It's definetly legit. however, It does not indicate his skill as a passer. Magic, Bird, Jokic, LeBron, Kidd, CP3, and more are all clearly better passers but stockton gets put on a higher pedistal (people saying hes a top 5 passer) than he deserves because of the assist record which is objectively just dumb. To me, having stockton that high as a passer or a top 30-40 player ever is indication that you don't watch the game and just look at numbers
@djketchuponthebeat LeBron and Bird are not better passers than Stockton. My top 5 point guards are Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, J Kidd and Chris Paul. Everyone in that list is a top 40 player on the NBA top 75 list. So your claim goes against the opinion of many people. So if Stockton is not top 30 to 40, or any of the other players I listed not as well?
John Stockton was the epitome of a pg. He ran the offense, set hellacious screens on anyone, passed to players in a position where they could score and he played tough defense. Steph Curry is a shooting guard playing pg. Stockton was a bulldog on offense and defense with no flash or flair. He just brought his work hat and lunch pail and balled out. The John Stockton hate is absolutely absurd. He was a baller.
I can't stand people always hating on greatness just cause the player they like is not number one but I know is more than that but I don't want to go to details but stop hating fanboys just love the game and competition elevate others
Steph is also an all-time great...but Stockton was a pure point guard and so great. I personally haven't seen much hate towards Stockton. More towards Curry really. Lol. I hate debates against different eras. There's no way to really compare. I really think the greats from years ago would definitely be greats today...because they would also have the same training and things that guys do now. It would be the same. Oscar, Jordan, Bird, Chamberlain, Stockton and all the rest would be just as great today, because they wanted it and had that work-ethic and drive
Exactly this. Curry might be a "better player", but he is _not_ a better point guard. Stockton's probably the best *_pure_* PG all time, bar none, even though I'd say Isiah was a better player. I still have Magic as the best PG, though. ...as contradictory as some of that sounded, lol.
@@FernandoDiaz-d6z Meh. They don't really know anything. It's annoying, but you can't do much about ignorance. They have all the world's information at their fingertips and... choose to ignore it.
One thing that I don't hear talked about a lot, not talked about at all really, is John Stockton's eyes, specifically what exactly he's looking at. Watch like 25-50 clips of him... what is he even looking at, most of the time? Feet? Hips? Space between players? Away from everything (nothing) on purpose, so as to not give anything away? It honestly looks like he's not even looking at anything specific, he's staring at nothing in particular, doing it all based off peripherals. Or in other words, he's truly NOT looking at any one thing (unless he's shooting or about to fake a shot), and that's because he's consciously looking at EVERYTHING, instead. It kind of sounds crazy to claim that this is one of the core elements to his success, but that's literally the whole idea of a pure point guard, isn't it? If one could somehow train themselves to see and assess everything that's happening on the court, not getting too keyed in on any one thing, and then know what the best possible play is (on either offense or defense), and then make that play, how would that start? It would start with training your eyes and brain to see and process more than the one specific thing your eyes are currently pointed at. Then, once you've mastered peripheral vision and whole-view processing, work on picturing/knowing where players are going to be, once your head is turned, and they are out of your peripheral (AKA "third eye" or "The Sight"). Then, make sure you can dribble/control/protect the ball while you're doing that insane court vision stuff, and not only that, deliver the ball at exactly the right time to the exact right location that allows your teammate to firstly, receive the pass without it being turned over, and secondly, be in a position to score. Also, learn the game to the level that you know exactly what's going on at any given moment, specifically what kind of plays the other team is trying to run and what exact phase of the play they are in, and even more specifically, know exactly what other players can or can't/don't see at any given moment, so that you know when to commit to a pick-pocket, then execute that whole sequence better than anyone else has ever done, by a long shot. Also, don't worry about the size of the guys you're up against - set the screens anyway, and never back down. In fact, seek out a little bit of contact and the opportunity to put someone in foul trouble because they didn't see you, and they ran you over. Get under other guys skin with the little things, get in their heads a little bit to encourage some chippy behavior, but never let them even phase you, not in the slightest. Be a machine of precision and perpetuity. On that note (pun intended), go against the grain and be even MORE durable as a player, possibly the most durable of all time. And, of course, make sure you can make 90% of your free throws, and at least 40% of your 3's. = John Stockton He did a lot of things better than anyone else has ever done them, and some of that is represented in recorded stats, but to summarize, the 2 things that stand out to me that fueled these records are 1: his "third eye" ability, specifically how he seemed to be looking nowhere but saw everything, and 2: his durability/longevity. John Stockton was the water that Bruce Lee referred to, basketball version.
On the other hand this dude's consistency was crazy. He played 82 games like 90% of his career. Almost never missed games and always stuffed the stat sheet. His ast and stl records are crazy.
Even the season with 50 games was the strike shorted season in which he played all 50 games. 😂 He missed 4 games one year and 22 another year. That was it. For 19 season. Respect.
There is a certain type of athleticism to being a tough SOB. I think it was Chris Webber talking about trying to knock Stockton out of his shoes with a screen in his rookie season only to have Stockton bounce up and remark good screen young fella.
@@kaybigg what did you even say, lmao, yes I watch the era of basketball I’m a fan of the sport and watch the evolution of the game, ratings don’t really determine the quality of basketball, more just how the storylines are
These are terminally online beefs. Nobody who played with or actually watched John Stockton could doubt his greatness with a straight face. Hes a hall of famer for a reason.
I'm glad people like you are still around. You keep the legacy and the past of the NBA alive. As a 17-year-old kid who has been watching since 2011 I have nothing but respect for past players. Stockton deserves more respect than he's given.
John Stockton is not just the totals leader in assists, he also holds the assists per 36 minutes, assists per 100 possessions and assist percentage all-time career records. He holds the per-100 and assist percentage records in the playoffs, as well. He led the league in assists AND assists per game 9 times - consecutively. He led the league in steals per game and steals percentage twice in the regular season and twice in the playoffs. He led the league in True Shooting thrice, and has 6 seasons in the 50/40/80 club (he only ever averaged 90+% on his freethrows in the playoffs, which he did thrice). His team made the playoffs in each of his 19 seasons, and in those 19 regular seasons he received MVP votes in 12, 11 consecutive, and DPOY votes in two of those. He averaged 31.8 minutes per game and missed 22 games for the entirety of his career. In the playoffs, he averaged 35.2 and missed no games. John Stockton had availability, and while he was available, he also was the best distributor the game has ever seen, and more than pulled his weight on the defensive end - in the 87 playoffs, he led the league in Defensive Box Plus/Minus. To quote Wilt Chamberlain in 1988, when asked which single player he would start a franchise with, "I like Johnny Stockton, I think he's the most complete person in his position."
I've seen John Stockon throw a pass that flew past multiple defenders on five straight possessions against the spurs and those passes were through VERY TIGHT windows that even the best of the best cant replicate without missing the cutter 2 or 3 times. But this was ROUTINE for him. He frequently did this to cutters and shooters. He was far and away the most accurate passer in the history of the game and he also has an Assist to TO ratio that's the highest.
Awesome video man. I grew up in Chicago during the 90's and went to a ton of Bulls games. Stockton was fucking terrifying in those last two finals. He was incredible. Even Pippen could barely slow down his offensive output. Anyone saying Stockton isn't a top 3 PG all-time just doesn't know their shit. He has the numbers, and he had the in-game aura. Like you said, ask Payton.
Pippen was not on stockton. He was a free-roamer that was put on their center. Stockton was also stopped quite a bit except when Kerr was in the game. Harper and Randy Brown did a decent job which is why he mostly struggled in both series to be aggressive at all. His assists were also down from the norm. That said, the Bulls were only the best defensive team in the east at the time basically which meant they were basically the best defensive team in the NBA. Stockton annihilated a lot of good western guards like Terry Porter, Payton, KJ, etc.
Stockton averaged like 13 points, 9 assists, and 3 rebounds in 12 Finals games. Some people are over compensating with nostalgia and/or are easily terrified. Stockton was really good for a long time. He was the best at compiling assists and steals. And nobody ever thought he was a serious MVP candidate. You can argue he had the best career of any point guard but he was rarely even considered the best point guard in the league at any point in his career.
One thing you didn't mention is that Stockton came off the bench in his first three seasons in the league, ranging from 18.2 to 23.6 minutes per game. He immediately led the league in assists when he became a starter and set numerous records for several seasons straight.
Can you imagine? Julius Erving would have 50,000 points and average 80 if they called the game like they do today. No hand checking, can;t touch him, you can carry the ball, and take 5 steps without dribbling. Today's players are an absolute joke. None of the stats for the last 20 years are legit.
The only record that may be unbreakable is the total points scored ,just because Nobody will be able to stay Healty and reach that milestone like Lebron did
Stockton set the assist and steals records 7 and 8 years before he retired. Over 20 years later no one is even remotely close. He was one of the most consistent and durable players of all time. And a tough sob.
Durability is greatly helped by unselfish play. When you're always looking for an open teammate, you won't take as much contact over time, and Stockton was also quick and elusive.
If Stockton played today he’d put up 20+ points and 14 assists 3-4 rebounds and almost 3 steals a game and would be a top 5 3pt shooter in the league. One thing Stockton doesn’t get enough credit for is how good he is at finishing inside. Dude was like Allen Iverson. Was always pound for pound the toughest SOB in the league. He wasn’t soft in the slightest.
@@edwardwalden05 Yes, he will dominate, lmao.. Funny how you only know about his steals, and mommy was still a child when he played, so you didn't watch his game, nor know anything about his offense
@@BōfôDeez a stat called 3PA/game. It wasn't a player league then - when you are not doing what coach is telling you to do you are benched. Front office would back up the coach. And there is no social media to sob about being not able to play your game.
This generation of fans are a joke. To disrespect John Stockton and his legacy is to disrespect the game itself. The definition of the pure Point Guard.
There's video of a 40 years old John Stockton absolutely cooking a young Gilbert Arenas on YT. Just imagine what the 1991 version would have done to Gil.
Of course this sport is sh-it. The black culture is sh-it and just look how many watch the NBA today from 20 & 30 years ago. It’s been going down since the 2000’s. When white people wake up and stop spending their money on this crap, they will have to change. Have you been to a high school basketball game in the last 20 years. lol it’s a clown show. From the single mothers fighting and shooting people, to the entire gym fighting on a foul being called in a high school game.
let's be honest. the only reason this is even a discussion is because stockton is a 6'0" white guy that looks like a dad from the suburbs. if he was 6'4" and black, nobody would be arguing this.
I don't know. I was a kid at the time and Stockton always looked like a baller to me. He looked athletic, like an old-school point guard from the old days, that total look head to toe, you can almost imagine him striking those photo poses like they did back then. He was short, yes, but so what; he was a point guard and he had a definite type of well-established basketball athlete look to him. If you want to talk white guy with a "how tf is _that_ guy doing this" look, now Bird was definitely your unconventional-athlete looking type.
Some people feel that higher assist totals are a product of a flawed scheme that typically doesn’t win at the highest level, and that Stockton is overrated because that’s the biggest reason why he stands out.
@@fortynights1513If I know anything, it's that the common public love their age old logical fallacies. So for the majority... I think I'm gonna go with 'Recency Bias' for 800 Alex.
@@celtics17banners84 that and I believe it's also a by product of the Anti-MJ campaign where you try and discredit him by trying to convince people that everyone and every team he played against were trash.
1) Chris Paul couldn’t hold John Stockton’s jock strap. 2) Look up Stockton’s shooting percentages for 3’s and FT’s, etc. 3) Jordan highly respected him. 4) Dream Team. 5) Played every game. 6) Yes Karl scored a lot of points and that helps but also has a lot to do with JS getting him the ball. 7) He was the man.
I had heard that he actually was a bit of an athletic freak in that he rarely showed any signs of fatigue. While watching as a kid I always thought it was interesting that you never saw Stockton panting through his mouth like every other player would, especially later in the game. He was always breathing through his nose and barely breaking a sweat. Maybe that's part of the reason he was able to play so many games per season for so many seasons at such a consistent level?
So tired of these idiots putting out content dissing long retired NBA players for clicks. They are contributing to the dumbness of young people today. Young people need to learn how to look at things critically and leave the emotion out of it. Taking Stocking's assists on the road in his career and prorating it toward his entire career and having him still be 3,000 assists ahead of Paul is just the chef's kiss. Keep doing what you are doing Jonny. You are fighting the good fight against disinformation.
Idk why people ever thought his assist stats could've been faked. He played 1,504 games, started 1,300 games, and played in all 82 games 16 times. And its not like he had a season averaging something crazy like 20+ assists where you might be able to question that
It's funny when people arguing his stats as being inflated, assist has some room for inflation (modern day is way worse) But his steal numbers are insane and not something your opponent would allow you to inflate 😂
@@mojoechinapeople are skeptical of pre-tracking era stats because it has literally been proven in the case of Michael Jordan that there was extreme bias and inconsistency going on - Stockton’s scrutiny is just a symptom of that skepticism (and it’s not even new, Stockton has generally been underrated and not respected for his entire career and beyond). tbh I also tend to think his playstyle generated a lot of “fake” assists, and is not necessarily conducive to winning due to a reliance on the ability of his co-star. But he was still obviously a very good point guard
He was actually an athletic freak though. Was tough as nails and as strong as an ox for a guy his size. I heard that doctors have done studies on his sitting heart rate. An amazing athlete and amazing player
I met him in person at his basketball camp in the 90s in Spokane. His legs were like tree trunks. Dude was much thicker and stronger than people think.
Your right about Stocktons heart rate. it was said to be in the 30`s. It was also said that Stockton would be fully rested once pair of free throws were shot.
Maybe NOT the most underrated player in history, but definitely in the top ten. Maybe NOT the most disrespected player in history, but definitely in the top ten. Maybe NOT the greater passer in history, but definitely in the top three. Maybe NOT... NEVERMIND He is the ALL TIME LEADER in assists and steals. Don't be a casual, show respect to Mr. Stockton. Thanks Jonny for the Video.
For me, Stockton was never the "best" PG in any season. But Top 3 to 5 EVERY YEAR for practically 19 years? Yeah, that's why Stockton is both...underrated and NOT underrated.
@standingmaximumverticaljump Agreed. That used to annoy me so much when I was young that I don't think I fully appreciated his career until after he retired.
@@jlui21you are a joke! Stockton was the BEST PG in the 80s, no question. WTF are you trolling about? Only Magic and Steph can claim to be the BEST PG for an entiee decade, and Steph is not a real PG by definition
I remember back on one of the old “Open Court” episodes the legend s who played against them were talking about him and Karl. They said they thought Stockton made Malone more than the other way around. And like him or not, Malone was really really good so for Stockton to be the more important one says ALOT. Unless of course your a fool who just wants to hate
One thing Malone benefits from here (in addition to passing obviously), is that Stockton wasn’t looking to score typically. If he was, then naturally Malone gets a few less points at least
@@mohahmed4304It was an adjusted stat to what averaged with Malone vs. without Malone, if he had played the same career without him. But yes... Really impressive, and only goes on to highlight how ridiculously good he was.
The funny thing is, it's this weird circular argument. Haters say that Stockton wasn't that great, because he was propped up by playing with Malone, but those same people will also say that Malone wasn't that great because he was propped up by playing with Stockton. I've never seen anybody trying to dismiss any other great player because of their team mates, but somehow these two absolute legends don't count because they played together.
It's as simple as this - John is the ONLY player leading the all time in two MAJOR stats categories. And he is leading it by a landslide!! The most underrated player ever and it's not close
Another great video spewing facts about 90s greats!!! Thx!! Stockton was a beast and was part of the OG Dream Team for that reason not because Thomas was disliked.
One narrative is that Stockton wasn't athletic, and Jonny confirmed that he is indeed unathletic. I guess Stockton missed too many games, couldn't get any steals, and couldn't run fast breaks, because he was so unathletic. Another narrative is that Stockton didn't have a left hand, and Jonny didn't dispute that, either. I'm not sure how Stockton's go to move was a crossover dribble without a left hand.
Probably one of the most underrated player right now. Gary Payton, the best defender from Pg, said his worst match up wasn’t jordan, wasn’t penny hardaway, or Kobe, but John Stockton.
This earned a sub. The pasty gangster rocked those short shorts and played consistent fundamentally sound ball. Having to rely on his knowledge, experience and understanding gave him an opportunity that not a lot of players who rely on physicality get; longevity.
Gaurds back then weren't allowed to dribble all the time. Defenders were in the grill all the time and like you said, you used your off hand to keep the defense off you.
The "only one hand" narrative sticks with certain guys and follows them forever which really pisses me off. Julius Randle is the guy that they say it about now. It really doesn't matter. Half of the league literally only has one hand and the other 40 percent rarely use their off hand. Truly ambidextrous players are an anomaly, and really don't have that much of an advantage because of it.
@@Davivd2I'm 40 and everyone "knows I never had a left." I can continue to say "why use it when I'm so good with the right." Besides, after a few drives, they'll overplay and I can just spin to the left and finish with the right hand! 😂
I was a laker fan back then and i hated john stockton and karl malone. Those two literally did pick and roll all game long all season long deep into the playoffs. These noobs gonna sit here and tell us pick and roll assists dont count?
Exactly. Long-time Bulls fan. Same response. Hated playing the Jazz. Nothing but respect for Stockton and Malone. Magic and Michael would say the same thing.
Laker Fan myself. Couldn't stand Stockton, but respected him. I wouldn't have been too disappointed, had Jerry West brought Stockton to LA...and I have a feeling you wouldn't have either. Great comments from both of you
@bradbruhn9586 nah..it wasn't like that for me. I hated the rival players. It wasnt until an adult I appreciated them. In fact..if you remember the lakers after magic retired had built up a nice young team. He came back for like the last 20 games and the playoffs. Ruined his legacy to me how he was when he came back. Then they blew up that team to get kobe and shaq. Cant say it was a bad decision but it destroyed me as a fan and in 1995 i jumped ship to the timberwolves and KG. Not the best choice either. 😂
Just because players of today can catch a pass, take six or seven dribbles, make a few pump fakes before shooting. That doesn't mean that it's any less of an assist than a pass then shoot.😂
@@ian0143 dont forget that on STOCKTON ERA KMALONE was the player with more and 1s and those assists didnt count..and neither inbound passes. NOW you see GIANNIS making an inbound pass to DAME who didnt even grab the ball so that the seconds dont count let the ball roll almost at half court grab it throw the ball to the front passing half court took 1 step and made a logo 3 and NBA counted that as an assist
While I still think that it is a valid opinion to have that Magic is the best passer of all-time, the following stat absolutely blew my mind when I first heard it: Everyone points to the fact that Magic’s Assists per Game (APG) is higher than Stockton’s but then discounts Stockton’s total assists because he played for so long. But the only reason that Stockton’s APG are lower than Magic’s is because he played for so long. Stockton had a 5 season stretch, where his average APG was higher than Magic’s single best season APG. Magic’s highest APG season was 13.1. Stockton had between 13.6-14.5 APG for 5 consecutive seasons.
Not to mention that Stockton was drafted onto a team that already had an All-Star at point guard. People forget that Stockton was drafted with the intention of being a backup to Rickey Green and, even though Stockton was already distributing 10 assists per 36 minutes in his rookie year, he wouldn't get starter's minutes until his fourth season in the league.
At the same time, in only 8 less playoff games played, Stockton had over 500 less assists than Magic. Stockton would need to average over 63 assists in those 8 games to tie Magic. Stockton was a compiler. Magic was a winner. How about pointing to that fact?
@@christopherbanuelos2147 You mean when Stockton had Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, and Byron as teammates in the weak West, and Magic only had Karl his entire career in the stacked West?? Never mind, I wasn't pointing out a fact
@@christopherbanuelos2147 You mean the fact that Magic with twice Stockton's turnovers per game, half the defense, half the shooting efficiency who had the most help in history in the weak West, with the one of the best coaches in history, a top 5 player in history who happens to be a GOAT center, a top 5 SF, and multiple All stars and HOFers is a winner, and Stockton who had only a 13th pick as his helper in a stacked West is a compiler?? Makes sense.. No wonder you're using emojis
I've known about your gaming channel (Zeltroid) for a few years, but this video (and the time I'm leaving this comment) is how I finally found your basketball channel. Amazing job breaking down all the arguments against Stockton's greatness and legacy. As someone who was heartbroken when Jordan denied Stockton not one but two NBA championships, or at least as heartbroken as was possible in this particular context, I always enjoyed watching Stockton's highlights when I was a child and teenager, and even with my flawed eyes (which are now even more flawed as I'm on the wrong side of 40), I could see that Stockton was great.
Stockton is one of my favorite players. Played the right way, seldom missed games, gave it his all every night. Very smart and tough player. An all time great. Thank you for this video.
Jonny, thanks a lot for this video and defending the legacy of many old all-time greats, without diminishing modern players and game. It's so rare this days. I extend even more my thanks to the specific case of John Stockton because he was my second favorite player back in the 90's, just behind MJ. And still today he navigates easily in my top 5 PG ever (from the 2nd to the 4th spot, depending on the mood).
Excellent video. John Stockton was absolutely amazing. He also had a crazy motor. He was a super tough iron man who never missed games, & he has a basketball IQ to match. John Freakin' Stockton!
No one is forgetting that. Unfortunately, he (and Karl) didn't have much else going for them, other than each other much of the time. Thurl Bailey was a good, not great solid player. Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek as well. But they were not there that long with the Jazz.
Where would Magic have been without Wilkes, Worthy, Kareem and Scott? Where would Steph be without KD and Klay Thompson? Where would Cousey be without Russell? Where would Gary Payton be without Shawn Kemp or Xavier McDaniel and where would Isaiah be without Kelly Tripuka, Adrian Dantley, Joe Dumars or Bill Laimbeer?
Out of all the greats that did not win a championship because of MJ… John is my personal favorite. As pure of a point guard as can be and is more reliable and more dependable under pressure than most of the overpaid, entitled, and me first cry babies of today’s NBA.
Yeah...I agree. I hate the Championship Counting Method. By that Logic Mike Smrek is a better player than Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Tracey McGrady and Elgin Baylor. Your Comment Rocked my friend
I was born and raised in Utah. I've been a Jazz fan since I started following the NBA around the age of 8 or 9. The Jazz were tough AF in the late 90s. The only reason they didn't win titles in '97 and '98 is because their finals opponent was the greatest team ever assembled (in my opinion). They went up against Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, and other hall of famers who were led by Phil Jackson. That's a legendary team. They swept the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in the playoffs during one of those seasons, and I'm pretty sure they beat them 4 to 1 in the other. Stockton was the heart and soul of the Jazz at that time. Without him, they wouldn't have stood a chance, and he's still underrated to this day. I love seeing videos like this that give him the credit he deserves. One of the best things about Stockton is that he was on the same team for all of his 19-year career. He is beloved out here. There are even streets named after him in SLC. Thanks for showing him some love and respect. I appreciate the video.
I went to Oregon state the same time Gary Payton enrolled. I ran across his path about 3 times it’s a small town. First I was at the gym doing stairs as a work out and I saw this skinny black freshman in practice moving impossibly fast. Then I ran into him at the movies in the line with some hot black girl, I presume his girlfriend at the time. 3rd time he for some reason wanted to play rat ball at the student recreation center where we would all play pick up games and the reward for winning is you get so stay on the court and face the next or same challenger. I had play against Payton and he was impossibly fast like on another level then we all could function at. For example one time he got the rebound and was down to the other end before I could even turn around.
@@fortynights1513 definitely. Greg Ostertag was their main center then and he was tne prototypical uncoordinated, unathletic big whose only skill was being tall and having fouls to give.
It’s a mistake to just assume Stockton wasn’t an athletic freak without actually looking into it. Stockton doesn’t make sense to people in part because they assume he wasn’t athletic and had to be some sort of genius to be that much better than other point guards, and that level of genius just isn’t apparent from watching him. But Stockton _was_ an athletic freak. He just didn’t jump high. He was very quick and had insane conditioning - arguably the best cardiovascular endurance in the history of the NBA. He was the fastest rookie the team had ever seen - as in they had a player nicknamed “the fastest of them all” and he ran circles around him. He still holds Jazz conditioning drill records. He ran a casual 18:30 5k without working too hard in practices. His shooting efficiency is in part driven by his insane cardio - where he would run hard both sides of the court, draw a foul, and have a normal heart rate by the time he shot his free throws. When Payton talks about how hard Stockton was to guard, listen to what he says. He doesn’t talk about basketball IQ or fundamentals. He doesn’t talk about genius passing. He doesn’t even talk about dribbling. He talks about activity and work rate. Elite scorers even if Payton couldn’t stop them from making shots would pause and rest. Stockton did a lot less of that and would be moving to the next play and the next and the next in steady succession all game. Chris Paul is better than Stockton… at 100%. But how long is Chris Paul at 100%? Stockton was at 100% for most of every game. Stockton was faster than Chris Paul, stronger than Chris Paul, and in better shape than Chris Paul and would run harder and play harder than Chris Paul and recover better than Chris Paul and thus get hurt a lot less than Chris Paul and that’s a big part of why he has so many more assists than Chris Paul and more steals than Chris Paul and never missed the playoffs in 19 seasons including two where he won Olympic gold over the summer. The edge is athletics. He just had the athletics of a soccer player instead of a basketball player and was white and looked like a dork so people look past it.
Stockton is probably my favorite player of all time but that said he routinely seemed to have problems against Kevin Johnson - who may be ne of the more underrated PGs of the 90s era.
@@fortynights1513 the actual meaning of an assist is you pass the ball to someone who scores without a dribble, nowadays you can pass it to a guy who scores off of a step back jumper and it'll be counted as an assist
John Stockton being #1 career all time in assists and steals is phenomenal. And the distance between total assists from John to Chris Paul and everybody else is massive
I'll keep saying it. Jonny's channel is by far my favorite RUclips channel discussing all things ball related. John is the best point guard of all time, then Magic, then Steph.
I am a "Ride & Die" Stockton fan. Not because I personally know him. Stockton's fundamentals, work ethic, vision and stamina are unmatched in the PG position. Thank you for giving John Stockton his flowers.
Stockton: Home Games: In 751 games 8,174 assists, averg. 10.9 assists per game. Away Games: Across 753 games 7,632 assists, averg. 10.1 assists per game. Magic: Home Games: In 448 games, 5,197 assists, averg.11.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 458 games 4,954 assists, averg. 10.8 assists per game. Paul: Home Games: In 655 games 6,310 assists, averg.9.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 643 games 5,802 assists, averg. 9.0 assists per game. James: Home Games: In 771 games, 5,848 assists, averg. 7.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 745 games 5,364 assists, averg. 7.2 assists per game.
@@fortynights1513 Thi honestly just makes it look like all players just have better numbers at home - but the margin is very small. I think that mightve been the point this guy was makin. That its actually invalid
You should mention that JS was also statistically one of the most clutch players ever (unlike Malone). I forget what stats measure this, but I'm sure you'll find them if you Google it.
exactly right ..... he's the reason, why we didn't see the nba finals,bulls vs. rockets .... the dream,sir charles & the glyde vs. air jordan,pippen & rodman .... while watching it live,i was so pissed he did hit that 3 point shot that sent the jazz to the finals ..... 😂🤣😂🤣-🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Inside The NBA once trolled Chuck with a clip of moments he'd like to redo. Most were silly, but when they showed JS hitting that 3 over him, he looked shell-shocked.😂It's called "Charles Barkley 51.9 Seconds."
I loved watching the guy drop 30 points when his team needed it. He had that in his bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter when nobody was shooting 40 percent. This guy feared nobody or any moment that arose.
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Let's not forget the Pacers had a 4th quarter lead in game 7 of that series against the Bulls. If they didn't choke that game away, that '98 final could have been Jazz vs Pacers. That would have been one hell of a series as well. It would have also pissed off the NBA front office having two of the smallest markets in the finals at that time.
There is an interview with Magic stating that Stockton is a better pure point guard then himself. When one of the NBA goats said your better than him at something it should mean something.
Stock really _was_ a better PURE point but Magic was a better _player_ specifically _BECAUSE_ he was more versatile. All of the GOATs had extremely varied skillsets. There are times when you have to be something different from what you usually are in order to win.
Yes usually points facilitate where the ball goes in the opening drive. Not necessary scoring. Magic could do both and with his height he got more open looks. That's why I think the comparison between MJ and LeBron is unwarranted because they are different players. MJ is a scorer and LeBron is more of a facilitator with a power forward body.
@@darkiori87 LeBron's game is WAY more like Magic's than Jordan's, I agree. It's not fair to compare him to MJ because he actually has way more responsibility on the offense. He's one of only five players ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists for entire seasons (only Tiny Archibald did both in the same season) and along with Cousy, Jerry West and Magic is one of four PGs to lead the league in assists the same year they led their team to a championship.
Magic is being humble.... then again if Stockton had the Showtime Lakers I guess he too would have the assist per game record and would have had a pace of 15000 assists in 17 seasons like Magic did.
I watched this video based on the title. I thought this would be a video criticizing his ability and I was ready to piss myself off. I was not a Utah Jazz fan, but I always appreciated excellence. Stockton and Malone always delivered an excellent game.
@@CorneliusMagnus now thats definitely not the main reason why ratings are down, but if you think about it, if younger people regurgitate stuff like that 24/7 on the greats of the past, why would any older fan want to watch the games? At least, a decent amount of them will be disgusted enough not to tune in anymore..
@@CorneliusMagnus Younger fans want to focus on what they are seeing, and think it is the best. Older fans remember history and context, so they educate the younger fans. The League has constantly and intentionally made offense easier and defense harder, so it casts doubt on the legitimacy of the current NBA. The NBA, ESPN, and Klutch don't want people to notice that, so they feed younger fans BS and try to discredit the past players. Don't look behind the curtain and educate yourself on the history of the game. When I was a kid, I read all about the players of the past that I had never seen. I wanted to know the history. I couldn't really compare them to the present, but I still valued that history. Like many have said, no other sport denigrates the past to prop up the present. We even say that you can't really compare eras, because of rules changes and styles of schemes of play. But the current era is insecure and feels lacking, so they lash out at the past players. I also think Social media and 24/7 media coverage leads to block heads talking out of their butts. Gilbert Arenas, Kendrick Perkins, SAS, Nick Wright, etc. all mouthing off with stupid stuff, just to get people talking, whether for or against them, it is engagement, content.
It's a PART of why ratings are way down. Not THE reason. I'd say the bigger reason is the terrible play on the floor, with all the rules favoring offense, but kids and even modern players hating old legends is most definitely up there.
@@shorewallGreat post. I also respected legends I never really watched play. Kareem was mostly before my time. My Dad loved Dr J. I studied the careers of Jerry West, Wilt, Bill, even down to role players turned coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. I love American history. World history and NBA history. I don't think there's a lot of kids who feel that way anymore, and that disappoints me. I'd love to talk about past players with the younger fans.
People have no idea how it was playing basketball in the 80s and 90s. Hand check: legit. Point guards: mainly facilitator than scoring machines. John Stockton has been one of the best point guards ever, period.
As a 19 year old that's a representative of Gen Z, I just want to say that not all members of my generation foolishly slander and disrespect all time great like that. Stockton holds 2 records that may be more untouchable than LeBron's scorign record.
I grew up in Utah in the 90s. No better time to be a Jazz fan. Ever since then I have struggled to be a fan of any of the future Jazz teams. Stockton was one of a kind and fun to see play game after game.
During the all-star game of 1989 Wilt Chamberlain was on the broadcast and was asked, "if you were still playing and could take any guy in the league as a teammate, who you takin?" without hesitation he responded: Little Johnny Stockton. Wilt, like Karl Malone, had the endurance and quickness to haul ass down the floor on made and missed possession changes. He knew that if he had a guy like Stockton during his career who could feed him the ball the way he does the Mailman, he would have had 5,000 more points in his career. This is why Utah was so good for so long. Because they had a 270 pound monster flying up the court on every single posession with another guy who could make every read and pass there is and who'd take your lunch money if you got careless with the ball. Every game. Every single posession. For 20 years those two dudes relentlessly outran and outworked whoever had the misfortune of trying to guard them.
8:07 actually, no. the nba said that the league itself tracks the stats not by scorekeepers for their teams. it arose following the accusation that jjj had rigged stats bc his numbers at home were just that better than his stats away that were eventually disproven
Great feedback! This raises 2 thoughts... 1, has it always been this way? 2, if this has indeed always been the case, then the criticisms about Stockton's "home-brewed stats" look even dumber. Lol
I think it’s a question of how many dribbles you get and it still counts as an assist. Stockton had many passes to Malone that lead to assists but Malone dribbled for ten seconds.
My favorite player of all time (deservedly). 2 records that will never be touched. And it ain’t close. Especially when both the stats are about giving effort and being unselfish. One of the most underrated players ever, easily. Wish these kids could have seen his greatness. It’s also nice to see someone that knows their stuff on basketball. You’ve earned yourself a subscriber, my friend. Cheers.
I can't remember any opponent of his that didn't respect him and praised him. So, even he didn't have left (and that's not completely true) he was hell of a player making all these plays with only one hand. If not for a Stockton who knows how much points Malone would have. Stockton was an ultimate competitor
The only guy to not give Stockton a complete compliment was kerr... he whined about Stockton being dirty. It's kerr that's proven himself to be a complete wuss.
I disagee - -mainly because outside the current narrative (which I haven't paid much attention to), older folks that talked about the game always seemed to gloss over Stockton when his record was brought up. The make excuses as toe why the team was good - and then go on to downplay who he was to make a point about Magic. If you didn't experience this in the early 2000s, you were either too young, or too old (and probably spreading this same nonsense).
Thank you to give him his credits. He's the definition of the original PG, I take him over anybody for this role. Also about the Malone helped him part, why all the PGs who played with a dominant big dont have 10 assists per game? You can have the best hooper with you, if you cant find him he wont score.
Apart from their talents, the top point guards assist averages are also impacted by what share of their teams passing they do. And no knock on Stockton here, but it sounds like the Jazz didn’t have much of a secondary playmaker in his earlier career.
good way to end the video with payton's comment - i was gonna mention it. his assists and steals records will not be broken for some time, and its already been 20+ years. not a particularly flashy or entertaining player (or even one that i rooted for), but one of the most fundamentally sound and consistent basketball players i've watched. don't take my word for it, just ask the glove.
This man is BY FAR the most underrated player in the history of the NBA. Listen to some of his peers stories about him. Tough as nails and always brought his A game.
I first saw Stockton when he was in college and thought he would be a really good pro. Why, because he was really, really fast. Hands, feet, starts, stops. He was a great point guard .
@@jatdb51t Do you remember that it was Earvin who broke Oscar Robertson's record for assist in the early nineties? Earvin then retired because he got H.I.V. So Earvin didn't necessary get to build upon his record. Despite a brief return in nineteen ninety six. So John easily broke Earvin record. Not to dispute the fact that John was a very good point guard. But there is a reason why he is the all-time leader in assists. No complaints about John being the all-time leader in steals. That's legit.
@@jatdb51tThere’s also the fact that that’s a per game stat, and we didn’t really see Magic get the longevity he could’ve. We didn’t exactly get to see him decline. Conversely though, Magic could have been closer to where Stockton is in assists.
@@fortynights1513 he might have, or he might have fallen off with age. But we will never know. We can only give magic credit for what he actually did. The point I was trying to make is Stockton became #1 in assists all time during the 94-95 season, he was #1 in assists per game at that time. He played past his prime and dropped to #2 all time in assists per game during the 98-99 season.
My guy Jonny Arnett happy holidays… Im 59 Mo Cheeks and Zeke are my fav PGs but John was Solid on both sides of the court and he had a left hand dribbling passing etc and he belongs where he is in the history of the Game…
You are right about the durability, but look at his averages when he was in his prime. It's not that he played every game, but he was 2 to 3 assists ahead of Magic every season. So Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, or whoever you want to plug in. Playing 82 games a year isn't going to close that gap, and none of those guys are going to go past 12 APG when Stockton was getting 13 to 15.
If Chris Paul wasn't almost Biblically unlucky he would have a chip. I personally think CP3 is better than Stockton was (and I was born in the 70s) but he'll never get the credit because 1) he changed teams (even though it wasn't his fault) and 2) he didn't play in a mythologized era. Paul is like Stockton with way more athleticism and versatility, fewer weaknesses... and NO KARL MALONE
@@MICjordanTPR Curious. What are Stockton's weaknesses, the Chris Paul doesn't have? You mentioned the athleticism. which basically means he can jump higher.
I love how MJs weakness was 3pt shooting the first 4 seasons. Than after that he turned a weakness into a strength. The man worked so hard he truly had no weakness
@rmuzic6531 you don't need to lead the the league to turn it into a Strength. He went from shooting in the teens to shooting lower 30%. Almost what the league average is now. What are you even talking about
@ricosauve5 Mann please do your research before posting something this stupid. MJ barely took any 3 pt attempts...he usually might of taken less than 20 attempts for a entire season. His career avg was 1.7 in comparison LBJ is 4.7, and Kobe whose game was similar to MJ career avg was 4.1. He never turned it into a strength because he didn't take to many of them. He had one hot game against the blazers in the finals with 6 in the first half and people want to think he turned it into a strength lol ..man I'm 45 and seen all of this. Yes his avg improved because he might hit 1 once in a while but that was never his strength and he didn't need it.
@@rmuzic6531He didn’t turn it into a total strength per se, but he did indeed get better at it. Plus, he himself said that he didn’t want to focus too much on improving his 3pt shooting because it would take away other aspects of his game.
It's so stupid: everyone says Stockton couldn't have gotten his assists without Malone, and everyone says Malone couldn't get his points without Stockton. Sounds like they were both legendary to me
They would have both been great regardless but they wouldn't have set those kinds of insane records without playing with each other for _EIGHTEEN YEARS_ and pretty much never missing a game. The best pure point of all time played for TWO DECADES with the game's premier pick-and-roll threat of their era. What other time did that EVER happen?
I like most of Rusty's content, but he is out of left field on Stockton. It's like he's mad at Stockton, but no one really rates Stockton too highly? No one puts Stockton over anyone he shouldn't be. Most people have Isaiah over him, because of the championships. But Stockton clears CP3 by a mile, due to longevity. Pound for pound, they are close, but when Stockton is over 3000 assists ahead, and also the record holder for steals, you can't argue that. CP3 made a finals, Stockton made 2. Maybe if CP3 won against Giannis, he could clear Stockton. But he didn't, so he will never clear Stockton.
Rusty Buckets’s deep dive videos are really good at what they do. As for his take on Stockton, it really comes down to the way he views how point guards were told to play in the 80’s and 90’s. He views pass-first point guards as an inherently flawed concept because he thinks that just about all schemes where there is only one player doing most of the playmaking are too predictable. I see why one could say Stockton is overrated by some, but he did his job well. I honestly think Rusty’s arguments are a better case for Stockton’s coaches being overrated as opposed to him.
Great video, Jonny! Nice job in debunking the narratives about Stockton. I remember seeing the "no left hand" criticism of Jordan too. It's ridiculous. As you said, if that narrative was true, he's even more impressive. The other criticisms also are so ignorant. Basketball is a TEAM sport and I like the examples you listed (of the teammates that other stars had). I'm looking forward to your video about LeBron's assists next month. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were errors. I like LeBron, but it's like you said - people make mistakes and I don't think we have any eras without imperfections in how stats are counted (because people are imperfect, as you said). Stockton is an incredible and one of the best point guards to have ever played. He was skilled on both sides of the court. His longevity is incredible and so was his endurance (amazing how he missed very few games) and skills. He was fun to watch. Great work again in fact checking and debunking the narratives. Have a great day, Jonny!
When Haberstroh started that kerfluffle talking about how Jordan's steals were inflated, I said, "You just opened Pandora's box, and you aren't going to like what you find." Because if we go back for every player and recount their stats, Lebron ain't gonna like that either. And you can't just pick and choose. Because if you want to cherry pick a few games of Jordan's to cast doubt, then we really need to go back and recount every single damn game, for every player, in order to get accurate stats. But he wants to selectively pick a few of Jordan's to cast doubt on MJ, while thinking that no one would do that for Lebron? Naive.
Man, this video was very entertaining. Just made me subscribe. As a person who has seen John Stockton play at basketball games...I totally agree with everything said here.
@GrapeTeaNews I disagree. I will have to say Magic and then Oscar Robertson, however, you can make a case for Stockton. He gave my Lakers fits. Though I disagree, your opinion is credible and respectable. John Stockton is truly underrated and one of the greats
@@christopherbanuelos2147 Magic was 6’9 running up and down the court. Could you imagine if he played with Shaq in Orlando when Shaq was running the court. Unstoppable!
I watched Stock a lot in the NBA. All the times I saw him play in pe4rson he was not in Utah. He was just as good in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco as a assist man, a ball mover and a shooter.
Another great video Jonny. I’m 46 and great up a huge basketball fan, and like you, I tried to be a knowledgeable fan about history and context. Pre RUclips and with the internet in its infancy I used to buy books about NBA history, learning all about George Mikan, Bill Russell, Wilt, etc.… and would discuss them with my friends on the mid 90s, and they thought I was some kind of basketball savant haha. Sadly, I no longer have any passion for the game and I chalk it up to the toxic ignorant foolish culture of the fans and the media. There is zero celebration or acknowledgment of the past. Players from just a generation ago are mocked and derided as plumbers and fireman. The discourse is void of any knowledge, nuance, subtly, or context. Any debate or discussion quickly devolves into name calling and any points I would make would be dismissed because I’m “old.” Sadly, I completely removed myself form something that I once loved; your channel is the only exception. Keep up the great work, us “old” people need a good intelligent basketball fix
What is your opinion on John Stockton? Is his record completely legit?
Yes
How could it not be? He is the all-time assist and steals records. That right there let you know that he is an all-time great.
It's definetly legit. however, It does not indicate his skill as a passer. Magic, Bird, Jokic, LeBron, Kidd, CP3, and more are all clearly better passers but stockton gets put on a higher pedistal (people saying hes a top 5 passer) than he deserves because of the assist record which is objectively just dumb. To me, having stockton that high as a passer or a top 30-40 player ever is indication that you don't watch the game and just look at numbers
@djketchuponthebeat LeBron and Bird are not better passers than Stockton.
My top 5 point guards are Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, J Kidd and Chris Paul. Everyone in that list is a top 40 player on the NBA top 75 list. So your claim goes against the opinion of many people.
So if Stockton is not top 30 to 40, or any of the other players I listed not as well?
He'd be at least as good today, since he'd get a lot of ball screens, and would be expected to shoot more 3s.
John Stockton was the epitome of a pg. He ran the offense, set hellacious screens on anyone, passed to players in a position where they could score and he played tough defense. Steph Curry is a shooting guard playing pg. Stockton was a bulldog on offense and defense with no flash or flair. He just brought his work hat and lunch pail and balled out. The John Stockton hate is absolutely absurd. He was a baller.
I can't stand people always hating on greatness just cause the player they like is not number one but I know is more than that but I don't want to go to details but stop hating fanboys just love the game and competition elevate others
Steph is also an all-time great...but Stockton was a pure point guard and so great. I personally haven't seen much hate towards Stockton. More towards Curry really. Lol. I hate debates against different eras. There's no way to really compare. I really think the greats from years ago would definitely be greats today...because they would also have the same training and things that guys do now. It would be the same. Oscar, Jordan, Bird, Chamberlain, Stockton and all the rest would be just as great today, because they wanted it and had that work-ethic and drive
Exactly this. Curry might be a "better player", but he is _not_ a better point guard. Stockton's probably the best *_pure_* PG all time, bar none, even though I'd say Isiah was a better player. I still have Magic as the best PG, though.
...as contradictory as some of that sounded, lol.
@@FernandoDiaz-d6z Meh. They don't really know anything. It's annoying, but you can't do much about ignorance. They have all the world's information at their fingertips and... choose to ignore it.
One thing that I don't hear talked about a lot, not talked about at all really, is John Stockton's eyes, specifically what exactly he's looking at. Watch like 25-50 clips of him... what is he even looking at, most of the time? Feet? Hips? Space between players? Away from everything (nothing) on purpose, so as to not give anything away? It honestly looks like he's not even looking at anything specific, he's staring at nothing in particular, doing it all based off peripherals. Or in other words, he's truly NOT looking at any one thing (unless he's shooting or about to fake a shot), and that's because he's consciously looking at EVERYTHING, instead. It kind of sounds crazy to claim that this is one of the core elements to his success, but that's literally the whole idea of a pure point guard, isn't it?
If one could somehow train themselves to see and assess everything that's happening on the court, not getting too keyed in on any one thing, and then know what the best possible play is (on either offense or defense), and then make that play, how would that start? It would start with training your eyes and brain to see and process more than the one specific thing your eyes are currently pointed at. Then, once you've mastered peripheral vision and whole-view processing, work on picturing/knowing where players are going to be, once your head is turned, and they are out of your peripheral (AKA "third eye" or "The Sight").
Then, make sure you can dribble/control/protect the ball while you're doing that insane court vision stuff, and not only that, deliver the ball at exactly the right time to the exact right location that allows your teammate to firstly, receive the pass without it being turned over, and secondly, be in a position to score. Also, learn the game to the level that you know exactly what's going on at any given moment, specifically what kind of plays the other team is trying to run and what exact phase of the play they are in, and even more specifically, know exactly what other players can or can't/don't see at any given moment, so that you know when to commit to a pick-pocket, then execute that whole sequence better than anyone else has ever done, by a long shot. Also, don't worry about the size of the guys you're up against - set the screens anyway, and never back down. In fact, seek out a little bit of contact and the opportunity to put someone in foul trouble because they didn't see you, and they ran you over. Get under other guys skin with the little things, get in their heads a little bit to encourage some chippy behavior, but never let them even phase you, not in the slightest. Be a machine of precision and perpetuity. On that note (pun intended), go against the grain and be even MORE durable as a player, possibly the most durable of all time. And, of course, make sure you can make 90% of your free throws, and at least 40% of your 3's. = John Stockton
He did a lot of things better than anyone else has ever done them, and some of that is represented in recorded stats, but to summarize, the 2 things that stand out to me that fueled these records are 1: his "third eye" ability, specifically how he seemed to be looking nowhere but saw everything, and 2: his durability/longevity.
John Stockton was the water that Bruce Lee referred to, basketball version.
In the future they'll say "They only had podcasters and streamers for competition"
You mean *we’ll
Best comment!
😂💯
They already do downplay the competition today. We don't have to wait for the future.
Jokic is embarrassing them rn
On the other hand this dude's consistency was crazy. He played 82 games like 90% of his career. Almost never missed games and always stuffed the stat sheet. His ast and stl records are crazy.
He missed 0 games in 17 of his 19 seasons. Never missed a playoff game.
Even the season with 50 games was the strike shorted season in which he played all 50 games. 😂
He missed 4 games one year and 22 another year. That was it. For 19 season. Respect.
@@John6-40 i mean Lebum will miss 19 games just in the first round of the playoffs lol
There is a certain type of athleticism to being a tough SOB. I think it was Chris Webber talking about trying to knock Stockton out of his shoes with a screen in his rookie season only to have Stockton bounce up and remark good screen young fella.
His free throws were automatic as well
If today NBA rules applied then, Stockton would have 25,000 assists
😐 bro did not learn shit about this vid
@@Iamveryverylost What shit are you talking about??
@@kaybigg this video is about not disrespecting eras and then we get a comment shitting on this era with absurd hyperbole
@@Iamveryverylost You mean this era that you don't even watch?? It's so good that the ratings are in the sewers, right??
@@kaybigg what did you even say, lmao, yes I watch the era of basketball I’m a fan of the sport and watch the evolution of the game, ratings don’t really determine the quality of basketball, more just how the storylines are
These are terminally online beefs. Nobody who played with or actually watched John Stockton could doubt his greatness with a straight face. Hes a hall of famer for a reason.
Lol, true. Even their favorite player wouldn't agree with them.
I wish he made it to the finals.
@@michaeladams5636he did… twice… against Jordan… he just didn’t win…
For real. I watched Stockton play quite a bit and nobody ever discounted the guy. He was a ball player and a half.
@@floyd9727 Yeah I know I remember.. I was probably trying to say something different lol.
I'm glad people like you are still around. You keep the legacy and the past of the NBA alive. As a 17-year-old kid who has been watching since 2011 I have nothing but respect for past players. Stockton deserves more respect than he's given.
John Stockton is not just the totals leader in assists, he also holds the assists per 36 minutes, assists per 100 possessions and assist percentage all-time career records. He holds the per-100 and assist percentage records in the playoffs, as well. He led the league in assists AND assists per game 9 times - consecutively.
He led the league in steals per game and steals percentage twice in the regular season and twice in the playoffs.
He led the league in True Shooting thrice, and has 6 seasons in the 50/40/80 club (he only ever averaged 90+% on his freethrows in the playoffs, which he did thrice).
His team made the playoffs in each of his 19 seasons, and in those 19 regular seasons he received MVP votes in 12, 11 consecutive, and DPOY votes in two of those.
He averaged 31.8 minutes per game and missed 22 games for the entirety of his career. In the playoffs, he averaged 35.2 and missed no games.
John Stockton had availability, and while he was available, he also was the best distributor the game has ever seen, and more than pulled his weight on the defensive end - in the 87 playoffs, he led the league in Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
To quote Wilt Chamberlain in 1988, when asked which single player he would start a franchise with, "I like Johnny Stockton, I think he's the most complete person in his position."
John Stockton is NOT overrated.
50/40/80-90% club isn't impressive if he barely scored lol
@@rev696He didn't need to score. The PG position historically isnt the scorer on the team.
@@rev696look at scottie pippin career scoring average. I'll wait kid
@@jordanpc1489It sounds like it’s become more of a shot creator in addition to a ball handler instead of just the latter.
I've seen John Stockon throw a pass that flew past multiple defenders on five straight possessions against the spurs and those passes were through VERY TIGHT windows that even the best of the best cant replicate without missing the cutter 2 or 3 times. But this was ROUTINE for him. He frequently did this to cutters and shooters. He was far and away the most accurate passer in the history of the game and he also has an Assist to TO ratio that's the highest.
I think Jason Kidd is better .I dont think Stockton can bring Kenyon Martin to the finals
Either goes he was the shit, hands down 💯@@hoodpimp1519
You are a dope
CP3 has a higher assist to turnover ratio. Tyus Jones is probably 1st his is insanely high
Yes he was a great passer, but he is gay
Awesome video man. I grew up in Chicago during the 90's and went to a ton of Bulls games. Stockton was fucking terrifying in those last two finals. He was incredible. Even Pippen could barely slow down his offensive output.
Anyone saying Stockton isn't a top 3 PG all-time just doesn't know their shit. He has the numbers, and he had the in-game aura. Like you said, ask Payton.
Pippen was not on stockton. He was a free-roamer that was put on their center. Stockton was also stopped quite a bit except when Kerr was in the game. Harper and Randy Brown did a decent job which is why he mostly struggled in both series to be aggressive at all. His assists were also down from the norm.
That said, the Bulls were only the best defensive team in the east at the time basically which meant they were basically the best defensive team in the NBA. Stockton annihilated a lot of good western guards like Terry Porter, Payton, KJ, etc.
Stockton averaged like 13 points, 9 assists, and 3 rebounds in 12 Finals games. Some people are over compensating with nostalgia and/or are easily terrified. Stockton was really good for a long time. He was the best at compiling assists and steals. And nobody ever thought he was a serious MVP candidate. You can argue he had the best career of any point guard but he was rarely even considered the best point guard in the league at any point in his career.
He averaged 15 pts and 8 asts in the 1st finals. In the 2nd finals he averaged 9 pts and 8 asts. Not exactly terrifying.
@@EricKoonitsky-s1d LOL.. What an L take.. Straight out of tiktok
@@BrandonlLuster You mean when he had Hornacek as his second option while Bulls had Kukoc and Kerr coming off the bench??
One thing you didn't mention is that Stockton came off the bench in his first three seasons in the league, ranging from 18.2 to 23.6 minutes per game. He immediately led the league in assists when he became a starter and set numerous records for several seasons straight.
If stockton played today, you could probably add a minimum of 3 more assists per game with the way assists are scored today
Can you imagine? Julius Erving would have 50,000 points and average 80 if they called the game like they do today. No hand checking, can;t touch him, you can carry the ball, and take 5 steps without dribbling. Today's players are an absolute joke. None of the stats for the last 20 years are legit.
Pace was slower then
you guys are crazy, stockton was not picking defenses apart with his passing, he was the dump down king😞
Easily. What they count as an assist now is laughable
@@fortynights1513marginally
His records will never be broken
What’s harder to break the assist record or the steals record?
Records are meant to be broken.
The only record that may be unbreakable is the total points scored ,just because Nobody will be able to stay Healty and reach that milestone like Lebron did
@@notqt1367..... yeah, that's why, bronny the future 🐐 will break his record ..... they don't call him the future 🐐 for no reason ....... 😂🤣😂🤣-😭😭😭😭😭😭
Stockton set the assist and steals records 7 and 8 years before he retired. Over 20 years later no one is even remotely close. He was one of the most consistent and durable players of all time. And a tough sob.
The dude didn’t take a game off. He was a machine
Durability is greatly helped by unselfish play. When you're always looking for an open teammate, you won't take as much contact over time, and Stockton was also quick and elusive.
@@palaceofwisdom9448your first point was good but you lost me at the end John took a lot of hits and bumps
If Stockton played today he’d put up 20+ points and 14 assists 3-4 rebounds and almost 3 steals a game and would be a top 5 3pt shooter in the league. One thing Stockton doesn’t get enough credit for is how good he is at finishing inside. Dude was like Allen Iverson. Was always pound for pound the toughest SOB in the league. He wasn’t soft in the slightest.
Y’all love hyperbole
@@TheIcemanthomasfr old heads fucking glaze so hard it’s actually insane😂
@@TheIcemanthomas Nope.. It's facts.. If today's NBA is so good, then why is it dying??
no he wouldn’t lmao stockton would be a role player at best in todays league. he will foul out trying to get those steals
@@edwardwalden05 Yes, he will dominate, lmao.. Funny how you only know about his steals, and mommy was still a child when he played, so you didn't watch his game, nor know anything about his offense
He shoots 38% from threes in the era PG not allowed to shot 3s. He will be a god in today game.
Who told you a point guard wasn't allowed to shoot 3s in that era?
@@BōfôDeez a stat called 3PA/game. It wasn't a player league then - when you are not doing what coach is telling you to do you are benched. Front office would back up the coach. And there is no social media to sob about being not able to play your game.
@bartomiej9807 that's a bunch of nonsense.
@@BōfôDeez It was reality in 90s, deal with it.
@bartomiej9807 you weren't there. Nobody takes you seriously. "Hurr durr, point guards didn't take 3pt shot." Tell that to a millennial, fam.
This generation of fans are a joke. To disrespect John Stockton and his legacy is to disrespect the game itself. The definition of the pure Point Guard.
yeah basketball is dead..In fact, anything this new generation touches they ruin
Facts
There's video of a 40 years old John Stockton absolutely cooking a young Gilbert Arenas on YT. Just imagine what the 1991 version would have done to Gil.
Of course this sport is sh-it. The black culture is sh-it and just look how many watch the NBA today from 20 & 30 years ago. It’s been going down since the 2000’s. When white people wake up and stop spending their money on this crap, they will have to change. Have you been to a high school basketball game in the last 20 years. lol it’s a clown show. From the single mothers fighting and shooting people, to the entire gym fighting on a foul being called in a high school game.
People called Stockton a fraud in the 90's. You just weren't as dialed in to NBA discourse because you didn't have the internet.
let's be honest. the only reason this is even a discussion is because stockton is a 6'0" white guy that looks like a dad from the suburbs. if he was 6'4" and black, nobody would be arguing this.
Freaking Amen to that! Basketball is a little racist to white folks. And I'm not joking
I don't know. I was a kid at the time and Stockton always looked like a baller to me. He looked athletic, like an old-school point guard from the old days, that total look head to toe, you can almost imagine him striking those photo poses like they did back then. He was short, yes, but so what; he was a point guard and he had a definite type of well-established basketball athlete look to him. If you want to talk white guy with a "how tf is _that_ guy doing this" look, now Bird was definitely your unconventional-athlete looking type.
Stockton played defense and never turned over the ball. Probably the best PG to ever play. All time leader in steals. Not even really close.
Only other Bball player getting this disrespect is CC. Curious why that is
Cool story racist
He’d be worshiped if he played today. The only reason they hate him is because he’s not from their time.
Some people feel that higher assist totals are a product of a flawed scheme that typically doesn’t win at the highest level, and that Stockton is overrated because that’s the biggest reason why he stands out.
Because he's white. Kids like black players only. How many real Jokic and Luka fans you know?
But I agree, he's need to be from this time as well.
@@fortynights1513If I know anything, it's that the common public love their age old logical fallacies.
So for the majority... I think I'm gonna go with 'Recency Bias' for 800 Alex.
@@celtics17banners84 that and I believe it's also a by product of the Anti-MJ campaign where you try and discredit him by trying to convince people that everyone and every team he played against were trash.
Even if he played today I’d still hate on him
1) Chris Paul couldn’t hold John Stockton’s jock strap.
2) Look up Stockton’s shooting percentages for 3’s and FT’s, etc.
3) Jordan highly respected him.
4) Dream Team.
5) Played every game.
6) Yes Karl scored a lot of points and that helps but also has a lot to do with JS getting him the ball.
7) He was the man.
I had heard that he actually was a bit of an athletic freak in that he rarely showed any signs of fatigue. While watching as a kid I always thought it was interesting that you never saw Stockton panting through his mouth like every other player would, especially later in the game. He was always breathing through his nose and barely breaking a sweat. Maybe that's part of the reason he was able to play so many games per season for so many seasons at such a consistent level?
Had a resting heart rate of 35bpm, which is absolutely insane.
So tired of these idiots putting out content dissing long retired NBA players for clicks. They are contributing to the dumbness of young people today. Young people need to learn how to look at things critically and leave the emotion out of it. Taking Stocking's assists on the road in his career and prorating it toward his entire career and having him still be 3,000 assists ahead of Paul is just the chef's kiss. Keep doing what you are doing Jonny. You are fighting the good fight against disinformation.
They don't want to educate the young people, they want to keep them ignorant. It's enraging.
Idiots is the RIGHT word for them
This generation has lost the ability to retain information. Humans weren't designed to consume as much as we/younger kids do.
These long retired NBA players are also dissing modern NBA players too lol
@@CMKHU The fans in general are dissing the modern NBA, proof to that is the massively declining viewership.
Idk why people ever thought his assist stats could've been faked. He played 1,504 games, started 1,300 games, and played in all 82 games 16 times. And its not like he had a season averaging something crazy like 20+ assists where you might be able to question that
Yeah, I like how this video showed that if you just took his away games assist rate, he would still be 3000 ahead of CP3. Gottem!
He only played for 30 minutes in Sloans rotation, what makes his numbers even more impressive
I mean he holds the record for most Ast per game and in a season
It's funny when people arguing his stats as being inflated, assist has some room for inflation (modern day is way worse) But his steal numbers are insane and not something your opponent would allow you to inflate 😂
@@mojoechinapeople are skeptical of pre-tracking era stats because it has literally been proven in the case of Michael Jordan that there was extreme bias and inconsistency going on - Stockton’s scrutiny is just a symptom of that skepticism (and it’s not even new, Stockton has generally been underrated and not respected for his entire career and beyond). tbh I also tend to think his playstyle generated a lot of “fake” assists, and is not necessarily conducive to winning due to a reliance on the ability of his co-star. But he was still obviously a very good point guard
He was actually an athletic freak though. Was tough as nails and as strong as an ox for a guy his size. I heard that doctors have done studies on his sitting heart rate. An amazing athlete and amazing player
A very different kind of athletic freak, but you're not wrong. Dude was the definition of an Iron Man.
Dude was 6’2 and is the all-time leader in steals he’s definitely an athletic freak in any category
I met him in person at his basketball camp in the 90s in Spokane. His legs were like tree trunks. Dude was much thicker and stronger than people think.
I remember seeing an interview with Gary Payton, and he said the thing that surprised him the most about Stockton is how big he actually is in person.
Your right about Stocktons heart rate. it was said to be in the 30`s. It was also said that Stockton would be fully rested once pair of free throws were shot.
If you have anything bad to say about John Stockton, you’re not a real NBA fan and you don’t know basketball. He’s a F legend
He’s unbelievable and would dominate today
Stockton and Malone are the best "Ironman" duo in any sport ever. played 18 seasons together and maybe missed 100 games combined... absolutely insane.
They missed just a combined 31 games in 18 years together.thats the definition of consistency and durability
Not to mention the era they played in was a lot tougher then nowadays ball
@@matthewthomas9194 Yeah I was gonna say, 100 sounds high, even combined, haha.
Maybe NOT the most underrated player in history, but definitely in the top ten.
Maybe NOT the most disrespected player in history, but definitely in the top ten.
Maybe NOT the greater passer in history, but definitely in the top three.
Maybe NOT... NEVERMIND He is the ALL TIME LEADER in assists and steals.
Don't be a casual, show respect to Mr. Stockton.
Thanks Jonny for the Video.
For me, Stockton was never the "best" PG in any season. But Top 3 to 5 EVERY YEAR for practically 19 years? Yeah, that's why Stockton is both...underrated and NOT underrated.
John Stockton is great GREAT Player. But him being White is why White fans love to prop him up as the best PG over Isiah Thomas and Magic.
@standingmaximumverticaljump Agreed. That used to annoy me so much when I was young that I don't think I fully appreciated his career until after he retired.
@@jlui21you are a joke! Stockton was the BEST PG in the 80s, no question. WTF are you trolling about? Only Magic and Steph can claim to be the BEST PG for an entiee decade, and Steph is not a real PG by definition
@@standingmaximumverticaljumpall time assist and steals king, like it or not....
I remember back on one of the old “Open Court” episodes the legend s who played against them were talking about him and Karl. They said they thought Stockton made Malone more than the other way around. And like him or not, Malone was really really good so for Stockton to be the more important one says ALOT. Unless of course your a fool who just wants to hate
Crazy thing is u can erase all of his assists to Malone and he’d still be the all time assist leader by a wide margin.
One thing Malone benefits from here (in addition to passing obviously), is that Stockton wasn’t looking to score typically.
If he was, then naturally Malone gets a few less points at least
@@mohahmed4304It was an adjusted stat to what averaged with Malone vs. without Malone, if he had played the same career without him.
But yes... Really impressive, and only goes on to highlight how ridiculously good he was.
That's exactly right. Malone doesn't dribble up the ball. Stockton finds him in his spots and malone has to just raise up most of the time.
The funny thing is, it's this weird circular argument. Haters say that Stockton wasn't that great, because he was propped up by playing with Malone, but those same people will also say that Malone wasn't that great because he was propped up by playing with Stockton. I've never seen anybody trying to dismiss any other great player because of their team mates, but somehow these two absolute legends don't count because they played together.
That was a great explanation to why players back then didn’t use their left as much, great video!
Yeah. It was also self-reinforcing- the less safe it is to use it, the less you'll practice it.
J Stockton was a beast. Tuff as nails, excellent playmaker, nice jumper which is what you want in a PG. Records will be untouched
It's as simple as this - John is the ONLY player leading the all time in two MAJOR stats categories. And he is leading it by a landslide!!
The most underrated player ever and it's not close
Not true, Lebron leads in missed shots and turnovers all time 😂
@@thedudeunchained7583I thought Kobe missed more shots
@@fortynights1513 Nope, LBJ has that title as well. And most missed layup all time for LBJ, 3rd most missed 3's
@fortynights1513 nope LeBron won that title this season
@@thedudeunchained7583Granted Kobe and LeBron also had to play well enough for a team to want them to attempt enough shots in the first place.
Another great video spewing facts about 90s greats!!! Thx!! Stockton was a beast and was part of the OG Dream Team for that reason not because Thomas was disliked.
This video not only debunk the dumb narratives about Stockton, but it annihilates them
One narrative is that Stockton wasn't athletic, and Jonny confirmed that he is indeed unathletic. I guess Stockton missed too many games, couldn't get any steals, and couldn't run fast breaks, because he was so unathletic.
Another narrative is that Stockton didn't have a left hand, and Jonny didn't dispute that, either. I'm not sure how Stockton's go to move was a crossover dribble without a left hand.
It does neither of those things
@@penkima4923you can find hundreds of clips of him using his left. Even if he didn’t have a left what does that say about his records?
@@penkima4923imagine stockton doing these things even if he is unathletic, what else can he do if he is athletic enough like iverson.
Probably one of the most underrated player right now. Gary Payton, the best defender from Pg, said his worst match up wasn’t jordan, wasn’t penny hardaway, or Kobe, but John Stockton.
This earned a sub. The pasty gangster rocked those short shorts and played consistent fundamentally sound ball. Having to rely on his knowledge, experience and understanding gave him an opportunity that not a lot of players who rely on physicality get; longevity.
Gaurds back then weren't allowed to dribble all the time. Defenders were in the grill all the time and like you said, you used your off hand to keep the defense off you.
exactly. kids who have only seen the 'freedom of movement' era have no idea what real basketball looks like.
The "only one hand" narrative sticks with certain guys and follows them forever which really pisses me off. Julius Randle is the guy that they say it about now. It really doesn't matter. Half of the league literally only has one hand and the other 40 percent rarely use their off hand. Truly ambidextrous players are an anomaly, and really don't have that much of an advantage because of it.
@@uberneanderthalWhen does the “freedom of movement” era begin and why is it not real basketball in your book?
@@Davivd2I'm 40 and everyone "knows I never had a left." I can continue to say "why use it when I'm so good with the right." Besides, after a few drives, they'll overplay and I can just spin to the left and finish with the right hand! 😂
@@VeedoCapone What's crazy, is that Magic is the GOAT PG and probably had a left on par with Stockton if not worse.
I was a laker fan back then and i hated john stockton and karl malone. Those two literally did pick and roll all game long all season long deep into the playoffs. These noobs gonna sit here and tell us pick and roll assists dont count?
The dreaded:"Stockton to Malone"
Exactly. Long-time Bulls fan. Same response. Hated playing the Jazz. Nothing but respect for Stockton and Malone. Magic and Michael would say the same thing.
Laker Fan myself. Couldn't stand Stockton, but respected him. I wouldn't have been too disappointed, had Jerry West brought Stockton to LA...and I have a feeling you wouldn't have either. Great comments from both of you
@bradbruhn9586 nah..it wasn't like that for me. I hated the rival players. It wasnt until an adult I appreciated them. In fact..if you remember the lakers after magic retired had built up a nice young team. He came back for like the last 20 games and the playoffs. Ruined his legacy to me how he was when he came back. Then they blew up that team to get kobe and shaq. Cant say it was a bad decision but it destroyed me as a fan and in 1995 i jumped ship to the timberwolves and KG. Not the best choice either. 😂
Every team knew what they were going to do and they couldn’t stop it.
Oh yes because today's stats definitely aren't inflated 🙄
for real, they need to stop talking about inflated stats. Because that is opening Pandora's box for the modern game, and the Wannabe GOAT.
Just because players of today can catch a pass, take six or seven dribbles, make a few pump fakes before shooting. That doesn't mean that it's any less of an assist than a pass then shoot.😂
20s are the INFLATED STATS ERA...
@@ian0143 dont forget that on STOCKTON ERA KMALONE was the player with more and 1s and those assists didnt count..and neither inbound passes.
NOW you see GIANNIS making an inbound pass to DAME who didnt even grab the ball so that the seconds dont count let the ball roll almost at half court grab it throw the ball to the front passing half court took 1 step and made a logo 3 and NBA counted that as an assist
All stat are inflated now
While I still think that it is a valid opinion to have that Magic is the best passer of all-time, the following stat absolutely blew my mind when I first heard it:
Everyone points to the fact that Magic’s Assists per Game (APG) is higher than Stockton’s but then discounts Stockton’s total assists because he played for so long. But the only reason that Stockton’s APG are lower than Magic’s is because he played for so long. Stockton had a 5 season stretch, where his average APG was higher than Magic’s single best season APG. Magic’s highest APG season was 13.1. Stockton had between 13.6-14.5 APG for 5 consecutive seasons.
Not to mention that Stockton was drafted onto a team that already had an All-Star at point guard. People forget that Stockton was drafted with the intention of being a backup to Rickey Green and, even though Stockton was already distributing 10 assists per 36 minutes in his rookie year, he wouldn't get starter's minutes until his fourth season in the league.
At the same time, in only 8 less playoff games played, Stockton had over 500 less assists than Magic. Stockton would need to average over 63 assists in those 8 games to tie Magic. Stockton was a compiler. Magic was a winner. How about pointing to that fact?
@@christopherbanuelos2147 You mean when Stockton had Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, and Byron as teammates in the weak West, and Magic only had Karl his entire career in the stacked West?? Never mind, I wasn't pointing out a fact
@@kaybigg I will point out a fact for you. Stockton was a compiler. Magic was a winner. 🤷♂
@@christopherbanuelos2147 You mean the fact that Magic with twice Stockton's turnovers per game, half the defense, half the shooting efficiency who had the most help in history in the weak West, with the one of the best coaches in history, a top 5 player in history who happens to be a GOAT center, a top 5 SF, and multiple All stars and HOFers is a winner, and Stockton who had only a 13th pick as his helper in a stacked West is a compiler?? Makes sense.. No wonder you're using emojis
I've known about your gaming channel (Zeltroid) for a few years, but this video (and the time I'm leaving this comment) is how I finally found your basketball channel.
Amazing job breaking down all the arguments against Stockton's greatness and legacy. As someone who was heartbroken when Jordan denied Stockton not one but two NBA championships, or at least as heartbroken as was possible in this particular context, I always enjoyed watching Stockton's highlights when I was a child and teenager, and even with my flawed eyes (which are now even more flawed as I'm on the wrong side of 40), I could see that Stockton was great.
If they recorded assists back then like they do now, Stockton would easily have over 20,000 assists
Absolutely agree, whats Amazing is Stockton's assist numbers in an era where defense is actually allowed.....😂
Stockton is one of my favorite players. Played the right way, seldom missed games, gave it his all every night. Very smart and tough player. An all time great. Thank you for this video.
Jonny, thanks a lot for this video and defending the legacy of many old all-time greats, without diminishing modern players and game. It's so rare this days.
I extend even more my thanks to the specific case of John Stockton because he was my second favorite player back in the 90's, just behind MJ. And still today he navigates easily in my top 5 PG ever (from the 2nd to the 4th spot, depending on the mood).
Excellent video. John Stockton was absolutely amazing. He also had a crazy motor. He was a super tough iron man who never missed games, & he has a basketball IQ to match. John Freakin' Stockton!
2:48 Karl Malone holding his new girlfriend in his left arm
Underrated comment
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Treacherous work
Bruh 💀
That's sick and funny at the same time.
Where would be Malone without Stockton? You forgot bout that fact.
No one is forgetting that. Unfortunately, he (and Karl) didn't have much else going for them, other than each other much of the time. Thurl Bailey was a good, not great solid player. Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek as well. But they were not there that long with the Jazz.
Where would Magic have been without Wilkes, Worthy, Kareem and Scott? Where would Steph be without KD and Klay Thompson? Where would Cousey be without Russell? Where would Gary Payton be without Shawn Kemp or Xavier McDaniel and where would Isaiah be without Kelly Tripuka, Adrian Dantley, Joe Dumars or Bill Laimbeer?
Malone should be in jail lmao
@@bradbruhn9586 They keep forgetting it's a team game.
@@Ali10Bwhy? For being a bad dad? Apart from that, he seemed like an okay dude that learned from his mistakes the hard way
Out of all the greats that did not win a championship because of MJ… John is my personal favorite. As pure of a point guard as can be and is more reliable and more dependable under pressure than most of the overpaid, entitled, and me first cry babies of today’s NBA.
Yeah...I agree. I hate the Championship Counting Method. By that Logic Mike Smrek is a better player than Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Tracey McGrady and Elgin Baylor. Your Comment Rocked my friend
I was born and raised in Utah. I've been a Jazz fan since I started following the NBA around the age of 8 or 9.
The Jazz were tough AF in the late 90s.
The only reason they didn't win titles in '97 and '98 is because their finals opponent was the greatest team ever assembled (in my opinion).
They went up against Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, and other hall of famers who were led by Phil Jackson. That's a legendary team.
They swept the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in the playoffs during one of those seasons, and I'm pretty sure they beat them 4 to 1 in the other.
Stockton was the heart and soul of the Jazz at that time. Without him, they wouldn't have stood a chance, and he's still underrated to this day.
I love seeing videos like this that give him the credit he deserves. One of the best things about Stockton is that he was on the same team for all of his 19-year career.
He is beloved out here. There are even streets named after him in SLC.
Thanks for showing him some love and respect. I appreciate the video.
agreed. but for the Bulls in those years, you gotta name Toni Kukoc before Kerr.
Just think if Mark Eaton's prime coincided with those teams and it was Eaton in the paint in those finals instead of Greg Ostertag?
I went to Oregon state the same time Gary Payton enrolled. I ran across his path about 3 times it’s a small town. First I was at the gym doing stairs as a work out and I saw this skinny black freshman in practice moving impossibly fast. Then I ran into him at the movies in the line with some hot black girl, I presume his girlfriend at the time. 3rd time he for some reason wanted to play rat ball at the student recreation center where we would all play pick up games and the reward for winning is you get so stay on the court and face the next or same challenger. I had play against Payton and he was impossibly fast like on another level then we all could function at. For example one time he got the rebound and was down to the other end before I could even turn around.
@@chrisbarnett5303Was center a liability for them in the later 90’s?
@@fortynights1513 definitely. Greg Ostertag was their main center then and he was tne prototypical uncoordinated, unathletic big whose only skill was being tall and having fouls to give.
Excellent combination of vocab & statistics to prove the point 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
It’s a mistake to just assume Stockton wasn’t an athletic freak without actually looking into it. Stockton doesn’t make sense to people in part because they assume he wasn’t athletic and had to be some sort of genius to be that much better than other point guards, and that level of genius just isn’t apparent from watching him.
But Stockton _was_ an athletic freak. He just didn’t jump high. He was very quick and had insane conditioning - arguably the best cardiovascular endurance in the history of the NBA. He was the fastest rookie the team had ever seen - as in they had a player nicknamed “the fastest of them all” and he ran circles around him. He still holds Jazz conditioning drill records. He ran a casual 18:30 5k without working too hard in practices. His shooting efficiency is in part driven by his insane cardio - where he would run hard both sides of the court, draw a foul, and have a normal heart rate by the time he shot his free throws.
When Payton talks about how hard Stockton was to guard, listen to what he says. He doesn’t talk about basketball IQ or fundamentals. He doesn’t talk about genius passing. He doesn’t even talk about dribbling. He talks about activity and work rate. Elite scorers even if Payton couldn’t stop them from making shots would pause and rest. Stockton did a lot less of that and would be moving to the next play and the next and the next in steady succession all game.
Chris Paul is better than Stockton… at 100%. But how long is Chris Paul at 100%? Stockton was at 100% for most of every game. Stockton was faster than Chris Paul, stronger than Chris Paul, and in better shape than Chris Paul and would run harder and play harder than Chris Paul and recover better than Chris Paul and thus get hurt a lot less than Chris Paul and that’s a big part of why he has so many more assists than Chris Paul and more steals than Chris Paul and never missed the playoffs in 19 seasons including two where he won Olympic gold over the summer.
The edge is athletics. He just had the athletics of a soccer player instead of a basketball player and was white and looked like a dork so people look past it.
Stockton gave the best PGs of his era work 19 years worth one of the best to run the point ever!
Stockton is probably my favorite player of all time but that said he routinely seemed to have problems against Kevin Johnson - who may be ne of the more underrated PGs of the 90s era.
If anything Stockton's assists totals are deflated cuz assists weren't counted the same in the 80s and 90s as they are today
Are they less strict now?
@@fortynights1513Absolutely they are.
yep.
@@fortynights1513 the actual meaning of an assist is you pass the ball to someone who scores without a dribble, nowadays you can pass it to a guy who scores off of a step back jumper and it'll be counted as an assist
@@basketball_historian23u're being so gentle, it's more like 5 dribble stepback then drive to rim would still be considered an assist😂
I watched most of those John Stockton games. Dude was rediculous, even comparing it to players these days.
John Stockton being #1 career all time in assists and steals is phenomenal. And the distance between total assists from John to Chris Paul and everybody else is massive
I'll keep saying it. Jonny's channel is by far my favorite RUclips channel discussing all things ball related. John is the best point guard of all time, then Magic, then Steph.
I am a "Ride & Die" Stockton fan. Not because I personally know him. Stockton's fundamentals, work ethic, vision and stamina are unmatched in the PG position. Thank you for giving John Stockton his flowers.
Stockton:
Home Games: In 751 games 8,174 assists, averg. 10.9 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 753 games 7,632 assists, averg. 10.1 assists per game.
Magic:
Home Games: In 448 games, 5,197 assists, averg.11.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 458 games 4,954 assists, averg. 10.8 assists per game.
Paul:
Home Games: In 655 games 6,310 assists, averg.9.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 643 games 5,802 assists, averg. 9.0 assists per game.
James:
Home Games: In 771 games, 5,848 assists, averg. 7.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 745 games 5,364 assists, averg. 7.2 assists per game.
I don’t think the home/away argument is that valid.
@@fortynights1513 Thi honestly just makes it look like all players just have better numbers at home - but the margin is very small. I think that mightve been the point this guy was makin. That its actually invalid
You should mention that JS was also statistically one of the most clutch players ever (unlike Malone). I forget what stats measure this, but I'm sure you'll find them if you Google it.
Ask Jeeves
exactly right ..... he's the reason, why we didn't see the nba finals,bulls vs. rockets .... the dream,sir charles & the glyde vs. air jordan,pippen & rodman .... while watching it live,i was so pissed he did hit that 3 point shot that sent the jazz to the finals ..... 😂🤣😂🤣-🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Inside The NBA once trolled Chuck with a clip of moments he'd like to redo. Most were silly, but when they showed JS hitting that 3 over him, he looked shell-shocked.😂It's called "Charles Barkley 51.9 Seconds."
I loved watching the guy drop 30 points when his team needed it. He had that in his bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter when nobody was shooting 40 percent. This guy feared nobody or any moment that arose.
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Let's not forget the Pacers had a 4th quarter lead in game 7 of that series against the Bulls. If they didn't choke that game away, that '98 final could have been Jazz vs Pacers. That would have been one hell of a series as well. It would have also pissed off the NBA front office having two of the smallest markets in the finals at that time.
There is an interview with Magic stating that Stockton is a better pure point guard then himself. When one of the NBA goats said your better than him at something it should mean something.
Stock really _was_ a better PURE point but Magic was a better _player_ specifically _BECAUSE_ he was more versatile. All of the GOATs had extremely varied skillsets. There are times when you have to be something different from what you usually are in order to win.
Yes usually points facilitate where the ball goes in the opening drive. Not necessary scoring. Magic could do both and with his height he got more open looks. That's why I think the comparison between MJ and LeBron is unwarranted because they are different players. MJ is a scorer and LeBron is more of a facilitator with a power forward body.
@@darkiori87 LeBron's game is WAY more like Magic's than Jordan's, I agree. It's not fair to compare him to MJ because he actually has way more responsibility on the offense. He's one of only five players ever to lead the league in scoring AND assists for entire seasons (only Tiny Archibald did both in the same season) and along with Cousy, Jerry West and Magic is one of four PGs to lead the league in assists the same year they led their team to a championship.
Magic is being humble.... then again if Stockton had the Showtime Lakers I guess he too would have the assist per game record and would have had a pace of 15000 assists in 17 seasons like Magic did.
I watched this video based on the title. I thought this would be a video criticizing his ability and I was ready to piss myself off. I was not a Utah Jazz fan, but I always appreciated excellence. Stockton and Malone always delivered an excellent game.
All this generation does is sit down and discredit the greats of the past. That’s why ratings are down
How does this acctually work in your opinion? I don't think there is any causation or connection of those two things.
@@CorneliusMagnus now thats definitely not the main reason why ratings are down, but if you think about it, if younger people regurgitate stuff like that 24/7 on the greats of the past, why would any older fan want to watch the games? At least, a decent amount of them will be disgusted enough not to tune in anymore..
@@CorneliusMagnus Younger fans want to focus on what they are seeing, and think it is the best. Older fans remember history and context, so they educate the younger fans. The League has constantly and intentionally made offense easier and defense harder, so it casts doubt on the legitimacy of the current NBA. The NBA, ESPN, and Klutch don't want people to notice that, so they feed younger fans BS and try to discredit the past players. Don't look behind the curtain and educate yourself on the history of the game.
When I was a kid, I read all about the players of the past that I had never seen. I wanted to know the history. I couldn't really compare them to the present, but I still valued that history. Like many have said, no other sport denigrates the past to prop up the present. We even say that you can't really compare eras, because of rules changes and styles of schemes of play. But the current era is insecure and feels lacking, so they lash out at the past players.
I also think Social media and 24/7 media coverage leads to block heads talking out of their butts. Gilbert Arenas, Kendrick Perkins, SAS, Nick Wright, etc. all mouthing off with stupid stuff, just to get people talking, whether for or against them, it is engagement, content.
It's a PART of why ratings are way down. Not THE reason. I'd say the bigger reason is the terrible play on the floor, with all the rules favoring offense, but kids and even modern players hating old legends is most definitely up there.
@@shorewallGreat post. I also respected legends I never really watched play. Kareem was mostly before my time. My Dad loved Dr J. I studied the careers of Jerry West, Wilt, Bill, even down to role players turned coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley.
I love American history. World history and NBA history. I don't think there's a lot of kids who feel that way anymore, and that disappoints me.
I'd love to talk about past players with the younger fans.
People have no idea how it was playing basketball in the 80s and 90s. Hand check: legit. Point guards: mainly facilitator than scoring machines. John Stockton has been one of the best point guards ever, period.
As a 19 year old that's a representative of Gen Z, I just want to say that not all members of my generation foolishly slander and disrespect all time great like that. Stockton holds 2 records that may be more untouchable than LeBron's scorign record.
I grew up in Utah in the 90s. No better time to be a Jazz fan. Ever since then I have struggled to be a fan of any of the future Jazz teams. Stockton was one of a kind and fun to see play game after game.
During the all-star game of 1989 Wilt Chamberlain was on the broadcast and was asked, "if you were still playing and could take any guy in the league as a teammate, who you takin?"
without hesitation he responded: Little Johnny Stockton.
Wilt, like Karl Malone, had the endurance and quickness to haul ass down the floor on made and missed possession changes.
He knew that if he had a guy like Stockton during his career who could feed him the ball the way he does the Mailman, he would have had 5,000 more points in his career.
This is why Utah was so good for so long. Because they had a 270 pound monster flying up the court on every single posession with another guy who could make every read and pass there is and who'd take your lunch money if you got careless with the ball.
Every game. Every single posession. For 20 years those two dudes relentlessly outran and outworked whoever had the misfortune of trying to guard them.
My favorite point guard. Nice and efficient.
8:07 actually, no. the nba said that the league itself tracks the stats not by scorekeepers for their teams. it arose following the accusation that jjj had rigged stats bc his numbers at home were just that better than his stats away that were eventually disproven
Great feedback! This raises 2 thoughts...
1, has it always been this way?
2, if this has indeed always been the case, then the criticisms about Stockton's "home-brewed stats" look even dumber. Lol
Does that disprove that micheal jordan theory where his home stats were way to good because the scorekeeper was biased?
I think it’s a question of how many dribbles you get and it still counts as an assist. Stockton had many passes to Malone that lead to assists but Malone dribbled for ten seconds.
@@jonnyarnett im not sure if its always been this way but the nba did talk abt it after the reddit post gained traction
@@mattmmixes Show me one. Malone hardly dribbled lol
The Karl Malone argument is so hilariously bad. If anything you’d go the other way around, where Karl benefited from Stocktons epic assists.
Had a beautiful game, this breakdown was phenomenal and Stockton deserved this, great job
My favorite player of all time (deservedly). 2 records that will never be touched. And it ain’t close. Especially when both the stats are about giving effort and being unselfish. One of the most underrated players ever, easily. Wish these kids could have seen his greatness. It’s also nice to see someone that knows their stuff on basketball. You’ve earned yourself a subscriber, my friend. Cheers.
I can't remember any opponent of his that didn't respect him and praised him. So, even he didn't have left (and that's not completely true) he was hell of a player making all these plays with only one hand. If not for a Stockton who knows how much points Malone would have. Stockton was an ultimate competitor
The only guy to not give Stockton a complete compliment was kerr... he whined about Stockton being dirty. It's kerr that's proven himself to be a complete wuss.
@johnnyseg754 Kerr is irrelevant in bigger picture. If Magic, Barkle and Peyton praise you, I think you are doing well
@@Kodreanu23 I agree.
Pretty sure most his haters never saw him play. He was a dominant PG offensively and defensively. Plus one tough SOB
Dirty mfer too, and I say this as a huge fan of him as a player. The kind of guy you absolutely hate when he's not on your team.
I love Chris Webber's story about trying to set a dirty pick on Stockton, and Stockton runs past, pats him and says nice screen.
I disagee - -mainly because outside the current narrative (which I haven't paid much attention to), older folks that talked about the game always seemed to gloss over Stockton when his record was brought up. The make excuses as toe why the team was good - and then go on to downplay who he was to make a point about Magic. If you didn't experience this in the early 2000s, you were either too young, or too old (and probably spreading this same nonsense).
Thank you to give him his credits. He's the definition of the original PG, I take him over anybody for this role.
Also about the Malone helped him part, why all the PGs who played with a dominant big dont have 10 assists per game? You can have the best hooper with you, if you cant find him he wont score.
Apart from their talents, the top point guards assist averages are also impacted by what share of their teams passing they do.
And no knock on Stockton here, but it sounds like the Jazz didn’t have much of a secondary playmaker in his earlier career.
@@fortynights1513 He came off the bench for the first 3 seasons of his career, because he's white and can't get steals.
@@fortynights1513 Indeed, luck is part of sports and he landed in a great situation for him.
good way to end the video with payton's comment - i was gonna mention it. his assists and steals records will not be broken for some time, and its already been 20+ years. not a particularly flashy or entertaining player (or even one that i rooted for), but one of the most fundamentally sound and consistent basketball players i've watched. don't take my word for it, just ask the glove.
This man is BY FAR the most underrated player in the history of the NBA. Listen to some of his peers stories about him. Tough as nails and always brought his A game.
Jonny, you could have been a lawyer. Great rebuttal, and very thought out❗
I first saw Stockton when he was in college and thought he would be a really good pro. Why, because he was really, really fast. Hands, feet, starts, stops. He was a great point guard .
He is the 2nd greatest passer of all time only behind Magic Johnson and he deserves way more respect from fans from this generation
Two completely different passers
Magic is only #1 all time in assists per game because Stockton allowed him to be.
@@jatdb51t Do you remember that it was Earvin who broke Oscar Robertson's record for assist in the early nineties?
Earvin then retired because he got H.I.V. So Earvin didn't necessary get to build upon his record. Despite a brief return in nineteen ninety six. So John easily broke Earvin record. Not to dispute the fact that John was a very good point guard.
But there is a reason why he is the all-time leader in assists.
No complaints about John being the all-time leader in steals. That's legit.
@@jatdb51tThere’s also the fact that that’s a per game stat, and we didn’t really see Magic get the longevity he could’ve.
We didn’t exactly get to see him decline.
Conversely though, Magic could have been closer to where Stockton is in assists.
@@fortynights1513 he might have, or he might have fallen off with age. But we will never know. We can only give magic credit for what he actually did.
The point I was trying to make is Stockton became #1 in assists all time during the 94-95 season, he was #1 in assists per game at that time. He played past his prime and dropped to #2 all time in assists per game during the 98-99 season.
My guy Jonny Arnett happy holidays… Im 59 Mo Cheeks and Zeke are my fav PGs but John was Solid on both sides of the court and he had a left hand dribbling passing etc and he belongs where he is in the history of the Game…
Great video. Very good and sensible points made. Thank you for broadening my perspective
The dude never missed games. If Chris Paul didn’t miss as many games he would probably have got close to beating him
Durability and deployment dependability are seriously underrated traits of great players. In fact it's arguably the most important player attribute.
You are right about the durability, but look at his averages when he was in his prime. It's not that he played every game, but he was 2 to 3 assists ahead of Magic every season. So Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, or whoever you want to plug in. Playing 82 games a year isn't going to close that gap, and none of those guys are going to go past 12 APG when Stockton was getting 13 to 15.
And those games his missed were probably for his kids wedding and graduation ceremonies 😂
If Chris Paul wasn't almost Biblically unlucky he would have a chip. I personally think CP3 is better than Stockton was (and I was born in the 70s) but he'll never get the credit because 1) he changed teams (even though it wasn't his fault) and 2) he didn't play in a mythologized era. Paul is like Stockton with way more athleticism and versatility, fewer weaknesses... and NO KARL MALONE
@@MICjordanTPR Curious. What are Stockton's weaknesses, the Chris Paul doesn't have? You mentioned the athleticism. which basically means he can jump higher.
I love how MJs weakness was 3pt shooting the first 4 seasons. Than after that he turned a weakness into a strength. The man worked so hard he truly had no weakness
How did MJ turn it into a strength? He still wasn't shooting 3's and was still leading the league in scoring 😅
@rmuzic6531 you don't need to lead the the league to turn it into a Strength. He went from shooting in the teens to shooting lower 30%. Almost what the league average is now. What are you even talking about
@ricosauve5 Mann please do your research before posting something this stupid. MJ barely took any 3 pt attempts...he usually might of taken less than 20 attempts for a entire season. His career avg was 1.7 in comparison LBJ is 4.7, and Kobe whose game was similar to MJ career avg was 4.1. He never turned it into a strength because he didn't take to many of them. He had one hot game against the blazers in the finals with 6 in the first half and people want to think he turned it into a strength lol ..man I'm 45 and seen all of this. Yes his avg improved because he might hit 1 once in a while but that was never his strength and he didn't need it.
@@rmuzic6531He didn’t turn it into a total strength per se, but he did indeed get better at it. Plus, he himself said that he didn’t want to focus too much on improving his 3pt shooting because it would take away other aspects of his game.
@@ricosauve5 why can't I see my replies on here...lol...it's whatever...
15,000 assists is not overrated… dude is very underrated. He is the reason why Karl Malone scored as many points as he did.
It goes both ways, Malone was excellent as was Stockton!
Y'know, the thumbnail had me ready to go to war, but basically everything you said was 100% spot on.
nice. i'm 24 and was a huge nba fan from like 2014-2020. i love learning about all these legends i only know the face and some highlights of from you.
They just hating on him because he’s a 90s player
It's because CP3 will never clear Stockton. Maybe if he won in 2021, he would've. But he lost to Giannis, so Stockton clears.
@@shorewallStockton is not even close to cp3, cp3 was the leader in his teams, Stockton wasn't
@@shorewallIf he had made a second NBA Finals appearance in his prime, could Paul have cleared Stockton?
If John Stockton played with Stephen curry he would have won his 1st NBA title
It's so stupid: everyone says Stockton couldn't have gotten his assists without Malone, and everyone says Malone couldn't get his points without Stockton. Sounds like they were both legendary to me
They would have both been great regardless but they wouldn't have set those kinds of insane records without playing with each other for _EIGHTEEN YEARS_ and pretty much never missing a game. The best pure point of all time played for TWO DECADES with the game's premier pick-and-roll threat of their era. What other time did that EVER happen?
Who do john suppose to pass the ball to himself 😂
Great episode mate
Been waiting for this one since the poll 🔥🔥 You should do the 2006 Finals next 💯 I feel it deserves a closer look. Keep up the quality content 🙏
This is why I absolutely hate Rusty Bucket and LOW. They really just mainstream casuals that try to shit on the older generation.
I like most of Rusty's content, but he is out of left field on Stockton. It's like he's mad at Stockton, but no one really rates Stockton too highly? No one puts Stockton over anyone he shouldn't be. Most people have Isaiah over him, because of the championships. But Stockton clears CP3 by a mile, due to longevity. Pound for pound, they are close, but when Stockton is over 3000 assists ahead, and also the record holder for steals, you can't argue that.
CP3 made a finals, Stockton made 2. Maybe if CP3 won against Giannis, he could clear Stockton. But he didn't, so he will never clear Stockton.
For every rusty buckets snd LOW there’s also a skap attack
Rusty Buckets’s deep dive videos are really good at what they do.
As for his take on Stockton, it really comes down to the way he views how point guards were told to play in the 80’s and 90’s.
He views pass-first point guards as an inherently flawed concept because he thinks that just about all schemes where there is only one player doing most of the playmaking are too predictable.
I see why one could say Stockton is overrated by some, but he did his job well.
I honestly think Rusty’s arguments are a better case for Stockton’s coaches being overrated as opposed to him.
@@shorewall You actually can argue it quite clearly for Chris Paul.
@@shorewall Paul was in MVP talks many times Stockton never was
You can’t be underrated when you’re in the hall of fame and a top 75!
Yes he can
Great video, Jonny! Nice job in debunking the narratives about Stockton.
I remember seeing the "no left hand" criticism of Jordan too. It's ridiculous. As you said, if that narrative was true, he's even more impressive. The other criticisms also are so ignorant. Basketball is a TEAM sport and I like the examples you listed (of the teammates that other stars had). I'm looking forward to your video about LeBron's assists next month. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were errors. I like LeBron, but it's like you said - people make mistakes and I don't think we have any eras without imperfections in how stats are counted (because people are imperfect, as you said).
Stockton is an incredible and one of the best point guards to have ever played. He was skilled on both sides of the court. His longevity is incredible and so was his endurance (amazing how he missed very few games) and skills. He was fun to watch.
Great work again in fact checking and debunking the narratives. Have a great day, Jonny!
When Haberstroh started that kerfluffle talking about how Jordan's steals were inflated, I said, "You just opened Pandora's box, and you aren't going to like what you find." Because if we go back for every player and recount their stats, Lebron ain't gonna like that either.
And you can't just pick and choose. Because if you want to cherry pick a few games of Jordan's to cast doubt, then we really need to go back and recount every single damn game, for every player, in order to get accurate stats. But he wants to selectively pick a few of Jordan's to cast doubt on MJ, while thinking that no one would do that for Lebron? Naive.
Man, this video was very entertaining. Just made me subscribe. As a person who has seen John Stockton play at basketball games...I totally agree with everything said here.
I appreciate in depth critical analysis of sports, or anything else. Good job
Stockton Is The Best PG Of All-Time 🐐
He’s definitely great but not the greatest of all time.
@GrapeTeaNews I disagree. I will have to say Magic and then Oscar Robertson, however, you can make a case for Stockton. He gave my Lakers fits. Though I disagree, your opinion is credible and respectable. John Stockton is truly underrated and one of the greats
Nope. Not even close to Magic.
@@christopherbanuelos2147 Magic was 6’9 running up and down the court. Could you imagine if he played with Shaq in Orlando when Shaq was running the court. Unstoppable!
Jaylen Brown can definitely use his left hand now lol
I watched Stock a lot in the NBA. All the times I saw him play in pe4rson he was not in Utah. He was just as good in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco as a assist man, a ball mover and a shooter.
Another great video Jonny. I’m 46 and great up a huge basketball fan, and like you, I tried to be a knowledgeable fan about history and context. Pre RUclips and with the internet in its infancy I used to buy books about NBA history, learning all about George Mikan, Bill Russell, Wilt, etc.… and would discuss them with my friends on the mid 90s, and they thought I was some kind of basketball savant haha. Sadly, I no longer have any passion for the game and I chalk it up to the toxic ignorant foolish culture of the fans and the media. There is zero celebration or acknowledgment of the past. Players from just a generation ago are mocked and derided as plumbers and fireman. The discourse is void of any knowledge, nuance, subtly, or context. Any debate or discussion quickly devolves into name calling and any points I would make would be dismissed because I’m “old.” Sadly, I completely removed myself form something that I once loved; your channel is the only exception. Keep up the great work, us “old” people need a good intelligent basketball fix