NO MORE KID BLACK BELTS - Kama Vlog
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2017
- Many martial arts academies give black belts to children, but Kama and Gracie Jiu Jitsu do not. Ryan explains why.
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Someone once said that the greatest disservice one can do a man is to give him the false impression that he can defend himself.
+Edmond Dantez, great saying. Thank you.
Yes so true
It’s even worse to do it to a child than it is a man or woman.
Bingo.
This is why I really like muay Thai and boxing over Taekwondo. I know Taekwondo is effective sure, but with boxing and muay Thai the only belts you get are either championship belts or a belting from your opponent!
Any BJJ would beat the piss out of a muy gay tai
@@transgenderedmuhammad8817 if they can get them to the ground sure but that's why you always have takedown defense.
Let's be real, it's more about the parents. They're the ones pushing for their kids to get belts every second week.
Exactly.
And they cut the checks
I feel like kids might lose motivation
a kid black belt is a horrible thing to do to them, lot o times it is just as bad to do to many adults. That is what happens when money is the most important thing. I had a brown belt come to my school and after only a couple classes told me I had ruined the many years of training he already had. He told me before he walked into my dojo he was sure his skills would have worked on the street. Two years later he finally developed some real abilities to truly defend himself. (not BJJ by the way)
As a Taekwon-Do ITF instructor, I agree 100%, and most of the instructors I talk to do too, but it's taboo to say it, I feel shame to see my style drowning in this attitude, a category that is not only meant to mean expertise and skill, but the maturity and self control to use it. Black belts for kids should be banned, they are a lie.
Taekwondo is not a martial art
@@transgenderedmuhammad8817 yes it is.
Bal Dev No it’s not. Go toe to toe with any trained white belt in bjj and you will get your ass pounded
@@transgenderedmuhammad8817 From the Oxford Dictionary to Wikipedia, it is by definition a martial art, so you are objectively incorrect.
A white belt and the word "trained" don't quite blend too well together.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu doesn't exactly especialize in teaching "pounding", it's more about ground game and grappling.
My MMA instructor trains children in Danzen Ryu Jijistu. In more then 30 years of teaching has one had one student achive the rank of jr. blackbelt at the age of 16. The kid was a prodigy ans was awared his blackbelt on his 18th birthday.
Had a TKD "black belt" who couldn't have been older than 16 come into our gym the other day for a free 1 week trial of BJJ/kickboxing classes and wanted to transfer their rank. Needless to say our coach denied the transfer request and set them back to white. Then fast forward about 15 minutes and that's when shit got funny. They stepped on to the mats to roll & spar with our 18yo white belt (smallest dude there, but really strong for his size, about 5'7 120lbs) and our TKD friend got dominated despite going full force while the white belt went about 10%. Couldn't help but giggle to myself and think "welp there goes your ego" Lol classic example of McDojos granting children these high ranks and giving them a sense of invincibility.
I don't understand he wanted to be declared a bjj black belt because he had a tkd black belt? that doesn't even make sense....did he offer to declare your people as masters of tkd?
Sounds like a child with a high-school diploma going to Harvard and asking for a degree of equivalence.
He wanted his tkd rank to transfer lol
His parents and tkd instructor messed him up. Shame. If he put in the time to get the belt in tkd he may have been ready to put in work if they didnt blow up his ego.
Or someone wanting a World Cup winners medal because they won a local badminton tournament
When i was 12, one day at the beach a kid that was playing with us told us that he was a black belt in Karate and started showing off moves. I told him he was too young to get one and he got cocky and challenged me. I agreed. I just proceeded to walk up his stance, move to the side to avoid his slow kick, and i just pushed him on the ground. When i helped him up, his eyes were full of doubt and he was embarassed.
Kid black belts shouldn't be a thing, it messes up the whole meaning of black belts, and is dangerous as it boosts kids ego with false sense of power.
Needless to say, i'm a MMA practitioner.
well we have 2blackblet one is a teen one is 10 years old i have sparring with both and day good
I started taekwondo at 24 and was in a room with 20 7-14 y/o's and it was the most embarrassing thing ever.
+Joshua Howard TKD today is geared for the elementary school kid. So much so, that I guess adult classes are non-existent? I'm sure there are some schools that have adult classes. Just need to find one; or just take jiu-jitsu!
Gotta agree with him on this one. I've been doing TKD since I was 11, and even then I was one of the older ones there. A lot of schools have adult classes. Go to those. Don't waste your time in the kids classes if you're really trying to learn
Good instructors have kids and adult classes for that very reason.
Omg same at 22. I went for 2 months, realized that if my 17yo overweight assistant teacher with no skills or athleticism could get a black belt that the place was BS. Moved and started going to an American styke Kickboxing gym and finally started getting real instruction
Similar thing happened to me about a year ago. I was taking kickboxing and the place had to move because the Publix was taking over their space. Everything was good until June (right after my 17th birthday) they were changing the schedule both due to summer and the move and the kickboxing class was now only going to be once a week (instead of twice) and was going to be on Fridays (a bit inaccessible for me) so they offered to let me join the taekwondo class, and I accepted….I walk in and I predated everyone in that class by AT LEAST 7 years! I can pass young, I can’t pass that young. I could see if the kids around me were around 11-13 or something along those lines, but I think the oldest kid was 9 or 10. It was embarrassing
Learning a striking art (boxing would be my preference) as a kid is pretty useful, because you learn distance management (assuming your kids spar). It also gives you experience to not lock up from being so scared, and it improves confidence. BJJ is also great, because it truly is kind of like a super power against someone reasonably close in size that doesn't have any training. Wrestling is also great when you're in junior high/high school. Do all three. Will you be a black belt? Nope. Will you be able to beat a man 100 lbs bigger than you? Pretty doubtful. How about another kid 20 lbs bigger than you? Yeah, probably.
I take full contact karate and it took me five years to get my brown belt , no kid should have a black belt, no matter what style you've taken, I think a kid with black belt is laughable. if you don't know how to properly protect yourself being a striker or on the ground you do not deserve a black belt,
My thinking is it boils down to mature thinking and acting through out life as well as training ethic. Ive seen kids come every day and train pay attention but dont have the maturity. They are not black belts. Some teens maybe but its few. I like how many bjj schools rank under 18 no black belt just differnt colors and striped colors. But when there are old enough or mature and size too the start adult ranking. Thoes then move up fast. Just my 2 cents. This is a good topic to talk about it keeps our schools healthy i think.
I’m almost 15, black belt in taekwondo. The school I train at you can get a black belt by 10, which is completely wrong. I probably wouldn’t be able to properly defend myself against a larger, older attacker, but I think I would be able to prevent serious injury from said attacker. Going on a bit of a tangent, if I was an instructor at the clubs that 95% of the Black belts at my school (there are multiple locations/clubs around the state) come from, I would not give them a black belt. The instructors at these clubs sadly care about the money, and the fact that they’re exercising these kids. Don’t get me wrong, these instructors are qualified, they are legitimate black belts that deserve their ranks. On the other hand, the club that I train at is a small one - there are 20 people at most in one class on any given day. There are a few white belts (there was a new wave of them at the start of the year), only one of them would I give a yellow belt to, and that particular guy is an adult. There are a few yellow belts that I probably wouldn’t’ve given yellow belt. This continues through the ranks, there are some black belts that I wouldn’t give black belt, but I would give them cho dan bo, because they’re proficient enough to be cho dan bo - not second degree black belt. Most of the black belts (I think there are 10 where I train) I would have them be either cho dan bo or a degree lower. When comparing this to the standards of the actually instructors at the other bigger clubs, their standards are a lot lower. Some so called black belts at the gradings would be blue belt by my standards. There are a few that deserve their black belt - most of them are second or third degree, and would probably agree with me on this.
If you understood all of that at 15, you’re way ahead of most, in my view. Hope your martial art journey is going well (four years later).
18 is a teen, why cant a 16 yr old earn a blackbelt if he can defend that belt? I agree about the 10 yr olds etc. Not sure why purple is highest for under 18....why not brown, then award black when they turn 18? There are grown women blackbelts who are too small to defend themselves against grown men...why are they promoted if its about defending themselves?
All good questions. 18yr olds can earn the black belt, if they went from green to purple at age 16.
@@KamaJiuJitsu , I am aware of that and I get not allowing 10 yr old blackbelts. I came up through a Karate system that required blackbelts to be 16, which seemed reasonable.
@@cuzz63 Same with me, I'm 17 and I'm going for my karate black belt test in a little less than 2 weeks. For the record, if you are getting your diploma through the WKF, Shodan has a minimum age requirement of 15.
I think we are misunderstanding what a black belt means. Clack belt is that you know enough of a art so you can start learning the hearth of the art. And martial arts are not necessary for defending ourself but be able to connect body and mind in a real life you only have a change if you miss it that sit lo g time ago before I started my training a friend save us from a guy when the time was right he kid that guy in the face and he went down my friend was 15
It,s a joke men, kids getting blackbelts at young age, at a karate club i trian at as grading every 6 months and to me that is good. I hate clubs who do belt gradeing every three months that to me is miss leading loads.
Its realy the exception but there are bjj practicioners under 18 which are easily on blackbelt level. Watch or train with young Nicky Ryan. He is 16 but fought at adcc worlds.
Yep.
He did say if you grew up in it youll be different.
Nicky has basically been training bjj like a fulltime job for years, and he trains under possibly the best bjj coach in the world in John Danaher. he's the 0.1%
I was taught that black belts represent technical mastery of the curriculum (including the ability to teach the curriculum, which not everyone thinks about) and actual real life fighting competence. I dont think age restrictions are necessary for awarding belts, but i do think that if youre not tapping brown and black belt adults then youre not a jiujitsu black belt.
What I really like about Kama Vlog is the facts he talks about core Jiu Jitsu topics not only techniques and training but Jiu Jitsu Real talk....keep up the good work professor !
thank you. we'll try to keep up the momentum. also, if you have something you'd like us to discuss, please feel free to share that idea with us!
100% agree but I know an 8 year old at my gym who is related to the instructor and is a 2nd degree black belt in tae Kwon do and his sister is a 3rd degree
Are they good?
I agree with this since the Black belt comes with some great responsibilities, hell even Purple and Brown belts come with greater responsibilities.
What responsibilities? To be the cities police?
@@Bradley9967 found yourself in the wrong video did you? Black belts have a responsibility of teaching and continuing their respective martial art.
Its not even about fightingor self defense. A black belt is to show the highest of skill level. This is not realistic of a child.
In my gym you can't even be a blue belt unless you're 16yrs old
That's pretty standard in Gracie Jiu-jitsu
I like the idea of jr black belt for people who are younger because martial arts is taught differently to people who are younger, so when they get a jr black belt they will start learning the adult curriculum and the jr black belt could be a grey belt
Great video. 100% agree!
How can how can you really tell if you defend yourself? I do a style that includes a mix of taekwondo and karate focused on self defense. By no means do we have children running around in black belts, it typically takes an ADUKT 5-6 years of good attendance to earn that rank and even then all it means is you know the basics. I see the value in a lot of the things we learn and like everything else there are things that have more value than others. We are fortunate that we have a teacher who has an open mind and will have police officers and other martial art instructors fill in the gaps that we have with a striking oriented art, but at the end of the day if you do get attacked how do you know you will be able to successfully defend yourself? Or is the goal to feel that you would put up a fight and through pressure testing know that your body will likely react with something?
Another informative video. You answered one question I was pondering about what level "adult" belt a young person could be able to transition to once he/she has went through the youth program and begins training with adults.
I have another question if you don't mind answering ( either comment here or make another video if you can).
When should a student in the youth program make the transition into training with adults? I would assume it would be based on the length of time they have been in the program, age, ability, maturity and size.
You asked and you shall see! ;)
thank you for the great question. thought i'd answer your question with a video of its own. here you go! ruclips.net/video/9D9d09gxHE8/видео.html
When I was 9 I started Judo and trained with kids from around my age to 13 it helped me out a lot because I was short so it mostly helped me on my trips and throw's where I'm originally from there are people I grew up with who box but mostly wrestle so he's correct about grapplers at 15 I learned Jeet Kune Do and that made me more focused and my Judo skills came in handy helping me out in a fight. #Oss
Im not going to stand at a bedside in the emergency room explaining to a parent why her kid black belt got choked unconscious in the playground with his tournament trophy laying next to him for show and tell day.
I am a 3rd dan in Taekwondo (trained for 22 years), I kickboxed for about 8 and now i have been training BBJ for 5 years in our MMA gym but Iv never graded. I have have a Chinese family train with me of years the oldest brother has trained for 9 years he started at 4 and is now 13. He is a red belt black stripe his dad keeps asking about his BB grading as he has not graded in about 2 years. I have a kickboxer help run my classes and he is really pleased with my students stand up and he is not a bad little wrestler as well. He knows all his basics, adult patterns and the whole Taekwondo syllabus to pass the TKD grading with more MMA stuff I have added. Do I let him grade and give him a child black belt in Taekwondo as a one off? My students are a reflection of me as a teacher and I would never normally do it but do you think I should give it to him as he has been training 3 times a week giving me his full concentration and effort every lesson.
Plus he is really good all round.
@@Greyman010 I can understand the pressure you are under, especially because of all the kid BBs that TKD has created. Personally, as a 3rd Dan Kang Duk Won and Tracy's Kenpo who also grapples who started his training when Bruce Lee was still alive, I would not promote someone that young to Shodan. Also, as a doctor, when I was doing psychiatry in med school, they never let kids younger than 14 participate in group therapy because it was felt that their ability for abstract thinking was too undeveloped at that young age. The real question is do we want the BB to actually mean something anymore or not.
I earned my black belt in jiu-jitsu at about 11 after working my ass off about 5 times a week and actually learned everything any off the adults learned i dont understand these people saying kids arent allowed to have a black belt im 15 know and am still very confident in my skills despite not practing in 4 years because the dojo i trained out of closed down
Maybe you piss em off more... but at least you have that lol
1:44 on one knee yelling mantras,"today is a good day" lol
This is very wise and sensible.
Taekwondo = Take My Dow.....I say this all the time....no way a kid can be a black belt.
We used to call it "Take one's dough" all the time.
Well I don’t know taekwondo in the usa but in Mexico modu Kuan you can not become blank belt
nice video, but watch out fo background music volume
will do. thank you!
im dyslexic and i thought it said no more black kids
Nah, there is nothing wrong with a kid having a black belt. It is a clear indication that in their system a black belt represents something different than it does in jiu jitsu and there is nothing wrong with that. jiu jitsu deosnt define the meaning of the ranking system of other arts. It only defines the meaning of jiu jitsu's ranking system.
That's incorrect though. You're being rational and expecting reality to match what *should* be. The fact is, most of these McDojos that are handing out black belts to kids are telling the kids and the parents that they are now a master of their art. Therefore, the black belt would mean the same thing in any other art as it does in JJ, except that no JJ black belt will tell you he's a master.
In fact, most legitimate black belts in any art will tell you they aren't masters. If you've ever trained any martial art, then you should know the true meaning of holding a black belt. It means that you are competent in your chosen art. That's pretty much universal. However, the perception of "black belt" in western culture is synonymous with "bad ass". That means that any time you hand a kid a black belt, they're going to immediately think that they are a "bad ass". That's fine, except it gives them a *false* sense of security, and may in fact, get them into a lot of trouble when reality comes crashing down and they try to defend themselves in a situation of their own making, only to find out that their "training" is mostly useless.
Giving that kind of false confidence to kids is a bad idea. Period.
@@lenonkitchens7727 you are incorrect in the entirety of what you have stated. No school i have ever been to says a black belt represents mastery of the art. At most schoole a black belt simply represents that the student has learned a basic body of knowledge. Black belt=bad ass is an attitude that is absent from every martial arts school i have ever trained at except for American karate and Gracie jiu jitsu. To any given school or system a black belt represents what that school or system says it represents and nothing more. There is no universal standard for what a black belt represents. However, there are plenty of misconceptions about what it represents, such as those you have presented in your argument.
@@joeallen2354 So, everything I said is wrong, and then you repeat what I said? Yes, that's exactly what a black belt means, as I previously stated.
Your anecdotal evidence does not trump fact. You realize you're talking about training at good schools, right? The problem is McDojos (by definition *not* good schools) handing black belts out to kids, and as stated in the video, they're often told that black belt means mastery, and that they're capable of defending themselves against any and all comers. At the very least, they're not properly disabused of that perception. This is not debatable. It's fact. Maybe you don't have any schools like that around you, but they make up the majority of TKD schools these days. I can name 3 within 20 miles of my house.
Also, you're arguing a straw man. Nobody said there is a universal standard for what black belt represents. I said it's almost universal among good schools and instructors, that a black belt means you're competent in your chosen art, which you agreed with. There is, however, a universal perception of what black belt means to untrained people. When that perception is reinforced by some money grubbing TKD instructor handing black belts out like candy, that's a problem.
Thus, kids should not have black belts, in the traditional sense. Period. This doesn't even begin to touch on the fact that in any system worth its salt, the black belt is an indicator of not only physical prowess, but also mental, emotional, and sometimes philosophical maturity.
If you want to reward a kid with something like a black belt, even a junior black belt, there's nothing wrong with that. If you make it clear that your training is only for sport/competition and not self defense and you give a kid a black belt, that's fine too. But that's often not happening. These schools open their doors, give out black belts to kids as young as 6 and 8, in under 2 years in most cases. Basically, the parents are buying a black belt for their kids. It's glorified babysitting, though it is great exercise for the kids.
TL;DR: Everything I said the first time was right, and you're still viewing the situation through rose colored glasses and personal experience.
I like this debate you both are having here. i think we should do a video revisiting this topic with your (both good and valid) arguments.
@@lenonkitchens7727 Yeah i know this thread is a month old but im bored and decided to revisit it. I hear what you are saying and dont dispute some of your points. Your main thrust seems primarily focused on McDojos and perhaps this is where we are miscommunicating. The concept of McDojos is completely absent from my thinking. Furthermore, i feel that discarding the concept of McDojos is best. McDojos do not teach martial arts. McDojos defraud unsuspecting consumers by claiming to teach martial arts and then failing to actually teach martial arts. The reason i feel it is best to discard them from the conversation is because they are irrelevant to the discussion of when a person or at what age a person should get a black belt. A person could train for 10 years at a McDojo, receive a black belt, and still be unable to fight. Or they could train for a month and be unable to fight. Either way a black belt from the McDojos of the world are meaningless and should only enter into the conversation if we are discussing fraud in the martial arts.
I think what he’s going for is a kid black belt might be good at what they do but it doesn’t make them invincible
I busted out laughing in the first paragraph.
Our kids black belt is green. That's the highest you can get before you turn 16. Then It's blue.
I've heard it's still pretty hard to get to green and that most people don't make it in time.
I don't get the age thing. Ever they have the skill or they don't.
If there's a 5 year old, child genius that has learnt all the black belt skills, then why not give that child a black belt?
The only difference is the size of child.
Are you saying that an additional requirement is being able to defend yourself?
That depends. Is the black belt in a “martial” art or a dance class?
@@KamaJiuJitsu If a man has a black belt but then goes into a coma and unable to defend himself, do you take away his black belt?
Whatever you EARN, no one can “take,” whether conscious or unconscious! Haha!
One of the reasons you see so many kid black belts in taekwondo schools is because tawkwondo has become largely a sport for very young children. Go to almost taekwondo school, and you'll find it filled with near-toddlers. It is not a serious martial art. It is a babysitting service.
Great video. As a former HS varsity wrestler, I cannot agree with wrestling is a good means of self defense though. Wrestling didn't help any of the times I had to defend myself as a kid. You don't learn ways to finish a fight in HS folk wrestling...now we are in agreement that Jui-jitsu definitely could prepare a kid to defend them self...and I think catch wrestling is a whole different story as well.
+robbelliii, so I guess you're not this wrestler? ruclips.net/video/fvLh8FPvGDo/видео.html
Kama Jiu-Jitsu we are brothers in BJJ, so I don't mean to argue but I don't think this is a good example that represents statistically. The black dude seemed like he was just fooling around. Besides lack of finishing a fight in wrestling, folk wrestling trains you to go to base (belly) for safety in order not to be pinned. This was a hard habit to break when I started BJJ. Ossssss
+robbelliii, that's true about folk style. Both my kids are doing that style in school. But their jiu-jitsu training can sometimes mess with their wrestling. If a wrestler kid is ignorant of finishes, he can always take down and slam, get up, and repeat.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu bjj and probably more GJJ really teaches managing the distance, which against a violent striker is really important I think. Wrestling doesn't really teach this. Combining wrestling with BJJ is really powerful...good you have your kids involved in both. I'm trying to get my high school aged daughter to become interested in BJJ. She trained with me for the first time a month ago. I train with Yamasaki BJJ, so I think we have similar lineage. Take care!
if you throw someone on the ground, the fight will likely end....the younger you are however the better you bounce back I suppose
Awesome video
thank you!
Great video!
thank you, sir!
he do not know what is saying i take teakwond in we have black blet one is 10 in one is a teen i have sparring with both them
Don’t forget GSP. Very well rounded. Jon Jones.
i have two sparring parnt on is teen one is 12 and thay are black blet
Back in jr high a kid got a TKD black belt in 9 months haha
lol wtf. I'll have fries and a large coke with that belt pls.
i take teakwondo fore 4 years a and we 2 black blet one teen and one is 10 years
I don't believe in kids having black belt I see that as a major red flag of a mcdojo gym.
No kid under 18 should get a black belt I see 10yr olds with black belt and Sensei giving it to them its just wrong. I train since 1972 I quit in 1980 was 18 fought kumite tournaments in Four season in Las Vegas And Internationals in Los Angeles and still dont have my black belt and im over 60now
If there's a child that has all the black belt skills then why not. I agree this is an unlikely situation.
But thats false hope to give kids he can do what a Grown up adult can do. Like defend himself against any situation.But we can't leave your kid at home by himself other wise a parent who does will go to prison for child endangerment So why give a kid false hope he can defend him or herself by themselves.
Touché
you are worng im 30 years old i take tekwondo i have srarring with a 10 years old black blet and he is very good
Are you sure you’re 30? Your spelling and grammar seems to suggest otherwise. - Rusty
@@KamaJiuJitsu yes im
@@KamaJiuJitsu ihave two sparring partner one is teen and one is 12 thay are black blet and thay are very good
I don't agree if you been training since a baby and your good enough why not???
Black belt is more than physical prowess, it's 90% mental maturity and understanding. Black belt is the beginning.....only adults truly understand this.
@@zshakur This ^. Exactly this.
in 8years can be a black blet if the skill are good if show your teacher that you are redy
like a judoka
This all makes sense until you run into a 16 year old Nick Diaz or Nate Dian and he whoops your grown ass. lol, exceptions to every rule, I'm just saying...especially if you think of other sports for example, Labron, Koby, and Kevin Garnett, straight out of highschool, I think one could say they were "Black belts" in Basketball at 17/18. Mike Tyson Heavy weight champion of the world at 19.... we could go on and on.
Your only talking “exceptions.”
Of course, one can always make exceptions for exceptional individuals.
But thanks for pointing it out so I don’t forget next time, Eddie.
@@KamaJiuJitsu all respect Prof. Love your videos...Thank you for all the info, I always learn something.
@@KamaJiuJitsu lol
ill put my crazymuthafukka do against any karate guy eva i bite kick punch head but scratch whatever lolz
I disagree. If a kid puts in the hard work, and is able to demonstrate a level of skill equal or better than an adult. Then they deserve a black belt.
That still isnt all that the black belt rank represents. Its also how they represent themselves and the school and community. Im a smaller guy and there a power house 16 year old in our bjj club who can tap me out even though i have 4 years at 3 to 4 days a week training. Hes powerful and explosive he knows all the moves and most positions. But he cant be presise and patient. So i get him in strategy every time.
Our school has no black belt for kids. Its adult only. There a certain wisdom that you should have to earn a black belt.
What you shouldn’t be a black belt when your a kid they work as hard as adult just watch as long as there over 10 there working as hard your just blind to the fact of what a kid can do
Very few kids put in the work and have the competence. Most are not mature enough to be a master. Time in isnt enough i think by your post you get that. Most people forget they did not master something they started in 3 or 4 years. It takes understanding to. Now there are prodigies and fast learners who have a unusual level of maturity. As well as great instructors that seem to eek thoes things out of diligent students.
Even young teens in pro racing realise they have much more to learn when race experienced and mature drivers. Its a good topic to discuss gets ya thinking. Have a good day.