Some notes/points of interest. First the Vampire Generation thing. Obviously a lower generation is better, because it means you’re closer to Caine in terms of power. (he’s generation 1, the source of vampirism, and his stat block in any edition of the Hunter tabletop games is “YOU LOSE”. Yes, really, lol) However, there’s a hard cap on vampire generations at 13. There are no 13th generation vampires, the curse gets too thinned out at that point that the result is a “thin-blood” who are too weak to be considered true vampires, OR the person being embraced just straight up dies. I imagine that was part of why Pyotr, the cock-socket, was the one who offered to embrace Marcus and the others and Shitbeard DIDN’T start screaming at him that time. They knew if Marcus or anyone else accepted it, being Embraced by a 12th generation Pyotr probably wouldn’t work even if he did follow through on it. This is also why Pyotr was so dangerous. He was the most experienced vampire, and diablerizing a vampire of a lower generation would lower HIS generation to match it, but that’s a process that requires going one generation down at a time. Diablerization = drinking every drop of blood from a vampire, and then sucking out their soul on top of that. If you try to skip multiple generations in one go, the vampire being diablerized will possess the body of the one trying to eat them. That’s why Pyotr drank Apeboy first, since Shitbeard was a 10th Gen, and it’s inferred that Apeboy was an 11th gen. However, a follow-up note is on something my friend figured out when I had him listen to this podcast for the first time awhile back, about Kevin. After listening to the ending with Kevin’s lament, he said, “Oh…I think Kevin was TURNED into a vampire! Someone fucked up!” Me (who doesn’t know THAT much about World of Darkness about some things): “How’s that?” Buddy: “What he said about how he, ‘Woke up dead’. One of the biggest rules of Vampire society, especially the Camarilla, is that they do NOT make people into vampires UNWILLINGLY. It’s more than just biting them and waiting, there’s a process involved and it’s called ‘The Embrace’ for a reason; they’re supposed to be *welcomed* into vampirism, not *forced* into it. But I think Kevin was forced into it.” Me: “Okay, kinda with you…” Buddy: “Okay, you know the Vampire the Masquerade video game? That starts with your character getting embraced by a vampire, but your sire gets executed JUST because they didn’t get permission to embrace someone beforehand. Population control is a huge deal with vampires because you don’t want some asshole who’ll become a vampire and then start exposing the Masquerade. APPARENTLY, Kevin’s sire needed an accountant and decided to just grab some guy off of the street and turned him into a vampire AGAINST HIS WILL. Every other branch of the Camarilla would curbstomp her, and the regent for allowing it, because that’s even worse that JUST embracing someone without vetting them first.” Me: “…Oh. Somebody fucked up BAD.” Buddy: “It’s basically the Archer meme: ‘Do you want Sabbat!? Because that’s how you get Sabbat!’.” FINALLY, the ending also isn’t a cliffhanger, lol. Episode 2: the tortured wrestling match? At the very end, when Pyotr was diablerizing Shitbeard, Big D returned and STARTED to tell everyone that Kevin had told him about the Chapterhouse in Great Yarmouth…then he noticed what Pyotr was doing and justifiably flipped his shit, lol.
Actually...there are 13th generation vampires...but after that is when any further acts of embrace result in thin-bloods. In V5 especially, generations 14-16 are all immediate Thin Blood Vampires though I'm pretty sure 16 is the final generation cap! Also, I know the 3rd Tradition states that permission is required for the embrace...but that permission Needs to come from the Camarilla Prince NOT the Mortal you are embracing!! Aka: "Thou shall only Sire another with the permission of thine Elder." For Tremere, there's an extra step! You need to also seek the permission of The Council of Seven, in Vienna, so they can approve of the person you're bringing into the fold. As seen in the game Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, embracing without the permission of those who run the city is grounds for immediate "Final Death" usually for both Sire + Childe. Aka: "If thou createst another without thine Elder's leave, both thou and thy Progeny shall be slain." Within the Sabbat, especially the lower ranks, they do not uphold The 6 Traditions and are much less selective of whom they embrace! They'll often look for 'cannon-fodder' soldiers whom they can hit on the back of the head with a shovel, turn, and bury in a grave, only to recruit those "Shovelheads" who are able to crawl their way out within 24 hours. The ones who can't...are left to meet the Final Death. I have never heard of a situation where the mortal's consent is a factor...unless perhaps you're embracing a long-time ghoul, and even then, their consent may be irrelevant. The reason? The Masquerade!!! You can't just reveal to a mortal that you're a vampire, ask them 'so...do you want to join the club?' and let them freely walk away if they happen to say 'No'...because then you've created a living Masquerade Breach!!!! You've broken the 1st Tradition of Vampiric Society by revealing your existence to a mortal and your un-life is now on the chopping block instead...if you let them leave! A Sire-to-be can give the illusion of choice all they want of course! Sell the idea of immortality, super strength, magic, freedom from a long-standing disease, or whatever else as way of temptation...but ultimately, if you've gotten to the point where one is explaining this much to you...there's no Real "choice" left! You're not walking away from the confrontation alive...not unless the offer was actually to become a Ghoul instead of a Vampire. Even then you're forever altered, bound to serve until you've outlived your usefulness, are eventually turned later anyway, or you're Master meets the Final Death...creating to a slew of other problems for you! Killing someone is always an option of course...but that leaves one with a body that needs to be discarded and...after going through all the trouble of finding an ideal candidate for the embrace and getting the permission of at least one or more of your superiors...it's really just better to turn your new Childe, let them stew in resentment for a while if need be, and move on with whatever plans you had for them...
Some notes/points of interest.
First the Vampire Generation thing. Obviously a lower generation is better, because it means you’re closer to Caine in terms of power. (he’s generation 1, the source of vampirism, and his stat block in any edition of the Hunter tabletop games is “YOU LOSE”. Yes, really, lol)
However, there’s a hard cap on vampire generations at 13. There are no 13th generation vampires, the curse gets too thinned out at that point that the result is a “thin-blood” who are too weak to be considered true vampires, OR the person being embraced just straight up dies.
I imagine that was part of why Pyotr, the cock-socket, was the one who offered to embrace Marcus and the others and Shitbeard DIDN’T start screaming at him that time. They knew if Marcus or anyone else accepted it, being Embraced by a 12th generation Pyotr probably wouldn’t work even if he did follow through on it.
This is also why Pyotr was so dangerous. He was the most experienced vampire, and diablerizing a vampire of a lower generation would lower HIS generation to match it, but that’s a process that requires going one generation down at a time. Diablerization = drinking every drop of blood from a vampire, and then sucking out their soul on top of that. If you try to skip multiple generations in one go, the vampire being diablerized will possess the body of the one trying to eat them. That’s why Pyotr drank Apeboy first, since Shitbeard was a 10th Gen, and it’s inferred that Apeboy was an 11th gen.
However, a follow-up note is on something my friend figured out when I had him listen to this podcast for the first time awhile back, about Kevin. After listening to the ending with Kevin’s lament, he said, “Oh…I think Kevin was TURNED into a vampire! Someone fucked up!”
Me (who doesn’t know THAT much about World of Darkness about some things): “How’s that?”
Buddy: “What he said about how he, ‘Woke up dead’. One of the biggest rules of Vampire society, especially the Camarilla, is that they do NOT make people into vampires UNWILLINGLY. It’s more than just biting them and waiting, there’s a process involved and it’s called ‘The Embrace’ for a reason; they’re supposed to be *welcomed* into vampirism, not *forced* into it. But I think Kevin was forced into it.”
Me: “Okay, kinda with you…”
Buddy: “Okay, you know the Vampire the Masquerade video game? That starts with your character getting embraced by a vampire, but your sire gets executed JUST because they didn’t get permission to embrace someone beforehand. Population control is a huge deal with vampires because you don’t want some asshole who’ll become a vampire and then start exposing the Masquerade. APPARENTLY, Kevin’s sire needed an accountant and decided to just grab some guy off of the street and turned him into a vampire AGAINST HIS WILL. Every other branch of the Camarilla would curbstomp her, and the regent for allowing it, because that’s even worse that JUST embracing someone without vetting them first.”
Me: “…Oh. Somebody fucked up BAD.”
Buddy: “It’s basically the Archer meme: ‘Do you want Sabbat!? Because that’s how you get Sabbat!’.”
FINALLY, the ending also isn’t a cliffhanger, lol.
Episode 2: the tortured wrestling match? At the very end, when Pyotr was diablerizing Shitbeard, Big D returned and STARTED to tell everyone that Kevin had told him about the Chapterhouse in Great Yarmouth…then he noticed what Pyotr was doing and justifiably flipped his shit, lol.
Actually...there are 13th generation vampires...but after that is when any further acts of embrace result in thin-bloods. In V5 especially, generations 14-16 are all immediate Thin Blood Vampires though I'm pretty sure 16 is the final generation cap!
Also, I know the 3rd Tradition states that permission is required for the embrace...but that permission Needs to come from the Camarilla Prince NOT the Mortal you are embracing!! Aka:
"Thou shall only Sire another with the permission of thine Elder."
For Tremere, there's an extra step! You need to also seek the permission of The Council of Seven, in Vienna, so they can approve of the person you're bringing into the fold. As seen in the game Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, embracing without the permission of those who run the city is grounds for immediate "Final Death" usually for both Sire + Childe. Aka:
"If thou createst another without thine Elder's leave, both thou and thy Progeny shall be slain."
Within the Sabbat, especially the lower ranks, they do not uphold The 6 Traditions and are much less selective of whom they embrace! They'll often look for 'cannon-fodder' soldiers whom they can hit on the back of the head with a shovel, turn, and bury in a grave, only to recruit those "Shovelheads" who are able to crawl their way out within 24 hours. The ones who can't...are left to meet the Final Death.
I have never heard of a situation where the mortal's consent is a factor...unless perhaps you're embracing a long-time ghoul, and even then, their consent may be irrelevant.
The reason? The Masquerade!!!
You can't just reveal to a mortal that you're a vampire, ask them 'so...do you want to join the club?' and let them freely walk away if they happen to say 'No'...because then you've created a living Masquerade Breach!!!! You've broken the 1st Tradition of Vampiric Society by revealing your existence to a mortal and your un-life is now on the chopping block instead...if you let them leave!
A Sire-to-be can give the illusion of choice all they want of course! Sell the idea of immortality, super strength, magic, freedom from a long-standing disease, or whatever else as way of temptation...but ultimately, if you've gotten to the point where one is explaining this much to you...there's no Real "choice" left!
You're not walking away from the confrontation alive...not unless the offer was actually to become a Ghoul instead of a Vampire. Even then you're forever altered, bound to serve until you've outlived your usefulness, are eventually turned later anyway, or you're Master meets the Final Death...creating to a slew of other problems for you!
Killing someone is always an option of course...but that leaves one with a body that needs to be discarded and...after going through all the trouble of finding an ideal candidate for the embrace and getting the permission of at least one or more of your superiors...it's really just better to turn your new Childe, let them stew in resentment for a while if need be, and move on with whatever plans you had for them...
There are several classes of Hunter who have different ideals on how to handle the inhuman.
That last scene convinced me that Big D is a Redeemer.
Gotta love Karl The Deranged.