Why Technics' New SU-GX70 Network Audio Amplifier Doesn't Float Our Boat!
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- On the face of it, this new streaming amplifier promises much. Based on Technics' own digital technology, it's a lower power version of the SU-G700 Mk2 that Mike and David reviewed a year or so ago. It has a vast array of facilities and lots of power.
Yet it just doesn't hit the spot, as far as the guys are concerned. It has a refined, precise sound but lacks any real emotion. They reckon that many non-specialist hi-fi buyers will like it a lot, but unlike its bigger brother it sadly doesn't work for Mike and David.
Each episode of Hi-Fi Riff features the guys' unedited, unexpurgated views about all manner of weird and wonderful hi-fi designs. Business executive Mike has a wealth of knowledge from previous hi-fi retail experience, and David has written about hi-fi for thirty years. Now Editor-in-Chief of StereoNET, he's picked up a few things along the way.
So relax and enjoy some one-take hi-fi riffing - and please leave your comments below. And don’t forget to hit the Subscribe button, this one goes up to eleven!
The eighties-tastic title tune is called ‘UFO/Mike’s Jumper’, and used with the express permission of our old pal and rights holder Simon Lythe.
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I bought the Technics last week after several years with a SUGDEN A21a Class A amp and the CHORD Poly/Mojo2 Streamer/DAC combo. I've done no proper blind testing but ran both setups side by side for a week with my Tannoy Stirling SE speakers. The sound quality is on a similar level, the Technics providing better bass and slightly better dynamics. It's not night and day, though.
A German Hi-Fi magazine, STEREO, had put the Technics on the same level as the exposure 2510 in terms of sound quality. I had thought about the exposure for quite some time but went for the Technics due to the way better feature set.
You criticized the user interface that actually won me over. There's the HIFI Rose RS520, Naim Uniti Atom and streamers like the Eversolo DMP-A6, all with huge displays. I don't need it, my iPad has an even larger display for cover art. I don't use the remote control or the touchscreen of the streamer/amp either while I'm comfortably seated. And I don't care about VU-meters :) I actually like the more minimalistic look of the Technics.
I changed to the Technics as I don't have too much time to sit down and listen to music. Then I found myself fiddling with Audirvana on a Mac connecting to the CHORD Poly via UPnP or realizing that one of the two CHORD's batteries had run out of juice (not to mention the SUGDEN running ridiculously hot). I was happy with the sound but found usability sorely lacking.The Technics isn't perfect in that area but a vast improvement. I don't even have to switch it on. I choose a DSD file from my NAS via the Technics app and it starts playing.
I believe you didn't mention the Space Tune room correction and the LAPC speaker calibration. Did you use that? I found the sound significantly improved compared to what I heard out-of-the-box.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, with regard to the phono stage, it's comparable to my Graham Slee Special Edition with Enigma power supply. So, not too bad for an integrated.
Hi, interesting comments, thanks. We tried every permutation on the amp, with Pure Sound making the biggest improvement. I can see that, with its better load driving ability, the Technics might seem more impressive than the Sugden, which is a super-niche amp that's seriously lacking in power and grunt. I disagree about the overall sound though, which is less beguiling and engaging than various price rivals I've heard, certainly through my system(s) - although this is of course a matter of taste. I take on board your comments about the user interface, interesting that you should think that was a plus - and maybe you're right! Thanks again for your feedback and I'm happy you like your new amp.
That sound you describe is neutrality, something that a lot of audiophiles don't like. The reality is that what most manufacturers claim, and what most audiophiles perceive is neutral is anything but - noisy, distorted designs with skewed frequency response designed to please the ear. It seems that most high-end hi-fi is not only badly designed but is far from true neutrality and instead has a sonic flavour that many listeners prefer, whether it's the fatiguing brightness that impresses in the demo room or the veiling warmth that blurs detail and masks imperfection in the name of "musicality". A properly designed piece of hi-fi does neither, adding nothing from the source and taking nothing away, reproducing the source material with a flat frequency response across the audioband (and these days beyond) with minimal noise and distortion. It's not something most hi-fi products, aside from those built with measurements rather than supposed golden ears in mind, can achieve.
Interesting points - and I don't disagree with most of them. But it's not the frequency domain that 'felt' wrong with this amp - it was perfectly smooth - but rather the time domain. It just didn't seem to gel in terms of rhythms and wasn't particularly good on micro-dynamics either, by which I mean the tiny rhythmic inflections that make music sound hypnotic. The SU-GX70 didn't add much that was wrong, but certainly took away some things that were right - and should have been revealed, but weren't. Still, it's perfectly decent and as we say, many will be perfectly happy with it. It just wasn't our cup of tea, so to speak.
if neutrality means i want to switch off my system then i dont want it . i am a self confessed fuddy duddy who enjoys gramaphone records though , but for me ,hifi is just the thing i use to enjoy music and every class D amp ive tried left me uninspired to enjoy my records. as for noisy , i am of the finding that if you need test equipement to detect noise , its not really worth worrying about. one of my fav tricks is putting a record on for friends and turning the volume up and watching them get a fright when the music starts . thats quiet enough for me .😅😘
A lack of emotional connection is often related to inadequate power supplies and overly aggressive manipulation or circuit complexity such as heavy use of negative feedback, in order to meet some desired measured specifications. The issues typically show at the leading and trailing edges such as altered dynamic contrasts, both large scale & subtle,
as well as creating timing errors and poor note shaping - the very qualities of musical performance where expression resides
@@kenlyon8285 Absolutely. When I was at Hi-Fi World and we were measuring everything that came into the magazine, we found a strong correlation between poor sound and too much negative feedback. It gets the distortion down but sucks the life out of the music.
@@MrVinylista Scrambles the phase
I bought this unit and with all the technology engaged, I was amazed at its performance. And Space Tune made all the difference (which the G700 doesn’t have). But I don’t think you mentioned it.
And it does help if you like the neutrality that comes with digital amplifiers.
I'm really glad you like it... We thought it was a bit of a cracker!
Sadly, didn't get to live with it for long enough.
Mike
@@Hi-FiRiff unfortunately, not many audiophile channels say whether they switched on room correction. One famous UK website does the same. But it’s the primary reason why I excluded many amps, like the ones you mentioned, because they don’t have this feature. We live in an age where SUV EVs are faster than Lamborghinis, and I think room correction threatens to do the same in hifi. And I know in my room, the curves produced showed how boomy my room really is…
Are you sure Technics products aren't aimed directly at audiophiles that have come full circle to simply enjoying the music again? Those of us who found more useful things to do than splitting hairs over extremely minor (if any) differences our brains can barely delineate in an immediate a+b comparison, let alone have any length of memory for.
Bit like B&O, just great music reproduction with none of the faff
Thats me thank god technics are back ❤
Thèse two guys look like toads spitting over a product they dont understand..
I bet, the exact same product would sale 10k, they would rave about its quality..
Stupid non sense
Like you riffs but sound quality could improve. It's a bit funny how often audiophile's RUclips videos has poor or very poor sound quality. But recording is the other side of the hifi coin. Just moving the sofa a meter away from the wall will do great on limiting reflection. Cheers.
I think the Toyota Corolla comparison is apposite. If it's a Technics it really ought to be a bit more Lexus.
Certainly the bigger ones are more Lexus. This is more of a mass market thing. Perfectly fine, just not for us - and I suspect many Riff viewers.
I find it quite an alluring product
That's right, those VU meters on the HiFi Rose or EverSolo DMP-A6, what more could you possibly want in life?! Speaking for myself, I'm now complete.
its the musicality of the VU meters!
I do tend to think of these devices as current day receivers.
Made in Malaysia…the factory is about 1 hour drive from Kuala Lumpur
Almost all budget Japanese stuff has been made outside Japan since the 1990s.
Indeed as far back as the 1970s, Sony's entry-level electronics were made in Korea. By the '90s most cheaper Jap electronics were made in China, i.e. Rotel.
Interestingly, Malaysia was the only country that Sony trusted to make its (very high precision, thus hard-to-make) MiniDisc machines, aside from Japan of course.
another great review 😉 keep up the good work
A blind test conducted under strict scientific standards would put an end to all the superfluous language.
Did you use lapc and room correction system?
I also wonder this. No offense, but all I hear is a bunch of rambling with these two.
Audio heresy? With all the technology engaged my GX 70 produces amazing results. Maybe it was too hard for them to set it all up?
To be fair, you were fair. Good job!
Fair enough!
When discussing usability and interface, I find it endearingly sweet that neither of you realized it was designed to be operated completely through the app (which is incredible and so simple)
We are heathens through and through! Mike
Another entertaining riff, good fair cooking amp by the sounds of things. Cheer chaps
i think youve made a boo boo gentlemen 😂
Grand Class? Might be ok for a grand. Makes me wonder how much people who aren't interested in hi-fi are prepared to pay for hi-fi.
Nice ep. chaps. Who do you see as the buyers for this type of product?
Guys, I'm time poor, but love your show and I do have time whilst driving my car. Any chance you could publish to Spotify and/or TuneIn radio and other podcast services?
Good point. We'll investigate.
It doesn't have British sound you mean lol
Which has the best sound quality with a digital connection? SU-G700M2 or SU-GX70 ?
Your description of the SU-GX70 sounds like a well made dish with a the taste elements but lacking umami (body, emotions, enhancer).
I found it to be quite the opposite. Once I engaged room correction (Space Tune), it made all the difference. But why don’t these audiophile shows speak of using room correction? Is it akin to audio heresy? And the fact that the GX70’s bigger brothers don’t have it, is quite embarrassing really.
A Grand Class of Chaps on the Sofa 😂👍
Flattery will get you everywhere.
There are some interesting musings here, fellas. I ended up purchasing the SU-GX70 because I felt it offered excellent value for money. Great build quality, and while the sound will always be somewhat subjective, I feel it is fit for my purposes. I have paired it with some DENON SC-CX101 speakers, which match nicely. It would have also been good if you offered some thoughts on how it compares to some other similar models, such as the Denon PMA-900HNE. Overall, I think the Technics works best in smaller rooms that don't require a beefy amp.
Good, considered angle on this. We think this is a very decent product, it's just that it wasn't for us personally.
Did you not consider the Cambridge Audio Evo 75 at around the same price too?
@@MohsinWadee I agree, it looks like a great all-in-one. The issue is twofold. In Japan, where I live, Cambridge Audio doesn't have much of a following, and secondly, the SU-GX70 is an absolute bargain readily available for 200,000 yen, or about 1,100 pounds!
David, given your current love affair with the Kerr Acoustics, how dontheu compare to the PMCs they're based on? Another great riff btw, please keep them coming.
I think it's a little unfair to say Kerr Acoustics speakers are 'based on' PMCs. They share similar (but not necessarily the same) drivers, and are transmission lines - but there have been many TLs over the years and the Volt drivers are not exclusive to PMC.
It's like saying that practically every speaker from the 1970s that used KEF drivers and an infinite baffle cabinet was 'based on' the BBC designs. Really? Hmmm...
Anyway, the K200s are excellent, and from the same 'sonic school' as ATC and PMC, but have a more refined treble thanks to the ribbon tweeter. Fast, physical, clean, crisp, punchy but a tad more delicate perhaps. I look forward to trying a big PMC at home so I can make direct A-B comparisons. Meanwhile the Kerr stuff is well worth a listen if you like the big, 'pro' sound.
@MrVinylista Thanks David 👍
Wondering how it would compare with something from Audiolab, not that I’ve heard any Audiolab apart from owning the original 8000A many years back?
We did the 9000A recently and the Technics is a fair way behind it on sound quality, features and ergonomics.
I was thinking that as I also had an 8000A. It is a long time since I bought any new hifi so it sounds expensive to me.
What happened to Nuforce/Nuprime? Remembering them from hi-fiworld......
Can i ask what would you think it would be like with a say Rotel power amp ?
Does it have a Quartz locked volume pot?? 😂
My Yamaha NR-803d has been very good and looks like a 70´s receiver.
Nice review as usual 👍
It might be that you don't like the sound because you used to British type of sound .
To my opinion it is like food. You accuire taste an flavor of food of your place and country you are living in , so are your ears and brain adjusted to the type of sound you hear in your place you grow in.
Thanks. In my case, it's quite the reverse. My reference system is 100% Japanese, aside from my DAC, and has been for many decades. In Mike's case that would have been possible, had he not liked my system - but he does. So I respectfully think you're wrong about this. We were impressed by its SU-G700M2 bigger brother, and we like lots of Japanese stuff - but in this case it just didn't charm us in the way that some other price rivals have.
I'm not clear what you refer to as a "British type of sound" actually represents-
What characteristics are shared between , say, an Linn LP12 ,a Townshend Rock, Michelle Orbe, Avid Acutus,Roksan Xerxes20+ or Rega P10?
How about Sugden , Audiolab , Croft, DNM or Naim amplification?
Harbeth, ATC, Quad,KEF PMC,Royd, B&W,Neat & Chartwell loudspeakers?
The only thing I can think of is that most (not all) can carry a tune. Might that be it?😉
Thing is, I don't want a reviewer to just talk about the specifications. I want an opinion even if I disagree, and inasmuch as it is possible, a description of the sound - which is why I watch HiFi Riff.
We all like different things so simply flat response/ perfect numbers cannot possibly suit everybody. Some people obviously do like the sound of 'perfect spec' kit and that is fine, but I wish they would stop telling the rest of us that our taste is 'wrong'!! It's like the office worker who operates best with a clear desk- always lecturing those who like a cluttered desk - never the other way around! I have drifted a bit here, not saying this is you kobush18!
@@TonyCottrell-iv2qv no body mention their taste is wrong or bring some specifications, i didn't ask for this it's only in your head, i didn't criticized them in any way but usually taste for things are geographic matter (usually) as i mentioned food for instance,you took it too far from i ment and put words and intentions that i didn't have in mind. I respect them very much and reviews Will be always subjective .
@@kobush18 That's why I said I had drifted, and I was musing rather than responding to your point. Sorry if you thought I was having a go at you.
Im audiophile and it fits for my second smaller room with Polk audio R 600 reserve , i can drive them to 100 db perfect with out lugging out , my main is a prima luna 300 hybrid , TAD ce1 tx 's , hi fi rose streamer , denafrips dac , empire troubador turntable
How would it do with R700 ?
Given you have mentioned Hifi Rose...you must surely now (who's Shirley?) explore the Eversolo DMP-A6?
+1
If the Eversolo is really as good as the reviews I've read say it is, the other streamer / DAC / digital hub makers are well and truly taking the trousers off us.
@@robertleitch2016 - I bought one to replace my Audiostore Vortexbox streamer - it is great value, but not brilliant. I use its digital out to my external DAC. The screen is a boon and it looks great...alas, the control app is a little buggy and the sound a tad 'lively' with admittedly excellent imaging, detail and soundstage width. The hype is a little too much really...it's good, very good (at £760 or so)...but not brilliant.
It’s a common misconception that there’s no point in connecting analog sources into amplifiers that digitise signals via an ADC circuit but reality is that modern ADCs are very transparent and sound signature of the analogue inputs are generally maintained. This even extends to turntables. Don’t think that because an amplifier operates in the digital domain that it will somehow homogenise the sound of all inputs as this is demonstrably not the case.
Yup, but that doesn't mean that converting a digital source to analogue externally, then digitising it again only to re-convert it to analog at some point makes any sense. That is what our hosts were talking about. Unless, the first dac is so very coloured in the first place and you want to somehow convey that colour in the final product. Which still does not make any sense but in a different way...
@@razisn Absolutely. Why do D to A then A to D back, when you can just plug in a digital out from the CD transport (or whatever) to the amp, which then does the D to A later?
i get that disingauged feeling from class D amps .
Not exactly a class D amp, this is a so called digital amp where the digital signal is amplified and then converted to analogue in the output stage by high power mosfets.
@@razisn Correct - this sets the latest Technics amps apart from the Class D field.
I agree. Some of them are actually surprisingly good, but things are still a bit hit and miss, and Class AB is a much safer bet providing it's done properly.
I'd compare this one against the Nad C700, or any other of the seemingly hundreds of similarly priced amps that NAD does these days.
Lots of power? Isn’t it 40w per channel into 8ohms?
....and 80W into 4 ohms. It has plenty for its intended application, although perhaps 'lots' was stretching the point.
I know it’s a modest rating but it has “Load Adaptive Phase Calibration” and it’s just another reason why I bought this amp. The difference is quite telling.
This unit is around the same price as the Cambridge Audio Evo 75 - like the Technics also a Class D amp but with more power. Did any SU-GX70 buyers here not consider/listen to the Evo too? I'm not implying one's better than the other (the Technics has a built-in phono stage though), but just curious.
The Technics is not class D which is a pwm, it’s full digital
The CA equipment has no built in room correction. And Space Tune made all the difference for me.
Also, the fact that CA use Hypex NCores instead of their own design takes away from the EVO being a “CA amp”. (I had a CA 740 which I trade-in).
Why the new technics…….or technics’……..where HiFi meets grammar lessons
These guys know their stuff. I purchased this Technics to drive my Neat Iota speakers. It sounded so weak! No drive at all just very „lager shandy“. Sent it back and got the Creek 4040a - now that is superb! Trying a Denon PMA 1700 at the moment and that too is outstanding.
4 hero ❤
Maybe this is accurate but why so
condescending? anytime soon youll be outpaced, if not already.
Looks more like a streamer................Ill pass.
Well obviously the engineers at Technics just aren't very clever. They haven't yet figured out that the SU-GX70 is supposed to do this, and sound like this, and make your Dire Straits sound better or should that be your Rush ? It's the way you tell 'em guys.
People like you always bash Technics.I only buy Technics/Panasonic products.no regrets.
We have reviewed three other technics products, all of which we really like.
David and I are certainly not Technics bashers, we just chat about what we think of individual products on their merits, and this particular amp did not quite do it for us (it has stiff competition).
David has quite a stash of gorgeous Technics products from different eras.
Mike
There’s no such thing as an audiophile middle aged man. If you’re old you suffer hearing decay. 😅. You can appreciate the hifi jewelry better and make educated assessments of higher value audio equipment based on experience but you cannot perceive the sounds as you did in your 20s and 30s
There's a considerable degree of high frequency loss as you head past 40 years, but still you can hear cymbals into your 60s. What doesn't change is arguably much more important, which is your time domain hearing - you can still hear the rhythms of the music until the day you die, and much of the dynamic contrasts. So it's crazy to suggest that older people can't enjoy hi-fi and/or music Indeed, in some ways, they may be more receptive to it.
Pardon?@@MrVinylista
typical audio-reviewer nonsense... when you start spouting terms like Musical you have lost all credibility. Do double blind testing and you will be amazed at how your perceptions change, but then again, maybe you would be out of a job.
I often wonder what systems the people who say this, have - and/or their brain chemistry. It's so achingly obvious what 'musicality' is, that it's almost impossible to explain. Kind of like explaining the concept of 'delicious', or 'happy'. Anyway, each to their own. And for accuracy's sake, we didn't get paid for making this video, so it's not a job.
That's a rather disingenuous comment especially given David's substantial experience in the Hifi industry.
Musicality is up to the recording artist(s) and the producer, NOT to the SYSTEM it is played back on. The best systems give us an authentic reproduction of the recorded musicality. Instead of spouting nonsense, think about what words actually mean. as for my system, I have 11 of them. My primary home theater is all Dynaudio, my primary listening system is Spendor, my secondary system is B&W. Amplification is all over the place but mostly solid state. I lean towards USA and Japanese made separates. I won't bore you with any other details.@@MrVinylista
@@themaskedsingercucucachu8225 We are talking at crossed purposes, it seems. My definition is that the best systems reproduce the recording in all its glory - and thus allow its musicality to flood out. Those that don't fetter the recording in any number of ways, either in the frequency domain (i.e tonality) or the time domain (pace, rhythm - 'musicality'), or dynamically (also 'musicality').
There is also the question of the recording artists'' musical ability, which I take to be your own personal interpretation of the term 'musicality'? That's not what I mean by it - and is a separate issue. One would generally assume that any musician who is good enough to have been recorded professionally, has a good deal of musical dexterity - 'musicality' as you define it.
ok, thanks.@@MrVinylista