@@Foche_T._Schitt It's law. You have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Suspicion doesn't mean jacksh*t in court. The lawyer who takes the case is only doing it so he/she can charge you their $300 hourly fees.
@jamalwilburn228 not necessarily.. if you pass a counterfeit $100 it matters not about your intent you go to lock up untill the FBI gets done with you and usually it goes on your record for life weather you do jail time or not ... "I didn't know" is no excuse
Learned a lot. Thanks! I went to Ralph Shattuck’s house in Arizona around 1999 and saw his impressive collection in his walk in safe room. I got a mint 1934 Swiss Contract DWM in 7.65 that he said was from some collector’s estate and was likely never fired after the factory, and a 1914 DWM Naval Luger with a long barrel and artillery sights in 9mm also in mint condition but probably fired a few times. I also got a copy of his book.
Seriously expose this guy! Your viewers will only be protected by us knowing Tom, and something tells me not all of his buyers are your viewers. There’s a subtle way to go about it like showing the listing
How are we to know the seller knew it was a fake? He could've been fooled himself as this takes someone who is very knowledgeable to know its fake. Many Luger owners are nowhere near this experience and just like the gun and have money
Hello, and thanks for this video. As usual, I did learn something. And to me, quite something. I am portuguese and this country had Lugers on its armed forces, before turned to the Walther P-38. Back then, we had also PPs and PPKs for the police. Here a civilian can not own guns normally (as we can not defend our home and family even with a registered permitted gun now)... Anyway I am a Luger fan, as I am a fan of everything that is well made... And I love your channel. I hope you can stay around for quite long time.
Great video, Tom! It made me go out to the safe and get my BYF 41 All matching but I think the grips have been replaced. They are wood and I think one has a faint 135 stamp on it. Anyway keep these videos coming they are great info for the up-and-coming collector😊
The grips on the Luger are Bakelite the very first industrial plastic material. Bakelite is a hard resin that's heated in an oven and then pressed in to shape using a form mounted in a hydraulic press. If one doesn't have the press or the Bakelite bricks, then it's nigh impossible to make components that look like Bakelite. The pistol grips showed are cast, hence all the bubbles.True Lugar grips are pressed.
Thanks for putting out these educational and helpful videos Tom. Its too easy nowadays to get scammed and you're helping to counter that trend tremendously.
Great video with excellent explanations of how to spot a fake. You are correct in not destroying the firearm. It is best to broadcast it to the public and I'm sure it would make a wonderful shooter grade handgun for someone on a budget.
@@CameronMcCrearyman that had to be cool working for him! I’m a machinist and axis pistol collector and just recently heard about Martz. Had to be fun and interesting working with him!
@@Nick_B_Bad It was fun but demanding. I got to pick the stock walnut pieces and made springs and ejectors from Sheffield spring steel purchased from England. Some of the best springs were made from this steel. I also made coil springs from round stock converted to square stock for his heavier caliber recoil springs.
I worked for a class 3 manufacturer and he had a friend that was also a class 3 manufacturer that guy had a industrial grade Pantagraph machine and he would make all the Waffen amp stamps for a particular type of weapon. We used to get mixed parts sets in and needed to sand or polish off the original markings and restamp everything correctly. Because he built these weapons on his marked recievers there was no way a later seller could say it was "faked" since the numbered receiver was not original. So its not hard to see sellers pulling a fast one on buyers by restamping parts.
Thanks, Tom, for an excellent and informative video. I used to see Ralph Shattuck at the MAX Show, but first met him when his wife and he came to Germany on vacation, and we were at the came Biergarten table. We immediately found that we were both Shriners and had a nice conversation.
I’m surprised he didn’t add a Deaths Head to the holster to try and milk a little more out of it. 😂 We all know every “black widow” came off an SS General at a concentration camp. 😂
Really enjoy your videos, very informative ! I have to admit , I had a cousin that about 20 years ago was faking lugers and was proud to tell me about it. He and I didn't talk for about a year as I told him how wrong that was .I always wondered where those guns wound up.
Old time collectors used white to make the numbers more viable. It can be clean off with a mild solvent and nylon brush without effecting the original finish.
I have a byf 41 Luger. Black grips but grey magazine. 135 proof and virtually every part has the last 2 digits of serial on it. If my serial is on the barrel it’s so light I can’t see it however underside of barrel has proof mark. Bought it in a pawn shop in 95 for $500ish. The pawnshop dealer said it was a Luftwaffe pistol because it’s a Mauser and not a DWM which is more valuable. After this video I don’t know what I have. The only thing waxed is the safety no numbers or marks have any waxing
I have a BYF 41 Luger I got from my dad 30 years ago. All numbers match except the magazine, it's the aluminum bottom. The condition from 1 to 10, 10 being brand new, I would say it's a 9. No rust, very little wear. It has the 655 markings. How would I find out the value of it? Thanks
I wonder why he would use a WWI holster instead of a WWII one? Seems it would be easier, same with why go to the trouble of stamping numbers I would think the way to do it would just be to add the black grips and mag bottom. I liked the Brown Recluse…I’m going to use it !
I'd bet that if you could (unfortunately) destructively test the fake grips and mag bottoms by shaving a a tiny piece off, you would find that the fakes are made from a casting resin. That's why there are bubbles on the inside of the fake grip panels, because pouring resin into a mould drags air in with it and bubbles can't always escape before the resin cures. The original grips and mag bottoms would be made from Bakelite, which uses heat and pressure to polymerise it, so unless the part was very (very) badly designed, there shouldn't be any bubbles/voids at all.
Arrgh! Pause the video around 0:50 and play 'spot the difference.' Mauser production didn't vary that much surely? I wonder what inspection stamps are inside the frames? Best bet would be to use it as a parts gun. It's an expensive shame but what can you do?
The fake gun has CHARACTER! A good Man seeking a good Woman may notice that maybe some prominent parts of her curvy features are fake, or Enhanced if you will? But still is so very attractive and wonderful. Why? Because she has CHARACTER!
50 years ago I had a 32 cal. MAB with the black grips and it had the nazi proof/inspection symbols all over it. I was told there was less than 2000 made don’t know what happened to it but I’ve been curious what it was worth. Does anyone know
If it was an MAB C that was one of the roughly 2600 procured for the German army then you had one rare pistol there. That is just a 600 more than the elusive Unique 16 which I just seen a complete rig sell for $3800 a few months back.
Didn’t East German post war Lugers have black grips ? I remember back in the late 80’s early 90’s when I had my shop there was quite a few reproduction parts for the Luger mainly because the Luger wasn’t a expensive gun but collectors were beginning to pick them up and by the early 2000’s especially after saving private Ryan came out all things ww2 took off suddenly German stuff that wasn’t readily accessible started showing up..and so did the price…that’s cool I have own pistol and helmet collection myself…
The term "Black Widow" was made up in the mid to late 70's by Ralph Shattuck, because plastic gripped Lugers were not selling. Think about it wood grips are a lot more labor intensive than plastic. The plastic gripped guns are later in the war when resources were getting low, it was all about getting guns out. As an old friend of mine's father used to say "There is an *** for every seat"
They are interesting as late war guns and aren't as common as their wood grip brother from the same years. Problems are people acting like they're very rare, and anyone can swap out grips and magazines. So the guns get damaged, but they continue to survive on another gun. Also, these weren't ever issues to XX like some believed. Just anyone in the Whermacht
Destroying any quality firearm ought to be a crime, even if it is not an "authentic" collectible! I suggest that once a faked collectible is identified, an additional stamp could be applied somewhere on the frame under the grips, stock or furniture. Some variant of "assembled" or "N-O" (for "Non-Nriginal") or even "N/A" indicating "Not Authentic" should suffice, especially given popular online forums where collecting communities can discuss and develop standards.
Look at the 655 stamp. The real 655 has the 5 in the center at a 90 degree angle but the 6 is about 5 degrees? Or so at an angle and the same with the other 5 so they are at 85, 90 and 95 like they are stamped around a center point. The fake is all 90 degrees.
BYF 42's had wood grips as well. I have one (numbers matched) The whole craziness for these "black widows" is silly. Total made up marketing nonsense. If anything I would venture to say the BYF42/41s with wood grips are more uncommon. Not to mention the black grips are not numbered. There is no real way to be certain one left the factory with them. I could take the wood grips off my BYF42 and slap some original black bakelite ones on there and just about double its value.
I have an S42 Luger dated 1936, and it has a matching holster dated 1936. Would this be considered WW1 or a mid years Luger? Obviously it isn't a WW2 manufactured Luger but it was used in WW2 (it is a captured Luger).
Great video found it extremely educational. I have a 1941 dated Luger that matches your description but the toggle has 42 instead of byf would this be considered a black widow?
As a past Luger collector I hate the term "Black Widow"! The byf lugers were the highest production of all wartime guns! Good marketing and took advantage of stupid noob collectors! Just my opinion! Also remember that black Bakelite grips were standard replacement in armorers kits.
Just got your Luger book. I'm not even a collector, but have a few Luger books now and yours is my favorite. Love reading about and looking at the finite details. Got addicted to reading Messerschmitt Bf 109 e and Macchi C.202 Folgore stats, so the Luger history has been a nice accompaniment.
A comment on selling a faked gun, i agree not to destroy it, maybe you could add your own personal mettel stamp to it, I have a skull and cross, bones, maybe that could signify that it's a creation, and still a gun to preserve, your videos are great, cool 😎
Its sorta ironic that tom tells us how to find a fake when he was caught faking a black widow haha. He's also had a lot of fake stuff in his store without mentioning its fake.
My first luger was a byf 41 in fine shape..I bought it in 59 or 60, paying $75 ...that was before I caught the quest for luger virus. Unfortunately (I was a dumb 20 year old at the time) I scratched my name and address on the inside of the left hand grip..(Roger d..., 730 and 1/2 ma..... Dr, v....e, california). If anybody now has that gun, I sincerely apologize..when you're 20 you know from nothing.
I have a BYF 42 with a 135 proof that has a unmarked magazine and wood grips. Its a bring back by my late father in law. I wonder if its a late production pistol.
@@jamalwilburn228 The problem with that is someone may try and pass this off as the real Mccoy... again. Remember... it was sold as presumably real, but Tom detailed how it's probably a reworked parts gun. Just stamp the frame, barrel, and maybe the side plate.
If I had money for 5000+ dollar Lugers I would get a lawyer and go after the seller for fraud.
You have to show intent. That the seller knew it was fake. There are no laws to protect consumers from buying fake guns
@@jamalwilburn228
It seams to be a repeated behavior. Feigning ignorance only gets you so far.
@@Foche_T._Schitt It's law. You have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Suspicion doesn't mean jacksh*t in court. The lawyer who takes the case is only doing it so he/she can charge you their $300 hourly fees.
@jamalwilburn228
not necessarily.. if you pass a counterfeit $100 it matters not about your intent you go to lock up untill the FBI gets done with you and usually it goes on your record for life weather you do jail time or not ... "I didn't know" is no excuse
Learned a lot. Thanks! I went to Ralph Shattuck’s house in Arizona around 1999 and saw his impressive collection in his walk in safe room. I got a mint 1934 Swiss Contract DWM in 7.65 that he said was from some collector’s estate and was likely never fired after the factory, and a 1914 DWM Naval Luger with a long barrel and artillery sights in 9mm also in mint condition but probably fired a few times. I also got a copy of his book.
Put the GunBroker seller's screen name up...
Seriously expose this guy! Your viewers will only be protected by us knowing Tom, and something tells me not all of his buyers are your viewers. There’s a subtle way to go about it like showing the listing
How are we to know the seller knew it was a fake? He could've been fooled himself as this takes someone who is very knowledgeable to know its fake.
Many Luger owners are nowhere near this experience and just like the gun and have money
@@jamalwilburn228- Tom implied in the video that he's seen the seller offering other pistols that appeared to have been 'monkeyed with'.
He just taught you how to tell... and he told you he sells them... so he's one of the dealers.
Good stuff.
Hello, and thanks for this video. As usual, I did learn something. And to me, quite something. I am portuguese and this country had Lugers on its armed forces, before turned to the Walther P-38. Back then, we had also PPs and PPKs for the police. Here a civilian can not own guns normally (as we can not defend our home and family even with a registered permitted gun now)... Anyway I am a Luger fan, as I am a fan of everything that is well made... And I love your channel. I hope you can stay around for quite long time.
Great video, Tom!
It made me go out to the safe and get my BYF 41 All matching but I think the grips have been replaced. They are wood and I think one has a faint 135 stamp on it. Anyway keep these videos coming they are great info for the up-and-coming collector😊
The grips on the Luger are Bakelite the very first industrial plastic material. Bakelite is a hard resin that's heated in an oven and then pressed in to shape using a form mounted in a hydraulic press. If one doesn't have the press or the Bakelite bricks, then it's nigh impossible to make components that look like Bakelite. The pistol grips showed are cast, hence all the bubbles.True Lugar grips are pressed.
You are doing the world a great service, thank you.
Thanks for putting out these educational and helpful videos Tom. Its too easy nowadays to get scammed and you're helping to counter that trend tremendously.
Great video with excellent explanations of how to spot a fake. You are correct in not destroying the firearm. It is best to broadcast it to the public and I'm sure it would make a wonderful shooter grade handgun for someone on a budget.
I used to work for John V. Martz the Luger Carbine maker and I liked working on DWM pistols but never cared for the "Black Widow" P08.
I’ve heard a lot about him being an artist from a friend of mine who said his dad used to sell him Walther parts.
@@Nick_B_Bad Yes!
@@CameronMcCrearyman that had to be cool working for him! I’m a machinist and axis pistol collector and just recently heard about Martz. Had to be fun and interesting working with him!
@@Nick_B_Bad It was fun but demanding. I got to pick the stock walnut pieces and made springs and ejectors from Sheffield spring steel purchased from England. Some of the best springs were made from this steel. I also made coil springs from round stock converted to square stock for his heavier caliber recoil springs.
Tom you should publicly expose these FAKE sellers
how can you prove they knew they were selling fakes?
I worked for a class 3 manufacturer and he had a friend that was also a class 3 manufacturer that guy had a industrial grade Pantagraph machine and he would make all the Waffen amp stamps for a particular type of weapon.
We used to get mixed parts sets in and needed to sand or polish off the original markings and restamp everything correctly.
Because he built these weapons on his marked recievers there was no way a later seller could say it was "faked" since the numbered receiver was not original.
So its not hard to see sellers pulling a fast one on buyers by restamping parts.
that's what you get for buying ww2 german memorabilia
Thanks, Tom, for an excellent and informative video. I used to see Ralph Shattuck at the MAX Show, but first met him when his wife and he came to Germany on vacation, and we were at the came Biergarten table. We immediately found that we were both Shriners and had a nice conversation.
I’m surprised he didn’t add a Deaths Head to the holster to try and milk a little more out of it. 😂
We all know every “black widow” came off an SS General at a concentration camp. 😂
Really enjoy your videos, very informative ! I have to admit , I had a cousin that about 20 years ago was faking lugers and was proud to tell me about it. He and I didn't talk for about a year as I told him how wrong that was .I always wondered where those guns wound up.
You can't beat them black grips they just set it off perfectly
You have to wonder if the actual forger of this Black Widow is watching this Taking Notes for what NOT TO DO in the future . ..LOL
agree
Buyer beware is the best rule when buying high dollar guns, Always do your research!!!!
Old time collectors used white to make the numbers more viable. It can be clean off with a mild solvent and nylon brush without effecting the original finish.
viewable
Yah I know, dam spell check.
I have one of the 1941 transition lugers with the matching baseplate. It's an "A" suffix in the 9000 range.
I have a byf 41 Luger. Black grips but grey magazine. 135 proof and virtually every part has the last 2 digits of serial on it. If my serial is on the barrel it’s so light I can’t see it however underside of barrel has proof mark. Bought it in a pawn shop in 95 for $500ish. The pawnshop dealer said it was a Luftwaffe pistol because it’s a Mauser and not a DWM which is more valuable. After this video I don’t know what I have. The only thing waxed is the safety no numbers or marks have any waxing
And yes the waxing is very yellowed
Black Widows weren't popular till a couple years ago.
i love it when chuck mcgill tells me about lugers
I have a BYF 41 Luger I got from my dad 30 years ago. All numbers match except the magazine, it's the aluminum bottom. The condition from 1 to 10, 10 being brand new, I would say it's a 9. No rust, very little wear. It has the 655 markings. How would I find out the value of it? Thanks
call this guy....wow that was difficult
That pig skin holster….It’s beautiful. I doubt $2,000 would buy it. Very jealous
A very useful and educational video. My thanks.
The finish quality is so bad from byf compared to earlier Lugers. As a collector, I like the high quality finishes.
I wonder why he would use a WWI holster instead of a WWII one? Seems it would be easier, same with why go to the trouble of stamping numbers
I would think the way to do it would just be to add the black grips and mag bottom.
I liked the Brown Recluse…I’m going to use it !
Probably cheaper
Probably the original holster before all the markings were ground off and redone?
I like the Brown Recluse better. The brown grips are very attractive on the black metal. 🙂
Totally agree!
Hope I can make it to the show of shows in 2024.
They are the most incredible shows and you can't see everything in just one day.
I'd bet that if you could (unfortunately) destructively test the fake grips and mag bottoms by shaving a a tiny piece off, you would find that the fakes are made from a casting resin. That's why there are bubbles on the inside of the fake grip panels, because pouring resin into a mould drags air in with it and bubbles can't always escape before the resin cures.
The original grips and mag bottoms would be made from Bakelite, which uses heat and pressure to polymerise it, so unless the part was very (very) badly designed, there shouldn't be any bubbles/voids at all.
Arrgh! Pause the video around 0:50 and play 'spot the difference.' Mauser production didn't vary that much surely? I wonder what inspection stamps are inside the frames? Best bet would be to use it as a parts gun. It's an expensive shame but what can you do?
A database of fakes would be very helpful.
The fake gun has CHARACTER! A good Man seeking a good Woman may notice that maybe some prominent parts of her curvy features are fake, or Enhanced if you will? But still is so very attractive and wonderful. Why? Because she has CHARACTER!
Could you stamp on it where it's not visible right away like under the hand grips Reproduction / Fake or something like that?
l just learned something here.....Thanks Tom you are the best my friend.....
Old F-4 Phantom 2 Shoe🇺🇸
Anyone know the name of the seller?
Thanks for the valuable information as alway. Happy New Year!
Why don’t you put a little stamp somewhere on it indicating it’s a reworked Luger and not original?
Please let us know the on line seller.
50 years ago I had a 32 cal. MAB with the black grips and it had the nazi proof/inspection symbols all over it. I was told there was less than 2000 made don’t know what happened to it but I’ve been curious what it was worth. Does anyone know
If it was an MAB C that was one of the roughly 2600 procured for the German army then you had one rare pistol there. That is just a 600 more than the elusive Unique 16 which I just seen a complete rig sell for $3800 a few months back.
Didn’t East German post war Lugers have black grips ? I remember back in the late 80’s early 90’s when I had my shop there was quite a few reproduction parts for the Luger mainly because the Luger wasn’t a expensive gun but collectors were beginning to pick them up and by the early 2000’s especially after saving private Ryan came out all things ww2 took off suddenly German stuff that wasn’t readily accessible started showing up..and so did the price…that’s cool I have own pistol and helmet collection myself…
The term "Black Widow" was made up in the mid to late 70's by Ralph Shattuck, because plastic gripped Lugers were not selling.
Think about it wood grips are a lot more labor intensive than plastic.
The plastic gripped guns are later in the war when resources were getting low, it was all about getting
guns out. As an old friend of mine's father used to say "There is an *** for every seat"
They are interesting as late war guns and aren't as common as their wood grip brother from the same years.
Problems are people acting like they're very rare, and anyone can swap out grips and magazines. So the guns get damaged, but they continue to survive on another gun. Also, these weren't ever issues to XX like some believed. Just anyone in the Whermacht
You can say ass. No one is going to reprimand you.
I bet alot of soldiers comeing back swaped the cheaper looking plastic grips for the fancyier wood ones.
Sir my grandfather has an army luger that was mistakenly nickel plated by my cousin, can it be stored into its original state?
Destroying any quality firearm ought to be a crime, even if it is not an "authentic" collectible!
I suggest that once a faked collectible is identified, an additional stamp could be applied somewhere on the frame under the grips, stock or furniture. Some variant of "assembled" or "N-O" (for "Non-Nriginal") or even "N/A" indicating "Not Authentic" should suffice, especially given popular online forums where collecting communities can discuss and develop standards.
I’ve got a byf 42 with those wood grips and 135 proofs.
I've wread about the Gray ghost's of Orbendoufv P-38s from some Sub penn
Hello, the fake one appears to have 97 stamped on the safety bar instead of 91. 🤔
is there a replica luger ? even if it's in .22 ?
Look at the 655 stamp. The real 655 has the 5 in the center at a 90 degree angle but the 6 is about 5 degrees? Or so at an angle and the same with the other 5 so they are at 85, 90 and 95 like they are stamped around a center point. The fake is all 90 degrees.
BYF 42's had wood grips as well. I have one (numbers matched)
The whole craziness for these "black widows" is silly. Total made up marketing nonsense. If anything I would venture to say the BYF42/41s with wood grips are more uncommon.
Not to mention the black grips are not numbered. There is no real way to be certain one left the factory with them. I could take the wood grips off my BYF42 and slap some original black bakelite ones on there and just about double its value.
I have an S42 Luger dated 1936, and it has a matching holster dated 1936. Would this be considered WW1 or a mid years Luger? Obviously it isn't a WW2 manufactured Luger but it was used in WW2 (it is a captured Luger).
It would be considered a pre-war Nazi era Luger.
Thanks brother.
Great video found it extremely educational. I have a 1941 dated Luger that matches your description but the toggle has 42 instead of byf would this be considered a black widow?
As a past Luger collector I hate the term "Black Widow"! The byf lugers were the highest production of all wartime guns! Good marketing and took advantage of stupid noob collectors! Just my opinion!
Also remember that black Bakelite grips were standard replacement in armorers kits.
“Black widows” aren’t even a real thing, it’s literally an American marketing ploy.
Wish you would've shown the action, even though I know it.
Awesome info👏🏻👏🏻👍👍
w/d tom, hope xmas went gd
Do words not work?
WTF does w/t Xmas gd
"Well done Tom. I hope Christmas went good". There I fixed for you
Just got your Luger book. I'm not even a collector, but have a few Luger books now and yours is my favorite. Love reading about and looking at the finite details. Got addicted to reading Messerschmitt Bf 109 e and Macchi C.202 Folgore stats, so the Luger history has been a nice accompaniment.
The seller? Mauser?
Caveat emptor! Thank you for your honesty.
The cooler sounding the nickname, the more likely it isn’t authentic.
Fake gun? If you shot me with it, would it be a fake wound? Plenty of value as a shooter grade Looger that you wouldn't mind taking to the range.
Add a discreet stamp with the word "fake" where it would be hard to remove
That way it can't be mistaken.
then no one would buy it lol
luv this guy
I also have a german luger,from my grandfather
Jim Kemp would say white wax hides something 😊
A comment on selling a faked gun, i agree not to destroy it, maybe you could add your own personal mettel stamp to it, I have a skull and cross, bones, maybe that could signify that it's a creation, and still a gun to preserve, your videos are great, cool 😎
Simply Awesome!!!
As soon as the gloves came out ...I'm levn
come back
Definitely a fake but great for a user and still keep the real one in pristine condition!!!
… happy newYear ..?
Well stamp it fake or reproduction or modified "in English" and you stop all the crooks trying to resell it as authentic.
This just saved me $3200
how about stamping 'FAKE" under the grips a couple of places... and into the grip panels..
I like your idea
I would be kinder & use the word 'repro'
Nobody watches on computers anymore...😂
Ah, another lord flaggington vid.
Fake Lugers disgust me
41 42 code black widow?
Nope. In my opinion.. not legit
A friend of mine has a set of lugers, nazi insignia on the grips, built in silencer.
Wonder if they are worth anything.
Its sorta ironic that tom tells us how to find a fake when he was caught faking a black widow haha. He's also had a lot of fake stuff in his store without mentioning its fake.
purchase at your own risk 😂
My first luger was a byf 41 in fine shape..I bought it in 59 or 60, paying $75 ...that was before I caught the quest for luger virus. Unfortunately (I was a dumb 20 year old at the time) I scratched my name and address on the inside of the left hand grip..(Roger d..., 730 and 1/2 ma..... Dr, v....e, california). If anybody now has that gun, I sincerely apologize..when you're 20 you know from nothing.
Could you tell us the guy's name who faked it?
nah that's messed up
Sell it to Rotten Ralph's family. Lol
Why not engrave it so people can tell it isn't a true WW2 Luger.
then he couldn't make money from it
I have a BYF 42 with a 135 proof that has a unmarked magazine and wood grips. Its a bring back by my late father in law. I wonder if its a late production pistol.
The wood grips also have the last two digits of the serial number on them. It also has the bakelite mag, assensually a Black Widow with wood grips.
call tom
You need to get a stamp that says FAKE and stamp these on the frame
It is still a nice luger , Not as valuable as a genuine Black widow but still nice.
The camera work is less than desirable ! So sad !
Shouldn't the guy selling these fakes be reported to the proper authorities?
what would be the crime?
You should make the gun as being fake, by stamping it inside the frame!!
Tom Thank you thank you thank you for saying that the black widow was a made up term 👍
The golden Luger from Obersturmbandführer Rudolph Winkler woud be nice to see
Just stamp "Fake" in several key spots... its not a collectible piece.
I like it. thanks
Just leave it alone and let someone get a nice Luger for an affordable price
@@jamalwilburn228 The problem with that is someone may try and pass this off as the real Mccoy... again. Remember... it was sold as presumably real, but Tom detailed how it's probably a reworked parts gun. Just stamp the frame, barrel, and maybe the side plate.
If they're fake and you're selling it as a fake. Then ingrave fake on the inside of the frame
If I can ever afford one I’d only buy from Legacy
man no wonder they lost everything they used was so over engineered
that's not the only reason
How do the Bakelite grips hold up after 80 years, do they deteriorate at all? 🇦🇺
The only thing I care about does it go bang
Well if you go by today's attempted impossession of how you're supposed to think it MUST be real by how it looks. 😏