13:08 LMAO, you scared the sh*t out this dude LOL Hope you did apologize at the end lol Very interesting flight characteristics though, this prop indeed seems to produce lot of thrust 🔥🚀 Always interesting to see new ideas in the space :) Have a great weekend and keep on flying (without killing anyone lol) 🙏
When I scouted I didn't see that homeless guy living there. Totally my bad. I scout, fly one pack and leave. I saw him while flying and moved up further over him. He stuck his foot up attempting to hit the quad too. The homeless live literally EVERYWHERE all over LA. In the middle of six way intersections even. It's nuts!
Haha I just played that part in super slow motion and was able to pause it with his nasty little bare foot up in the air. He's lucky he didn't get a nice laceration on the sole of his foot haha
I would very much like to see how these blades work with my 3.5inch. As I have it now, I have to get further into the throttle than I like. It screams, when I do get into the throttle. I am interested in how these blades would change the hover point & how on-lookers will respond to the sound characteristics. Looking forward to experimenting with these, I hope Foxeer will produce a 3.5inch version. 🤞
@@Kabab Why would bigger props help? Surely it's to do with the RPM & kv, relative to the pitch of the blade? It's the same problem as running eg 2400 kv motors on a 6S 5 inch build... So on a 7 inch quad with standard motor kv & battery you'd have the same issue?
Please keep on making these videos man this stuff is crucial to the growth and develops out hobby even if the ideas aren’t new this stuff is still really interesting and plenty of people watch videos like this one just to for the noise or because it is interesting but we can slowly indoctrinate them into our hobby through subliminal media presented to them through 10 minute videos on unique propeller technology/development.
Cool video! I think the key point you nailed in all of this so far is the spike in interest MIT stirred up in experimental propellor design. I can see someone doing a combo Zipline/Toroid(or donut, etc) experiment in in the near future. An asymmetrical toroid prop would be so cool...
Great analysis. Have you tried OpenFOAM? It’s a fluid dynamics modelling package. Could be very interesting to analyze these prop designs. On a funny note … I’m Canadian. I eat donuts. These props do not remind me of donuts… 😂
😂 I love Tim Hortons too! This isn't Tim Hortons. The prop manufacturers have a few different software suites they use. I'm not sophisticated like that. Maybe one day
The boxer is the best controller our industry has ever seen. get it and don't look back. I'd be surprised if anything comparable exists moving forward within the next 5yrs
This shape is not called a donut, it's a Mobius strip. I found research from NASA in 1998 on such propellers, so these MIT scientists didn't invent anything. This design does not improve anything, but duplicates the number of blades, 4-blade propellers have better thrust and noise compared to a two-propeller, due to the reduced efficiency of grams per watt. Search for "Screws, propellers and fans based on the Moebius strip"
Yeah I didn't want to explicitly attack them so hard but this is all true unfortunately. This concept isn't even remotely original. Donut is more memorable than Mobius Prop 😅
I appreciate all the analysis, but without good CFD it's all just shooting blind ideas into the wind. I'm glad something markedly different is being tested, though. And I'm glad somebody was willing to spend the money to injection mold it. Certain powersports industries just stagnate for decades because nobody is willing to take a risk like this.
I wish that prop got more attention. It's far more interesting than this Mobius concept. I don't believe the Zipline design would work for our purpose but it deserves far more attention than it's getting
There is no point in cutting off the tips of the blade. First and foremost, it's crashing the stability of the single blade. It's like testing a deranged 4 prop ...or like pricking holes into your car tires, expecting it to drive ...somehow... better. Never gonna happen.
Yep you're right except that it did improve. I later balanced the props a bit and the performance was genuinely better in every respect compared to the closed loop. Again, I completely agree with you but the real world has a habit of being a bit unpredictable.
@@Kabab Beforehand I wanna say, that I follow toroidal-ish prop designs closely. And I like them to see being tested, so I appreciate your video. There are subjective ways and objectives ways to test these toroidal-ish prop. Testing them in a subjective way is a value in itself (more/less snappy, more/less speed/acceleration/, more/less noisy). But this doesn't substitute subjective measurement by telemetry etc. pp. Only if subjective and objective ways of testing are put together, its giving the whole picture. The idea behind closed loop props is to better handle vortices at the tip of the prop. I'm skeptical in both ways. Some issue I got with the toroidal-isch props is: * even if they reduce vortices(big questionmark here)/drag the higher number of blades is going to kill this advantage * at same rpm torodal-isch props produce less thrust. At same thrust they are as noisy as normal props and need equal or more energy * toroidals change the frequency (less high pitched) but not the volume of the sound (at same thrust). This all may change with future development of toroidals, but for the moment it's like that. But I'm quite sure of one thing: There is no way to turn a conventional prop design into a toroidal or vice versa. Because it's like adding a disadvantage to a disadvantage.
@@michaelmueller9635 in this situation, I personally do not believe the connected loop at the end is in any way helping with the tip vortecies. As you said, it's more of a traditional prop design. I thought the loop at the end would do more but now after testing, I'm rather confident that it's just creating a giant vortex instead. I was very hopeful and the props are still very interesting but this specific iteration is not something I'd use for anything but novelty
It was meant for ultralight should the intention be silent and/or hover/stable craft. I'm building a sub250 5 inch with 2203 4S with it. Therefore, replacing it with a race/freestyle platform just doesn't make sense - for fun fine.
Hi Bob, Thanks for the video on these props, I just figured it would be a fade and die-out. But I didn't think it would be as good as they are. Thanks again for the information.
Idk, if I never heard or been aro7nd drones before, regardless of the noise profile, if I hear something weird, I'll immediately try and f8nd the source. I feel most ppl are like this
i'm really curious if the pitch is same as the bi-blade props, and i heard it's still less efficient than usual props, but damn I'm happy to see there are finally plastic version of the toridal props :3
@@GregQuillen yeah but it has the sound profile of a lower pitched prop, which bi-blade also gives a lower pitch, and i wonder if it's also similar in pitch as they should share the same rotational frequency
Unfortunately there's nothing that can take the place of floss. A water pik can be helpful but it's not quite the same. That being said, anything you do to clean your teeth and get between them is good and no dentist is going to complain about. You can try using different floss types that have different textures. There's the super slick glide stuff which I usually don't recommend, the woven waxed dentotape which I strongly recommend or perio floss which is sort of a fluffy fabric floss.
@TheActionLab made a video about unequally spaced blades to get low pitch sound... i saw once a car radiator fan with weird blade spacing and now i understand why. Does this principle also apply to this prop?
Really want to know the difference between a 'thicker' tipped toroidal prop vs a traditional prop from a safety point of view. They look like they could be designed in a way to not hurt performance too much but be safer to fly around people and less likely to break the skin. In that case these could be compared with ducted props and they should stand up well.
Because it's very hard to keep the prop tip stable under load. It'll just flitter once the rpm gets too high because it has no support. That may be what's happening here when I clipped the props
Sure but I'm of the mindset that I'd rather not tuney quad to fit the prop. The prop should be made to fit the use case....unless there's some benefits to be gained by it which I've never seen there be.
you basically have a Z blade and an S blade but they are on the same alignment, rotate the S (or Z) 32' around the shaft and it will be quieter, why? something to do with harmonics, saw it on another video just with a pair of props stacked on 1 motor, X orientation 90 offset noisy, not X quieter.
the only good thing of this prop is, you can hang it on a nail. i hope one day you will proof your feelings with measurement. i dont believe at all that cutting the tips will improve anything. the tip with nose to the front will make uncontrolled movements up and down, oszillations with throttle. this is one of the most disturbing videos i ever saw in our hobby.
I've tested a LOT of props. I completely understand what you're saying and agree. However clipping the prop ends did drastically increase the props response characteristics. Even with the wobbles from the imbalance
LOL! NO! it was just my bad that I didn't see the guy living over there when I scouted. The homeless literally live everywhere around LA. It's ridiculous
i wonder if they broke at the tips because of how it was injection molded. if it fills in from the middle and goes down the blades where it comes together at the tips it might not bond together too well when the plastic meets. but it looks like most of the blades were there, so it was still flyable
They make me think of Bi-Planes, those old double winged aircraft, they had double wings because the wing shapes weren't great back then. I feel it is the same story here. Thanks for Luv ;)
Technically the bi-blade has one edge over the tri-blade in this kind of design, so it should technically, produce more thrust than a tri-blade. But, traditionally you also should have less thrust produced behind the leading edge as the air gets dirty. Tri-blade should logically be more efficient as the leading edge never has to break the air "again" and it has one less blade. In my 3d printed testing the tri-blade was way more resilient, but then again, I couldn't even get the bi-blade to really lift off from the ground effect as it flexed that much. The sound is lower in pitch, but not less loud. The tri-blade for sure had a ton of thrust before it tore itself apart. The people who designed the first of these went really low pitch really fast probably due to the throttle issue. D'oh nut, I hope they make them in simpsons yellow and marge blue 🤭
Oh no you totally scared the crap out of that guy at 13:10 🥲 Yeah snake oil was my immediate first thought of this propeller, would be cool if ppl eventually evolved this design to be better at something than normal props
Hero 11 mini in 4k 60fps 8:7 with ND filter locked at 1/60 shutter. It does have a crop to 16:9. I compress the vertical to 90% to get a little more vertical fov in there
@@Kabab Got the 11 mini as well. I record at 8:7 and gyroflow does the 16:9 cropping anyway, guess I need to try out compressing verticality. Thanks a lot
What you're seeing is just the ND filter and lens rectification. A flight video isn't going to convey much about the prop unless there's something drastic going on. I'm compensating for any other performance latitude in my piloting.
@@Kabab Oh okay, wow. I was always unsure about this "corrected" view (for freestyle) because I felt it kinda acted as stabilization, but I didn't realize the effect is that huge.
@@prottentogo yeah gyroflow 85% GoPro rectification. Also, I shoot in 8:7 and I squish it down to 90% height to try and get more FOV and a sort of superview look. I wish I could get the actual superview gradient squish but haven't looked into how. I really really like gyroflow that it lets you separate stabilization and lens rectification
APC dragonfly? did HQ make something similar too? Oh yeah just looked it up. HQ made it too. so then I got it wrong and the APC prop wasn't called the dragonfly....yeah comparable
I’m also unscientifically wondering how a prop with all blades just curved like the front (not connected just scimitar front half shape) would do in bi/tri/quad.
The "cut the ends" bit is rather silly. If you want a quad blade then there are already props like that. Buy one of those. The actual *point* of this prop is the donut shape, to see whether combining two tips together would reduce tip drag.
There aren't actually props in a quad blade format with this shape. It's the blades being close together that makes the difference. After testing, I'm not convinced the connected blade tips does anything but actually create more drag. So clipping them and testing a quad blade with very close blades made a lot of sense and shockingly improved the performance
@@Kabab I doubt having them closer together would help. Maybe comparing these props with the cut ends to standard four bladed high pitched props would make more sense. Else you're comparing apples to oranges.
@@Vousie well you doubting doesn't really explain reality. That's why I tested it. Even if I don't think it'll work out, I'll do it to see what I learn. In this case, it was genuinely better than the original prop and the efficiency was good too. This prop would be better if the clipped and finished the ends.
Too Bad the Donut is so fragile, it looks as if It would tend to glance off/push past scraggle in props out mode if it were made of the "Durable" Nylon. Thanks for the look, I'll give these a try when they become available and hope that maybe this concept will be refined going forward. Maybe a less pitchy version would fly better and be more efficient. It wasn't that long ago the hot debate was if Tri-blades would ever catch on....
I'm still not convinced the toroidal shape is worth a damn at all. It is however a very intesting prop. Especially since it's not as inefficient as a quad blade.
I want a 6” to try on my nano drak wing. Chopping down on the high pitch screeching due to the turbulent air off the wing foil would be cool. Not sure if the tip vortices are a huge player but would love to try
did you test the safety of these props? When I first saw these props I figured it was the end of ducts and we could just fly these and not worry about "lacerating" anyone.
@@matheusfpv make sure to get the elrs version. This thing pumps out 1W ELRS. I only run it at 100mw and have the tiny ceramic antenna inside the body of my 5" and haven't had even a hint of issue. It's quite incredible.
@@Kabab which ep2/ elrs with built in antenna RX's do you prefer? I have happy model txco ep2's in cart but I'm concerned as some people say other brands are better.
Did you ever try flying my 3" 3D printed TPU props? I'm guessing they worked so well on their very first prints was because wanted a design that prints strong so was thinking about how the printer will actually print them, hence why they're flat like those for 3D flying. Dead curious to see what they look like at full speed with a high speed camera, the TPU must stretch a bit and I bet the blades twist slightly, maybe flatten out a little. Still can't believe how well they worked, that first set of TPU props I printed 2+ years ago still fly fine today.
@@KababI did lots of flips & rolls in the maiden flight to see how they'd react at full speed, and then purposely flew into a metal pole. So surprised they handled it all so well. On the practical side, yeah not so much, they were made out of sheer curiosity as are a lot of my designs. I didn't work much more on them after that as I unexpectedly quickly achieved what I set out to do, make some usable working 3D printed props. Because of how indestructible they are compared to all others, they could be your Last Resort props, like when you've still got charged packs but the bando ate all your normal props.
@@Kabab I know, 7 months ago I created a TPU cable tie which got popular and for the upload I took a photo of my 8kg 3D printer hanging from one... printed at 150% scale it was easily carrying 12kg. Called: Hoopin TPU Cable Tie
Because I know what a quad blade flies like. I know how much amperage they pull and their general speed because I've flown so many of them. You don't have to take my word for it. Please don't in fact. Pickup a couple sets and give them a go. Super interesting
Would it make sense to have the modified prop on a bigger quad (10”) and made out of a stiffer material (maybe Carbon fiber) And then see if the stiffer build would make it behave in the way you would want it too? After the R&D making it smaller and stronger shouldn’t be an issue (hopefully).
yeah I didn't discuss that aspect because it's just a huge unknown. I have the same thought that if you pull this out to a larger prop size where the RPM is naturally lower, it may work out a lot better.
@@Kabab Pretty sure MIT mentioned that larger props like the old school dji 10" prop they compared too are better for this design because of the higher tip speed.
13:08 LMAO, you scared the sh*t out this dude LOL Hope you did apologize at the end lol
Very interesting flight characteristics though, this prop indeed seems to produce lot of thrust 🔥🚀
Always interesting to see new ideas in the space :)
Have a great weekend and keep on flying (without killing anyone lol) 🙏
Damn saw that. He was hauling too
Very risky flying that low and fast at a park. Spotter anyone? Glad that guy wasn't standing.
When I scouted I didn't see that homeless guy living there. Totally my bad. I scout, fly one pack and leave. I saw him while flying and moved up further over him. He stuck his foot up attempting to hit the quad too. The homeless live literally EVERYWHERE all over LA. In the middle of six way intersections even. It's nuts!
Haha I just played that part in super slow motion and was able to pause it with his nasty little bare foot up in the air. He's lucky he didn't get a nice laceration on the sole of his foot haha
@@Kabab Im sure he was just scared and threw it up to protect himself.
With the ends cut off the propellers resembled the props in Mark Robers zipline video.
Somewhat
I would very much like to see how these blades work with my 3.5inch. As I have it now, I have to get further into the throttle than I like. It screams, when I do get into the throttle. I am interested in how these blades would change the hover point & how on-lookers will respond to the sound characteristics. Looking forward to experimenting with these, I hope Foxeer will produce a 3.5inch version. 🤞
I would expect this concept to be worse on smaller size props. It should improve on larger props where the overall rpm is reduced
@@Kabab Why would bigger props help? Surely it's to do with the RPM & kv, relative to the pitch of the blade? It's the same problem as running eg 2400 kv motors on a 6S 5 inch build... So on a 7 inch quad with standard motor kv & battery you'd have the same issue?
I want to try this out on my 6s Dart 250 🎉I’m running a 2306 1400kv on 6s that’s the sweet spot on a flying wing
Please keep on making these videos man this stuff is crucial to the growth and develops out hobby even if the ideas aren’t new this stuff is still really interesting and plenty of people watch videos like this one just to for the noise or because it is interesting but we can slowly indoctrinate them into our hobby through subliminal media presented to them through 10 minute videos on unique propeller technology/development.
i had a feeling this video would come eventually
i've designed my own, too
with some issues, but looks pretty good in cad
Cool video! I think the key point you nailed in all of this so far is the spike in interest MIT stirred up in experimental propellor design.
I can see someone doing a combo Zipline/Toroid(or donut, etc) experiment in in the near future. An asymmetrical toroid prop would be so cool...
Really wish the zipline prop got more attention. super interesting
haha that guy at 00:13:08 goes full turtle, and puts his feet up. play it back at .25 speed. Interesting prop, glad to see a video from you!
Great analysis. Have you tried OpenFOAM? It’s a fluid dynamics modelling package. Could be very interesting to analyze these prop designs. On a funny note … I’m Canadian. I eat donuts. These props do not remind me of donuts… 😂
😂 I love Tim Hortons too! This isn't Tim Hortons. The prop manufacturers have a few different software suites they use. I'm not sophisticated like that. Maybe one day
this is the stuff that keeps me inspired. thanks for taking the time to sprinkle some uploads on us.
The back blade sitting a little higher than the front one is kind of like that zipline prop! Very cool. How do you like the boxer?
The boxer is the best controller our industry has ever seen. get it and don't look back. I'd be surprised if anything comparable exists moving forward within the next 5yrs
This shape is not called a donut, it's a Mobius strip. I found research from NASA in 1998 on such propellers, so these MIT scientists didn't invent anything. This design does not improve anything, but duplicates the number of blades, 4-blade propellers have better thrust and noise compared to a two-propeller, due to the reduced efficiency of grams per watt. Search for "Screws, propellers and fans based on the Moebius strip"
Yeah I didn't want to explicitly attack them so hard but this is all true unfortunately. This concept isn't even remotely original.
Donut is more memorable than Mobius Prop 😅
@Kabab How memorable depends how much you're into comics😅
I like the name 'Moebius' more than donut.
Morbius prop
"Mmm...Donuts...errggghhhh"🍩
Boat industry has been using this design for props for some time now, especially i think on bass boats.
I appreciate all the analysis, but without good CFD it's all just shooting blind ideas into the wind. I'm glad something markedly different is being tested, though. And I'm glad somebody was willing to spend the money to injection mold it. Certain powersports industries just stagnate for decades because nobody is willing to take a risk like this.
All the manufacturers have various software they use to simulate. They're all okay but none are perfect. I agree, it should be tuned to be closer
It would be interesting to test a pair of bi blades in a stack, so that they are aligned more like a four blade version of the Zipline blade.
One could also play with making the trailing blade slightly higher pitch.
Apples to oranges but in a nutshell More surface area, more drag.
wow i would have expected propwash on those sharp pullouts.
Ahoy there Bot! I have my filter slider almost all the way down. Even if I use bologna for props there shouldn't be propwash.
Its funny how their one page document with no technicality whatsoever got an award lol
By this metric, every research paper I ever wrote in college deservesa a Nobel prize. I should have like five phd's
Have you heard about the zipline propeller? Or tested such a design yet?
I wish that prop got more attention. It's far more interesting than this Mobius concept. I don't believe the Zipline design would work for our purpose but it deserves far more attention than it's getting
Awesome KababFPV . Thanks for the video and info . Cool stuff 💪🏻👊🏻
What a nugget of gold to wake up to! I was waiting for you to weigh in on this. Very interesting indeed.
Seems like more weight at the tip of a prop would reduce response.
weight and aerodynamic load
Where can I found the MIT Paper talking about these propellers?? can anyone provide the link to the paper?
Here you go: www.ll.mit.edu/sites/default/files/other/doc/2023-02/TVO_Technology_Highlight_41_Toroidal_Propeller.pdf
Here's the patent: patents.google.com/patent/US20190135410A1/en
Dude. I live to test props.
There is no point in cutting off the tips of the blade. First and foremost, it's crashing the stability of the single blade. It's like testing a deranged 4 prop ...or like pricking holes into your car tires, expecting it to drive ...somehow... better. Never gonna happen.
Yep you're right except that it did improve. I later balanced the props a bit and the performance was genuinely better in every respect compared to the closed loop. Again, I completely agree with you but the real world has a habit of being a bit unpredictable.
@@Kabab Beforehand I wanna say, that I follow toroidal-ish prop designs closely. And I like them to see being tested, so I appreciate your video.
There are subjective ways and objectives ways to test these toroidal-ish prop. Testing them in a subjective way is a value in itself (more/less snappy, more/less speed/acceleration/, more/less noisy). But this doesn't substitute subjective measurement by telemetry etc. pp.
Only if subjective and objective ways of testing are put together, its giving the whole picture.
The idea behind closed loop props is to better handle vortices at the tip of the prop.
I'm skeptical in both ways. Some issue I got with the toroidal-isch props is:
* even if they reduce vortices(big questionmark here)/drag the higher number of blades is going to kill this advantage
* at same rpm torodal-isch props produce less thrust. At same thrust they are as noisy as normal props and need equal or more energy
* toroidals change the frequency (less high pitched) but not the volume of the sound (at same thrust).
This all may change with future development of toroidals, but for the moment it's like that.
But I'm quite sure of one thing:
There is no way to turn a conventional prop design into a toroidal or vice versa. Because it's like adding a disadvantage to a disadvantage.
@@michaelmueller9635 in this situation, I personally do not believe the connected loop at the end is in any way helping with the tip vortecies. As you said, it's more of a traditional prop design. I thought the loop at the end would do more but now after testing, I'm rather confident that it's just creating a giant vortex instead. I was very hopeful and the props are still very interesting but this specific iteration is not something I'd use for anything but novelty
Excellent review! I hope that picnic-er (ruclips.net/video/EufccE_vh9w/видео.html) brought TP...And I'm not talking toothpicks! LOL
It was meant for ultralight should the intention be silent and/or hover/stable craft.
I'm building a sub250 5 inch with 2203 4S with it.
Therefore, replacing it with a race/freestyle platform just doesn't make sense - for fun fine.
Hi Bob, Thanks for the video on these props, I just figured it would be a fade and die-out. But I didn't think it would be as good as they are. Thanks again for the information.
"Not quieter" "pretty"
Honestly thank you , I may take the advice and "try" them but at least I won't waste Any time ;)
That poor guy at 13:09! lol
I have issue with these props, from a dental perspective. Normal props can be used as toothpicks, quite effectively actually, not so with these ... :/
valid concern!
Idk, if I never heard or been aro7nd drones before, regardless of the noise profile, if I hear something weird, I'll immediately try and f8nd the source. I feel most ppl are like this
Very interesting, nice to see the industry trying new things, always innovating. Thanks for testing and reviewing
i'm really curious if the pitch is same as the bi-blade props, and i heard it's still less efficient than usual props, but damn I'm happy to see there are finally plastic version of the toridal props :3
Well it's really 4 blade prop not biblades
@@GregQuillen yeah but it has the sound profile of a lower pitched prop, which bi-blade also gives a lower pitch, and i wonder if it's also similar in pitch as they should share the same rotational frequency
@Carson Light_Lapse I thought it was more pitch.. ??
the guy at 13:08 almost ninja kicked you outta the air lol, that was pretty close to him for a 5 inch lmao.
It sounded like a lawmower when you clipped the blades. That would sound a lot better for random people
I really love watching these videos, its nice to see your perspective on these experimental ideas
you really just need to fly these through a smoke wall and watch the trails.
13:08 lol that guy get scared
It was unfortunately a homeless. I didn't notice him. My bad but then again, they're literally everywhere in California
missed your vids for a while but it's great your still Flossing 🤣
@KababFPV is there anything that is as efficient as flossing that gets the same effect?
I haven sensory issues and flossing kinda kills me.
Unfortunately there's nothing that can take the place of floss. A water pik can be helpful but it's not quite the same. That being said, anything you do to clean your teeth and get between them is good and no dentist is going to complain about.
You can try using different floss types that have different textures. There's the super slick glide stuff which I usually don't recommend, the woven waxed dentotape which I strongly recommend or perio floss which is sort of a fluffy fabric floss.
Haha "snake oil" thx for the shoutout 😂🎉
Way more chance of getting well stuck in trees. Interesting tho.
@TheActionLab made a video about unequally spaced blades to get low pitch sound... i saw once a car radiator fan with weird blade spacing and now i understand why. Does this principle also apply to this prop?
na that's different but attempts to achieve the same goal. I think that design is much more interesting and wish there was more development around it
Really want to know the difference between a 'thicker' tipped toroidal prop vs a traditional prop from a safety point of view. They look like they could be designed in a way to not hurt performance too much but be safer to fly around people and less likely to break the skin. In that case these could be compared with ducted props and they should stand up well.
I wouldn't say these props are really any safer...
Swept forward wings reduce tip turbulance, noise, drag, etc.
Why are there no "swept forward" props? Has anyone tried?
Because it's very hard to keep the prop tip stable under load. It'll just flitter once the rpm gets too high because it has no support. That may be what's happening here when I clipped the props
My takeaway from this video has to be impact full music improves how you fly...more impact full music please :-)
😂
13:07
The guy's heart must have come in his mouth.
man that guy freaked out when you flew over him
I'd try some throttle expo to adjust the aggressive feeling.
Sure but I'm of the mindset that I'd rather not tuney quad to fit the prop. The prop should be made to fit the use case....unless there's some benefits to be gained by it which I've never seen there be.
might be best for speed long range cruising...
you basically have a Z blade and an S blade but they are on the same alignment, rotate the S (or Z) 32' around the shaft and it will be quieter, why? something to do with harmonics, saw it on another video just with a pair of props stacked on 1 motor, X orientation 90 offset noisy, not X quieter.
It's called the blade pass frequency of something of the sort. It doesn't really explain why the nosie is less or higher pitched. It just sort of is.
@@Kabab yup it's beyond my level of the understanding of it I just watched the vid and noticed it was quieter and remember seeing it.
From what you're saying, it sounds like a prop with less bite but a similar design will be more popular with fpvers.
Yes definitely and the blade tips cut and finished where they are will likely be better
the only good thing of this prop is, you can hang it on a nail. i hope one day you will proof your feelings with measurement. i dont believe at all that cutting the tips will improve anything. the tip with nose to the front will make uncontrolled movements up and down, oszillations with throttle. this is one of the most disturbing videos i ever saw in our hobby.
I've tested a LOT of props. I completely understand what you're saying and agree. However clipping the prop ends did drastically increase the props response characteristics. Even with the wobbles from the imbalance
Slightly more pleasant sound
13:08 stop zzz in the park LMAO dude lost his sht
13:08 reminded me of Tony Hawk Pro skater 2. In the Venice beach level you had to Ollie the magic bum
I literally burst out laughing.
LOL! NO! it was just my bad that I didn't see the guy living over there when I scouted. The homeless literally live everywhere around LA. It's ridiculous
i wonder if they broke at the tips because of how it was injection molded. if it fills in from the middle and goes down the blades where it comes together at the tips it might not bond together too well when the plastic meets. but it looks like most of the blades were there, so it was still flyable
Could be but I can't find a seam on the end. I'd say it's just too thin
I can imagine bi-blades being just better at everything :P and at 13:08 that guy lmao 🤣🤣🤣
They make me think of Bi-Planes, those old double winged aircraft, they had double wings because the wing shapes weren't great back then. I feel it is the same story here. Thanks for Luv ;)
Donut needs that carbon reinforcement
Technically the bi-blade has one edge over the tri-blade in this kind of design, so it should technically, produce more thrust than a tri-blade. But, traditionally you also should have less thrust produced behind the leading edge as the air gets dirty. Tri-blade should logically be more efficient as the leading edge never has to break the air "again" and it has one less blade. In my 3d printed testing the tri-blade was way more resilient, but then again, I couldn't even get the bi-blade to really lift off from the ground effect as it flexed that much. The sound is lower in pitch, but not less loud. The tri-blade for sure had a ton of thrust before it tore itself apart. The people who designed the first of these went really low pitch really fast probably due to the throttle issue. D'oh nut, I hope they make them in simpsons yellow and marge blue 🤭
Getting some of these... Where's the park you fly? Just curious, that looks like burbank blvd.? Like if I'm right 😅
Maybe north Hollywood park
Across the street from Apollo airfield
Dude at 13:08 had to change his pants xD
Toroidal prop I need.some bad
Oh no you totally scared the crap out of that guy at 13:10 🥲 Yeah snake oil was my immediate first thought of this propeller, would be cool if ppl eventually evolved this design to be better at something than normal props
What GoPro settings are you using? Everything looks so perfect, especially the FOV
Hero 11 mini in 4k 60fps 8:7 with ND filter locked at 1/60 shutter. It does have a crop to 16:9. I compress the vertical to 90% to get a little more vertical fov in there
@@Kabab Got the 11 mini as well. I record at 8:7 and gyroflow does the 16:9 cropping anyway, guess I need to try out compressing verticality. Thanks a lot
@@volvo850enjoyer8 go to the resolution menu of gyroflow and choose default. It'll pop back to 8:7
Super poor quality
I really don't understand why there's heavy stabilization in a prop review video (or tests of other gear for that matter)..
What you're seeing is just the ND filter and lens rectification. A flight video isn't going to convey much about the prop unless there's something drastic going on. I'm compensating for any other performance latitude in my piloting.
@@Kabab Oh okay, wow. I was always unsure about this "corrected" view (for freestyle) because I felt it kinda acted as stabilization, but I didn't realize the effect is that huge.
@@prottentogo yeah gyroflow 85% GoPro rectification. Also, I shoot in 8:7 and I squish it down to 90% height to try and get more FOV and a sort of superview look. I wish I could get the actual superview gradient squish but haven't looked into how. I really really like gyroflow that it lets you separate stabilization and lens rectification
Dramatic music LOL bro XD made my day since I had similar feelings about the hype around all this
Are these not the hq dragonfly props with closed tips?
APC dragonfly? did HQ make something similar too? Oh yeah just looked it up. HQ made it too. so then I got it wrong and the APC prop wasn't called the dragonfly....yeah comparable
What about 3.5”/3” donut props from Foxeer?
Smaller than 5" will just get worse. Larger than 5" should improve
@@Kabab True
Fascinating....
A dentist promoting donuts, smells fishy😂
😂
13:07 hahaha!
I’m also unscientifically wondering how a prop with all blades just curved like the front (not connected just scimitar front half shape) would do in bi/tri/quad.
Seems like it's a lower pitch noise meaning quiter at a distance, that's what MIT claimed and larger props will have a bigger difference.
The foxeer prop really just sounds like a normal biblade similar to the Azure 5050 Pro carbon props.
The "cut the ends" bit is rather silly. If you want a quad blade then there are already props like that. Buy one of those. The actual *point* of this prop is the donut shape, to see whether combining two tips together would reduce tip drag.
There aren't actually props in a quad blade format with this shape. It's the blades being close together that makes the difference. After testing, I'm not convinced the connected blade tips does anything but actually create more drag. So clipping them and testing a quad blade with very close blades made a lot of sense and shockingly improved the performance
@@Kabab I doubt having them closer together would help. Maybe comparing these props with the cut ends to standard four bladed high pitched props would make more sense. Else you're comparing apples to oranges.
@@Vousie well you doubting doesn't really explain reality. That's why I tested it. Even if I don't think it'll work out, I'll do it to see what I learn. In this case, it was genuinely better than the original prop and the efficiency was good too. This prop would be better if the clipped and finished the ends.
Thanks for the video bro very interesting. Keep it up always enjoyed your videos and assistance from back in the day.
Fad. We will not remember these a year from now
Very likely
Awesome. Your videos are the best. So interesting to hear your thoughts and I'll definitely pick up some of Those props
lmfao 13:09 Homeless takin over all the parks.
Yeah they're literally everywhere around LA.
13:08 The dude who laid there shit his pants
It was unfortunately a homeless. I didn't notice him. My bad but then again, they're literally everywhere in California
13:08 😂😂😂😂
13:08 .... The guy was scared shit.
Unlikely. He stuck his foot up to try and hit me. My bad for not seeing him when I scouted. The homeless are literally everywhere in LA
👍🏻👍🏻
Really happy to see your videos lately!
Agreed!
Sounds much like a typical 4 blades prop just lower pitch really
i want the Zipline propeller
Crap I totally forgot to mention that. Yeah for sure that is a far more intesting concept.
Definitely floss your teeth peeps! Thanks BOB!
Too Bad the Donut is so fragile, it looks as if It would tend to glance off/push past scraggle in props out mode if it were made of the "Durable" Nylon. Thanks for the look, I'll give these a try when they become available and hope that maybe this concept will be refined going forward. Maybe a less pitchy version would fly better and be more efficient. It wasn't that long ago the hot debate was if Tri-blades would ever catch on....
I'm still not convinced the toroidal shape is worth a damn at all. It is however a very intesting prop. Especially since it's not as inefficient as a quad blade.
18:00min i was ignoring everything including the ridiculous name until i saw you cut the prop by hand just eyeballing it. jeez dude haha 🤣
for science!
@@Kabab haha yes yes
Hi, This is the beginning of a new propeller adventure
lol just lol
At least they got the lulz for their effort. 🥴
I want a 6” to try on my nano drak wing. Chopping down on the high pitch screeching due to the turbulent air off the wing foil would be cool. Not sure if the tip vortices are a huge player but would love to try
It may actually work out well on that.
With the broken blades, have you tried clipping the trailing blades altogether? Just want to know the curved blades feel..
Interesting. I didn't think of that but it would effectively turn it into a twin blade which we don't really care for.
Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?
did you test the safety of these props? When I first saw these props I figured it was the end of ducts and we could just fly these and not worry about "lacerating" anyone.
I didn't but I have a hard time believing they're any safer at all.
Do you recommend the boxer radio? Im thinking of picking one for me
It's the best radio that has ever existed in our market. It'll likely be the top radio for the next ~5yrs
@@Kabab so i will buy one right now 😁😁, thnks man
@@matheusfpv make sure to get the elrs version. This thing pumps out 1W ELRS. I only run it at 100mw and have the tiny ceramic antenna inside the body of my 5" and haven't had even a hint of issue. It's quite incredible.
@@Kabab which ep2/ elrs with built in antenna RX's do you prefer? I have happy model txco ep2's in cart but I'm concerned as some people say other brands are better.
@@definingslawek4731 I strongly discourage trusting happymodel with anything
Did you ever try flying my 3" 3D printed TPU props?
I'm guessing they worked so well on their very first prints was because wanted a design that prints strong so was thinking about how the printer will actually print them, hence why they're flat like those for 3D flying.
Dead curious to see what they look like at full speed with a high speed camera, the TPU must stretch a bit and I bet the blades twist slightly, maybe flatten out a little.
Still can't believe how well they worked, that first set of TPU props I printed 2+ years ago still fly fine today.
the TPU props are interesting and really surprising that they work at all but kinda not so practical
@@KababI did lots of flips & rolls in the maiden flight to see how they'd react at full speed, and then purposely flew into a metal pole. So surprised they handled it all so well.
On the practical side, yeah not so much, they were made out of sheer curiosity as are a lot of my designs. I didn't work much more on them after that as I unexpectedly quickly achieved what I set out to do, make some usable working 3D printed props.
Because of how indestructible they are compared to all others, they could be your Last Resort props, like when you've still got charged packs but the bando ate all your normal props.
@@licensetodrive9930 TPU is ridiculously strong for what it is.
@@Kabab I know, 7 months ago I created a TPU cable tie which got popular and for the upload I took a photo of my 8kg 3D printer hanging from one... printed at 150% scale it was easily carrying 12kg.
Called: Hoopin TPU Cable Tie
Why do you say they are faster and more efficient if you don't have tables and dimensions?
Because I know what a quad blade flies like. I know how much amperage they pull and their general speed because I've flown so many of them. You don't have to take my word for it. Please don't in fact. Pickup a couple sets and give them a go. Super interesting
Would it make sense to have the modified prop on a bigger quad (10”) and made out of a stiffer material (maybe Carbon fiber)
And then see if the stiffer build would make it behave in the way you would want it too?
After the R&D making it smaller and stronger shouldn’t be an issue (hopefully).
yeah I didn't discuss that aspect because it's just a huge unknown. I have the same thought that if you pull this out to a larger prop size where the RPM is naturally lower, it may work out a lot better.
@@Kabab Pretty sure MIT mentioned that larger props like the old school dji 10" prop they compared too are better for this design because of the higher tip speed.