Got my Karman last weekend. I am very happy with its backrest but a bit disappointed with the rest. There are some burrs in the area you cannot see, like inside the lower frame at the back of the backrest. This is the area I usually clean on my Aeron when it collects some dirt but no such problem on Aeron. It is also very easy to leave some white marks on the armpad and seat frame. The sharp edge at the front of the seat hurts me every time I stand up and push the chair back with my legs.
Ordered a Gesture last week, receiving it in 1-2 weeks, can't wait to try it out after having watched tons of your guys' vids. Took me months to decide between the Karman and the Gesture, but considering the Gesture already exists for many years and is positively reviewed by many, I think it's the safest choice for me. Also recently noticed that Microsoft is using Gesture as their office chairs in their HQ here, which convinced me a little more to go for the Gesture :p
@@btodtv Received my Gesture yesterday, and I love it! Even though I watched tons of Gesture vids from you guys and some other sources, some stuff still surprised me (mostly positive). The quality of materials used is clearly superb and robust. The hardness of the cushion is perfect for me, it's more hard than soft, but still extremely comfortable. I've been sitting on it for hours in a row already, and not a single pain (not even the tailbone region you guys warned about for the Gesture). The headrest positioning and sturdiness is the best I've ever had in a chair's headrest. The edge of the seat is so soft and flexible that sitting cross-legged is no issue either. The pads on the armrests are like you guys said superb as well, they're hard to the touch (with a slight hint of softness), but somehow you never feel any of that hardness (not even the edges) when you rest your arms on them; it's insanely comfortable. The lumbar support also feels great, it's really helping me stay much better in an ergonomic position compared to any chair I've had before. (And I love how your lumbar remains supported when you lean back.) Some other points I'd like to specifically point out (got mixed feelings about those, but not negative, it's more something I have to get used to I think): 1. It requires quite a bit more strength than I expected to move the armrests around (but then again, that does make it feel extremely sturdy). 2. In certain positions, the headrest tends to make quite some squeaking noises when leaning against it (I solve it by moving it into positions where it doesn't squeak as much). 3. I also took the optional lumbar support, sometimes its feel good, sometimes I don't feel it at all, and sometimes it feels like it's hurting my back a little. Not sure yet what to think about it (maybe I just have to find the right position still), but that's not such a big issue because I only experience it in very specific positions. The thing I'm most curious about now is whether the chair will truly (comfortably) last 12+ years. I had a 1000$ Xenium before this one (which adheres to multiple ergonomic certifications/standards in my country) and that chair was fine at first (Gesture feels better from the get-go though), but that chair quickly became uncomfortable after about 2 years (seat pad turned soft over time, causing you to hit the plastic bottom, ouch) and that chair made squeaking sounds from all sides eventually :-) Anyway to conclude: At first I was a bit skeptical about the price of the Gesture, but I'm now convinced that the Gesture's price is fair/justifiable. Even my previous (expensive) chair feels like a standard, non-ergonomic office chair now that I've experienced this one. I have no regrets buying it, absolutely worth it.
The safest chair I would recommend is the Steelcase Leap. I say safest because it's the most likely to be comfortable for everyone. I also am a fan of the Aeron (size C) if you prefer the more rocking smooth recline. - Guy in the video
Damn, it's been 6 months already? It does look like Steelcase has finally made amends to their warranty in the UK. It's 12 years for all components now, except for the fabric material, which is 5 years. I might consider trying this chair out, but I'm a bit concerned about the seat depth since I currently use an Aeron remastered size C.
Got mine from the Steelcase UK store after about 3 weeks wait, and initially am quite happy with it to be honest - am coming from an Aeron size C myself and can definitely feel the missing few inches on the seat, but it's not unusable or anything. Definitely a lower mesh quality than the Aeron but I much prefer Steelcase's "live back" over the posturefit, though going to be personal preference there :P
Bought this chair after testing an Amia for a month and it didn't quite make it past 3 weeks for me. What I liked the most with Steelcase was with the Amia I noticed how my back posture had improved so much, less slouching and a stronger back. But the Amia just couldn't cut it for me for comfort, I couldn't lean and flex with the back seat. Picked up the Karman as it was on sale, I never had any issues with Mesh chairs in the past and I was very content with it. It took me about 2 weeks to adjust to the chair, but now it's really comfortable for me to sit in. I do find I miss the arms from the Amia, But I've gotten used to the Karman and it works.
Im happy with my humanscale freedom headrest. Its a nod to 20th century engineering and a predecessor to more modern methods of construction yet its an absolutely beautiful piece of design and very comfortable. Once this chair dies i am going to buy another one in leather 👍
@Charles13X Ahnestly had great things to say about it, but I'm pretty sure he's a soulless shill nowadays. I want BTOD to review the Anthros chair so that they can dispel any myths about it.
I just bought both the Karman and the Gesture because I couldn't decide. I will return one of them but I'm not sure which one yet. My main concern was the seat depth, after seeing this video. But actually, the edge of the seat goes exactly as far with both chairs for me, with the deepest setting on the gesture. The recline is very different tho, and the back comfort too. For me the Karman is way ahead in this area. It's the first time I put that amount of money in a chair, and I'm sursprised by the finition. Overall the comfort is good. But some plastics are not great, like the wheels. The adjustment dials, especially on the gesture, feel like real garbage. Etc.. It's a bit disappointing in some areas
@@jj.gallagher I kept the Karman. I've been using it for 10+ hours a day, and I'm really happy with it. The armrests are maybe the weak point, because they don't lock into position, and could be more comfortable. In the end, I choosed this one mainly because the Gesture is too firm for me. It's very comfortable too, it's just a matter of preference.
If you want a mesh chair, then the Mirra 2, Aeron size C and Zody are great choices. But if you want fabric cushion chairs then the Leap v2, Gesture and Fern are great choices.
I don’t know where this craze for back rest flexibility came in but I think it’s overrated. The back rest should be solid so it can support you, not unstable and saggy.
If you want to stay with an all-mesh chair then I would look at an Aeron. You might be between the size B and C. If you want to save some $ then the new Ergohuman is also an option. Both of these chairs will have larger seat depth. - RG
It's hard to find good chairs for those of us in the mid 200 lb (or higher) range. No big channels seems to cover them (for obvious reasons). In other news, would you care if a big (volume) chair seller on amazon was paying people to remove their bad review?
@@JohnSmith-zn4uf I meant it more at volume - I edited my comment. The chair in question is advertised for big and tall people, but that's not really what I meant.
They're not missing a tilt lock, as they have a far superior tilt limiter mechanism. Any good ergonomic chair will never have a mechanism that locks you into a recline position because that's terrible for your back health.
Much like you are not able to access stuff from the USA, we unfortunately cannot access most products available in EU/Scandinavia. When their distribution into our market gets better, we plan to review more of those products -Greg
@@btodtv Yeah, I was interested in the Kinnarps Plus, but they're difficult to find outside of the EU. Why no one else has made a height-adjustable back rest is beyond me. I think a height-adjustable back rest with adjustable lumbar support depth makes a lot more sense than sliding a lump of extra material up and down a fixed back rest. (I don't know if the Plus has adjustable lumbar support depth, probably not, but that would seem like the ideal design to me.) Anyway, they do have a distributor in Austin, TX, so maybe they wouldn't be impossible to get ahold of, especially for a retailer? Although, I recently ordered a Gesture. I was interested in the Karman, but without the ability to try the chair first, I decided not to place my hopes in the Karman's seat frame being comfortable enough for me.
I don't think they should review a chair from a company that purposely deletes negative reviews of their products on Amazon and apparently their own website.
Was not prepared for the chair component swap VFX
Got my Karman last weekend. I am very happy with its backrest but a bit disappointed with the rest. There are some burrs in the area you cannot see, like inside the lower frame at the back of the backrest. This is the area I usually clean on my Aeron when it collects some dirt but no such problem on Aeron. It is also very easy to leave some white marks on the armpad and seat frame. The sharp edge at the front of the seat hurts me every time I stand up and push the chair back with my legs.
Yeah, it looks like that fabric pad they added solves the mesh comfort issue, but it makes the chair more difficult to clean.
Ordered a Gesture last week, receiving it in 1-2 weeks, can't wait to try it out after having watched tons of your guys' vids. Took me months to decide between the Karman and the Gesture, but considering the Gesture already exists for many years and is positively reviewed by many, I think it's the safest choice for me. Also recently noticed that Microsoft is using Gesture as their office chairs in their HQ here, which convinced me a little more to go for the Gesture :p
Would love to hear your feedback after you get the Gesture! Thanks for sharing -Greg
Good move by Microsoft!
@@btodtv Received my Gesture yesterday, and I love it! Even though I watched tons of Gesture vids from you guys and some other sources, some stuff still surprised me (mostly positive). The quality of materials used is clearly superb and robust. The hardness of the cushion is perfect for me, it's more hard than soft, but still extremely comfortable. I've been sitting on it for hours in a row already, and not a single pain (not even the tailbone region you guys warned about for the Gesture). The headrest positioning and sturdiness is the best I've ever had in a chair's headrest. The edge of the seat is so soft and flexible that sitting cross-legged is no issue either. The pads on the armrests are like you guys said superb as well, they're hard to the touch (with a slight hint of softness), but somehow you never feel any of that hardness (not even the edges) when you rest your arms on them; it's insanely comfortable. The lumbar support also feels great, it's really helping me stay much better in an ergonomic position compared to any chair I've had before. (And I love how your lumbar remains supported when you lean back.)
Some other points I'd like to specifically point out (got mixed feelings about those, but not negative, it's more something I have to get used to I think): 1. It requires quite a bit more strength than I expected to move the armrests around (but then again, that does make it feel extremely sturdy). 2. In certain positions, the headrest tends to make quite some squeaking noises when leaning against it (I solve it by moving it into positions where it doesn't squeak as much). 3. I also took the optional lumbar support, sometimes its feel good, sometimes I don't feel it at all, and sometimes it feels like it's hurting my back a little. Not sure yet what to think about it (maybe I just have to find the right position still), but that's not such a big issue because I only experience it in very specific positions.
The thing I'm most curious about now is whether the chair will truly (comfortably) last 12+ years. I had a 1000$ Xenium before this one (which adheres to multiple ergonomic certifications/standards in my country) and that chair was fine at first (Gesture feels better from the get-go though), but that chair quickly became uncomfortable after about 2 years (seat pad turned soft over time, causing you to hit the plastic bottom, ouch) and that chair made squeaking sounds from all sides eventually :-)
Anyway to conclude: At first I was a bit skeptical about the price of the Gesture, but I'm now convinced that the Gesture's price is fair/justifiable. Even my previous (expensive) chair feels like a standard, non-ergonomic office chair now that I've experienced this one. I have no regrets buying it, absolutely worth it.
What is the #1 chair of the guy in the video?
What chair(s) does he recommend for those around his height and weight?
The safest chair I would recommend is the Steelcase Leap. I say safest because it's the most likely to be comfortable for everyone. I also am a fan of the Aeron (size C) if you prefer the more rocking smooth recline. - Guy in the video
Damn, it's been 6 months already?
It does look like Steelcase has finally made amends to their warranty in the UK.
It's 12 years for all components now, except for the fabric material, which is 5 years.
I might consider trying this chair out, but I'm a bit concerned about the seat depth since I currently use an Aeron remastered size C.
Got mine from the Steelcase UK store after about 3 weeks wait, and initially am quite happy with it to be honest - am coming from an Aeron size C myself and can definitely feel the missing few inches on the seat, but it's not unusable or anything.
Definitely a lower mesh quality than the Aeron but I much prefer Steelcase's "live back" over the posturefit, though going to be personal preference there :P
I am 5'11" have a bad back but live in the desert so mesh would be nice. Is this a good option for me?
Bought this chair after testing an Amia for a month and it didn't quite make it past 3 weeks for me.
What I liked the most with Steelcase was with the Amia I noticed how my back posture had improved so much, less slouching and a stronger back. But the Amia just couldn't cut it for me for comfort, I couldn't lean and flex with the back seat.
Picked up the Karman as it was on sale, I never had any issues with Mesh chairs in the past and I was very content with it. It took me about 2 weeks to adjust to the chair, but now it's really comfortable for me to sit in. I do find I miss the arms from the Amia, But I've gotten used to the Karman and it works.
Im happy with my humanscale freedom headrest. Its a nod to 20th century engineering and a predecessor to more modern methods of construction yet its an absolutely beautiful piece of design and very comfortable. Once this chair dies i am going to buy another one in leather 👍
You guys should do a review on Anthros. Other reviewers have been making positive comments about that chair.
@Charles13X Ahnestly had great things to say about it, but I'm pretty sure he's a soulless shill nowadays.
I want BTOD to review the Anthros chair so that they can dispel any myths about it.
I just bought both the Karman and the Gesture because I couldn't decide. I will return one of them but I'm not sure which one yet.
My main concern was the seat depth, after seeing this video. But actually, the edge of the seat goes exactly as far with both chairs for me, with the deepest setting on the gesture.
The recline is very different tho, and the back comfort too. For me the Karman is way ahead in this area.
It's the first time I put that amount of money in a chair, and I'm sursprised by the finition. Overall the comfort is good. But some plastics are not great, like the wheels. The adjustment dials, especially on the gesture, feel like real garbage. Etc.. It's a bit disappointing in some areas
Which did you keep? I'm thinking about the Gesture as well
@@jj.gallagher I kept the Karman. I've been using it for 10+ hours a day, and I'm really happy with it. The armrests are maybe the weak point, because they don't lock into position, and could be more comfortable.
In the end, I choosed this one mainly because the Gesture is too firm for me. It's very comfortable too, it's just a matter of preference.
Thx for the video.... I really like the design and the flex back but Iam also 6,2 tall and want to known which chair can you recommend?
If you want a mesh chair, then the Mirra 2, Aeron size C and Zody are great choices.
But if you want fabric cushion chairs then the Leap v2, Gesture and Fern are great choices.
I don’t know where this craze for back rest flexibility came in but I think it’s overrated. The back rest should be solid so it can support you, not unstable and saggy.
Amazing video as always!! Thank you
Thank you, hope it was helpful! - RG
Im 6 foot on the dot with long legs, what was your goto chair since the karman gave you leg issues?
If you want to stay with an all-mesh chair then I would look at an Aeron. You might be between the size B and C. If you want to save some $ then the new Ergohuman is also an option. Both of these chairs will have larger seat depth. - RG
It's hard to find good chairs for those of us in the mid 200 lb (or higher) range. No big channels seems to cover them (for obvious reasons).
In other news, would you care if a big (volume) chair seller on amazon was paying people to remove their bad review?
I sit a bit above 200 and the BTOD refurbed Amia is a pretty darn good chair, especially once you've dialed in the recline resistance juuuuust right.
Height too. Beyond 6'1"/6'2", you're in the Shadow Realm of office chairs.
What big chair seller, if you don't mind me asking?
@@JohnSmith-zn4uf I meant it more at volume - I edited my comment. The chair in question is advertised for big and tall people, but that's not really what I meant.
Who is paying people to remove bad reviews? -Greg
@@btodtv Sihoo
there's too much cons than pros for this chair, especially with such a high price.
just one remark: You have set up lumbar support inverselly 😊
Are the standard hardfloor wheels on the steelcase chairs suitable for parquet/hardwood floors?
Thank you!
Yes, they should be -Greg
I've looked at a fair amount of high end chairs and most seem to be missing a tilt lock. Why is that?
They're not missing a tilt lock, as they have a far superior tilt limiter mechanism.
Any good ergonomic chair will never have a mechanism that locks you into a recline position because that's terrible for your back health.
Still no best chairs in EU/Scandinavia.. Is it because you guys only ship in NA? :(
Much like you are not able to access stuff from the USA, we unfortunately cannot access most products available in EU/Scandinavia. When their distribution into our market gets better, we plan to review more of those products -Greg
@@btodtv Yeah, I was interested in the Kinnarps Plus, but they're difficult to find outside of the EU. Why no one else has made a height-adjustable back rest is beyond me. I think a height-adjustable back rest with adjustable lumbar support depth makes a lot more sense than sliding a lump of extra material up and down a fixed back rest. (I don't know if the Plus has adjustable lumbar support depth, probably not, but that would seem like the ideal design to me.) Anyway, they do have a distributor in Austin, TX, so maybe they wouldn't be impossible to get ahold of, especially for a retailer?
Although, I recently ordered a Gesture. I was interested in the Karman, but without the ability to try the chair first, I decided not to place my hopes in the Karman's seat frame being comfortable enough for me.
@@jc3drums916 Ordered a Gesture on black friday as well, expecting it to arrive within 1-2 weeks :D
Have you looked at HAG, Kinnarps and Interstuhl?
Can you guys review the Sihoo m57?
I don't think they should review a chair from a company that purposely deletes negative reviews of their products on Amazon and apparently their own website.
Why are there not showrooms where someone can go experience these chairs themselves?
There are, but it depends on where you live.
In the UK, there are multiple authorised dealers for Herman Miller and Steelcase across the country.
Amia
chair
I think it is #chair...haha -Greg
if only it had a headrest...
bro as a standing desk, wont be sitting all day lol