Ford sued by Mustang Mach-E owners over battery faults
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Ford sued by Mustang Mach-E owners over battery faults
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#ford #evnews #mache #ev
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The problem is the contactors in question are inside the battery pack. A bad place to overheat and catch fire. They normally don't open the battery packs at the service center.
OK this is the bit of information that makes sense of things. Thanks
Inside the pack? Ouch. I'm assuming they aren't built with DFM (design for maintenance) as a priority. In fact, they probably designed it to be sealed for the life of the vehicle and opening it may lead to future leaks/faults. Again..."ouch"
Check the Munro stripdown
I got mine in February of 2020 and now I have over 27000 miles on it. I love driving this vehicle and have had no issues other than the phone as key that is sometimes glitchy. It does have a feature where you can use key pad on the door and a backup code on the sync system.
Some early Tesla vehicles had issues with their contactors as well. They switched to ones that have contacts made of inconel. It is a very durable and heat resistant metal. I bet Ford will have to do the same.
Great channel which I subscribe to 👍.
In my opinion as an automotive litigation attorney, the number of Mach e vehicle owners participating in this lawsuit will not scare ford into changing anything.
I guarantee that statement. However for continued customer confidence moving forward ford should re examine there position on this and publicly address there customer concerns fixing a potential slowdown of a fragile ev manufacturing direction.
Is this a class action lawsuit? I have been offered a part in such a few of those in my lifetime. It usually goes like this: a lawyer or a legitimate customer finds a problem in a product or a service, the lawyer files a class action lawsuit and if you're eligible for compensation, you'll get a letter in the mail that has 10 pages of legalese and option to join the lawsuit.
Once I actually participated. "We" won. I (and others) got a check for 13 cents and the lawyer got $7M.
Defects are normal for Ford.Over the decades Ford has made mistakes and still let them be sold to the public..I owned a Ford once and it was a nighmare
Just like the defects are normal for GM & Chrysler (and other vehicle makers)? My point being, these things happen, known or not. Ford has addressed with an OTA update.
@@stevemit2858 Ford ranked 22nd out of 26 for reliability by consumer reports. They do not engineer their cars well. I own one and simple things are made so complicated and poorly I would never own another. Just bad managers and engineers from the top down.
Experienced the same. Got rental Fords over several years, finding the same defect over and over again.
To err is an opportunity to learn.
Dang, panel gaps looking fine in comparison to exploding batteries.
Fix Or Repair Daily.
They have issued a safety recall notice for which they don’t have a fix. Now using this vehicle for business the owner is liable.
I’m having this problem with my 2023
Ours said update successful . I don't know how a software can can fix a hardware problem, but so far the car runs fine.
Contactor or contacts? You said "contactor" while showing a picture of a connector. Connectors have contacts. A contactor is a relay.
Contactors are often enclosed. If the enclosure is opaque you only see the connectors.
It sounds like the contactor is either not engaging soon enough or the acceleration curve is allowing too much current through it under hard acceleration. Both of those could be solved with a software update. But only IF the contactor is not already been damaged by previous events. I don't think there is a good way to assess the health of the contactor if it's just slightly damaged so they should all be replaced unless the car had the fixed software installed at the factory.
A software repair would limit the current through the contactor. Then it’s not performing as represented and depending on the issue it could substantially reduce performance possibly both charging and driving. Total loss of power I’d a huge failure. Ford needs to figure this out and quickly, otherwise it’s a descent car. Mach E won’t be profitable for a long time not until the battery bottleneck is solved, they are too late to the game. Battery supply should have been felt with 5 years ago to be competitive and profitable. So this, imho, is not a good electric car.
Same thing happened to Ionq hybrid
New technology always has problems. But Ford, GM, and others should have been finding these issues out at least 5 years ago if they had taken EV's seriously considering the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S have been around for over 10 years.
I agree. Ford and GM waited way too long to get serious about EV's, so they must share some of the blame.
How hard can it be to replace the connector with a better one? It would be worth it for them to replace that part .
@@PhxElecAuto
Watch the Munro stripdown.
I'm pretty sure the "connectors" are solid state, on power control boards inside the pack.
So it's a major stripdown, and I replace with modified boards(?)
Fixing this issue is NOT a simple issue. Design… tooling … production line implementation costs hundred of millions of dollars…. plus 6 months of delays.
Not saying that ford should not do anything. I am saying that it will take time
Finally!!!
The truth of garbage product coming out!
U know Ford destroyed Jaguars image due to their extremely poor build quality.
Sam I love your stuff. Screw the haters. They are a sad lot.
If only 3 people are having the issue I don't see how the 3 people have any chance proving a conspiracy, they were probably just drag racing the cars too hard, and that would be proven when Ford engineers analyze the computer data.
As previously reported, this battery issue seems to relate to the primary contractor (like a very large circuit breaker) between the battery pack and the rest of the electrical system, such as the inverter(s) and electric motor(s). This contactor is engaged or disengaged to turn the system on and off. As such, the contactor can, under certain circumstances, become a point of both high current flow and high resistance, causing heating sufficient to weld together the metal of each side of the contactor, causing the contactor to become stuck closed/engaged. In this case, the battery can no longer be automatically disconnected from the rest of the vehicle's electrical system and the system is essentially stuck in its "on" mode, which could present safety problems, like for maintenance or in crashes or even normal operations, like for battery charging. If the previous reporting is correct, it would seem crazy if NHTSA has not already initiated a full investigation, since this would seem to pose a major safety issue, not just a potential operational problem, if the entire electric system is stuck in its electrically "live" / "on" mode. Regardless, Ford had better fix this problem immediately, before anyone crashes their Mach-E with the contactor welded and thus unable to disconnect the battery from the rest of the vehicle. Hopefully, Ford has another contactor in their Mach-E's electrical circuit so the battery can be manually disconnected by any first-responder, in the event of a crash.
Nice attempt at creating alarm but I believe you're not entirely correct. This contactor is not the main battery disconnect which is the one manually operated to isolate the battery pack for servicing the vehicle. I believe this contactor is inside the battery pack. All EV's have this. The ON mode is it's normal position. A failure would be if the contactor refused to blow (stay on). If it should freeze in the ON mode the manually operated external battery disconnect would still isolate the battery pack. It would not present a danger to service technicians. The contactor is designed to actuate to create a "safe" mode (open circuit), operating essentially as a Fuse. If it failed (refused to open the circuit) the danger would be in that you wouldn't know it was frozen ON and in an accident that somehow creates an external short of the high voltage battery it would not blow and would allow current to continue to flow and create a thermal runaway scenario for the battery. The problem with this contactor is likely that it's actually working too well but because it's internal to the sealed battery pack its not easily (cheaply) serviced. The battery pack needs to be removed from the vehicle and opened. Its acting the same as if you replaced a 20 amp breaker in your home's electrical panel with a 15 amp breaker. It would work most of time but you'd get a lot nuisance breaker tripping.
@@Tron-Jockey I appreciate your reply, as it does add clarity to my initial comment. We both agree that the Mach-E's problem has so far been traced to an automatic contactor that connects at least part of the battery pack to the rest of the electrical system and that it has the potential to fail closed (unable to open), becoming a possible safety issue in a crash or even during maintenance if the technician were not aware that the contactor had failed closed / failed to open as it is designed to normally do. There was no intention to generate fear in my initial comment, but rather just awareness of the source of the Mach-E's problem, as well as how the failure of the contactor might be caused. This possible failure, its possible cause(s) and its potential safety consequences are clearly still under investigation, at least by Ford, if not also by NHTSA. Until its cause(s) is (are) fully understood, it will be important that everyone be aware of the potential for the failure to occur, and how to recognize the failure and what to do and not do, if the failure should occur. Hopefully, Ford has already issued a service bulletin to its dealers, and a notification to each of the Mach-E owners to make them fully aware.
I like your reports
Keep up the good work.
You might want to look at Munro's teardown of the mach-e.
He was engineer at Ford years ago and he says they could have used a more concise design and saved a lot of complexity, etc
Dean,. Florida, USA
Many years ago now Sam, when I was just young and dumb I made the mistake of buying a brand new FORD and that horror, experience, cured me, FOR LIFE, of EVER, buying another one…! I am a fast learner, and what that shocking experience taught me was that the word, “FORD”, is the absolute equivalent of, and completely interchangeable for, another 4 letter word, ..”SHIT”…!!!!! 😡🤬🤬🤬
Old poem -
A salmon tin
A hunk of cord
Put it together
you've got a Ford.
Mach E is not a good EV. Don’t do consumers a disservice by promoting this car. It’s a lemon. Watch Munro’s tear down videos. The only way I’d own this car is if I got free or dirt cheap.
Wait till the F-150 comes out!!!!! LOL
This episode only highlights one of the problems with Tax Incentive programs to promote a new technology. It allows manufacturers to hold their high margins without feeling the pain of their carelessness and fecklessness. If those incentives did not exist then Ford would be compelled to take much greater care to ensure that the quality of their EVs was such that litigation and recalls could be avoided or greatly diminished.
What high margin? According to the Viking it is NEGATIVE!
The fault much be the same all over the world ? The car is the same
Hm, I had one on order but cancelled it when Ford, not the dealer, raised the price without telling me.
wow!
If Ford cannot manage an EV without major component faults, then they have no hope lol
Functionally, this sort of defect is analogous to the GM ignition switches that would spontaneously turn the engine off while it was being driven. The Baker Electric automobile company had this figured out 123 years ago, and Ford can't figure it out today?
I like the new thumbnails but they may stand out less, just a thought
Old FORD Ad campaign -
Ford - where QUALITY is Job One
Looks like they've gone right to Job Two (oh crud, not #2).
buy with emotion cost more later
My car has been unusable for 1 month out of the first year I've owned it due to "software issues" and then my main contactor failed and they don't have any parts....
Any update on your car and how it went? I need to take mine in for this fix tomorrow.
A German driver of a Model X sued Tesla because of not working Autopilot and won. What did she win? She gets the money back for her Tesla minus usage cost. Most Model 3 until April 2022 will fail the mandatory german TÜV check after 3 years because their underbody is broken at the mount points. Tesla says thats no problem. TÜV says it IS a problem and they are not safe for public traffic anymore. Oh well...
Most Model 3 cars have broken mount points? Link to this information please.
I just got my Recall letter in the mail. It says that a software update will arrive around the middle of July 2022. Lets see... at this point I thing we can all agree we are past the middle of July...
Known, unsolved issues should be reflected in the sticker price.
is this defect likely to be on the lighting also?
As of today I took my Mach e gt to my local ford dealer for this same issue. I’ve had it for a year now with 27k miles and sad that this has come up. I don’t know what’s going to happen next and scared I won’t have my mach e any more if they can’t fix it.
I'm going to have to take in mine tomorrow, how did your fix go.
of course it's a ford
20 states broke their high temp record in July of 1936,, when CO2 was below 300 ppm..
..............July of 1936 had;
4 States with temps over 120 degrees F
23 States with temps over 110 degrees F
43 States with temps over 100 degrees F
All States had temps over 90 degrees F
As a farmer I'm aware of that the climate is changing: it is not always dramatic but a definite change is happening. Global Warming is perhaps not the best way to describe it, climate change is a better term. Personally, less (car) fumes are a bonus for my health.
@@farmerpete6274 The climate is always changing It has several times in the 20th Century. And air quality has improved massively in the last 20 yrs, all major air pollution measures of air pollution have declined. From the EPA'
Nationally, concentrations of air pollutants have dropped significantly since 1990:
- Carbon Monoxide (CO) 8-Hour, 77%
- Lead (Pb) 3-Month Average, 80%
- Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) Annual, 56%
-Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) 1-Hour, 50%
-Ozone (O3) 8-Hour, 22%
-Particulate Matter 10 microns (PM10) 24-Hour, 34%
-Particulate Matter 2.5 microns (PM2.5) Annual, 41%
-Particulate Matter 2.5 microns (PM2.5) 24-Hour, 40%
-Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) 1-Hour, 88%
-Numerous air toxics have declined with percentages varying by pollutant
During this same period, the U.S. economy continued to grow, Americans drove more miles and population and energy use increased.
Lawyers are great at throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. I'd be really surprised if this goes anywhere unless they can find a "smoking gun" email from the engineers. And Ford IS distributing that OTA fix as we speak.
(BTW, I own a Mach-E... VERY happy with the car 😊)
Cool to hear from an owner.
Do you think ford has forgotten the pinto gas tank?
Okay...so why aren't Tesla owner suing Teslas for BURNING UP? Shouldn't TESLA have known about and corrected those issues before selling their cars? Or the unfinished software requiring BUG FIXES (a.k.a. 'OTA UPDATES')?
The double standards are amazing here...
A totally unnecessary lawsuit period. Ford will buy the car back and give you every penny you paid for it and then some.
Mach E looks like a good vehicle. Best to quickly fix hardware and soft ware problems smartly and get on with producing an improved car at scale to satisfy more customers.
You should watch the video on the Munro Live channel where Sandy Munro and his assistant compare the Mach-E’s thermal system, vs that of the Tesla model Y, hilarious. The engineering is vastly superior on the model Y, no way would I get a Mach-E. If you already own a Mach-E don’t watch the video.
Should be renamed the ‘E-burro’ 😂😂😂
I have a 2023 this is still happening. STOP SAFELY NOW IS HAPPENING all the time.
With all the bull floating around it always pays to be skeptical about anything you read on line or hear on the news. A tendency to believe what you want to believe is human nature and it takes a wise person to question everything. Thanks Sam - hang in there. Rick WA state USA
It is becoming much harder to find the truth these days on so many issues.
I would never buy any American brand vehicle. In the past I had too many bad experiences and too many disappointments. My experiences have been so bad I will never go back!
I wonder what those car channels folks who bought the Mach E over the korean, European and Japanese EV have to say about it in the U.S.
Viewer challenge!
Everytime you see a spam comment, report it. I just did 8 of them...who can do more?
Its a ford. everything they make has issues. Everything the "big 3" makes has multiple issues.
Legacy car makers expect to learn everything Tesla has in a very short time. That's not working very well for them.
Have you driven a Ford lately?
Found On Road Dead........
Pinto redux!
Anyone thinking of making the BIG MISTAKE, of buying a FORD Mustang Mach-e, needs to first, have a look at Sandy Munro’s absolutely scathing Tear-Down of it, and the absolutely SHIT, Engineering of it by FORD, that is all tucked away and hidden underneath the glossy paint-job, and FORDs “shiny marketing bullshit”…!! 🙄
Sandy was pretty fair, he liked all sorts of things about the Mach-E but absolutely hated all the cooling pipework... ...and too many different contactors.
Ford and GM battery problems calls into question their engineering skills.
There are plenty of successful EVs out there that dont have battery problems, if they cant work it out from first principles simply buy a few examples of successful vehicles and reverse engineer it.
Mach-E owners can use that $7500 credit for Uber rides.
Easy solution buy a Tesla who have been figuring these things out for years or don't buy an ev like me!
Ford is a joke. I owned a 2000 Ford Ranger EV NIMH luckily, every EV component was made elsewhere and the batteries were Toyota/PANASONIC
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Finally a useful story about nazi-legacy auto
Americans sure love to sue, You only have to bump into one and it's "you got a lawsuit on your hands buddy" 🤣
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Just completed a 1000 mile road trip in our new Pre Recall Mach E and super happy. It's our first EV and we are impressed with the car. All cars have issues and Ford will fix these issues in time.
@Electric Viking: This problem is not "pretty small" when Ford is recalling every single Ford Mach-E it ever produced to fix the problem!
BYD makes a profit in their EVs? Yahoo Finance says they make 1.5% profit as a company, and they make both ICE and EVs, so I would expect that they are making EVs at a loss.
If true then BYD isn't ripping off customers. 😎👍