Magene has responded to the video really quickly and issued a statement: "The problems addressed in his video regarding the power and cadence display has been really helpful for us to improve. These problems have now been nicely resolved and the products sent to backer will bear no problems! Regarding the issues with pedal angle, we’ve been working on it in production and designed tools inspecting possible problems to ensure the best experience for backers." Seems like they are tracking the review and fixing the issues very seriously. +1
Responsiveness to problems is great, but if something as basic as threading the pedal straight can't be achieved, makes you REALLY think twice about where else they cut corners 🤔
Yeah this does sound good, although what were they supposed to do. If they hadn't responded people would've jumped ship. My greater issue is actually the fact that you're not getting any form of warranty on kickstarter or am I wrong here
I have to say kudos Shane for the integrity this channel has. Regardless of the brand or faults you always tell it like it is. Also the detail of the reviews is really helpful too 👍
I wonder if this backfires for magene as this is a promotional unit. I don't know how I feel about the fact that no one else mentions these points. Thanks for your effort :)
Shane, this is one fine piece of journalism right here! I hope you are gonna win the Pulizter prize for this thorough and robust investigtive report... I enjoyed this video, as usual!
thanks for this very informative and comprehensive review ! would never buy a power meter without proper trusted reviews from non biased reviewers like you !
very professional review as usual, actually I'm surprised by the problems in sprint reliability, this is not the first rodeo for Magene in powermeters, and for the same reason I don't expect they to need too much time to fix it. Actually I'm not surprised about the crankset issue.. I mean, this is really the first time for them, but not something that need rocket science to deal with. Said this they put it under Kickstarter (Magene, why?? sounds really like free advertising to me), so everyone should take in account this may lead to nothing... Compared to other crowdfunding projects (I'm not gonna say that name) this one looks more solid, but crowdfunding is what it is, and everyone have to be aware about it. If this product will become something working, then it could be a real deal for cheap bikes and training bikes, while I don't expect someone to use on their own race beast, worth 10K€ or more.
That‘s what I have missed, that swift razor sharp dismantling of that world class product! Nothing wrong to have very ambitious goals for a producer. Having problems and glitches are part of the process to achieve those goals, right!? Weak spots have been discovered, fix those and test again and when it has passed the famous Lama Lab test, take my money!!!!!😁
That issues in sprints and high power efforts looks like the excess of flexion is having an spring effects in the measurement, the low measure follow it by the spike is like the spring storing energy and then releasing it. To that, added the effect of the imbalance that could cause the inclination of the pedal with respect to the left arm.
So - I need a crankset anyway and currently a lot of them are out of stock or the price are being driven up. From my perspective I am really tempted A) it is not much more expensive than a ultegra crank B) the data seems to be decent, just need a bit of a tweak C) Pedal misalignment should be straight forward to fix as it is a machine issue. Just not 100% about the flexi crank...
Just rode mine then and couldnt feel any weird pedal offset in either side. Cranks felt as still as my 9100 and 9000. Not 6650 stiff but as good as anything else Ive used.
Thanks for the indepth review. I've decided to give it a shot since they seem to be trying to improve the problems you mentioned. They also seem to have proper production line unlike some other powermeter crowd funding disasters we have seen recently. As long they fix cadence issue and tapping issue I'll be happy. Fingers crossed🤣🤣 Hope they can keep their delivery promises 🙏
@@adamlafortune9552 I've been using for little over a year and it's working pretty well. Charging can be little tricky with magnet positions but not the biggest issue. However, with the price increase nowadays it might be better to consider other options. They cost around €450-500 nowadays and don't really offer much of a value. I got them for €250 during kickstarter but I don't think I'll get it for full price. But every parts are getting more expensive nowadays :-(
Sure its only a couple hundred, but you have to include the cost of a set of Asiaomo pedals in the total cost of ownership so you have a reference power number to compare to.
There's still a ton of backers. When they start getting their meters and riding with them we'll get a better picture of how these things perform. At which point, all going well, we can all jump in and get cheap power dual-sided meters.
I am in the market for a power meter, being a Senior Olympic competitor (sort of :-) ). Thanks for your review. Being a novice in this field, I actually felt the Magene turned out to be better than I would have thought. If your compare based on price, it is actually pretty good. I do not do ANY out-of-the-saddle riding, so this may be good for someone like me who rides about 4000 miles a year, and my races are on relatively flat terrain.
According to the Magene website on March 1st, 2021 they have power meters installed on Shimano Ultegra cranksets; that should address the flexy crank arm issue. I wonder if they've also solved the cadence problems.
Nice video, for me message is clear... this product has good potential but needs some issues addressed. The risk profile is higher in part due the nature of a kickstarter approach, however the cost is lower so consumers will all have their approach to this risk/reward balance. Great to see the quick response of the manufacturer, however I hope they are able to send a commercial product through for a review update soon. Specifically the skew on pedal and cadence sensor issue should be demonstrated to be resolved. Super informative review as always! Great job Shane.
Is it only the non-drive side arm that is flexing so much? If so, hopefully something that can be improved before they start shipping. My P1 pedals that I bought used are still going strong. But if Magene (and others) can get decent powermeters out there for such low prices, it bodes well for when I eventually do need to replace mine. Side note: supposedly the Limits powermeter would have begun "full final assembly production runs" on 2nd Nov. Only 4.5 years since the start.
@@gplama You tried them 3 different frames, didnt You? It could be a modifier also if yes (ok , if all bikes are Giants, then not a significant one). My Rotor 3D+ (30mm) cranks in ITA threaded frame (Pinarello F8, Toray T1100 carbon...) are flexing within 1mm maximum (a slightly better than the ALDHU24 in your video). But this flexing can come from the weakness of the frame at bottom bracket area and not only from the cranks, so for real flexing test You should put it into swivel vice and measure the flexing in that.
I have to say I think designing the crankset and the power meter together is the right way to do a crankarm-based power meter, strange that nobody seems to have gone that route before. Of course, thy still need to get it right, but that's another issue.
Just got a notification from AliExpress offering me exactly the same Magene P325 CS Dual-Side Power Meter...for the price of just bought 4iii Ultegra left crank arm onlty. I was bit of a surprise. Started googling, and thank for your excellent analysis... The thing with lef pedal...and the flex of the arm. I can imagine who it's annoying. And it's interesting if they solved it or..?
I haven't had a second unit to test. Magene have recently switched to/launched a new crankset called "QED" with the SRAM DUB spindle standard. I'm trying to get a hold of those to test.
@@gplama thanks a lot for your reply. Such a strange way, if they discided not to fix/upgrage the current Hollowtech 24 mm spinde, but create a DUB one. I suppose the majority have Shimano drive train, as 105 e.g. where you don't need to change your BB and so on, but just to install.
Thanks for the great review. As a backer, I certainly hope they fix the pedal offset and crankarm flex. Cadence data likely possible to fix with a firmware upgrade in the future though.
@@fastestmilkman3840 the product we gave to Shane Miller was an engineering sample and we already have been working on these issues, and keep updated on our Facebook page, we will update the test video and results on our FB page.
Being a heavier rider there are two things I really hate. Rear wheel flex which is easily solved with a good pair of rims and 32 spokes. And crank or spindle flex. I still use square taper bottom brackets to solve part of that issue on some of my bikes.
I bought a power meter Magene P325 in July 2021. It came with a battery problem, I got a direct warranty from Magene 2 months later. Worked fine for 14 months of use, had the same battery issue. I contacted support more than 10 days ago with no response. When it worked, it had good information. Currently I don't think it's a really good choice.
@@gplama OK. I follow and admire your channel. I made this comment just to pass on an experience I had with the sensor. I followed 3 other cases in Brazil with the same sensor problem and no response from Magene.
Let's see how they go once released. If they do resolve the issues I had, and still come in a lot lower in price than everyone else.... it might be time to punish that credit card! :)
Think your correct it has promis. Let's hope they can solve the issues before shipping. I think its honest of them to supply you with a test set for your honest review. Here's hoping
Small but picky thing Shane; did you tell them their cranks are stickered the wrong way? Chainset side always faces forward for photographs. That would put their logo upside down.
Nice review. Thanks this is useful as I'm considering getting a cheap spider based power meter from a well known Chinese website as my first foray into power meters. Maybe I should keep my expectations low.
Dear Shane, great video (again). Many Thanks. - Regarding the Magene P325, I would still have a questions: Did you try the Lite or the Full version? The Full version enables software functions for Torque Effectiveness, Pedal Balance, Pedal Smoothness, but it costs about 150 USD more, so I am wondering if I need those functions?
@@gplama thanks for the fast reaction... Still I am wondering if you have ever heard from other power meters about functions like: Torque Effectiveness, Pedal Balance or Pedal Smoothness... , and if so if you think those are important features? I am learning many details from your clips and think you are one of the best experts to ask such questions. Many Thanks for y short reply.
@@thomasmuller3089 Other power meters have similar metrics, as well as ANT+ Cycling Dynamics which gives other detail too. As for the usefulness of these metrics, this is still undetermined. What is 'optimal' for one rider might not be the same for another. Most training software doesn't take advantage of these additional metrics either, so not a lot of riders even know these metrics exist.
I have this PowerMeter unfortunately leftcrankarm has cracked already near the bolt. Still with warranty but magene aftersales insisted to send them the product for repair. But im requesting them to just send a new leftcrankarm with the ant + id so pairing will work properly. They still insist to send the leftarm and rightarm without the chainring. 😔
The main problem, cadence inaccuracy, seems fixable. I wonder what kind of technology they use (accelerometer, gyroscopic sensor?). I'd say it looks very promising.
@@michwoz Very interesting I was thinking I was the only person to think of it. Although I should have known these days that's never the case. If you want cheap it does save on an extra sensor.
Shane, what about Balance, Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness or it doesn't meter until power and cadence issues would be resolved? Interesting since they are also claimed it. Thank you for your great work.
@@gplama It still seems to weird that cranks are so wonky. Shimano has hollowtech technology so cranks a basically "empty" inside and according to Magene they just have three hollows so construction should be pretty solid. Maybe the spindle itself is not strong enough as Shimano has.
The DS sensor pod would get in the way of every power meter spider I can think of. It might clear a regular “Quarq Prime” spider or a Stone spider though.
I hate wonky cranks / pedals :( - also use no-float cleats myself as they work best for me. That side flex looks pretty... flexy. The claimed price is pretty good though, so I do hope they fix or improve these issues and make a decent + affordable power meter. I think the cadence spikes could be fixed in software (spikes could even be a software / FW issue in the first place?).
Cadence should be a software/firmware fix... I'd think. If the sprints are caused by the flexy-sexy then it'll be harder for them to compensate for that. The steady state numbers were really impressive. I had to be REALLY careful with my wording for two reasons on this one.... misquotes used as promotion... and anyone trying to hang me for them investing (as has happened with another Kickstarter meter I never told anyone to buy).
@@gplama "you recommended me this power meter and I never got it, give me my money back!!?!?!?!?". Back in the day (when I still had Di2 in the site name) I used to get emails every month saying things like "Hey Shimano, your product is SHT, I paid $30000 and help me". I understood why people were confused in my case, but complaining to you about Kickstarter projects seems... silly.. But this *is* the internet we're talking about ;-)
@@hankschrader2353 I didn't spend too much time digging further into the drops. Only the ones that were obvious in this video. Without access to any lower level data/code/operation I can't do much more than observe the output.
@@gplama not IQ2 by chance? Wish I had done a little more homework before becoming like 10,000 in queue for a dual set. Still no deliveries, well maybe a couple but wow....lol Got some second hand Almost new (90%) Garmin Vector 3 in the meantime for the same money and are well worth it. When IQ2 finally get them made....I will have a pair on the track bike and not have to swap pedals! :-) Happy days.
Hello Shane. Is it possible that Magene will sent you another "updated" unit before December release? According to their updates on Kickstarter they resolve left crank flex and also provide warranty conditions for chainrings\power meter.
My bike runs a fsa gossamer bb386Evo crankset.... will they make a version compatible with that bb standard (whatever bb std that is...) BB standards and crank compatibility is so so confusing
Curiosity about the flexibility issue.. What about the flexibility on the drive side? Do you feel the flexibility to be in the crank arm, or maybe in the connection with the axle?
@@gplama thanks a lot for your answer, well at least they know where the issue is...as per messages on Kickstarter they already managing this issue and a video will be published soon.... we have to just sit on the river bank and wait
Any updates on flex & alignment issues ? Great potential and seems like fixes could be made with some alloy modifications Or forgoing the hollow channels all together. Perhaps 2 birds with one stone for power accuracy as well. In any case great review. Had it in the cart and tempted to purchase for value
Magene also confirmed at Kickstater that: auto zero and temp compensation are present in the unit: "Hi Xab and Rémi, It has both temperature compensation and auto 0 offset. Hope it helps! Magene Team" Interesting to see if auto 0 do not screw up power reading in the middle of the ride.
Really good review, but think I’ll wait and see if the problems get ironed out in future iterations of the product. I just read their marketing spiel on the Kickstarter site and it looks like it’s been written by a five year old - if anything was going to put a spontaneous investor off, there it is! It’s quite funny.
It's a nice looking crankset. I notice from various Ali express searches that all the cranksets from China seem to be 24mm spindles, where is the love for 30mm spindles! Specifically PF30!
Magene offer a single sided version of this, does that have Ant+/Bluetooth too? I'm thinking along the lines of live power display on a Garmin head unit for training to power, which I'm sure the 2-sided meter option is capable of?
@@gplama Hi Shane Can you confirm the single sided version hast the sensors on the left crank? I know it seems logical but from what Magene has published i can't find info on it
Hi Shane, can I ask if you used Bluetooth or ant+? I'd love to know if you had cadence over Bluetooth? I've found it to be an issue on my p32 and have read others having the issue with the t300 trainer. No cadence over Bluetooth but ok with ant+. Such a basic thing that I don't suppose you even looked at it.
All data was recorded with ANT+. IIRC you won't get pedal smoothness or torque effectiveness over Bluetooth... but power and cadence are basics which should be there. My Zwift is playing up over BLE and won't show any cadence sensors from power meters at this point in time.
Question on the Assiomas: My duos consistently read 20-30 watts lower than pretty much every other PM I've tested against them - Zumo, Drivo I, Core, & anecdotally just riding along with my teammate who's smaller & lighter than me - he consistently has to put out 20-30 watts more than I at the same speed when directly beside me. These readings are extremely consistent, and not really an issue as I can just mentally adjust my indoor FTP to be 30 watts higher than my outdoor FTP. However, I was interested to hear if you've heard from anyone else about this? Being the gold standard I'd imagine the Assiomas would be the accurate #, but considering the number of PM I've tested against it & consistently get the same result, I'm starting to wonder if they are the ones reading low. Doesn't really matter, because they're consistent one way or the other but it'd be nice to be able to inflate the Assioma # to match that of the other PMs. :)
@@kidsafe Yep, but to throw a monkey wrench I dual recorded yesterday & it's spot on (within a watt) of the Core without doing anything. Soooo not sure anymore lol
Curious how Magene couldn’t measure their own product ; it’s not like DC Rainmaker’s tool isn’t available to all of us, and plenty of examples on how to use it. I mean I don’t have the patience to test with the rigor or expertise you did, but these guys do this as a business.
Hi Shane, I sorted out the comments sections as per the latest date to see if Magene might have contacted you and resolve the issues. As of August 2021, has that been the case?
How all these power meters claim accuracy is BS, plus or minus is called the uncertainty of measurement, which means there ability of their lab to measure watts compared to international standards. NOT THE ACCURACY! It also should state at which sigma point, normally 3 sigma, which they don't. So they really don't claim any accuracy at all. Also the variance from the true error could vary across the measuring range, being the worst at the lower end. It is disappointing that not one manufacturer gives even one point of error at a range point. We all should put more pressure on these to give proper information on these and the errors accross the range.
It's hard to tell. I don't have any visibility to know exactly what's occurring. I'd have to keep throwing tests at it and observing. I'll have a guess that the cadence issues should be shorted by better firmware..... If the crank flex/torque angles are problematic for the gauges then that might need a hardware change. *All speculation though.
i wanna be a party pooper but credit where credit is due this company atleast actually have a working PM they put on K.S. compared to other company wich i shal not name. this might not be perfect or "far" from, but its a good cheapish solution for those who do for example grand fondo's and festive ride to be able to pace themselfs with power. in the end i seriously hope they succeed . and fix them issues shane mentiond. its for the best of us end users in general. GL to magene in this journey and every1 who backs them
You have a point... but I'd argue the definition of "working". Remembering IQ^2 did deliver a sample unit to me (just as Magene have here) that did work as expected.
@@gplama oh wow realy i can only remember the 1 they send out the shells without any actual working chips in it while the Ks was being active. gues i missed that 1 then.
Great review as always. As cyclists we need Magene (or the likes) to succeed or otherwise power meters are going to remain toys for the wealthy for the foreseeable future. On the positive side I didn’t feel there was anything in the review that was unfixable but equally we’ve seen some big players keep tweaking and tweaking products and never quite deliver the promise. I’d maybe invest in a $10 widget on Kickstarter but I’ll wait and see how the shipped product stacks up before parting with substantially more cash than that
There prices seem pretty close to 4iiii. There current kick starter prices tho seem pretty low. But thats with the risk of what kick starter entails we will have to see what msrp ends up being
Replicating existing technologies and delivering them at a lower price shouldn’t necessarily result in inferior products. Crank stiffness aside, I am surprised they released this with obvious engineering and tech problems for this or any independent review.
Until I see trustworthy data that all the issues with this meter have been resolved, I'd keep well clear of it... even if they were giving it away for free.
Great video as always Shane! I have a question: if I use the single sided pm, am I forced to use their crankset or can I mount only the left crank arm (like Stages)?
@@gplama thanks for the reply, unfortunately I imagined it. Maybe some kind of adapter will make it work, but I will try to contact the manufacturer to know if it's possible
do you make an allowance for teething problems with new launch products? Or (as I suspect) do you expect 'perfection' with v1.0? I often feel like a pseudo beta tester - AKA a premium we pay for being early adopters. Def don't think the P325 is saleable as it is. Far from finished.
It's all very well these power meters reporting independent left/right power but what about separate left/right cadence? Until that feature is available I'm holding onto my hard earned money thank you very much!
I can't see any use case where separate L/R cadence would be useful.... not unless it was with a really high sample rate (with high speed power) and we could get insight into L/R pedal stroke differences around the whole 360.
![IQSquare Power Meter: Details & Data [Single Side Road Pedal]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aVe0FkcZ1s0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/1.gif)
Magene has responded to the video really quickly and issued a statement: "The problems addressed in his video regarding the power and cadence display has been really helpful for us to improve. These problems have now been nicely resolved and the products sent to backer will bear no problems!
Regarding the issues with pedal angle, we’ve been working on it in production and designed tools inspecting possible problems to ensure the best experience for backers."
Seems like they are tracking the review and fixing the issues very seriously. +1
Excellent. I'll keep an eye out for backer unit reviews in December.
@@gplama Cheers mate, great job on the review for the masses.
Surely though the r&d dept would have done bench tests prior to shipping record units.
Responsiveness to problems is great, but if something as basic as threading the pedal straight can't be achieved, makes you REALLY think twice about where else they cut corners 🤔
Yeah this does sound good, although what were they supposed to do. If they hadn't responded people would've jumped ship. My greater issue is actually the fact that you're not getting any form of warranty on kickstarter or am I wrong here
Their claims of world class seem to match my world class abilities
Harry, you win the Internet today. 🥇🤣
🤘😎👍🍺🍺🍺
I'm so glad to see the prices of power meters going down and becoming affordable for the average cyclist.
I have to say kudos Shane for the integrity this channel has. Regardless of the brand or faults you always tell it like it is. Also the detail of the reviews is really helpful too 👍
If it always reports high power on sprints, I can see this being popular with zwift racers
It's low in sprints but high out of the saddle... maybe because I tested... Down Under? #dadjoke
Thanks for taking one for the team on this one, its great to see cheaper options so we can feel better about buying the established models.
I wonder if this backfires for magene as this is a promotional unit.
I don't know how I feel about the fact that no one else mentions these points.
Thanks for your effort :)
These power meters out of China are really close to being brilliant. Really close. When one nails it the market will have to adjust.
@@gplama The Xcadey spider is for me the perfect powermeter atm
Shane, this is one fine piece of journalism right here!
I hope you are gonna win the Pulizter prize for this thorough and robust investigtive report...
I enjoyed this video, as usual!
It's always such a good day when there's an in-depth Lama analysis!
Ok you've sold it, I'll get the Assioma's.
thanks for this very informative and comprehensive review ! would never buy a power meter without proper trusted reviews from non biased reviewers like you !
very professional review as usual, actually I'm surprised by the problems in sprint reliability, this is not the first rodeo for Magene in powermeters, and for the same reason I don't expect they to need too much time to fix it. Actually I'm not surprised about the crankset issue.. I mean, this is really the first time for them, but not something that need rocket science to deal with. Said this they put it under Kickstarter (Magene, why?? sounds really like free advertising to me), so everyone should take in account this may lead to nothing... Compared to other crowdfunding projects (I'm not gonna say that name) this one looks more solid, but crowdfunding is what it is, and everyone have to be aware about it. If this product will become something working, then it could be a real deal for cheap bikes and training bikes, while I don't expect someone to use on their own race beast, worth 10K€ or more.
That‘s what I have missed, that swift razor sharp dismantling of that world class product! Nothing wrong to have very ambitious goals for a producer. Having problems and glitches are part of the process to achieve those goals, right!? Weak spots have been discovered, fix those and test again and when it has passed the famous Lama Lab test, take my money!!!!!😁
That issues in sprints and high power efforts looks like the excess of flexion is having an spring effects in the measurement, the low measure follow it by the spike is like the spring storing energy and then releasing it. To that, added the effect of the imbalance that could cause the inclination of the pedal with respect to the left arm.
Crystal clear report on this power meter. Top work Shane. Subscribed.
So - I need a crankset anyway and currently a lot of them are out of stock or the price are being driven up. From my perspective I am really tempted A) it is not much more expensive than a ultegra crank B) the data seems to be decent, just need a bit of a tweak C) Pedal misalignment should be straight forward to fix as it is a machine issue. Just not 100% about the flexi crank...
Just rode mine then and couldnt feel any weird pedal offset in either side.
Cranks felt as still as my 9100 and 9000. Not 6650 stiff but as good as anything else Ive used.
Well done review, sir. Thorough. I’ll wait until the problems are fixed and durability/reliability are measured before considering a purchase.
Did you purchase it?
@@adamlafortune9552 I purchased the Assioma Duo power meter. Half the price of most PM’s and outstanding performance and reliability.
Thanks for the indepth review. I've decided to give it a shot since they seem to be trying to improve the problems you mentioned. They also seem to have proper production line unlike some other powermeter crowd funding disasters we have seen recently. As long they fix cadence issue and tapping issue I'll be happy. Fingers crossed🤣🤣 Hope they can keep their delivery promises 🙏
How did it go? any update?
@@adamlafortune9552 I've been using for little over a year and it's working pretty well. Charging can be little tricky with magnet positions but not the biggest issue. However, with the price increase nowadays it might be better to consider other options. They cost around €450-500 nowadays and don't really offer much of a value. I got them for €250 during kickstarter but I don't think I'll get it for full price. But every parts are getting more expensive nowadays :-(
Sure its only a couple hundred, but you have to include the cost of a set of Asiaomo pedals in the total cost of ownership so you have a reference power number to compare to.
Glad you did this - was about to put my hard earned towards one!
There's still a ton of backers. When they start getting their meters and riding with them we'll get a better picture of how these things perform. At which point, all going well, we can all jump in and get cheap power dual-sided meters.
Thanks for this great review. I hope Magene will address the feedback you provided.
I am in the market for a power meter, being a Senior Olympic competitor (sort of :-) ). Thanks for your review. Being a novice in this field, I actually felt the Magene turned out to be better than I would have thought. If your compare based on price, it is actually pretty good. I do not do ANY out-of-the-saddle riding, so this may be good for someone like me who rides about 4000 miles a year, and my races are on relatively flat terrain.
Power meter on Kickstarter? Been there before. No more... :-(
Kickstarter in general tbh. Never again
iq²? They post on Insta they're NOW shipping some units to the backers. 2 years later?
Insane!
Thanks for going see down the rabbit hole on the pedal angle issue. Good to know.
According to the Magene website on March 1st, 2021 they have power meters installed on Shimano Ultegra cranksets; that should address the flexy crank arm issue. I wonder if they've also solved the cadence problems.
This is a different product. This meter is still a Kickstarter only product..... read the comments over there. It's not pretty.
Nice video, for me message is clear... this product has good potential but needs some issues addressed. The risk profile is higher in part due the nature of a kickstarter approach, however the cost is lower so consumers will all have their approach to this risk/reward balance.
Great to see the quick response of the manufacturer, however I hope they are able to send a commercial product through for a review update soon. Specifically the skew on pedal and cadence sensor issue should be demonstrated to be resolved.
Super informative review as always! Great job Shane.
Is it only the non-drive side arm that is flexing so much? If so, hopefully something that can be improved before they start shipping.
My P1 pedals that I bought used are still going strong. But if Magene (and others) can get decent powermeters out there for such low prices, it bodes well for when I eventually do need to replace mine.
Side note: supposedly the Limits powermeter would have begun "full final assembly production runs" on 2nd Nov. Only 4.5 years since the start.
The other side flexes too. The video was well over time to include that :)
@@gplama You tried them 3 different frames, didnt You? It could be a modifier also if yes (ok , if all bikes are Giants, then not a significant one). My Rotor 3D+ (30mm) cranks in ITA threaded frame (Pinarello F8, Toray T1100 carbon...) are flexing within 1mm maximum (a slightly better than the ALDHU24 in your video). But this flexing can come from the weakness of the frame at bottom bracket area and not only from the cranks, so for real flexing test You should put it into swivel vice and measure the flexing in that.
I have to say I think designing the crankset and the power meter together is the right way to do a crankarm-based power meter, strange that nobody seems to have gone that route before. Of course, thy still need to get it right, but that's another issue.
Just got a notification from AliExpress offering me exactly the same Magene P325 CS Dual-Side Power Meter...for the price of just bought 4iii Ultegra left crank arm onlty. I was bit of a surprise. Started googling, and thank for your excellent analysis...
The thing with lef pedal...and the flex of the arm. I can imagine who it's annoying.
And it's interesting if they solved it or..?
I haven't had a second unit to test. Magene have recently switched to/launched a new crankset called "QED" with the SRAM DUB spindle standard. I'm trying to get a hold of those to test.
@@gplama thanks a lot for your reply.
Such a strange way, if they discided not to fix/upgrage the current Hollowtech 24 mm spinde, but create a DUB one.
I suppose the majority have Shimano drive train, as 105 e.g. where you don't need to change your BB and so on, but just to install.
do you know if they solved all the major problem? pedal angle on the left side, too much flex and the reading of cadence and power during sprint?
I’ve not had any follow up on this product.
passed their goal funding over weekendhope they get version 2.0 to you asap
Thanks for the great review. As a backer, I certainly hope they fix the pedal offset and crankarm flex. Cadence data likely possible to fix with a firmware upgrade in the future though.
Thanks for your support to Magene, we are working on that and have added extra checking procedures to fix it.
@@MageneOfficial I am temped to back it, but the misalignment and data is easy to fix, however how are you going to address the flex on the crank??
@@fastestmilkman3840 the product we gave to Shane Miller was an engineering sample and we already have been working on these issues, and keep updated on our Facebook page, we will update the test video and results on our FB page.
Being a heavier rider there are two things I really hate. Rear wheel flex which is easily solved with a good pair of rims and 32 spokes. And crank or spindle flex. I still use square taper bottom brackets to solve part of that issue on some of my bikes.
Comprei um funcionou por apenas 5 dias, não é mais encontrado pelo garmin, é a luz do lado esquerdo não acende mais.... muito triste 😢
Hi
Did you check the Magene P505? Could you make a video about it if it is different then P325
The P505 is a spider power meter. It's a different design entirely.
@@gplama I wonder if it worth to buy? How accurate and how durable it is. There is no one video on youtube. Maybe in my region or in english.
Ohhhh guys I love you. You're simply toooooo much!
Another great Shane video. Thanks...
It seems that the lack of crank rigidity may affect the power data when pedaling off the saddle
Shane going full Alice in Wonderland specifically for our benefit. Deep down the 🐇 🕳
I bought a power meter Magene P325 in July 2021. It came with a battery problem, I got a direct warranty from Magene 2 months later.
Worked fine for 14 months of use, had the same battery issue.
I contacted support more than 10 days ago with no response.
When it worked, it had good information. Currently I don't think it's a really good choice.
I'm ok with people sharing their own experiences... But cutting and pasting it multiple times doesn't sit well with me. Once is fine.
@@gplama OK. I follow and admire your channel. I made this comment just to pass on an experience I had with the sensor. I followed 3 other cases in Brazil with the same sensor problem and no response from Magene.
When the charge port is on each crank, do I have to use two chargers, charge one crank then the other or is it a dual charger?
It comes with a dual charger. Both pods are independent.
Be curious on another review once the backers get their revised units. Will you be receiving another unit to test?
Thanks Llama, definitely helped me with my purchase decision. **** Slowly puts credit card back inside wallet****
Let's see how they go once released. If they do resolve the issues I had, and still come in a lot lower in price than everyone else.... it might be time to punish that credit card! :)
Think your correct it has promis. Let's hope they can solve the issues before shipping. I think its honest of them to supply you with a test set for your honest review. Here's hoping
Small but picky thing Shane; did you tell them their cranks are stickered the wrong way? Chainset side always faces forward for photographs. That would put their logo upside down.
Someone pointed that out over on their Kickstarter page.
Good thorough analysis 👌
Nice review. Thanks this is useful as I'm considering getting a cheap spider based power meter from a well known Chinese website as my first foray into power meters. Maybe I should keep my expectations low.
Dear Shane, great video (again). Many Thanks. - Regarding the Magene P325, I would still have a questions: Did you try the Lite or the Full version? The Full version enables software functions for Torque Effectiveness, Pedal Balance, Pedal Smoothness, but it costs about 150 USD more, so I am wondering if I need those functions?
I have no idea sorry.
@@gplama thanks for the fast reaction... Still I am wondering if you have ever heard from other power meters about functions like: Torque Effectiveness, Pedal Balance or Pedal Smoothness... , and if so if you think those are important features?
I am learning many details from your clips and think you are one of the best experts to ask such questions.
Many Thanks for y short reply.
@@thomasmuller3089 Other power meters have similar metrics, as well as ANT+ Cycling Dynamics which gives other detail too. As for the usefulness of these metrics, this is still undetermined. What is 'optimal' for one rider might not be the same for another. Most training software doesn't take advantage of these additional metrics either, so not a lot of riders even know these metrics exist.
I have this PowerMeter unfortunately leftcrankarm has cracked already near the bolt. Still with warranty but magene aftersales insisted to send them the product for repair. But im requesting them to just send a new leftcrankarm with the ant + id so pairing will work properly. They still insist to send the leftarm and rightarm without the chainring. 😔
The main problem, cadence inaccuracy, seems fixable. I wonder what kind of technology they use (accelerometer, gyroscopic sensor?). I'd say it looks very promising.
Or maybe no sensor like with my homemade power meters. Cadence is picked up from the strain gauges using code. Its surprising good but not 100%.
@@Ed.R Oh yeah, Infocrank does that as far as I know.
@@michwoz Very interesting I was thinking I was the only person to think of it. Although I should have known these days that's never the case.
If you want cheap it does save on an extra sensor.
Shane, what about Balance, Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness or it doesn't meter until power and cadence issues would be resolved?
Interesting since they are also claimed it.
Thank you for your great work.
Yep, all things to look into once the core functions are sorted. No use diving into them if what they're based on is a bit wonky.
@@gplama It still seems to weird that cranks are so wonky. Shimano has hollowtech technology so cranks a basically "empty" inside and according to Magene they just have three hollows so construction should be pretty solid.
Maybe the spindle itself is not strong enough as Shimano has.
If it’s a sram 8 bolt chainring mount could you theoretically put a P2Max power meter on the crank as well for dual recording
Would that make it a Power^2Max, a Power22Max, or maybe put the IQ^2 on there and.... no.... that's too much. 🤯
@@gplama crank based, spider based, pedal based and hub based. More watts recorded means more watts output right?
@@jacobcasey6154 Exactly. ;)
The DS sensor pod would get in the way of every power meter spider I can think of. It might clear a regular “Quarq Prime” spider or a Stone spider though.
thanks a ton for the detailed video ..
I hate wonky cranks / pedals :( - also use no-float cleats myself as they work best for me. That side flex looks pretty... flexy. The claimed price is pretty good though, so I do hope they fix or improve these issues and make a decent + affordable power meter. I think the cadence spikes could be fixed in software (spikes could even be a software / FW issue in the first place?).
Cadence should be a software/firmware fix... I'd think. If the sprints are caused by the flexy-sexy then it'll be harder for them to compensate for that. The steady state numbers were really impressive. I had to be REALLY careful with my wording for two reasons on this one.... misquotes used as promotion... and anyone trying to hang me for them investing (as has happened with another Kickstarter meter I never told anyone to buy).
@@gplama "you recommended me this power meter and I never got it, give me my money back!!?!?!?!?". Back in the day (when I still had Di2 in the site name) I used to get emails every month saying things like "Hey Shimano, your product is SHT, I paid $30000 and help me". I understood why people were confused in my case, but complaining to you about Kickstarter projects seems... silly.. But this *is* the internet we're talking about ;-)
@@gplama did you notice these cadence dropout/irregularities during every power differential or every other?
@@hankschrader2353 I didn't spend too much time digging further into the drops. Only the ones that were obvious in this video. Without access to any lower level data/code/operation I can't do much more than observe the output.
@@gplama not IQ2 by chance? Wish I had done a little more homework before becoming like 10,000 in queue for a dual set. Still no deliveries, well maybe a couple but wow....lol Got some second hand Almost new (90%) Garmin Vector 3 in the meantime for the same money and are well worth it. When IQ2 finally get them made....I will have a pair on the track bike and not have to swap pedals! :-) Happy days.
Thanks for your reviews do you have any plans to review the Magene p505 power meter?
It's on the cards. Not sure when.
Hello Shane. Is it possible that Magene will sent you another "updated" unit before December release?
According to their updates on Kickstarter they resolve left crank flex and also provide warranty conditions for chainrings\power meter.
Not sure. I haven’t had any communication from them after posting this video.
ohi ohi ohi crankset here...
and this is a really good a thorough review.
My bike runs a fsa gossamer bb386Evo crankset.... will they make a version compatible with that bb standard (whatever bb std that is...) BB standards and crank compatibility is so so confusing
Curiosity about the flexibility issue.. What about the flexibility on the drive side? Do you feel the flexibility to be in the crank arm, or maybe in the connection with the axle?
The two crank arms are symmetrical, so yes it flexes too. It’s the arm flexing.
@@gplama thanks a lot for your answer, well at least they know where the issue is...as per messages on Kickstarter they already managing this issue and a video will be published soon.... we have to just sit on the river bank and wait
Any updates on flex & alignment issues ?
Great potential and seems like fixes could be made with some alloy modifications Or forgoing the hollow channels all together. Perhaps 2 birds with one stone for power accuracy as well.
In any case great review. Had it in the cart and tempted to purchase for value
No contact from Magene after posting this video.
Think the issue with the sprints is related to the crank/Chainring flex?
That's one for Magene to answer and resolve.
Magene also confirmed at Kickstater that: auto zero and temp compensation are present in the unit:
"Hi Xab and Rémi,
It has both temperature compensation and auto 0 offset.
Hope it helps!
Magene Team"
Interesting to see if auto 0 do not screw up power reading in the middle of the ride.
great info. Thanks
If you had to pick between this Magene and the Xcadey Spider powermeter which one would you go for?
Magene.
Nice video, thanks :)
Hmm...how about the shifting quality? Thanks!
No problems with a Di2 setup:
Really good review, but think I’ll wait and see if the problems get ironed out in future iterations of the product.
I just read their marketing spiel on the Kickstarter site and it looks like it’s been written by a five year old - if anything was going to put a spontaneous investor off, there it is! It’s quite funny.
👌🏼🍻
It's a nice looking crankset. I notice from various Ali express searches that all the cranksets from China seem to be 24mm spindles, where is the love for 30mm spindles! Specifically PF30!
pf30 cranks are stupid expansive in China due to import tax
@@involuntarysoul3867 really, why is there such a large tax on them?
@@abedfo88 the tax applies to all imports, not just cycling, they do it to protect Chinese manufactures
Hey i noticed there is delay when the powermeter sends data to garmin 530 computer. It is not that instant like other power meters
One to take up with Garmin support. What power meter?
@@gplama magene p325 cs . i have assioma too assioma sends data to garmin instantly but p325 is little bit slower
Magene offer a single sided version of this, does that have Ant+/Bluetooth too? I'm thinking along the lines of live power display on a Garmin head unit for training to power, which I'm sure the 2-sided meter option is capable of?
It should have the same features, yes. Just Leftx2 for total power:
@@gplama Hi Shane
Can you confirm the single sided version hast the sensors on the left crank? I know it seems logical but from what Magene has published i can't find info on it
@@user-kw3js1xk3l No idea sorry. That's one for Magene.
Hey Shane. Any update on the performance issues?
Nothing. Magene haven’t been in contact after this video. 🤷🏻♂️
Would this fit my 2014 Cervelo S3 with bbright bottom bracket?
No idea.
Did they ever provide you with an updated unit with all the issues fixed?
No communication from them after this review. 🤷🏻♂️
@@gplama not too forthcoming on the firmware updates also.
Hi Shane.
Does this communicate with Garmin devices?
Yes. I'd highly recommend looking at an alternate power meter given the performance and quality shown here.
Hi Shane. Where can i find your sigeyi axo test With all details ?
Not online yet.... I have another firmware to test with that.
@@gplama which firmware have you tested?
@@antonioargentieri8755 They've rolled my very own firmware to test.... essentially an alpha/beta.
Hi Shane, can I ask if you used Bluetooth or ant+? I'd love to know if you had cadence over Bluetooth? I've found it to be an issue on my p32 and have read others having the issue with the t300 trainer. No cadence over Bluetooth but ok with ant+.
Such a basic thing that I don't suppose you even looked at it.
All data was recorded with ANT+. IIRC you won't get pedal smoothness or torque effectiveness over Bluetooth... but power and cadence are basics which should be there. My Zwift is playing up over BLE and won't show any cadence sensors from power meters at this point in time.
Question on the Assiomas: My duos consistently read 20-30 watts lower than pretty much every other PM I've tested against them - Zumo, Drivo I, Core, & anecdotally just riding along with my teammate who's smaller & lighter than me - he consistently has to put out 20-30 watts more than I at the same speed when directly beside me. These readings are extremely consistent, and not really an issue as I can just mentally adjust my indoor FTP to be 30 watts higher than my outdoor FTP.
However, I was interested to hear if you've heard from anyone else about this? Being the gold standard I'd imagine the Assiomas would be the accurate #, but considering the number of PM I've tested against it & consistently get the same result, I'm starting to wonder if they are the ones reading low. Doesn't really matter, because they're consistent one way or the other but it'd be nice to be able to inflate the Assioma # to match that of the other PMs. :)
Perform a static weight test on the Assioma pedals.
Is your crank length set correctly?
@@kidsafe Yep, but to throw a monkey wrench I dual recorded yesterday & it's spot on (within a watt) of the Core without doing anything. Soooo not sure anymore lol
Maybe 🤔 the Crank Arms are flexing cuZ they can’t handle the Massive Wattage you’re putting out GPLama. 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I don't have many watts in my fingers... and they made it wibble wobble like a noodle. :/
@@gplama not something you want when climbing a steep grade or any other type of ride
More flex in the crank means more voltage output from the strain gauges.
@@Ed.R That depends on the gauges / angles / etc.
Assioma are flawless, but I actually hope Magene sort out the issues, competition in any market is a GOOD thing for consumers
Curious how Magene couldn’t measure their own product ; it’s not like DC Rainmaker’s tool isn’t available to all of us, and plenty of examples on how to use it. I mean I don’t have the patience to test with the rigor or expertise you did, but these guys do this as a business.
Hi Shane, I sorted out the comments sections as per the latest date to see if Magene might have contacted you and resolve the issues. As of August 2021, has that been the case?
If all the issues were addressed, this will be one hell of a budget PM to be used with TT bikes (due to choices of shorter crankarms)
I’ve had no contact from Magene since I posted this review.
hmm.... I kinda disappointed with IQ-Square (2+ years still not yet to market) ....
might consider getting this....
Dude.... if you’re chasing pain, sure.
Cheap stuff is good because cycling is wickedly expensive but at the same time I stick with shimano for peace of mind regarding quality
What app do you use to measure the slope/angle ?
The built-in app on the iPhone XS.
How all these power meters claim accuracy is BS, plus or minus is called the uncertainty of measurement, which means there ability of their lab to measure watts compared to international standards. NOT THE ACCURACY! It also should state at which sigma point, normally 3 sigma, which they don't. So they really don't claim any accuracy at all. Also the variance from the true error could vary across the measuring range, being the worst at the lower end.
It is disappointing that not one manufacturer gives even one point of error at a range point.
We all should put more pressure on these to give proper information on these and the errors accross the range.
Is that a shimano power meter pedal at 6:15?
Nope, those would be well out of the shot..... if they existed. :)
I bet this review helps sales from Rotor and Favero. ;-)
Seriously impressed with those rotor cranks, make dura-ace look about as stiff as a bowl of noodles.
can these issue be sorted by firmware updates in your opinion?
It's hard to tell. I don't have any visibility to know exactly what's occurring. I'd have to keep throwing tests at it and observing. I'll have a guess that the cadence issues should be shorted by better firmware..... If the crank flex/torque angles are problematic for the gauges then that might need a hardware change. *All speculation though.
@@gplama great work as always!
i wanna be a party pooper but credit where credit is due
this company atleast actually have a working PM they put on K.S. compared to other company wich i shal not name.
this might not be perfect or "far" from, but its a good cheapish solution for those who do for example grand fondo's and festive ride to be able to pace themselfs with power.
in the end i seriously hope they succeed . and fix them issues shane mentiond. its for the best of us end users in general. GL to magene in this journey and every1 who backs them
You have a point... but I'd argue the definition of "working". Remembering IQ^2 did deliver a sample unit to me (just as Magene have here) that did work as expected.
@@gplama oh wow realy i can only remember the 1 they send out the shells without any actual working chips in it while the Ks was being active. gues i missed that 1 then.
Hey Shane Merry Xmas ( Today - yesterday with you lot ); what's the takeaway here, cheers
The take away is that power meters and Kickstarter are still not a good mix.
@@gplama point well made. Hmmmmm. True.
Whatever happened to the fit file podcast??
On ice for now. 🧊
@@gplama Time for a new episode of "Lama Drives" (or better "Von Drives") ;-)
Great review as always. As cyclists we need Magene (or the likes) to succeed or otherwise power meters are going to remain toys for the wealthy for the foreseeable future. On the positive side I didn’t feel there was anything in the review that was unfixable but equally we’ve seen some big players keep tweaking and tweaking products and never quite deliver the promise. I’d maybe invest in a $10 widget on Kickstarter but I’ll wait and see how the shipped product stacks up before parting with substantially more cash than that
There prices seem pretty close to 4iiii. There current kick starter prices tho seem pretty low. But thats with the risk of what kick starter entails we will have to see what msrp ends up being
Very good video
Replicating existing technologies and delivering them at a lower price shouldn’t necessarily result in inferior products. Crank stiffness aside, I am surprised they released this with obvious engineering and tech problems for this or any independent review.
it can now be bought on aliexpress for € 320. Buy or better not?
Until I see trustworthy data that all the issues with this meter have been resolved, I'd keep well clear of it... even if they were giving it away for free.
Great video as always Shane! I have a question: if I use the single sided pm, am I forced to use their crankset or can I mount only the left crank arm (like Stages)?
The way in which the crank arm secures on likely won't allow for that... or if it did, it's unlikely to be safe.
@@gplama thanks for the reply, unfortunately I imagined it. Maybe some kind of adapter will make it work, but I will try to contact the manufacturer to know if it's possible
That flex though...
wish they can made it better and better~~~
Did you see the email Megene have sent out after your review
No. I saw the update to their Kickstater page where they posted this video. I assume it was the same information?
do you make an allowance for teething problems with new launch products? Or (as I suspect) do you expect 'perfection' with v1.0? I often feel like a pseudo beta tester - AKA a premium we pay for being early adopters. Def don't think the P325 is saleable as it is. Far from finished.
I expect a product to perform as claimed, at a minimum. Accepting anything less means I'd have to make excuses for it.
It's all very well these power meters reporting independent left/right power but what about separate left/right cadence? Until that feature is available I'm holding onto my hard earned money thank you very much!
I can't see any use case where separate L/R cadence would be useful.... not unless it was with a really high sample rate (with high speed power) and we could get insight into L/R pedal stroke differences around the whole 360.
@@gplama I apologise - I was making a joke.