Nazi Black Widow Mauser Luger P.08 | 9mm Pistol | Walk-in Wednesday
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- In this episode, Tom talks about WW2 Nazi Lugers. He also talks about the difference between a common WW2-era Mauser Luger P.08 and what the collector community calls the "black widow", a "byf" 41 or 42 with black bakelite grips and black bakelite magazines. He explains what makes a black widow and shows us how to tell the difference between a real and a fake one.
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Legacy Collectibles offers a wide variety of collectible firearms and memorabilia to the public. We strive to honor veterans and military history as well as provide quality, authentic products at reasonable prices. We specialize in WW1 WW2 firearms.
My grandpa brought back a 1940 42 code Luger. It came with a non-matching numbered ‘Black Widow’ magazine. If anyone has a Black Widow S/N 6225, I have your magazine 😂😂
I would say that the Luger is easily the most iconic pistol in the world. That shape is instantly recognizable, and so sexy.
Colt 45 (original)?
i say the 1911 but luger is a close second
I'd say model 1911 first, Luger second. One, because the gun (model 1911) is still being made, while the Luger is not.
In the movies it was the Ultimate bad guy gun for many years,always looking more interesting and menacing than every other piece of hardware.
Don't forget all the sexy 'cowboy's revolvers'! And the original Colt 1911 has not less history 'in the shoes'...
Just the best looking pistol ever made.
Right next to the 1911 imo!
@@knightscroftsquire-muldoon they took mine away 😐
@@richard9444 those greasy rat filled snakes!
One nice thing about the black bakelite grips is that they don't chip-off under the safety lever, like the wood ones do.
The "bfy" factory survived the war, because the Nazis marked the factory with a big red cross on the rooftop. They also told the allies that this building was a hospital for Prisoners of War. So our bombers never hit it.
Not true. British and US bombers doesnt care any red crosses in Germany.
My Luger came with those black Bakelite grips when I bought it in the early 80's, the grips are worth more than what I paid for the pistol.
Great video, subscribed!
I bought a like-new byf 41 Black Widow in 1998. I had a worn mixed parts 1913 DWM "brown recluse" so a hardly fired 1941 model was irresistible. At the time I was put off by the black bakelite grips and even the guy selling it apologized and lowered the price because we both agreed a Luger should have wood grips. We both thought the grips were cheap aftermarket stuff. Immediately I bought wood grips for it to make it "original" but fortunately kept the black grips. I bet many others did the same and no doubt the plastic grips got separated from the pistol. Around ten years ago I heard about the black widow nickname and discovered my grips were authentic so they are back on the P.08 now. I never fired it as I doubt this pistol has fired 100 rounds period. I should change that now and finally run a mag through it. The tough old DWM has fired thousands of rounds since I bought it in 1975 with only one broken part which was a cheap and easy fix. (sheared rear toggle pin which didn't stop the gun from working, noticed it when cleaning afterward)
I worked my thru Univ working in the Interarms warehouse in Alexandria; then, in the late '60's, we had ammo crates full of '08;S sitting on the floor. My Black Widow was off a Volkstrum in '45 and brought back by my beloved Uncle; it was my first pistol.
Can u give me that
I'm a luger shooter, hundreds of thousands of rounds fired. A good luger doesn't jam, unless dirty, and they are accurate out to 300+ yards.
I have a 1916 made 6" barrel marine version in mint condition. It is wonderful. Every part is matching numbered.
Azmi, as I have a 1916 artillery Luger, the next logical acquisition would be a Navy Luger. Hope you enjoy yours.
Jeff
@@jkoysza1 Yes, I enjoy it a lot. I believe it is blued once but no corrosion.
I actually met Ralph Shattuck here in Germany many years ago and then ran into him (red jacket, cart and all) at a couple of MAX shows.
I knew Lee Kelsor who was a famous Luger collector. I enjoyed a tour of his collection before he passed. One thing for certain, any gun enthusiast will never know the appraised value of any Luger without an expert to help them.
I prefer the wooden grip ones, I like the contrast with the gunmetal. If I had the money and I lived in a country where I was actually allowed a vintage firearm I would pay more for one of those over the monochrome one.
agreed
Ralph
Emigrate to the USA. We have the freedom to own almost all fire arms. Despite what the press would have you believe, we have very few shootings and more than half of our households are armed.
We need more freedom loving citizens in US and less serfdom subject minded peoples here. I’d love for you to immigrate here and offset the nonsensical and brainwashed.
@@cavalrymajor Thanks, i'd like to but i've got to get some training first as i lack the skills to have a proper job over there. Montana or one of the Dakotas appeals to me as i like the open spaces and not so many people. Unfortunately i live in a grim northern city in England which is the polar opposite.
I had a black widow P08 9mm left to me by my late father. I lost it in a robbery almost 30 years ago. I now have a 1920 DWM commercial P08 in 7.65mm left to me by my grandmother. I love the P08, and it still eats at me having lost the black widow. Mine was a German military pistol, having the tell-tail markings.
They are still available if you can spend a couple thousand. We just sold one today at 2500.
I would be sick .I almost cry when I think of guns I sold .
Very nice job Tom. I bought a few Lugers in the '70's from Ralph's mailings. Used to see him and Sam C. tooling around the Great Western show in Pomona. Jan was there, Mike Krausse too.
And who can forget "Hollywood Joe" Buffer, and Howard Tokarsky. Man those were fun times. Mike in Temecula
I know most of those names and do business with several of them. A great hobby and sometimes profitable :) Thanks for watching
Numbering the bottom of the magazines ended in the later blocks of 1941 Lugers, around the U block. By 1942 serial numbering the mags was done on aluminum bottom mags. Grips will also intermittently numbered too.
Ralph Shattuck was indeed the Father of Luger Collecting and sales! He Lived in Birmingham Michigan the Next Town North of Royal Oak where I grew up. He also branched out and created two other Collectible Pistol Businesses named World of P38 AND World of Nambu. Do you ever get any VOPO Lugers?
I have a DMW 1910 9mm Luger. What modern ammunition would you recommend to use with it?
Your videos are very well done, the white background makes the gun pops.
I always enjoy watching your videos. Is there a source for looking up a date of manufacture for a DWM Luger?
There are only 3 guns in this world: Makarov, Luger and Colt Python.
Makarov? Yikes
Another awesome episode. Also thanks for the knowledge about Nazi black widow mauser Luger P.08's !!!!!!
My father ran messages between allied camps in WWII in France and up into Belgium. Driving his jeep with no lights at night he always had a German Luger cocked and on the seat beside him!! He said if someone dropped in, the M-1 Carbine could never be drawn from its holster in time!! He rejected the Colt .45. and was definitely was from the bullet placement school of handguns as opposed to knockdown power!! He did not bring it home so do not know that Lugers fate!! Would like to hear a report on German use of the Luger in North Africa. Would think it had to be babysat against the sand action on the toggle on this firearm!!
Luger holsters and magazine pouches are fully enclosed for this very reason... To keep the dirt out.
Hey!!!! This is the best video I have ever seen on the Luger P08 etc. Good job, I liked and subscribed. Thanks, BB
Thanks for the love Bob. Try the on I just posted about the P.38, Amazing Capture Story !
Personally I like the wooden grips more.
My uncle brought one back, it was my first pistol.
I finally bought a Luger P08, made in 1916. It has holster wear but no rust. I bought it mainly as a shooter. It looks as someone put varnish on the grips, which show wear. The magazine has the wood bottom. I bought a new reproduction mag to use when I shoot it. The one part I do not like is that it is stamped "Made in Germany" on the right side above the proof marks. It kid of takes away from the pistol, but for what I paid I shouldn't complain.
I’ll make some of you happy. I’d much rather have one with wood, blue and straw. That will be extras for you 🕷 lovers.
Thanks Patrick
I was just browsing lugers because I believe I bought one of these 30 years ago for like $200. Matching numbers in a holster now I'm not sure if it is a black widow it's in my dad safe but definitely looks like it
I have a 42 "Black Widow" Luger. My friend thinks it's haunted / cursed because of it's Nazi origins. LOL.
Just in time for Halloween !!
I inherited a nazi Luger and I also had a couple friends suggest I get rid of it, that they couldn’t sleep with one in their home. I say, the reason I have it in my hands is because a US soldier took it off a nazi and brought it home. I sleep just fine at night.
Had a similar experience
@Albanian AWOO 卐 So what if he is Jewish? That is a terrible provenance. I admire the Jewish people, they are very intelligent people and I really think is why they are so hated. And the reason why they are so successful.
@Kathleen Shaw The bible is not history, it is a tale, nothing more. Your lack of respect and stupidity make you a disgusting racist garbage. It's pathetic that we are talking about weapons and racism always has to show its ugly snout.
I had one back in the early 80’s but like a 19 year old I sold it to my father and it went missing. My favourite pistol of all time. Mine was a war prize and it had SS silver inlays in the top of the grips. I would love to purchase a Luger doesn’t have to be a black widow.
I think we can help with that! ;) Here's a link to a full rig we have on our site. We get them in periodically, so if this one isn't what you're looking for, keep checking! Email us at info@legacy-collectibles.com with any questions.
www.legacy-collectibles.com/hand-guns/lugers/1941-black-widow-mauser-luger-rig-16.html
And here's a link to all of our Lugers. Happy browsing!
www.legacy-collectibles.com/hand-guns/lugers
100% Yes, Bob Smith an amazing guy from Hazleton Pa and a HUGE Luger collector ( lol he had a PA vanity plate LUGER) told me 35 years ago that Ralph, who he sold all his good Lugers to -at a huge, HUGE mark-up, invented the BW name in the late 70's. RIP Bob & Ralph.
I have a byf Luger all matching serial numbers I bought it 25 years ago in excellent condition I highly value it it's a part of history I will never part with it
Maybe I'm weird but I like the brown recluse better. Hahaha. I love the old Luger . My father had a Ruger Mark 1 when I was a kid it was the first pistol I shot very well. The grip angle just seems perfect for me. So when I see the Luger it takes me back. I know Ruger copied the look and style of the Luger. I've never held a Luger do they also feel similar to the Ruger Mark 1? Thanks for the great video very informative. 👍
Brown recluse is way prettier
@@zoranhome yes definitely more character I think
I have a Ruger Mark III and also had the opportunity to shoot my friend's Artillery Luger. Maybe you're right. I think Ruger must have copied the grip angle of the original Luger or maybe even the Japanese Nambu pistol.
@@scooterbob4432 I agree. Not sure what the original was probably the Luger but definitely my favorite grip angle. I find it to be very accurate point and shoot. Not sure why this is not more popular? Thanks for sharing
Hello Tom: Late discovering your channel but enjoy it very much! Any suggestion on locating commercial Mauser Luger's not during the war years? I would like to own/shoot a Luger without feeling like it's "precious"....
I have two Lugers. A byf 41 (wood grips) and a byf 42 widow maker. I know the widow maker is more valuable and harder to find, but I love the feel of the wood grips compared to bakelite. Does anyone else agree or disagree? Just curious.
Ralph used to send out a newsletter periodically, maybe monthly, that listed the guns he had for sale. No pictures, just line after line of guns and the details of it. I literally watched the mailbox for it to arrive when I was a kid. Did you buy any of his collection?
When referred to the Luger as the "Black Widow" my first thought was it was called that supposedly because the Luger killed so many German soldiers when they were cleaning them or trying to un-jam them. Supposedly, a round could still be chambered and the soldier would think the gun was empty. I heard this story years ago when I bought my Luger while in the USAF stationed in Germany. I was warned to be very careful with it for that reason.
That's odd. Why would a soldier cleaning a Luger not know whether or not a round had been chambered? The Luger comes standard with a chamber loaded indicator. It is designed so you can both see and feel it. Are you sure you own a Luger???
Luger has the particularity that a chambered bullet can be fired even with the barrel-slide disassembled... if you squeeze the small slat on its left side; one thing to keep well in mind for disassembling safely this gun!
That is why the German police departments ,after WWl and during WW11,. Insisted that a sear safety system to be installed on Their LUGERS..
The " Swivy safety system"..
That is how Luger collectors identify the Pistols issued to the Police.
I have a near mint. WWII Mauser byf 42 black window Luger.With 4 fxo magazines & a matching 42 black hard shell military holster.
That sounds delicious.! :) Make sure you contact us when you are ready to sell !
Thanks for watching.
Dang 4 FXO mags? NICE!!
I have a DWM 1920 P08 that has really interesting marks on it and the serial # is just 1000. Each individual part is marked with the last 00 digits. I’m assuming it’s a commercial Luger with all the military proof marks.
Fantastic machine work really nice
When I worked at a small gun shop in sou th ern Indiana a really old man said he had this luger he wanted to sell from ww1. It had a really long barrel and shoulder stock with leather strap. I wasn't able to buy and the boss was gone who did. He was so upset I did it at info, but I had just started and was only 17.
beautifully made pistol
Great vid, excellent description on the history of the “Black Widow”. Curious why you didn’t show an example of a mag with a wooden bottom, are they rare? Thanks for sharing, subscribed! Ciao.
Good question. WW2 magazines were aluminum bottom until the Black Widow introduced the black plastic. All of the WOOD bottoms were WW1 and generally before the 1920's.
Legacy Collectibles Thanks for the immediate come back, appreciate the tip!!! Ciao.
Great information. Thank you, your videos are very interesting
Great informative video, thanks!
Wonderful pistols.
Thanks, I just learned a lot from your video. Saw one of these at a local gun shop a couple of days ago, they're asking 1400, looks to be in good shape. Would you say that is a good price?
if it is real.... they sell in the 2500-3000 range
@@LegacyCollectibles Damn that's a lot, I was just wondering of how much they'd cost.
Yeah I don’t know enough about them to tell the difference for sure
In my country (Italy) you can’t find one under 1200€ .
They’re becoming pretty expensive .
I have an old German Luger, it is a 30 caliber, has wood checkered grips and wood on the end of the magazine, it is old. Can you tell me anything about it, and do you need more info?
What is a fair price to pay for a WWII Luger? I know there are many factors that can affect the price. I was looking at one that was very nice made in 1938. The price was 3800.00. Thanks.
Funny how dealers and collectors hype items with catchy names like “Black Widow” to build up a late war mediocre quality Luger. Not busting on you, they’ve been called Black Widows for decades.
My P08 has red painted clear grips with bits of paper underneath. My grandfather took this off a nazi but thats a long story. I know the grips are sweetheart grips but I can't seem to figure out why they're painted red
Were there any "legitimate" Lugers manufactured post war? If so, my guess would be Mauser.
Mauser stop production in 1942 and switched the factory to P38 production. Krieghoff continued to make Luger until 1944/45. Then there were no Lugers made for decades. Then due to popularity Mauser started remaking them again in the 70's or 80's (not sure the date). These were clearly modern replicas. While none are made today they still sell very well with dealer and gunshops
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Thanks.......Awesome channel !
Excellent
What about the Stoegers stainless steel made in the late 80's early 90's? Those aren't "legitimate"? They are a Luger? I have one.
@@broncobra Thanks for the info. I will check Stoegers out.
Saw a 1937 byf luger, is there any that version produced? or just a fake markup of the S/41 S/42?
Re: Albert Foster Jr. Was Colts New York manufacturing manager early on.
Tom, That was a great video as most people think that they were made only for the SS.
Do you guys sell on gunbroker?
We do indeed. Under the name Legacy Collectibles.
Well Sir I now have.My 6 fxo Luger magazines I/for the Luger 1/for the spare magazine & 4 for the two Luger magazine pouches.
Have you anything about .45acp Rugers ?
Great info and very entertaining
Is their any other way to determine if you have real authentic bakelite (black widow) grips?
You can send me a photo of both sides. Most times I can tell right away.
info@legacy-collectibles.com
@@thomaswhiteman4261 OK sounds good. I will email you the pictures by tomorrow.
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Where can I submit a 1 of a kind (genuine) 1941 Walter P-38 chrome plated - probably a presentation weapon - collected post-war in American occupied Germany and brought back to U.S. in 1947?
@@bobfranke2347 All nickeled war time p38s were post war nickeled. Not a rare presentation
Very interesting I have a Luger but it’s not a black Luger it falls right at the cut off date of 1940 all matching and a. Really neat story with providence nice gun
Thanks for watching. You probably don't want to sell, but if you ever do, keep us in mind. I am always looking for new inventory.
Thomas Whiteman sure thing is there a place I can contact you to get more info on my Luger I will keep you in mind if I decide to sell it would like to figure out exactly what I have
So I’m lucky to have one? I didn’t know about the name had this Luger with black grips 🥰
The luger is so Iconic!!t would be nice to own one ,to say the least!! Thanx!
I own a 1915 DWM luger with 3 notches on the trigger guard. I would love to know more about the pistol But I don't know where to research this. Any suggestions ??
Look up the "Standard Catalogue of Luger" from Aarron Davis. It's a great place to start.
Witch one is more accurate, the Luger or the p38?
Probably pretty equal but P38 design is more durable and simpler
Subscribed great video
I just inherited a numbers matching luger, where can i go to get info on it
it inherited the nick name black widow because of it's ability to accidently discharge (fire ) a around accidently...
a lot of german soldiers where accidently killed like that. a lot of american soldiers grabbing them to bring them home where killed by accidental discharges also.
hence the term "black widow"
Interesting, thanks.
The mauser luger is a beaut Mike
I have a 41 Byf Luger all matching numbers. Wonder what it's worth..
Please clear up a cunumdrum? On the "newer" Lugers, there has been many reports of "soft Stainless" being used? Is this correct? Curious.
I've read so many conflicting stories. I would like to know the truth from an expert. It's one of the reasons that I haven't shot and enjoyed mine.
I take it out, admire it, worry about it self destructing, clean it, and put it away. The stories have been circulating since the guns first came out.
Could you shed some light upon the subject? THANK YOU.
I believe the Stainless luger was made by Mitchell. They are perfectly safe to shoot (assuming they have not been mishandled, etc). And in fact the quality and performance is generally praised. Here is a review from someone who shot one. I never have. Good luck
www.guns.com/news/2013/01/03/mitchell-arms-p08
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Yes, mine is a Mitchell Arms, marked Stoeger, Houston Tx. Manual says Aimco, Stoeger. Purchased in 1995. Gun is marked Stoeger,
Houston TX. Has Luger etched on the left side with a bit of scroll. I remember when I bought it, it was a Mitchell Arms.
Thanks again!
Cool! I have one of these
There is no such the as "OCD" because nothing is in disorder. It should be called OCO. Obsessive compulsive order. At least that is what I was told by a Cpl. back in the day... Hahaha. Thanks for sharing your knowledge always enjoy watching and learning.
How is the metal of the pistol finished in black instead being blued?
Blued, just like any other Mauser Luger
@@thomaswhiteman4261 Thanks. But it looks black, closely matches the black of the grips. Not the same as the darkly blued pistols I've seen. Is there something different about the process? And it's not just the lighting, every Luger pic on the internet shows as black, except the chrome ones.
Do you guys buy parts and pieces of Luger pistol? I have like 5 bin full of parts(barrels, screws, triggers, pistol grips, springs, firing pins, frames, etc) that I can't seem to put together. Maybe someone can better use them.
A Luger is considered as "prohibited" here in Canada because of the 4 inch barrel length. There is new barrels a little longer which make them restricted but the original barrel must be destroyed. If you didn't have one of these before the Order in Council, too bad. Virtually no way you can get a prohib today. It can be grandfathered if your relative brought it back and has died, but you cannot buy a new one. When you die, the pistol is destroyed.
SUCKS !! Big time. But I have an exporter in Canada who can ship them to me. So all you Canadians. Please ship to US before these get destroyed. Maybe someday when the politics of this change you will be able to get them back ! But that will be a LONG time
Your allowed Deactvated weapons
@@Sinky-06 Yes, but I could never submit an historic and valuable firearm of any description to be turned into a door stop.
Muito bom, meus parabéns, obrigado!
Dilini anlamama ragmen keyifle izlefim süperdi emeginize sağlık 💪👍
How much do they go for now over there?
Beautiful
Thanks for clearing that up as always heard they were SS only issue guns even some internet sites say that about them.
How much does a gun like that go for?
Warren Michigan checking love the channel and maybe one day I might be able to get just a nice Luger I don’t believe I’ll ever be able to afford anything you show but just a nice clean example
I said the same thing in my 20's and look at me now !!! Hang in there. Make good investments and one day you will get there. We can help you when the time comes.
Thomas Whiteman thanks you very much for the inspiration Sir. I’ve always enjoyed everything about the second amendment.
When ur fighting a war, so u think ppl really give a shit if the pistol didn't come with matching tool lol
My dream gun. One day. One day
Four to five hundred dollars back in the days so what's the fake since all it takes are the grip and the bullet used to make her a black widow Lugar.The Lugar pistol grip is a good comfortable grip.Did he say how much adding the black grips 500 to the Lugar itself .Is it crooked no of course not its strictly business.
It looks like new.
I am far less interested in a "collectable" than an accurate reliable shooter. Matching serial numbers not manditory. Are any guns like this available at lower cost than a "true" collectable?
Hey Greg I put two shooters together from parts off eBay and gun broker but any more the parts have gone crazy which may be why people part them out
how much is it?
I remember when they were $25
How much are they going for now?
Luger, Why is the base of the mag made of wood on mine?
All WW1 era lugers had wood bottom magazine. So your luger mag was made pre 1925.
Is the luger dated? And marked DWM on top?
@@LegacyCollectibles 1918 and the number 43 all over it. serial#2343
@@LegacyCollectibles also a marking on top with a crown and the name ERFURT
@@johnmoorhousedecorated-nam899 So your Luger was made in 1918 by Erfurt, not DWM. But the magazine SHOULD be wood bottom as it was from WW1 era. Enjoy
Is it possible to place tactical light, laser and collimator sight on it?
I’ve always thought those guns have an awesome looking trigger and guard in particular
hi i have a double date luger and wanted to ask you about mine, if you can give me any help that would be great.it.s a 1918 1920. Erfurt luger ....i have never seen a double dated luger.thanks johnny
Not uncommon. The gun was made for the military in 1918. After the war ended, some guns were destroyed but some we allowed to be reworked for the German Police. (they were disarming the military so police reworks were the only option). So it was reworked in 1920 and then reissued.
Legacy Collectibles thanks for the reply on my 1918 1920 Erfurt Luger i asked you about 2 more ? Any value for such a pistol? And some of the stamped markings are hi lighted with white paint. Did they come like that are did someone hi lite the stamped markings, i know Erfurt was where it was made does that add to the value????they are well balanced pistols...plus mine is a matching number Luger except for the clip which useally were replaced when they were re worked....thanks again i really enjoy your videos...
@@johnnystieferman6527 The white wax pencil (except in the writing by the safety lever) was not factory. Often added by collectors to highlight the markings. If you gun is all matching and in pretty good condition it can be in the 1200- 1600 range.
I want one
Matching serial numbers are most important, the Assyrian’s which is ancient name for Germany 🇩🇪 and where the word aryan drives from !!!
I have one with a stamp below serial either Chinese. Or other
Note 2019 the original WWII black widow 1 pair of grips.Are now going for.The un heard of price,on Youtub for $899.00.
Hard to imagine. I used to buy them at 200 a pair, but never available for that price any more.