@Justin Waterman it means the flood was Genocide .. That was to wash all sin away. If the plan was always Jesus would die for sin. The flood was just a mass slaughter.
@Justin Waterman So either god made us corruptible and blamed us for throwing us into a world brimming with corruption, or god made us corrupt so he could blame us for being corrupt when we did bad shit. Either way, god's a tool. Also, "Genocide is justifiable when the people you're killing aren't very good?" Cool, if you get to define who's good and bad then you can commit genocide on whoever you please. So, what people should we be cleansing today, Justin?
@Justin Waterman Who even _wants_ eternal life? I sure as hell don't. I like video games, reading and all of that... but there is only so much to do. Eventually, you will do it all. Then you will do it all again. And again. And again. Until you are bored of everything forever. A boredom that will never end. Ever. No love, no joy, no sadness... just an infinite apathy that will never end. Helllllll no.
Brandon: Pro-tip; don’t work as a grief counselor in a pediatric oncology ward. Telling parents “well, at least your baby got an insta-pass to heaven” may not go over well.
He shouldn't offer any condolences. His whole view is what lies beyond death is better than what could ever exist on earth. He is a death cult fanatic.
@@MrKit9 c'mon...he can pick his nose, drag his knuckles on the ground (behind him, while walking) and breathe through his mouth like a fucking champ!!
The concept of original sin is one of the things that really makes me understand that the Abrahamic faiths are made up purely for control over people. They are cults.
If humans sinned, and if that was the reason for dying, then the only question worth having is: Why does the animals also get sick and die? Who sinned in that case?
Anytime I'm presented any argument mentioning Adam and Eve, the conversation stops there. We have mapped the human genome and know for a fact that if adults who are related closely together breed, it only takes a few generations before we start seeing deformities like cleft lip and club foot, along with various life threatening conditions to boot. Humans could not have risen out of one single pairing of adults, period. The Bible claims this happened twice, first with Adam and Eve, and then with Noah's family of eight individuals. It's every bit as ridiculous as a talking serpent, magic fruit, or people living to be several hundred years old. It's mythology, so discussing it any further is an exercise in futility.
@@brianlawson3757 When it comes up, I always ask what time period Adam & Eve were from. Where on a timeline of the Earth did they exist? At what point did 2 humans and every other type of animal in existence live in the same place at the same time, with no other life anywhere on the planet? But death didn't exist before that, so there can't be any previous life forms or extinctions yet. That point in time doesn't exist. QED
I'm totally fine with the idea that an old book, inspired by an all-knowing deity might have some knowledge in it that we haven't scientifically known about yet. Iiiiiif it'd be true, of course.
cy-one It might be reasonable for the authors of an old book to predict and offer guidance for things like, I don’t know, non-standard family structure or over-population. These sorts of thing can be surmised as a possible future condition or commonality that society may one day need help navigating. Guessing at DNA is completely different. There would be no way whatsoever to guess at DNA, let alone its form and function, without the tools we have today to observe and study such a small scale. This reminds me of another example that the Quran supposedly touched on (I can’t remember what right now). Absolutely ridiculous.
@@baphnie As I said, IF the story would be correct (which is... well, let's just say "very doubtful"), I don't see why some form of god (which obviously knows about genes) couldn't tell people how "some part of you gets inherited by the generation after you" in some form of another... That'd definitely mean genetics, even if the people of the time wouldn't have any way of "checking" the genes. I mean, in this case it would literally be the same as "someone who knows about genes" telling someone "who doesn't know about genes" about genes :D (and them writing down what they understood). Again, this presumes that the hypothetical god is an actual god.
While people in the ancient world didn't understand much about the mechanisms of how phenotypes are passed down from one generation to another I think it's not much of a stretch to say they understood that parents would pass down these phenotypes to their children (i.e. children tend to look similar to their parents) - so it wouldn't be that remarkable for a bible story to say that a curse could be interwoven with that process, and propagate down generations through that same mechanism. That said I'm not really familiar with the verse in question. I don't know if it really says something like that. But ancient people wouldn't need to know about DNA to say something like that, they'd just need to know the basic fact that traits tend to get passed down between generations, and that sex makes babies. Describing it as DNA just applies our modern, more detailed understanding to phenomena that have *always* been observable, and to some extent understood.
"you can read it for yourself in the bible..." yeah, and I can also read about a boy who climbs a really tall plant and meets a giant in the clouds who own a goose that lays golden eggs in Jack and the Beanstalk, but that doesn't mean it happened.
I love how these delusional theists all think that the bible is proof of anything. It proves absolutely nothing. It just makes a bunch of proclamations and was written by a random collection of humans.
In the story, Adam and Eve would not have understood good and bad before eating the fruit, so God telling them not to eat it is moot. They could not have known it was bad. Oh well. It is just a story, so it doesn't have to make sense.
@@rentiap Agreed. Sometimes I think it would be a lot easier on atheists if we just put all the disagreeing theists into a room and let them battle it out.
To have continued to talk to Brandon as if he were a lucid, rational person feels like a mistake. He made wild assertions, condescended to Vi and Eric by claiming they had missed a message that his confused mind was able to decipher, and then went on to expound on the validity of prophesy. He's whipped up a 72oz pitcher of Kool-Aid, and is chugging it without breathing between gulps.
@@jg3865 Yes. I've never comprehended how anyone could fall for the stupid shit written in that book. Though I had that shit shoved down my throat the first 16 years of my life, I comprehended at the age of 7 that it was all bullshit and never believed. what is every ones excuse when a 7 year old can figure it out?
@@rentiap i believe the problem is that you were not taught "right". The first time i read the bible i was the same as you, but them while reaching the exodus i started being overwhealm with emotions, like if i was transcending my body and suddenly i could see something that was beyond my mortal self!!!! In other words, i felt like if I was masturbating... In front of my whole family.... Yikes Reading back trying to figure why i felt that way i realised that i was proyecting myself in the jews and Moses. When they were winning i was winning and when they were losing i was losing. From Génesis to apocalipsis you can found this. Christians believe in god, because in a way, they are GOD. They are Jesus, they are the jews and the early christians. It's like a drug. It's easier to dismiss the side effects when what it gives you is so good and you are already hooked Up.
@@juangarza320 Please tell me how or what I was taught? Please tell me how you have any knowledge whatsoever of what I do or do not know? Please tell me exactly how many times I have read the whole bible? Please tell me what versions I have read the bible throughout? and in what language or languages? How many times have you actually read through the whole bible? Or are you only regurgitating what you were taught what to think instead of how to think? In what versions did you read through? Who am I? What precisely do you know about me? In what languages did you read through those different versions? and in what languages are you fluent in reading and writing and at what level are you going to tell me that I have knowledge? What is your level of education? Did you even get past grammar school? What is your level of comprehension of Biology, Phylogeny Paleontology, Chemistry, Geology, Anthropology, Taxonomy, Meteorology, Zoology, Dendrochronology? Do you believe in the stupidity of creationism? or; Do you believe in evolution? or do you accept evolution? Unlike you, I am not going to tell you what you believe or accept. I am asking.
This caller needs to be put on a watch list and never be permitted to have children, because I'm not convinced that he wouldn't just murder his own kids if they had a birth defect.
How does infants “maybe” getting a ‘get into heaven free’ card square up with us all being born lost and condemned by origin sin. Why did Jesus have to die, if god can just take everyone to heaven, like he supposedly took the firstborn of Egypt? That’s such a nonsense excuse.
@Brian G - Since I'm a recovering Southern Baptist, I can answer that question. They rationalize kids dying without being saved or baptized by being an 'age of innocence'. Once they're old enough to know good from evil, then the parents rush to get them 'saved'. That's why I was indoctrinated at the age of 4. Jesus then had to die to be the ultimate sacrificial lamb to wipe away everyone's original sin so all they had to do was pray to get saved instead of doing sacrifices anymore. And yes, you're right, it is a nonsense excuse, but its how they're able to reconcile the atrocities that their god commits in the bible. I am so glad I'm an atheist now.
Diesel Jester Southern Baptist!? Ouch! I am an ex-christian myself, and I learned the exact same explanation, but it was called the “Age of accountability” one must reach before being held accountable for your sin. I don’t remember it being a very satisfying explanation at the time. There never were very satisfying answers to any of my questions. That is one of many reasons I am now an atheist. 😜
@@BrianGay57 Yeah, I lived in the la-la land of denial for half of my life. 9/11 made me read the bible again, front to back, as I wanted to know what kind of a god would allow such a thing to happen. I was early 20s at the time. On that read through, being older and more able to understand it better, I was horrified at what I found out. I'd also been bouncing between churches and never found one that I quite fit into. It wasn't until about 6 years ago that I'd finally had enough with the apologetics, the hypocrisy, and the mental gymnastics required. That, and I was facing some discrimination in the church I was in (I'd since converted to Episcopalian), in that the priest was actually going to bat for a couple of convicted child molesters in the community, asking a judge for clemency for them because they'd shown remorse and were good, upstanding Christians. My wife and I had foster parented two of the children who'd been abused by one of them and we were sickened that anyone, especially a fucking priest, would back the abusers and not the kids. So, yeah, atheist now. :D
@@dieseljester3466 - the obvious problem with that nonsense excuse is that anyone at all who kills a little baby is therefore sending them straight to heaven - which is an inherently _good_ thing according to their religion. But they _still_ want to define killing babies as a bad thing ...! There's just no way around the inherent contradiction. Such a stupid religion.
That orgasm’s cause original sin thing was fascinating, I’ve never heard of that. Also, it was less than two minutes in that Brandon countered that obscure but mit of Info with the same old song and dance about Genesis, yet he acted like he had just said the profoundest of things, while appearing to ignore what Vi had to say.
"How do you know those kids didnt get a direct ticket to heaven?" Is he trying to defend child murder? Like a bunch of child murder. Like (almost) an entire cities first born worth of child murder. In all seriousness it seemed he got backed into a corner because he got real defensive after he thought he'd be hung up on and he kept talking "you always run away when you cant answer something". I just dont think eric wanted to respond to a defence of child murder
Vi’s point at 3:40 is something that’s been on my mind recently - Christians give the devil/satan/evil SO MUCH POWER, even when I was a Christian I thought it was weird when they did that
satan - aka the most beautiful angel - literally got boosted back in the dark ages, for his main gigs in the source material being quite lackluster (namely corrupting hiob - fail. also corrupting jesus in the desert - fail. what a loser.) - so they gave him spooky horns in the image of pan and made the snake into satan too, which wasnt the case in the old texts. and now they fear him the most in his literal form and use him here, there, and seeing their mind playn tricksies on poor-them by the devil walkin basically everywhere.
Vi you are KILLING it with your look today! And more and more every time I see you on the show! Also the buzz on the sides of your head is freaking awesome! Your a super suave human!
Way too much patience wasted on that guy. He was not only just talking over them, he was also rude, obnoxious and condescending. As much as I love Eric and Vi, I would have paid a dollar to listen to Matt D eviscerate him. Also, the whole Original Sin thing is a load of crap. IF Adam and Eve actually existed in the garden as fantasized in the bible, they clearly did not know right from wrong or good from evil until AFTER they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were incapable of sinning. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Right out of the freaking box, the Almighty crashes and burns, and the faithful worship him for it.
@Amy V I agree. Not only could they not have willfully sinned, but they were created in a state of sin by the very guy who was making the rules. So when they did eat from the tree and realized they were NAKED(!!), god realized something was wrong with them when Adam told him they realized they were naked and had covered themselves and he asked them how they knew they were naked. Not only did god get Adam to get it on with a petrie dish clone of himself , he stacked the deck against them from the beginning. There would have been no way that men and women could have been anything but sinners according to the god character's idiotic rules. The god character ends up looking more like a little kid that found his dad's hustler collection combined with a kid whose angry with his pet ant colony for not building a monument to him and worshipping him. Greek mythology stories make far more sense and I don't believe those either.
@@SnuffitLabsProlly because the Greek Pantheons make no illusions to being morally righteous nor omniscient. They are characterized consistently as very human and flawed, because that's what they are: humanized concepts. Yahweh wants to eat its cake and have it too, being both humanized and yet somehow the epitome of morality.
@@relic5752 It almost seems like there are two versions of the character YHWH in the bible beside all that. There is the omniscient version who knows everything about me before I'm born and then the one who couldn't find Adam and Eve hiding in the garden and didn't know if Abraham would obey him to sacrifice Isaac.
You can almost hear Brandon work it out.. "You guys are so smart, but you DON'T believe in GOD? Then again, most educated people don't...kids who go to college leave the church....there's no difference between what I believe and being mentally ill....hmmm....and I don't believe any other religion because they all sound....silly.... Oh."
What if the deity we think of as "god" is actually the personification of evil, and the "Devil" is a benevolent entity who cares about us? Frankly, almost everything in the bible about god is ugly, abusive and negative, as are so many of those who claim to worship god. The devil, however, appears to be a kindly spirit with our best interests at heart. Considering the quality of people who insist I must worship god in their way, I prefer the devil.
its non unbelievable (in comparison to other things) to think the TEST is to think for ourselves and come to the conclusion that the devil is the good guy
You are not the first person to come up with this idea. By far! What I want to know is, how, in a gaming situation (like D&D, or something else, fantasy or modern or scifi or whatever), would you set up a population that worships an evil god, but they're convinced he's good? How do the clerics explain that they channel negative energy? What's the history?
My father was a baptist minister. I'm nearly 80 now, but i walked out of church, never to return, after the talking snake episode. At 8, I thought, nope, this is crap.
@@amurape5497 Exactly, almost definitely one of the worst, morally speaking Factually all are almost equally guilty But Abrahamic ones are actually morally worse than others Hell alone is a worse concept than anything else put together
12:05 "I mean technically, most of California is a burning bush right now. It's not exactly convincing, so.. " God I love Vi so much, and that cute smirk after 😂
Hi fellow apes, thank you so much for doing this, I am sure it must be very exhausting. I believe we shouldn't judge people for believing myths but we should definetely judge people for the moral conclussion they make from them. For me it doesn't matter where does a person have it from, but I will NEVER tolerate justifying crimes, especialy crimes against humanity. Ad the one way ticket to heaven argument: In 1209 CE in Béziers a massacre happened where over 10 000 of people were slaughtered because Cathars lived there. According to Caesarius of Heisterbach, delegate of the Pope said to the soldiers not to considers whether those people are Cathars or not saying: "Kill them all, God will know His own" (one way ticket to heaven argument) We don't know whether this was really said, but it was WIDELY ACCEPTED AS AN EXCUSE for this crime.
Well, I don't think that Brandon knows much of the Bible, but the fact that your cat knows ANYTHING of Shakespeare tells me that you must have one brilliant cat!
Is it good to punish someone for what an ancestor had done? What if our justice system killed a man's child because the father robbed a bank? Is that justice? Is that good?
Even though this call was so frustrating, I enjoyed it very much. Caller holds many so fascinating views, and hosts handled it all so great... I could almost feel the temptation to into each rabbit hole there was.
That look that Eric and vi exchanged after the “technically California is a burning bush right now” was priceless. Vi looks so pleased with herself lol.
This is one of the best ever. So good I kept wondering if it was a spoof. "Did God go out for a pack of smokes and never come home?" Hope I can remember that!
God puts knowledge in front of people who are regularly depicted with belly buttons... Think about that... All knowing, but doesn't anticipate the serpent? So Satan defeats God, which proves God isn't all powerful... Satan is also known as the "light bringer" which kind of implies he brought knowledge.... Which also begs the question... If God created everything, why did he create Satan?
My Q: how the F was the serpent getting around without “crawling on its belly” after the “Curse”? Then there’s the really cool way that Eve reacted to the talking snake. Your average person would have some problems with a talking snake but Eve - not only is unfazed but is actually convinced by it.
@@AC-gb7do Look, I've seen the girls who leave the bar with one loser after another, in some cases a talking snake is a step up. No,.... Seriously.... lol Some do, the most don't... I can't judge... I just met a lady....lol
The Serpent was not Satan. God was outdone by one of his first creations, Adam's crazy first wife Lilith. It was she, not Lucifer, who took a serpentine form to fuck up the new happy couple.
One more thing. Atheists are not sinners. It is impossible for them to be sinners. Sin is wrongdoing against god. If your beliefs don't involve a deity then you may do wrong but it isn't sin. It is impossible for an Atheist to sin. Original sin is a joke.
Well, no, the question of whether an act is a "sin" would hinge on whether the god is real, not whether the person believes in that god. So an atheist could be a sinner - if a god is real.
Vi and Eric: From 12:06-12:1 was one of the funniest things I've seen; Eric trying to deal with Brandon and getting a little distracted with Vi's California is technically a burning bush remark. You oughta use that as a trailer or even a bumper: anything as long as you use it; it's too good not to be used. It the anger temper Brandon ignited in me too.
Watching this show has been a good learning curve. I understand why Americans are alone in the western world as a theistic nation...this position grates against the current world. What will happen?
So sad. And that we interact w/ people like him on a regular basis. Ugh. Thank you so much for every host on this show for offering to educate these people to hopefully help them become better!
"If the story is true, then wouldn't it just be nonsensical for God to play games with your soul, after he went to so much trouble, that you wouldn't have to go to hell?" Precisely.
I think what happened in the Garden of Eden was that Adam and Eve ate a bad apple, had horrendous diarrhea, and then suddenly felt ashamed from their poopy butts and decided they needed to start wearing clothes.
original sin somewhat bites itself with the demand that at leisure the other side may call crimes like burnings obsolete for being from long-ago - but that apple story - that crawls through your blood, you know?
If someone walked up to him performing magic tricks claiming they're God and that they're going to kill his children so he can take their souls to heaven, would he just let them go? What's the difference? How would he know?
It's unfathomable how much precious time people waste trying to read and re-read the Bible so that it somehow explains reality. It doesn't, it never has, and it never will. If God can't be seen, can't be felt, can't be measured with any equipment we can create, can't be heard, and is supposedly outside our universe, and can't have any effect on our universe, He therefore doesn't exist. The whole idea that we were perfect until we started thinking for ourselves is at the heart of religion, and is the most damaging idea humans have ever invented.
As a rational thinking person (atheist and anti theist) born in the first half of last century, I can't comprehend the mental contortions and gymnastics 'believers' are willing to perform to support archaic, irrelevant, and nonsensical myths and legends from the first century.
I'm confused as to the concept of Hell as opposed to Heaven. As far as I'm aware, when we go to heaven, we have an eternity to serve the chosen 144,000 (given current stellar theory, the Universe is going to be dark in about 150 trillion years and I guess that is when "god" winds shit up). That sounds like a horror to me; it would be kind of cool to make 100 years; to me anyway.. The idea of existence for 1.5 trillion times that long boggles my mind. The best answer I could get from a theist was "but you could spend 200 years learning to play the flute" and I riposted with, "what are you going to do with the other 149.999999999999 trillion years?" How is that different to eternal punishment in Hell?
God appears on the road to Damascus... Sometime later gets run over by a drunken Roman Centurion in a chariot... THAT is why he hasn't been back.... Dogma run over by a primitive Karma.... LOL
So total tangent, not discussed at all in the call, but I've always thought it was ironic that there's such an emphasis on the fact that before sin, again and Eve were naked and unashamed, and only became ashamed of their nakedness after sin, so why is the church so big on modesty? Isn't it good to be able to be naked and unashamed? But instead they lean into ppl fall for temptation, especially putting the most pressure on women and young girls to not tempt men, rather than saying, 'hey, don't give into temptation!' I'd think that being able to be unbothered by nakedness should be the greatest sign of righteousness 🤷🏽♀️🤣
Brandon, like many religious apologists, wants to tell other people they’re not interpreting his old book of fairy tales correctly, even though he can’t prove he knows the correct interpretation.🤤
"But that's... that's... You hang up on me every time as soon as I get something you can't explain..." Brandon means that Eric can't explain it so Brandon can understand it. Brandon is not the sharpest tool in the drawer, but he's certainly a tool. For religion to disappear, we need more people like Brandon promoting fantasy beliefs. You tell 'em, Brandon!
If God is pure truth and can NOT lie...was he telling the truth when Adam and Eve were hiding from him and he called out "Where are you?".... Either he really didn't know and needed them to reveal themselves. Or he was lying...all knowing, but not all truthful. All truthful, but not all knowing.
Apparently, Adam and Eve supposedly doesn't know good and evil before they ate the forbidden fruit. They even doesn't know what "disobedience" is. And God, an omnipotent and omniscient being, should know that creating two naive people without the knowledge of evil and good, putting them in the middle of paradise, where a tree bearing forbidden fruit is also placed, and leaving them with a sweet deceiving talking serpent, is the perfect ingredients to humanity fall...
Also, why _wouldn't_ they trust the snake? They had never even heard that it was possible not to tell the truth (although, strictly speaking, the snake did tell the truth) nor be misleading. They had no reason not to trust literally everything everyone ever said to them.
If we were all actually "born in sin," then the christian god stacked the deck against us from the beginning!
@Justin Waterman it means the flood was Genocide .. That was to wash all sin away.
If the plan was always Jesus would die for sin. The flood was just a mass slaughter.
@Justin Waterman So either god made us corruptible and blamed us for throwing us into a world brimming with corruption, or god made us corrupt so he could blame us for being corrupt when we did bad shit. Either way, god's a tool.
Also, "Genocide is justifiable when the people you're killing aren't very good?" Cool, if you get to define who's good and bad then you can commit genocide on whoever you please. So, what people should we be cleansing today, Justin?
@Justin Waterman
Who even _wants_ eternal life?
I sure as hell don't. I like video games, reading and all of that... but there is only so much to do. Eventually, you will do it all. Then you will do it all again. And again. And again. Until you are bored of everything forever. A boredom that will never end. Ever. No love, no joy, no sadness... just an infinite apathy that will never end.
Helllllll no.
@Justin Waterman
I want nothing to do with it. I actively reject any offer of eternal life in any form. I can't picture anything worse.
@Justin Waterman - Can you establish or validate that there is such a thing as an "afterlife"? Thus far it's nothing save wishful rationalization.
Brandon: Pro-tip; don’t work as a grief counselor in a pediatric oncology ward. Telling parents “well, at least your baby got an insta-pass to heaven” may not go over well.
Brandon isn't qualified to lick a floor clean.
He shouldn't offer any condolences. His whole view is what lies beyond death is better than what could ever exist on earth. He is a death cult fanatic.
@@MrKit9 c'mon...he can pick his nose, drag his knuckles on the ground (behind him, while walking) and breathe through his mouth like a fucking champ!!
The concept of original sin is one of the things that really makes me understand that the Abrahamic faiths are made up purely for control over people. They are cults.
yes, totally ridiculous. why does mankind have to inherit sin forever for simply eating of a fruit. this god is really nothing but a jerk.
@Nicolas Broszky oh so nasty, but oh so fun. what was god thinking, wait a second this was its grand plan.
If humans sinned, and if that was the reason for dying, then the only question worth having is: Why does the animals also get sick and die? Who sinned in that case?
@Nicolas Broszky
Alot of the best stuff requires towels so you don't soak the mattress. Nobody wants to sleep on that.
Well, almost nobody.
@Nicolas Broszky Obviously Aquinas was dumber than a box of rocks.
Thank you Brandon every time religious people like you call in it only reaffirms my atheism. 👍👍👍good job buddy.
Yeah, he further strengthened my atheism when he focused on only a ticket to heaven.
That Vi comment about abortion needs to go into the Hall of Fame.
I missed it, what did she say? Something about God killing a bunch of infants in 1 of the many stories in the Bible festuring tribal genocide?
Triple decker backflips onto a kick stand of apologetics.
Sticks the landing.
An 8.9 from the Russian judge.
Ken Ham with a 10.
Triple decker backflips onto a kick stand into a triple lindy backdoor argument for abortion 🤣
Dont forget the faceplant landing
Such a long, in-depth conversation about a myth that we know never happened. The things we go through to appease the theists in this world.
well said
It's more like recovering alcoholics sitting around in AA meetings talking about booze.
Anytime I'm presented any argument mentioning Adam and Eve, the conversation stops there. We have mapped the human genome and know for a fact that if adults who are related closely together breed, it only takes a few generations before we start seeing deformities like cleft lip and club foot, along with various life threatening conditions to boot. Humans could not have risen out of one single pairing of adults, period. The Bible claims this happened twice, first with Adam and Eve, and then with Noah's family of eight individuals. It's every bit as ridiculous as a talking serpent, magic fruit, or people living to be several hundred years old. It's mythology, so discussing it any further is an exercise in futility.
To be fair they have such convos about
Batman and Superman..
Vader and Luke
Spiderman and Ironman..
Wolverine and Xmen.
😎
@@brianlawson3757 When it comes up, I always ask what time period Adam & Eve were from. Where on a timeline of the Earth did they exist? At what point did 2 humans and every other type of animal in existence live in the same place at the same time, with no other life anywhere on the planet? But death didn't exist before that, so there can't be any previous life forms or extinctions yet. That point in time doesn't exist.
QED
My conscience led me away from Christianity, doubt led me out of theism.
Never ceases to amuse me how many Christians just automatically assume atheists have never read the bible or weren't previously Christians themselves.
"You assume God is cruel for sending everyone to Hell."
Yes, absolutely, the character here is that, within the actual story.
I really love how Brandon incorporates DNA into his thesis about the bible's "context" when we've only known about DNA for what, 85 years now?
I'm totally fine with the idea that an old book, inspired by an all-knowing deity might have some knowledge in it that we haven't scientifically known about yet. Iiiiiif it'd be true, of course.
cy-one It might be reasonable for the authors of an old book to predict and offer guidance for things like, I don’t know, non-standard family structure or over-population. These sorts of thing can be surmised as a possible future condition or commonality that society may one day need help navigating.
Guessing at DNA is completely different. There would be no way whatsoever to guess at DNA, let alone its form and function, without the tools we have today to observe and study such a small scale. This reminds me of another example that the Quran supposedly touched on (I can’t remember what right now). Absolutely ridiculous.
@@baphnie As I said, IF the story would be correct (which is... well, let's just say "very doubtful"), I don't see why some form of god (which obviously knows about genes) couldn't tell people how "some part of you gets inherited by the generation after you" in some form of another... That'd definitely mean genetics, even if the people of the time wouldn't have any way of "checking" the genes.
I mean, in this case it would literally be the same as "someone who knows about genes" telling someone "who doesn't know about genes" about genes :D (and them writing down what they understood).
Again, this presumes that the hypothetical god is an actual god.
While people in the ancient world didn't understand much about the mechanisms of how phenotypes are passed down from one generation to another I think it's not much of a stretch to say they understood that parents would pass down these phenotypes to their children (i.e. children tend to look similar to their parents) - so it wouldn't be that remarkable for a bible story to say that a curse could be interwoven with that process, and propagate down generations through that same mechanism.
That said I'm not really familiar with the verse in question. I don't know if it really says something like that. But ancient people wouldn't need to know about DNA to say something like that, they'd just need to know the basic fact that traits tend to get passed down between generations, and that sex makes babies.
Describing it as DNA just applies our modern, more detailed understanding to phenomena that have *always* been observable, and to some extent understood.
"you can read it for yourself in the bible..."
yeah, and I can also read about a boy who climbs a really tall plant and meets a giant in the clouds who own a goose that lays golden eggs in Jack and the Beanstalk, but that doesn't mean it happened.
I love how these delusional theists all think that the bible is proof of anything. It proves absolutely nothing. It just makes a bunch of proclamations and was written by a random collection of humans.
In my preferred version of the tale, being a Scot myself, the Giant is Scottish, so "I smell the blood of an Englishman" is a valid reason for fury.
In the story, Adam and Eve would not have understood good and bad before eating the fruit, so God telling them not to eat it is moot. They could not have known it was bad. Oh well. It is just a story, so it doesn't have to make sense.
In the beginning is just a metaphor for once upon a time.
@@rentiap Agreed. Sometimes I think it would be a lot easier on atheists if we just put all the disagreeing theists into a room and let them battle it out.
You make the EXACT point I make when dealing with "original sin" believers.
If there WERE a god, he'd have to be one sick minded bastard.
@@NickvonZ The bit with Abraham and his son and then Lot. The god comes across as a monster.
@@jayv9779 Yes! "monster" is even being KIND if that poop-bag actually existed. 😉
To have continued to talk to Brandon as if he were a lucid, rational person feels like a mistake. He made wild assertions, condescended to Vi and Eric by claiming they had missed a message that his confused mind was able to decipher, and then went on to expound on the validity of prophesy. He's whipped up a 72oz pitcher of Kool-Aid, and is chugging it without breathing between gulps.
I'm screen-shot'ing that last sentence. Epic!
3 mins in & I'm flabbergasted. Wow. Just wow....people really believe this b.s.
@@jg3865 Yes. I've never comprehended how anyone could fall for the stupid shit written in that book.
Though I had that shit shoved down my throat the first 16 years of my life, I comprehended at the age of 7 that it was all bullshit and never believed. what is every ones excuse when a 7 year old can figure it out?
@@rentiap i believe the problem is that you were not taught "right".
The first time i read the bible i was the same as you, but them while reaching the exodus i started being overwhealm with emotions, like if i was transcending my body and suddenly i could see something that was beyond my mortal self!!!!
In other words, i felt like if I was masturbating... In front of my whole family.... Yikes
Reading back trying to figure why i felt that way i realised that i was proyecting myself in the jews and Moses. When they were winning i was winning and when they were losing i was losing.
From Génesis to apocalipsis you can found this. Christians believe in god, because in a way, they are GOD. They are Jesus, they are the jews and the early christians.
It's like a drug. It's easier to dismiss the side effects when what it gives you is so good and you are already hooked Up.
@@juangarza320 Please tell me how or what I was taught?
Please tell me how you have any knowledge whatsoever of what I do or do not know?
Please tell me exactly how many times I have read the whole bible?
Please tell me what versions I have read the bible throughout? and in what language or languages?
How many times have you actually read through the whole bible? Or are you only regurgitating what you were taught what to think instead of how to think?
In what versions did you read through?
Who am I?
What precisely do you know about me?
In what languages did you read through those different versions? and in what languages are you fluent in reading and writing and at what level are you going to tell me that I have knowledge?
What is your level of education?
Did you even get past grammar school?
What is your level of comprehension of Biology, Phylogeny Paleontology, Chemistry, Geology, Anthropology, Taxonomy, Meteorology, Zoology, Dendrochronology?
Do you believe in the stupidity of creationism? or;
Do you believe in evolution? or do you accept evolution?
Unlike you, I am not going to tell you what you believe or accept. I am asking.
If God doesn't play with people's souls, explain the story of Job.
This caller needs to be put on a watch list and never be permitted to have children, because I'm not convinced that he wouldn't just murder his own kids if they had a birth defect.
How does infants “maybe” getting a ‘get into heaven free’ card square up with us all being born lost and condemned by origin sin.
Why did Jesus have to die, if god can just take everyone to heaven, like he supposedly took the firstborn of Egypt?
That’s such a nonsense excuse.
@Brian G - Since I'm a recovering Southern Baptist, I can answer that question. They rationalize kids dying without being saved or baptized by being an 'age of innocence'. Once they're old enough to know good from evil, then the parents rush to get them 'saved'. That's why I was indoctrinated at the age of 4. Jesus then had to die to be the ultimate sacrificial lamb to wipe away everyone's original sin so all they had to do was pray to get saved instead of doing sacrifices anymore.
And yes, you're right, it is a nonsense excuse, but its how they're able to reconcile the atrocities that their god commits in the bible. I am so glad I'm an atheist now.
Diesel Jester Southern Baptist!? Ouch!
I am an ex-christian myself, and I learned the exact same explanation, but it was called the “Age of accountability” one must reach before being held accountable for your sin.
I don’t remember it being a very satisfying explanation at the time.
There never were very satisfying answers to any of my questions. That is one of many reasons I am now an atheist. 😜
@@BrianGay57 Yeah, I lived in the la-la land of denial for half of my life. 9/11 made me read the bible again, front to back, as I wanted to know what kind of a god would allow such a thing to happen. I was early 20s at the time. On that read through, being older and more able to understand it better, I was horrified at what I found out.
I'd also been bouncing between churches and never found one that I quite fit into. It wasn't until about 6 years ago that I'd finally had enough with the apologetics, the hypocrisy, and the mental gymnastics required. That, and I was facing some discrimination in the church I was in (I'd since converted to Episcopalian), in that the priest was actually going to bat for a couple of convicted child molesters in the community, asking a judge for clemency for them because they'd shown remorse and were good, upstanding Christians. My wife and I had foster parented two of the children who'd been abused by one of them and we were sickened that anyone, especially a fucking priest, would back the abusers and not the kids.
So, yeah, atheist now. :D
@@dieseljester3466 - the obvious problem with that nonsense excuse is that anyone at all who kills a little baby is therefore sending them straight to heaven - which is an inherently _good_ thing according to their religion.
But they _still_ want to define killing babies as a bad thing ...! There's just no way around the inherent contradiction.
Such a stupid religion.
@@pauligrossinoz Yup. Totally agree. Which is why I'm glad that I grew a brain and got out of it. :D
From now on:
Theist - what do you have against religion?
Atheist - Brandon
That orgasm’s cause original sin thing was fascinating, I’ve never heard of that. Also, it was less than two minutes in that Brandon countered that obscure but mit of Info with the same old song and dance about Genesis, yet he acted like he had just said the profoundest of things, while appearing to ignore what Vi had to say.
"How do you know those kids didnt get a direct ticket to heaven?"
Is he trying to defend child murder? Like a bunch of child murder. Like (almost) an entire cities first born worth of child murder.
In all seriousness it seemed he got backed into a corner because he got real defensive after he thought he'd be hung up on and he kept talking "you always run away when you cant answer something". I just dont think eric wanted to respond to a defence of child murder
He has to defend a child murder if he wants to defend his god...
@@plowenson Its the only way to keep the lie alive. Pathetic.
I love that Vi used that bullshit argument to confront him with the abortion hypocrisy.
Vi’s point at 3:40 is something that’s been on my mind recently - Christians give the devil/satan/evil SO MUCH POWER, even when I was a Christian I thought it was weird when they did that
satan - aka the most beautiful angel - literally got boosted back in the dark ages, for his main gigs in the source material being quite lackluster (namely corrupting hiob - fail. also corrupting jesus in the desert - fail. what a loser.) - so they gave him spooky horns in the image of pan and made the snake into satan too, which wasnt the case in the old texts. and now they fear him the most in his literal form and use him here, there, and seeing their mind playn tricksies on poor-them by the devil walkin basically everywhere.
Vi you are KILLING it with your look today! And more and more every time I see you on the show! Also the buzz on the sides of your head is freaking awesome! Your a super suave human!
Good god......that was absolutely brutal......like seriously
Way too much patience wasted on that guy. He was not only just talking over them, he was also rude, obnoxious and condescending. As much as I love Eric and Vi, I would have paid a dollar to listen to Matt D eviscerate him.
Also, the whole Original Sin thing is a load of crap. IF Adam and Eve actually existed in the garden as fantasized in the bible, they clearly did not know right from wrong or good from evil until AFTER they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were incapable of sinning. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Right out of the freaking box, the Almighty crashes and burns, and the faithful worship him for it.
@Amy V I agree. Not only could they not have willfully sinned, but they were created in a state of sin by the very guy who was making the rules. So when they did eat from the tree and realized they were NAKED(!!), god realized something was wrong with them when Adam told him they realized they were naked and had covered themselves and he asked them how they knew they were naked. Not only did god get Adam to get it on with a petrie dish clone of himself , he stacked the deck against them from the beginning. There would have been no way that men and women could have been anything but sinners according to the god character's idiotic rules. The god character ends up looking more like a little kid that found his dad's hustler collection combined with a kid whose angry with his pet ant colony for not building a monument to him and worshipping him. Greek mythology stories make far more sense and I don't believe those either.
@@SnuffitLabsProlly because the Greek Pantheons make no illusions to being morally righteous nor omniscient. They are characterized consistently as very human and flawed, because that's what they are: humanized concepts. Yahweh wants to eat its cake and have it too, being both humanized and yet somehow the epitome of morality.
@@relic5752 It almost seems like there are two versions of the character YHWH in the bible beside all that. There is the omniscient version who knows everything about me before I'm born and then the one who couldn't find Adam and Eve hiding in the garden and didn't know if Abraham would obey him to sacrifice Isaac.
this is my netflix, shits too good
Eric is SO charming... He's sort of the good cop to Matt Dillahunty's bad cop.
The callers are always good for a laugh.
these shows are total comedy
BrandonBovine keeps saying I think and then goes on to prove he cannot.
You can almost hear Brandon work it out..
"You guys are so smart, but you DON'T believe in GOD? Then again, most educated people don't...kids who go to college leave the church....there's no difference between what I believe and being mentally ill....hmmm....and I don't believe any other religion because they all sound....silly.... Oh."
What if the deity we think of as "god" is actually the personification of evil, and the "Devil" is a benevolent entity who cares about us? Frankly, almost everything in the bible about god is ugly, abusive and negative, as are so many of those who claim to worship god.
The devil, however, appears to be a kindly spirit with our best interests at heart.
Considering the quality of people who insist I must worship god in their way, I prefer the devil.
Neither of them are real, so I will pretend to worship neither.
its non unbelievable (in comparison to other things) to think the TEST is to think for ourselves and come to the conclusion that the devil is the good guy
You are not the first person to come up with this idea. By far!
What I want to know is, how, in a gaming situation (like D&D, or something else, fantasy or modern or scifi or whatever), would you set up a population that worships an evil god, but they're convinced he's good? How do the clerics explain that they channel negative energy? What's the history?
Vi, hair on fleek yet again 🤙🏽
One word sums this up 'delusional'
My father was a baptist minister. I'm nearly 80 now, but i walked out of church, never to return, after the talking snake episode. At 8, I thought, nope, this is crap.
Brandon doesn’t realise that bible is not the only holy book that contains truth claims
But one of few holy books justifying genocide :-(
@@amurape5497 Exactly, almost definitely one of the worst, morally speaking
Factually all are almost equally guilty
But Abrahamic ones are actually morally worse than others
Hell alone is a worse concept than anything else put together
My dad literally went out for a pack of smokes and never came back I guess God and my dad have something in common
"Time is temporal"(19:20) thanks for clearing that up Brandon.
12:05 "I mean technically, most of California is a burning bush right now. It's not exactly convincing, so.. " God I love Vi so much, and that cute smirk after 😂
Hi fellow apes, thank you so much for doing this, I am sure it must be very exhausting.
I believe we shouldn't judge people for believing myths but we should definetely judge people for the moral conclussion they make from them. For me it doesn't matter where does a person have it from, but I will NEVER tolerate justifying crimes, especialy crimes against humanity.
Ad the one way ticket to heaven argument:
In 1209 CE in Béziers a massacre happened where over 10 000 of people were slaughtered because Cathars lived there. According to Caesarius of Heisterbach, delegate of the Pope said to the soldiers not to considers whether those people are Cathars or not saying: "Kill them all, God will know His own" (one way ticket to heaven argument) We don't know whether this was really said, but it was WIDELY ACCEPTED AS AN EXCUSE for this crime.
Brandon has about as much "understanding" of the Bible as my cat has of Shakespeare's plays.
Well, I don't think that Brandon knows much of the Bible, but the fact that your cat knows ANYTHING of Shakespeare tells me that you must have one brilliant cat!
Is it good to punish someone for what an ancestor had done? What if our justice system killed a man's child because the father robbed a bank? Is that justice? Is that good?
Even though this call was so frustrating, I enjoyed it very much. Caller holds many so fascinating views, and hosts handled it all so great... I could almost feel the temptation to into each rabbit hole there was.
God was playing games from the beginning.
Mona Amus Well I suppose even gods must get their entertainment somehow !
Brandon: God is truth
God: earth is flat
Me: I'm not convinced that god is truth
@FACE GALLON just stop the nonsense...
Fascinating. Slightly hilarious, but more sad. Dangerous. All too real.
That look that Eric and vi exchanged after the “technically California is a burning bush right now” was priceless. Vi looks so pleased with herself lol.
she looks smug. How insensitive.
This is one of the best ever. So good I kept wondering if it was a spoof. "Did God go out for a pack of smokes and never come home?" Hope I can remember that!
If I didn't want my creatures to eat apples, I wouldn't create apple trees.
God puts knowledge in front of people who are regularly depicted with belly buttons... Think about that...
All knowing, but doesn't anticipate the serpent?
So Satan defeats God, which proves God isn't all powerful...
Satan is also known as the "light bringer" which kind of implies he brought knowledge....
Which also begs the question... If God created everything, why did he create Satan?
My Q: how the F was the serpent getting around without “crawling on its belly” after the “Curse”?
Then there’s the really cool way that Eve reacted to the talking snake. Your average person would have some problems with a talking snake but Eve - not only is unfazed but is actually convinced by it.
Something something mysterious ways, yada yada free will.
@@AC-gb7do Look, I've seen the girls who leave the bar with one loser after another, in some cases a talking snake is a step up.
No,.... Seriously....
lol
Some do, the most don't...
I can't judge... I just met a lady....lol
@@Phreemunny Something wicked this way comes....
The Serpent was not Satan.
God was outdone by one of his first creations, Adam's crazy first wife Lilith. It was she, not Lucifer, who took a serpentine form to fuck up the new happy couple.
One more thing. Atheists are not sinners. It is impossible for them to be sinners. Sin is wrongdoing against god. If your beliefs don't involve a deity then you may do wrong but it isn't sin. It is impossible for an Atheist to sin. Original sin is a joke.
Well, no, the question of whether an act is a "sin" would hinge on whether the god is real, not whether the person believes in that god. So an atheist could be a sinner - if a god is real.
Lmao, this is the second time I have heard someone say sin changed DNA. I can't even begin to understand how that makes sense.
God already knows who is going to go to Heaven and Hell? So God is playing games with everyone.
Hoooooooooooooo Boyyy
That final pro abortion blow from V was God tier. 🙏
Vi and Eric: From 12:06-12:1 was one of the funniest things I've seen; Eric trying to deal with Brandon and getting a little distracted with Vi's California is technically a burning bush remark. You oughta use that as a trailer or even a bumper: anything as long as you use it; it's too good not to be used. It the anger temper Brandon ignited in me too.
The look on Vi's face when she takes a shot at Eric with her... California..burning bush... comment is priceless!
MY Birthday is August 28! VIRGO POWER!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Vi! Many returns of the day!
Brandon certainly knows how to dance! Tappity tappity tap tap.
He reminds me of a Puppeter doing their mating dance.
I understood that reference!
Still waiting for my smokes
Watching this show has been a good learning curve.
I understand why Americans are alone in the western world as a theistic nation...this position grates against the current world.
What will happen?
So sad. And that we interact w/ people like him on a regular basis. Ugh. Thank you so much for every host on this show for offering to educate these people to hopefully help them become better!
If Gawd had meant for people to be nekkid, they would get born that way.
Vi, that burning bush joke made my whole day!!!🤣😂
"If the story is true, then wouldn't it just be nonsensical for God to play games with your soul, after he went to so much trouble, that you wouldn't have to go to hell?"
Precisely.
I'm in love watching them host together ❤ love watching my two favorite athiest crushes crush it on talk heathen
I think what happened in the Garden of Eden was that Adam and Eve ate a bad apple, had horrendous diarrhea, and then suddenly felt ashamed from their poopy butts and decided they needed to start wearing clothes.
Also why does that whole the man child shall crush the head of the snake thing seem like a hilarious old timey reference to butt sex?
Sin-Sex changed the DNA!
I stopped believing in God two years ago and He has not showed up, spoken, or done anything to bring me back.
God is cruel when he gambles with our souls through faith if he truly loved us he would show us in reality he is real
Is it any wonder mental health is such a big issue?
Vi and Eric look like some real cool dudes to Hang out!!! 😁😂
Brandon will now tell why a Christian from a denomination other than his is going to Hell?
Why does God need DNA? Doesn't Isaiah say that we are woven together in our mother's womb? So....
He didn't need it......until later when (unfortunately) science discovered DNA
And then he of course retrofittingly had to figure it out too
First time I've heard of "shape shifting" DNA 🤔
So if Sin is in our DNA, if we find the ability to change our DNA, we can remove Sin? I want to know where it is in iur DNA
Brandon is a truly elegant example of religion turning human minds to dogshit.
Makes sense to me...
original sin somewhat bites itself with the demand that at leisure the other side may call crimes like burnings obsolete for being from long-ago - but that apple story - that crawls through your blood, you know?
If someone walked up to him performing magic tricks claiming they're God and that they're going to kill his children so he can take their souls to heaven, would he just let them go? What's the difference? How would he know?
If we are born in sin, don’t talk to me- talk to the manufacturer.
It's unfathomable how much precious time people waste trying to read and re-read the Bible so that it somehow explains reality. It doesn't, it never has, and it never will. If God can't be seen, can't be felt, can't be measured with any equipment we can create, can't be heard, and is supposedly outside our universe, and can't have any effect on our universe, He therefore doesn't exist. The whole idea that we were perfect until we started thinking for ourselves is at the heart of religion, and is the most damaging idea humans have ever invented.
The veracity of something has nothing to do with how much it should be doubted initially.
The caller is all over the place. It’s difficult to understand if you don’t focus on one thing at a time.
Wait, if orgasm is the cause of original sin, wouldn't that mean that a clone would be born without it?
Well, if the sin is in the DNA, then the clone would inherit the orgasm sin from the cloned person I guess, if that stuff Brandon described were real.
St. Augustine was hella weird.
I don't think my sins are original.
I'm sure somebody thought of them before I did.
There is no" sin" because a judgemental deity doesnt really exist, but that humans make mistakes is evident...
What the hell is "orgasims"? A new The Sims game?
If they make it open world again, I'm pre-ordering that shit :)
The main question is what would an infant be doing in Paradise...
As a rational thinking person (atheist and anti theist) born in the first half of last century, I can't comprehend the mental contortions and gymnastics 'believers' are willing to perform to support archaic, irrelevant, and nonsensical myths and legends from the first century.
As to original sin listen to rabbi's comments. Of course they were the first to shake hands with the king of genocide as being ok.
The Brothers Grimm were happy optimists!
I'm confused as to the concept of Hell as opposed to Heaven. As far as I'm aware, when we go to heaven, we have an eternity to serve the chosen 144,000 (given current stellar theory, the Universe is going to be dark in about 150 trillion years and I guess that is when "god" winds shit up). That sounds like a horror to me; it would be kind of cool to make 100 years; to me anyway.. The idea of existence for 1.5 trillion times that long boggles my mind. The best answer I could get from a theist was "but you could spend 200 years learning to play the flute" and I riposted with, "what are you going to do with the other 149.999999999999 trillion years?" How is that different to eternal punishment in Hell?
God appears on the road to Damascus...
Sometime later gets run over by a drunken Roman Centurion in a chariot...
THAT is why he hasn't been back....
Dogma run over by a primitive Karma....
LOL
The serpent isn't Satan/The Devil according to to Bible. The conflating of those 2 characters happened long after the Christian Bible was completed.
So total tangent, not discussed at all in the call, but I've always thought it was ironic that there's such an emphasis on the fact that before sin, again and Eve were naked and unashamed, and only became ashamed of their nakedness after sin, so why is the church so big on modesty? Isn't it good to be able to be naked and unashamed? But instead they lean into ppl fall for temptation, especially putting the most pressure on women and young girls to not tempt men, rather than saying, 'hey, don't give into temptation!' I'd think that being able to be unbothered by nakedness should be the greatest sign of righteousness 🤷🏽♀️🤣
Brandon, like many religious apologists, wants to tell other people they’re not interpreting his old book of fairy tales correctly, even though he can’t prove he knows the correct interpretation.🤤
Don’t let him gish gallop with all the claims!
"But that's... that's... You hang up on me every time as soon as I get something you can't explain..."
Brandon means that Eric can't explain it so Brandon can understand it. Brandon is not the sharpest tool in the drawer, but he's certainly a tool. For religion to disappear, we need more people like Brandon promoting fantasy beliefs.
You tell 'em, Brandon!
If God is pure truth and can NOT lie...was he telling the truth when Adam and Eve were hiding from him and he called out "Where are you?".... Either he really didn't know and needed them to reveal themselves. Or he was lying...all knowing, but not all truthful. All truthful, but not all knowing.
This call makes me so glad that I dont believe any of that bullshit
It makes me glad I no long believe this shit
Apparently, Adam and Eve supposedly doesn't know good and evil before they ate the forbidden fruit. They even doesn't know what "disobedience" is. And God, an omnipotent and omniscient being, should know that creating two naive people without the knowledge of evil and good, putting them in the middle of paradise, where a tree bearing forbidden fruit is also placed, and leaving them with a sweet deceiving talking serpent, is the perfect ingredients to humanity fall...
Also, why _wouldn't_ they trust the snake? They had never even heard that it was possible not to tell the truth (although, strictly speaking, the snake did tell the truth) nor be misleading. They had no reason not to trust literally everything everyone ever said to them.