Should be lime flush pointing, the Cement will trap moisture behind the wall and cause gypsum deposits that will destroy the stone and the cement eventually will lose it bond to the original lime behind, if there is any ?
Absolutely! Just mentioned above, that lime pouting only…… also - this just spoiled the natural look of the stones….( of course that is just personal opinion ) we have part of our Barn pointed this way and that’ll be the first part that I’ll chisel out as it looks horrendous…. can’t wait to finish it! 💪
you only brush up lime to reveal the aggregates in the soft plyable mortar . cement is brittle and hard even the smallest amount , try and not do this to your natural stione walls that have been built for 1000s years with lime mortar . never use cement with stone and lime it looks bad and in a few years will crack and defeat the purpose of the work your paying for . do it right first lime .... TIME
Oh dear. And to think someone paid good money for that repointing. Chris, you said the lime rakes out easily. Yes! Exactly! It's meant to because it's the sacrificial element! It's got to be softer than the stone so that weathers first. That's the way it's meant to be! Chris, I'm sure you're a really nice bloke but stay way from the old buildings because you clearly don't understand how they work. I spend most of my time undoing work like yours because of the problems it creates.
I mention this in the video around 8.3 into the video, also remember we are under the local authorities and they check all of this work....the only issue if anything would be the raised pointing lol...8 sand 1 Lime and 1 cement is a soft mix and the ratio passed as ok. May be you disagree and you are entitled to your opinion which I have allowed on my comments by the way for all to see and not filtered you out!
Yes, you're using a soft mix but it's not porous. Hence the future damp issues which are now pending. Why not just do like for like repointing and use lime? After all, it's how the building was originally constructed.
It is a good job and a great skill, but I hate this tape of pointing, I’ll be repointing all our Barn this year…… but I’ll stick to classic lime pointing then brush……. keep it nice and natural look…. 🤩
It's very sad that we still have people like going around damaging old buildings with cement, you don't know what you're doing with old buildings Chris and clearly you should stick to work on modern buildings only, only lime should have been used on this job and your excuse that it was the wrong time of year to use lime is no excuse whatsoever, you simply don't use inappropriate and damaging materials full stop and therefore the works should have been completed at the correct time of year instead! You don't do a bad job because it's easier unless you're a cowboy! Watch Peter Ward's video to see what will happen to the wall Chris has just pointed up here! m.ruclips.net/video/3Omxc4OK9eE/видео.html
There is a mixture of lime, cement, and sand..there is not a 3 x 1 cement sand mix. There's an 8 x 1 x 1 mix!!! That's fine and acceptable to the local council which check and sample your mixes!
And who's to say that the repairs prior to Chris' work weren't just that. Lime is in mortar. I've done re-pointing jobs at Princeton University with granite and schist stone and premixed manufactured mortar recommended by the school Architect and Facilities people. And we electric bull nose hammered the cracked and loose mortar out and rinsed before we re-pointed. Chris is using the oldest technique available within the confines of the historical aspect of the structure. If you want to get anal about it, dig up some Romans and have them do it or get the Ministry to declare it a historic structure and lay out some more distinct rules. Then it will be a pile of rock in another 200 years because no land owner will be able to afford the repairs!
Watch Peter Ward's videos here to see what will happen to the wall that Chris has just inappropriately pointed up with cement! m.ruclips.net/video/3Omxc4OK9eE/видео.html
Keith B That video does't reallyexplain that much...IE why was it pointed in that area only, was it previously poor condition a point where it gets the weather- It doesn't tell us how much cement was used, Etc....I used an 8x1x1 which is perfectly acceptable and was allowed by out local authority. In fact they test samples of the mortar to check! I just think you guys have no idea really and pick up some points on youtube then act like you are experts LOL
Wish you'd worked on my solid wall house , I never want to see a bag of fucking cement again , I'm a carpenter and I would have lost the house to rot if I hadn't spent last 3 years sorting out the mess left by bullshit builders .
The original mortar would have been hydraulic lime and sharp sand which should really be used to match existing. Hydraulic lime is about 4 times the price of cement, and much slower to work for a number or reasons (preparation, application, lengthy aftercare etc to control shrinkage & ensure it will cure correctly). Also you would never work with lime in January, as there is too much risk of frost causing issues, lime takes months to set hard enough to withstand a frost whereas cement would be hard enough the next day. A soft cement based mortar with hydrated lime can work but it probably wont be quite as compatible as the original hydraulic lime. Sometimes that is an important factor, sometimes not. The most important thing is that the mortar must always be softer than the stone. Some lime fanatics would say you should never use a cement based mortar with a stone building, however in my experience that isn't true, if the stone is hard enough a soft, appropriately specified cement mortar can work very well. However if you have a very soft stone, then any cement mortar is simply too hard and you would have to go with lime. Also aesthetically lime with sharp sand always looks much better than cement. If i was using a cement based mortar then i would still use a coarse sharp sand to help avoid shrinkage and get the right appearance. It's all about specifying the right mortar for the situation, be it cement or lime, brick or stone.
got to admit while the job is a clean pointing job if that is a cement mix it's going to cause major issues. lime mortar should have been used as the cement will trap water and lead to damp and the destruction of the stone according to Peter ward
Bad job lol, I lurned the hard way. Me and my friend renderd the side of my stone house, about year later it Stated blowing off, then done some reading lime Motta,, and not the usually lime builders use these days.. Since knowing how it should really be done I keep noticing and looking at stone work when I drive or wall past a wall or building and see the same old shit all blowing off or joints blowing like his will and will damage the stone.. I'm always arguing with h builders if worked with or asked about it its crazy lol
@@petersomthing9508it not good mate you need to let it breathable not water proof cement... i leaned the hard way, and iv read loads watched loads video and tried cement and lime and since removing cement in and out ane re-rendering & pointing with lime i have no damp in and out my house and no mold on walls or salt build up now and also no blowing, mainly the damp was my problem and mold and salt, I only some blwoing her and their. if it don't blow then its worst now the water needs to get out and now it will come through the stone and damage the stone the stone will turn to mulch /fall apart from water coming out through the stone, stone and lime need to breath to let moisture out, you wet the wall before rendering so you putting moisture in it then covering it up with water proof cement it's bad, also ground level old bulding the foundation will suck water up and the ground level will always be wet so that will blow that level if it's cement.. If had this argument with many builders i see on the streets doing work and even my dad and my neighbours who recently moved in they didn't listen to me now they have removed the cement and said you where right the damps gone now , they not even lime rendered yet they have just removed the cement back to the stone below and the original lime pointing to let the wall breath. And he's a builder lol
Should be lime flush pointing, the Cement will trap moisture behind the wall and cause gypsum deposits that will destroy the stone and the cement eventually will lose it bond to the original lime behind, if there is any ?
Your have done some cracking brickwork jobs Chris but this should be NHL lime only and a very gritty sand. Absolutely NO cement
Absolutely! Just mentioned above, that lime pouting only…… also - this just spoiled the natural look of the stones….( of course that is just personal opinion ) we have part of our Barn pointed this way and that’ll be the first part that I’ll chisel out as it looks horrendous…. can’t wait to finish it! 💪
No..... joints not washed/dampened, mix should be 3.5 lime and sand mixed at a ratio 3 to 1....... that won’t last
Also Needs to be SSD, Saturated surface dry.
Like the look of that Chris. Good job. 👍👍
you only brush up lime to reveal the aggregates in the soft plyable mortar . cement is brittle and hard even the smallest amount , try and not do this to your natural stione walls that have been built for 1000s years with lime mortar . never use cement with stone and lime it looks bad and in a few years will crack and defeat the purpose of the work your paying for . do it right first lime .... TIME
I use an old chisel or piece of steel 1/2 cm thick to push and pack the mortar into the joint after it has set a while .... thanks for the great video
Great tip!
Oh dear. And to think someone paid good money for that repointing. Chris, you said the lime rakes out easily. Yes! Exactly! It's meant to because it's the sacrificial element! It's got to be softer than the stone so that weathers first. That's the way it's meant to be! Chris, I'm sure you're a really nice bloke but stay way from the old buildings because you clearly don't understand how they work. I spend most of my time undoing work like yours because of the problems it creates.
I mention this in the video around 8.3 into the video, also remember we are under the local authorities and they check all of this work....the only issue if anything would be the raised pointing lol...8 sand 1 Lime and 1 cement is a soft mix and the ratio passed as ok. May be you disagree and you are entitled to your opinion which I have allowed on my comments by the way for all to see and not filtered you out!
Yes, you're using a soft mix but it's not porous. Hence the future damp issues which are now pending. Why not just do like for like repointing and use lime? After all, it's how the building was originally constructed.
michaeljamesdesign well said! Spot on!
Couldn't up-vote more
Also a small tool will fill the joints better.
Beautiful, old wall. We don't have as many of the old walls in the USA.
🤦🏽♂️ how not to point stone.
It is a good job and a great skill, but I hate this tape of pointing, I’ll be repointing all our Barn this year…… but I’ll stick to classic lime pointing then brush……. keep it nice and natural look…. 🤩
It's very sad that we still have people like going around damaging old buildings with cement, you don't know what you're doing with old buildings Chris and clearly you should stick to work on modern buildings only, only lime should have been used on this job and your excuse that it was the wrong time of year to use lime is no excuse whatsoever, you simply don't use inappropriate and damaging materials full stop and therefore the works should have been completed at the correct time of year instead! You don't do a bad job because it's easier unless you're a cowboy!
Watch Peter Ward's video to see what will happen to the wall Chris has just pointed up here! m.ruclips.net/video/3Omxc4OK9eE/видео.html
There is a mixture of lime, cement, and sand..there is not a 3 x 1 cement sand mix. There's an 8 x 1 x 1 mix!!! That's fine and acceptable to the local council which check and sample your mixes!
And who's to say that the repairs prior to Chris' work weren't just that. Lime is in mortar. I've done re-pointing jobs at Princeton University with granite and schist stone and premixed manufactured mortar recommended by the school Architect and Facilities people. And we electric bull nose hammered the cracked and loose mortar out and rinsed before we re-pointed. Chris is using the oldest technique available within the confines of the historical aspect of the structure. If you want to get anal about it, dig up some Romans and have them do it or get the Ministry to declare it a historic structure and lay out some more distinct rules. Then it will be a pile of rock in another 200 years because no land owner will be able to afford the repairs!
Why use cement why we are spoiled in the UK by cheap lime putty.
Well said Keith. Blokes like this shouldn't be allowed anywhere near old properties. I feel sorry for the owner who's equally ignorant.
Shut up you idiot.
Watch Peter Ward's videos here to see what will happen to the wall that Chris has just inappropriately pointed up with cement! m.ruclips.net/video/3Omxc4OK9eE/видео.html
Keith B That video does't reallyexplain that much...IE why was it pointed in that area only, was it previously poor condition a point where it gets the weather- It doesn't tell us how much cement was used, Etc....I used an 8x1x1 which is perfectly acceptable and was allowed by out local authority. In fact they test samples of the mortar to check! I just think you guys have no idea really and pick up some points on youtube then act like you are experts LOL
Brickie trying to be a stonemason. I specialise in rubble stone work, and have to say the pointing is atrocious. Please stick to brickwork.
Wish you'd worked on my solid wall house , I never want to see a bag of fucking cement again , I'm a carpenter and I would have lost the house to rot if I hadn't spent last 3 years sorting out the mess left by bullshit builders .
I wouldn't go that far.Its a fair job
chris why did you not use lime and sand only
Because that is the constituents of the original mortar I would hazard a guess at.
The original mortar would have been hydraulic lime and sharp sand which should really be used to match existing. Hydraulic lime is about 4 times the price of cement, and much slower to work for a number or reasons (preparation, application, lengthy aftercare etc to control shrinkage & ensure it will cure correctly). Also you would never work with lime in January, as there is too much risk of frost causing issues, lime takes months to set hard enough to withstand a frost whereas cement would be hard enough the next day. A soft cement based mortar with hydrated lime can work but it probably wont be quite as compatible as the original hydraulic lime. Sometimes that is an important factor, sometimes not. The most important thing is that the mortar must always be softer than the stone. Some lime fanatics would say you should never use a cement based mortar with a stone building, however in my experience that isn't true, if the stone is hard enough a soft, appropriately specified cement mortar can work very well. However if you have a very soft stone, then any cement mortar is simply too hard and you would have to go with lime. Also aesthetically lime with sharp sand always looks much better than cement. If i was using a cement based mortar then i would still use a coarse sharp sand to help avoid shrinkage and get the right appearance. It's all about specifying the right mortar for the situation, be it cement or lime, brick or stone.
Oh no how is the building gonna stay dry when cement was used. You dont see joiners using type of wood for outside work
There's an 8 x 1 x 1 mix!!! That's fine and acceptable to the local council which check and sample your mixes!
got to admit while the job is a clean pointing job if that is a cement mix it's going to cause major issues. lime mortar should have been used as the cement will trap water and lead to damp and the destruction of the stone according to Peter ward
Looks good to me mate and I have done a few walls myself.
Pointing finished with steel can't breathe properly even if it was a good mix.
Great Job, good mix.
No it isn't. And no it isn't. And you haven't got a clue.
You will find it easier to work from right to left, being a right-hander, trust me.
Always wonderd how that was done , boss job that .
It's not. It's a cowboy job!
Bad job lol, I lurned the hard way. Me and my friend renderd the side of my stone house, about year later it Stated blowing off, then done some reading lime Motta,, and not the usually lime builders use these days.. Since knowing how it should really be done I keep noticing and looking at stone work when I drive or wall past a wall or building and see the same old shit all blowing off or joints blowing like his will and will damage the stone.. I'm always arguing with h builders if worked with or asked about it its crazy lol
@@mikede2331 it blowing because you never went deep enough
@@petersomthing9508it not good mate you need to let it breathable not water proof cement... i leaned the hard way, and iv read loads watched loads video and tried cement and lime and since removing cement in and out ane re-rendering & pointing with lime i have no damp in and out my house and no mold on walls or salt build up now and also no blowing, mainly the damp was my problem and mold and salt, I only some blwoing her and their.
if it don't blow then its worst now the water needs to get out and now it will come through the stone and damage the stone the stone will turn to mulch /fall apart from water coming out through the stone, stone and lime need to breath to let moisture out, you wet the wall before rendering so you putting moisture in it then covering it up with water proof cement it's bad, also ground level old bulding the foundation will suck water up and the ground level will always be wet so that will blow that level if it's cement..
If had this argument with many builders i see on the streets doing work and even my dad and my neighbours who recently moved in they didn't listen to me now they have removed the cement and said you where right the damps gone now , they not even lime rendered yet they have just removed the cement back to the stone below and the original lime pointing to let the wall breath. And he's a builder lol
great to see someone who knows what they are doing thanks chris
But he doesn't!
Tom Crean he doesn’t mate
he doesn't,quite the opposite.
Rite techniques but wrong mixes.
You used cement! Oh dear.
so you dont work september to march because of frost bull shit
Awful
You have made a feature of the mortar...inappropriate colour and water retaining shape and cement mix....shame on you.
Don't worry, in six months, it'll have weathered in to match the rest of it.
it drys a different colour, it lloks sandy because its an 8 x 2 x 1 ratio. It will be a white colour when it drys matching the original
Well said Meg. But you'll never get through to this guy.
He said it's what the owner wanted lady