Monaco were much needed.
I've stopped watching F1 for the first time since I started following it in the late 1970's. I feared that F1 would not be the same without Bernie and it is everything for the worse. The Americanisation of F1 with Liberty - who have no respect for its history as they have no understanding of it - has turned the sport into a complete shitshow. F1 is not a sport, it's all about protectionism. Once the public have enough, it won't be easy to get them back - me included.
I feel like Maffei is merely inflating the price tag of the smaller teams rather than increasing the value to make F1 look like it's in a stronger place than it actually is.
Be careful what you wish for, Liberty Media. I can easily see global events driving down the value of car makers and/or F1 teams2008
I have mentioned that multiple times in the F1 Sub-Reddit. Wait until the next collapse. The teams, and Liberty Media will be singing a much different tune.
Hell, I remember Toyota being asked to change up their program because Peugeot decided to up, and leave before the season even commenced.
It's about time they put the whole 'road relevance' thing to bed, because lets be honest, the days of 'personal cars' are slowly coming to an end whether we like it or not, and at best, should personal cars exist for the long term future, they're just going to be soulless Tesla's, Kia's, and nondescript EV appliances, nothing of authentic sporting aspirations.
It'll never happen as F1's owners only care about money, but I'd be on the phone to Cosworth, Ilmor, Judd, etc, and ask them what they would want out of F1 engine regulations and what they can supply with their budgets, draw up an agreement, then tell Mercedes/Renault/Honda/Ferrari/Audi "comply to this or fuck off".
The ticket prices and stuff at US races are already an issue. And the fact Liberty is hyping them as events that oh hey there's a race too. You can't run a racing series as a spectacle where the race is incidental to the weekend.
Liberty Media already is in hot water in the US, what with LiveNation being investigated by the US Congress and the USDOJ, and now with the Andretti affair also being noticed by the two aforementioned US government entities... remember what happened to FIFA when the USDOJ investigated that organization... it wasn't pretty, let me tell you.
@@kristoffermangila And the common denominator between Liberty Media and Live Nation: Anti-Competitive practices. And with Liberty Media being an American Organization and them rejecting Andretti of all names, you sorta get the sense the DOJ weren't gonna ignore this issue (Especially when said entity literally owns a company being sued for Anti-Competitive practices). Suddenly, Dorna being bought out by Liberty Media is looking alot less likely...
I’d say a bigger problem is that, as a fan, it’s really hard to root for billionaire’s children. We’re not really seeing the best 20 drivers in the world , we’re seeing the best of the rich kids. Half the grid could easily be replaced by better drivers .
F1 since 1982 hasn't been about the Driver, it's about Engineers and people with a lot of money burning it like Joker in Dark Night
In a way I agree but not just because of rich kids - it's hard to root for drivers who have little or no charisma. Graham Hill seemed aristocratic but you knew he was in the Monaco casino all weekend, drinking and smoking and gambling. And then you had all the playboys on the grid, dating models and partying into the early morning after the race. Being an F1 driver was a globetrotting, rock star lifestyle.
@@fallenshallrise Most of the grid literally mocked Hesketh in the 70s for being all those things... so how was everyone like that?
So how many sons of billionaires are on the grid?
Yup, though it's come full-cycle for what motorsport was pre-60s in that regard; hobby for the hyper rich.
The evils of the tobacco industry aside, the likes of Marlboro, Camel, West, Mild Seven, Winfield etc have to be given credit for essentially funding everything as soon as young driver's have proven to have some level of talent in as little as karting or local championships to get them into open-seater feeder series and beyond from the 70s-00s.
The sport would be more interesting if there was more than one path into the sport like times of old, than just the limited, hyper-exclusive F4-F3-F2 path. I'd rather see more complete drivers starting at older ages who've done rallying, touring cars, ice racing, ovals, endurance, sim racing, etc than 19 y/o's who've had everything handed to them on a platter. I think the last time we had someone from a completely different path to the rest was JP-Montoya, and look how he shook up the sport.
While I understand why the teams and FOM would do such a thing(money) it feels like us long time fans are getting the shit end of the stick: historic permanent circuits going away and teams shutting the door and pulling up the ladder behind them
No one cares about fans until it's too late
My main problem with the "concorde" agreement is that it doesn't contain concorde.....
That plane was retired in 2003, though. Meaning that this year it will be old enough to drink.
@CyanRooper it was old enough to drink in 2021
Real
The literal meaning of the word or the aircraft 😂
@@yodaslovetoy some of us are allowed to drink at 18 😏
That's why I felt the Monaco GP was like this just played out in a race (if you want to use that term as loosely as possible) - we're seeing 10 teams who are more concerned - consumed, even - with their position rather than looking at the bigger picture. We're just looking at the modern fashion of micromanagers - they will absolutely try and cut off anything superfluous and be a suffocating presence. I personally want no part in that kind of thinking.
They want to build for the future by sticking to the past.
The last time there was a team on the grid that wasn't one of the current 10 was 2016.
I miss Manor
Telling Andretti to buy a team when no team is actually available to buy is ludicrous and continues F1''s path of looking ridiculous to the fans.
The next time someone is interviewed and says "well they should buy a team" the journalist should ask the following questions
1 And how long do they have to wait until one becomes available to buy
2 Basically you are expecting them to pay way over market share for a team to make other people rich
3 What are you going to tell the staff of the team who have been bought when they all get fired because you forced someone to buy a team they didn't want and that brought in staff they didn't need who were then fired.
4 Do you realise how stupid you have made F1 look to the world?
yes Formula1 is a business and these businesses have shareholders who have invested in said businesses and will want a return. Anyone who thinks Formula1 has growth ahead of it will have to pay a premium to own a piece of those growing future cash flows. Welcome to capitalism.
As awful as Bernie Ecclestone is, and I really can't believe I'm defending Bernie here (Jesus Christ the world's down bad in 2024), at least he was someone with experience as a team principle at Brabham, therefore actual experience within, and an emotional stake in the sport, albeit not much (this is Bernie we're talking about). With this Liberty Media lot... fuck knows what goes through their minds (only their wallets, I know) but clearly they don't have the sport's best interests in mind, there is no care or emotional stake in the sport at all with them.
@@solitaryclusterofneurons598they're corporate bean counters, ofcourse they don't have the best interest of the sport in mind. They just want to milk Formula 1 for all its worth and then bail.
@MrEo89 yes, but F1 is owned by an American company and America has anti-trust laws to prevent companies from forming monopolies and preventing competition.
@@ImReverseGiraffe But Formula 1 Management is based and incorporated in London, so they are subject to UK law. US lawmakers & regulators will be limited in what they can do without exceeding their juresdiction and failing to respect another country's legal sovreignty. (Yes the US regularly does that, and probably will again. But it will cause issues.)
Biggest thing I remember hearing growing up is “ a clenched first doesn’t let leave any room for more” or something along those lines. What happens when teams leave and there isn’t buyers willing to buy their spot. We’ve seen back in the past and motorsport in general suffered massive from the financial crisis. It’s similar to the charters in NASCAR having SHR close shop meaning 4 spots are available to purchase.
@@marklittle8805 The SHR charters will go to teams moving up (JR Motorsport) and teams needing a charter to add a car (Trackhouse for SVG; 23XL for Hamlin or RFK). There won't be a new team coming in, and the car count won't go any higher
Whatever the idiom you're trying to recall is, that's a brilliant one. I'm gonna have to remember that.
So basically, F1 is creating a massive bubble that can pop?! GREAT smh.
It's more of a question of when it will pop
My issue that I've mentioned before is that if everyone is treated like a franchise, then Red Bull MUST be forced to sell Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri/VCARB. There is no reason one group should control 2 franchises/4 cars while everyone else is restricted to 1 franchise/2 cars.
I don't think they are restricted to one team. If Mercedes wants to buy Williams, FOM won't bat an eye.
Just rename it the, “2026 Netflix Agreement” and be done with it…
the Larrousse-Ligier thing was in 1990 for those wondering
This is completely wrong.
1. Sport should not have "franchises"
2. A sport should never be owned, it should be run by a governing body which is a not for profit organisation.
3. No competitor in a sport should have a say in who enters the sport. That should be up to the governing body.
Restricting the grid to 10 teams is an admission that the sport has failed and is no longer a sport. Formula must have 26 cars on the starting grid.
To someone looking at F1 from the outside, it appears to be a monopoly.
Because it is.
technically not a monopoly but a cartel. A cartel is a group of companies who agree to divide a market among themselves and work together to exclude outside competitors. Cartels are governed under the same anti-trust laws as are monopolistic practices, if anything judged more harshly because it is more difficult to argue that a cartel emerged by "natural" means; 32 companies can't all say they took over the market by producing the single best quality and value product.
That said, in the US, every major sports league has some level of protection from these laws, largely on the recognized basis that the teams in a league have to be able to set the rules of play and schedule among themselves to make any sort of competition possible. This also allows for things like player drafts, which would be strictly outlawed in any other type of industry.
however, along with that anti-trust protection comes the duty to not extend that cooperation into areas beyond the realm of competitive sports and ancillary marketing of licensed products. If, say, the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers baseball clubs were to begin selling bicycles and agree to not sell in each other's home territories, that protection would not cover the non-baseball related activities.
F1 has that issue, with many of the teams owned and even operated in the case of Ferrari, by manufacturers of automobiles. These owners then use the success in F1 as marketing for their non-racing products, and as of now seem to be excluding Andretti and GM from that market. That's going to require at the very least a close look from judges, and at worst a call from US regulators for the manufacturers to divest the race teams in order to compete or market in the United States.
you don't know what a monopoly is then
@@T.E.S.S. well, not F1, but Liberty Media might be. They're about to acquire Dorna Sport, the owners of MotoGP and World Superbikes. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the European Commission stipulates a term that they will only accept the deal if LM sells WSBK.
@@MinusMOD98 Lets also not forgot that court case in the US with the DOJ over what is already being considered as "Anti-Competitive Practices" (The same reason a company they own, Live Nation, is being sued). I can't recall the last an organization being in hot water on BOTH continents (Potentially) within sports and I don't imagine under THAT kind of pressure that it'll end well for Liberty Media
If you want to be a private club, don't be surprised if the public stops watching.
Sorry, but thats not true. Plenty of sports are like that and thrive. F1 never suffered from going to Sky, which is a private club. Not just sport, but look at Apple, they are essentially just that.
Thing is the public isn't going to stop watching though.
@@alancx523 "F1 never suffered from going to Sky"
...which is why they now have their own coverage via F1TV.
@@teabagtowers3823 yeah that sort of hubris is the exact problem
@@rars0n nonsense. Thats about money and control. F1TV is another private club.
Do you people ever think this through?
The fans getting forced out is already happening. A friend of mine went to Imola, he saw a lot of advertising hoardings and in his own words, "it's like they hated you for buying a ticket,"
The view his ticket afforded him got him about 150m of track visible. We're going to a Moto GP next year before Liberty ruin that too, possibly Mugello.
I'm so curious about the in person experience. I haven't been in years and while my experience in Montreal was amazing I now hear stories about Monza and Miami and fans having their drinks and food confiscated, and $10 bottles of water, and fans kicked off the circuit, and no freedom to check out different areas of the track during Thursday and Friday when most of the grandstands are empty anyway.
In Montreal everyone brough beers in coolers and snacks and sat wherever they wanted during practice. You could still buy merch and food and drinks at the track and the prices were normal for an event. A bit overpriced but not insane. THen after the race they opened the barricades and some people ran to the podium while everyone else walked the track.
@@fallenshallrise He was in the grandtsand on the exit of Variante Alta, from the top of the hill there you should be able to see most of Rivazza, Bassa, Tamburello and Villeneuve, then you lose the cars as they enter Tosa and they come back into view when they come up the hill from Acque Minerali. Except they'd put up massive hoardings that blocked the view of the cars coming up the hill, more hoardings that blocked the view as they went down the hill towards Rivazza and more that blocked the entire view of the other side of the track. The cars came into view as they entered Variant Alta, then were gone again. It was apparently not a very good view.
I had a look at the ticket prices for the Monaco GP. A few years ago they were expensive but not what I would call unreasonable but for this years race they are what I would call unreasonably expensive. Liberty Media is coming across as using F1 as a cash cow and that cannot be good for the sport.
What's wrong with advertising hoardings?
@@tomnewham1269 Yea how dare Liberty Media who bought the F1 commercial rights make money off it! They should just give things away for free and be nice!
At times, F1 reminds me of the Ultimate Warrior. Yes, an obscure 90's WWF reference.
The build-up, the hype, and the excitement are amazing. Once the bell is rung, well........
The Red Bull dominance has not helped. F1 is a sport almost defined since the 80s with dominant teams, but this feels different somehow.
Lando's win in Miami certainly made things a bit more interesting. Charles finally winning the procession at Monaco also helped.
F1 does not need to be a spec series. That is what Indycar and F2/3/4 are for. It just needs to be competitive. After that, profit and growth will occur naturally, without a nasty aftertaste in the customer's mouths.
It's funny that it feels different, since Red Bull has already lost more races in the first 52 races of their "dominance" than Mercedes did in their first years of dominance, Mercedes had 56 poles in 59 races, and 31 1-2 finishes. So I guess statistically it _is_ different, but just a different direction than everyone might think.
I think one of the knock-on things that I see happening in F1 right now that reminds me of the whole Premier League BS is that you're seeing a more and more 'old boys' club in the actual drivers markets. With teams more and more locking in 'their boys' and current drivers being heavily preferred over newer drivers who aren't part of the existing bubble. With the effect that this year the only rookie driver actually making the grid being Bearman as an emergency replacement for Sainz. In part most likely due to a 'Drive to Survive' effect where teams are turning their drivers into brands as much as the teams are themselves, and not letting any other hotshot rookie getting a cut of the spoils that could be going to one of the boys.
So it becomes all the more samey, a little more boring, and a little less competitive with every passing year. And whilst a guy like Checo undoubtedly brings in an obscene amount of money in terms of marketing/merchandise, one truly wonders if guys like him or Albon or Hulkenberg would've ever gotten such long careers in F1 in the past. Maybe Checo because of the money, but in the cutthroat "we need to perform or we need to make bank" world of earlier F1, a lot of these drivers probably would've been sacrificed long ago for the hot new prospect, or the big new bag of cash wearing a helmet.
And the latter's coming from an unabashed Hülkenberg fanboy, who is more than happy to see him exist in F1. But at the same time, I genuinely wonder what the hell he's even doing in F1 after so many years of 'adequate', because F1's never been about adequate? You're either a fantastic driver, or have fantastic sponsors. But 'adequate' has never been in a team's vocabulary.
Where F1 is going, with it all being turned into an Americanized and closed-off franchise system, it's all a bit incestuous in nature. The rich get richer, and there's a horde of fans trying to tell themselves and others that this is fine.
It also makes me worry about MotoGP, the rights of which has been bought by Liberty from Dorna this year, because I more than expect the same cycle (no pun intended) to start happening there.
It’s funny that they claim it’s worth X billion. Because the real value is always what the market will accept. So if nobody is selling. It’s equally worthless and worth billions.
Schroedinger’s valuation.
Any chance a Martin Brundle video ?
65 today & still going strong.
(I know it will require alot of research but I think it will be well worth it)
Most people only know him as a commentator, but his story is so layered.
He went toe to toe with Senna in the lower formula's, won a le mans24, a daytona24, suffered atlease 4 crashes that he had no business walking away from & slipped seamlessly into the commentary box beside the legend that is/was Murray
To add to the premier league analogy (or maybe I missed it), not only do the bottom 3 teams get increased revenue from being in the Premier League, they get "Parachute Payments", an extra payment when they're relegate to make up for the reduced revenues for not being the Prem. This maes it even more likely they'll come back up the following season. Two of the three promoted teams from this year's Championship were in the Prem last season, Ipswich being the outlier.
Tbf the 2 promoted sides that were relegated had been in the premier league for more than 1 season. In Leicester’s case, they were in the league for almost a decade
@@tombardsley3081 True, but how many times have we seen a relegated team come straight back up? West Brom and Norwich seemed to constantly yoyo.
@@wibbers01 well neither have done it for a couple of years. Burnley might be the new one. Depends on the manager they get with kompany gone. Next season’s championship is going to be interesting with whose come down as I don’t think all 3 will be back up there, especially Sheffield United
If the teams truly do not want to add teams for the fear of finishing outside the top 10 for prize money, then the FIA should stick it to them by mandating teams run a third car (on the same budgets) for test/young or female drivers. Fans want more cars/action on track, teams dont want the risk of falling outside the top 10 - potentially a win/win.
On a side note -change the damn size of the cars. Reduce the regs by 20% - make them smaller, more powerful, less topside aero - it should be a physical challenge - we've all seen Verstappen almost asleep at the wheel at times - give the drivers a hard time
They don't really need to be more powerful; anything past the 1000hp mark is usually diminishing returns, but yes.
As Lotus proved, drop the weight and your effective power goes up. The engines are fine. It is the bodies that need work.
That would be great. 30 cars. Drop 5 in pre-qualifying on Friday. Lower grid teams would have to make sure to have a qualifying ace on the team or risk having all 3 cars miss the race.
They bring a spare car anyways. Just because they do not build it does not mean it is not there.
The classic cash now think later
This will hurt the sport AND the veiwership long term and sooner than they might think
The WEC is showing how important it is to think about the competition first and alow as many people in as posible
But oh well, the bubble is pretty much already busting, DTS was a flop last season and people are getting bored and tired of how curent F1 works, and how clunky the cars are, added to the lack of relevant technology to consumers OR actual inovation this era of the sport is doomed
I am not kidding when I say the FIA might aswell let go of Liberty Media delusions and each o e do their own league, not like the FIA is the brightest either but I am so sick and tired of the amount of drama
We've already got an old boys club with how the teams and Liberty have treated Andretti. If they secure the old boys club with a new concord agreement we will have a shit show on our hands. We need more competition, more shifts from generation to generation, more upward mobility for the bottom teams and a system in which the car you have is easier to improve in order to move to the top.
NEW fans becoming disillusioned with RB dominance would be more accurate, these fans whining about RB missed out on the absolute joy of watching the same thing from Mercedes from 14-20
At least mercedes had actual competition bsck then, 2017 ferrari were up there for the first half, 2016 while it was all mercedes it was between both drivers. None of those years were anything close to red bull last year.
I was one of the ones that complained about merc dominance at the time, and now I realised what I was missing. Yes they were ahead all the time, but they had more challenge...
@@nitelast "Actual competition". Mercedes had 56 poles in their first 59 races in their dominant period, and 31 1-2 finishes. Red Bull has fallen short by every meaningful statistical metric of how dominant Mercedes was in their first three seasons.
I think another thing bringing more people and girls in especially is the pull of social media and seeing the drivers personalities so they can connect more with them
Nice timing comparing the F1 Red Bull team and Leeds United the day after Red Bull bought a stake and signed a shirt sponsorship deal at Leeds. 😀
"Not quite as important as the treaty of Versailles"
That 'quite' is doing an absolute monster of a heavy lift there 😂
Sometimes words need a workout. 🏋️
Saying there can't be any new teams just makes the whole thing look bad. Part of what makes every racing series work, and what adds interest, is that new people can show up with a new team and get racing. Look at Group C back in the day, manufacturers were basically shoving each other out of the way to get cars on the grid. Course that went off a cliff when F1 started whining that another series can't be bigger than it is. And for those who weren't around back then, yes Group C was at least as big as F1. So the FIA killed it.
And I keep on thinking that wouldn't it be great if Indycar could swoop back in and hike back up the ladder of importance for open wheeled racing. Then I realize that Indycar has the horrible inability to let people know they even exist. Sure they have such a pretty field of dreams, but if you don't know where it's at and what time they will be playing, how will anyone know to even show up...
Tbh, Indycar has it's own little Good Ol' Boys club as well, being how Penske and Ganassi seem to hot-potato pretty much everything in it, but at least they're not blocking new teams, and at least they have an opportunity to succeed. It's like the only places that are doing business the right way in motorsports is Sports Car racing, WEC/IMSA has been the only places they've figured it out.
Honestly I could care less about F1, honestly having a sim race on a sim video game is more entertaining to watch. And all the drama BS has long-since gotten old (which Indycar seems to be following F1's footsteps lately).
This is bad enough on its own but in my head is the possibility of having a Kick sponsored car on the grid for the next 6 years...
and Stake.
It’s becoming Audi next year so it might not.
Im really looking foreward to seeing concorde agreement vs US Congress.
30 million for Ferdinand, I remember the fuss when Trevor Francis became the first Million pound player, not F1 related, but you get my drift 😂
even in current football market,if a club able to sign romario for 20 million,that is consider money so well spent
Serious questions.
Apart from providing entertainment and making Liberty Media, some teams and drivers enormously wealthy, what benefits does Formula One actually provide?
Do Liberty Media and the Teams really care about the fans?
I see a form of “ start and park” possibly entering the chat. when teams realize they can put in little to no effort and still make a ton of cash that could signal the death of F1
that means that a lot of people will lose jobs unfortunately
F1 teams have way more branding/attention than low level NASCAR teams though, because they have much, much, muuuuuch larger budgets to start with.
@@PanderingSlats That’s very true, the budgets are way different….
@@3twelveworkshop312 I spaced and forgot my ultimate point lol: Optics are not remotely close.
NASCAR once had enough competitors and prize money that a team could fly completely under the radar on tv.
F1 hasn't been like that in 30 years, if ever.
There are few enough teams that you can see what each one is doing at all times. If an F1 team started entering races and deliberately sitting out at the first opportunity, it'd be newsworthy.
No team at that level will ever back out that readily; they wouldn't be allowed to.
Top flight football has prioritized money for at least the last 3 decades to the detriment of the sport. In recent years F1 has started to go the same way.
Sometimes I fantasise about what F1 could be if they didn't just chase money, and instead made their number one priority the sport? What if effort and support was made to keep Brabham, Jordan, Arrows, (actual) Lotus, Minardi, Tyrrell, Jordan, Ligier/Prost, and lets face it, Williams along with Andretti today, in the sport as opposed just chasing manufacturers, tech companies, and the general lowest common denominator?
I'd rather see a grid with those 10 teams plus Ferrari and McLaren than today's grid; y'know, teams run by people who's literal dreams is to win in F1. None of this B-team bullshit.
It makes my decision to completely ignore what's going on in formula 1 this year seem like I got out at the right time. Now, even if Andretti does get in (a criterion for me taking an interest in the sport again in the future), I might not watch anyway because the snobbery and elitism that put me off will not have gone away.
Wrexham being mentioned by Aidan was not something id thought id hear 🤣
It’s the only way any team in league one will end up on TV these days.
In league two it’ll be when they play Salford
The bubble will burst and they'll be begging andretti to join.
I hate the term franchises. Liberty have done some great things since taking ownership, but literally closing the shop and removing any chance for a new team to come on and compete just doesn't sit well with me. Money is important, but so is the show. We’ll never have the excitement of a new constructor turning up again.
I've grown so used to watching NASCAR and Indycar double down on terrible decisions/piss in the wind to prop up short-term fan growth that I can't fathom Liberty asking Andretti to come back lol, my imagination is broken
The bubble bursting is likely to make the teams not want Andretti even more because at this moment Andretti simply hasn't shown that it can actually bring money into the sport. Almost all their strong sponsor relationships are either already in F1 so if they went with Andretti it would be pulling money away from the other teams OR they are more regional companies that work fine for a US only racing series but an international one where sponsorship fees are significantly higher they don't, as a company you aren't going to spend the kind of money needed to sponsor a team when most of the exposure is being done to people who can't become customers. It's great that Andretti likes showing its commitment to building a team and a car BUT where I feel they killed any chance was not 1) Committing to refuse to enter negations with any sponsor that is sponsoring another team between their application and the end of their first season and 2) Not having signed letters of intent from big international firms that do not sponsor another team, These two things wield have put teams at ease knowing the Andretti name wouldn't pull away their sponsors and would have highlighted the kind of money they would be bringing into the sport that would ultimately help everyone
@@SimonWakefieldUK so what? it's not a race teams job to show they'll bring in money and there's tons of sponsors around anyways.
@@laurenmp7486 If they need the other teams to be onboard with them entering then it absolutely is part of their job to show they aren't going to cannibalise these teams income. And you say there are 'tons of sponsors' but there really isn't. If there was you wouldn't see paid drivers, you wouldn't see all the shady sponsors you get in F1 like Rich Energy or right now Stake/Kick whose whole business strategy is to pay streamers who are often popular with kids vast amounts of money to stream on kick and then give them free bets so they can push gamberling and Stake onto kids and you wouldn't see most of the sponsor spots on the Haas being the words Haas. There are certainly multinational companies especially some US ones that are untapped but its would have been useful if they had rocked up with letters of intent showing they didn't need to drag sponsorship from existing teams sponsors, if they could have shown say an Apple, A Disney, A Netflix as a title sponsor and dozens of small multinationals it would have had to have helped ease the concerns of some teams
The entire idea of... "you were here when we bought the sport... so you're protected by us now" is the vibe I get from Liberty... and I hate it.
Allow 12 teams and just get it over with.
Am I the only one that can't see a downside to an 11th team? What's the problem with letting andretti in, or anyone else that wants to have a go?
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All things are neutral i guess
It’s amazing how relative it all is.
9:00 Don't be shocked if there's a huge crossover of this channel's viewers and HITC Sevens.
What they've discovered and are now implementing in F1 is something which slowly became known in North American sports under the franchise system over the last couple of decades: that the real value and profit in a sport comes not from the yearly revenues generated by a team, but by the increase in the value of a franchise over a number of years. The recent sale of the NHL's Ottawa Senators franchise is a case in point. The Senators franchise was originally granted in 1992 for a fee of $45M. The franchise has not been a profitable one at any point in its subsequent history and while often having good teams on the ice, has also had to sell off or deal away good players because of lack of revenues. And in recent years, the team has been a poor one, even on the ice, missing post season play for many years. Yet it sold this year for close to $1B.
So even one of the poorer performing team in North America's least popular major league is worth what F1 is hoping to value its teams/franchises at. What they do seem to be missing is that by expanding, and setting a high price for new franchises, as the NHL did in its recent expansions to Seattle & Las Vegas, they actually raised the values of existing teams. Before the recent NHL expansions, nobody thought of the Ottawa Senators as a billion dollar business.
The things that Millward said are on point. Each agreement makes Formula 1 less of a sport.
I must say that I don't like the American sports league model. It makes official the silly entertainment aspect of the sport. Formula 1 haven't been a true sport for some time, as there are no longer pre-qualifications that any CAR could enter (if it is within the formula rules). The access "league" of Formula 1, now called Formula 2, had been used by teams wanting to step into Formula 1 and now it isn't even working for drivers.
When the sport becomes completely Americanized is probably when I lose interest in it again.
Far out. Its always the sex bots here first, they're omnipresent 😅
Yeah, but it's classed as an interraction... So it's swings and roundabouts.
Sex bots????? Where???? Just asking for a friend/research
The solution is really simple: charters.
Hear me out before you laugh.
Current agreement allows for 13 2 car teams but F1 and the teams want to limit the number of teams to 10 due to greed. Fine, but with a few twists.
The 10 current teams receive charters. The grid is open to any 2 car team wanting to join for the whole season but will not receive any end of year payout but will receive points and payouts for the WDC and WCC accordingly. This preserves the current teams’ bonus payout money. As a result of not receiving end of year bonus money, the anti-dilution fee is done away. Now, any team which finishes in WCC ahead of the lowest placed chartered team for 3 straight years will now receive a new charter having proved their competitiveness.
This allows for grid expansion, keeps current team pockets full, and gets new teams to prove their worth.
Simple solution
That’s sort of how it used to be. New teams could enter and compete at any time, as long as they could prove financial viability. But they weren’t part of the existing Concorde agreement and thus wouldn’t get any prize money or revenue sharing from it. Stewart GP (Now Redbull) joined like this, living entirely on sponsorship for the first couple years. McLaren and Tyrell refused to sign the agreement and went without payment voluntarily.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 true. But the old way didn’t really provide a pathway to earning more money because of not being around to sign the CA. This way does that while answering the current teams’ critiques over any new teams entering the grid, mainly being competitive and cutting down their share of the pie.
I wonder how many people grew up watching F1 trackside many years ago and thought "this is what i want to be a part of, what i want do when i grow up" with a twinkle in their eye and follow through whether they were a driver or a team owner. If these changes go through, we will never have that again, and thats very sad as i love the whole "have a go heroes" thing when they really have a go and do well. It would truly be a sad thing to kill off 😔
Just wait until Gene Haas or the board at Renault decide F1 isn't worth it and leave F1, then they will be begging Andretti to join the grid.
Well Gene is quitting NASCAR so he maybe focusing his efforts on F1? 🤷♂️ I think Renault going is a more likely option at the moment.
I think we're honestly going to start seeing a scenario where Alpine/Haas will simply start phoning it in when they no longer become interested in the sport. And if Liberty won't actually enforce a level of quality, they can effectively just run a skeleton crew, slash costs to ridiculous degrees, and then make a tidy profit off the guaranteed money they're set to get.
When teams are literally going to start running a profit purely by showing up, you're going to see the lesser teams who know they can't win start simply counting the money rather than fielding proper racing outfits.
@@deknegt remember the nascar start and park controversy in the late 2000s? Sounds the same
@deknegt It is like the good old days of start and park in US motorsports.
@@deknegt So basically, Field Fillers.
F1 was ruined when the FIA leant towards the current overly complicated and expensive, largely irrelevant to road cars, engines.
I switched to F1 from wrc when it went downhill and I hear wec is calling
I think the 2026 Concorde Agreement should remove the cost cap. I don't want any part of F1 raking in enormous sums of money that they're not going to spend. That doesn't help anything or anyone but the owners.
What makes football unlike any other sport is two things. Nearly worldwide appeal. Also international competition, directly in case of European club tournaments and indirectly with national team tournaments involving everyones favorite players. UEFA Champions League and lower European club tournaments are extremely profitable for teams involved. That places the teams that make their way to the Euro games make way more money than teams limited to their national league and national cup. English Premier League is far from the most affected country when it comes to Euro games messing up the national leagues. Smaller countries with smaller leagues are far more affected by money in Euro games.
If the teams are locked in then "buying" a team and all it's assets, changing the name over the door is nothing more than a wall papering exercise. It's still generic team number 1/2/3...etc they are buying warts and all in an attempt to compete.
Part of the charm of a team entering, having a go, live, die what whatever was you can get behind the plucky underdog. That no longer exists. We will never see another Jordan, March, Layton House etc again. The Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapmans etc are no longer a thing. The cost cap pushing everything together, means an underdog can longer exist. It's all carbon copy operations now. It's not as if the engineers, the giant faceless auto company or giant faceless sponsor are the stars, its the drivers maybe the team principles.
Andretti would have been the last of the have a go hero's. People want it not only because more drivers on the grid but they want to see someone come in, in this case an American, a big name American and show what they can do. Like Haas there is no reason that they will go belly up like Manor/Virgin/Murussia, Lotus/Caterham, HRT and even if they did....who cares? The sport has always had a history of teams coming and going, switching hands etc.
but we all know the reason for the valuations is the exclusive boys club. When there are 10 entries you can name your price for the buyout because that piece of paper is a scarce commodity. Thing is tho, even if they allow another team or two, be it special invitation or some ridiculous fee or even very very very strict entrance requirements the value for the teams already there would still hold. They can loosen their grip, open the grid up a bit and still have their cake and eat it.
I donno tho, the new rules have caused a convergence in teams performance. We don't have the dirty air problem from yesteryear to the same extent. We still have large lumbering cars tho, debate of not engines and DRS that can be solved plus the new issue of over prescriptive, paint by numbers rules in response to overtaking. Race on Sunday, Sling Mud on Monday, Revise the result on Tuesday, Amend the rules on Wednesday, Press conference on Thursday, Free Practice and think up more punishments Friday, Qualify and apply punishments on Saturday rinse and repeat. Drive to survive has added nothing to the sport apart from revisionist history and attempting to create drama out of nothing.
After you last few videos I've been checking out the BTCC again and Endurance racing. F1 has improved in some areas but I think it's the drama the strangle hold over the rules that's killing it for me
Hello Aidan: I am perfectly fine with you drawing parallels with the Premier League. Have a good day.
F1 should become open entry without prize money, the cost cap shouldn't have salaries in it but then drop the cost cap to 20-40 million. Prize money should go to top 10 constructors like in the past and lastly open the technical regulations except mandate some safety regulations and dimensions like maximum 4.5m in length and 1.6m in width
'Nascarman History' Just did a YT video on Danny Ongias, the Flying Hawaiian who did race The Indy 500, F1 and Top Fuel Nitro back in the day. What does this have to do with the agreement? Absolutely nothing. I'm not aware of any other driver with this CV.
Not completely identical but Jim Clark also had a very diverse CV. Sports cars, touring cars, NASCAR, Formula One, Indycar, rallying. I even encountered a picture of him sitting in a slingshot as a promo shoot I imagine. And Jim was quite competitive in everything he ran
@@sakshamsharma5429 No doubt about that. Jim Clark was one of the best. Imagine if he hadn't died young. I'm from NC and attended quite a few races at Rockingham where he took a turn at NASCAR. Also impressed by Surtees who won the TT seven times, Then the F1 title.
Nascar has a charter system that has some similarities with the f1 system. If you have a chartered entry, you’re guaranteed a spot on the grid for every race of the season and you get a guaranteed performance based payout for every race and season. Sound familiar? Sure there’s differences in field size and team rules among other things but it’s the same principle, guaranteed money for existing teams and a barrier of entry for new ones. There’s only so many charters so to get one you have to buy into a team or wait for one to close or downside. That being said, nascar allows teams to attempt to race without a charter knowing they don’t have guaranteed payouts. Could formula 1 adopt a similar contingency that would allow the grid to expand without taking anything away from the current stake holding ones?
This worse than the Home Bulb Cartel at this point
9:28 spot on mate
TL DR F1 is speed running their way into irrelevance
This is what hubris looks like.
The directors of F1 and high level management should stop attempting to run a race series and just go into politics; they’ve proven over the decades that they’d likely be more successful at politics than attempting to remain relevant in what they do now.
F1's own rules allow for 12 teams.
Liberty Mefia is Ticketmaster.
If the rules allow for 26 cars to be on the grid (13 teams) then 3 more entries should be allowed. Plain & simple. The prize money can & should be sorted out regardless.
I remember Alan Shearer's £15m deal breaking the world. 😂
awesome video, it's certaily a concern.
Actually I think that it would be a good thing for F1 if the netflix thing goes pop and it would be good for F1
Iris Wariris is what we would say in Puerto Rico.
this "new" agreement has me worried for 2 reasons
1 - it's going to FULLY americanise the sport (which a lot of long time fans like me don't want)
and 2 - it's counter intuitive in allowing new teams to join but only if the pay absurd money to buy out an existing "franchise" as aidan put it
I think there is another risk of a break away or even new series that might bring back the smaller have a go hero teams.
F1 can do this because fans are unwilling to stop buying tickets and to quit tuning in.
I get your arguments about this but whats sad is ticket prices in both PL and f1 get more and more insane and exclusive.
I dont think ill ever afford going to an f1 race since i live in norway i also got travel expenses plus an insane ticketing price
I won’t put money in the premier leagues pockets. Even if Walsall made it there.
Is it just me or this entire thing was bound to happen without non-American promomoters since the sport opened up to social media, loosen up the copyright restriction, and Drive to Survive is a thing?
Agree with the football analogy, signed, a Raith Rovers fan.
Especially with this plastic pitch bullshit.
I am a fan of the overuse of the word ‘thing’.
I've heard about the Lola/Larrousse admin mistake and for sure the admin mistake happened but all record books (not just wikipedia) still shows them as 6th in the constructor standings. I know they were initially in trouble for it but did the disqualification stand? Perhaps they were allowed to keep 6th in the standings but the money went to Ligier as if they got 10th?
Disqualification stood and everyone else was bumped up in the whole getting money stakes.
Was the ruling DQ and stripped of points? Or just DQ? Because that could explain them being in 6th in the books, but not getting the money
Mario Andretti said that Maffi personally told him he would NEVER see his son'e team reach F1, the man is a snake.
Looking forward to the debut of the new Banchetti team and new team boss, Bichael Banchetti.
Personally i like boxing on ice , err ice hockey .
Haas worth a billion dollars? No chance, Greg Maffei's utterly deluded. (And completely off his rocker if he thinks the teams will work together for the common good, and help the slower teams become competitive enough to start challengine them.)
Haas have very little in the way of capital assets compared to other teams, just an operating base and limited manufacturing. They chose an operating model where R&D and manufacturing of the chassis & major components is contracted out. If (/when) anyone buys them, they are really just buying their F1 entry (worth $500M tops, maybe as low as $300M). If a new owner wants to have a self-sufficient F1 team they will need to make a major capital investment in new facilities. Haas' operating base on a Banbury industrial estate has no room to expand, so building completely new facilities would be neccessary.
And if the new owner wants to continue the current (dead-end) operating model, they'll have to negotiate with Ferrari & Dallara and hope they're feeling in a good mood.
Buying Haas could make sense for Andretti, if they are still planning to have their R&D and manufacturing all done at their HQ in the US. (For now lets ignore why that's an incredibly bad idea and doomed to fail, rather like Michael's F1 career as a driver.) But again they would only be buying Haas for their spot on the grid. (If the Andrettis really are interested they should get in fast before the price gets inflated any further, and be prepared to walk away if Gene Haas believes Greg Maffei's hype.)
The cost of an F1 "franchise" appears to have a similarity to 1980's F1 engine power ratings, always going up.
@@JohnSmithShields Definitely.
10:45 Hollywood Hulk Wrexham
24 cars is the sweet spot for F1. What happened to small grids looking bad? Like only 20 cars doesn’t look healthyb
Ironic that you compared Leeds to Red Bull given the recent investment
Too bad Elon blew all his pocket money on that microblog cesspool, he could have bought Ferrari and turned into the Tesla team and annoyed the world as much for a bargain price. Oh how I would have laughed and laughed.
Elon would have built an overweight non compliant car and his fanboys would rip their cocks off over it 🤣
@@AidanMillward lol, graphic, but not wrong
Yeah in Football and Formula 1 they are complaining about money, but what about Golf an Tennis
You got confused, I got confused. You got talking and I missed the point completely. Still I don't mind the Soccer references. It sounds like you believe that F1 will end up like that too. Best part of this episode was the music. The Liberty Media style of development is bad, The FIA alternatives are worse.
I see Ferrari will still end up keeping their bonus under this agreement . Andretti should try and buy sack-happy Alpine (which is just a complete shower at the moment) or Haas. The recent wins for Lando and Charles in Miami and Monaco were much needed.
One billion. The word I would use is obscene. Not absurd.
There’s nothing more amusing than when competitions become cartels and still insist on being considered a competition.
I've stopped watching F1 for the first time since I started following it in the late 1970's. I feared that F1 would not be the same without Bernie and it is everything for the worse. The Americanisation of F1 with Liberty - who have no respect for its history as they have no understanding of it - has turned the sport into a complete shitshow. F1 is not a sport, it's all about protectionism. Once the public have enough, it won't be easy to get them back - me included.
Yeah, my brain turns off at soccer talkem-compairisons talk.
11:09 Well, except if you're Leeds bc Leedsy things..
Open wheel convergence
Let Andretti in and don't give them TV money.
Spaghetti
Man, i really despise businessmen like Greg Maffei
It's called The Piranha Club for a reason.