At 12:30 when testing the 4th, the high note having a faster beat tells you that it's wide. Doesn't that only work under the assumption that the partial of the check note is lower than both notes of the 4th? If the partial of the check note were higher, then a higher high note would be closer to it, resulting in a slower, not faster beat. Am I missing something? I'm trying to reconcile this with your claim in the octaves video that the check note doesn't need to be tuned. Thank you for the amazing course!
@@kevinsung3866 Ha ha, I like your comment! True, if the check note was tuned as a NARROW major third from the note you already tuned then the beat comparison check would be opposite. But a narrow major third is so far out of tune that you're not usually going to find that on a piano unless your tuning new strings. If you do find that, your ear should pick up on it right away and you can easily tune your check note quickly to be a wide third. In any case, if the piano is that far out of tune these checks aren't going to help you a lot because you need to get the pitches much closer with a pitch raise or rough tuning first before fine tuning by ear.
I appreciate these videos, thank you. I’ve fallen into occasional work as a tuner without really intending to and I also recently did an action rebuild professionally, but I’m self taught and still have much to learn. I think your way of demonstrating and explaining will be very helpful.
A self taught professional action regulation sounds like something I would get myself into... And have, Haha! I hope it worked out well for you. I worked for a tech for many years through middle school and high school, and he taught me more than I've picked up on RUclips. That was over a decade ago, however, so now I'm trying to regain my bearings. I've tuned fairly regularly since then, but I have an obligation to fix my parents piano that I royally screwed up when I was in high school when I replaced all the key bed felts not realizing they were carefully regulated to a ten thousandth of an inch. I disregarded the punching underneath and replaced them all with an average of what was there thinking the factory workers in 1887 were just careless with how many rice papers they placed underneath. It changed the feel of the entire piano and really made it unplayable. Considering it was made in 1887, that piano holds its tune beautifully and has incredible tone and tamber. I've got to fix it. Especially since my dad's a great pianist and I now have a beautiful grand. It's not fair to him and his grandfather's piano. Regulation is hard, but I understand the mechanics and have the patience to get it right. If yours went well, I ask you to wish me to have as good of luck. If not, wish it anyway 🙂
I am an autodidactic piano-tuner, with great success and I often regulate and repair (grand)piano-actions. I tune pianos for more than 20 years and every day I learn new things about tuning. I studied to become a professional teacher. I know very much about theory, so my exam was best mark. I never had to know (and I don’t even need this today) how many half-steps a minor/major third or sixth is about. Who cares this? For me: The Basic is a Fifth (doesn’t matter how many half-steps it has). A semi-tone above (over the Fifth) is an augmented Fifth or a minor Sixth. A whole step above (over the Fifth) is a major sixth. Until now, I don’t know how many semi-tones a major-third, a fifth or a minor-sixth have… Not even my Piano-Teacher taught me this. I find this very confusing and - in my opinion - it destroys the view on the whole thing. It is like reading a word: If you read a word, you don’t read it letter by letter, isn’t it? That’s analogue to intervals: If you divide a major Sixth in x semi-steps, it is to me as if you read a word letter by letter. For me a more holistic view is more productive. I never learned intervals in semitones. It is not necessary. But I appreciate your videos about beatings. It is so important in different pianos, because I have old pianos, small pianos, grand-pianos… Everyone has it’s own inharmonicity, disregarding from the different manipulating the tuning-pins. Don’t focus on semi-tones. See the holistic.
Thank you for your comment. I don't think of intervals in terms of how many semitones apart they are either, but I didn't want to exclude anyone who has not yet had a background in theory. In your opinion, what's the best way to teach someone intervals quickly so that they can find them on the keyboard?
@@saltlakepianoserviceAs I told: The basic is the Fifth, or Fourth - no matter how many semitones it has. I do not know this. Just training, what a fifth is, how it sounds. Because you don’t describe how many semitones a Fifth or a Fourth has, isn’t it - or an octave? Use this (Pythagorean) “basics”: Fifth: From there on - you go a semitone up --> minor six - you go a whole tone up --> major six Fourth: From there on - you go a semitone down --> major third - you go a whole tone down --> minor third There is a pattern: A whole tone up or down from Forth or Fifth leads you to the major interval; a semitone up or down leads you to the minor interval. At least it is a training to hear, what is a minor/major third/sixth, like the multiplication table: 3 times five is not 5+5+5 - formal yes, but if you know, what “3 times five” is (15) because you learned it, you won’t calculate “5 plus 5 plus 5”, because you know it. So it is with the intervals. It’s my opinion and it is---for me---most economic.
But for the one who are not as theoretical as we are, it is okay to tell them how many semitones are in a Sixth. But: 3 plus 5 is not equal to 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1… Because it was equal to 4 plus 6, or 1 plus 7. This is my criticism - not to you, but to many people who think in that small-sized look, which - in my opinion - complicates the whole thing. So - in this description - a Fifth is 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 😵 Yes: Sometimes you must have a very, very close look to a leave to understand the tree; but don’t forget you watch a tree. Forgive me, I am not a mother-tongue speaker, but I hope, you get, what I mean. Kind regards
Thanks for your question! I have a Sanderson Accutuner (SAT IV) which has a built-in bandpass filter. I run a cord from the tuner to a digital interface which is connected to my computer directly and patched into my video editing software. I record a separate track with just the beats and synch it up to my video and other audio so you hear the beats amplified. I also have monitoring head phones plugged into the digital interface that I can wear and hear the beats in real time as I'm recording. It's pretty cool, and a great way to learn tuning I think.
Thanks @@saltlakepianoservice for the quick reply. I imagine I can get the same result by using a microphone into my audio interface and then using the filter in Logic. Fascinating setup!
This is very interesting for me as a performer and future owner of an acoustic piano. Thirds and sixths are of paramount importance in the tonal repertoire that most people associate with “music”. I’m starting to see that there is no way to satisfy all the concerns of tuning across all 12 notes of the chromatic scale. The 12th root of 2 works well with the music of Arnold Schoenberg, but not so well with Beethoven or Schumann. There will be beats. So it’s a question of managing them strategically. Beats aren’t necessarily bad. They can give character and expression to certain intervals or to certain keys like f minor or F# major. I think it’s fair to say that when God created the phenomenon of sound waves traveling through a gaseous medium, He didn’t have in mind an instrument with set tuning that could produce pure intervals equally across 12 semitones.
Thanks for another great video Hyrum! I always enjoy watching these
I’m taking notes for every video if someone wants them to study with for tuning.
Thank you! Great video!
Thank you for watching!
At 12:30 when testing the 4th, the high note having a faster beat tells you that it's wide. Doesn't that only work under the assumption that the partial of the check note is lower than both notes of the 4th? If the partial of the check note were higher, then a higher high note would be closer to it, resulting in a slower, not faster beat. Am I missing something? I'm trying to reconcile this with your claim in the octaves video that the check note doesn't need to be tuned.
Thank you for the amazing course!
@@kevinsung3866 Ha ha, I like your comment! True, if the check note was tuned as a NARROW major third from the note you already tuned then the beat comparison check would be opposite. But a narrow major third is so far out of tune that you're not usually going to find that on a piano unless your tuning new strings. If you do find that, your ear should pick up on it right away and you can easily tune your check note quickly to be a wide third. In any case, if the piano is that far out of tune these checks aren't going to help you a lot because you need to get the pitches much closer with a pitch raise or rough tuning first before fine tuning by ear.
@@saltlakepianoservice Got it, thank you!
I appreciate these videos, thank you. I’ve fallen into occasional work as a tuner without really intending to and I also recently did an action rebuild professionally, but I’m self taught and still have much to learn. I think your way of demonstrating and explaining will be very helpful.
A self taught professional action regulation sounds like something I would get myself into... And have, Haha! I hope it worked out well for you. I worked for a tech for many years through middle school and high school, and he taught me more than I've picked up on RUclips. That was over a decade ago, however, so now I'm trying to regain my bearings. I've tuned fairly regularly since then, but I have an obligation to fix my parents piano that I royally screwed up when I was in high school when I replaced all the key bed felts not realizing they were carefully regulated to a ten thousandth of an inch. I disregarded the punching underneath and replaced them all with an average of what was there thinking the factory workers in 1887 were just careless with how many rice papers they placed underneath. It changed the feel of the entire piano and really made it unplayable. Considering it was made in 1887, that piano holds its tune beautifully and has incredible tone and tamber. I've got to fix it. Especially since my dad's a great pianist and I now have a beautiful grand. It's not fair to him and his grandfather's piano. Regulation is hard, but I understand the mechanics and have the patience to get it right. If yours went well, I ask you to wish me to have as good of luck. If not, wish it anyway 🙂
I am an autodidactic piano-tuner, with great success and I often regulate and repair (grand)piano-actions. I tune pianos for more than 20 years and every day I learn new things about tuning.
I studied to become a professional teacher. I know very much about theory, so my exam was best mark.
I never had to know (and I don’t even need this today) how many half-steps a minor/major third or sixth is about. Who cares this?
For me: The Basic is a Fifth (doesn’t matter how many half-steps it has).
A semi-tone above (over the Fifth) is an augmented Fifth or a minor Sixth.
A whole step above (over the Fifth) is a major sixth.
Until now, I don’t know how many semi-tones a major-third, a fifth or a minor-sixth have… Not even my Piano-Teacher taught me this. I find this very confusing and - in my opinion - it destroys the view on the whole thing.
It is like reading a word: If you read a word, you don’t read it letter by letter, isn’t it?
That’s analogue to intervals: If you divide a major Sixth in x semi-steps, it is to me as if you read a word letter by letter. For me a more holistic view is more productive.
I never learned intervals in semitones. It is not necessary.
But I appreciate your videos about beatings. It is so important in different pianos, because I have old pianos, small pianos, grand-pianos… Everyone has it’s own inharmonicity, disregarding from the different manipulating the tuning-pins.
Don’t focus on semi-tones. See the holistic.
Thank you for your comment. I don't think of intervals in terms of how many semitones apart they are either, but I didn't want to exclude anyone who has not yet had a background in theory. In your opinion, what's the best way to teach someone intervals quickly so that they can find them on the keyboard?
@@saltlakepianoserviceAs I told: The basic is the Fifth, or Fourth - no matter how many semitones it has. I do not know this.
Just training, what a fifth is, how it sounds. Because you don’t describe how many semitones a Fifth or a Fourth has, isn’t it - or an octave?
Use this (Pythagorean) “basics”:
Fifth: From there on - you go a semitone up --> minor six
- you go a whole tone up --> major six
Fourth: From there on - you go a semitone down --> major third
- you go a whole tone down --> minor third
There is a pattern: A whole tone up or down from Forth or Fifth leads you to the major interval; a semitone up or down leads you to the minor interval.
At least it is a training to hear, what is a minor/major third/sixth, like the multiplication table:
3 times five is not 5+5+5 - formal yes, but if you know, what “3 times five” is (15) because you learned it, you won’t calculate “5 plus 5 plus 5”, because you know it. So it is with the intervals.
It’s my opinion and it is---for me---most economic.
But for the one who are not as theoretical as we are, it is okay to tell them how many semitones are in a Sixth.
But: 3 plus 5 is not equal to 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1…
Because it was equal to 4 plus 6, or 1 plus 7.
This is my criticism - not to you, but to many people who think in that small-sized look, which - in my opinion - complicates the whole thing.
So - in this description - a Fifth is 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 😵
Yes: Sometimes you must have a very, very close look to a leave to understand the tree; but don’t forget you watch a tree.
Forgive me, I am not a mother-tongue speaker, but I hope, you get, what I mean.
Kind regards
How did you setup the filter for the reference tone in this series? Super interesting!!
Thanks for your question! I have a Sanderson Accutuner (SAT IV) which has a built-in bandpass filter. I run a cord from the tuner to a digital interface which is connected to my computer directly and patched into my video editing software. I record a separate track with just the beats and synch it up to my video and other audio so you hear the beats amplified. I also have monitoring head phones plugged into the digital interface that I can wear and hear the beats in real time as I'm recording. It's pretty cool, and a great way to learn tuning I think.
Thanks @@saltlakepianoservice for the quick reply. I imagine I can get the same result by using a microphone into my audio interface and then using the filter in Logic. Fascinating setup!
This is very interesting for me as a performer and future owner of an acoustic piano. Thirds and sixths are of paramount importance in the tonal repertoire that most people associate with “music”. I’m starting to see that there is no way to satisfy all the concerns of tuning across all 12 notes of the chromatic scale. The 12th root of 2 works well with the music of Arnold Schoenberg, but not so well with Beethoven or Schumann. There will be beats. So it’s a question of managing them strategically. Beats aren’t necessarily bad. They can give character and expression to certain intervals or to certain keys like f minor or F# major. I think it’s fair to say that when God created the phenomenon of sound waves traveling through a gaseous medium, He didn’t have in mind an instrument with set tuning that could produce pure intervals equally across 12 semitones.