Without math equations, I made a similar argument as riotsupercarver in the comments on your previous episode. "The increase of sidecut depth that results from increasing effective edge, given constant sidecut radius, is the result that effective edge tracing a larger length of circle, and thus more of that circle's curvature, but it does not change the circle itself (or, therefore, the sidecut radius, or the range of possible resultant turn radii)." Distinguishing between flex curve and sidecut curve is indeed useful. And, depending on flex, flex curve may or may not yield a tighter radius turn given different lengths and the same sidecut radius. But, *thank you* for making your excellent videos, for carefully correcting, and for helping us all think through the complexities of carving snowboard design.
@@sugarplumflyjelly yeah, I remember your comment. There were about three or four people commenting with that. He was the first and the one I went back and forth with forever…. So he really sparked the thought. That was a silly mistake, really. Seems so obvious now. Thanks for your comments!!
This video brings to mind the flex pattern of your Standa Cheater which allow the bending process to aid the side cut for those shorter tight turns. Additionally many riders don't consider overall flex patterns, I personally like a softer flex though the middle of the board to help me with pressure throughout the turn with a solid camber profile. Great Video thanks!
This is a good reason to have a look at the size charts when buying a new board! Just because the 146cm was the only one left on sale if you are 85kg its not going to have that stiff flex its advertising you will overpower the board and it goes the opposite as well if your 45kg trying to flex a 165cm mid flex board your going to have a workout on your hands and not a great experience
Great to see you back at it Lars. Just received my custom Donek board (160cm length, 30cm width) with a "variable" 7-10cm sidecut. I think you may have helped my understand how a sidecut can be variable depending on pressure of the press during a turn. Either way, great vid.
You are the goat man! I'm 5'11 with roughly 230 pounds, and I might be around 250 with boots and a suit! size 11.5 boots bought a board of 165 wide, and I am not sure if will be too big for me. but I like stability and confidence on the board. shorter boards I rode were too nimble and all but freaking unstable and came out of the carve very loose. since I'm a very heavy guy with a strong riding personality!
Im also 5,11 but only 190. I bought a 165X Never Summer Proto FR. My conclusion from watching lars and riding "outside of the spec sheet" myself, has been that the spec sheet applies less when it comes to carving. IMO its better to go bigger (which btw with your weight i think 165 is a good choice) then you might need because it gives you something to grow into. It all comes down to your technique and how much leverage you can put into the board. Don't overthink it ;)
There’s so much personal preference and ability level involved….. The absence of shorter wide boards forced me to always ride longer boards (to get the right width). So that’s what I’m used to. And I love the benefits of length!!! I’m not a freestyle guy, so as long as I can bend it, I go longer.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I got a Ride deepfake, almost got a burton hometown! because of u, I bought my biru! by the way my favorite carver so far...
I have also taken other riders boards and lay them on a table so they can see their effective edge and side cut offset to better understand where to allow ie use edging and pressure during a turn, basically what kind of board performance they are looking at overall.
Hallo Lars Du machst geniale Vireos zu meinem Lieblingsthema (Snowboarden). Könntest du mir kurz erklären was deiner Meinung nach der Unterschied zwischen effective edge, contact lenght und runnung lenght ist. Ich finde die verschiedenen Angaben bei verschiedenen Anbietern verwirrend. Denkst du das der Markt bei den verschiedenen Begriffen jeweils von den gleichen Eigenschaften oder den gleichen Specs reden? Liebe Grüsse
@@marco13ceo hi Marco! Effective Kante ist die Kantenlänge zwischen den breitesten Punkten deines Boards. Contact und Running length sind prinzipiell das gleiche, aber manche Hersteller benutzen die Begriffe als zwei verschiedene. Grundsätzlich beschreibt es die Länge des Belags, die auf ebener Fläche unter Gewicht des Boarders den Boden berührt. Bei Boards mit tip Rocker und camber in der Mitte verringert sich diese Länge unter Last. Bei boards mit Rocker in der Mitte vergrößert sie sich. Ist für mich irgendwie nicht relevant, da ich meist auf der Kante fahre… 😉 und die Snowboardindustrie außerdem ohnehin nicht so genau ist mit den ganzen Abgaben. Es gibt ja kaum feste Definitionen…. Manche messen setback von der effektiven Kante (was korrekt ist!), andere messen von der Gesamtlänge des Boards…. Irrsinn!! 😂😐 Die Frustration mit dem ganzen Zeug hat zu diesem Kanal hier geführt. Ich versuche, so gut ich kann Sinn zu machen! 😊 Danke für‘s Reinschauen!
4:34 yes! finally someone gets it. This is exactly what I was trying to explain to you but couldnt get it through. But this makes me think: Are asymmetric sidecut snowboards just BS then? and if the sidecut does affect the turn a little bit is it really the deeper and shorter one that should be your heel side or is it in fact the one where the contact points are further apart?
3:49 Yes! board flex affects the turn radius. Moreover, if that is the case then weight distribution also affects how the board flexes - more distributed weight, lets say by putting your feet far apart results in more force needed to flex the board. The more the force is concentrated in the middle of the board the less of that force will be needed to flex the board. This is how bows work and also why flextesting your the boards in the shop with your hand tells you little since your feet are never goting to be in the middle of the board. MOREOVER, think about how you generate the force in a turn -it is basically the centrifugal force that is pushing on the board. This is why, provided that you have the grip to support it, if you turn at higher speed you will generate more centrifugal force in the turn and this you can make it tighter. Also about the short vs long planks of wood - look up the oldest skis you can find and check them out. they were ridiculously long and had almost no sidecut yet they turned! They achieved it exactly by flex curving as shown in 4:47
Nice correction video. So a longer board should be easier to carve, because of flex characteristics, as it’s easier to get the board to the point of full radius engagement.
Hi Lars. I have a question about board length/ max rider weight. Im a short fatty 100kg/175cm. Now i am thinking about buying Biru from Stranda, but what size to buy? Now im riding Bataleon cameltoe in 161, never summer heritage from 2010 158 and jones solution split 164 and i have feeling that they are too long specially jones in forest. Shorter board with less flow? Btw I live in Stranda. Yes this Stranda 😉
@@pawlospc amazing!!! Where the ocean meets the ski slopes……. Get the 157! That’s good for your weight and nimble enough. If you go through this link, it’ll help my channel, and it’s free shipping. Cheers!! www.strandasnowboards.com/ref/878/
Did the mathematical formulas account for the fact that snowboard edges do not have point contacts with snow, and instead embed a certain section of the edge? This is exaggerated in softer snow, but harder snow will produce something closer to point contact. When a section is embedded, it would effectively restrict flexion of the board. Longer distance between your center of mass and the edge (i.e., longer effective edge) would give you more leverage to fight that restriction, producing deeper flex. It's hard to say how big this effect is without doing a physics experiment, but certainly the physics involved is much more complicated than sidecut radius
Yeah not really, can’t say either flex curve or sidecut radius is the main reason for the line a snowboard will cut. You have to take the weight of the rider and how fast the rider is going in order to take advantage of a certain flex, sidecut or effective edge. EE will provide hold/contact patch for rider specific weight, flex will allow the weight of the rider to utilize that contact patch, and sidecut ultimately dictates as to what speed the board should be ridden at. A 6M sidecut can’t run at 120kmh, and a 14M sidecut can’t turn (with all its edge engaged) at 20kmh. It’s not one single element here, it’s the culmination of those three properties that allows a board to turn well given certain inputs. In order to achieve that, the core profile and glass layup need to all match. Then factor in early rise (static pre flex on the extension of the tip, least leverage area) and it can make the board turn even better. A board that turns and holds really well has a specific operating window that needs to be driven by the rider. If the tips start chattering, you lose hold, the edge slips, less hold, too much or too little flex, lose hold.
Honey Lars posted a video. Winter is coming.
@@shycarves sure is on its way!! 🥳
Hahahaha
most underrated snowboard channel!
@@jojodasjojo help me change this and share the stoke!! 🙂 Thank you so much for the comment. Made my day!!
Without math equations, I made a similar argument as riotsupercarver in the comments on your previous episode.
"The increase of sidecut depth that results from increasing effective edge, given constant sidecut radius, is the result that effective edge tracing a larger length of circle, and thus more of that circle's curvature, but it does not change the circle itself (or, therefore, the sidecut radius, or the range of possible resultant turn radii)."
Distinguishing between flex curve and sidecut curve is indeed useful. And, depending on flex, flex curve may or may not yield a tighter radius turn given different lengths and the same sidecut radius. But, *thank you* for making your excellent videos, for carefully correcting, and for helping us all think through the complexities of carving snowboard design.
@@sugarplumflyjelly yeah, I remember your comment. There were about three or four people commenting with that. He was the first and the one I went back and forth with forever…. So he really sparked the thought. That was a silly mistake, really. Seems so obvious now.
Thanks for your comments!!
Well done. Loved the cardboard board visual aid.
@@riotsupercarver7467 thanks again for your comment!!
This video brings to mind the flex pattern of your Standa Cheater which allow the bending process to aid the side cut for those shorter tight turns. Additionally many riders don't consider overall flex patterns, I personally like a softer flex though the middle of the board to help me with pressure throughout the turn with a solid camber profile. Great Video thanks!
Hi! I’m looking for similar kind-of boards, other than the Yes Typo, can you recommend two other playful directional free ride oriented snowboards?
Great to see you Lars!
Looking forward to another Justaride winter! 🥳
@@digitalysed Thanks and same here!!
Great video! Now we need a video about flex.
Gonna happen!!!
glad to see the videos coming back Lars, great info
@@finboyYYC yeah, it’s time!! 🥳 Thanks for the support.
nice video!! I'm 5'3' (160cm) 85kg (187lb) and bought Burton Custom Camber 154cm.. stability is so amazing.
Excellent correction ! Perfect presentation. Keep it up Lars ! 👍
Woohoo, he's back..thanks for clearing that up..had me confused🤔👍
This is a good reason to have a look at the size charts when buying a new board! Just because the 146cm was the only one left on sale if you are 85kg its not going to have that stiff flex its advertising you will overpower the board and it goes the opposite as well if your 45kg trying to flex a 165cm mid flex board your going to have a workout on your hands and not a great experience
Soo good to ear you again :) Zat makes me smile :D
Perfect video as usual !
Winter is coming \m/
@@darkieca 😂❤️
Well done!
Thanks man! Was important to me to get that straight… 😊🤙🙏
Great to see you back at it Lars. Just received my custom Donek board (160cm length, 30cm width) with a "variable" 7-10cm sidecut. I think you may have helped my understand how a sidecut can be variable depending on pressure of the press during a turn. Either way, great vid.
@@CLGill36 it’s variable as in a blend of different sidecuts along the edge. There will be an episode on this! 😎
...cheers ! 🥂
Lars even good when there’s a correction video
Thanks for the ongoing support!! 🙏
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Always brother!! Already getting stoked for the season. I got myself wider vises, 280mm. It’s the little things…
You are the goat man! I'm 5'11 with roughly 230 pounds, and I might be around 250 with boots and a suit! size 11.5 boots bought a board of 165 wide, and I am not sure if will be too big for me. but I like stability and confidence on the board. shorter boards I rode were too nimble and all but freaking unstable and came out of the carve very loose. since I'm a very heavy guy with a strong riding personality!
all things said, why do you choose big boards instead of ""correct size boards for you" ? I'm I wrong for buy such bigger boards for me?
Im also 5,11 but only 190. I bought a 165X Never Summer Proto FR. My conclusion from watching lars and riding "outside of the spec sheet" myself, has been that the spec sheet applies less when it comes to carving. IMO its better to go bigger (which btw with your weight i think 165 is a good choice) then you might need because it gives you something to grow into. It all comes down to your technique and how much leverage you can put into the board. Don't overthink it ;)
Thank you so much!! You’re on point!! What did you get? Burton Hometown Hero? 165 wide…. for your weight…. Sounds like the Hometown.
There’s so much personal preference and ability level involved….. The absence of shorter wide boards forced me to always ride longer boards (to get the right width). So that’s what I’m used to. And I love the benefits of length!!! I’m not a freestyle guy, so as long as I can bend it, I go longer.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I got a Ride deepfake, almost got a burton hometown! because of u, I bought my biru! by the way my favorite carver so far...
Thank you man 🙌🏼🔥🤙🏼
I have also taken other riders boards and lay them on a table so they can see their effective edge and side cut offset to better understand where to allow ie use edging and pressure during a turn, basically what kind of board performance they are looking at overall.
When nerds collide!
@@nemdawg6342 love it!! 😅❤️
Hallo Lars
Du machst geniale Vireos zu meinem Lieblingsthema (Snowboarden). Könntest du mir kurz erklären was deiner Meinung nach der Unterschied zwischen effective edge, contact lenght und runnung lenght ist. Ich finde die verschiedenen Angaben bei verschiedenen Anbietern verwirrend. Denkst du das der Markt bei den verschiedenen Begriffen jeweils von den gleichen Eigenschaften oder den gleichen Specs reden?
Liebe Grüsse
@@marco13ceo hi Marco!
Effective Kante ist die Kantenlänge zwischen den breitesten Punkten deines Boards. Contact und Running length sind prinzipiell das gleiche, aber manche Hersteller benutzen die Begriffe als zwei verschiedene. Grundsätzlich beschreibt es die Länge des Belags, die auf ebener Fläche unter Gewicht des Boarders den Boden berührt. Bei Boards mit tip Rocker und camber in der Mitte verringert sich diese Länge unter Last. Bei boards mit Rocker in der Mitte vergrößert sie sich.
Ist für mich irgendwie nicht relevant, da ich meist auf der Kante fahre… 😉 und die Snowboardindustrie außerdem ohnehin nicht so genau ist mit den ganzen Abgaben. Es gibt ja kaum feste Definitionen…. Manche messen setback von der effektiven Kante (was korrekt ist!), andere messen von der Gesamtlänge des Boards…. Irrsinn!! 😂😐 Die Frustration mit dem ganzen Zeug hat zu diesem Kanal hier geführt. Ich versuche, so gut ich kann Sinn zu machen! 😊
Danke für‘s Reinschauen!
4:34 yes! finally someone gets it. This is exactly what I was trying to explain to you but couldnt get it through. But this makes me think: Are asymmetric sidecut snowboards just BS then? and if the sidecut does affect the turn a little bit is it really the deeper and shorter one that should be your heel side or is it in fact the one where the contact points are further apart?
@@newrenaissance good question…..
3:49 Yes! board flex affects the turn radius. Moreover, if that is the case then weight distribution also affects how the board flexes - more distributed weight, lets say by putting your feet far apart results in more force needed to flex the board. The more the force is concentrated in the middle of the board the less of that force will be needed to flex the board. This is how bows work and also why flextesting your the boards in the shop with your hand tells you little since your feet are never goting to be in the middle of the board.
MOREOVER, think about how you generate the force in a turn -it is basically the centrifugal force that is pushing on the board. This is why, provided that you have the grip to support it, if you turn at higher speed you will generate more centrifugal force in the turn and this you can make it tighter.
Also about the short vs long planks of wood - look up the oldest skis you can find and check them out. they were ridiculously long and had almost no sidecut yet they turned! They achieved it exactly by flex curving as shown in 4:47
Correct!! 👍
Nice correction video. So a longer board should be easier to carve, because of flex characteristics, as it’s easier to get the board to the point of full radius engagement.
@@LagmasterB the longer version of a board with the exact same flex will bend under less weight.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel this is moderately mindblowing
Hi Lars. I have a question about board length/ max rider weight. Im a short fatty 100kg/175cm. Now i am thinking about buying Biru from Stranda, but what size to buy? Now im riding Bataleon cameltoe in 161, never summer heritage from 2010 158 and jones solution split 164 and i have feeling that they are too long specially jones in forest. Shorter board with less flow? Btw I live in Stranda. Yes this Stranda 😉
@@pawlospc amazing!!! Where the ocean meets the ski slopes…….
Get the 157! That’s good for your weight and nimble enough. If you go through this link, it’ll help my channel, and it’s free shipping. Cheers!!
www.strandasnowboards.com/ref/878/
Did the mathematical formulas account for the fact that snowboard edges do not have point contacts with snow, and instead embed a certain section of the edge? This is exaggerated in softer snow, but harder snow will produce something closer to point contact.
When a section is embedded, it would effectively restrict flexion of the board. Longer distance between your center of mass and the edge (i.e., longer effective edge) would give you more leverage to fight that restriction, producing deeper flex.
It's hard to say how big this effect is without doing a physics experiment, but certainly the physics involved is much more complicated than sidecut radius
Let me know when you record that episode!! 😊 Sounds amazing!
How do you measure sidecut?
@@PilgrimShred I don’t. But companies give you that number.
Technically it's misinformation not disinformation since you didn't knowingly try to deceive anyone. 😀
@@_-0_x_-_p_0-_ thanks for the clarification! 😂
Yeah not really, can’t say either flex curve or sidecut radius is the main reason for the line a snowboard will cut. You have to take the weight of the rider and how fast the rider is going in order to take advantage of a certain flex, sidecut or effective edge. EE will provide hold/contact patch for rider specific weight, flex will allow the weight of the rider to utilize that contact patch, and sidecut ultimately dictates as to what speed the board should be ridden at. A 6M sidecut can’t run at 120kmh, and a 14M sidecut can’t turn (with all its edge engaged) at 20kmh. It’s not one single element here, it’s the culmination of those three properties that allows a board to turn well given certain inputs. In order to achieve that, the core profile and glass layup need to all match. Then factor in early rise (static pre flex on the extension of the tip, least leverage area) and it can make the board turn even better. A board that turns and holds really well has a specific operating window that needs to be driven by the rider. If the tips start chattering, you lose hold, the edge slips, less hold, too much or too little flex, lose hold.
Totally! Rider input is obvious. No snowboard rides down the hill alone. What would possibly flex the board, if not external forces?!
I liked the other video with the disinformation.... Do I now have to dislike the video with the information here?
@@cb1p111 hahahaha…. I think the first video is completely fine - minus this little detail. 👍