In terms of bang for the buck, it's hard to beat the Sub 37. Tonally, I hear the differences between them but I find I don't really prefer one over the other. The features in terms of modulation not to mention the arp/sequencer really makes the Sub 37 incredible. I love mine. I think it's one of the best products Moog has ever produced. Thanks for your efforts!
I like the way both of them sound. They may not be identical, but that's not a shortcoming. When my own Voyager is fully functioning and I wish to make it grittier, I like having the option to bring that in externally. One thing which I'm confident that the 37 can't do is program a 3rd oscillator to produce a pedal tone. One of the presets in my Voyager Electric Blue has an A drone coming from OSC 3.
Lots of interesting bits in there, thanks. I like the lfo swing trick on the sub37, didnt know about it, that's pretty cool. It s good to see that in the end they both have their distinctive sound and features.
They def have their own character. In some ways they can sound very much the same while for others they are so very much their own. I have a Sub 37, but really would like to add a Model D or a Voyager. Great video!
I like using the midi out to run a Behringer D plugged into the External audio in to get more oscillators into the Sub 37 (at the expense of feedback).
Had to go with my heart and get the Voyager first. I've been waiting for like 10 years. But of course I plan to snag a Subsequent 37 as well before they go out of production.
I'm not really a keyboard player but the sound of minimoog is stuck in my ear from countless recordings. I've been looking into analog mono synths lately and been bummed out that the vast majority of products I've looked into (mostly around max 1k) cannot offer that certain tone and/or features. Your comparison really helped me to grasp what I was missing. So all in all, time to start saving and aim higher :)
BTW Just got home with a new Subsequent37. I found demo unit for a good price at a music fair event. Same instrument & features as Sub37 but the sound is a bit more clean and open ("voyagerish"? 😁). Lovin it! Thanks for the demo vids, the Sub37 step sequencer clip was a deal breaker 👍
The only let-down on the Sub-37 is its 3-octave range. Suitable perhaps for electronica or dance music, but not for burning jazz/-prog-rock solos where you want to solo til the end of the earth without having to reach for octave up or down buttons.
To me, it's more important to be able to make very "living" sounds, with the complexity of dual LFO's and complex patching. Even without that, I slightly prefer the more modern sound of the Sub37, even if the Voyager does some kinds of sounds better (true triple oscillators is very nice). The Sub 37 is the winner, for me, and that's even before looking at the price difference.
The osc beating on the 37 is duento overdriven vca on mixer .past 60% volume of the oscillators it saturates it , reduce vol to 50% and both will sound identical. Sam trick was used in the Rogue.
When I recorded this I tested the saturation over 50%. I found that the freq analysis only increased in volume - no change in the harmonics but there was a very slight softening of the oscillator shapes - i.e. the difference was minimal. One day I'll get round to uploading the tests I did - but probably only about 10 of us would find it vaguely interesting! It definitely doesn't sound the same at 50% - or any other level for that matter - I was fully expecting it would make a big difference.
Great job as usual !!! I’ve noticed that during the comparison, especially at 3:00 you’re using the 4 poles filter mode on sub37, maybe using 1 pole could have made the sound a bit brighter and close to the voyager?
I now have both synths. The voyager’s lovely, and I’m delighted with the subsequent 37 CV, that it’s different, harder brighter louder than the voyager, arguably “better” dare I say it than the Voyager, but when I want to make really lovely music, I reach for the Voyager. The Sub37 is great, and very much a real Moog!
@@tris421 valid point, but still I feel like if you're gonna use a vst synth for a track it's mainly for getting as close to the real thing as possible for a specific task, where-as the main draw to analog gear is crafting and sculpting unique sounds in an intuitive knob turning engaging experience. if I desperately needed a voyager or model d sound I'd use arturia mini v3 and get an almost identical sound, but have less fun doing it. the end result on the finished track would sound pretty indistinguishable, especially once its treated with other vsts in the mix and master phase
@@glennyeah Hmm. I had many tracks made with Diva/Arturia synths. I then got my hands on a Moog Voyager and Prophet 6 and rerecorded every synth part. For me, the difference was still above and beyond. I think you can make incredible music in the box. But if your goal is to create music/sounds like analogue synths (and because all the music I listen to is) you can never beat the real thing. I suppose I can't say one thing sounds better than the other but to my ears the sound of a filter sweep or a natural pitch bend or just the raw oscillator sound just has way more magic.
Great video, thanks. First of all, if you own either one, you are winning!! One of the few times you can hear a little difference between two synths. But ultimately I think the Sub 37 is more interesting for me as its features add some interesting options for sound creation, minus touchpad on Voyager that is awesome. It has a sound that is sorta recognizable due to the drive features mixed with the filter, which is saying a lot for a Moog synth. Beat frequency and drive/feedback options on the panel are wicked.
Re: 7:42-ish You can use either LFO to modulate OSC 1 wave, and this also modulates the SUB as well - so you *can* do all 3 oscillators. Model D vs Sub, tough call - depends what you want it to do - Voyager vs Sub, Sub wins.
+Mark John Towse Thanks for the comment... at that point I was talking about modulating the waveshape, which is fixed on the Sub; so it can’t emulate the sound I’m demoing on the voyager, which is modulating all 3 oscillator waveforms. You’re right in that the pitch on the Sub can be modulated by modulating Osc1, which it follows perfectly. I think they’re both great synths - couldn’t pick a winner personally - so kept them both :)
I just went for the Korg ARP Odyssey and the Moog Sub37. I just can't go with the analogue action or whatever Roland call their recreation software. I prefer to have the real thing somewhere in the system even if it's not fully analogue. Hopefully I will have the 16 voice Korg Prologue in a couple of weeks time and I can keep it all on an analogue vibe.
Great demo! My store just bought in a Voyager and we have a Sub 37 in stock. After watching this, I’m siding with the Sub 37. And how in the world did you get that perfect Moroder sound when you said “classic sound”. I can not get my Sequential Take5 to do that. Lol
They’re both nice. I think I prefer the Sub as well. It just has this woody wooly sound to it that the Voyager can’t touch. It sounds warm and thick, very smudgy. I like it. Sure it’s not as bright as the voyager, but I like the darker tone. The voyager sounds great but I feel like it’s chasing the Model D vibes and the Sub gets to be its own instrument.
You have some of the best Moog videos around. I love the Minimoog D and Voyager but they are 3-4k more than the Sub 37 and I wanted the grittier sharper sound of the Sub 37. BUT if I had the extra 3k to spend, the Minimoog would be a definite want.
Thanks, the Mini was a definite treat. I also bought the Sub 37 for the grittier nature of the sound - I think this video really shows how different 2 synths can sound, simply by adding a second oscillator to a patch.
Nice! Yeah my budget only allowed me to buy the Sub 37 since I needed the cash for other things like software and I ended up getting the Komplete Kontrol S49 keyboard with Komplete 11 Ultimate which is awesome for the massive library of sounds and kit plugins for Ableton and Cubase.
It seems the Voyager is so much more robust, as if you can reach out and touch the sound, if that makes any sense. As great as the Sub 37 is, it either sounds thin and brittle or like it's under a blanket most of the time, but over all it's flat and one-dimensional.
Voyager for me ;) the Sub 37 is cool and different like both but will choose Voyager.. but i like the warmth of the Voyager .. also the Voyager is the REAL!!! Bob Moog design. Sub 37 he had no physical input on :) btw.. you are the bomb!!!. how can i get that sound on the Voyager around 7:02?
Thanks, nice to be appreciated :). As far as I recall that sound on the S37 is simply oscillator 2 detuned by +4 semitones, modulating only one of the waveforms with LFO 1 - basically a bit of PWM on a single osc. I also bring the sub in. On the Voyager you can't modulate the oscillators separately so the PWM is on all 3. Osc 2 +4 semitones, oscillator 3 -12 (I think!).
Love your programming skills man Check out what Stephen Stephan Bodzin can do with the sub 37. He sold it for me the guy is out of this world if you can do a demo on how he gets his sounds please do a video. As I love it
I know this will likely get me stalked and beaten but I've played with both and...I prefer the subby. Moog can't make a bad instrument but I just love the balls of the 37. So I bought it. It's a lot like the Roland jd-xa in its raw raspy gutsy sound.
When I've started with synthesisers long times ago (in 1978 with a Korg MS10) I thought that mono-synths are more or less the "poor man´s" entry to synthesisers. In the meanwhile (older and wiser ... 😉) I appreciate my Moog mono-synths (Subsequent 37 and Grandmother) as wonderful and powerful instruments. Ok, a poly-synth is great but the power and the sonic versatility of a (e.g.) Subsequent 37 is always breathtaking.
Its a Moog ladder filter with 12 and 24 dB options. It’s not based on the voyager filter which has 2 modes HP/LP and dual LP plus 1 - 4 pole modes (ie 6, 12, 18 or 24 dB slopes). It doesn’t have spacing to change the gap between the HP and LP or the dual outputs for stereo fx. It does, however, have the same 12kHz max cutoff, so I imagine it’s more of a cut down version of the voyager.
You have the sub 37 oscillators set to maximum volume which means they are overdriven. Default is meant to be 12o'clock I believe. Maybe you can get the two synths sounding more similar by pulling the volume of the oscillators back on the sub 37?
I've tested this, and might upload a video to show there's very little or no distortion in the wave shapes when taken over 5. Using an oscilloscope the shape of the waves remains constant, only the amplitude changes (i.e. the volume). It's weird I know...
Yes, I think I'll have to upload a video at some point showing the oscilloscope outputs. I edited it out of the comparison as it was getting far too geeky! I was certain they sounded 'fizzier' and even mentioned it in my Pro6 vs S37 video. I originally intended to show that they distorted in this by turning past 12 o'clock, but the results contradicted what I thought I new!! Looks like I'll just have to dig out the video clips :)
Currently looking at the Voyager and Subsequent 37. I really like the warm, smooth sound of the voyager however nowadays you have to buy one used. Any ideas for questions to ask sellers in regards to the voyager?
Not sure you know this but the Voyager has a very complex modulation section which goes way deeper than what you see on the front panel. Through the menu system. And probably way deeper the Sub 37 as well. (See Tim Shoebridge's video on Voyager modulation) Midi CC's can be used to modulate anything in fact. They could be drawn within the DAW in sync with its grid so it is possible to get a type of synced LFO going on. Voyager is the older Moog sound and I prefer it by far. They have deviated away from the traditional old school Moog sound with the Sub37. If you are into Tangerine Dream like music Voyager is the only option. I have Voyager and love it. It has that super deep creamy sound especially with leads that the newer ones don't.
Sub 37 seems to be a bit more metallic, and darker overall. Just got myself a Voyager, and I have my eyes set on either a Sub 25 or a 37. Leaning toward 37.
VOYAGER all day everyday.... I have a voyager as well but in this comparison i fell the sub 37 is a little to dark for me (it does sound fat thoe)... i've always loved brighter sounds rather than darker ones.... but the sub 37 is more modern and has more features... its totally understandable why people would choose the sub 37 over the voyager especially for the price range..... Remember thoe the two moog's have about a ten year difference when it comes to age... the fact that the Voyager can still compete after 10 years.....should tell you something..... shit is dope.....🔥
i believe the Sub 37 is the best deal for a Moog synth. i enjoy mine a lot and it makes me want another Moog (Mother-32). Starsky can i ask to make a video of some experimental patches with it? that'd be cool to see someone else's point of vue :)
nice to see such an indepth review, it does seem you haven't noticed that the tone of the sub37 oscs changes considerably when you back down the individual volumes, Levels around 9 o clock give a totally different vibe from eg 12 or 3 o'clock. I see you have them overdriven on max for pretty much the whole demonstration. Combining very low osc levels with a bit of multidrive or feedback can give a lot more variation in tone. There were quite a few comparisons where you said you couldn't match the sound, but i'm sure it is possible... both lovely pieces of kit, though!
Thanks for the comments. It's really interesting what you say about the sound of the oscillators over 9 o'clock. I actually tested this but thought it was far too geeky to upload - so congratulations (I think) for being as geeky as me ;) I ran the oscillators through the frequency analyser and turned them up gradually from 12 o'clock to full. I was surprised that the plot didn't change - there were no new harmonics introduced, or no change in volume relative to the existing peaks - they simply just increased in volume. . I also looked on a scope and the waveforms didn't change, so its possible that something else is happening, or I'm not interpreting the results correctly. It may just be that as the volume increases our ears are more sensitive to different frequencies. As I said, this surprised me. Maybe I'll upload the footage (I edited it out).
Likely responsible for the differences in tone is this, from the Sub 37 manual: "Settings higher than 5 push the level beyond unity, imparting gentle filter distortion."
Yes, that's what I was looking for on the plots, but couldn't see any signs of distortion. Maybe it's so gentle my freebie scopes don't have the resolution to pick it up. Worth a further look one day.
Both are awesome, but the Voyager is too damned heavy to gig with! The Sub is great to take out live. Also - the arpeggiator/sequencer. Also - there is a kind of intense grit on the Sub via the feedback and the multidrive you can't quite get on the Voyager. So i had to get both.
@@snoopyoverthehills I've got both, but only use the standalone. I find using it in a DAW session a bit of a pain tbh... but I guess its good for total recall. If you want to tweak in the DAW I just use automation lanes.
The keyboard quality is better with the voyager though. Anyway the choice is clear between the 2 especially since the voyager is no longer available for purchase unless you want to pay big bugs on ebay.
i'm sitting here with the massive x, zebra, voyager iOS, and monark. i've got the saws beating at a fifth tuning and an identical filter freak setting on each channel. i can tell you that out of those, i'll take massive x every day of the week and twice on sunday; but i cannot make anything like this first patch that you've made with either of these two analog critters. I got a way different result from the voyager iOS, but..... it's 3 OSC, all sawtooth, 8va and a fifth..... and a filter with no rez or overdrive? any thing else about this patch you've made? do i just get a richer result with the hardware?
Any chance to do a Voyaguer Vs Matrixbrute? I own the brute and I had the Voyager years ago, I’m tempted to trade it but It would be great to have your input and level of comparison on those top Mono’s Thanks
i listened to the comparison between the vintage model D and the sub 37 and the voyager.. moog should go back to the analog model D. So much more headroom on the D and the tones are less shrill sounding. They've gotten close..but modeling just isnt the same as old fashioned analog parts.
Starsky, I love your videos! One thing on the Voyagers inability to do dual LFO rhythmic patches is incorrect, with add on modules or using Voyager XL as I have. The XL has a patchable second LFO which allows that and more. I also have the Sub37 as well & my favorite feature apart from inbuilt sequencer as well as appegiator, is the loopable envelopes! 😃 They certainly can both cover similar & very different sonic ground 😊 That makes the Sub37 a keeper for me, although a tough decision between the sub37 & MDB Dominion 1. Problem is, I’ve now played with new Model D. I can’t bring myself to part with Voyager XL or sub37, although Sub37 may make a temporary departure to buy Model D & buy another Sub37 or Dominion 1 later... opinions very welcome on this decision. I think one of the key differences & correct me if Im wrong, the Model D is 100% discrete circuitry, has a 35k filter, whereas the Sub37 20 k and Voyager 12 k. Now if they had put discrete circuitry & 35k filter in the Voyager XL!!
I'm about to lose sleep for a week or two... purchased the Minimoog Model D reissue. Bank account looks rather unhealthy for it, but you only have one life and might as well enjoy it :) Cant wait to get recording it into some tracks!
Pretty impressed with Behringer Model D too. Looking forward to seeing what else Behringer brings out in the discrete analog synth circuitry classic copies. I'll be keen on grabbing any that add nicely to my mixes. Exciting times we live in! So many colours of sonic paint to choose from!
Sub 37 sounds quite good..too bad it's obviously not possible to fully open the filter at a price of 2k usd..you have to put 2k usd on top to get biting harmonics (model d)..sad
Shiiiiit....... I prefer so much the Voyager sound..........😩 And I feel a huge frustration because it's too expensive for me......... So frustrating..........
Great video! Maybe the darker sound is where the sub 37 got it's name from. Both absolutely gorgeous! Ever since i got my sub 37 it has me craving for more Moog... It's like a gateway Moog.....bwuuhaaahahahaha ;)
I would say that the Sub 37 sounds more "fizzy" than "gritty". That granular noise that you hear sounds tapered on the Sub 37; it's a bag of sand - the Voyager is a bag of rocks. Voyager also seems to have more harmonic presence than the 37 which sounds a bit muddy, like you are listening to something on the other side of a wall. I prefer the Voyager, but don't really love either.
There's an OSC mod available for the Voyager. It makes the Voyager sound brighter and simply better. Check out Rudi Linhard, the german Moog specialist. He's changing some chips.
no doubt about it, for me, unexspectly ,the sub 37 sounds much more fatter/deeper/more powerfull then the voyager and any one who cant hear this diferance and disagrees with need there ears sorting.
![Moog, Retailers, And Clones [Op-ed]](/img/1.gif)
In terms of bang for the buck, it's hard to beat the Sub 37. Tonally, I hear the differences between them but I find I don't really prefer one over the other. The features in terms of modulation not to mention the arp/sequencer really makes the Sub 37 incredible. I love mine. I think it's one of the best products Moog has ever produced. Thanks for your efforts!
The Sub 37 is way less expensive so that is why I bought it and easier to use as a newbie to analog synths.
Risking Conversations completely agree
I personally prefer the more modern sound of the Sub 37, though the triple oscillator of the Voyager is very nice.
sub 37 - imo - looks much better too....
Love your Moog vids mate!
couldn't make up my mind, so I bought both.
Desert island?
LMAFOOOOOO I WOULD OF DONE THE SAME THING IF I HAD THE MONEY...😂
Welcome to the world of synthesizers. Don't ever look at eurorack!
Money must grow on trees where your from 😆
Awesome review! I wish more people did videos like this.
I like the way both of them sound. They may not be identical, but that's not a shortcoming.
When my own Voyager is fully functioning and I wish to make it grittier, I like having the option to bring that in externally.
One thing which I'm confident that the 37 can't do is program a 3rd oscillator to produce a pedal tone. One of the presets in my Voyager Electric Blue has an A drone coming from OSC 3.
An excellent video, as usual from Starsky. Thank you.
Lots of interesting bits in there, thanks. I like the lfo swing trick on the sub37, didnt know about it, that's pretty cool. It s good to see that in the end they both have their distinctive sound and features.
They def have their own character. In some ways they can sound very much the same while for others they are so very much their own. I have a Sub 37, but really would like to add a Model D or a Voyager. Great video!
18:23 the stereo is really special. Gorgeous sound
I like using the midi out to run a Behringer D plugged into the External audio in to get more oscillators into the Sub 37 (at the expense of feedback).
lo probare,gracias
Nice idea! 👍
do you have to mirror the settings on the d?
Thank you so much. This should get more views!
it would if it was about volcas etc ;)
love your comparisons in general. in this case I prefer the voyager by a country mile. so much more musical sounding!
Definitely agree! I feel like I want both though!
@@jackthemurray I'm glad we're still in agreement 3 years later 😂😂
@@funkmachine6420 5 years on, voyager still rules!
Great video!! Love these sort of comparison videos. Extremely helpful. Thank you!
Both will hold their value and probably increase. Buy them now!
Couldn't agree more!
Sooo nice! Anyway i can get the preset at 5:58 for the Sub 37? please?
That missing top end on the 37 is a shame as it adds such a shine to that housey stab at 4:45
ditto 19:30
Had to go with my heart and get the Voyager first. I've been waiting for like 10 years. But of course I plan to snag a Subsequent 37 as well before they go out of production.
You are doing a great job mate, thanks a lot! :D
Great comparison vids, thank you!
+petterisariola Thanks, glad you liked them
I'm not really a keyboard player but the sound of minimoog is stuck in my ear from countless recordings. I've been looking into analog mono synths lately and been bummed out that the vast majority of products I've looked into (mostly around max 1k) cannot offer that certain tone and/or features. Your comparison really helped me to grasp what I was missing. So all in all, time to start saving and aim higher :)
+petterisariola I apologise to your bank account, future holidays, partner and any children you may have 😀
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 !!!!!!
BTW Just got home with a new Subsequent37. I found demo unit for a good price at a music fair event. Same instrument & features as Sub37 but the sound is a bit more clean and open ("voyagerish"? 😁). Lovin it! Thanks for the demo vids, the Sub37 step sequencer clip was a deal breaker 👍
The only let-down on the Sub-37 is its 3-octave range. Suitable perhaps for electronica or dance music, but not for burning jazz/-prog-rock solos where you want to solo til the end of the earth without having to reach for octave up or down buttons.
Mind you, 3-1/2 octaves isn’t really any better for said burning solos … 😊
Moog Vs Moog 👏👏👏👏
+Alex Senna nothing like a bit of Moog on Moog action
To me, it's more important to be able to make very "living" sounds, with the complexity of dual LFO's and complex patching. Even without that, I slightly prefer the more modern sound of the Sub37, even if the Voyager does some kinds of sounds better (true triple oscillators is very nice). The Sub 37 is the winner, for me, and that's even before looking at the price difference.
The osc beating on the 37 is duento overdriven vca on mixer .past 60% volume of the oscillators it saturates it , reduce vol to 50% and both will sound identical. Sam trick was used in the Rogue.
When I recorded this I tested the saturation over 50%. I found that the freq analysis only increased in volume - no change in the harmonics but there was a very slight softening of the oscillator shapes - i.e. the difference was minimal. One day I'll get round to uploading the tests I did - but probably only about 10 of us would find it vaguely interesting! It definitely doesn't sound the same at 50% - or any other level for that matter - I was fully expecting it would make a big difference.
Sub 37 sounds a like the signal is getting saturated either in or before the filter. Gives it something to chew on!
Absolutely love the patch @ 1:08...
Trying to recreate it on my new Sub Phatty >:)
Have the sub37 but will be selling it for a voyager. It's really the endgame in terms of Moog sound
So the Voyager is the last real moog ?
They both sound amazing to me. I slightly prefer the darker and warmer tones of the sub. But you can’t go wrong either way:)
Great job as usual !!! I’ve noticed that during the comparison, especially at 3:00 you’re using the 4 poles filter mode on sub37, maybe using 1 pole could have made the sound a bit brighter and close to the voyager?
Not really but I know what you’re getting at. It still sounds different … in a different sort of way! But we’re still not getting those highs.
Sub 37 is a Champion.
The sub 37 is bang for the buck.
yup thats why I bought one! The store did not have the more expensive models on display and after playing the Sub 37, it was love at first touch.
I now have both synths. The voyager’s lovely, and I’m delighted with the subsequent 37 CV, that it’s different, harder brighter louder than the voyager, arguably “better” dare I say it than the Voyager, but when I want to make really lovely music, I reach for the Voyager. The Sub37 is great, and very much a real Moog!
I much prefer the chord bubbly voyager sound than the Sub 37 one that you say is gorgeous. I feel like you could easily make that on Diva etc.
feel like you could easily make the voyager sounds in diva as well, thats kinda not the point of analog synths
@@glennyeah Nah there is still juice in the movement of the analogue sound that software still cannot recreate.
@@tris421 valid point, but still I feel like if you're gonna use a vst synth for a track it's mainly for getting as close to the real thing as possible for a specific task, where-as the main draw to analog gear is crafting and sculpting unique sounds in an intuitive knob turning engaging experience. if I desperately needed a voyager or model d sound I'd use arturia mini v3 and get an almost identical sound, but have less fun doing it. the end result on the finished track would sound pretty indistinguishable, especially once its treated with other vsts in the mix and master phase
@@glennyeah Hmm. I had many tracks made with Diva/Arturia synths. I then got my hands on a Moog Voyager and Prophet 6 and rerecorded every synth part. For me, the difference was still above and beyond. I think you can make incredible music in the box. But if your goal is to create music/sounds like analogue synths (and because all the music I listen to is) you can never beat the real thing. I suppose I can't say one thing sounds better than the other but to my ears the sound of a filter sweep or a natural pitch bend or just the raw oscillator sound just has way more magic.
Great video, thanks. First of all, if you own either one, you are winning!! One of the few times you can hear a little difference between two synths. But ultimately I think the Sub 37 is more interesting for me as its features add some interesting options for sound creation, minus touchpad on Voyager that is awesome. It has a sound that is sorta recognizable due to the drive features mixed with the filter, which is saying a lot for a Moog synth. Beat frequency and drive/feedback options on the panel are wicked.
Re: 7:42-ish You can use either LFO to modulate OSC 1 wave, and this also modulates the SUB as well - so you *can* do all 3 oscillators. Model D vs Sub, tough call - depends what you want it to do - Voyager vs Sub, Sub wins.
+Mark John Towse Thanks for the comment... at that point I was talking about modulating the waveshape, which is fixed on the Sub; so it can’t emulate the sound I’m demoing on the voyager, which is modulating all 3 oscillator waveforms. You’re right in that the pitch on the Sub can be modulated by modulating Osc1, which it follows perfectly.
I think they’re both great synths - couldn’t pick a winner personally - so kept them both :)
was going for the Sub 37 then went for the Roland System 8 for the Jupiter Juno Sh101 inside. my next two synths will be the Sub 37 and Korg Odyssey
..and that my friend, will be an excellent setup :)
I just went for the Korg ARP Odyssey and the Moog Sub37. I just can't go with the analogue action or whatever Roland call their recreation software. I prefer to have the real thing somewhere in the system even if it's not fully analogue. Hopefully I will have the 16 voice Korg Prologue in a couple of weeks time and I can keep it all on an analogue vibe.
+starsky carr have your thought about selling on your Sub 37 patches?
Great demo! My store just bought in a Voyager and we have a Sub 37 in stock. After watching this, I’m siding with the Sub 37. And how in the world did you get that perfect Moroder sound when you said “classic sound”. I can not get my Sequential Take5 to do that. Lol
Hi, your Sub 37 patches are great, are they available for download somewhere?
They’re both nice. I think I prefer the Sub as well. It just has this woody wooly sound to it that the Voyager can’t touch. It sounds warm and thick, very smudgy. I like it. Sure it’s not as bright as the voyager, but I like the darker tone. The voyager sounds great but I feel like it’s chasing the Model D vibes and the Sub gets to be its own instrument.
Interesting... I love all 3 so kept them all :)
Agreed. If I were Starsky, I’d keep the Model D, flip the other 2, and buy a Subsequent.
You have some of the best Moog videos around. I love the Minimoog D and Voyager but they are 3-4k more than the Sub 37 and I wanted the grittier sharper sound of the Sub 37. BUT if I had the extra 3k to spend, the Minimoog would be a definite want.
Thanks, the Mini was a definite treat. I also bought the Sub 37 for the grittier nature of the sound - I think this video really shows how different 2 synths can sound, simply by adding a second oscillator to a patch.
Nice! Yeah my budget only allowed me to buy the Sub 37 since I needed the cash for other things like software and I ended up getting the Komplete Kontrol S49 keyboard with Komplete 11 Ultimate which is awesome for the massive library of sounds and kit plugins for Ableton and Cubase.
great video. thank you.
It seems the Voyager is so much more robust, as if you can reach out and touch the sound, if that makes any sense. As great as the Sub 37 is, it either sounds thin and brittle or like it's under a blanket most of the time, but over all it's flat and one-dimensional.
Well said. I own both, and find the Voyager friendlier too.
6:07 Dubstep Wobble
Voyager for me ;) the Sub 37 is cool and different like both but will choose Voyager.. but i like the warmth of the Voyager .. also the Voyager is the REAL!!! Bob Moog design. Sub 37 he had no physical input on :) btw.. you are the bomb!!!. how can i get that sound on the Voyager around 7:02?
Thanks, nice to be appreciated :). As far as I recall that sound on the S37 is simply oscillator 2 detuned by +4 semitones, modulating only one of the waveforms with LFO 1 - basically a bit of PWM on a single osc. I also bring the sub in. On the Voyager you can't modulate the oscillators separately so the PWM is on all 3. Osc 2 +4 semitones, oscillator 3 -12 (I think!).
Great work!
Love your programming skills man
Check out what Stephen Stephan Bodzin can do with the sub 37. He sold it for me the guy is out of this world if you can do a demo on how he gets his sounds please do a video. As I love it
I know this will likely get me stalked and beaten but I've played with both and...I prefer the subby. Moog can't make a bad instrument but I just love the balls of the 37. So I bought it. It's a lot like the Roland jd-xa in its raw raspy gutsy sound.
You make the best comparisons on RUclips. Thank you.
Now trick question.
If you could only have One synth.
Which would it be?
There’s no such thing as only one synth :)
Starsky Carr
Starsky don’t do this to Us!!
We need to know what’s the ONE synth you would have.
What is your Desert Island synth?!! Lol
When I've started with synthesisers long times ago (in 1978 with a Korg MS10) I thought that mono-synths are more or less the "poor man´s" entry to synthesisers.
In the meanwhile (older and wiser ... 😉) I appreciate my Moog mono-synths (Subsequent 37 and Grandmother) as wonderful and powerful instruments. Ok, a poly-synth is great but the power and the sonic versatility of a (e.g.) Subsequent 37 is always breathtaking.
The voyager may sound a tad better....but at half the price and if you add a nice effects chain the Sub 37 is king.
Used to own a Voyager rack and looooved the filter. Do you happen to know if the Moogerfooger filter is based on the Voyager filter?
Its a Moog ladder filter with 12 and 24 dB options. It’s not based on the voyager filter which has 2 modes HP/LP and dual LP plus 1 - 4 pole modes (ie 6, 12, 18 or 24 dB slopes). It doesn’t have spacing to change the gap between the HP and LP or the dual outputs for stereo fx. It does, however, have the same 12kHz max cutoff, so I imagine it’s more of a cut down version of the voyager.
You have the sub 37 oscillators set to maximum volume which means they are overdriven. Default is meant to be 12o'clock I believe. Maybe you can get the two synths sounding more similar by pulling the volume of the oscillators back on the sub 37?
I've tested this, and might upload a video to show there's very little or no distortion in the wave shapes when taken over 5. Using an oscilloscope the shape of the waves remains constant, only the amplitude changes (i.e. the volume). It's weird I know...
Hmm... yeah that is wierd as it contradicts the manual. Or maybe the oscillators only overdrive the filter when combined? Did you test them combined?
Yes, I think I'll have to upload a video at some point showing the oscilloscope outputs. I edited it out of the comparison as it was getting far too geeky! I was certain they sounded 'fizzier' and even mentioned it in my Pro6 vs S37 video. I originally intended to show that they distorted in this by turning past 12 o'clock, but the results contradicted what I thought I new!! Looks like I'll just have to dig out the video clips :)
Currently looking at the Voyager and Subsequent 37. I really like the warm, smooth sound of the voyager however nowadays you have to buy one used. Any ideas for questions to ask sellers in regards to the voyager?
love the video. are you a 90's raver as I recognise the detune ;)
Isn't everyone a 90's raver at heart?
Kevin Roberts I was waiting for him to start playing the lead from . Bizzare Inc's - Plutonic. Love those dirty detuned angry sounds.
Not sure you know this but the Voyager has a very complex modulation section which goes way deeper than what you see on the front panel. Through the menu system. And probably way deeper the Sub 37 as well. (See Tim Shoebridge's video on Voyager modulation) Midi CC's can be used to modulate anything in fact. They could be drawn within the DAW in sync with its grid so it is possible to get a type of synced LFO going on. Voyager is the older Moog sound and I prefer it by far. They have deviated away from the traditional old school Moog sound with the Sub37. If you are into Tangerine Dream like music Voyager is the only option. I have Voyager and love it. It has that super deep creamy sound especially with leads that the newer ones don't.
Yeah good point. They’ve both got much more modulation potential than is obvious from the front panel. The voyager goes much deeper than it looksZ
Question: how many synths you got, OMG must be alot 👍🏿
Have you noticed that if you select a different slope on the sub 37, the filter will open up just a little more?
Sub 37 seems to be a bit more metallic, and darker overall. Just got myself a Voyager, and I have my eyes set on either a Sub 25 or a 37. Leaning toward 37.
VOYAGER all day everyday.... I have a voyager as well but in this comparison i fell the sub 37 is a little to dark for me (it does sound fat thoe)... i've always loved brighter sounds rather than darker ones.... but the sub 37 is more modern and has more features... its totally understandable why people would choose the sub 37 over the voyager especially for the price range..... Remember thoe the two moog's have about a ten year difference when it comes to age... the fact that the Voyager can still compete after 10 years.....should tell you something..... shit is dope.....🔥
i believe the Sub 37 is the best deal for a Moog synth. i enjoy mine a lot and it makes me want another Moog (Mother-32).
Starsky can i ask to make a video of some experimental patches with it? that'd be cool to see someone else's point of vue :)
I'm looking at how to make such a video - without it being random nonsense - push this, twist that and hope for the best!
nice to see such an indepth review, it does seem you haven't noticed that the tone of the sub37 oscs changes considerably when you back down the individual volumes, Levels around 9 o clock give a totally different vibe from eg 12 or 3 o'clock. I see you have them overdriven on max for pretty much the whole demonstration. Combining very low osc levels with a bit of multidrive or feedback can give a lot more variation in tone. There were quite a few comparisons where you said you couldn't match the sound, but i'm sure it is possible... both lovely pieces of kit, though!
Thanks for the comments. It's really interesting what you say about the sound of the oscillators over 9 o'clock. I actually tested this but thought it was far too geeky to upload - so congratulations (I think) for being as geeky as me ;)
I ran the oscillators through the frequency analyser and turned them up gradually from 12 o'clock to full. I was surprised that the plot didn't change - there were no new harmonics introduced, or no change in volume relative to the existing peaks - they simply just increased in volume. . I also looked on a scope and the waveforms didn't change, so its possible that something else is happening, or I'm not interpreting the results correctly.
It may just be that as the volume increases our ears are more sensitive to different frequencies. As I said, this surprised me. Maybe I'll upload the footage (I edited it out).
Likely responsible for the differences in tone is this, from the Sub 37 manual: "Settings higher than 5 push the level beyond unity, imparting gentle filter distortion."
Yes, that's what I was looking for on the plots, but couldn't see any signs of distortion. Maybe it's so gentle my freebie scopes don't have the resolution to pick it up. Worth a further look one day.
Both are awesome, but the Voyager is too damned heavy to gig with! The Sub is great to take out live. Also - the arpeggiator/sequencer. Also - there is a kind of intense grit on the Sub via the feedback and the multidrive you can't quite get on the Voyager. So i had to get both.
+Anton Sword haha me too!!
Anton Swor
is it me or does the voyager sound way better?
voyager sounds more warm just like my moog grandmother
what editor are you using for the voyager??
Its the sound tower one that's recommended by Moog.
@@StarskyCarr thank you. so is it the standalone version or the plugin ? what would you recommend?
@@snoopyoverthehills I've got both, but only use the standalone. I find using it in a DAW session a bit of a pain tbh... but I guess its good for total recall. If you want to tweak in the DAW I just use automation lanes.
softer character because of less internal distortion in the oscillators of sub37
The keyboard quality is better with the voyager though. Anyway the choice is clear between the 2 especially since the voyager is no longer available for purchase unless you want to pay big bugs on ebay.
i'm sitting here with the massive x, zebra, voyager iOS, and monark. i've got the saws beating at a fifth tuning and an identical filter freak setting on each channel. i can tell you that out of those, i'll take massive x every day of the week and twice on sunday; but i cannot make anything like this first patch that you've made with either of these two analog critters. I got a way different result from the voyager iOS, but..... it's 3 OSC, all sawtooth, 8va and a fifth..... and a filter with no rez or overdrive? any thing else about this patch you've made? do i just get a richer result with the hardware?
Any chance to do a Voyaguer Vs Matrixbrute? I own the brute and I had the Voyager years ago, I’m tempted to trade it but It would be great to have your input and level of comparison on those top Mono’s Thanks
I’ve not got a matrixbrute. But does it have similar BCos and filters to the PolyBrute?
i listened to the comparison between the vintage model D and the sub 37 and the voyager.. moog should go back to the analog model D. So much more headroom on the D and the tones are less shrill sounding. They've gotten close..but modeling just isnt the same as old fashioned analog parts.
isn't Sub analog??
Starsky, I love your videos!
One thing on the Voyagers inability to do dual LFO rhythmic patches is incorrect, with add on modules or using Voyager XL as I have. The XL has a patchable second LFO which allows that and more.
I also have the Sub37 as well & my favorite feature apart from inbuilt sequencer as well as appegiator, is the loopable envelopes! 😃
They certainly can both cover similar & very different sonic ground 😊
That makes the Sub37 a keeper for me, although a tough decision between the sub37 & MDB Dominion 1. Problem is, I’ve now played with new Model D. I can’t bring myself to part with Voyager XL or sub37, although Sub37 may make a temporary departure to buy Model D & buy another Sub37 or Dominion 1 later... opinions very welcome on this decision.
I think one of the key differences & correct me if Im wrong, the Model D is 100% discrete circuitry, has a 35k filter, whereas the Sub37 20 k and Voyager 12 k. Now if they had put discrete circuitry & 35k filter in the Voyager XL!!
I'm about to lose sleep for a week or two... purchased the Minimoog Model D reissue. Bank account looks rather unhealthy for it, but you only have one life and might as well enjoy it :)
Cant wait to get recording it into some tracks!
Pretty impressed with Behringer Model D too. Looking forward to seeing what else Behringer brings out in the discrete analog synth circuitry classic copies. I'll be keen on grabbing any that add nicely to my mixes. Exciting times we live in! So many colours of sonic paint to choose from!
Sub 37 sounds quite good..too bad it's obviously not possible to fully open the filter at a price of 2k usd..you have to put 2k usd on top to get biting harmonics (model d)..sad
do you know if you can transfer the same pach between both machines?
+klkdc no it's not possible - they have completely different architecture
Shiiiiit....... I prefer so much the Voyager sound..........😩 And I feel a huge frustration because it's too expensive for me......... So frustrating..........
Ive had 2 sub 37s and didn't really like them, so ive gone back to my 4th Voyager, absolutely love it
Coulda used osc 3 as a lfo for the two lfo sound.
Great video! Maybe the darker sound is where the sub 37 got it's name from. Both absolutely gorgeous! Ever since i got my sub 37 it has me craving for more Moog... It's like a gateway Moog.....bwuuhaaahahahaha ;)
So.... I shouldn't be so sad that the Voyager is no longer in production?
The sub 37 sounds a bit more like a tube synth.
ie, i would rather own/buy the sub 37
I would say that the Sub 37 sounds more "fizzy" than "gritty". That granular noise that you hear sounds tapered on the Sub 37; it's a bag of sand - the Voyager is a bag of rocks. Voyager also seems to have more harmonic presence than the 37 which sounds a bit muddy, like you are listening to something on the other side of a wall.
I prefer the Voyager, but don't really love either.
There's an OSC mod available for the Voyager. It makes the Voyager sound brighter and simply better. Check out Rudi Linhard, the german Moog specialist. He's changing some chips.
Dude you have bob moogs auto graph on your voyager… the voyager obviously wins
I didn't know keys on Sub are so noisy!!........... 21:19
Have both and MUCH prefer Voyager. Differences are not subtle.
not a huge fan of modern moog sound, but the sub37 sounds a lot better than the voyager. Never cared for the voyager at all.
Sub or Subsequent here? Sorry, have to ask.
sub 37 has an economic sound...
no doubt about it, for me, unexspectly ,the sub 37 sounds much more fatter/deeper/more powerfull then the voyager and any one who cant hear this diferance and disagrees with need there ears sorting.
agree, i own a voyager and im gonna sell it for a sub37
@@solconnection2 cheers, glad you aggree freind.