I didn’t care for Akechi in the original game but loved him in Royal. Spending more time with his real self just made the difference in my opinion of him.
I liked him in the original version too. But I suspect it;s because I have some social trauma similar to Akechi so I could pick up on the hints and his perspective that, to be blunt, you can't understand unless you've Been Through Shit.
I have to imagine spending time with him in an actual confidant helped too, even if it's time spent with a false 'persona'. Comments like these make me glad I never got to play the original all those years ago.
In terms of what him and Joker agree on I feel you missed a bit of a crucial detail. It's not just that they both agree that Maruki must be stopped, it's that they both agree that a reality where you have no true free will is one not worth living in. Joker expressed this in the base game by rejecting Yaldabaoth the god of control, and Akechi expressed this by rejecting Maruki knowing full well that he would cease to exist if they win. It ties together perfectly with the game's overarching themes of free will and rebellion and is the ultimate thing that makes their views parallel.
I totally agree with this! That was certainly something I meant to explore a little further but I ended up taking the script in a different direction because I kept going off topic into that moral question which I felt was distracting from my point. However I think I could have at least touched on it. In the future I definitely want to explore that theme in a bit more detail as I think it is a really interesting moral question pose by the game!
I think it might be worth noting that Akechi’s ultimate persona, Hereward, fuses both elements of Robinhood and Loki, thematically conveying the resolution of Akechi’s inner conflict.
I found it odd Hereward stems more from Robin Hood in terms of lore than Loki. It could be coincidence, but despite some claims, I don't think Robin Hood was ever a fake persona. I saw it as the potential for what he could have been, and perhaps with the superhero motif, his initial symbol of hope, but as he became more jaded and somewhat insane, he developed Loki for his means.
@@naos8116 I believe the reason why is because remember when futaba said Robin Hood is for his lies and Loki is for his hatred i believe is because Robin Hood is supposed to be how he looks like but loki is like how he acts like that’s why hereward looks more like Robin hood
Akechi literally says he hates Joker for them were both hurt by Shido, stripped of the happy life they could have had, and yet Joker could get over it, he found a new life and for a while forgot about Shido; while Akechi never could, so much that his main persona is Loki, the cursed child.
Not just that Joker was living better off than he was despite Akechi being a "Detective", super popular in the media & even was in the police at a young age. Yet his father didn't acknowledge him, he had no real friends to support him & he was just alone working very hard to prove that he wasn't a mistake that he had some worth in the world. Meanwhile you have Joker who is someone with a criminal record & he arrives in a city he isn't familiar with & doesn't know anyone in it yet is somehow able to make many supportive friends during his year stay that would vouch for him to be released from jail, freaked out over the fact that he might have died & all saw him off on his final day. That's mainly what's bugging him how could someone like him have something Akechi has been striving for years to get people to like him, to show the world he is worth something & having the will to move on despite life throwing them into a bad situation. It's kinda sad the only time we ever see the Akechi he wants to be badly is if you pick the bad ending where Maruki controls the Universe since we know this isn't him being genuine.
One thing I like about how Akechi is handled in Royal is the fact that the game doesn’t act as an apologist to his behavior. There are too many instances in media, where an anti-hero’s actions far outweigh the good they might be trying to do, but the media portraying them still tries to frame their actions as wholly justified. God of War 3 being the most egregious example I can think of, off the top of my head. But in Persona 5 Royal, the game doesn’t try to sweep Akechi’s crimes under the rug and hope the player ignores them. Instead, they double down on his carnal traits, reaffirming us that yeah, he’s still a huge prick. But he’s a prick you’re in an uneasy alliance with. Even the other Phantom Thieves show distrust towards him. And that’s a good thing, because any real person in their shoes would do the same.
This is one of my favorite aspects of the third semester! My first time playing through the new stuff in royal I was worried that Akechi was just going to magically be a good guy now, but much to my surprise the leaned HARD into his sadistic side!
@@3Waifu Ah. My favorite aspect of it was Maruki himself. His philosophy, his role in the story, his kind and compassionate personality, all of it. It’s why I consider him a full-fledged hero, and personally look up to him, as the kind of person I aspire to be.
funny thing is after Akechi gets into his crass psychopathic self, i played Q2 and immediately felt disturbed when Akechi was still his goody two-shoes self
Also, that was Akechi divorced from his problems. If there was any legitimate goodness In Akechi, it would show up where you have been sucked into another Metaverse created by a god who thinks they are solving trauma by traumadumping on the watchers and you can’t go back until said misguided god is toppled. Also, given Royal reveals Akechi is not for those determining his fate, he would not approve of the sad fate to the moviegoers in Enlil’s theaters either.
Playing base Persona 5, Akechi still ended up being my favorite character in the end. His outbursts and monologues in Shidos palace were so heavy and hurtful really I couldn't help but see what he was really saying before his sacrifice, shout out to Robbie just nailing the role. When I saw the trailers with Akechi being alive in Royal I freaked out but it became all so clear as to why once I saw the new story arc and manual confidant, he ended up getting more of what he needed as a character. The more in depth connection with Joker and influence on the player changed how so many people thought of him in the end, I had felt satisfaction hearing more people appreciate his time within the narrative of course. I'd also like to point out the events of rank 8 in Goro's confidant is absolutely perfect I will never stop going back just to watch it again.
Just a minor detail, Akechi's confidant is not required to reach the true ending. MAXing his confidant gives you an extra scene at the end of the game, but it is not required to experience the 3rd semester.
Interesting... I have some mixed feelings abt this because without reaching Rank 8 I'd assume that Joker's relationship with Akechi is not strong enough to warrant his wish for Akechi's existence
I thoroughly enjoyed Akechi in Royal. His confidant makes him much more interesting and even made me ponder what would happen if he and Joker formed a true partnership discreet from the Phantom Thieves. The game made me want that. It made me feel sad for this callous asshole... I like to think that real Akechi is the guy who pretty much says what others might be thinking, but are too afraid to say, and DARES them to argue against it.
tbh, it's shown countless times through the series that a wildcard is strong because of the bonds they share. If Akechi did bother to make friendship with more people, perhaps he would be stronger than Joker.
I didn't like Akechi until Royal won me over with his character. My problem with Akechi was They didn't give him enough time to developed or screentime to Akechi in OG P5. You see very little of him in Vanilla Version. Originally Akechi was going to have somekind redemption arc for OG P5, but it was cut, due to development problems. I think Altus knew it was a mistake and try to fix Akechi's Story, especially He's a fan favorite character and very popular with Japanese people. In my opinion, it was amazing for what they did to Akechi. His confidant is one of best in the game. And I love it's full of foreshadowing, which hints to future events and Akechi's true nature. Everytime you continues Akechi's confidant, his mask is slowly spilling off mask. Also Robbie Diamond was Godlike as Akechi in Third Semester. Thanks to his over the top crazy voice acting, which made Akechi very unforgettable and funny in Third Semester.
Another Similarity between Joker and Akechi's Personas is that in previous persona games Loki has been a persona of the Fool Arcana, just like Arsene. Even being the ultimate of the Fool in P4. Loki and Arsene/Satanael are even similar in the games' lore as well as the mythology's lore
Sadly no. Strikers specifically mentions Maruki's Palace when you're heading to the final Jail, so the team making Strikers knew about the events of the third semester and chose to leave out bestgirl and skechyakechi
@@matmil5 I know :( I wish they'd make bestgirl and skechyakechi DLC for it but the game's been out too long in japan with no sign of any dlc apart from the soundtrack
Something I really liked about this arc is that most of the time when villains/anti heroes get redeemed or join the good guys they lose their edge and become less interesting and exciting which is why a lot of the time I don't like redemption stories and wish characters stayed an Antagonist. That doesn't happen with Akechi. Part of this is because he doesn't have a redemption story but his goals are aligned with Joker's. Like you mentioned we get to see the real unfiltered Akechi. And he doesn't even necessarily become a good person, he's still Akechi and shows no sign of regretting his actions. But regardless of not having a redemption story his actions are worthy of respect. It's all really well done and doesn't lose the core of what makes Akechi interesting and exciting and they even expand further and make him more interesting.
I always liked the way the game conveyed that Akechi really does care for Joker, even despite all of their differences. Outside of the obvious, like important confidant interactions and the boss fight, (where the game is very clear about how important Joker is to him) he is always pleasantly surprised by the way Joker acts in a very genuine way, and clearly loves speaking to him, even in the side interactions. Him "flirting" with Joker is kind of a meme, but oftentimes it is just him uncharacteristically worrying about or being open to Joker, which is again on the point that Joker matters to him (not to mention that plenty of their interactions are _definitely_ intended to be interpreted as flirting, by both Akechi and the writers.) I know you talk about it in the video, I just like leaving long comments about unimportant things. I would honestly watch a whole video about just Akechi's interactions with Joker. Anyways, keep up the awesome work, I'm glad I found this hidden gem of a channel!
More on the possibility of akechi truly being alive, on the last day of the game when you’re saying your goodbyes, you can talk to the guy at the jazz club. He’ll ask about Akechi and address how he’s never seen him with someone else before going to the jazz club with you, and he’ll ask if he’s ok. Jokers little thought bubble is “but he’s already...” and then he reaches into his pocket to find Akechi’s glove. There’s another thought bubble that goes something like how the deal hasn’t ended yet, alluding that joker hasn’t seen the last of Akechi. HEAVILY implies that he’s still out there, not to mention they really never reached a proper end to their deal, besides in the bad ending where Akechi angrily calls it off.
Akechi is tied to Joker’s character development. The only reason Akechi exists in the third semester is because Joker regretted being unable to help someone so similar to him. Joker is defined by his character arc of helping people: trying to help the lady at the beginning of the game, Ann, Ryuji, Makoto, Yusuke, Futaba, Haru, Morgana, Akechi, most confidants, etc... He is able to do so successfully in every case but Akechi’s, someone with whom he was both very close and could relate to in a personal sense. Joker is held back by his desire to help Akechi and in choosing to fight Maruki, Joker’s final moment of hesitation is in regards to his friend disappearing. Even in spite of this he eventually decides that Maruki must be stopped because of his differing views on what the world should be. Upon defeating Maruki, you destroy the metaverse and the remainder of Joker’s power as a trickster, thereby bringing him down to the level of an average human: he is no longer special, just one of many. The protagonist acts more reserved as Akira and more confidently as Joker: he has the strength to help people, but to save the world in the end, he must give up his power. The train window scene offers a glimpse into Akira’s heart, showing his desires. This is evident by the 3rd semester like tint present when you see both Akechi and Joker through the train window. When Akira closes the blinds, it signifies that he has decided to accept that Akechi is gone and that he is no longer a phantom thief.
You’re such an underrated youtuber, man. you make great content. Also, Akechi is so great. i love how they expanded on him and made him an actual confidant you could hangout with.
Thanks for the kind feedback! I totally agree that Akechi works much better in P5R than he did in P5. having a true confidant really makes a world of difference when fleshing out a character and get the audience invested in them!
@@naos8116 Cause Joker never truly accepted the fact that pancake boy is dead... Obviously he could escape and survives Shido's Palace and that's why believing in that is a requisite to get into the third Semester.
As a Detective Prince, Akechi had navigator lines programmed into the game. In the lines where he reprimands you for screwing up, his persona is slipping. I've grown to feel bad about Akechi. In a way, he reminds me of Delita Heiral of Final Fantasy Tactics, albeit more ruthless. He is scheming to further his own goals, disposing of everything that goes against him. He took the long road, trying to get back at the man who ruined his life. His goal is understandable, but his methods leave to be desired.
So while ive been playing persona 5 strikers 99% of the time im thinking....."damn i miss akechi" the snarky remarks he could have in the game would be perfect timing also i just miss the rivalry between him and joker since royal is supposedly not canon i doubt akechi is still kicking unless atlus retcons strikers as to why kasumi isnt there nor any mention of maruki or the 3rd samesterwhick kinda hoping is the case cause royal is the definitive edition of p5 I liked him in og p5 but royal made him my favorite character out of the whole series which isnt saying much cause only played persona 5 4 and like half of 3 lol but still
Akechi was my favorite character in vanilla, so I was thoroughly offended every time people said they made him “better” in royal (because I thought he was great). ...Until I finally played it myself. I don’t even know WHY I liked vanilla Akechi anymore lol. 3rd Semester Akechi (and Robbie Daymond’s acting) outshined everything else.
I totally get that! I don't think he is particularly bad in vanilla P5 by any measure but I think royal just gave us more of what was so great about him!
I always thought of them like L and Light from death note, always talking about their justice and the whole dynamic of them trying to one up and beat each other
The best part is that unlike Light and L which required a gambit of giving up the Death Note and therefore the Light/L interactions are halted for the Yotsuba arc, with Joker/Akechi they still maintain the same interaction and contrive a very good reason as to why the harasser Akechi would team up with the Phantom Thieves.
I really liked this video, I’m a huge Aketchi fan and his rivalry with Joker. The showtime with Joker and how even in the base game, Yaldaboath basically pitted them together to test which of the two wild card’s methods would come out on top (Joker and power through confidants and Aketchi’s power through himself) shows that they were clearly meant to be opposite sides of the same coin. All of his confidant ranks were amazing and the promise of the duel and how Joker still has that glove after the ending gave me that hope for Aketchi. This was a great explanation on why Aketchi is so popular and why he got even better in Royal. I subbed immediately after watching this.
So many great points here. What hits closest to home for me (besides you pointing out that there is good in Akechi, same as there is bad in Joker - like hell YES, neither character is as black and white as they may seem), but also how you said that characters like Akechi matter so much in media. You don't have to like him, or forgive him, but you can understand his damage. Personally, he's a character who hit a little too close to home for me, which is to say, I relate to some of his uglier traits, i.e his envy and his bitterness and his desire to be wanted, to feel worth something through external validation. It's easy to demonise characters like this, but I think it's so much more important NOT to vilify feelings as ubiquitous as jealousy for example, because it's something we all go through at some point in our lives, some more than others, of course. We don't all go around killing people, but it's upto our media to take these notions to their extremes and explore them accordingly, so that we might be able to take something about ourselves away from them. In my opinion, we should be able to talk about these uncomfortable and terrible aspects of the human condition, so that we may be able to learn to live with them, as opposed to shunning them. I don't know if any of that makes sense, either way, thank you for the video!
"You and I are opposite sides of the same coin. When we face each other, we can finally see our true selves. There may be a resemblance, but we never face the same direction." -Larry "Pixy" Foulke
Fun fact but apparently Akechi was going to have his own palace I believe after Sae's palace but it got scrapped I'm not sure whether it was for time or actually for story
i am thinking if it was an actual thing. it was more likely mostly for time reasons and the since palace owners can gain personas so they could explore acechi character from his palace.
It probably collided too much with his planned appearance at Shido's palace. They could've had Akechi prevent the Phantom Thieves from stealing his treasure, and Akechi retaliates against them at Shido's palace. From a narrative standpoint though, that entire segment would feel like a waste of time. Would definitely be interesting to see a Persona-user's palace though.
I find it interesting how not a lot of people draw conclusions between Akechi Sumire and Akira/Ren(Akira from this point forward). All 3 in one form or another had been manipulated through the entirety of persona 5. Akechi with Shido, Sumire with Maruki, Akira with Yalda. In SMT proper there's the alignment system Law, Neutral, Chaos. Which ever one of the 3 you want to put into each alignment is up to you(For me anyway Sumire is law, Akira is Neutral, Akechi is chaos). In P5 it was a clear Akechi is Law(however bad that was implemented) Akira is chaos and their whole power from self and friendship yada yada. Along with that each one took up a new persona(haha), Akechi the detective Prince, Kasumi the daughter that surived, Akira the Joker. While there is no point for Sumire having the ability of the wild card, she does indirectly get assistance by a god like being to awaken her persona by the person who took over Yalda's throne.
Long before I started P5R, I knew he was a tragic villain, though I didn't know all of the details. As a result, I welcomed him with open arms right from the beginning. I do really like him and have even joked about 'romancing' him.
Hey hey just wanted to say a sort of "keep up the good work !!" I enjoy watching your videos, and I just can't understand why you don't have more subscribers... but yeah, Akechi got severe back aches from how much he carried Royal LOL villains are always more interesting than the heroes arent they? There's always the question of motive, as well as what could've happened to push enough to commit wrongdoings... sometimes its a stupid world conquering type aspect, but I really liked what P5 did with Akechi. Although a little predictable betrayal wise, he wasn't a cookie cutter evil just to be evil character. That, and his 3rd semester dialogue made me laugh my ass off.
Loved the vid man! Keep up the great work! Also Akechi is my favorite character, everytime I replay through the game I just can't wait to have him on the team. His and Joker's combo attack is also my favorite.
Doubtful you'll see this on a 3 month old video, but this is my first time discovering your content. I think this video is incredible. Playing royal for the first time, I really did feel a connection and sense of relatability with akechi's circumstances and seeing his resolve to remove the mask he put on to please others made me change a lot of my views on how I live my life. While I pretty much knew everything in this video from thinking about him on my own terms, it's really nice to see a concise, clear vocalization on the morally grey and interesting nature and dynamic akechi and joker share. Absolutely earned the sub. Keep up the great work.
Barring the two new characters introduced in P5R, Akechi is certainly my favorite character in this game and is now by far my favorite male P5 character. Akechi was a character I had mixed feelings on in based P5 since it felt like they tried to replicate what they did with Adachi, but the execution just felt entirely sloppy since they just shove his whole backstory near the end of Shido’s palace and then he unceremoniously dies off-screen. Whereas P5R thankfully improved on him in spades by not only highlighting his rivalry and duality with Joker, but showing more of his unhinged side that we only got a taste of in base P5 and rather than redeeming him, have him instead embrace his more “feral” nature rather than continuing to live behind his detective prince facade. It shows that some characters can be flawed or not good people but still be interesting in their own right, hence why I’m more than glad that this game finally gave pancake boi the justice he deserves.👌🏽
I believe the reason both Joker and Akechi wanted to take down Maruki was because they hated seeing people manipulated by others who seem to have a "stronger" grip on society and they realized that without trials and hardships, people never learn and grow.
Furthermore akechi was tired from being controlled so much. He was controlled by yaldy, then shido, and then maruki. At the end of the game he was just tired of it all. And he accepted that the only way he can be free is for him to die.
I played both Persona 5 and Persona 5 Royal and the changes to Akechi's entire character were insane. It's like you said, he went from being someone who was an antagonist with morally grey motivations to just simply a morally grey character who is more so freakishly close to Joker. I feel like most people forget that Joker was completely fine in letting Ann choose Kamoshida's fate in the start even if it resulted in his death. Sure he's definitely a hero compared to someone like Akechi but he's not exactly some saint. It's also worth mentioning that Akechi was quite literally the only confidant in Royal who's confidant route didn't involve helping him solve a problem (aside from "Igor") Sure there was the whole promise to take down Shido, but even so the thieves were going to do that anyway, promise or not. It was refreshing in a way because it felt we were just trying to get to know Akechi and unveil what was beneath that mask in all honesty. I find it odd that not even Yoshizawa's confidant was structured like that, or any other potential romantic confidant. I don't really have a strong opinion on the "Akechi should have been romanceable" argument but literal attempted murder aside, his confidant being the only one structured like that even compared to potential romance ones is strange.
This video was great, but just FYI Akechi is ALIVE. (I say this because of a lot of comments) He didn't actually die, but Maruki freed him from the repercussions of his actions so he could start again. The game never states he dies, they dodge the subject with the whole "you will go back to.." and he says he doesn't remember what happened. But we know Maruki only changed things the day AFTER the final fight with Yaldaboth and he showed up that very night, being alive. The biggest change occurred when people suddenly set him free when he got arrested. He also shows up at the train station if you completed certain confidants. Plus, there was a scene that was pulled out, like a bunch of other stuff, that took place in a fully modeled and drawn place where he was supposed to be rehabilitating and he'd also support joker on his release, like other confidants do. I think it's clear he WILL return next game in some way. Atlus has realized how much of an interesting character he is and how much people want to see him, that's why they made Royal. Plus, Joker's still holding onto his glove and they haven't had their proper fight. So I'm excited to see what comes next!
I do personally agree with you that Akechi is most likely alive! I've seen those cutscenes and played through P5 & P5R a combined total of 3 times, however the game does leave things intentionally ambiguous so I think that everyone is allowed to come to their own conclusion on the matter. While I personally believe he lived I can see why others wouldn't and there is plenty of evidence to support both outcomes. But regardless of whether we think Akechi lives or dies I think everyone can agree that Akechi is EASILY one of the most fascinating characters in the game and his open ended conclusion only makes him more interesting to talk about and examine! I would love to see more of him in the future and I hope Atlus gives us more characters like him and Maruki in the future!
I think it's fair for people to hate Akechi for what he's done, and I'm not justifying his actions, but it's clear that his mind is broken from what has happened in the past. As someone who has been abandoned by my own father, I think how he acts makes a lot of sense. Hiding your pain in the public eye, keeping your weaknesses/issues hidden, putting up a mask/barrier, that's what I've had to do, which he definitely has done to. He hides everything from the public, he never shows his weaknesses, and tries to never break that mask near the public. I think it makes sense that he'd act the way he does. He might not be morally right in some regard, but that doesn't mean he's completely evil. For example, look to the 3rd semester, rejecting a reality that doesn't allow people to control their own fate. While yes, he does have some sadist qualities, he doesn't have the best moral compass, and it doesn't justify what he has done, that doesn't mean he can't change. The past is the past, and you can't change it.
He's literally the best character. In terms of gameplay and actual character/story. EDIT: Akechi is alive, there's a cut Royal cutscene(likely due to time restraints since its incomplete) where he was going on about how he owes Joker for his stubbornness on not giving up on him. Or something like that
Okay love the vid, and with the nature of the series, I think it's cool that akechi "dying****"" is talked about so genuinely, with so little eye-rolling. I think I wouldn't be able to resist including a small rant about akechi definitely never being dead, so it's refreshing that you take it just as the game presented it as, a hint.
This damn guy is the reason I love royal. And I wish I could relive the first time I saw this damn guy I loved his story in the original, and royal made me love it more. Not only due to his hidden agenda, but also his personality, his death, his inclusion in the 3rd semester, etc. I have never, ever felt a feeling so strong until royals 3rd semester. I love the 3 personas he has, the new confidant and Jokers relationship with Akechi is really interesting. I really love the duality between the two but also his true nature. Seriously, he's the best character in royal More info: Society does feel like it hates you, and i think Akechi was a massive victim because of it. We've all seen it. Most ignore that, and the people who ignore these problems dont help, they hurt. When you're ignored its as if society tries to put you down. I think his downward spiral into insanity makes sense. If i had the same experience, i would probably have the same thing to me. Anyone can be insane, unhinged, crazy, even derranged. I personally feel that his motivations maybe quite terrible, but its not his fault. Its not his fault for being this type of person. Thats why in the 3rd semester i felt so much despair. I wanted him to at least survive until the final boss. Hes so interesting. And almost everything about him is amazing. His va, story, power, personas, you name it. This character is the definition of uno reverse: Unpopular at first, fan favourite in royal. What a WILD CARD. I dont feel sympathy for him, but its hard not to.
Akechi was my favorite character in P5 and after playing through P5R on ps4 on release and recently on game pass he’s come to be probably my favorite video game character ever. Everything about him is peak writing, awkward moments, confidant story, personas, pancakes, all of it is peak.
Really good video, i really enjoyed base persona 5 and royal and was glad to see Akechi get more screentime and get more developed throughout royal. Glad there are other people that dont hate him and think he is entirely evil
Ok heres the thing. I agree with you about nearly everything except the "Akechi may not be a good person" thing. My take on it is that Akechi isn't a nice person; but being a nice person and being a good person are not the same thing and are not exclusive to eachother. While Akechi is obsessive, dark and often lead to a fault by his morals & motivations, in the end he went against Maruki with the full intention of defeating him knowing full well that he would die (again) if he succeeded. Which he stated in the game that he would fight Maruki even if Joker & CO decided not to. I believe this shows him to be an extremely determined & principled man - not to mention extremely courageous and (in my eyes) has the capability for selflessness. Selflessness in that he was willing and determined to do something that he knew would kill him just so he could restore something that would not benefit him (bc he was already dead) So not a nice/kind person, but a brave, principled man with unmalleable convictions. Which is what I'd call a good person. Ok rant over.
I think the opposite actually. He wanted to die not because he wanted to save others but because he himself didn’t want to be controlled by anyone. I don’t think akechi truly cares about anyone in this world. He just wants to do what he wants with his life.
Maybe it's a stretch, but both Robin Hood and Loki represent characters that can easily be heroic or villainous depending on the interpretation. Robin Hood, for example, might be romanticized into a folk hero saving the poor, but he was also a staunch loyalist to Richard the Lionheart, a legendary commander, but an admittedly incompetent king. He terrorized those who dared support King John, and reveled in banditry and debauchery when it was convenient. King John was a mediocre king as well, but the narrative isn't black and white like the Disney movie likes to paint it as. Loki in mythology is credited for equal amounts of good and bad. He revels in chaos and trickery, to the benefit, and detriment, of the gods. The comics romanticized him as a nuanced anti villain, even a hero in the right circumstances. At the same time though, he's also a straight up villain. So while Robin Hood and Loki can be seen as two unrelated sides of a coin Akechi uses to face his conflicts, I find it fascinating to see how they relate as legends who benefit from the one wielding the pen at the time.
Okay content itself aside, literally just the wording and structure of this analysis is fucking phenomenal man. I hope your channel eventually gets the recognition it deserves
While I loved akechi in the first game he was the most 1 dimension party member in the game I feel like we need more time with goro and the extra semester and social link/confidant helped me understand him and how his thought process works a lot more
Boop,just here to say I’m really enjoying your content,I’ve been binging your persona videos and I think their really good.there well thought and the way you speak I can tell you care as well as having a passion for your videos and I’m cheering you on.stay safe!
THIS to me is what I wanted to see in the OG game(kind of) instead of forgiving him for his actions like it seems the persona crew did in the OG persona 5, they should clash while working at their end game. not every character needs forgiveness for them to be great. just look at Akecki's fan base I'm sure they know what kind of person he is and what he's done but they still love him all the same, to me personally the when he was dead in the OG persona 5 game and the gang felt bad for him I was kind of confused, taking everyone else out of the Question shouldn't people like joker, haru and futaba have a input on the matter? anyway I really like the video, it's interesting hearing other peoples insight on characters. I'll sub and leave a like, keep up the good work.
Thanks for the kind feedback I really appreciate it! Also I totally agree! Akechi is a super interesting character no matter how you cut it and I think Royal just really made every aspect of his personal story even better!
Even if Akechi hadn't been the villain and got the treatment of the average party member, I still think he would be one of the most dynamic, fleshed out, and loved characters. Even before his reveal, he is open to an extent about how he hates Joker and why, and how he respects him too. There is no other party member in Personas 3-5 that has ever had a dynamic this believable and real. If he weren't corrupt, he would still yearn for that recognition and the excuse to be condescending to everyone around him, but he can't fully do that around Ren. In 3-5, with the exception of early Junpei, everyone looks up to the protagonist since he is a good leader and the most reliable in combat, and they accept that and ultimately blindly trust him. Makoto goes against the wishes of the party and sacrifices himself. Yu can become an accomplice, and the party would never suspect him. But with Ren, Akechi is the only party member to ever be open about his distaste (besides maybe Makoto before stealing Kaneshiro's heart, before she's reassured) with any decision and open about his desire to surpass the leader. He is so disappointed when Ren chooses to live in the false reality, and expresses such. Akechi ultimately accepts that Joker is stronger, but he nonetheless constantly keeps Ren under pressure because he expects a lot out of him. If anyone is going to be better than Akechi, they better do a darn good job at it. Gosh I love this character
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I know it's not technically pronounced 'royale' but in my opinion it just sounds far better (pronouncing it as royal just feels very odd) so I pronounce it that way. Either way though I'm glad you liked it and I hope I can continue to make good stuff for you guys to enjoy!
One day I try to think about the implications of Akeshi having two personas, and is a interesting point because, well both personas are his true persona, I don't think goro was lying to the phantom thieves, when using Robin hood, probably Robin hood is that "light in darkness" you mention in the video. I hope I make understand what I'm trying to say.
Yo akechi went from my being a character I hated to being a character I love behind ren and ann I especially love him in royal in the 3rd semester with his cold attitude
As someone with professionally diagnosed BPD, I think Akechi has a lot of BPD traits and possibly has it as well, although in America it isn’t really diagnosed until you’re an adult (I was diagnosed at 20 despite having traits in my adolescence) so he probably wouldn’t have an actual diagnosis, idk how it works in Japan though. Im not saying this to excuse his actions but I think it adds to his character and provides additional perspectives.
I am glad that the staff gave a lot of Depth to Akechi in the 3rd semester since I remember not getting what people liked so much about him in the original Persona 5 because he didn't have a lot of scenes for me to care about him. But in Royal where I get to spend more time with him & in the 3rd semester getting to know the real Akechi made me appreciate him a lot he reminds me of Adachi in a sense but he actually feels bad for what he did even if he never admits it to the group. Since I like to believe Akechi acts crazy whenever he is fighting with the team during the 3rd semester to get the group to not really like him or want to forgive him which they shouldn't someone like him shouldn't be forgiven he has done so much evil shit over the years & even killed the parents of Haru & Futaba which I find kind of noble it really shows he feels bad for what he did when he was a "Puppet" for Shido. Also I think his Persona being Loki shows that he was a cursed child he was put in bad circumstances but unlike Joker he didn't have anyone to support him or have the ability to move on he was always stuck in the past wanting to show the world that he wasn't a failure like his father said he was, wanting people to love him since he didn't have a mother or father to give him some & lastly he wanted to move on eventually after getting rid of his father. But sadly he didn't achieve any of those sadly eventually dying at a palace after a fight with the people who he was envious of & dying to a group of shadows. The only reality where he had this option was a fake one & it was one forced upon him by Maruki rather than him earning it which he didn't want even fighting against knowing that this would mean things would go back to how they were with him being dead.
Great video! Love your analysis, good research and execution II was interested in your interptitation of Joker, no surprise that in game he`s just an avatar for player, but yet it seems like you grasped a little bit of his personality\ideals\morals which is quite interesting
Yeah no I think Joker is a really interesting protagonist as he is mostly silent and a blank slate but at the same time his morals/values are represented through the actions he takes in the story! I really love that subtle aspect to Joker and I think it makes him really appealing (at least to me lol)!
Goro is my favorite. I didn’t like him at first, however after really taking time to think about his tragic backstory he started growing on me. He just needed 1 good friend in his life and he would’ve been good.
I see people saying No more What ifs is like Akechi’s beneath the mask (which is cool to think about but lyrics are inconsistent with him in general) But If so, the line “if I am the fool or what not” really fits really well with everything and the points 5:55 onward, and he is a trickster as well but he’s still not the fool unlike joker
I thought him being the traitor was so obvious. The moment when he asked if we are talking about Pancakes, when it was only Morgana who talked about it, made it very obvious that he had knowledge of the Metaverse and must have also awakened a persona or else he would not hear Morgana speak.
This basically ruined the entire twist, besides the fact it also did the bad story telling trope of "It is the new character you just got!" which made it so obvious especially since if I recall you could build a bond with him before then. For what is supposed to be a major twist it was so obvious and it made me call who the final boss was. Because if they are being so obvious then there is only one possible character it could be as it is someone you'd """never expect""" after 3 and 4 but we also had no one "new" introduced to fill that role. Only a new VA. It made perfect sense and was the perfect time for said twist. P5 while conceptually good pulls the most obvious twist far too often and gives it away far too early.
700th Like! Also, I just wanted to say how much I LOVED your explanation of Joker and Akechi's dynamic/friendship/rivalry/whatever you wanna call it. When I saw the thumbnail I immediately thought "Merlin and Arthur from BBC's 'Merlin.'" Honestly, I love characters that have the "two sides of the same coin" dynamic. It's always seems to give each respective story SO much complexity. Same with tragic anti-hero characters like Akechi. Even from the first time I saw the gameplay and Akechi's betrayal, I couldn't really see him as the *villain.* I mean yeah, he's definitely not clear-cut 'good,' but he's not entirely evil. He reminds me a lot of the main antagonist(not villain, but antagonist) from the anime series "Yona of the Dawn," named Soo-Won. **Spoilers** Soo-Won killed Yona's father, King Il, and usurped the throne. Even though he was childhood friends with Yona and her bodyguard Hak, he still did it. At first, he's seems like a ruthless monster(and, I mean, he is still ruthless), but as the series goes on, it becomes clear what Soo-Won's intentions are. He didn't usurp the throne because he wanted to be kingor simply because he hated King Il; he did it because the kingdom was weakening, and he wanted to strengthen it and defend it from surrounding countries. Yona's goals, developed over the series, meet a similar conclusion. While Soo-wan's method is more political and in the light of day, Yona takes the more rebel-route. She works behind the scenes, going out and dealing with bandits and corruption with direct force. Sorry, kinda went off on a rant about a different fandom that has nothing to do with Persona 5. I just love complex characters like Akechi and Soo-won! 😊😊😊😊
i think akechi is alive and will return in another game joker might return as well because at the end of royal you see the mask joker in the window. both character were really poplar and atlus knows this
You know one thing a want to say about the "good" ending aka the bad ending is that the decision to say yes or no is the true test of your friendship with him if you say yes to marukis offer it proves that disregarded your friend / rivals opinion so you could have the idealized version of him in your head and it proves that you didn't care for akechi but the akechi in your head and in the true good ending you respect his wishes even if you know it will kill him and one other thing about akechi's fuishion persona fits him perfectly I think that he is a bad person and a trickster but he also triks himself because I think that he wanted even if it was in the deepest darkest corners in his mind he wanted to be a hero but he new what he was and he wanted adnolagement / the deth of shido so badly that he just couldn't turn around and give up and you kind of see this in his rank 7 he right the is doing 2 things accepting that he can't be friends with Ren and accomplish his goal and to see if he has the ability to catch up with him but in a true sense I think akechi truly is a trickster a deceiver and a terrible person but what lies within him is is a bad person who can and will be a hero when he is blinded
I didn’t care for Akechi in the original game but loved him in Royal. Spending more time with his real self just made the difference in my opinion of him.
I totally agree! His updated confidant makes a world of difference for his character!
I actually liked him even in the original too. Every time we spoke it felt really cool. But not as good as in royal that’s for sure
That’s meereeeeeeeee
I liked him in the original version too. But I suspect it;s because I have some social trauma similar to Akechi so I could pick up on the hints and his perspective that, to be blunt, you can't understand unless you've Been Through Shit.
I have to imagine spending time with him in an actual confidant helped too, even if it's time spent with a false 'persona'.
Comments like these make me glad I never got to play the original all those years ago.
In terms of what him and Joker agree on I feel you missed a bit of a crucial detail. It's not just that they both agree that Maruki must be stopped, it's that they both agree that a reality where you have no true free will is one not worth living in. Joker expressed this in the base game by rejecting Yaldabaoth the god of control, and Akechi expressed this by rejecting Maruki knowing full well that he would cease to exist if they win. It ties together perfectly with the game's overarching themes of free will and rebellion and is the ultimate thing that makes their views parallel.
I totally agree with this! That was certainly something I meant to explore a little further but I ended up taking the script in a different direction because I kept going off topic into that moral question which I felt was distracting from my point. However I think I could have at least touched on it. In the future I definitely want to explore that theme in a bit more detail as I think it is a really interesting moral question pose by the game!
Btw pun intended with worth living for cause you know Akechi just died.
They also don't share a voice actor for once
there is only one true living God and that is Jesus Christ!
Which I find weird that you can pick to just accept Maruki's reality & have him control the world even if it's with good intentions.
I think it might be worth noting that Akechi’s ultimate persona, Hereward, fuses both elements of Robinhood and Loki, thematically conveying the resolution of Akechi’s inner conflict.
I found it odd Hereward stems more from Robin Hood in terms of lore than Loki. It could be coincidence, but despite some claims, I don't think Robin Hood was ever a fake persona. I saw it as the potential for what he could have been, and perhaps with the superhero motif, his initial symbol of hope, but as he became more jaded and somewhat insane, he developed Loki for his means.
@@naos8116 I dig this interpretation. I think Hereward coveys moral ambiguity but a strong sense of justice.
@@naos8116 I personally headcanon Robin Hood was his original Persona and Loki was his second once he made a bond with Shido.
@@IceQueen975 That's not even a head canon that's literally what happened in the story lol
@@naos8116 I believe the reason why is because remember when futaba said Robin Hood is for his lies and Loki is for his hatred i believe is because Robin Hood is supposed to be how he looks like but loki is like how he acts like that’s why hereward looks more like Robin hood
Akechi literally says he hates Joker for them were both hurt by Shido, stripped of the happy life they could have had, and yet Joker could get over it, he found a new life and for a while forgot about Shido; while Akechi never could, so much that his main persona is Loki, the cursed child.
Not just that Joker was living better off than he was despite Akechi being a "Detective", super popular in the media & even was in the police at a young age. Yet his father didn't acknowledge him, he had no real friends to support him & he was just alone working very hard to prove that he wasn't a mistake that he had some worth in the world. Meanwhile you have Joker who is someone with a criminal record & he arrives in a city he isn't familiar with & doesn't know anyone in it yet is somehow able to make many supportive friends during his year stay that would vouch for him to be released from jail, freaked out over the fact that he might have died & all saw him off on his final day.
That's mainly what's bugging him how could someone like him have something Akechi has been striving for years to get people to like him, to show the world he is worth something & having the will to move on despite life throwing them into a bad situation. It's kinda sad the only time we ever see the Akechi he wants to be badly is if you pick the bad ending where Maruki controls the Universe since we know this isn't him being genuine.
OMG
NEVER SAW IT THAT WAY
One thing I like about how Akechi is handled in Royal is the fact that the game doesn’t act as an apologist to his behavior. There are too many instances in media, where an anti-hero’s actions far outweigh the good they might be trying to do, but the media portraying them still tries to frame their actions as wholly justified. God of War 3 being the most egregious example I can think of, off the top of my head. But in Persona 5 Royal, the game doesn’t try to sweep Akechi’s crimes under the rug and hope the player ignores them. Instead, they double down on his carnal traits, reaffirming us that yeah, he’s still a huge prick. But he’s a prick you’re in an uneasy alliance with. Even the other Phantom Thieves show distrust towards him. And that’s a good thing, because any real person in their shoes would do the same.
This is one of my favorite aspects of the third semester! My first time playing through the new stuff in royal I was worried that Akechi was just going to magically be a good guy now, but much to my surprise the leaned HARD into his sadistic side!
@@3Waifu Ah. My favorite aspect of it was Maruki himself. His philosophy, his role in the story, his kind and compassionate personality, all of it. It’s why I consider him a full-fledged hero, and personally look up to him, as the kind of person I aspire to be.
@@blueshadeseraphim6926 If you like Maruki, you are definitely going to like todays video!
@@3Waifu Oh~ You have my attention. I think I’ll go check it out.
Stfu it should always be justified
funny thing is after Akechi gets into his crass psychopathic self, i played Q2 and immediately felt disturbed when Akechi was still his goody two-shoes self
Dying changes people lmao.
Also, that was Akechi divorced from his problems. If there was any legitimate goodness In Akechi, it would show up where you have been sucked into another Metaverse created by a god who thinks they are solving trauma by traumadumping on the watchers and you can’t go back until said misguided god is toppled.
Also, given Royal reveals Akechi is not for those determining his fate, he would not approve of the sad fate to the moviegoers in Enlil’s theaters either.
Playing base Persona 5, Akechi still ended up being my favorite character in the end. His outbursts and monologues in Shidos palace were so heavy and hurtful really I couldn't help but see what he was really saying before his sacrifice, shout out to Robbie just nailing the role. When I saw the trailers with Akechi being alive in Royal I freaked out but it became all so clear as to why once I saw the new story arc and manual confidant, he ended up getting more of what he needed as a character. The more in depth connection with Joker and influence on the player changed how so many people thought of him in the end, I had felt satisfaction hearing more people appreciate his time within the narrative of course. I'd also like to point out the events of rank 8 in Goro's confidant is absolutely perfect I will never stop going back just to watch it again.
Yusuke is the best just because he got off the train one station early to save money.
Just a minor detail,
Akechi's confidant is not required to reach the true ending. MAXing his confidant gives you an extra scene at the end of the game, but it is not required to experience the 3rd semester.
Interesting... I have some mixed feelings abt this because without reaching Rank 8 I'd assume that Joker's relationship with Akechi is not strong enough to warrant his wish for Akechi's existence
I thoroughly enjoyed Akechi in Royal. His confidant makes him much more interesting and even made me ponder what would happen if he and Joker formed a true partnership discreet from the Phantom Thieves. The game made me want that. It made me feel sad for this callous asshole...
I like to think that real Akechi is the guy who pretty much says what others might be thinking, but are too afraid to say, and DARES them to argue against it.
This character will always live rent free in people's mind and i must applaud that
Both him and Maruki occupy far too much of my mind at all times lol
tbh, it's shown countless times through the series that a wildcard is strong because of the bonds they share. If Akechi did bother to make friendship with more people, perhaps he would be stronger than Joker.
Given that he's able to take on the Phantom Thieves all by himself, I'd say that he's much stronger than Joker before he faced Yaldaboah.
@@masterchiefpettyofficerspa3646 You say that until Hassou Tobi
I have this game
ok
He has that game
Yo, same!
literally the definition of a comment that just exists for the algorhythm ... or ×_×..
Yes
I didn't like Akechi until Royal won me over with his character. My problem with Akechi was They didn't give him enough time to developed or screentime to Akechi in OG P5. You see very little of him in Vanilla Version. Originally Akechi was going to have somekind redemption arc for OG P5, but it was cut, due to development problems. I think Altus knew it was a mistake and try to fix Akechi's Story, especially He's a fan favorite character and very popular with Japanese people. In my opinion, it was amazing for what they did to Akechi. His confidant is one of best in the game. And I love it's full of foreshadowing, which hints to future events and Akechi's true nature. Everytime you continues Akechi's confidant, his mask is slowly spilling off mask. Also Robbie Diamond was Godlike as Akechi in Third Semester. Thanks to his over the top crazy voice acting, which made Akechi very unforgettable and funny in Third Semester.
Another Similarity between Joker and Akechi's Personas is that in previous persona games Loki has been a persona of the Fool Arcana, just like Arsene. Even being the ultimate of the Fool in P4. Loki and Arsene/Satanael are even similar in the games' lore as well as the mythology's lore
I guess we gotta wait for Strikers Royal to see him, huh?
Lol right?
Wow, if they did that it would be wonderful.
Sadly no. Strikers specifically mentions Maruki's Palace when you're heading to the final Jail, so the team making Strikers knew about the events of the third semester and chose to leave out bestgirl and skechyakechi
@@TheTrueDiablix well that sucks.
@@matmil5 I know :( I wish they'd make bestgirl and skechyakechi DLC for it but the game's been out too long in japan with no sign of any dlc apart from the soundtrack
Something I really liked about this arc is that most of the time when villains/anti heroes get redeemed or join the good guys they lose their edge and become less interesting and exciting which is why a lot of the time I don't like redemption stories and wish characters stayed an Antagonist. That doesn't happen with Akechi. Part of this is because he doesn't have a redemption story but his goals are aligned with Joker's. Like you mentioned we get to see the real unfiltered Akechi. And he doesn't even necessarily become a good person, he's still Akechi and shows no sign of regretting his actions. But regardless of not having a redemption story his actions are worthy of respect.
It's all really well done and doesn't lose the core of what makes Akechi interesting and exciting and they even expand further and make him more interesting.
If you haven't seen it already I recommend checking out my first video on persona! I touch on this topic specifically there and echo your sentiment!
I always liked the way the game conveyed that Akechi really does care for Joker, even despite all of their differences. Outside of the obvious, like important confidant interactions and the boss fight, (where the game is very clear about how important Joker is to him) he is always pleasantly surprised by the way Joker acts in a very genuine way, and clearly loves speaking to him, even in the side interactions. Him "flirting" with Joker is kind of a meme, but oftentimes it is just him uncharacteristically worrying about or being open to Joker, which is again on the point that Joker matters to him (not to mention that plenty of their interactions are _definitely_ intended to be interpreted as flirting, by both Akechi and the writers.) I know you talk about it in the video, I just like leaving long comments about unimportant things. I would honestly watch a whole video about just Akechi's interactions with Joker. Anyways, keep up the awesome work, I'm glad I found this hidden gem of a channel!
I swear he could have easily used a Goho-M in shido's palace
For some reason only protagonist and his team can use items in Persona
More on the possibility of akechi truly being alive, on the last day of the game when you’re saying your goodbyes, you can talk to the guy at the jazz club. He’ll ask about Akechi and address how he’s never seen him with someone else before going to the jazz club with you, and he’ll ask if he’s ok. Jokers little thought bubble is “but he’s already...” and then he reaches into his pocket to find Akechi’s glove. There’s another thought bubble that goes something like how the deal hasn’t ended yet, alluding that joker hasn’t seen the last of Akechi. HEAVILY implies that he’s still out there, not to mention they really never reached a proper end to their deal, besides in the bad ending where Akechi angrily calls it off.
Title: Persona 5 royal most interesting character
me: where is maruki
Jokes aside royal did really made his character better
Akechi is tied to Joker’s character development. The only reason Akechi exists in the third semester is because Joker regretted being unable to help someone so similar to him. Joker is defined by his character arc of helping people: trying to help the lady at the beginning of the game, Ann, Ryuji, Makoto, Yusuke, Futaba, Haru, Morgana, Akechi, most confidants, etc... He is able to do so successfully in every case but Akechi’s, someone with whom he was both very close and could relate to in a personal sense. Joker is held back by his desire to help Akechi and in choosing to fight Maruki, Joker’s final moment of hesitation is in regards to his friend disappearing. Even in spite of this he eventually decides that Maruki must be stopped because of his differing views on what the world should be. Upon defeating Maruki, you destroy the metaverse and the remainder of Joker’s power as a trickster, thereby bringing him down to the level of an average human: he is no longer special, just one of many. The protagonist acts more reserved as Akira and more confidently as Joker: he has the strength to help people, but to save the world in the end, he must give up his power. The train window scene offers a glimpse into Akira’s heart, showing his desires. This is evident by the 3rd semester like tint present when you see both Akechi and Joker through the train window. When Akira closes the blinds, it signifies that he has decided to accept that Akechi is gone and that he is no longer a phantom thief.
You’re such an underrated youtuber, man. you make great content. Also, Akechi is so great. i love how they expanded on him and made him an actual confidant you could hangout with.
Thanks for the kind feedback! I totally agree that Akechi works much better in P5R than he did in P5. having a true confidant really makes a world of difference when fleshing out a character and get the audience invested in them!
@@3Waifu Mhm!
Third Semester Akechi is just an imaginary friend ...
Yeah basically
I mean he's the real akechi, so he's not imaginary
@Nobody Why did Akechi not disappear as Wakaba and Haru's father did though?
@@naos8116 Cause Joker never truly accepted the fact that pancake boy is dead... Obviously he could escape and survives Shido's Palace and that's why believing in that is a requisite to get into the third Semester.
@@alberthcuayla1587 Joker actually believed he was dead, hence why Maruki was able to make Joker hesitate using Akechi as a bargaining chip.
As a Detective Prince, Akechi had navigator lines programmed into the game. In the lines where he reprimands you for screwing up, his persona is slipping.
I've grown to feel bad about Akechi. In a way, he reminds me of Delita Heiral of Final Fantasy Tactics, albeit more ruthless. He is scheming to further his own goals, disposing of everything that goes against him. He took the long road, trying to get back at the man who ruined his life. His goal is understandable, but his methods leave to be desired.
I love how this was in my recommended. Small youtubers are making their way up. Also, Akechi is my favorite character.
So while ive been playing persona 5 strikers 99% of the time im thinking....."damn i miss akechi" the snarky remarks he could have in the game would be perfect timing also i just miss the rivalry between him and joker since royal is supposedly not canon i doubt akechi is still kicking unless atlus retcons strikers as to why kasumi isnt there nor any mention of maruki or the 3rd samesterwhick kinda hoping is the case cause royal is the definitive edition of p5
I liked him in og p5 but royal made him my favorite character out of the whole series which isnt saying much cause only played persona 5 4 and like half of 3 lol but still
Akechi was my favorite character in vanilla, so I was thoroughly offended every time people said they made him “better” in royal (because I thought he was great). ...Until I finally played it myself. I don’t even know WHY I liked vanilla Akechi anymore lol. 3rd Semester Akechi (and Robbie Daymond’s acting) outshined everything else.
I totally get that! I don't think he is particularly bad in vanilla P5 by any measure but I think royal just gave us more of what was so great about him!
i love acheki it jest took royal to make love him more
It's not that Vanilla Akechi is bad by any means, it's just that Royal Akechi is that great
I always thought of them like L and Light from death note, always talking about their justice and the whole dynamic of them trying to one up and beat each other
The best part is that unlike Light and L which required a gambit of giving up the Death Note and therefore the Light/L interactions are halted for the Yotsuba arc, with Joker/Akechi they still maintain the same interaction and contrive a very good reason as to why the harasser Akechi would team up with the Phantom Thieves.
Akechi even looks like Light😭
I really liked this video, I’m a huge Aketchi fan and his rivalry with Joker. The showtime with Joker and how even in the base game, Yaldaboath basically pitted them together to test which of the two wild card’s methods would come out on top (Joker and power through confidants and Aketchi’s power through himself) shows that they were clearly meant to be opposite sides of the same coin. All of his confidant ranks were amazing and the promise of the duel and how Joker still has that glove after the ending gave me that hope for Aketchi. This was a great explanation on why Aketchi is so popular and why he got even better in Royal. I subbed immediately after watching this.
So many great points here. What hits closest to home for me (besides you pointing out that there is good in Akechi, same as there is bad in Joker - like hell YES, neither character is as black and white as they may seem), but also how you said that characters like Akechi matter so much in media. You don't have to like him, or forgive him, but you can understand his damage. Personally, he's a character who hit a little too close to home for me, which is to say, I relate to some of his uglier traits, i.e his envy and his bitterness and his desire to be wanted, to feel worth something through external validation. It's easy to demonise characters like this, but I think it's so much more important NOT to vilify feelings as ubiquitous as jealousy for example, because it's something we all go through at some point in our lives, some more than others, of course. We don't all go around killing people, but it's upto our media to take these notions to their extremes and explore them accordingly, so that we might be able to take something about ourselves away from them. In my opinion, we should be able to talk about these uncomfortable and terrible aspects of the human condition, so that we may be able to learn to live with them, as opposed to shunning them. I don't know if any of that makes sense, either way, thank you for the video!
Really liked your take on this - just be interesting to relate to a character so complicated.
"You and I are opposite sides of the same coin. When we face each other, we can finally see our true selves. There may be a resemblance, but we never face the same direction."
-Larry "Pixy" Foulke
Fun fact but apparently Akechi was going to have his own palace I believe after Sae's palace but it got scrapped I'm not sure whether it was for time or actually for story
i am thinking if it was an actual thing. it was more likely mostly for time reasons and the since palace owners can gain personas so they could explore acechi character from his palace.
I'd throw away my life to see his palace, really unfortunately they didn't add it
It probably collided too much with his planned appearance at Shido's palace.
They could've had Akechi prevent the Phantom Thieves from stealing his treasure, and Akechi retaliates against them at Shido's palace. From a narrative standpoint though, that entire segment would feel like a waste of time. Would definitely be interesting to see a Persona-user's palace though.
I find it interesting how not a lot of people draw conclusions between Akechi Sumire and Akira/Ren(Akira from this point forward). All 3 in one form or another had been manipulated through the entirety of persona 5. Akechi with Shido, Sumire with Maruki, Akira with Yalda. In SMT proper there's the alignment system Law, Neutral, Chaos. Which ever one of the 3 you want to put into each alignment is up to you(For me anyway Sumire is law, Akira is Neutral, Akechi is chaos). In P5 it was a clear Akechi is Law(however bad that was implemented) Akira is chaos and their whole power from self and friendship yada yada. Along with that each one took up a new persona(haha), Akechi the detective Prince, Kasumi the daughter that surived, Akira the Joker. While there is no point for Sumire having the ability of the wild card, she does indirectly get assistance by a god like being to awaken her persona by the person who took over Yalda's throne.
Long before I started P5R, I knew he was a tragic villain, though I didn't know all of the details. As a result, I welcomed him with open arms right from the beginning.
I do really like him and have even joked about 'romancing' him.
Hey hey just wanted to say a sort of "keep up the good work !!" I enjoy watching your videos, and I just can't understand why you don't have more subscribers... but yeah, Akechi got severe back aches from how much he carried Royal LOL villains are always more interesting than the heroes arent they? There's always the question of motive, as well as what could've happened to push enough to commit wrongdoings... sometimes its a stupid world conquering type aspect, but I really liked what P5 did with Akechi. Although a little predictable betrayal wise, he wasn't a cookie cutter evil just to be evil character. That, and his 3rd semester dialogue made me laugh my ass off.
I 100% agree with this! Akechi is super interesting in Royal and is SO much better than he was in P5 thanks to his fleshed out confidant!
Loved the vid man! Keep up the great work! Also Akechi is my favorite character, everytime I replay through the game I just can't wait to have him on the team. His and Joker's combo attack is also my favorite.
I'm glad you liked the video! Also I totally agree! Akechi & Joker's combo attack is so sick!
i can't even being to say how happy i am to see people getting back to talking lots about my favourite boy :(
Doubtful you'll see this on a 3 month old video, but this is my first time discovering your content. I think this video is incredible. Playing royal for the first time, I really did feel a connection and sense of relatability with akechi's circumstances and seeing his resolve to remove the mask he put on to please others made me change a lot of my views on how I live my life. While I pretty much knew everything in this video from thinking about him on my own terms, it's really nice to see a concise, clear vocalization on the morally grey and interesting nature and dynamic akechi and joker share. Absolutely earned the sub. Keep up the great work.
Barring the two new characters introduced in P5R, Akechi is certainly my favorite character in this game and is now by far my favorite male P5 character. Akechi was a character I had mixed feelings on in based P5 since it felt like they tried to replicate what they did with Adachi, but the execution just felt entirely sloppy since they just shove his whole backstory near the end of Shido’s palace and then he unceremoniously dies off-screen.
Whereas P5R thankfully improved on him in spades by not only highlighting his rivalry and duality with Joker, but showing more of his unhinged side that we only got a taste of in base P5 and rather than redeeming him, have him instead embrace his more “feral” nature rather than continuing to live behind his detective prince facade. It shows that some characters can be flawed or not good people but still be interesting in their own right, hence why I’m more than glad that this game finally gave pancake boi the justice he deserves.👌🏽
I believe the reason both Joker and Akechi wanted to take down Maruki was because they hated seeing people manipulated by others who seem to have a "stronger" grip on society and they realized that without trials and hardships, people never learn and grow.
Furthermore akechi was tired from being controlled so much. He was controlled by yaldy, then shido, and then maruki. At the end of the game he was just tired of it all. And he accepted that the only way he can be free is for him to die.
I played both Persona 5 and Persona 5 Royal and the changes to Akechi's entire character were insane. It's like you said, he went from being someone who was an antagonist with morally grey motivations to just simply a morally grey character who is more so freakishly close to Joker. I feel like most people forget that Joker was completely fine in letting Ann choose Kamoshida's fate in the start even if it resulted in his death. Sure he's definitely a hero compared to someone like Akechi but he's not exactly some saint. It's also worth mentioning that Akechi was quite literally the only confidant in Royal who's confidant route didn't involve helping him solve a problem (aside from "Igor") Sure there was the whole promise to take down Shido, but even so the thieves were going to do that anyway, promise or not. It was refreshing in a way because it felt we were just trying to get to know Akechi and unveil what was beneath that mask in all honesty. I find it odd that not even Yoshizawa's confidant was structured like that, or any other potential romantic confidant. I don't really have a strong opinion on the "Akechi should have been romanceable" argument but literal attempted murder aside, his confidant being the only one structured like that even compared to potential romance ones is strange.
This video was great, but just FYI Akechi is ALIVE. (I say this because of a lot of comments) He didn't actually die, but Maruki freed him from the repercussions of his actions so he could start again.
The game never states he dies, they dodge the subject with the whole "you will go back to.." and he says he doesn't remember what happened. But we know Maruki only changed things the day AFTER the final fight with Yaldaboth and he showed up that very night, being alive. The biggest change occurred when people suddenly set him free when he got arrested.
He also shows up at the train station if you completed certain confidants. Plus, there was a scene that was pulled out, like a bunch of other stuff, that took place in a fully modeled and drawn place where he was supposed to be rehabilitating and he'd also support joker on his release, like other confidants do.
I think it's clear he WILL return next game in some way. Atlus has realized how much of an interesting character he is and how much people want to see him, that's why they made Royal. Plus, Joker's still holding onto his glove and they haven't had their proper fight.
So I'm excited to see what comes next!
I do personally agree with you that Akechi is most likely alive! I've seen those cutscenes and played through P5 & P5R a combined total of 3 times, however the game does leave things intentionally ambiguous so I think that everyone is allowed to come to their own conclusion on the matter. While I personally believe he lived I can see why others wouldn't and there is plenty of evidence to support both outcomes. But regardless of whether we think Akechi lives or dies I think everyone can agree that Akechi is EASILY one of the most fascinating characters in the game and his open ended conclusion only makes him more interesting to talk about and examine! I would love to see more of him in the future and I hope Atlus gives us more characters like him and Maruki in the future!
@@3Waifu 100% Agree. Thanks for the video and the response :)
Damn, you were right, I'm glad I stuck around for this one. Excellent video, you really really know your stuff.
Thanks for the kind feedback! I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it!
Really enjoyed this video. Got some new insight to the third semester content that I didn't catch on my first playthrough. Great job!
Royal is a fucking gem
Akechi would’ve had a Jail...
I am straight, but even I am gay for Akechi.
I think it's fair for people to hate Akechi for what he's done, and I'm not justifying his actions, but it's clear that his mind is broken from what has happened in the past. As someone who has been abandoned by my own father, I think how he acts makes a lot of sense. Hiding your pain in the public eye, keeping your weaknesses/issues hidden, putting up a mask/barrier, that's what I've had to do, which he definitely has done to. He hides everything from the public, he never shows his weaknesses, and tries to never break that mask near the public. I think it makes sense that he'd act the way he does. He might not be morally right in some regard, but that doesn't mean he's completely evil. For example, look to the 3rd semester, rejecting a reality that doesn't allow people to control their own fate. While yes, he does have some sadist qualities, he doesn't have the best moral compass, and it doesn't justify what he has done, that doesn't mean he can't change. The past is the past, and you can't change it.
He's literally the best character. In terms of gameplay and actual character/story.
EDIT: Akechi is alive, there's a cut Royal cutscene(likely due to time restraints since its incomplete) where he was going on about how he owes Joker for his stubbornness on not giving up on him. Or something like that
Glad to see another Akechi lover rise to the surface. Very nice short and sweet analysis great job!
Title: *exists*
Maruki: *"Am I a joke to you?"*
If you like Maruki stay tuned for this weeks video ;)
really cool analysis! i subscribed
just like persona series in general teaches, akechi's tragic past does not excuse him being a mass murderer.
Akechi’s character development in Royal is unparalleled
Okay love the vid, and with the nature of the series, I think it's cool that akechi "dying****"" is talked about so genuinely, with so little eye-rolling. I think I wouldn't be able to resist including a small rant about akechi definitely never being dead, so it's refreshing that you take it just as the game presented it as, a hint.
This damn guy is the reason I love royal. And I wish I could relive the first time I saw this damn guy
I loved his story in the original, and royal made me love it more.
Not only due to his hidden agenda, but also his personality, his death, his inclusion in the 3rd semester, etc.
I have never, ever felt a feeling so strong until royals 3rd semester. I love the 3 personas he has, the new confidant and Jokers relationship with Akechi is really interesting.
I really love the duality between the two but also his true nature. Seriously, he's the best character in royal
More info:
Society does feel like it hates you, and i think Akechi was a massive victim because of it. We've all seen it. Most ignore that, and the people who ignore these problems dont help, they hurt. When you're ignored its as if society tries to put you down. I think his downward spiral into insanity makes sense. If i had the same experience, i would probably have the same thing to me. Anyone can be insane, unhinged, crazy, even derranged.
I personally feel that his motivations maybe quite terrible, but its not his fault. Its not his fault for being this type of person.
Thats why in the 3rd semester i felt so much despair. I wanted him to at least survive until the final boss. Hes so interesting. And almost everything about him is amazing. His va, story, power, personas, you name it. This character is the definition of uno reverse:
Unpopular at first, fan favourite in royal. What a WILD CARD.
I dont feel sympathy for him, but its hard not to.
Akechi was my favorite character in P5 and after playing through P5R on ps4 on release and recently on game pass he’s come to be probably my favorite video game character ever. Everything about him is peak writing, awkward moments, confidant story, personas, pancakes, all of it is peak.
Really good video, i really enjoyed base persona 5 and royal and was glad to see Akechi get more screentime and get more developed throughout royal. Glad there are other people that dont hate him and think he is entirely evil
Ok heres the thing. I agree with you about nearly everything except the "Akechi may not be a good person" thing.
My take on it is that Akechi isn't a nice person; but being a nice person and being a good person are not the same thing and are not exclusive to eachother.
While Akechi is obsessive, dark and often lead to a fault by his morals & motivations, in the end he went against Maruki with the full intention of defeating him knowing full well that he would die (again) if he succeeded. Which he stated in the game that he would fight Maruki even if Joker & CO decided not to.
I believe this shows him to be an extremely determined & principled man - not to mention extremely courageous and (in my eyes) has the capability for selflessness. Selflessness in that he was willing and determined to do something that he knew would kill him just so he could restore something that would not benefit him (bc he was already dead)
So not a nice/kind person, but a brave, principled man with unmalleable convictions. Which is what I'd call a good person.
Ok rant over.
I think the opposite actually. He wanted to die not because he wanted to save others but because he himself didn’t want to be controlled by anyone.
I don’t think akechi truly cares about anyone in this world. He just wants to do what he wants with his life.
Maybe it's a stretch, but both Robin Hood and Loki represent characters that can easily be heroic or villainous depending on the interpretation.
Robin Hood, for example, might be romanticized into a folk hero saving the poor, but he was also a staunch loyalist to Richard the Lionheart, a legendary commander, but an admittedly incompetent king. He terrorized those who dared support King John, and reveled in banditry and debauchery when it was convenient. King John was a mediocre king as well, but the narrative isn't black and white like the Disney movie likes to paint it as.
Loki in mythology is credited for equal amounts of good and bad. He revels in chaos and trickery, to the benefit, and detriment, of the gods. The comics romanticized him as a nuanced anti villain, even a hero in the right circumstances. At the same time though, he's also a straight up villain.
So while Robin Hood and Loki can be seen as two unrelated sides of a coin Akechi uses to face his conflicts, I find it fascinating to see how they relate as legends who benefit from the one wielding the pen at the time.
Okay content itself aside, literally just the wording and structure of this analysis is fucking phenomenal man. I hope your channel eventually gets the recognition it deserves
While I loved akechi in the first game he was the most 1 dimension party member in the game I feel like we need more time with goro and the extra semester and social link/confidant helped me understand him and how his thought process works a lot more
Boop,just here to say I’m really enjoying your content,I’ve been binging your persona videos and I think their really good.there well thought and the way you speak I can tell you care as well as having a passion for your videos and I’m cheering you on.stay safe!
THIS to me is what I wanted to see in the OG game(kind of) instead of forgiving him for his actions like it seems the persona crew did in the OG persona 5, they should clash while working at their end game. not every character needs forgiveness for them to be great. just look at Akecki's fan base I'm sure they know what kind of person he is and what he's done but they still love him all the same, to me personally the when he was dead in the OG persona 5 game and the gang felt bad for him I was kind of confused, taking everyone else out of the Question shouldn't people like joker, haru and futaba have a input on the matter?
anyway I really like the video, it's interesting hearing other peoples insight on characters. I'll sub and leave a like, keep up the good work.
Thanks for the kind feedback I really appreciate it! Also I totally agree! Akechi is a super interesting character no matter how you cut it and I think Royal just really made every aspect of his personal story even better!
Loki’s design and body language was one of my favorites in the game.
Even if Akechi hadn't been the villain and got the treatment of the average party member, I still think he would be one of the most dynamic, fleshed out, and loved characters. Even before his reveal, he is open to an extent about how he hates Joker and why, and how he respects him too. There is no other party member in Personas 3-5 that has ever had a dynamic this believable and real. If he weren't corrupt, he would still yearn for that recognition and the excuse to be condescending to everyone around him, but he can't fully do that around Ren. In 3-5, with the exception of early Junpei, everyone looks up to the protagonist since he is a good leader and the most reliable in combat, and they accept that and ultimately blindly trust him. Makoto goes against the wishes of the party and sacrifices himself. Yu can become an accomplice, and the party would never suspect him. But with Ren, Akechi is the only party member to ever be open about his distaste (besides maybe Makoto before stealing Kaneshiro's heart, before she's reassured) with any decision and open about his desire to surpass the leader. He is so disappointed when Ren chooses to live in the false reality, and expresses such. Akechi ultimately accepts that Joker is stronger, but he nonetheless constantly keeps Ren under pressure because he expects a lot out of him. If anyone is going to be better than Akechi, they better do a darn good job at it. Gosh I love this character
I thoroughly enjoyed the video and really agreed with your points but one thing bothers me a bit
Royal isn't pronounced as royale
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I know it's not technically pronounced 'royale' but in my opinion it just sounds far better (pronouncing it as royal just feels very odd) so I pronounce it that way. Either way though I'm glad you liked it and I hope I can continue to make good stuff for you guys to enjoy!
i really wish you talked about akechis theme no more what ifs that song describes him so well and its such a banger
great video and analysis, I don't understand how you don't have more subs, but now you have one more
I think it was stated that Royal is the non canon version, which kind of sucks considering its final act and new characters were so good
Here before you blow up. Love the content keep it up!
Thanks so much! I'm happy you enjoyed it!
3Waifu: *Explains*
Me: *Mind Blown*
One day I try to think about the implications of Akeshi having two personas, and is a interesting point because, well both personas are his true persona, I don't think goro was lying to the phantom thieves, when using Robin hood, probably Robin hood is that "light in darkness" you mention in the video.
I hope I make understand what I'm trying to say.
Don't forget haru's screen time at 0:55
"... Develop a basic understanding ...."
*At the same time*
Uses the myriad truth on SHIKIUJI !! Where is the understanding dude !!!!
Haha the footage for this video was from my NG+ run so I was trying out Izanagi no Okami and his crazy overpowered moves
Yo akechi went from my being a character I hated to being a character I love behind ren and ann I especially love him in royal in the 3rd semester with his cold attitude
Akechi is the epitome of a broken person.
As someone with professionally diagnosed BPD, I think Akechi has a lot of BPD traits and possibly has it as well, although in America it isn’t really diagnosed until you’re an adult (I was diagnosed at 20 despite having traits in my adolescence) so he probably wouldn’t have an actual diagnosis, idk how it works in Japan though. Im not saying this to excuse his actions but I think it adds to his character and provides additional perspectives.
I am glad that the staff gave a lot of Depth to Akechi in the 3rd semester since I remember not getting what people liked so much about him in the original Persona 5 because he didn't have a lot of scenes for me to care about him. But in Royal where I get to spend more time with him & in the 3rd semester getting to know the real Akechi made me appreciate him a lot he reminds me of Adachi in a sense but he actually feels bad for what he did even if he never admits it to the group.
Since I like to believe Akechi acts crazy whenever he is fighting with the team during the 3rd semester to get the group to not really like him or want to forgive him which they shouldn't someone like him shouldn't be forgiven he has done so much evil shit over the years & even killed the parents of Haru & Futaba which I find kind of noble it really shows he feels bad for what he did when he was a "Puppet" for Shido.
Also I think his Persona being Loki shows that he was a cursed child he was put in bad circumstances but unlike Joker he didn't have anyone to support him or have the ability to move on he was always stuck in the past wanting to show the world that he wasn't a failure like his father said he was, wanting people to love him since he didn't have a mother or father to give him some & lastly he wanted to move on eventually after getting rid of his father. But sadly he didn't achieve any of those sadly eventually dying at a palace after a fight with the people who he was envious of & dying to a group of shadows.
The only reality where he had this option was a fake one & it was one forced upon him by Maruki rather than him earning it which he didn't want even fighting against knowing that this would mean things would go back to how they were with him being dead.
Great video! Love your analysis, good research and execution
II was interested in your interptitation of Joker, no surprise that in game he`s just an avatar for player, but yet it seems like you grasped a little bit of his personality\ideals\morals which is quite interesting
Yeah no I think Joker is a really interesting protagonist as he is mostly silent and a blank slate but at the same time his morals/values are represented through the actions he takes in the story! I really love that subtle aspect to Joker and I think it makes him really appealing (at least to me lol)!
Boy. They really did Akechi dirty in the original game. So I'm glad Royal made his character better.
I still think this game should have been DLC
Akechi made me think he was Light Yagami when he showed his true colors
Wish I could like this video a 100 times!
Great analysis! Fully agree.
i loved akechis character in vanilla but royal jus won me over all the way
Goro is my favorite. I didn’t like him at first, however after really taking time to think about his tragic backstory he started growing on me. He just needed 1 good friend in his life and he would’ve been good.
how the fuck does this man only 845 subs wtf, mans content is better than some youtubers with over 100k
What’s Wrong With The Title “Detective Prince”? The First One Wasn’t Really A Prince, And The Second Onr Wasn’t Really A Detective.
Shido ruined both Akechi and Jokers lives
Dude you are way too overpowered for Madarames museum 😂. You’re one shotting mini bosses out there
Pancakes are pretty good in my opinion
Akechi is my favorite character
I see people saying No more What ifs is like Akechi’s beneath the mask (which is cool to think about but lyrics are inconsistent with him in general)
But If so, the line “if I am the fool or what not” really fits really well with everything and the points 5:55 onward, and he is a trickster as well but he’s still not the fool unlike joker
I thought him being the traitor was so obvious. The moment when he asked if we are talking about Pancakes, when it was only Morgana who talked about it, made it very obvious that he had knowledge of the Metaverse and must have also awakened a persona or else he would not hear Morgana speak.
The twist is that the PT knew
This basically ruined the entire twist, besides the fact it also did the bad story telling trope of "It is the new character you just got!" which made it so obvious especially since if I recall you could build a bond with him before then.
For what is supposed to be a major twist it was so obvious and it made me call who the final boss was.
Because if they are being so obvious then there is only one possible character it could be as it is someone you'd """never expect""" after 3 and 4 but we also had no one "new" introduced to fill that role. Only a new VA. It made perfect sense and was the perfect time for said twist.
P5 while conceptually good pulls the most obvious twist far too often and gives it away far too early.
700th Like!
Also, I just wanted to say how much I LOVED your explanation of Joker and Akechi's dynamic/friendship/rivalry/whatever you wanna call it. When I saw the thumbnail I immediately thought "Merlin and Arthur from BBC's 'Merlin.'"
Honestly, I love characters that have the "two sides of the same coin" dynamic. It's always seems to give each respective story SO much complexity. Same with tragic anti-hero characters like Akechi.
Even from the first time I saw the gameplay and Akechi's betrayal, I couldn't really see him as the *villain.* I mean yeah, he's definitely not clear-cut 'good,' but he's not entirely evil. He reminds me a lot of the main antagonist(not villain, but antagonist) from the anime series "Yona of the Dawn," named Soo-Won. **Spoilers** Soo-Won killed Yona's father, King Il, and usurped the throne. Even though he was childhood friends with Yona and her bodyguard Hak, he still did it. At first, he's seems like a ruthless monster(and, I mean, he is still ruthless), but as the series goes on, it becomes clear what Soo-Won's intentions are.
He didn't usurp the throne because he wanted to be kingor simply because he hated King Il; he did it because the kingdom was weakening, and he wanted to strengthen it and defend it from surrounding countries. Yona's goals, developed over the series, meet a similar conclusion. While Soo-wan's method is more political and in the light of day, Yona takes the more rebel-route. She works behind the scenes, going out and dealing with bandits and corruption with direct force.
Sorry, kinda went off on a rant about a different fandom that has nothing to do with Persona 5. I just love complex characters like Akechi and Soo-won! 😊😊😊😊
Nice vid dude
i really liked Akechi as a rival for Joker
i think akechi is alive and will return in another game joker might return as well because at the end of royal you see the mask joker in the window. both character were really poplar and atlus knows this
You know one thing a want to say about the "good" ending aka the bad ending is that the decision to say yes or no is the true test of your friendship with him if you say yes to marukis offer it proves that disregarded your friend / rivals opinion so you could have the idealized version of him in your head and it proves that you didn't care for akechi but the akechi in your head and in the true good ending you respect his wishes even if you know it will kill him and one other thing about akechi's fuishion persona fits him perfectly I think that he is a bad person and a trickster but he also triks himself because I think that he wanted even if it was in the deepest darkest corners in his mind he wanted to be a hero but he new what he was and he wanted adnolagement / the deth of shido so badly that he just couldn't turn around and give up and you kind of see this in his rank 7 he right the is doing 2 things accepting that he can't be friends with Ren and accomplish his goal and to see if he has the ability to catch up with him but in a true sense I think akechi truly is a trickster a deceiver and a terrible person but what lies within him is is a bad person who can and will be a hero when he is blinded